CAP Updates: Volkraken Discussion (Complete)

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So here's something to discuss:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Volkraken Wring Out (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 28 SpD Slowbro: 334-393 (84.9 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Volkraken Wring Out (108 BP) vs. 248 HP / 28 SpD Slowbro: 300-353 (76.3 - 89.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Wring Out's power scales very poorly with prior damage, but against healthy opponents on the Specs set it does massive neutral damage on initial switchins.
Not making recommendations for allow or disallow (it has poor performance on Scarf because it can't one-shot), but it's not like Wring Out is totally worthless on Kraken.
 
I think it's worth pointing out that every Fire-type that's not a forme change gets Flame Charge. Volkraken notably lacks this move, though I think I see why:

Volkraken @ Waterium Z / Firium Z
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Hydro Pump
- Flame Charge
- Destiny Bond

While not as immediately potent as a Scarf set, being able to swap STAB moves and to D-bond is kinda scary. I'm not sure if that's enough to not consider Flame Charge though.
 
Sad that no one even considered working Haze nor Gunk Shot into their movepool submission even though the ink flavour is very strong.

Anyway, thoughts on Flame Charge and Wring Out.

Wring Out to me operates like how Z-Hyper Beam users operate - use a neutral and high base power attack to cream its usual checks and counters. Both have one extreme drawback - Z-Hyper Beam is only reliable once, while Wring Out starts turning to shit after chip damage - more than it can do damage. It tbh doesn't seem like that much of an impact if you view it in that regard.

Flame Charge is a bit more cheeky however. I'd personally run that set snake_rattler submitted as a sweeper to soften checks for another water type to sweep later on. The thing is, you have to view how these things affect viability. It has been accepted that even with our best interests at heart, the simplest of flavour moves will have sone form of competitive impact, regardless if it is a consistency update or not. Volt Switch Kril and Cyl are perfect examples. These moves are almost always on mons of their respective typing, but as we know Volt Switch has competitive implications. But how we should view it is, we know it has these implications, but does it drastically affect tge viability of this mon to the point where it pushes it towards a competitive update? Heavy Slam Colossoil is a good example here. Heavy Slam is always on heavy mons, and Colossoil is heavy. But Heavy Slam had far too much competitive impact, as it turned far too many consistent switchins in pure fodder, so it was eventually barred from submission. I think Flame Charge falls more in line with Volt Switch Kril - it adds a new element to the Pokemon and may or may not furthur lead to new sets emerging, but it doesn't overall adversely affect Volkraken's viability nor does it change up what checks the Squid for the most part. Even with that set, Volk will still have more or less the same checks, and I doubt any checks will become too bad to check it afterwards.

TL;DR Wring Out and Flame Charge Volkraken is fine; Gunk Shot and / or Haze Volkraken needs to happen.
 
G-Luke said:
Sad that no one even considered working Haze nor Gunk Shot into their movepool submission even though the ink flavour is very strong.

Anyway, thoughts on Flame Charge and Wring Out.

Wring Out to me operates like how Z-Hyper Beam users operate - use a neutral and high base power attack to cream its usual checks and counters. Both have one extreme drawback - Z-Hyper Beam is only reliable once, while Wring Out starts turning to shit after chip damage - more than it can do damage. It tbh doesn't seem like that much of an impact if you view it in that regard.

Flame Charge is a bit more cheeky however. I'd personally run that set snake_rattler submitted as a sweeper to soften checks for another water type to sweep later on. The thing is, you have to view how these things affect viability. It has been accepted that even with our best interests at heart, the simplest of flavour moves will have sone form of competitive impact, regardless if it is a consistency update or not. Volt Switch Kril and Cyl are perfect examples. These moves are almost always on mons of their respective typing, but as we know Volt Switch has competitive implications. But how we should view it is, we know it has these implications, but does it drastically affect tge viability of this mon to the point where it pushes it towards a competitive update? Heavy Slam Colossoil is a good example here. Heavy Slam is always on heavy mons, and Colossoil is heavy. But Heavy Slam had far too much competitive impact, as it turned far too many consistent switchins in pure fodder, so it was eventually barred from submission. I think Flame Charge falls more in line with Volt Switch Kril - it adds a new element to the Pokemon and may or may not furthur lead to new sets emerging, but it doesn't overall adversely affect Volkraken's viability nor does it change up what checks the Squid for the most part. Even with that set, Volk will still have more or less the same checks, and I doubt any checks will become too bad to check it afterwards.

TL;DR Wring Out and Flame Charge Volkraken is fine; Gunk Shot and / or Haze Volkraken needs to happen.
Click to expand...

Read up on the process archive (CAP18 movepool submissions). Volkraken is based on a vampire squid. It doesn't shoot ink. It uses lights. Gunk Shot and Haze, while I supported them earlier in the thread, inherently go against the flavor of the mon, even if it's a squid, because not all squids shoot ink.

From the winning movepool:

Korski said:
Vampire squids don’t actually produce ink like other squids and octopi, instead relying on their bioluminescence for evading predators and whatnot. I think this is a very cool and unique attribute of the CAP’s design, so I wanted to emphasize Volkraken’s use of bioluminescence over more traditional cephalopod-related inky moves. As a result, the movepool is devoid of any Poison-type or ink-based moves (like Octazooka) and more focused on Volkraken’s physical traits.
Click to expand...
 
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Could Spotlight be a good way of replicating that flavourwise at least. It doesn't really affect in singles, but Z move gives +1 SpD and redirects attacks away. It's not a set up attacker either, and it usually gets slapped in with Physical moves anyway, so I don't think that's broken.

Also Fire Lash; it's a literally flaming squid, and it has a very poor attack. Only issue is that it would have to be event move, or in the leveled list, because it doesn't share an egg group with Heatmor.
 
Hesh Kadesh said:
Could Spotlight be a good way of replicating that flavourwise at least. It doesn't really affect in singles, but Z move gives +1 SpD and redirects attacks away. It's not a set up attacker either, and it usually gets slapped in with Physical moves anyway, so I don't think that's broken.

Also Fire Lash; it's a literally flaming squid, and it has a very poor attack. Only issue is that it would have to be event move, or in the leveled list, because it doesn't share an egg group with Heatmor.
Click to expand...

I have to agree with Hesh Kadesh here, these are really flavourful suggestions, since non of the squids get Illuminate as an ability.
 
Final Submission

0 Constrict
0 Flash
0 Absorb
Evo Move: Dive
4 Water Gun
8 Bite
13 Reflect
17 Fire Spin
17 Whirlpool
21 Flame Burst
26 Scald
30 Destiny Bond
39 Fire Lash
43 Power Gem
47 Aqua Ring
52 Heat Wave
56 Hydro Pump
60 Wring Out
65 Memento
So firstly, I removed the Water Gun and Reflect duplicates, as they made zero sense. Leech Life was replaced with Absorb, as how most mons learning Leech Life did. Then I switched the order of Reflect and Water Gun, as It should really learn a Water type move first. I also made Dive the evolve move to signify it learning how to cope with deep sea pressure. Fire Lash was added as not only is it flavourful with Volkraken's tentacles, but Volkraken lacks much Fire type level up moves. Wring Out was finally used to fill the awkward 10 level gap between Hydro Pump and Memento.

TM06 Toxic
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM17 Protect
TM18 Rain Dance
TM21 Frustration
TM27 Return
TM28 Leech Life
TM32 Double Team
TM33 Reflect
TM35 Flamethrower
TM38 Fire Blast
TM41 Torment
TM42 Facade
TM43 Flame Charge
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM46 Thief
TM48 Round
TM50 Overheat
TM54 False Swipe
TM55 Scald
TM56 Fling
TM60 Quash
TM61 Will-O-Wisp
TM66 Payback
TM68 Giga Impact
TM83 Infestation
TM87 Swagger
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM89 U-turn
TM90 Substitute
TM91 Flash Cannon
TM94 Surf
TM98 Waterfall
TM100 Confide

Moved Leech Life to TMs. Surf and Waterfall became TMs. Flame Charge is added because it doesn't have much competitive impact and every fully evolved Fire type learns the attack. Also added Infestation as it matches with its Bug type to egg group flavour and has zero competitive impact.

Aqua Jet
Assurance
Captivate
Camoflauge
Reflect Type
Scary Face
Tickle
Water Pulse

Gotta give it to Deck Knight, Reflect Type is an ingenious way to suggest Volkraken's bioluminesence and cephalopods ability to change their skins colour and texture to that of their surroundings. Even though I still added Camoflauge for good measure, as fellow squid Inkay gets it as well.

Bind
Bounce
Heat Wave
Snore
Water Pulse

Heat Wave and Water Pulse are duplicated from level up and egg moves.
Bind is added as its a freaking Squid, and it gets Constrict already.
Bounce is added as many mons from the Water 2 egg group gain this move, including fellow cephalopod Octillerry.
Snore is a universal move tutor.
[/hide]

Flash (Gen 5/6 TM 70)
Incinerate (Gen 6 TM59)
Secret Power (ORAS TM94)

Dropped Secret Power as it was an universal TM in ORAS.

Wow. Luke and snek teaming up?!? This last movepool race seems to be very intense.
 
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