Metagame Chimera 1v1

From some testing i find traunt skill swap good but not broken, its is easily countered by fake out. And you have to survive the first hit/ not get taunted.
 
antsdownmypants said:
From some testing i find traunt skill swap good but not broken, its is easily countered by fake out. And you have to survive the first hit/ not get taunted.
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It can also be shut down by bringing an Arceus and giving one of your Pokemon Multitype. Bringing an Arceus is no hardship either, as it has an incredible movepool and great overall base stats.
 
ChrystalFalchion said:
It can also be shut down by bringing an Arceus and giving one of your Pokemon Multitype. Bringing an Arceus is no hardship either, as it has an incredible movepool and great overall base stats.
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I agree however it isnt always that easy in practice. the most common traunter is slaking, and skill swap is prevelant on a bunch of common mons (spinda, deoxy,sulveon). slaking can double up as an offensive threat. so its quite hard to predict when the enemy is going to use traunt + skill swap or another set. and putting multitype in abiltiy can be a deadweight if you make the call wrong. As opposed to skill swap+normalise+ghost type. which is alot of more obvious on team preview due to the fact it restricts the enemies team building.
 
Anaconja said:
​

Q: What about in-battle forms that don't require items, like Mega Rayquaza or Disguise Mimikyu?
A: No additional form changes should take place in-battle, so if these interactions continue to happen, please post replays in the thread and I'll make sure they're ironed out.
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Not only is Disguise Mimikyu allowed, but it's buggy. Breaking the disguise seems to reset the stats to Mimikyu stats.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7chimera-872319414
 
CJer said:
ok so if mega stones are banned, why aren't the blue and red orbs
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I also accidentally discovered that you can mega evolve rayqauza. it was more of hinderance to be honest as i couldn't use a z move until i mega evolved and i lost the galewings ability after i mega.
1st Rayquaza , 2nd flynium z and Brave bird in moveset
 
So if someone wouldn't mind helping me out with this. Is it possible to have a Kyogre set up Rain, Enter Primal and have a different ability, say Water bubble and be able to abuse said rain. If so how would I go about it?
 
Hiii Chimera players!

I built myself a team a couple days ago and its done really well for me, laddered up to 1500 on one account in a couple hours and now working on getting up my second account.
I wanna drop it here half because I feel like its really fun and does some unique stuff I havent really seen elsewhere in the meta, and half because I think its still missing a little bit to reach its full potential (especially EV optimization cuz i dont really know how to do that very well) and could use some suggestions. Anyways, heres the team,
The Golden Boys (and Blaziken)
riolu.gif
heliolisk.gif
deoxys-attack.gif
groudon.gif
arceus.gif
blaziken.gif

164581
Under this theres a general description of the team and a list of individual set descriptions. Theres also the importable, tho I think its not really important to look at in Chimera since its basically meaningless compared to the description of the team and its purpose and the set list.
The starting point for this team was my favorite strategy from Balanced Hackmons, Prankster Electrify. The idea is you bring a ground type with Pranskter and then spam click Electrify so none of your opponents moves can hit you. From there, you can either Toxic them to wear them down or in some cases, especially with choice users, just PP stall them.
A couple things I knew that I would struggle with, though, were faster priority, Pranskter-immune Dark Types, and Toxic-immune Steel and Poison types. I found a solution to a lot of this in a 1v1 strategy Id heard about (that I think is actually banned in 1v1 so...), Z-Detect. It let me protect first turn from Fake Outs and then get an evasion boost to increase my odds of dealing with E-Speed or whatever else my opponent had, and the Fightinium Z gave me a nuke on two of the problematic types, Steel and Fighting.
What was really cool is I could more or less compress both strategies into just 3 Pokemon in Riolu, Groudon, and Heliolisk, giving me an additional 3 slots to build mostly offensive checks to sets that could beat my two primary strategies. I settled on Arceus for its bulk and access to Judgement, which could beat Normalize Entrainment, Deoxys-A for its raw speed and power, and Blaziken for its Ability and its type compatibility with Fightinium Z and Groudons Drought.
Thats skipping a lot of trial and error I went through with Pokemon like Excadrill, Sableye, and Pheromosa, but its a general idea of the spirit of the team and how I got to what I have now. Also, five of the six Pokemon (plus blazikens lower legs) are golden which is super fun, even tho you sadly cant see shininess in team preview and only one comes out per game so I never get a chance to to dazzle my opponents with their golden beauty.
164597
Obviously this isnt every combo the team can make, but this is the ones Ive found most useful. Some of them I use a lot more often than others, some ive only ever used once as an incredibly niche counter to a single strategy, but ill try and give a rundown of that in the set descriptions.
  1. This set, which was the starting idea for the team, is one of the ones I use most. It only needs to get a Toxic off once, from safely behind a sub or when you know you wont die to what your opponent is clicking this turn, and the opponent is basically dead. If that doesnt work, either because of their typing or because theyre clicking powerful moves every turn, Substitute/Electrify alone is enough PP to stall out many offensive pokemon, and many stallers can be safely stalled out from behind a sub. Watch out for Taunt though.
  2. This set deals with the Dark weakness of set 1. After one Detect, you should outspeed most defensive Pokemon and then be able to play the same way without worrying about a Prankster Immunity.
  3. There might be other uses, but this set very specifically deals with most variants of defensive Levitate Alolan Muk.
  4. This set lets you block one hit, potentially a Fake Out or partially a Z-Move while boosting your evasion. From there, you can try and use Substitute to increase your odds of getting a miss from the opponent or just attack. You can also bypass the evasion to nuke something with Z-HJK.
  5. Basically set 4 but with a Normal base typing instead of Psychic.
  6. This is one of the sets I use most. Z-Detect provides the same benefits as in set 4, while also giving you a turn for Speed Boost to activate, making it more likely you can get off a Substitute or attack before your opponent. STAB Earth Power hits hard off Deoxys-As Special Attack Stat and Bullet Seed beats F.E.A.R. strategies.
  7. A mixed set that can drop a Drought-Boosted STAB Blaze Kick or STAB Z-HJK on the Physical side and carries Special coverage.
  8. A very strong Physical attacker with access to STAB Z-HJK and Blaze Kick. It does have two Special moves but theyre not good for much.
  9. Basically set 8 but with Shadow Claw over Blaze Lick (also it has Speed Boost).
  10. A Special Attacker with STAB Z-Focus Blast and Electric, Ice, and Normal coverage.
  11. Basically set 10, but with Fire coverage over Ice coverage (also it has Speed Boost).
  12. Deoxys-A stats with a Choice Scarf outruns basically everything, save for Deoxys-S and tying with other Scarf Deoxys-A. This set carries BoltBeam plus coverage, and ends up being my bring often because it can basically hit the entire opposing team super effectively.
  13. A mixed Choice Scarf set with the speed tier perks of set 12 and Dry Skin to protect its Ground typing from common Water moves.
  14. A similar set to 13, but a different typing makes Dry Skin less useful and lets it be switched for Drought, which powers up Overheat.
  15. A fast Choice Band user with Fighting STAB and Sun-boosted Fire STAB that tears through a lot, plus coverage. Thi set ends up being useful very often.
  16. A similar set to 15, but it trades Drought for Dry Skin to help the matchup against Water. Also, it has slightly different coverage moves.
  17. Basically set 16, but with a Ghost move instead of Fire move and typing.
  18. Basically set 15, but it trades Drought and its Speed for bulk and power.
  19. Basically set 18, but with a Ghost move instead of Fire move and typing.
  20. A weird looking set in that its a Special attacker based on Blazikens stats, but its super useful for beating Ghost-types with Normalize Skill Swap/Entrainment. It can use Prankster Taunt to stop their strategy and kill them with Shadow Ball, or if that doesnt work out just use Electric Judgement, which isnt affected by Normalize.
  21. This sets mostly for teams that appear to be using Water Bubble. Its typing lures Water-type moves while it fires off a powerful Electric Judgement on the Water-types. Outside of that use, it still has BoltBeam coverage on the Special side and Dual STAB on the Physical side. Watch out for Teravolt Water moves though.
  22. Sort of a middle ground of a few other sets, a non-Choice-locked strong, quick Special Attacker with STAB Electric Judgement forming half of its BoltBeam coverage and letting it deal with some Ghost Normalize sets. It has two physical moves but they dont have much real use.
  23. A pretty niche set that has been helpful against Flying types with priority, specifically Gale Wings users, Aerilate FakeSpeed, and Pixilate FakeSpeed Togekiss.
Rat (Riolu) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 84 HP / 84 Atk / 84 Def / 84 SpA / 84 SpD / 84 Spe
Serious Nature
- Blaze Kick
- High Jump Kick
- Detect
- Substitute

Thor (Heliolisk) @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Toxic
- Electrify
- Wild Charge
- Rock Slide

Star (Deoxys-Attack) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Taunt
- Substitute
- Recover

Sunny (Groudon) @ Zap Plate
Ability: Drought
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 220 HP / 252 Atk / 36 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Thunder
- Focus Blast
- Thunder Punch
- Iron Tail

Buttered (Arceus) @ Choice Band
Ability: Multitype
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Earth Power
- Bullet Seed
- Judgment
- Ice Beam

Hey! Hes Red! (Blaziken) @ Leftovers
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Shadow Claw
- Hyper Beam
- Overheat
Thats my team, definitely try it out if you want. Like I said, some advice on EVs would be great, especially on Arceus and Deoxys-A. Really, I think Prankster Electrify and Z-Detect are cool strategies with a lot of potential and would love to see it if some other people made some even better teams with them. Anyways, thanks for reading!
 
I've bit using Endeavor a little bit, and I think there is a bug in the stats.
I used a level 1 Froakie on the stat slot, and level 100 mons everywhere else. And it looks like I'm getting the HP stat of a level 1 Froakie (11 HP) but the speed and attack stats of a level 100 Froakie (232 Atk - 241 speed). Meaning that my E-speed deals "decent" damages, often being able to KO mons at 3% or even 10% sometimes.


Tøp Tier said:
Hiii Chimera players!

I built myself a team a couple days ago and its done really well for me, laddered up to 1500 on one account in a couple hours and now working on getting up my second account.
I wanna drop it here half because I feel like its really fun and does some unique stuff I havent really seen elsewhere in the meta, and half because I think its still missing a little bit to reach its full potential (especially EV optimization cuz i dont really know how to do that very well) and could use some suggestions. Anyways, heres the team,
The Golden Boys (and Blaziken)
riolu.gif
heliolisk.gif
deoxys-attack.gif
groudon.gif
arceus.gif
blaziken.gif

View attachment 164581
Under this theres a general description of the team and a list of individual set descriptions. Theres also the importable, tho I think its not really important to look at in Chimera since its basically meaningless compared to the description of the team and its purpose and the set list.
The starting point for this team was my favorite strategy from Balanced Hackmons, Prankster Electrify. The idea is you bring a ground type with Pranskter and then spam click Electrify so none of your opponents moves can hit you. From there, you can either Toxic them to wear them down or in some cases, especially with choice users, just PP stall them.
A couple things I knew that I would struggle with, though, were faster priority, Pranskter-immune Dark Types, and Toxic-immune Steel and Poison types. I found a solution to a lot of this in a 1v1 strategy Id heard about (that I think is actually banned in 1v1 so...), Z-Detect. It let me protect first turn from Fake Outs and then get an evasion boost to increase my odds of dealing with E-Speed or whatever else my opponent had, and the Fightinium Z gave me a nuke on two of the problematic types, Steel and Fighting.
What was really cool is I could more or less compress both strategies into just 3 Pokemon in Riolu, Groudon, and Heliolisk, giving me an additional 3 slots to build mostly offensive checks to sets that could beat my two primary strategies. I settled on Arceus for its bulk and access to Judgement, which could beat Normalize Entrainment, Deoxys-A for its raw speed and power, and Blaziken for its Ability and its type compatibility with Fightinium Z and Groudons Drought.
Thats skipping a lot of trial and error I went through with Pokemon like Excadrill, Sableye, and Pheromosa, but its a general idea of the spirit of the team and how I got to what I have now. Also, five of the six Pokemon (plus blazikens lower legs) are golden which is super fun, even tho you sadly cant see shininess in team preview and only one comes out per game so I never get a chance to to dazzle my opponents with their golden beauty.
Obviously this isnt every combo the team can make, but this is the ones Ive found most useful. Some of them I use a lot more often than others, some ive only ever used once as an incredibly niche counter to a single strategy, but ill try and give a rundown of that in the set descriptions.
  1. This set, which was the starting idea for the team, is one of the ones I use most. It only needs to get a Toxic off once, from safely behind a sub or when you know you wont die to what your opponent is clicking this turn, and the opponent is basically dead. If that doesnt work, either because of their typing or because theyre clicking powerful moves every turn, Substitute/Electrify alone is enough PP to stall out many offensive pokemon, and many stallers can be safely stalled out from behind a sub. Watch out for Taunt though.
  2. This set deals with the Dark weakness of set 1. After one Detect, you should outspeed most defensive Pokemon and then be able to play the same way without worrying about a Prankster Immunity.
  3. There might be other uses, but this set very specifically deals with most variants of defensive Levitate Alolan Muk.
  4. This set lets you block one hit, potentially a Fake Out or partially a Z-Move while boosting your evasion. From there, you can try and use Substitute to increase your odds of getting a miss from the opponent or just attack. You can also bypass the evasion to nuke something with Z-HJK.
  5. Basically set 4 but with a Normal base typing instead of Psychic.
  6. This is one of the sets I use most. Z-Detect provides the same benefits as in set 4, while also giving you a turn for Speed Boost to activate, making it more likely you can get off a Substitute or attack before your opponent. STAB Earth Power hits hard off Deoxys-As Special Attack Stat and Bullet Seed beats F.E.A.R. strategies.
  7. A mixed set that can drop a Drought-Boosted STAB Blaze Kick or STAB Z-HJK on the Physical side and carries Special coverage.
  8. A very strong Physical attacker with access to STAB Z-HJK and Blaze Kick. It does have two Special moves but theyre not good for much.
  9. Basically set 8 but with Shadow Claw over Blaze Lick (also it has Speed Boost).
  10. A Special Attacker with STAB Z-Focus Blast and Electric, Ice, and Normal coverage.
  11. Basically set 10, but with Fire coverage over Ice coverage (also it has Speed Boost).
  12. Deoxys-A stats with a Choice Scarf outruns basically everything, save for Deoxys-S and tying with other Scarf Deoxys-A. This set carries BoltBeam plus coverage, and ends up being my bring often because it can basically hit the entire opposing team super effectively.
  13. A mixed Choice Scarf set with the speed tier perks of set 12 and Dry Skin to protect its Ground typing from common Water moves.
  14. A similar set to 13, but a different typing makes Dry Skin less useful and lets it be switched for Drought, which powers up Overheat.
  15. A fast Choice Band user with Fighting STAB and Sun-boosted Fire STAB that tears through a lot, plus coverage. Thi set ends up being useful very often.
  16. A similar set to 15, but it trades Drought for Dry Skin to help the matchup against Water. Also, it has slightly different coverage moves.
  17. Basically set 16, but with a Ghost move instead of Fire move and typing.
  18. Basically set 15, but it trades Drought and its Speed for bulk and power.
  19. Basically set 18, but with a Ghost move instead of Fire move and typing.
  20. A weird looking set in that its a Special attacker based on Blazikens stats, but its super useful for beating Ghost-types with Normalize Skill Swap/Entrainment. It can use Prankster Taunt to stop their strategy and kill them with Shadow Ball, or if that doesnt work out just use Electric Judgement, which isnt affected by Normalize.
  21. This sets mostly for teams that appear to be using Water Bubble. Its typing lures Water-type moves while it fires off a powerful Electric Judgement on the Water-types. Outside of that use, it still has BoltBeam coverage on the Special side and Dual STAB on the Physical side. Watch out for Teravolt Water moves though.
  22. Sort of a middle ground of a few other sets, a non-Choice-locked strong, quick Special Attacker with STAB Electric Judgement forming half of its BoltBeam coverage and letting it deal with some Ghost Normalize sets. It has two physical moves but they dont have much real use.
  23. A pretty niche set that has been helpful against Flying types with priority, specifically Gale Wings users, Aerilate FakeSpeed, and Pixilate FakeSpeed Togekiss.
Rat (Riolu) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 84 HP / 84 Atk / 84 Def / 84 SpA / 84 SpD / 84 Spe
Serious Nature
- Blaze Kick
- High Jump Kick
- Detect
- Substitute

Thor (Heliolisk) @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Toxic
- Electrify
- Wild Charge
- Rock Slide

Star (Deoxys-Attack) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Taunt
- Substitute
- Recover

Sunny (Groudon) @ Zap Plate
Ability: Drought
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 220 HP / 252 Atk / 36 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Thunder
- Focus Blast
- Thunder Punch
- Iron Tail

Buttered (Arceus) @ Choice Band
Ability: Multitype
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Earth Power
- Bullet Seed
- Judgment
- Ice Beam

Hey! Hes Red! (Blaziken) @ Leftovers
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Shadow Claw
- Hyper Beam
- Overheat
Thats my team, definitely try it out if you want. Like I said, some advice on EVs would be great, especially on Arceus and Deoxys-A. Really, I think Prankster Electrify and Z-Detect are cool strategies with a lot of potential and would love to see it if some other people made some even better teams with them. Anyways, thanks for reading!
Click to expand...

Ah. I've been beaten by this strategy a lot. Maybe one of the very few losses where I was not sure that I could have beaten this set with one of my options. But now that I see your whole set, I see what I should have done :-P
 
Hello Chimera!
I want to introduce to you: PU Destroys Chimera.
This team uses only PU pokemons and it works WONDERFULLY.


I made a video on the team if anyone is interested in learning how the team works, but here it is!

The First Chimera (Mawile) @ Rockium Z
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Iron Head
- Ice Punch
- Pain Split
- Foul Play

Bouffalant @ Steelium Z
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Toxic
- Cotton Guard
- Megahorn
- Earthquake

Shuckle The Destroyer (Shuckle) @ Steelium Z
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off
- Encore

Terragigas (Regigigas) @ Steelium Z
Ability: Slow Start
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Superpower
- Earthquake
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off

Persian-Alola @ Icium Z
Ability: Fur Coat
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Iron Tail
- Play Rough
- Fake Out
- Frustration

Crabominable @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Iron Head
- Close Combat
- Ice Hammer
 
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First, props for coming up with such a fun and creative meta. Although there are some definitely not fun (and good) strategies being spammed on the ladder (like Normalize Skill Swap) they can be beaten with some foresight and overall it's really interesting not only to test out your own strategies but also to view what everyone else has come up with. I have a few teams I'd like to share to showcase certain strategies I've found effective right now. (Feel free to put them in the archive if you'd like!)

Double Contrary
643MS.png
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386AMS.png
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Reshiram @ Psychium Z
Ability: Turboblaze
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Blue Flare
- Roost
- Will-O-Wisp

Arceus @ Life Orb
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Overheat
- Judgment
- Iron Head

Malamar @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Flamethrower
- Calm Mind
- Superpower
- Topsy-Turvy

Deoxys-Attack @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Cosmic Power
- Night Shade
- Psycho Boost
- Dark Pulse

Rayquaza @ Firium Z
Ability: Air Lock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Draco Meteor
- V-create
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake

Spinda @ Zap Plate
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch / Protect
- Superpower
- Skill Swap

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For this team, I built around two Contrary users, rather than just one. Although this definitely comes with some drawbacks, it also opens up a lot of very interesting possibilities to explore. What prompted me to originally do this was wanting to use Malamar's Topsy-Turvy against opposing Contrary users, while still being able to abuse Contrary itself. For my second Contrary user, Spinda may seem a bit of an odd choice considering that the other options, Serperior and Shuckle (and Lurantis), seem more viable, at least from a competitive perspective. What really drew me to Spinda was access to Skill Swap, as well as Fake Out, which allows you more safe games against Normalize and access to FakeSpeed, respectively. The rest of the team is fairly standard. (1) and (2) are my go-to options, although I usually find myself going with (2) just because of how good V-create is at gaining defensive and offensive momentum, so the high attack provided by Deoxys-A isn't really necessary. Either way, both are still really good, and you can also interchange Spinda for Malamar if Topsy-Turvy isn't necessary (or Skill Swap is). Both (3) and (4) can give better type matchups depending on the opposing team, as V-create into Z-Psycho Boost (or Z-Blue Flare) is a surprisingly good option against teams that are more suited against standard Dragon / Fire coverage. (5) is a different option that doesn't abuse Contrary but instead another good mechanic, FakeSpeed, which I will usually use against opposing Deo-A or Deo-S build that lack a Ghost-type. (6) is admittedly my least picked one, but is designed to hit super-effectively all type combinations that resist Dragon / Fire (Judgement for Waters and Iron Head for Diancie). It's an interesting idea on paper, at least. (7) is an idea stolen from the Uselesscrab Contrary team, that can beat offensive threats that are slow and preferably physical, as well as gimmicky Sturdy + Endeavor teams. (8) is just for Normalize teams.

Shell Smash
383MS.png
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Groudon @ Waterium Z
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Stone Edge
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt

Bruxish @ Firium Z
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Waterfall
- Psychic Fangs
- Aerial Ace

Carracosta @ Choice Band
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 108 HP / 252 Atk / 148 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Hydro Pump
- Stone Edge
- Aqua Jet

Deoxys-Attack @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fire Punch
- Extreme Speed
- Substitute
- Psychic

Minior @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Shields Down
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shell Smash
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Double-Edge

Entei @ Groundium Z
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Will-O-Wisp
- Sacred Fire
- Extreme Speed

164705

Looking at the sprites, the team seems questionable: "Carracosta?" I can hear you asking. The team seemed a little underwhelming to me when I had finished building it but it actually has turned up a surprising bit of success, and is probably my favorite team that I have built so far. The team is built around two very strong and scary sweepers: Sturdy Smash and Dazzling Smash. These two can spell trouble for certain teams when used together: for example, FakeSpeed teams would love to take advantage of Sturdy Smash but fall flat when faced with Dazzling Smash. I chose Carracosta as a Sturdy user for two reasons: Shell Smash and Special Water STAB for potential Bruxish sets. Entei is kind of a strange pick which I used before I realized Primal Groudon was illegal; however, Sacred Fire and Extreme Speed are both very good for the Sturdy Smash set so I kept it, and still have found good success. (1) and (2) are the defaults and are pretty self-explanatory. (1) is great against teams that rely on one powerful hit, such as Boomburst teams, while (2) is mostly used for FakeSpeed which is the biggest (and most common) threat to (1). Because of the powerful Z-moves both (1) and (2) possess, using Shell Smash is sometimes not necessary; however, it should be used against bulkier threats. One thing to note is that Extreme Speed allow (1) to perform very well against opposing Sturdy users, as long as they are not Ghost-type Sturdy + Endeavor. (3) is an option over (1) against teams that are particularly Psychic-weak. (4) and (5) are a little strange due to having to compromise with the rest of the team's wants; they are more effective against teams that could potentially have Fur Coat, however, and the compromise is generally not too bad, although (4) is pretty reliant on Shell Smash due to Minior's comparatively poor base 100 Special Attack. (6) is for Normalize. (7), (8), (9), and (10) are all various wallbreakers. (9)'s use of Carracosta's stats might be a little eyebrow-raising to some people, but it can work pretty well against either very bulky teams or physical attackers that Entei can resist or be hit neutrally by. (11) is fairly effective against very Deoxys-A heavy teams, and can also potentially take on other Scarf users because of Groudon's good bulk.

One thing I would like to talk about is Normalize. These teams have been infesting the ladder and, while not necessarily hard to deal with using the right team, it is a strategy that constrains teambuilding pretty hard. For those who don't know, the strategy basically entails having a Ghost-type, Delcatty, a fast or bulky mon, and a Skill Swap / Entrainment user and then SSing turn 1 and stalling the rest of the game. You are either forced to pick a mon with an ability that can't be Skill Swapped, like Arceus or Minior, try to outspeed and OHKO from there, or beat in PP stall. While Arceus (and to lesser extent, pokemon like Minior, Mimikyu, and Aegislash) can be used to success, and is a staple on certain archetypes, having to pick one of those mons or resorting to the other two strategies isn't necessarily healthy for the metagame. So, I was wondering: do others think it should be banned? Why or why not?
 
I don't know. I feel like, there are a lot of strategies you have to prepare for, putting a lot of pressure on teambuilding. For me normalize is one among a lot of them. I find electrify pretty hard to face, too.
But you have so many options (6! = 720) that nothing seems impossible to deal with. And packing an Arceus, an Aegislash or something to outspeed and OKHO shouldn't s be a huge sacrifice for your team.

Doesn't seem really ban-worthy to me, but I wouldn't mind if that thing was gone...
 
I really dont think normalize deserves a ban, ppl seem to hugely overexagerate how niche counterplay is to it. I wanna point out what it means to have a counter to this strat tho, and try n show that if u dont already have a solid counter to it, odds are ur gonna get smashed by a lot of and mayb the majority of serious teams.
So first theres sorta the niche weird strats that ppl seem to first think of to beat this strat (me included). Judgement and revelation dance r kind of ways to get around it, but being forced to run either oricorio or arceus + a plate. Plus the normalize players have started to figure out they can knock off ur plate.
Thats just one way to counter them tho. The next is to play the skill abuse game w them, bring ur own ghost/role play/skill swap user n try n beat them at their own game. They can usually outplay u if ur not running a p dedicated set specifically against them tho, and obvs it would b dumb to argue "this strats not broken because it can b countered by a variant of itself".
The third, most consistent way to beat it tho, and imo the reason its not broken, is straight standard play. "Outspeed it and kill it or cripple it before it can set up a wincon" or "stall it out" are the two best counterplays to this strat, and unsuprisingly, are kinda just the two standard ways to play 1v1. When u think about ab the variants normalize can be, its basically either "fast mon that can guarantee a win in one move" or "super bulky mon designed so most attacks will be innefective at killing it after it gets a turn of setup" which is, again, like every 1v1 set. Lets look at those 2 variants tho to see if either is broken enough to deserve a ban, because if neither is, id say u cant argue they both r together. 50%s or Rock Paper Scissor games of set choice define Chimera (and again, 1v1 in general), and as long as every individual set is reasonably counterable, no combo of it and another non-broken set can be broken.
Set 1: Fast-
Fast Ghost Normalize tends to inherit stats from Deoxys-S and try to get Normalize on the opponent before they can hit it. Like I said tho, a fast mon trying to secure a win turn 1 (usually just by killing with a strong hit) is like, super common. Counterplay is usually either to out-outspeed and secure the win first, or to be slower but survive/be unaffected by its move. What youve gotta realize is that if you can't outspeed and OHKO a Pokemon with Deoxys-S' defenses, whos base typing you already know, anything inheriting Speed above Base 105 and a Choice Scarf, and possibly even slower, is most likely going to smash you. In fact, those can be slightly tougher to beat if they carry sturdy, but this set cant because it needs normalize. Between all the strong priority and fast hard hitters (or not so hard hitters, its still got Deoxys-S defenses), I think itd be hard to find a standard team that cant already pull that off. Plus, if for some reason u cant to that, theres still Prankster Taunt on non-Sableye variants, while Sableye variants are weak to Toxic. So again, if u dont have a fast attacker, a quick Taunt, or a staller (preferably that doesn't lose immediately to anything thats quicker and has substitute), ull struggle against fast ghost normalize, but ull also probably struggle against like, every team.
Set 2: Bulky-
This is basically the same story. If u dont have consistent ways to beat pokemon u cant OHKO, ur not gonna have a fun time. Endeavor E-Speed, Pressure stallers, and Toxic stallers are just ab as viable as this set. U can Taunt it without needing Pranskter this time because bulky pokemon are slow, u can get up a Sub to protect from most of what itll try to do to you, and you can still status it since thats unaffected by Normalize. This sets not harder to beat than a good stall set, except stall sets usually come on dedicated stall teams or alongside various offensive options, whereas this set comes at best beside a few other mediocre strategies.

The last issue I can see is "what if my opponent has Both of these sets" or "I ran substitute as counterplay but my opponent had spectral thief" or "i ran taunt but my opponent had a mental herb" or they had faster taunt or were immune to my only status or any number of other things but like. A water bubble team can beat ur dry skin counterplay with teravolt. A team u need fakespeed to beat can have a lele. All the sets are on there own beatable, and just browsing through the team vault at the top of the thread, most teams have viable counterplay to most if not all strategies. And as for them running both, I wasnt saying at bare mininum u should be able to beat fast ho OR stall to have a viable team, i was saying both.
I think the reason normalize ghosts appear kinda broken is how effortless they are. They can achieve decent ladder results with little effort and dont really ever force their players to think hard about what set to bring, but their upper potential and ability to be consistenly strong at high levels isnt ban worthy.
I know that was way wordy but im really liking this meta and dont wanna see it get ban happy and start cutting down on strats that aren't that unhealthy to the meta, ultimately doing harm instead of helping #ripBH #freeIllusion. That said, Z-Detect is mayyybe something to keep an eye on, it doesnt seem too bad now but if it gets better an RNG dependent strategy being dominant in the meta doesnt seem healthy.
Tøp Tier said:
Hiii Chimera players!

I built myself a team a couple days ago and its done really well for me, laddered up to 1500 on one account in a couple hours and now working on getting up my second account.
I wanna drop it here half because I feel like its really fun and does some unique stuff I havent really seen elsewhere in the meta, and half because I think its still missing a little bit to reach its full potential (especially EV optimization cuz i dont really know how to do that very well) and could use some suggestions. Anyways, heres the team,
The Golden Boys (and Blaziken)
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View attachment 164581
Under this theres a general description of the team and a list of individual set descriptions. Theres also the importable, tho I think its not really important to look at in Chimera since its basically meaningless compared to the description of the team and its purpose and the set list.
The starting point for this team was my favorite strategy from Balanced Hackmons, Prankster Electrify. The idea is you bring a ground type with Pranskter and then spam click Electrify so none of your opponents moves can hit you. From there, you can either Toxic them to wear them down or in some cases, especially with choice users, just PP stall them.
A couple things I knew that I would struggle with, though, were faster priority, Pranskter-immune Dark Types, and Toxic-immune Steel and Poison types. I found a solution to a lot of this in a 1v1 strategy Id heard about (that I think is actually banned in 1v1 so...), Z-Detect. It let me protect first turn from Fake Outs and then get an evasion boost to increase my odds of dealing with E-Speed or whatever else my opponent had, and the Fightinium Z gave me a nuke on two of the problematic types, Steel and Fighting.
What was really cool is I could more or less compress both strategies into just 3 Pokemon in Riolu, Groudon, and Heliolisk, giving me an additional 3 slots to build mostly offensive checks to sets that could beat my two primary strategies. I settled on Arceus for its bulk and access to Judgement, which could beat Normalize Entrainment, Deoxys-A for its raw speed and power, and Blaziken for its Ability and its type compatibility with Fightinium Z and Groudons Drought.
Thats skipping a lot of trial and error I went through with Pokemon like Excadrill, Sableye, and Pheromosa, but its a general idea of the spirit of the team and how I got to what I have now. Also, five of the six Pokemon (plus blazikens lower legs) are golden which is super fun, even tho you sadly cant see shininess in team preview and only one comes out per game so I never get a chance to to dazzle my opponents with their golden beauty.
Obviously this isnt every combo the team can make, but this is the ones Ive found most useful. Some of them I use a lot more often than others, some ive only ever used once as an incredibly niche counter to a single strategy, but ill try and give a rundown of that in the set descriptions.
  1. This set, which was the starting idea for the team, is one of the ones I use most. It only needs to get a Toxic off once, from safely behind a sub or when you know you wont die to what your opponent is clicking this turn, and the opponent is basically dead. If that doesnt work, either because of their typing or because theyre clicking powerful moves every turn, Substitute/Electrify alone is enough PP to stall out many offensive pokemon, and many stallers can be safely stalled out from behind a sub. Watch out for Taunt though.
  2. This set deals with the Dark weakness of set 1. After one Detect, you should outspeed most defensive Pokemon and then be able to play the same way without worrying about a Prankster Immunity.
  3. There might be other uses, but this set very specifically deals with most variants of defensive Levitate Alolan Muk.
  4. This set lets you block one hit, potentially a Fake Out or partially a Z-Move while boosting your evasion. From there, you can try and use Substitute to increase your odds of getting a miss from the opponent or just attack. You can also bypass the evasion to nuke something with Z-HJK.
  5. Basically set 4 but with a Normal base typing instead of Psychic.
  6. This is one of the sets I use most. Z-Detect provides the same benefits as in set 4, while also giving you a turn for Speed Boost to activate, making it more likely you can get off a Substitute or attack before your opponent. STAB Earth Power hits hard off Deoxys-As Special Attack Stat and Bullet Seed beats F.E.A.R. strategies.
  7. A mixed set that can drop a Drought-Boosted STAB Blaze Kick or STAB Z-HJK on the Physical side and carries Special coverage.
  8. A very strong Physical attacker with access to STAB Z-HJK and Blaze Kick. It does have two Special moves but theyre not good for much.
  9. Basically set 8 but with Shadow Claw over Blaze Lick (also it has Speed Boost).
  10. A Special Attacker with STAB Z-Focus Blast and Electric, Ice, and Normal coverage.
  11. Basically set 10, but with Fire coverage over Ice coverage (also it has Speed Boost).
  12. Deoxys-A stats with a Choice Scarf outruns basically everything, save for Deoxys-S and tying with other Scarf Deoxys-A. This set carries BoltBeam plus coverage, and ends up being my bring often because it can basically hit the entire opposing team super effectively.
  13. A mixed Choice Scarf set with the speed tier perks of set 12 and Dry Skin to protect its Ground typing from common Water moves.
  14. A similar set to 13, but a different typing makes Dry Skin less useful and lets it be switched for Drought, which powers up Overheat.
  15. A fast Choice Band user with Fighting STAB and Sun-boosted Fire STAB that tears through a lot, plus coverage. Thi set ends up being useful very often.
  16. A similar set to 15, but it trades Drought for Dry Skin to help the matchup against Water. Also, it has slightly different coverage moves.
  17. Basically set 16, but with a Ghost move instead of Fire move and typing.
  18. Basically set 15, but it trades Drought and its Speed for bulk and power.
  19. Basically set 18, but with a Ghost move instead of Fire move and typing.
  20. A weird looking set in that its a Special attacker based on Blazikens stats, but its super useful for beating Ghost-types with Normalize Skill Swap/Entrainment. It can use Prankster Taunt to stop their strategy and kill them with Shadow Ball, or if that doesnt work out just use Electric Judgement, which isnt affected by Normalize.
  21. This sets mostly for teams that appear to be using Water Bubble. Its typing lures Water-type moves while it fires off a powerful Electric Judgement on the Water-types. Outside of that use, it still has BoltBeam coverage on the Special side and Dual STAB on the Physical side. Watch out for Teravolt Water moves though.
  22. Sort of a middle ground of a few other sets, a non-Choice-locked strong, quick Special Attacker with STAB Electric Judgement forming half of its BoltBeam coverage and letting it deal with some Ghost Normalize sets. It has two physical moves but they dont have much real use.
  23. A pretty niche set that has been helpful against Flying types with priority, specifically Gale Wings users, Aerilate FakeSpeed, and Pixilate FakeSpeed Togekiss.
Rat (Riolu) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 84 HP / 84 Atk / 84 Def / 84 SpA / 84 SpD / 84 Spe
Serious Nature
- Blaze Kick
- High Jump Kick
- Detect
- Substitute

Thor (Heliolisk) @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Toxic
- Electrify
- Wild Charge
- Rock Slide

Star (Deoxys-Attack) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Taunt
- Substitute
- Recover

Sunny (Groudon) @ Zap Plate
Ability: Drought
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 220 HP / 252 Atk / 36 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Thunder
- Focus Blast
- Thunder Punch
- Iron Tail

Buttered (Arceus) @ Choice Band
Ability: Multitype
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Earth Power
- Bullet Seed
- Judgment
- Ice Beam

Hey! Hes Red! (Blaziken) @ Leftovers
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Shadow Claw
- Hyper Beam
- Overheat
Thats my team, definitely try it out if you want. Like I said, some advice on EVs would be great, especially on Arceus and Deoxys-A. Really, I think Prankster Electrify and Z-Detect are cool strategies with a lot of potential and would love to see it if some other people made some even better teams with them. Anyways, thanks for reading!
Click to expand...
Also update sorta? After laddering up some more, getting two of my accs into top 10 and starting the push to number 1 (but taking a break to write this after there wasnt a single battle on the ladder for 20 minutes), I became more happy and decided I actually do think the team's EV's are more or less best as is. Only change I made was replacing Hyper with Solar on Blaziken's Beam. Ion know what qualifies to go on the team thread, and wouldnt b surprised if this team doesnt have the age or results to go up, but if the laddering it got me is enough showing id love to throw it up there. Anyways, like I was saying, i think banning normalize would be a step in the wrong direction for this really interesting meta, so i hope we can avoid that and let it continue to grow.
 
I found a way around Pokemon-specific moves and abilities (Hyperspace Fury, Disguise).

This is done by having the first Pokemon be the specific Pokemon the move/ability requires.

Ex: Mimikyu is slot 1 and 3 allows Disguise to take effect

Mimikyu - http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7chimera-875098126
Zygarde-C - http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7chimera-875107263
Aegislash - http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7chimera-875110038
Darmanitan - http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7chimera-875111773

Meloetta & Hoopa-U - http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7chimera-875114355

This probably works because the code takes the first Pokemon and modifies its type, stats, etc. accordingly. This means it has the ID of that first Pokemon and thus can use the abilities and moves even if it is a combination of multiple Pokemon.

Mega Ray is fine since it seems to be hard-coded out. I tried a team of 6 Rays with the same set with no Z move and I couldn't Mega Evo it.

After the transformation, the stats change to what they would be without the 4th slot. For example, Mimikyu can go from having Giratina stats before the break and to normal Mimikyu stats after. This makes it not nearly as abusable as it could be as it limits not one but two slots to a single Pokemon and it resets the stats if it transforms, limiting another slot. This is likely because of how Showdown handles transformations.

This can theoretically be fixed by forcing the ID of the Pokemon to be something like a Bulbasaur, but that will probably screw up the graphics in what is presented if it's simply coded like that. There's 100% a way around it since a Ditto transformed into Hoopa-U can't use Hyperspace Fury but still looks like a Hoopa-U, but that's probably a mess to code.

Anyway, have fun. Also credit to lost heros for finding this out before me.

Edit: After some more testing, it actually keeps HP. This makes it a lot more abusable by sticking a Blissey on an Aegislash or something similar.
 
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Wanted to post my team which has climbed relatively smoothly for me, as well as mention a move that I'd love to see used more often:

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fun with prisms

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(some stuff outdated, might be improved on as I made a mistake early on and had to change some stuff around after locking other stuff in.)

Includes a fair amount of different strategies, some gimmickier than others, though they're all offensive. At its core lies Specs/Scarf Psychic Surge Prismatic Laser/Photon Geyser off of Pheromosa's stats, always outspeeding Deo-A, disabling opposing (-ate) FakeSpeed (fatespeed?)/Gale Wings, and killing most neutral mons with doubleboosted Prismatic Laser or Photon Geyser through abilities. Aside from a Moongeist Beam variant of the same sets and some Fighting coverage, supporting it we have various sets such as Trick Scarf to catch out defensive answers, Custap Prankster Copycat Shadow Force off of a minspeed Tapu Lele for any remaining attackers without priority, Prankster Bulk Up + Spectral Thief for contrary users, and my personal favorite and very relevant to the current discussion Imprison + Skill Swap ghost type, which beats almost all Skill Swap matchups without being weak to getting scouted.

This combination essentially deals with all Truant/Normalize Skill Swap users that don't either outspeed with ghost or dark type coverage, or in some cases outspeed and win a 50/50. Against slower opponents Imprisoning outright wins 90% of the time (unless they're Truant, can OHKO you, and you don't predict with Endure, or are Normalize with their own type ignoring moves), as Shadow Force + Endure + Ghost type ensures they remain unable to touch you. Against faster Truant users you may Skill Swap them back on the same turn, Imprison on their loaf around, then proceed to win with Shadow Force. Against faster Normalize users you can Imprison, then Skill Swap the next turn as long as they don't outspeed and OHKO (unlikely), rendering them unable to hit you.

Imprison in general is a fun tech regardless of Transform being banned as it is able to restrict opponents without being affected by protective moves from the opponent, and is very flexible thanks to half the moveset being completely customizable. I'd love to see it utilized more in creative ways that I'm unable to come up with; this implementation was just a fun little tech that came up while exploring weaknesses. (And it's just plain fun to completely snipe someone)
 
I think there might be something I'm missing here, but I believe this is a bug. I've encountered strange issues with this situation before, and I can't see a way around this one. This is an Inkay using Geomancy with the stats of of a Max Speed Deo-A. It gets outsped at +2 Spd by a Turtonator at +1 Spd, who changed moves (no scarf) and had a maximum of 326 Spd (genesect). I previously had an issue where this same Inkay at +2 did 1% to a salazzle with earth power. Is there some clause about Geomancy I'm missing? (As a side note, I know deo is the stats and I didn't enter it wrong because Inkay had Xerneas and Golurk's moves, used Dragonite's Item, and did not exert Pressure when it entered)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7chimera-879881126
 
After reading multiple posts about stat-changing transformations and letting some ideas marinate a bit, I've come up with a triple Aegislash based team to try and 'abuse' it a bit.

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deoxyslash/blisseyslash

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Essentially there are two stats that can be used to abuse base stat resetting from form changes (EVs and nature of the slot 4 mon are kept): the obvious HP (coupled with Aegislash-Shield's 150/150 defenses) and the less obvious Speed on the first attack (coupled with Aegislash-Blade's 150/150 offenses). Triple Aegislash are obviously necessary to utilize Stance Change defensively, Blissey and Deo-S are perfect stat donors (Deo-S allows running Modest while still outspeeding Pheromosa). Finally, a Fake Out user is needed to make the transition Shield->Blade->Shield safely and abuse 255/150/150 bulk. Skitty was chosen here to bluff Normalize, but any other user can work (in particular, Sableye has access to Metal Burst as well as Ghost STAB). Steelium Z is used in one set to allow an additional reversion to Shield through Taunt. Aside from these mechanics and choices the team is as straightforward as it gets.

The team was cobbled together fairly quickly so could probably use some improvement. Some things can certainly be changed (such as max defense on Blissey to help live -2 physical hits, running Cosmic Power over Shadow Ball to allow the PP stall set to make use of 150 defense immediately, or using Fake Out/King's Shield/Metal Burst instead of the current CounterCoat set for more consistency). I'm sure there are other things, but those are the most immediate tweaks I've considered. It's worked well enough for me (top 20) to not bother changing it.
 
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SkyBNW said:
I think there might be something I'm missing here, but I believe this is a bug. I've encountered strange issues with this situation before, and I can't see a way around this one. This is an Inkay using Geomancy with the stats of of a Max Speed Deo-A. It gets outsped at +2 Spd by a Turtonator at +1 Spd, who changed moves (no scarf) and had a maximum of 326 Spd (genesect). I previously had an issue where this same Inkay at +2 did 1% to a salazzle with earth power. Is there some clause about Geomancy I'm missing? (As a side note, I know deo is the stats and I didn't enter it wrong because Inkay had Xerneas and Golurk's moves, used Dragonite's Item, and did not exert Pressure when it entered)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7chimera-879881126
Click to expand...
The issue that you are having is that Inkyay's level is changing the stats. So, even though you have Deo-A stats, they are Deo-A's stats at level 1.
 
Hello again. I'm sorry to post another team so soon, but I was thinking of the Tapus and realized I could make a similar team to the one I just made. So, here's my rough dual Terrain team!

Weaknesses:
  • No priority due to possible conflicts with Psychic Terrain
  • Deo-S could use a better item
  • If the opponent has both a Dark-type and a Ground-type and the Ground-type isn't an obvious Sturdy mon I'm not always sure which is going to be their lead, or if one of them is even going to be their lead.
  • "yeah it's a fun concept but it doesn't work lol"
That's the team! I hope that even if it's not a good team you still enjoyed the idea behind it.
 
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