Charge Beam...

cim

cim

happiness is such hard work
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... is a really intriguing move IMO and I want to discuss it! :nerd:

As we all know, Charge Beam is a base 50 Electric move that raises your Special Attack 70% (63% factoring in accuracy) of the time. At first I dismissed it as a worse Calm Mind, but after a bit of thought I think it can have its uses.

The first majorly good thing about Charge Beam is that it is not blocked by Taunt; in fact, it kills the game's most OU taunter (Gyarados). This alone pushes it above Calm Mind is certain situations where, without a Taunt of your own, a stat-upper could be pulverized. Second, it is an Electric move, meaning it can kill Gyarados (who can't Taunt it anyway), sometimes Skarmory and Empoleon (two very common Phazers), and everything else Bolt kills after only 1 CB boost. Finally, Charge Beam has a lot more potential with certain Traits. Serene Grace raises the boost rate to 90% (100 with Wide Lens), Technician greatly compensates for its Base Power, and Special Tanks can fire it off many times before Restalking or Slaking Off. Charge Beam has a lot of untapped potential in my mind.

Unfortunately, Charge Beam can blow dick if used incorrectly or luck hates you. A 63% boost is not even 2/3rds of the time, so it can often take a few turns just to set up. It is also completely stopped by anything Ground-typed, although an Ice Beam, especially a boosted one, can take care of that problem. Finally, there's the problem of its low Base Power. It takes a charge or two to get to Thunderbolt-esque power, and that can take 3 or more turns to reach. All of these make Charge Beam a very frustrating move.

Despite its flaws, Charge Beam has found some success on Pokémon suited for it. Jirachi's Serene Grace and possibly Wide Lens make the move much more reliable for the Steel pixie, making a novelty Charge Beam set possible. Cresselia has the defenses to take a hit while charging itself up, making it a popular option on Restalking variants. Less explored is the possibility of combining it with Technician. Charge Beam, in the right hands, is a very potent move for many Pokémon.

Alright! I'm sorry I kinda left not much to discuss, but I wanted to hear what you guys think of Charge Beam and who is best suited to abuse it. So tell me what you think!
 
What seems to have a lot of potential in theory gets hurt a bit when you look at what can get it.

http://www.serebii.net/attackdex-dp/chargebeam.shtml

- Regice can use it kinda. As in, you can kinda use Regice and then you can kinda use Charge Beam on it. Though I think that with all the extra damage Regice takes (25% Stealth Rock, other spikes, Sandstream, and then Gyarados is more powerful against it than ever in Advance) it's lucky if it gets to fire off one Thunderbolt against Gyarados
- Zapdos can pass the Charge Beam boosts
- Dunsparce has Serene Grace
- Octillery can use it against other waters due to lack of Thunderbolt
- Porygon2 has tanking potential with it
- Celebi can tank with it and can Baton Pass the boosts
- Solrock and Lunatone can Baton Pass
- Jirachi has Serene Grace
- Bronzong makes a splendid Gyarados counter with it and lacks Thunderbolt anyway
- Cresselia can use it against Gyarados and to boost its offense from horrible to less horrible

It's like a situationally useful move that most people are aware of. Not really something I'd call overlooked.
 
I used a Porygon2 for a while with it, and it's an amazing counter to many things. It can shrug off most physical moves and can easily ruin any Gyarados' fun. I've actually managed to kill many Blisseys with it. I'd trace Natural Cure, and then I'd Charge Beam and get around 4 boosts before he realizes what trouble he's in. By then, that Blissey is going to die, or whatever he switches in if he wants to save Blissey is going to die. Managed to kill about 6 or more Blisseys that way :P.

Not being blocked by Taunt helps it counter Gyarados even better, and in long stall wars it makes you almost unbeatable. Unfortunately, at least on my part, it seems to miss more than Hypnosis. But maybe that's just me...
 
I used to do stuff like that... and then the metagame changed so that Blisseys run calm mind now. WTF?

Yeah, Blissey with Calm Mind pretty much beats stat-upping special attackers.
 
Charge Beam has it's uses, but just to put it out there, Charge Beam is not a -reliable- Gyarados counter, considering that even with 220 Special attack, non-Stab supposed "Gyarados counters" Cresselia and Bronzong needs THREE hits to kill it, and this is before considering Leftovers. By all means, it's not like Bronzong/Cresselia can do anything better to Gyarados, but just a forewarning that Charge Beam should not be thought of like "Well, I just let Gyarados get 6 Dragon Dances, and it can't OHKO me...so Charge Beam will get the job done for me." That sadly only works for Garchomp/Salamence with Ice Beams. =[

P.S. STAB Charge Beams needs a minimum of 349 Special Attack to have a CHANCE of doing 100% max. These kind of facts and numbers are sometimes interesting to know...
 
Aeroblacktyl said:
Charge Beam has it's uses, but just to put it out there, Charge Beam is not a -reliable- Gyarados counter, considering that even with 220 Special attack, non-Stab supposed "Gyarados counters" Cresselia and Bronzong needs THREE hits to kill it, and this is before considering Leftovers. By all means, it's not like Bronzong/Cresselia can do anything better to Gyarados, but just a forewarning that Charge Beam should not be thought of like "Well, I just let Gyarados get 6 Dragon Dances, and it can't OHKO me...so Charge Beam will get the job done for me." That sadly only works for Garchomp/Salamence with Ice Beams. =[

P.S. STAB Charge Beams needs a minimum of 349 Special Attack to have a CHANCE of doing 100% max. These kind of facts and numbers are sometimes interesting to know...
Click to expand...
Bronzong doesn't nessisarily need three, if he gets the special attack boost. I absolutely love passing a charge beam boost and a nasty plot from ambiom to a special attacker ^^
 
Sadly, given Bronzong's poor special attack, it'd still be a 3HKO even if it does get a boost after the first hit. Off it's shivering 194 special attack, you can only hope to do 37% max. Should you get the boost, you'd still only be able to do 56% max. Should you be unfortunate to never get a boost, after Leftovers Bronzong would actually need 4 hits to kill, but god forbid that doesn't happen.
 
Aeroblacktyl said:
Sadly, given Bronzong's poor special attack, it'd still be a 3HKO even if it does get a boost after the first hit. Off it's shivering 194 special attack, you can only hope to do 37% max. Should you get the boost, you'd still only be able to do 56% max. Should you be unfortunate to never get a boost, after Leftovers Bronzong would actually need 4 hits to kill, but god forbid that doesn't happen.
Click to expand...
oh... Sorry, I read the anaylisis once and it said that, maybe a quite one could work, but yeah, probably not.
 
Or more retarded considering it will damage absolutely nothing, let's stick with Charge Beam discussion.
Click to expand...

People never realise I'm joking and that the point is that a wall that can stay in and stat up while damaging is very deadly which is why it's even more relevant as we're talking about Charge Beam here.

I think Blissey could use Charge Beam well with some special attack, especially with Serene Grace. e.g: Softboiled, Charge Beam, Shadow Ball, Flamethrower/Ice Beam (Water Pulse?, Psychic?, Secret Power?)
 
I used to think of Charge Beam Cresselia as a lame gimmick, something that wished it could be Calm Mind Cresselia, but the ability to use it while Taunted is definitely something that could put it over Calm Mind Cress.
 
Regarding Bliss as a Charge Beamer:

I don't think that would work, because the second they saw Blissey, they'd switch to their standard Bliss counter, and since it's all the easier for them because you don't have T-wave or S-toss, stuff like Gallade could take the first few hits with ease if it wanted to. Although CM can be Taunted, its 100% chance of happening makes it better for Bliss.
 
You're right, I forgot about Serene Grace. That'd definately improve its chance of getting the boost, but your still gonna be slower than everything else, and while you Charge Beam, anything can switch in and threaten you with a strong Close Combat. Dugtrio could also switch in once he knows your strategy, survive an unboosted Ice Beam (IIRC, they can carry SpDef EVs to do so), and 2HKO with EQ. Ka-boom! Bye, Bliss.
 
Yeah, the problem with Calm Mind / Charge Beam Blissey is that it's too fragile when it comes to taking Physical hits. If you use it in mid-game to reliably take hits from Special threats, consider this scenario: Your opponent has out Gengar, so you switch to Blissey and take Thunderbolt. Now, this is a Choice Scarf Gengar, so you Calm Mind the switch, and they send out Infernape. Now you either die to a Close Combat or switch. Wouldn't Thunder Wave be that much simpler?
 
you can run charge beam on bronzong

i mean it'll be a pain in the ass if it's something like

bronzong@lefties
levitate
252 HP/124 DEF/124 SP. DEF/10 SP. ATK
Modest
Iron Defense
Calm Mind
Charge Beam
Psychic/Shadow Ball/Grass Knot/Flash Cannon

but i mean, that is if charge beam is a must

iron defense and calm mind will allow it to stay in there for a really long time...if you're able to pull off 3 iron defense and 6 calm minds, which is possible for bronzong

still can tank, and now it's able to have a high special attack...not the best, but it can work
 
There is nothing to gain from Charge Beam if you intend on Calm Minding and might as well use Hidden Power Electric. ._.
 
Wide Lens Serene Grace Charge Beam has a 99% chance to boost, factoring Accuracy. Wide Lens's 10% Accuracy boost is multiplicative, meaning you'd multiply your Accuracy by 1.1.

If you only know two things about math in Pokemon, it's multiply, don't add, and round down. Although I don't know if you round down for Accuracy...
 
On the Wide Lens thing, I forgot to not round up. Whoops. If it was an "add 10%" boost Wide Lens would actually be a usable item.

Mood4food77 said:
you can run charge beam on bronzong

i mean it'll be a pain in the ass if it's something like

bronzong@lefties
levitate
252 HP/124 DEF/124 SP. DEF/10 SP. ATK
Modest
Iron Defense
Calm Mind
Charge Beam
Psychic/Shadow Ball/Grass Knot/Flash Cannon

but i mean, that is if charge beam is a must

iron defense and calm mind will allow it to stay in there for a really long time...if you're able to pull off 3 iron defense and 6 calm minds, which is possible for bronzong

still can tank, and now it's able to have a high special attack...not the best, but it can work
Click to expand...

Eh, it could work, but CM/Charge Beam is redundant. As that guy said, HP Electric would make more sense. Maybe even Chestorest. I wish Bliss got Iron Defense!

CMBliss is just as unable to take a physical hit as non-CM Bliss. Unless you run 252 Satk. Which is not as good an idea as the evil man behind Serebii says.

IIRC, they can carry SpDef EVs to do so.
Click to expand...
Strangely, Dugtrios can take one Ice Beam from Blissey with no EVs in Sdefense. Weird.

I do love the idea of running Flamethrower on CBliss to laugh at Heracross. So hard.

And that's every random thought I had while reading replies!

252 HP/124 DEF/124 SP. DEF/10 SP. ATK
Modest
By the way, this wastes EVs. I am too lazy to calculate, but basically less Defense, a pro Defensive nature to make up for it, and EVs in Satk leave you with 12 spare EVs and the same stats or so. Some guy wrote this awesome Defensive EV calculator you should be using over 252/124/124/10 regardless. Don't do drugs.

As long as I'm adding random stuff, here's my Charge Beam Jirachi set IIRC
Jirachi @ Wide Lens / Life Orb / Wisdom Glasses / Whatever.
Timid 252/252
Charge Beam
Psychic / Shadow Ball
HP Fighting / Water Pulse
Thunder / Water Pulse / Energy Ball / Wish

Pretty much every choice is here, but they're all worth taking into consideration.
Charge Beam is obvious. Psychic gets STAB, but Shadow Ball covers more things better as well as a 40% stat-lowering bonus. HP Fighting hits everything neutral (excluding Psychic types if you go STAB), but Water Pulse is resisted by one Steel type (Empoleon) and one Dark type (Weaville), making it a viable option for psuedo-"hit everything". Last move is your choice of filler; Thunder makes people paralyzed 47% of the time factoring in 77% accuracy (42% no Lens), Water Pulse's 40% confuse rate combined with the Sp.Def drop on stuff can force switches, Energy Ball covers Bulky Waters that would block your status boost, and Wish is for healing.
 
How is Flamethrower going to help Blissey stand down a Heracross Close Combat?

With a move as inconsistent as Charge Beam you really need a Pokemon that has some sort of secondary way of boosting its effiency, yet things like Yanma that would most benefit from it don't get it =S
 
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