CAP 35 - Part 4 - Primary Ability Discussion

[Da Pizza Man]

Bulletproof: Originally this was my top choice, and while other options have grown on me more, I still think this has plenty of merit to it. I disagree with Agile Turtle's comment about the ability being potentially anti-concept, as there really aren't any Pokemon that we are suddenly able to beat with this typing that our typing would imply otherwise. Almost every relevant Fighting-type in the tier is a physical attacker who couldn't care less about Bulletproof, and the only relevant Fighting-type in the tier that runs a special attacking set, Iron Valiant, doesn't even run fighting-type coverage on those sets. Furthermore, I think that solidifying our matchup into Gholdengo, as well as easing our matchups into other threats such as Darkrai (Who often runs a fair number of moves that are blocked by this) is a very solid benefit and a reason to consider this. I also heavily disagree with Imw0rstadP0keM0n's comment about how Poison-types would switch to Sludge Wave, as it's a significantly worse move than Sludge Bomb, and I really don't think they are going to opt for a worse move just for this one match-up in most cases due to the opportunity cost.

Misty Surge: This ability is a pretty big a double-edged sword. On one hand, not only does it let us completely shit on pult, but it's also a very strong supportive option that I think will definitely secure ourselves a spot on teams. On the other hand, going with this ability does have a pretty big downside in that we aren't really going to be able to spread Paralysis as well as we would want with our typing. However, I personally think that the pros here outweigh the cons, and I think that this would be a very cool option to pursue, especially in a metagame where there's so much status spreading and few ways to really deal with it for a lot of teams.

Water Bubble: I'm very concerned about the strength of this ability, and I think that unless we gimp ourselves offensively during the stats stage (Which is admittedly a route we can go down, but is not one that we like), then it's fairly likely that going with this ability is just going to turn us into a breaker, as our typing synergizes extraordinarily well with Water-type coverage (Which we can't exactly not give this thing, considering that Tera Blast is a move), and the boost Water Bubble gives to said coverage is insanely strong.

Grass Pelt: Quite frankly, this ability is useless on CAP35. Grassy Terrain teams are very much struggling in CAP (Rillaboom has an 18.75% win rate in CAPPL, which is abysmal), and even if we were to look past this, we're not really going to be fitting that well on a hyper offense playstyle when our job here is to be a wall. It doesn't help that many of the things that we would try to cover on these types of teams are already dealt with by mons that are run fairly often on these types of teams.

 

[StarFalcon555]

Going to throw my hat in the ring for Fluffy.

Fluffy is a really interesting ability in that it plays to our typing's strengths while also playing into our contradiction. Fluffy reduces the damage a Pokemon takes by contact moves in half, but in return, it makes said Pokemon weak to Fire-type moves. Electric/Normal's two weaknesses, Ground and Fighting, are comprised almost solely of physical attackers, which have a lot of physical attackers. Notably, this ability would greatly improve CAP 35's matchup against Great Tusk, which has both of these STABs, as long as said Great Tusk is running Headlong Rush instead of EQ. It also improves our matchups into Zamazenta and physical Iron Valiant, as well as other physical attackers like Rillaboom, Roaring Moon, and Dragonite, while also letting CAP35 act as a U-turn and Knock Off absorber, as both of those moves are contact moves. On paper, this seems incredibly strong... which is where the weakness to Fire moves comes in. Fire types are extremely common in this metagame, with Hemogoblin being a top tier threat and Iron Moth, Moltres, Cinderace, and Skeledirge all being notable threats. As dex pointed out above, adding a weakness might not be the most desirable thing considering Electric/Normal was specifically chosen because it's an extremely neutral type, but I have a couple of points against this:

1) As stated earlier, Fluffy essentially neutralizes our weakness to physical Ground- and Fighting-type attacks, which means we still maintain an overall neutral type profile

2) Something I didn't know about Fluffy until doing research for this post was that the reduced damage from contact moves and the weakness to Fire-type moves cancel each other out if a Fire-type move that makes contact is used. As stated earlier, the most threatening Fire-type in the metagame is Hemogoblin, whose Fire-type attack of choice is Flare Blitz... which makes contact. So we still end up maintaining a neutral matchup against Hemogoblin!

While we still maintain a weakness to Fire-type special moves, which are a lot more common, as well as special Fighting- and Ground-type moves, which are also fairly common, this typing is heavily geared towards being a special wall. This Ability plays into that by encouraging us to focus on our special bulk without leaving us too weak on the physical side. It also helps us slot into teams - bulky Water-type walls like Cresceidon and Arghonaut are fairly common in CAP, and a Fluffy CAP35 would love partnering with them to alleviate the Fire weakness! All in all, Fluffy is a really cool ability that opens up a lot of intriguing avenues for us and fits very well with our role and typing :333

Other abilities I really like are Regenerator, Rough Skin/Iron Barbs, and Magic Bounce!

 

[Amamama]

I really like Dexs categorization of abilities into meta defining/strong Spectra.
I feel it could be a bit better even, by grouping abilities by meta defining/role defining so here is my take on it.

The following table should probably be an alignment chart, but I think you can find all of these Abilities somewhere on a spectrum between role defining and role agnostic as well as in a spectrum between meta warping and meta agnostic. As I said, this would be better represented if the options where categorized more gradually. There clearly is a distinction between something like Immunity and Good as Ghold or even Magic Guards, so I’ve tried to rank them within the category by how much power budget they require.
In reality, this does not reflect the power of an ability in a vacuum and isn't meant to perfectly measure how much of our power budget would go towards any ability, nor is it objective. That said I think we can at least approximate how much a given ability will cost us compared to another, by looking at their placement in these categories an ability that is both role and meta agnostic is likely fairly low impact and would afford us with more Power later than one that is meta warping and defines the Pokemons role entirely.
At the same time these abilities would likely give us the clearest picture of where we're taking 35.

	Role Defining (These abilities dictate a large part of the role of cap 35)	Niche Defining (these abilities solidify a certain niche for the mon but do not necessarily define its role)	Role Agnostic (these abilities do not strongly relate to any more specific role or niche than "wall with typing", instead focusing on improving other aspects of 35)
Strong Meta Defining Impact (These abilities create a unique position for CAP35, which likely has a strong impact on the meta)	“Magic Bounce”, “Unaware”, Drizzle, “Prankster”, (“Magnet Pull”)	“Neutralizing Gas”
Limited Meta Defining Impact (These abilities have a tangible but limited impact on the meta for the given Role as they offer valuable team building options, but compete with other Pokémon who offer similar utility)	Poison Heal, Corrosion Misty Surge, Grassy Surge, Scrappy, Cloud Nine/Air Lock	Magic Guard, Regenerator, Good as gold, “Water Bubble”, Purifying Salt, Parental Bond, Static/Flame Body/Effect Spore Poison Point, Toxic Debris, (“Perish Body”) Sticky Hold, Mold Breaker, Pressure, Serene Grace, Natural Cure (Immunity), (Water Veil), (Shield Dust), (Shed Skin)	Rough Skin/Iron Barbs
No strong Meta implications (These abilities are geared towards improving the kit of the Mon without having Implications on what it does on a Team)	(Harvest), (Grass Pelt)	“Fur Coat”, Fluffy, (“Stakeout”), Intimidate, Bulletproof,	Electromorphosis, Aroma Veil

I’ve also put those abilities in parentheses, that I believe are not going to be good options on the Mon bc they are outclassed by other abilities and spend too little of the power budget, leaving a large gap to fill with stats or moves.
Analogous to this I put abilities in quotation marks, which I believe could have an unhealthy impact on the Mon or the meta.
Maybe a short explanation why I consider abilities for the unhealthy category

Unaware, Magic Bounce, Prankster, Neutralizing Gas:
I’m kinda on the fence with these three. I feel we could keep these in line, but they are a tightrope to walk.
Anyone who has played OMs with an abundance of good magic bounce and unaware mons, knows how annoying and constricting these mons can be. And neutralizing gas is so volatile with its effects on any meta, that it’s hard to predict where it goes. All of these abilities do have merit and would give 35 a unique place in the meta in some way or another. Of the 4 I think magic bounce is the hardest to balance around, but even here I’d be intrigued on where we could take it.

Magnet Pull is in a weird spot where I simultaneously think it’s either going to be an absolutely unhealthy addition to the meta and or be really bad on our Mon. The three main Steels are either immune to our Stabs or ignore Trapping or both (Libra and Gholdengo) or are Kingambit and aside from the metal birds we don’t match up particularly well into any other steel, which to me implies kinda the worst possible predisposition for a Steel Trapper

Perish Body and Stakeout are in the same boat, where they would either end up uncompetitively powerful as perish trapper and wallbreaker or end up inconsequential on CAP 35, depending on how much we would be leaning in on them.

Water Bubble has merit but in my eyes it’s just adding too much, without creating a cohesive whole

Any of the Abilities in parentheses I think are too gimmicky or too situational/outclassed by better options and leave too much of our power budget untouched.

All abilities listed here, that have no other notation, I’d be fine with having them on 35.

 

[Full_Korbe]

I am not sold at all on most resistance / immunity abilities, except for Electric immunities, which sound nice but nothing particularly interesting and Misty Surge, which is very on point concept-wise: no status is a double-edged sword but seeing how Toxic can be a really danger to CAP35 and how many Pokemon we naturally want to tackle on will lean on Burn, there is no question that it is going to be useful. The huge middle finger sent to Dragapult & Raging Bolt is also great as we already checks them through our typing... which is pretty rare.
I also entirely agree that we can make progress even if we can't really spread status. Hyper Fang, pivoting, Knock Off etc. can make up for that pretty handily.

Magic Guard, Magic Bounce, Poison Heal and Regenerator are abilities that will work for us, even if it is eating a lot of our power budget. I am not a big fan because they are generically good and not really interesting, but we can't really go wrong without. I think out of them, Poison Heal and Regenerator are my favourite as our typing is pretty vulnerable to residual damages, so having a way to mitigate that is great.

Aroma Veil is cool, disruptive moves are a common way to stop walls from doing something else than taking hits. Once again, we cannot go wrong with that but it less powerful and will give more room for the rest, should we wish to take this route.

I want to give a mention to Compound Eyes because a lot of ways we can make progress are actually not perfectly accurate: while the most common usage will be firing off Thunder with 91% Accuracy (which, while good, is not enough to push us to an offensive role), Super Fang, Circle Throw / Dragon Tail and most status move are slightly accurate and Compound Eyes would bump these to 100%. It is a reliable ability that is often seen in offensive cases, so it goes double here. It is definitely on the lower end of the power level but I would still rate it slightly above things like Intimidate or Rough Skin though).

 

[Superperson00]

Paralysis spam has had discussion on the discord as a method for CAP 35 to make progress, and I’d like to talk about three abilities that could achieve this on a spectrum of viability.

(Strong) Prankster would have an incredibly powercrept presence in the meta if not checked and regulated properly. Priority twave and recovery can be frustrating on their own, and moderate extensions to CAP 35’s movepool can introduce secondary support roles as a priority screens setter with a slow pivot, or priority removal. However, these hyper offence and hazard control deviations from the wall role could be considered more viable than the primary intention of the mon itself depending on their effectiveness.

(Limited) Serene Grace is a method to distribute status faster through Discharge and Body Slam without having to dedicate movepool to Glare, Nuzzle or Twave. Serene Grace is very helpful for this purpose but has little to offer beyond it, which reduces its viability compared to other options previously discussed here. I think SG still warrants discussion if we decide to save our investments into BST and movepool further down the line.

Parental Bond is not as immediately overbearing as Prankster, but can offer a little more than Serene Grace if handled appropriately. Although PBond tends to be banned on offensive mons for valid reasons, it may have interesting interactions with CAP 35 that merit further discussion. There is an increased likelihood of paralysis via Body Slam/Discharge than Serene Grace, which by the bare minimum makes PBond more appealing for this singular role. Rapid Spin now allows for a +2 boost, although I have trouble seeing if this has any viable implications. I believe the Dragon Tail interaction can take this ability from limited to overbearing upon the meta, and while very interesting, risks powercreeping Arghonaut. Update: No interaction here with PBond.

 

[Samirsin]

A little bit late but want to express my point of view

I will talk about differentiating this CAP from other available Pokémon, and how the ability can "destroy" the concept.

CAP's first mission is to explore the OU metagame, so what is the point on using something we know will work because its has been proven before or is inherently good (static, magic bounce, for example), we'd be just buffing someone already good.

I still fear that any good ability will make this Pokémon good, meaning that the typing will mean nothing in the end even though that is our concept.

And here is the thing, I don't have any solutions for that conundrum, which some may say "then why post?" and also probably "it's late", but better said than not.

 

[AzothBend]

Parental Bond is not as immediately overbearing as Prankster, but can offer a little more than Serene Grace if handled appropriately...There is an increased likelihood of paralysis via Body Slam/Discharge than Serene Grace, which by the bare minimum makes PBond more appealing for this singular role.

Just want to make a quick point before people make the wrong conclusion. Parental Bond does not have an increased likelihood of Discharge paralysis versus Serene Grace; the odds are 0.3 + 0.3 * (1 - 0.3) = 51% for Parental Bond versus 2 * 0.3 = 60% for Serene Grace. This is because status can generally only be inflicted once per move turn. The same logic would apply to flinch.
This don't account for moves whose secondary effects are independent, like the example of Rapid Spin's speed boost. It also doesn't account for situations where hitting once versus twice would actually matter: the opponent is holding a berry, the opponent is behind substitute, the opponent has Stamina, etc.

 

[Admiral_Stalfos19]

You know what? I'ma be insane and suggest Innards Out

This is a very unique ability that inflicts damage to a Pokemon that KOes the wielder equal to the amount of HP that wielder had at the time it took the attack. This can make opponents think twice before clicking their Ground or Fighting attacks, and is especially strong against mons that had already set up a Swords Dance, Nasty Plot etc.

Pyukumuku made poor use of Innards Out... and that's a severe understatement. Not only did it have a low HP stat, but it was also given high Defense stats in an attempt to offset that low HP, which would only make the attempt to get a decent Innards Out proc even harder. High HP but low defense stat mons have also been proven to fail as viable walls, with examples such as Wigglytuff, Wailord and Guzzlord. However, a high HP backed by one solid defensive stat had seen success in OU, with Dondozo being a prominent physical and Blissey being a prominent special wall respectively. Deliberately tanking either the Defense IVs or the Sp. Def IVs to 0 would be unorthodox, but it would still be a viable way of making the most use of Innards Out while still being a solid special or physical wall.

...

I'll also take a brief minute to talk about some other abilities. Green indicates the abils I like, Red the ones I don't and Yellow the ones I could go either way on.

I'll start with Poison Heal, which I wanted to suggest yesterday, but then someone stole it from me last second. True, we already have a couple of Poison Healers that see use in Gliscor and Snaelstrom, which CAP35 would have to compete for a spot on the team with. However, what would set CAP35 apart is its immunity to Hex, which the other two would take double damage from, and not appreciate do to their lower Sp. Def stats.

Parental Bond is an insane suggestion, albeit in a good way that works in CAP35's favor. Double healing from Parabolic Charge, a -2 attack drop from Chilling Water, effectively getting an old-school Rapid Spin and an Agility at the same time, and 2 fishes for paralysis within the same turn from Discharge, just to name a few. True, Serene Grace would be more adept at spreading status than PBond would, but that's only because you can only status each specific mon once, as AzothBend mentioned. Otherwise PBond would be the superior option, hands down.

Just so I can keep the abils that start with P together, I'll talk about Pressure next. It wouldn't be bad for stalling out Focus Misses from Gholdengo and solidifying CAP35's match-up against it as a result, but I'd rather see the Speed stat that CAP35 ultimately winds up with first. Pressure would be more effective on a CAP35 that outspeeds Gholdengo, since its forced to fish for paras with Discharge due to Ghold's immunity to status attacks in general.

Next up, Regenerator. Don't get me wrong; Regen's a solid choice to give CAP35 as it stands now. But it's also a solid choice on literally any mon that could ever come into existence. Hell, even Mienshao used Regen for a brief stint back in the day, and that's an offensive Pokemon.

Mold Breaker, I'm still iffy on. True, getting to Glare Ghold and not having to fish with Discharge is nice, but it feels too winmoar imo. The only way Ghold stays in is if it runs Focus Miss, which Pressure CAP35 would be better suited at combatting.

...I'll be honest, I legitimately have no idea what Magnet Pull actually achieves, here. Equilibra already wants to take CAP35 1-on-1, and autowins that match-up in particular, whereas Gholdengo and Kitsunoh can still bail on CAP35 thanks to their additional Ghost typing. Those are the only Steels that I can think off; not to mention that trapping is uncompetitive as a whole.

Finally, saving the worst for last, Water Bubble. It adds a burn immunity that we don't need (unless it winds up physical, which Electric/Normal doesn't exactly scream), a Fire resist which is anti-concept, and a reason to Tera Water which is even more anti-concept. Long story short, Water Bubble is just straight up dumb. Although this is coming from the guy that was crazy enough to sub Innards Out, so think what you will :/

 

[mark6870]

Formally submitting Volt Absorb and Static.

As for the question,
How can CAP35 use its ability to facilitate its role and warrant a spot on a team?


To summarize my previous post, these abilities help mitigate CAP35's potential to be a momentum sinks. Volt Absorb blocks Volt Switch and allows us to potentially heal off chip damage without spending a turn using a recovery move.

Static is a much more interesting option. Ground and Fighting are more often physical types, and Static forces these mons to take a risk when attacking CAP35.
Pokemon like Kitsunoh and Dragapult are mons that we potentially check and are very reliant on their Speed. Static dissuades Pult from using U-turn to keep up momentum and dissuades Kit from even attacking in the first place.

 

[InfiStudios]

Hi, I want to poke my head in and offer some opinions on some of the submissions I've been seeing:
- Love love LOVE the concept of Poison Heal - there's so much potential for fun strategy there, and the ability to dissuade setters like Glimmora from laying down Toxic Spikes could be super valuable. And there's a whole thing with moves that this ability really allows for (that I won't go into bc I don't want to poll-jump; sorry if this little detour breaks that rule) that could be really fun to see in action.
- Fluffy might be my frontrunner right now, honestly. It dovetails so well with our concept's focus on typing and interacts in a super fascinating way with tera - it's one of a couple abilities that involves a weakness that supersedes typing, and i think that sort of fixed weakness might be super fun to work with and around (does Fluffy grant a fixed weakness? i should know this).
- Pressure immediately caught my eye - i think there's a lot of value in an ability that forces someone to split their attention between PP and the opposing Pokemon to a greater extent than they normally would!!

 

[Explosion Badger]

Gonna argue against a few abilities that I feel are undesirable for us, starting with:

Fluffy: Some might think I'm about to talk about how Fur Coat is in most scenarios a better ability than Fluffy. While this is true, I think the more immediate issue with this ability is how it gives us a Fire weakness, and how that really conflicts with CAP 35's goals right now. One of the main benefits of picking Electric/Normal as a typing is the ability to wall Gholdengo's STABs, which points us in the direction of being a special wall. While Fluffy doesn't mess with this interaction, what it does mess with is our ability to take on a LOT of other special attackers in the tier. Chuggalong, Iron Moth, Mollux, Dragapult, Moltres and Glowking are all examples of mons that we might be able to deal with without Fluffy, but with it, our matchup into them potentially becomes a lot more of a hassle. Even when considering the physical side, Fluffy doesn't stop a good chunk of moves that would be helpful to stifle, such as Pyro Ball and Earthquake. the potential benefit just seems far too small given how it makes our matchup into a lot of other mons worse.

Parental Bond: I've seen some talk about this in the discord, and truth be told, I don't know how to feel about it. The ability to increase the chance of secondary effects activating is nice, but Serene Grace practically does the same but better in most scenarios. Parental Bond's main advantage over Serene Grace is of course, the damage and second hit, but seeing as we're a wall, it's difficult to see how we take advantage of these aspects overall. I'm more than down to change my opinion if someone can give me a good reason as to why it's good, but for now, I don't see it having good or interesting reasoining.

 

[chartung17]

Deliberately tanking either the Defense IVs or the Sp. Def IVs to 0 would be unorthodox, but it would still be a viable way of making the most use of Innards Out while still being a solid special or physical wall.

It's not unorthodox at all; Innards Out was banned from Balanced Hackmons because it allowed min def Chansey to take out just about anything that had a physical attack. I think it would be difficult to make a mon where Innards Out is good but not overpowered.

Static is a much more interesting option. Ground and Fighting are more often physical types, and Static forces these mons to take a risk when attacking CAP35.

Most Ground-types (and most mons that carry physical Ground coverage) run Earthquake, so this is really only relevant for Fighting and the very few mons that learn Headlong Rush.

 

[mark6870]

It's not unorthodox at all; Innards Out was banned from Balanced Hackmons because it allowed min def Chansey to take out just about anything that had a physical attack. I think it would be difficult to make a mon where Innards Out is good but not overpowered.


Most Ground-types (and most mons that carry physical Ground coverage) run Earthquake, so this is really only relevant for Fighting and the very few mons that learn Headlong Rush.

I was mainly thinking of Great Tusk and then other phyting types when making that post. My fault for not specifying

 

[Turtwigswiththrohs]

Hi I'm kinda very new to all this so I don't really have much reasoning for anything that hasn't been said but I would just like to list a few that I support

Innards Out
Electromorphosis
Misty Terrain

I think all of these abilities fill niches that either their original pokemon used/filled poorly or could suit the current metagame well right now just wanted to list a few I liked :)

 

[Rysachi]

Hello, just going to add some extra thoughts to some already suggested abilities to give some opinions of them from a slightly different angle than just ladder:

Abilities that I really like so far suggested:
Magic Bounce: - An ability we don't see too often outside of niche picks such as Hatterene. Also really gives a good niche as a hazard deter which helps with teams that don't want to rely on Spinners but also helps against hazard stack + Gholdengo teams.

Parental Bond: - Another cool ability that we don't see too often, to a lesser extent of Serene Grace this ability can give boosted odds of Paralysis from moves such as Discharge which can give a useful niche over Thunderbolt especially on a wall where damage output isn't the main focus of the Pokémon.

Innards Out/Rough Skin: - Both are slightly unique and gives some competition over Static Pokémon such as Zapdos whereby this Pokémon can damage contact based physical attackers overtime rather than status.

Abilities I'm not so keen on:
Water Bubble: - I think the concept of the ability as a whole is nice but on a Pokémon designed to be Holder Of Few, I think the typing alone is a nice balance of this without needing to add another resistance to fire. On top of this having a wall being immune to both paralysis naturally and burn though ability is somewhat unnecessary.

Grassy Terrain: - Similar reasons to above in that the typing alone is already a good fit for Holder Of Few and having an inbuilt ability that reduces the power of some ground moves, most commonly Earthquake isn't necessary. Also even less of a fan of this over Water Bubble due to the natural recovery of Grassy Terrain especially if we potentially plan on giving it more unique moves such as Parabolic Charge for recovery, we don't need a wall that can constantly recover up each turn and become somewhat unkillable.

Regenerator/Poison Heal: - Personally think both of these abilities are extremely strong on a wall and best saved on Pokémon that either have offensive presence or lack recovery in their moveset which I feel may restrict the movepool process of this Pokémon making for a less exciting and more one dimensional pool which we've already seen in the last couple of CAP's. Also just feel we already have enough meta defining Poison Heal Pokémon especially in the likes of Gliscor.

Drizzle: - Whilst sun is a strong weather this Generation, I don't feel like we need to buff rain to keep up if not surpass sun with rain already having good abusers such as Archaludon/Basculegion and already do well enough with Pelipper as a drizzle pivot.

Bulletproof: - I'm not as against this ability as the ones above, but also at the same time I think this Pokémon will already do a good enough job at being a check to Gholdengo and forcing to run Focus Blast is already doing good enough for Cap 35's role in the meta. We also already have a good Bulletproof CAP in the meta currently with Equilibra so don't think we need to add another to the mix.


Abilities I'm not certain on yet:
Fluffy: - A unique concept to Holder Of Few whereby we are adding another fire type weakness to this typing making it an even balance of 3 weaknesses to 3 resists (and an extra ghost immunity.) On the contrary though, we'd have to be careful on the stat and movepool distribution whereby we don't make a Pokémon that receive 1/2 damage from contact moves too unkillable with potential access to recovery or a good natural defense stat.

Prankster: - A slightly similar concept to Serene Grace and Parental Bond whereby this Pokémon can get added priority on moves such as Thunder Wave, Recovery Moves and other potential filler status moves. Just have to be careful on what moves are allowed on this Pokémon and to not make it too strong with giving it good well rounded stats but also access to dual screens or Parting Shot as example making this Pokémon not only hard to kill but also a really strong enabler.

 

[quziel]

Hello, I am going to post in support of several abilities today.

Electromorphosis is one of a class of abilities that turn bulk into damage, and unlike some others of the same breed (notably Berserk), this damage cannot run away. We've already seen Bellibolt get use in OU on the basis of Electromorphosis making it very difficult to trade with, as well as Toxic being a busted move per usual. This ability may lean a bit towards tanking rather than walling, but even uninvested stats start to hit really really hard once you have a 2x multiplier. Regardless it forces us to invest very heavily into defenses as it requires moving second and living the previous hit.

Opportunist is perhaps overly targeting Chuggalong, but the ability to match any CM/BU/Clang Soul style sweeper's defensive boosts is huge, and is functionally as good as Unaware vs. them, while being limited vs a lot of other mons. Specifically this ability lets us switch into and wall Chuggalong, Hemogoblin, Victory Dance Necturna, Venomicon (Stamina), Raging Bolt, and assuming Tera, Zamazenta. This also can situationally help us effectively win the 1v1 against NP Gholdengo, though that assumes we live its Focus Blast.

-----

I'd also like ot post in support of basically all of the contact-punishing abilities.

Static, Flame Body, Effect Spore, Rough Skin all take us from a mon that beats Pivot Dragapult 1v1 into a mon that makes Pivot Dragapult unable to effectively spam U-turn. This is fairly valuable, though I admit its quite narrow. There's ultimately not a ton more U-turn spammers that we want to switch into present.

Status resistant abilities such as Purifying Salt, Natural Cure, Shed Skin, and Thermal Exchange / Water Veil all seem fairly valuable here. Our typing suggests that we're going to be switching into status move spammers fairly often, notably Cresceidon and Dragapult, and the ability to shrug off tick damage is really nice. Practically speaking we're already immune to para, so adding on a burn immunity too is really nice. Purifying Salt is probably the highest power option here, and means we continue to check ghosts even after tera'ing to a Water-type/Grass-type/etc., which is really really strong. I'm a huge Shed Skin fan, though I accept its the most unreliable and weakest of these options.

 

[thundergoos]

Hey all, just chiming in to give some thoughts.

Starting off with some abilities I like:

Electromorphosis: This is a really interesting one that I think allows 35 to function, to a lesser extent, as a reactive tank in addition to its primary role as a wall. Absorb a hit and hit back a lot harder. Bellibolt is the only Mon we’ve seen this ability on, and Belli fills a defensive role in the lower tiers. I’d wager there’s a lot we can learn about how to apply a similar kit up here in CAP, especially with (I assume) a higher BST and some additional utility in the move pool.

Parental Bond: Similarly to the above, this is an ability we’ve only ever seen on one Mon, and that shit was bonkers broken. Parental Bond would be a little tricker to balance with respect to our offenses, but I really am fascinated by the utility that this ability provides. Double heals on a Parabolic Charge, a quick -2 Attack with Chilling Water (which admittedly, I’m not sure we need because of how it interacts with our Ground weakness, but it sure as hell is funny), a +2 Speed with Rapid Spin (we probably wouldn’t get this either to be fair, since we don’t necessarily need that crazy of speed as a wall and RS could bloat the utility side of the move pool a bit; just mentioning RS here as an example), and of course, the increased para chance for Discharge and Body Slam. The list goes on. This is a really cool ability that we’ve only ever seen on a broken offensive monster, so applying it purely for utility purposes on a defensively-oriented Mon is really compelling to me.

Fur Coat: This one is a pretty simple ability and admittedly doesn’t really do a lot besides increase our natural bulk, but for a lower-power option that frees up more power budget for later stages, I think this is one of the better options in that category. It seems we’ve sort of reached a consensus that based on the list of threats our typing implies we match up against, we’re probably going to want to be specially-biased in terms of our bulk stats. Fur Coat frees up a little BST by compensating for our physical bulk, whilst also not adding the nuisance of a fire weakness (which also is anti-concept I feel, as in order to maintain the Holder of Few element we’ve landed on, I personally don’t feel we should be messing with the type interactions of our resistances and weaknesses). This is a lower power option, but it’s one that is simple, highly serviceable, and would help us streamline later stages.

Abilities I would accept if slated but am not that gung-ho on:

Magic Bounce: Magic Bounce is one of those abilities that’s just always good on whatever it’s on. The pseudo-status immunity (save for rolls on damaging moves like Sludge Bomb), the immunity to Taunt and Encore, and of course, the hazard deterrent are all great. For this reason though, I do feel that MB is a pretty high power option that could lead to some cuts in our later stages, which gives us a little less freedom. That said though, it’s still a damn good ability would definitely give 35 a solid reason to be chosen for a team slot.

Regenerator: We all know what it does. Regen is generically good and never a bad option on anything that has it. But frankly, it’s also just boring. We know exactly what it does and why it does it, so what have we to learn by picking it? It would definitely service 35’s kit, so if Regen got slated and chosen I wouldn’t be mad about it, I just think there are much better, far more interesting options we could go for.

Misty Surge: This one is interesting in that it provides a lot of utility not just for 35 but for the team as a whole, which inherently gives us a cool niche. The status immunity is a really great boon for a wall to have, the only things that gives me pause are the added resistance to dragon (messes with our resistance profile, which I don’t think is pro-concept) and the double edged sword of removing our own ability to dish out status, namely paralysis. Still, there are benefits to MS, can’t deny that. It certainly makes us a profound fuck-you-Dragapult button, which is pretty funny.

Bulletproof: Bulletproof would definitely serve 35 well in that it eases certain matchups we really want to be as successful as possible in (Gholdengo with Focus Blast, for one) and cushions others for an added benefit (e.g. Darkrai, who commonly uses a lot of moves that Bulletproof blocks). There’s also the added benefit of preserving our immunity to Shadow Ball even after Tera, which is a neat and useful element. I wouldn’t be mad at all if this got slated, I just prefer others a little more. Bulletproof would definitely be a simple and effective route for us, should we opt for it. No issues with it from me.

Poison Heal: I mean, look. Poison Heal is one of the best defensive abilities in the game, there’s no beating around the bush with that one. The passive recovery is incredible, and provided that the Toxic Orb has already activated, it allows 35 to function as a one-time Knock absorber. This is all undeniably great. But if I’m honest, it’s also just boring to me. We’ve done this before with Snaelstrom, we’ve seen how effective PH is on both the s ail and Gliscor. We don’t necessarily learn anything new here, in my mind. There’s also the question of power budget, since PH is a very strong ability, which disincentivizes me from advocating for it. There’s no denying it’s a very powerful ability that would absolutely serve 35 well, I’m just not terribly enthused about it.

Abilities I definitely don’t like:

Grassy Surge: This one I am absolutely a hard no on, probably the hardest no out of all of these. The primary reason for this is that it augments our Ground weakness, which is heavily anti-concept and, at least for me, a huge no no. Hard pass.

Water Bubble: Man, I don’t know. This is a really, really strong ability with some powerful effects. I won’t deny the burn immunity is nice, but at this point I have to ask: what is with this fascination with giving 35 tools to circumvent its Ground weakness? I’ve already established that I think that’s anti-concept, but even outside of that, it’s okay for a Mon to have weaknesses, guys! Even to a type as dominant and ubiquitous as Ground. Historically, it hasn’t stopped other Mons from being effective. Take Heatran for instance. Yes, it ran Air Balloon often, but it ran Leftovers, Boots, Rocky Helmet, and the odd berry often too. The 4x Ground weakness didn’t stop Heatran from being a dominant force in SS OU (where Ground was about as prevalent as it is today), much less prior generations. In SV, look at Iron Moth. It opts for Tera Grass commonly, but it also doesn’t need to Tera to be effective — it’s one of the most dangerous Mons out there! Even outside of this, Water Bubble is just a generally very strong ability that would be tricky to balance. It eats into our budget, muddles with our concept, and would likely make things more challenging for us down the line. Hard pass.

Purifying Salt: Generically good and extremely powerful. Has funny interactions with our Normal type (and a prospective Tera type too), given the added ghost resistance. But this is just such a massive constraint on power budget that I can’t argue for it. I don’t think we should go this route.

Good as Gold: If we’ve learned anything from Gholdengo, Good as Gold is a meta defining ability. In the same way as Purifying Salt, GAG is just an insanely powerful ability that eats into our power budget substantially. It would be tricky as hell to balance. Combine that with its inherent meta implications, and you get what I think is a far too dangerous route to tread here.

Drizzle: Let’s be real here, what does this even do for us? It just makes us into a rain setter, which arguably changes our role into being a partner for a specific archetype. This has no benefits on how effective 35 actually is at being wall, it just gives it a reason to be chosen for a team slot (something a lot of other abilities on this list so just as well). That aside, Drizzle is also just a very impactful ability on the meta, and I don’t think we should mess with that. Pass.

Those are the main thoughts I have! I might make another post for some of the other abilities that have been mentioned, but these are the ones that have stood out to me the most, for better or worse. Cheers! :)

 

[singaporygon]

A little bit late but want to express my point of view

I will talk about differentiating this CAP from other available Pokémon, and how the ability can "destroy" the concept.

CAP's first mission is to explore the OU metagame, so what is the point on using something we know will work because its has been proven before or is inherently good (static, magic bounce, for example), we'd be just buffing someone already good.

I still fear that any good ability will make this Pokémon good, meaning that the typing will mean nothing in the end even though that is our concept.

And here is the thing, I don't have any solutions for that conundrum, which some may say "then why post?" and also probably "it's late", but better said than not.

Thinking about this, I personally think Samirsin has a good point here, and is starting to change my initial stances on this mon.

Looking at something like Tyranitar, the ability Sand Stream didn't really remove any of Tyranitar's defensive typing flaws. It boosted its special defense yes, but the ability didn't give Ttar the benefit of a toxic immunity like a Steel, a leech seed immunity like a Grass, nor a ground immunity like a Flying, for instances.

I suggest discussing a similar thing with this mon.
We perhaps should look at its lack of defensive typing and *not* make up for this, in order to get the full effect and centered-focus of a contradictory typing for a wall.
So though I'm not completely sure about this, I'm leaning that this should remain weak to toxic, leech seed, ground types, and that ghost types can check any normal type moves it has. And whatever other typing flaws that I didn't think of.

Since there's not really an ability we can give this both boosts its defenses and also has another useful effect, like Sand Stream, then to focus on this Contradictory Typing would probably lead to more heavily of a focus on stats.

Considering what I said above, then the abilities that I think fit this and can be interesting, are from my most preferred: Parental Bond, Cloud Nine, Aroma Veil, CompoundEyes, Electromorphosis, Serene Grace, Innards Out, Contact-Punishing, and Fur Coat (for a Blissey like mon)

I'll note though that Parental Bond would most likely take up a big portion of stats power budget, but damn is this ability super cool.

 

[Docter_Peng99]

I feel Well-Baked Body might work because it not only helps against hemogoblin but also the defense raise from the ability could help cap 35 wall out some physical attakers to paralyze them and could come in handy for kingambit

 

[earthflax]

Formal 24 hour warning!!! Slate goes up in one day, so be sure to use this time to use this time to support your favorite abilities and BRUTALLY PUT DOWN others. I'd prefer to see more discussion on a broader range of abilities this last day, as I think the discussion on some of our more common suggestions has become cyclical, but that's up to y'all. Cheers!

 

[HealthGage]

No one has suggested these and I don't expect these to go anywhere but I just want to throw these two out there

Liquid Ooze

This ability is only seen on two pokemon, but I would say this has its merits. Many powerful offensive Pokémon use draining moves for recovery like drain punch, parabolic charge and more residual health regain from leech seed. All of which are detrimental to the longevity of a wall such as our own 35. While there are better abilities for us but it would be nice to be able to indirectly punish opposing mons from trying to use 35 for a quick refuel from a move such as leech seed or more detrimental drain punch.

Shell Armor

This one is pretty simple reason, critical hits are devastating for any Mon especially so for a wall. Most of the time Crits are random chance and 12.5% of the time Meowscarada lands a crit with flower trick all of the time. Shell armor removes all chance of Crit range which just in general is good for any Mon.

That's pretty much it.

 

[Korski]

One ability I think would be more pro-concept than most is Contrary (specifically in conjunction with certain not-unreasonable attacking moves that lower the user’s Def/SpD).

Apart from literally having the perfect name to go with the chosen concept, Contrary carves a clever path through the goals of this project, that of a defensive stat snowballer that uses high-BP attacks to set up and/or make progress.

Yes, you also get situational benefits vs. Landorus-T, Sticky Webs, secondary effect stat drops, and things like that (pending stats to determine which of these are actual benefits), but the main points are keeping the concept front-and-center and trying to steer this CAP into a more unique identity.

There are broad ways to approach the stats with the CAP’s current direction + Contrary, and I think the stats discussion will benefit greatly from the implications of this ability. The stats could be designed anywhere from needing a boost or two to hit high-tier benchmarks (leaning on typing-based switch-in opportunities & attacking on the switch) to only needing one boost + 3 good moves to get work done (same as a good offensive setup sweeper, except it’s also the opposite).

The moves in question are also fairly obvious to reason out, but only because there are so few legal moves that lower the user’s defensive stats (really the only way this ability applies to the CAP). I don’t really think I can propose this idea without toeing the line re: poll-jumping, apologies if I’ve crossed it. The presumption of certain moves can also be worked into stats to keep balance in focus, as usual, but still, I don’t think there’s much risk of constraining the movepool, considering the direction of the project thus far.

Finally, I think this ability would make the rest of the process more engaging and fun. There isn’t really anything especially thrilling about [well-established defensive benefit ability] here imo. If anything, with the “blah” typing approach, you’re putting more pressure on later stages to create an identity for this CAP, when ability is really the best place to set a Pokemon apart in the metagame.

 

[Rapti]

Posting to support Fur Coat, Electromorphosis and Stamina

Fur Coat and Electromorphosis case has already been established; Stamina function's similar to Fur Coat but since it needs to be triggered it should give us more leeway when it comes to BST, also nice for Dragon Darts

 

[Lightniong]

So, I haven’t been most active on CAP, but I just wanna throw out 2 abilities I really like:

Volt Absorb:I feel that this is the perfect ability for CAP 35, as the whole point of walls is to kill momentum from offensive cores, and just be as unkillable as possible, and the potential to heal from Volt Absorb attempts does both with astounding colors. Plus, it’s able to get a free turn from absorbing Volt Switch to do whatever, whether that be pivoting into another Pokémon, or doing any of those coverage moves that we decide to make it. It’s also not a broken ability, so we can be lenient with BST in the near future.

Static: Remember when I said that this has the potential to destroy Pokémon using Volt Switch and kill momentum? Well this is just that but with U-turn.This ability has the potential to be extremely crippling to offensive cores reliant on U-turn, and offensive cores that just stack up on physical attackers, as pivots, most specifically Dragapult, now are reluctant to switch into CAP 35, in fear of a paralysis that can absolutely cripple them and be just fodder for someone on CAP 35’s team to take out, and potentially you could switch CAP 35 into Pokémon like Landorus-T to cripple them. This also kinda gives free turns like Volt Switch with full paralysis, but with the non-guaranteed free turns also comes the potential free turns for it’s teammates, as now slower but more powerful Pokémon like Colossoil and Hemogoblin can use that free turn to absolutely decimate the opponent.

 

[skippergamez]

Magic Bounce is an ability I greatly support, while abilities such as Aroma Veil and Misty Terrain do block status moves, I feel like Magic Bounce is definitely the most effective and role-defining. One amazing perk of Magic Bounce is that it doesn’t interfere with typing at all. Magic Bounce allows CAP35 a spot on a lot of teams. CAP35 was already favorable to hazards but with Magic Bounce allows us to fill that small hole. Also I feel like the main hazard setters being Ground-types kinda makes MB less overwhelming.

Bulletproof I feel like CAP35’s biggest weakness is coverage, and Bulletproof allows us to focus on some specific matchups, and not an overall typechart. Also Bulletproof is very specially defensive-leaning ability, which is very supportive of CAP35’s typing at the moment.

Parental Bond is actually a really neat ability that I would love to support. I feel like people are leaning to hard into the secondary effects, but moves like Parabolic Charge and Seismic Toss would be really cool to utilize as a wall with this ability!

I also support Electromorphosis, Volt Absorb, Static, and Fluffy/Fur Coat