CAP 17 CAP 6 - Art Submissions

[Hollymon]

Hmm as no one liked the superman one , I decided to draw some new ones

Edit: here is the updated lineart

And here is for Doran Dragon a rhydon tail version
http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/4457/fksy.jpg

Old

The knight bird : based on a woodpecker, whose beak is a jousting stick. It has shields on its wing and a helmet with a feather and armour on its belly which it drums on to create loud noises to rise attack.
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/6963/42j6.jpg

The helicopter dragon! It has propellers on its back and tail. Armour on its upper body tail and arms. It's feet were supposed to resemble helicopter skis and overall kind of looks like a helicopter?
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/1630/exyc.jpg

Next post I am gonna concentrate on Copter Dragon as it had more favourable comments. But anyway here are some comments for everyone in alphabetical order :) If I missed you out, your CAP was not showing up on the second post

Comments!

Alakaboom Your art quality is impressive and I think it looks much better now with the beak so keep working at it and it will be great! Maybe you could experiment with colours and how the wings look - maybe making them more bird like? Or just leave them idk
andrew3391 The new version is so much better than the first version but I think you should experiment with colours because they look a bit bland at the moment. But I do love the design and I think this could be really good if developed a bit more :)
Arkeis I was trying to do a UFO when I started designing for this cap but your one is soooo much better. I like the way that I could see how it was steel type even though it is white and with a bit more time it will look even better!
Bernoid While the art is Fantastic, it does not really suit the steel typing so if you maybe think of a way of incorporating metal into the design it will be a worthy competitor
Birkal I like this! It's creative, shows off both types and its quite funny aswell. It is a really good idea to launch itself aswell!
Blue Frog This is a good idea and looks good but I think you could make it look a bit more like a peacock by lengthening the neck a little. I like the design of the metal at the back but I don't really like the single one on his head lol but overall a good contender
Calad Well I think this is one of, if not THE, best designs in the thread so far and it just looks SO good. It is clear what type it is and is such a simple but effective idea! I love it!
Canis Majoris This is a good idea but maybe if you related it more towards coockoo clocks instead of just saying it. Maybe you could have it looking like the bird is popping out from a clock and have a spring on the tail and an actual coockoo clock hanging from the spring like the bird is carrying its house around? Idk just thinking of ideas
Cheeno The new picture is by far better than the old one. It looks more distinguished now it is coloured and I like his big hands and wing ears. But maybe you should make the steel type more obvious because I can't see it at the moment. Also I think you should change the colours.
Darklatias92 I like the idea but at the moment it doesn't really look like an all in one pokemon. It kind of just looks like a lizard who jumped in a plane? Maybe you should have it connected to the plane like Arkeis' UFO mon? Just my thoughts though. Ignore them if you want :)
Doran Dragon I think yours is probably my favourite one so far because its such a good idea and still looks good even though the colours are flat. A literal shark plane is such an ingenious idea and you pulled it off really well. One thing to improve would maybe make the wings a little larger to really emphasise the flying type but it still looks good as it is! :)
DougJustDoug I really like it! It's so cute and chubby and looks like an astronaut rocket and shows off the Steel type well! Not sure about the flying type however. Some people think its fine but others have said it does not look flying type enough so maybe you could just have like a puff of smoke coming out the rocket to throw away the association with fire? Idk though your probably not going to listen to me though anyway
Dracoyoshi8 Yours is another of the best designs. It's so unusual but fits both types and also belly drum aswell. I would never of thought of it and that's what makes it so amazing! You did it last CAP aswell but your ability to think of creative ideas is phenomenal !
Elcheeso I think your idea is good but I can't tell if the hammer is on the nose or tail ? Also I'm sure it will look fine when its coloured but try to emphasise the steel type more but it looks good so far :)
ferraferra This is amazing! I really like this and for your second post here it is fantastic! Maybe you could make the wings look more like wings though ? Just saying
Harle This is truly fantastic artwork and I do like the peacock fan idea but at the moment it does not look like it can fly. Maybe a new picture showing it flying would help lol but I really must say your art work is marvellous
Knickles I like this idea! I had an idea to do a chicken but yours is so much better lol. Is it,ind of based of a plane? If so maybe doing the tail like a plane would help this but I don't know if it is or not
Knirp While the idea of chicken leg as a leg is good, i think the main reason people were telling you to replace the (old) drumstick feet was because it kind of looks like they wouldn't support the body and it wouldn't look balanced. This still applies, albeit less, but I think maybe having the bones as arms and then having a set of normal feet would look better. Just my opinion.
Limapro643 well I think it's a robot with propellers everywhere. Umm I don't really know what to say but I think you should modify it so it is based on an animal or a myth or an inanimate object because i don't really knows what it is? Sorry
Magistrum well your art always blows ,e away and I just love the frigate bird! Combining birds, anchors and admirals together is genius but some people are confused where the steel part is? Well, I THINK it is the anchor but maybe including another metal nautical theme would help people. I love the frigate bird though!
Momochuu If its a bat, I think you should change the face to a more... batty face lol you know what I mean but I like the original idea of the wings on the tail though
Mos-Quitoxe I like both but the gong is the way to go imo! Maybe make the flying type ore prominent but its early days and if you choose the genie, I like it too :)
Orivexes This is a rather strange idea but it kinda works. The head looks kind of like a bird so maybe make the wings more bird like ? And also what are those things coming out of the helmet?
paintseagull Haha that little bird looks so confused! I really like this it is quite a simple design but it so funny and cute! Maybe try to make the steel type more prominent and also out of the choices of heads, the current one is fine
phantom99 No offense but I think the idea could do some revising. It is just really a cloud with rockets on and is not very creative? Maybe try to think of animals and inanimate objects to base your design on ?
Prankster I like the idea of the smoke being hair and the rocket being a hat! It's very original! I think you could get rid of the neon green thoughts it does not fit at all and also the fire looks a bit green aswell. But why is it so sad:( make him happy !!! :D
Quanyails It's very cute and looks more able to drum than Calads but I think it is underdeveloped and plain atm but obviously it's a rough idea and hopefully you going to make it more detailed? But i like the idea of combining bullets, blimps and rockets all in one. I was going to do a bullet but I could not think of anything but yours is good so far
Scoopapa Okay! It's a rasta drum! I like the idea and the art is good but I think you should make the cloud not purple and redo the face and arms as they look a bit rushed? But good so far
Sgt.Moose I like this as it is kind of like a crazy creepy bird! It's face is well designed and also tail bit I think you could improve the wings. Look at birds from the real games and try to make it more like them. But a good idea so far!
Shanimanim While your entry is visually appealing, I looked at a cassowarie, and it is LITERALLY a cassowarie with metal legs and a metal head. I think you could make it more original but I d like the way you have drawn it. Also the red bits don't fit. But I do like it it just isn't very original
The Steam Punk Hmm I think you should go with the third one because the other two are bit plain and look more bug than flying.
TordenOfItami This has been said many times but I looks like a bug. It is a fantastic drawing though, no kidding but it is not right for this CAP. Keep thinking of ideas though!
Toarkoals Hmm I don't really know what it is but I can see both types. It looks a bit odd so can you explain what it is based off?
WPS These are really good! I think the idea is fantastic and well pulled off and it is a good idea combining those two things to fit with both the the typing and belly drum aswell! Well done
Yilx You are such an amazing artist! It is a fantastic piece of artwork an I like the idea of a bell ! It is like a flying mecha bell girl and is a good idea. But the face looks a bit too human imo but it may just be me
Zigzagar I think a flying pig is a good idea like the saying goes but yours does not really look steel type and I think you should choose either the wings or the levitating feet, not both. Also I think you should redo the colours and wings aswell
Zracknel This is amazing an it incredibly creative to have a cymbal propeller! The drum is good aswell. Not much to improve :)

 

[Mos-Quitoxe]

Hollymon I think it would be best to continue development of copterdragon. We're full to bursting with birds.

 

[WPS]

OK, I've entered a few times but never actually gotten round to making a final submission. Hopefully I can get that far this time.
Anyway, a rough sketch of my only current idea:

It's a combination of the flying monkeys from the wizard of oz and the cymbal monkey from various peoples nightmares. The gist of it is it can pull off the cymbals on its chest, showing its clockwork innards and going completely berserk. I can change its body shape depending on what stat spread people agree on, since there's loads of different types of apes, but for now I want to try and tweak the design so it looks more like an actual Pokémon.

Edit: Sorry, should be within size limits this time.

 

[Arkeis]

Going for a flying saucer:

Excuse the crappy sketch. I don't have much time this week (or next week for that matter).
When it uses Belly Drum, it pounds the buttons on its "belly" to activate the attack boost. I thought that would be an interesting way of using the move.

 

[Birkal]

Super rough sketch here. I took two of the fastest things I could think of from Flying and Steel-types. The result was a combination of a roadrunner and a cannonball! It can retract its neck, feet, and wings into its cannonball body. It can do this while running at high speeds, resulting in a devastatingly powerful hit. It's basically a cannonball that can fire itself!

This design is working off of a speedy stat spread though; if we end up not going with much speed, I will likely go for something else. Liking all the creativity we have so far! Remember not to get too caught up in the whole "Belly Drum" thing. There are numerous Pokemon out there that have moves that don't exactly align with its physical form (Wooper with Ice Punch comes to mind). As long as the design can touch its abdomen, I think we'll be fine.

 

[paintseagull]

I tried a few ideas but this is what I've found to really work for me, so I'm going to go with it!
My design is based on a couple different birds of paradise - specifically the dancing / shape shifting ones
Video of Superb Bird of Paradise
bonus: the guy calls the bird's display feathers 'cape feathers'
Video of Carola's Parotia

I thought their shiny display feathers that flare out looked like shiny protective plates - so that's how I encorporated them into my design. I also put some directly over the eyes to make it look like the pokemon is wearing glasses, sort of. Since it's a steel type, and wing feathers look so blade-like to me, I also encorporated that element. His beak is also shiny and metallic. Another cool thing that pushed me towards this idea is that the Superb Birds of Paradise slap their wings and tail feathers on the ground as they do their displays - sort of like Belly drumming, which this guy could do by drumming against his chest/belly plates.

Some alternate eye/crest/beak ideas - let me know your thoughts on these?

Note: ''moderation' posts don't count towards regular art/opinion post limits

Comments:

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@Calad This design has so much personality and style, I really love it. Maybe it can't envoke belly drum in the way most people would imagine, but I think the flipper-style wings and the large, hollow body are enough for the move to fit.

@Doran Dragon So stylish and cool, it works perfectly I think!

@DougJustDoug I like this idea (I have a couple of sketches along the same lines). He is a bit bland right now, though. Too bulky and round, not enough definition or interest. The tiny limbs seem awkward and the angled lines on the feet and markings on the body seem out of place. I'd definitely try playing with proportions.

@Hailblue Nice idea, but it needs a lot more personality and design work.

@Knirp I find that there's too many details, too many xylophone keys and the bones as legs are kind of freaky.. try simplifying this and I think it will be much better.

@Blue Frog A good start, especially on the tail, but some parts of the design feel a bit lazy and plain. The shape of the body and wings specifically. If the bird has folded wings, are they stiff? What do they look like outstretched, if not? If so, should they be outstretched instead of folded?

@Darklatias92 Definitely over-designed. Can you incorporate the plane elements onto the dino in a more clever way? There are more realistic dinosaur shapes that look more like birds that could work. The belly "button" is kind of awkward and really unnecessary.

@Harle I really like this. The wing placement is a bit unclear at the moment, so a reworked pose or supporting sketches would help.

@Knickles nice overall design, but I don't think the chicken head really works well. The rest of the design is too sleek and cool looking for a silly chicken head

@Prankster way over designed, clashing colour scheme. Simplify!

@Hollymon I think the knight bird is really clever, especially how the beak resembles a joust. I like the design sense of the helicopter beast too, good proportions and personality.

@Yilx Love the colours, design elements, idea (an of course the execution). The 'arm' part of the wings look a little flimsy and overall they are maybe a bit too big, since they're not realistic or functional, you might not want them to draw so much attention away from the body of the design.

@Arkeis I really like the design and idea, but I think you could do away with the buttons and encorporate some flair in another part of the design. The buttons are way too forced, and not necessary for Belly Drum.

@LimaPro643 The idea works, but it's a bit generic looking right now. Try giving him more personality by adding some more specific, directed design elements or flare to his face (his eye could use some definition or personality. his smile (?) could also be more clear) and to his body. Also, the motion lines around the propellers would make this version of your design illegal as a Main Design for final submission.

@Alakaboom The belly drum hand prints are really unnecessary and a bit weird. He looks a bit like he's leaning backwards right now. I think your design would stand out more if you played up the punk attitude and pushed the proportions a bit more. His body could stand to be smaller (especially his lower body, which looks awkward), while his head could be a lot bigger, and the wings should still stand out strongly as they do now.

@Magistrum I definitely prefer the Frigate bird. The colour scheme is great and the anchor beak is really clever. If you want to do away with comparisons to Honchkrow, you could probably get rid of his hat and play up the anchor even more. Right now the way you've highlighted the detailing separating his red chest and the rest of him make it look like a shiny gooey material. Those blue feathers wouldn't be raised above the red part and wouldn't pick up the light so specifically and smoothly like that. Reserve that kind of highlighting for metallic parts that should look shiny, so they'll stand out more.

@Scoopapa Legality note: the way you've drawn the purple cloud would make this version of your design illegal for Final Submission as a Main Design.

@Zracknel Really clever, nice colour scheme and awesome proportioning. You could make the design better by giving him a more strongly defined personality and more sharply defined 'face'. Right now one of his hands seems to be blocking a mouth-like design element which I'm not sure about. There are also some perspective issues with both the silver and bronze screws on the far side of him

 

[Zracknel]

throwing my hat into the ring...

The pokemon world doesn't have much by the way of instrument-based pokemon... and since this cap is going to be featuring belly drum as a move, why not try a design based around a flying, metallic, percussive drum? It could play air drums or something, haha...

The cymbal-esque shape above its drum-face is actually a series of helicopter-like propellers spinning at high speed.

I'm a big fan of the designs of bronzong/magnezone/cryogonal/klinklang etc, so I tried doing something more in that direction. It might not be everybody's taste but maybe someone out there will like it!

 

[CJorex]

I've done a slightly more finalized sketch of Cassowary-mon's metal casque, however I'm toying with the shape of it's wattle and the prospect of gender differences. ( warning it's kinda large.)

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Females are usually the larger and more aggressive of the species so I have tried to reflect that in the male's face by giving it rounder features.http://i.imgur.com/lDczXtM.jpg

Drumming 101: Traditionally, mons with access to Belly Drum have forearms with which to beat their bellies. Being a bird, my concept doesn't have have the ability to easily do so.As this CAP necessitates Belly Drum, some out of the box thinking was required and I have come up with two scenarios that I need help deciding on.

1. While not technically drumming it belly, cassowaries can produce a low-frequency rhythmic call by vibrating its chest cavity, which can be heard here: http://www.xeno-canto.org/132934 In the game the source of this noise can be its stomach rather than chest.
2. Or the wattles can be used as drumsticks against its body, i guess...

You could just have it pecking at its own belly.

 

[Knirp]

So here he is belly drumming....so happy:p

It's still a rough sketch and especially the left wing seems a bit off but I'll fix it later. First I'd like to hear some more comments and opinions on the changes I made. I also really wanted to show how i envisioned this bird to fly/belly drum asap because the first two images didn't really make that clear yet.

Because of the criticism on the feet of the mon I changed the mallet-feet into bone (drumstick) feet;) (I updated the original drawing in my first post). I decided to make the bird completely black because it fits the darker insides when the wings are 'closed' better. The bird got a bit fatter in the process too and I might need to adjust the original drawing a bit further to show off the size.
Depending on the speed this CAP will get I might slim the bird down again (might make the feet longer again too).

Please let me know if you like the changes. If there are some more new submissions I'll see if I can comment on my favorites.
@Magistrum I really love your frigate bird, guess it's my favorite atm. The only part I dislike is the transition area from the leg to the chest, the wavy lines so to speak. Is there a reason it's like the way it is now? The other minor gripe with the design is that the secondary type (besides flying) might not be obvious enough (could be water or even fighting now because of the fists...). Maybe you can make it's talons as shiny as the beak and make them look more steel/gold like? I prefer the main color scheme btw.

Edit: @alexwolf Thanks for the comment. I see can see where you're coming from, although I don't completely agree on the "do not look like bird feet at all". They were supposed to look like a cartoonified version of these: http://healthyrecipesblogs.com/2012/02/27/honey-baked-chicken/ (although maybe i did a crappy job trying to draw them ;))
I'll try to address this and other commented parts in an update later. Thanks for the feedback everyone!

 

[LimaPro643]

http://imgur.com/4850nR6

I'll have it with color tomorrow. Full Color! Still not final, though.

http://m.imgur.com/RX1iMyo

I can just imagine this thing flying around in the air, having a good ol' time. With miniature zeppelins for hands, the clouds are their arena.

By the way, I really appreciate the feedback and plan to incorporate several changes in later submissions of my design.

 

[alexwolf]

@Knirp

Very clever design! On thing that i don't like and i think by fixing it would improve your design a lot is the legs. Currently they are just two sticks of bones which are supposed to be the drumsticks but they don't resemble real bird-legs at all. One thing you could do is a mix of the current design you have but add some toes to the legs and generally make them more bird-like. Of 'course keep the part that is supposed to beat the ''belly drum' intact so whenever the bird want to do it, it will just have to close its toes like a fist and drum the belly with the remaining stick-like part. Sorry if my post didn't made much sense, this was the best way i could describe it in English.

 

[Alakabooom]

Thanks to lots of helpful feedback, I made some adjustments in what I hope to be the forward direction:

Major Changes: Abdomen has handprints from excessive belly-drumming, Rounded wings, Helmet removed, Beak & Avian face added, Body made more feathery, added talons,

I liked the body and general theme, but the idea I had wasn't clearly expressed in my first draft. My goal was to take an animal that couldn't fly, and give it armor that would let it soar. I've decided to focus on a flightless New Zealand native called the Takahē (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takahē). As I continue, I'll probably incorporate more of the blues and greens of their feathers into the design.

I’ve made some comments for everyone (Phew, that’s a lot of people). Anyway, accept/ignore as you please. Beware, it's a really long list.

Comments!

Calad: Great design! I like the gear part on the front, and the eyes. You’ve got the fly/steel part down, but I’d like to see a more prominent belly. It is a belly drum mon, after all.

Doran Dragon: I love this new guy! Great concept. I’m wondering if you could turn the eyebrows into another set fins. I recently realized that pokemon rarely have eyebrows… weird.

DougJustDoug: Rocketmon is awesome! The arms may be small, but I can still picture him belly drumming. I wholeheartedly encourage you to pursue this concept. Can’t wait for a colored version!

Magistrim: OK, both of your designs are amazing. If I had to choose, I’d pick the Frigate bird because it has a cooler concept. It doesn’t look totally steel-y yet, though. Either one you choose would be great, though!

The Steam Punk: I agree with you, the bottom is my favorite. I think it could use some fingers on its arms, to better drum its belly, too.

Quanyails: Cutecutecute! I can totally picture it drumming with its little fins. If you do decide to continue with it (witch would be awesome) I think you should add a small design to its mostly gray body. And maybe center the mouth a bit more.

Mos-Quitoxe: The left one is my favorite. The chest thing looks like a mirror to me, which would bring seven years of bad luck (to the opponent, hopefully) when he belly drums! The feet look a bit out of place with the face though. It might look more natural if both were either consistently avian or human.

Yilx: The top and right ones look the coolest right now. They all look a bit skinny, just be sure to make them fully belly drummable!

TordenOfItami: You’ve got a very complicated design going. It’s cool, but I think it would look even better if it were simplified a bit—there’s a lot going on right now.

Bernoid: One word comes to mind when I see your drawing: epic! I get how it’s steel: The wings look like daggers! It looks a bit electric right now and I’m not totally sure how that can be avoided, but I think that that’s not a big issue.

Shanimanim: I love cassowaries! Just one problem: they can’t fly. But that’s probably not a big issue. Anyway, I love the concept, but I think you could do a bit more to make it more than a regular bird. Make the feathers stick up in a pattern, or something similar. You’ve started to do this in the feet, but it could be expanded. I love the idea of gender differences, as well!

Ferraferra: Great sketch! Remember, penguins can’t fly. Maybe make his wings bigger? I think I would like the design a bit more if you eliminated the belly button as well. It creeps me out a little.

Hollymon: The helicopter mon is my favorite. He’s got such a great face! Just be sure that he’s got a good belly to drum, as it’s not visible from this angle.

Sgt.Moose: Very creepy! The eyes make it a bit ghost-y, but that’s OK. He’s got some nice fluff around his neck, and since this guy’s supposed to be belly-centric, I think it would be cool if he had a really fluffy belly like most owls do!

Dracoyoshi8: I don’t think there’s anything to say here, as I adore your design. He’s amazing! And best of all, he has wonderful potential for a cute pre-evo!

Blue Frog: I like the idea of a mechanized peacock, but currently he looks a bit like a penguin. I think it’s because he standing so upright; perhaps if he leaned forward more, he would look more like a peacock.

Canis Majoris: I love this guy! The concept is great; a walking, talking cuckoo bird! Two things that I think might help: Right now it looks like he’s wearing goggles, but I think it would be cooler if the goggles were part of his face, kind of like a raccoon. Also, it would be great if he had one prominent gear going all around his body!

Orivexes: Great idea! I like the look of the wings. I think the hands could be a bit gentler like the rest of the body, though. They’re quite skinny, and the rest of the mon is larger.

Elcheeso: Hammerbat! Yay! I love how the tail attaches to the beak! It’s belly looks plain right now, but I’m sure once you make a colored version it won’t be an issue.

Darklatias92: The top is my favorite color scheme. The blue and green blend nicely with each other. I love how the tip of the tail is shaped like the tail of the plane, as well! One small thing: I think its legs should stick out further. I think it might trip if it tries to run like that.

Harle: Wow. Coooool. This is one awesome bird. I have but one thing to say: instead of a gradient on the tail, I think you could try some sort of patterm from light to dark blue, kind of like a stained-glass window. Or, since you say it’s like a fan, maybe show the creases between spikes so it could fold together. Otherwise, amazing job!

Zigzagar: Nice idea, sort of a spoink 2.0. Although, if the pig can hover on its feet, why does it need wings? I think it would be better with one or the other.

Knickles: I’m lovin the robo chicken. Small but powerful. Now, chickens can finally fly! The neck confuses me a bit. Is it retractable, or like a bobble head, or just a normal neck? Any one of those could be cool, and I’d like to see it incorporated into a colored version!

Momochuu: An armored fruit bat, cool. I never thought of that. One part of this design bothers me: the face. It looks too human to be on this guy. I think a more canine-esque shape could better suit this mon.

Phantom99: Ooh, I like the idea. The nose reminds me of Octillery for some reason.. The floating arms are a bit out of place, I think. It works on haunter, but that’s because he a ghost. Do you think you could connect them, even with a small strand of cloud?

Andrew3391: I’m a fan of both hummingbirds! They’re small, but powerful. I like the colors of the first one, but the design of the second one (sorry for being difficult). There’s a small dot on the base of the copper bird’s wings that I think could go. It looks a lot like a robot that way, and while that’s fine, I think I’d like it better as an organic mon.

Prankster: I love the red button! Great for his belly drum. On the mini rocket, the neon green distracts me. If it were the same color as its own exhaust (white or yellow), that would be a cool similarity!

Scoopapa: I love that he’s actually a steel drum. Two birds with one stone, right? He’s a bit bugish, though. Maybe you could make his body more avian?

Cheeno: Nice idea with the belly drum self destruct button! Now it’s really a risky move! The fingers look a bit unnatural to me, though. The middle finger should be longer than the second. Also, having the same amount of fingers and toes would be nice.

Yilx: It’s a bell! Perfect for the concept! This design is amazing. I am in awe over what you have produced. Keep up the great work!

WPS: Great idea! When tweaking, I think it would be best with a more symmetrical face; in the drawing on the left it looks a bit tortured.

Arkeis: What a great little guy! My only criticism is that it’s a bit plain around the lower half. Could you add some sort of design on the saucer? Maybe a zig-zag?

Birkal: Nice one. I’m not quite sure how it could fit into the cannonball, but we must suspend disbelief in the realm of pokemon. The wings look a bit plain. Maybe a few hairs like on the tail/legs would help.

Paintseagull: What a great concept, and a cute outcome! The current beak is my favorite. As for the chest plate, I believe the birds of paradise can tuck them away, no? If it could tuck it away, it might help it look more like a flying type. Flying like that looks a bit impractical.

Zracknel: I like it! Using the cymbal as a propellor is neat. I think you could bring your creation to life with some more vivid colors in its eyes. At a glance, this guy looks a bit inanimate.

Knirp: Great idea, it can play songs with its xylophone chest! The legs have been improved, but I still think they still need some improvement. They don’t look flexible enough to reach its chest. I feel like they need an extra joint somewhere.

LimaPro643: Cool, an upside-down helicopter of sorts! I think his chest is a bit plain, maybe you could add a small design.


Thanks for listening! I’m a lot less qualified than many of the artists here so feel free to disregard my suggestions. It’s just my opinion, after all.

Please give me your honest feedback (especially about the head, which I'm not thrilled with). Any criticism is always appreciated!
Thanks!

 

[ferraferra]

This is hopefully it, but I'll upload alternate concepts to this post if I have any ideas, I'll submit once the deadlines revealed.

 

[Magistrum]

Thanks for the comments! While I agree that the frigate bird resembles Honchkrow (mainly because they have the same body type), I thought its pose in the sketch just made it too obvious. So I tried making another pose for it.

I think it's too early for me to pick between both designs because CAP 6 has not yet decided on the primary ability/stats, so in the meantime I tried to develop both ideas:

Developing the navy theme on the Frigate Bird, I decided to adapt an anchor design on the beak to justify the Steel typing, as well as giving its wings the ability to curl up into fists for performing Belly Drum (or any punch moves that the competitive aspect of CAP might fancy). The tail feathers are based on the shoulder boards on a captain's uniform.

The ValkHarpy has a slender build so I incorporated a Valkyrian Armor-like lines on the body for emphasis on Belly Drum. I also opted for the purple color scheme to give it a regal feel.

Edit: Also an alternate color scheme for the frigate bird:


As always, comments, critiques and criticisms are welcome. ;)

 

[Jewvia]

Some quick comments on a few submission. It is one in the morning at the time of writing this, I will update it when I wake up.

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@Zracknel : I really like this concept, the drum/cymbal idea really fits with the theme, and you pull it off quite nicely. I would really like to see where you go with this.

@Knirp : Your idea was one of my favourites when the submissions first opened, I thought the mallet feet was nice, but like people said, it could be a tad awkward for drumming. Now your drumsticks fix that problem, but it lacks feet to perch on. I would suggest that having both, mallet feet and drumstick arms can solve both common critiques. If you or anyone disagrees with me... It is your call, you are the artist.

@ferraferra : Your royal bird is pretty sweet, I like the steel bib and the robelike wings and tail. My only problem is that it could look a little more steely. Maybe a larger bib, or some other effect. Just that the Pokemon is Steel before Flying, but as I said to Knirp, you are the artist.

@Magistrum : I am a bigger fan of the frigate bird than he harpy, but humanoids were not always my favourite Pokemon, there were few exceptions. I thought that the idea for a frigate bird was pretty imaginative, and while I would say the Navy theme would better fit a Water type, furhering with your steel typing would help this Pokemon's case. He anchor beak was a sweet touch.

 

[SilvanRaptor]

A few comments on everyone whos submitted something so far. I hope i can help, or at least give you a little attention.

warning, looooots of text, use Ctrl+f to find your username

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@Magistrum - I really like your valkyrpie. I feel like it resembles blaziken, which, is a double-edged sword. It makes it look more like a pokemon, it also makes it look more like a fighting type. of course there isnt much justification between lucario being a steel type so i would say that isnt much of a problem. also, i would like to see a version with short legs, say, a similar proportion as weavile rather than blaziken

@ferraferra - I honestly much prefered your first drawing, it was great without all the proportion issues your current one has. this one has quite a few proportion issues that i would like to see worked on. the biggest one, is the fact that it has such a long body, looking almost as if it has two bodies conjoined on top of each other. secondly, your wings look almost more like drapes, if you look at even gamefreak pokemon, they have more realistic wings. i do suggest you look up and study real wing structure. I also would like to see you continue with your original design.

@Alakaboom - this is a really interesting design compared to alot of the others, I kind of like how its very bottem heavy. Personally, id like to see you try to make the armor more organic, rather than an outside clothing. I would also play with min/maxing proportions to help give it that pokemon look.

@LimaPro643 - Its got personallity, i like it. its simplistic, it gets the steel/flying idea across. i would try moving the torpedoes or find a different type of hand as it really doesnt look like it could safely bang those propellers upon its stomache.

@Knirp - I feel like this design has a lot of potential, and i have an image in my mind of what it could be. now this is opinion, and you dont have to follow this. but i would make the green part less of a plastic covering to more of a felt overthrow that would catch wind underneath, the body itself is a skeleton of xylophone keys. I really want to make a picture of what i mean, but im not sure im allowed.

@Zracknel - damn, thats a pretty cool harmoknight boss, but theres a few things i think need some work. I personally love the cymbal propeller, thats very clever, BUT every pokemon needs eyes (bar zubat). I bet one of the screws you have on it are eyes, but they just dont convey that. Also, im not sure that hammers work for your design, they seem out of place in the scheme of things. nah, i guess take that back. but this guys needs eyes

@paintseagull - LOVE IT. i really like birds of paridise, and that specific one is pretty damn cool. not sure im a fan of the butterknife feathers on the wings though.

@birkal - ...interesting, but it kinda looks like a bird got stuck in a giant hamster ball. I would like to see the shell be more organic to the mon, rather than an unfortunate side effect.

@Arkeis - Very cute! though i cant help feeling that the top half of the robot being attached to the saucer is really weird, but thats my opinion. over all a very solid idea, and very solid visually.

@WPS - oooooooooooh give it a phantom of the opera mask! ahem. i mean, this is a pretty cool idea, wing ears, bat wings, cymbal boobs, you could easily pull off a valkyrie look with this.

@Hollymon - I liked the bird better when i thought it was a quail. I agree with the continue with the helicoptagon. Make the tail look like rhydon's though.

@Yilx - yesssssssssssss aww yeah. this is pretty cool, it looks like its got all sorts of inspirations going on, we've got groudon wings, bird and valkyrie inspirations. overall, i love it, BUT i would still like to see what you were going for with the sketch on the far right of your first drawing of sillhouettes.

@Cheeno - Wait...does it have...lopunny ears? overall, id say theres too much going on here, it definitely needs to be simplified. also, do play with proportions, min/maxing really helps give a pokemon look.

@Scoopapa - Now this is really kinda cool, and actually similar to what i originally wanted to do. Rather than the fan/drum being the base, id like to see it being the middle of the star in the body.

@Prankster - its cute! but again, its got too much going on. I would like to remind you (and everyone for that matter), Pokemon generally stay withing 3-4 colors. Those with 4 colors usually get called overdesigned (im looking at you sigilyph). if you were to simplify this, get rid of the cardboard cutouts for the hands and reduce the color count, i would totally use it, and she'd be a pokesis for life.

@andrew3391 - FROM THE MAKERS OF CARS, CARS 2, AND PLANES, COMES A NEW HIT MOVIE! "SPACE SHUTTLES!" nah, but in all honesty, that alternate hummingbird is rocking. i really really love it and id love to see you expand upon it. or not, its pretty much perfect as is.

@phantom99 - a cloud with rockets on the sides? damn son, you cant get more cuddly and badass than that! Though, honestly, id say that for a belly drum, its going to need something solid for a body. im sure you can come up with something while keeping the cute.

@Momochuu - hmm, its kinda cool, but i would completely get rid of those eyes and just use the triangles underneath as the eyes. the wings on the tail definitely look more like propellers to me, but it still fits the concept.

@Knickles - as much as a hued at this, its actually a pretty cool design. everything here looks pretty solid, cant wait to see it finished.

@Zigzagar - alright, paint master race. its simple, cute, but it really doesnt feature the flying type well at all. I like the idea behind "when pigs fly" though. also, the jetsons's pulse propelsion from the feet doesnt really look like it fits here, though maybe as a tail? also, get rid of the square things around the nose

@Harle - that thing looks like its painful to walk, id work on that. I really love the tail fan idea. over all it just looks really nice. I dont really see it bellydrumming any time soon though.

@Darklatias92 - man, something about this just isnt hitting me right. you have a solid idea, but the creature and the plane are really just so polarized, it doesnt work. you definitely need to make the plane more organic, rather than just pants. Make it into one thing rather than two parts of one whole.

@elcheeso - I really like it, that face, that snout <3, that tail, everything looks good. though as you said, the body itself needs work, as well as the wings in my opinion, they seem very flat, paper thin. 2D is the word i was looking for. to fix this, give it some arms through the wings. also, try making a version thats a quetzalcoatlus!

@Orivexes - This guys pretty cute, I'd like to see a side view or preferably a 3/4ths view if you can, it will help us see it in a 3D world.

@Canis Majoris - Pretty cool idea, id really like to see you expand upon this idea with more stylistic cues from cuckoo clocks and such. Also, gears inside the bird really doesnt help as thats not something people are going to know, or notice, as if playing though a game.

@Blue Frog - its pretty cute, peacock with organ pipes as a tail? i could dig it.

@Dracoyoshi8 - This is a really cool design. id like to see you compact it, and play with proportions, head sizes, arm sizes, cloud sizes. cant wait to see the final product.

@Sgt.Moose - lose the electricity and plug reference on the head, makes me think electric rather than flying. I'd like to see you do some more inspiration searching, perhaps play with a few other ideas. I think it has potential though.

@Shanimanim - seriously though man, this is literally just a cassowary. you really gotta play with this stuff, at least make it cartoony rather than proportionally realistic bird. C'mon i know you can do this.

@Hailblue - an armored pegasus, cool. I'd like you to to expand upon this idea by looking up two things. Sleipnir, and Valkyries. Im sure you could find a great way to make those work to your advantage.

@Bernoid - thats electric flying. otherwise, its a pretty cool idea. i'd like to see you play with the flexible spin idea, maybe less shrapnel look and more robot chicken.

@TordenOfItami - this has wayyyyyyyy too much going on in it. really really really needs to be simplified.

@Mos-Quitoxe - (Psst, post your other designs!) Personally I like Cymbal Tripod out of all six of your ideas, i really hope you continue working on that one.

@Quanyails - ehh, im not too big of a fan, something about the body, or the fins, or the face kinda puts it off for me, as if something was off. However, your hells angel is a design worth pursuing.

@The Steam Punk - top one doesnt look like it would fly, middle doesnt look like it could use belly drum. bottom one however has alot of potential, though i would suggest finding a different type of leg than treds.

@DougJustDoug - cute, it works, looks like its very busy visually, which, as long as you only use like two colors, can work. other wise, i do suggest simplifying it.

@Calad - this is pretty cool, its wailord's distant cousin right? Those fins look like they could hardly reach it's stomache, give it larger fins. pretty solid idea, but its a little too literally a blimp for my tastes.

 

[Torkoals]

Here's an extremely rough mock-up of my idea,that I made in paint and plan on drawing with pencil and paper
http://imgur.com/KaTgvNb

Its basically a jet engine that is supposed to be able to Belly Drum. I think it incorporates the steel/flying typing pretty well

EDIT: Here's a WIP, though the final design will still be a little different from this
(Large image warning) <a href="http://imgur.com/uhRt7KG" title="WIP"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/uhRt7KG.png?1" title="Hosted by imgur.com" alt="WIP"/></a>

 

[Scoopapa]

Ey mon, check out this mon, mon.

So this is somewhat of a personal achievement, my first semi-legitimate CAP art submission! I've used software to compose music and make 3d models, but 2d art had eluded me for a while, so I'm pretty happy about this reasonably not-MSPaint-looking mon!

I gave a synopsis of this when I posted a scanned crayon sketch, but as this is probably way more visually comprehensible than that was, I will go over it again.

This is Rastabot, a sentient construct created by the ancients for a single purpose: to jam out! He rocks the Steel typing thanks to his robot status, and his body is about as literal an interpretation of a belly drummer as you can get; his arms are mallets and his body a steel drum. It achieves weightlessness by floating on the mysterious cloud that billows from its tubes. The propeller on its back provides thrust, ensuring that it can spread its message of peace, love, and music across the land. Legend has it that any human who inhales this cloud will be unable to resist the sound of its drumming!

I am certainly open to any suggestions about the concept, I am pretty amateur at 2d art so don't assume I know what you're thinking of saying! However, I think I should wait and see if this submission would even be allowed before I spend more time on it. I'd particularly like suggestions about making the cloud look better.

 

[Cheeno]

Full Colored Version.
Design Concept:
1. Flying Cyborg Pokemon (Half Mech, Half Organic)
2. Large ears for wings instead of bird wings or feathers
3. Gold plated armor for steel type (to be unique)[color can be subject to change]
4. Danger Overdrive button as a belly button in conjunction to the move Belly Drum
5. Power Arms to complement sheer power of Belly Drum (and maybe the ability of Iron Fist)
6. Round belly and arms and fingers designed for Belly Drum.

Color is not final though. here are some alternate choices

Thanks for the feed back guys.

And I don't know why the ears are being compared to Lopunny. Haha. Lopunny has very different fluffy ears.

UPDATED:
- Full Color
- Color Schemes
- Design Ideas

[HAHA I can't post new posts because I'm such a noob! I haven't read the new rules. Sorry Mods. I'll be good]

 

[JacobM]

@Zracknel , that's great but it looks too much like a rock type.

Get it? Get it? Hehehehehe.

Seriously though, that drum design is awesome, by far my favorite in the thread.

 

[CarbonTheSecond]

Well, I suppose I'll throw my hat into the ring as well this time round. Just a rough lineart for now (colors are subject to change), and since I have little-to-no experience with shading, the coloring may take a while longer. Note that all of the colors are in the darkest shade I intend to use.

The (currently unnamed) design is a sort of mix between a bell (hence the gongs for hands, hole in the center and et.) and your standard angel-based creature. The ball in the center of its chest would be the target for Belly Drum (geez, that would hurt .-.), and the direct link to its head allows for the drumming to make much more of an effect. So, I guess I'll see how this goes over and work from there. ^^

 

[WPS]

@WPS - oooooooooooh give it a phantom of the opera mask! ahem. i mean, this is a pretty cool idea, wing ears, bat wings, cymbal boobs, you could easily pull off a valkyrie look with this.

I'm a little confused with how I'd implement a valkyrie look with my current design, since aside from the wing ears (which was kind of a random add on) I don't see how it relates with my concept of psychopathic murder monkey. I can see a mask working though...

Another slightly less rough sketch.
I gave it a more gorilla shaped body, since I think that suits belly drum more, and I wnet for an asymetrical look to showcase the two different 'modes'. I also tried to emphasize the inorganic-yness, and make it look more like a metal toy. I'm a little worried the head has too many details though. aand I've just noticed its face looks like iron man's. probably oughta change that

Btw, I really like Cheeno's entry. It looks like it could use belly drum without being designed around it.

 

[Harle]

@Magistrum I have to say, not only is frigate bird vastly superior (in my opinion) to the harpy, it is far and away my favorite design of the thread. The nautical theme is very well executed in the design. I'd say this design is as close to flawless as it gets. I do think though, that the part where the red connects to the blue/black on his belly and chest could be more rigid like some kind of captain's coat or something like that.

@Knirp this is another one of my favorites. The xylophone body is brilliant, but with the addition of bones for legs I feel like the design either needs to commit more to this undead (perhaps pirate-y) theme or forego it altogether.

Also, one that appears a little underrated if you ask me, @andrew3391's hummingbird is great idea that just needs some more development.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

@Arkeis I love the idea of a flying saucer for a steel/flying pokémon, obviously aircrafts are the go-to design for that particular typing, however, I feel that the design really lacks any tie in to belly drum, which is just as central to the CAP's design as its typing. Maybe if the saucer had a musical design like a wrap around xylophone or if the whole saucer were a tambourine.

@Zracknel absolutely perfect. Don't change a thing!

 

[Quanyails]

Still sketching that alternate design (lack of Photoshop currently means I can't make the sketch less muted). Still have ways to go until I'm satisfied with my criteria; the metal pieces need to look more incorporated with the bird.

Comments:

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• Mos-Quitoxe: I'd like to see the left design colored in. :) The right design is fine--though it seems that you like genie-based designs, as I've seen from previous submissions. That's no problem, as long as the designs fit. :) Either one of them would work for the current aspects of Steel, Flying, and Belly Drum.
• Yilx: As always, gorgeous art style. D: You've done wonderfully with the metallic portions against the non-metallic ones. :) You know my thoughts on your designs, I hope. ^^;
• topher4167: My, how optimistic. :) I thank you.
• TordenOfItami: If you don't call it a wasp, it might not be considered like a Bug-type pokemon. :p The design looks fairly complex, though I think that's more personal style than you intentionally putting spriters into peril. With that in consideration, though, simplifying those bits of metal would be great for spriters. :) I would like to see a tad less flat anatomy--if you can--but that's solely for appeal rather than design.
• Bernoid: The yellow tones on the design, along with the wavy feathers(?) scream Electric-type to me over Steel. Recoloring the yellow to something else--not this current non-gold hue--would bring out Steel in design. Additionally, remember to give your design a full outline if you plan on submitting it. :) Your style is quite neat, but rules are rules.
• Alakabooom: One of the more unique designs I see in this thread. I can't pin it to an exact concept, so good for originality! It's got the technical preferences all set--shows Steel-type, Flying-type, and ability to use Belly Drum. The body looks a bit flat with those three armor pieces and the shading applied to them. o3o The dark shadow on the torso piece is next to a highlight on the waist piece--unusual unless the design is leaning back or the torso armor piece sticks out. That's a piece to modify, if you want to refine the drawing--not the design.
• Hailblue: I see it a bit less being able to use Belly Drum, but it has limbs and a stomach, so I can make the stretch. I like the idea. :D I have few concerns with the design--one is that a saddle looks unnatural on a horned pegasus, even if it is a steed, and the feathers look like leaves in their current state. How much anatomy/lighting tricks will you invest in those wings? I look forward to the refined, colored design.
• Shanimanim: The colors and lack of wings make me think of the Dark-type, though, you know, the Doduo line subverts the expectation. The armor bits on it remind me a lot of Skarmory. :/ I hate to say that it looks derivative--and I'm not accusing you of anything--but I bet people'd like more diversity between the current Steel/Flying pokemon design and the new one.
• Knirp: You know, I really like the xylophone breastplate on your parrot. :D And that is a wonderful way of allowing the CAP to use Belly Drum. It's inventive, fits the typing, and can Belly Drum, and that's all great so far!
• ferraferra: I hate to see this, but the design you're working with doesn't seem all that outstanding. It's fitting of a Steel/Flying type, though, well, there's less that differentiates it from the other birds we have. D: Pity, since the design congeals and it has personality.
• Hollymon: The first design incorporates metal with the bird well; I love the plume, lance, and breastplate. :) I hope it stands out among the other metal birds. The second design, hmm... I'm wondering about Dragon-type in it. o3o It can definitely work as Steel/Flying, though Dragon feels plausible. I had something written for your superhero design; the idea is great, and I would've loved to see a sharpened execution of it. The wind-blown cape and arm positioning could be refined. Still, I would've liked the design to make it to Final Submission. Ah, well.
• Sgt.Moose: Neato idea. Great execution. Would fit if CAP 6 got an Electric-immunity ability.
• Dracoyoshi8: Whoo, cloud-mons. :D I wondered if I'd see some. It's got whimsy to it as well as it fitting the current CAP criteria. Only concern I have is that the design could be a little better integrated than clouds with metal, though how else would you do it?
• Blue Frog: I like what you did with the peacock's tail. :D Gears and lasers(?) instead of feathers and eyes. Have him toss out a cartoon bomb while the peacock's at it. The body is a bit plain, though--I'm not sure if a metal belly and shoulder plates best demonstrate a peacock's anatomy. o3o It's nothing critical, though.
• Canis Majoris: The gears currently look plastered onto a brown bird, and I'll have to ask that anatomy and perspective be considered more when you draw. :) The gear on the bird's chest looks like it's facing the viewer, though I think it's supposed to be front on the chest, not to its side? The idea's not bad at all, and who'll bet that this pokemon gets Gear Grind?
• Orivexes: The idea's not bad--the design is great, it shows Steel, Flying, and Belly Drum. :) I'd take it if it weren't feminine. D: Necturna sorta subverted my expectations for pokemon designs based on females. Don't let my thought stop you, though. :D I think you've got a solid design and should go with it.
• elcheeso: Nice drawing, first of all. Second of all, nice design. I can't wait to see it colored. :D If I had any comments, it would be the wings--they're flat and have a pattern that is intended to resemble... swords? o3o Right? A small bit of explanation will resolve that. :) Everything else looks great!
• Darklatias92: You've got great technique and a cool design, though there are two major concerns I have that limit your design's viability. You've chosen a reptilian as the pilot of the airplane, and that alone makes me think of a Dragon-type alongside Steel- and Flying-type possibilities. The second concern is that the airplane an reptile don't combine well. It looks like a reptile in an airplane costume. :/ If you'd like, integrate the components of the idea so it looks more organic.
• Harle: I don't find appeal in the design, and I think it's the coloring of the metal bits that make it look like glass more than metal. Everything else fits the CAP's current criteria, so yeah--making the metal more evident would be my only suggestion. :)
• Zigzagar: Might I suggest using less mathematical components in your piece of art? o3o It's great for 3-D models, but it looks inorganic in 2-D. This includes making the drawing less symmetrical--or, if you want to draw it from head-on, without mirror-flipping and let small imbalances work. Beyond that, I'll start with my thoughts on your design. :)
• Knickles: Ah, a robot chicken. Where have I heard that before? :p Design works with Steel-type, Flying-type, and Belly Drum, and the airplane parts mesh remarkably well with the chicken parts. Go ahead and color it! :D
• Momochuu: It's hard to find Steel/Flying in the design, I must say. :/ The black coloring is quite overwhelming, and that, along with the axe-like tail, makes me think Dark over Steel. Could the dark portions be changed to, say, brown? o3o Bats can be that color. The wings could also have shading that indicate that they're wings rather than axehead shapes.
• phantom99: I love the Swirlix-esque face your design currently has. :D I'd like to see the rocket portions more evident rather than just the pipes facing out from it. I'd think it was a pure Flying-type without more Steel-type indication.
• Prankster: The idea feels a bit... jumbled? It feels less like one design and more like rocket pieces added on to a dame. If the rocket bits were more blended and less like costume pieces, I think you'd be able to get a nice design. The arms holding mini-rockets are what really make me veer from the design. :/ What might you be able to change those to, if you'd like, to make them more unified?
• Scoopapa: I can see Belly Drum and the Steel typing, though Flying feels a little stuck-on. Is the main drum a turbine? If so, that'd do a nice job of incorporating Flying into it. :) Otherwise, the pipes that emit smoke could be more than additions to the drum. The concept itself works, especially with what we've confirmed with the CAP so far. :) I like the colors, stylization, and details of it.
• Cheeno: I thought of Lopunny immediately from the proportions and long ears. Wish I could have that stop affecting my thoughts on the design. D: I think the design is well-integrated and shows all of the criteria the CAP has. Is it just me, or do the white portions of the new drawing have light outines? Is that intentional? o3o
• WPS: Hmm. o3o You've got a nice concept there--Belly Drum with a flying cymbal monkey makes sense. Placing metal dishes on its chest is a bit... awkward, in my opinion. Maybe they could be just props or the wings? Anywhere but the chest. X.x
• Arkeis: Fits Steel, Flying, and Belly Drum. A UFO resembles a percussion instrument, as an added aside! The design also nicely integrates robots/aliens and UFOs. :D It's also delightfully charming.
• birkal (Has your name always been lowercase?): Cannonball is new, though I've browsed through quite a few metal birds, and your metal bird is another one. The cannonball stands out, but the rest of it is quite 'eeh' as an outstanding design. :/ Nothing against the design, which I think stands fine. :)
• paintseagull: Ooh, a metal bird that works more than the typical one. I like the explanation for Belly Drum and how nicely the design works. I just wish it had a little more 'wow'. D: I like it a lot and would definitely vote for it.
• Zracknel: Oh, that cymbal-like fan is so clever! :) If it weren't for the fact it's such a literal interpretation of the givens, I'd guarantee it'd be on my vote. The idea is great, the design is great, and the execution's great. Something that's not a guarantee is not an explicit 'no', though. :) No criticism.
• Magistrum: Hmm, your first design would be the one I like more--I don't see as much Steel-type for the second. Granted, the anchor is the only thing I have that draws the bird to Steel. o3o Otherwise, The coloring and concept may imply Water as a typing. That'll be good if the CAP gets a watery ability. :p
• Torkoals: A turbine works. :) Fits all of the criteria in terms of concept and design, though technical qualities could be improved. Make the drawing more symmetrical or asymmetrical (I prefer the latter), as it's currently intending symmetry but is unbalanced.
• CarbonTheSecond: The drawing you have is unusual. o3o I think you've got quite a few curves in the design that makes it confused and strange. The wings and bell in particular have defined shapes, which is strange for objects I would consider more smooth. I can't say if I like the idea or not, since the design is quite eldritch.