CAP 31 - Part 2 - Typing Discussion

[Me bad boi]

Something I haven't seen being mentionned often (at least from memory) when talking about typings is the interaction that rock types have with sandstorm. The 1,5x spdef boost is nothing to scoff at! In some cases, it really helps with the potential for defensive play with certain typings:

Rock/Flying has been mentionned a lot as a good check to flying types (like torn) and heatran. The spdef boost helps a lot in this task. Also, something that will come back often in this post, the typing doesn't have any 4x weakness, meaning that, under sandstorm, nothing really threatens the type too much on the special side.

Rock/Normal also benefits from the sand, as it has one main goal: switch in on ghosts an force progress. The boost only helps in this task against the specially oriented ghosts . This one grew a lot on me, although it's viability will be heavily linked to the viability of ghosts themselves.

Even Rock/Bug feels better under sand, as it has the least weaknesses out of the type pairings with rock. Unfortunately, it feels like the typing is kind of out of the race, as it really doesn't have much merit outside of that, but I still wanted to point it out.

In the end, I really think working with the rock typing will be the way to go, at least for me, during the voting period. The typing really has a lot of challenges and boons that seem fun to work with, a lot of things that are lacking in the non-rock typings.

 

[backslash447]

Something I haven't seen being mentionned often (at least from memory) when talking about typings is the interaction that rock types have with sandstorm. The 1,5x spdef boost is nothing to scoff at! In some cases, it really helps with the potential for defensive play with certain typings.

I didn’t consider this! For some reason it’s totally slipped my mind. I think with this in mind Rock/Flying is much more appealing. Having weaknesses to BoltBeam coverage can be mitigated pretty hard by the SpDef boost. I’m still not psyched about Rock/Ground, if only because it’s a typing that’s fairly common and tends to hold it’s users back more than it helps. I’d still like Rock/Ghost and Rock/Bug more than anything else, but I’d be more open to fully defensive options.

 

[Moomany]

Now people can argue against me if I'm wrong (I'm all about the debate) but there have been some things said about the typing Rock/Water that I think can be cleared up/some-what corrected.

The first thing is that people are saying (and technically the only thing) is the one thing the typing has going for it is defensive plays, which is true. Some are saying it's good and some are saying it's a major let down. HOWEVER, I will clear this up now. Is it not possible for this typing to also be used offensively? As I said previously, the type can play both defensively and offensively. This is both done through Diamond Storm. If CAP 31 has the right stats and right moves it can play tank and be an attacker. If you look at other water/rock types that have good attack and defense and remember how good they are in an actual game, then you can realize the potential of this typing. The argument that Water/Rock can only be used for defensive plays and only defensive plays isn't entirely correct. If you need an example, Drednaw, (Nessa war flashbacks) it is bulky and has a defensive typing, yet it can sweep any uncareful player. If we take the same approach (and Diamond Storm) then we can have more then just a bulky defensive mon.

Mod Edit: Deleted Poll Jumping (references to moves later in the process)

 

[Bloopyghost]

Short post, but I do not understand the support for Bug/Rock. Bug/Rock only resists Normal and Poison, two incredibly uncommon offensive typings in OU/CAP and is terrible offensively, Bug does not hit any of Rock's resists and is basically just Rock hard carrying Bug against Fire and Flying. Bug/Rock is woefully outclassed by Grass/Rock, which has a similarly awful defensive profile, but the Electric resist is actually usable and Grass can muscle through bulky Waters for Rock, having actual offensive synergy. I don't get why people like Bug/Rock when Grass/Rock is straight up better.

Lemme also talk about Rock/Water for a sec.

The first thing is that people are saying (and technically the only thing) is the one thing the typing has going for it is defensive plays, which is true. Some are saying it's good and some are saying it's a major let down. HOWEVER, I will clear this up now. Is it not possible for this typing to also be used offensively? As I said previously, the type can play both defensively and offensively. This is both done through Diamond Storm (and god I beg you amnesia).

To start off, y'know people have been talking Rock/Water in an offensive light right? I don't think anyone has ignored how solid it is offensively. However Rock/Water has plenty of problems. For one, it's a Rock-type that loses to Zapdos, which sucks big time. Another thing is that, despite its 4x Fire resist, tt's unable to actually switch-into any of the relevant Fire-types in the meta. Heatran and Astrolotl both pack Ground coverage while Pyroak of course has Grass STAB. Finally, Rock/Water struggles a lot against bulky Waters, lacking a Water resist and a means of threatening them without strong coverage. Rock/Water just has too many problems to justify it over other Rock-typings.

The argument that Water/Rock can only be used for defensive plays and only defensive plays isn't entirely correct. If you need an example, Drednaw, (Nessa war flashbacks) it is bulky and has a defensive typing, yet it can sweep any uncareful player. If we take the same approach (and Diamond Storm) then we can have more then just a bulky defensive mon. (and amnesia plz)

Why is Drednaw your example when it's Untiered? Your example is also very nonspecific and does not tell me how Drednaw is good in any capacity or why we should "take the same approach."

Also Amnesia is ass, you don't gotta polljump for it.

 

[dex]

Without further ado, here is our slate! There were a ton of great options here, making picking these quite tough.

Rock / Flying - Rock / Flying has been unilaterally supported in this thread as a typing that accentuates Rock's strengths while providing a normally offensive type with some nice defensive qualities. This typing is an excellent balance of offensive and defensive traits that leaves our options quite open in future stages.

Ground - The first slated singular type in quite a while, Ground appreciates Diamond Storm's ability to hit Flying types. The famed EdgeQuake coverage is strong here, and Ground is a solid defensive typing that has the potential to make unique use out of Diamond Storm's boost.

Rock / Grass - Rock / Grass might seem like an odd typing given its lackluster defensive profile, but make no mistake, what this typing lacks in defensive potential it more than makes up for with its nuclear offensive spread. Rock and Grass are a pairing made in heaven coverage-wise, and it gives CAP 31 the potential to threaten foes like Slowking and Arghonaut.

Rock / Electric - Rock / Electric goes all in on offense and does not look back. Doubling down on pressuring Flying-types, Electric gives Rock the ability to hit Corviknight and every relevant Water-type in the tier. This typing has interesting implications when it comes to stats and moves due to the dearth of good physical Electric-type moves.

Grass / Fighting - Tried and true, Grass / Fighting has a proven example of appreciating Rock-type coverage in Breloom. Diamond Storm helps this typing by taking on the many Fire- and Flying-types the tier plays host to, letting this truly powerful offensive typing shine.

Rock / Water - Rock / Water is a strange typing, no doubt. It is a mixed bag of nice offensive qualities, such as hitting Ground-types super effectively, and defensive qualities, like resisting Ice. I find this typing to be quite interesting in how open to interpretation it is.

Grass / Ground - Grass / Ground is a strangely solid typing with one glaring weakness: Flying. This is where Diamond Storm comes in. Big Torterra vibes here.

Rock / Fire - Rock / Fire is another typing that eschews attempts at using Rock's paltry resistances and doubles down on offense. 2 4x weaknesses afford us a larger power budget here, and this typing's unique ability among the Rock typings to hit Steel-types is more than appreciated for a Diamond Storm user.

Thanks y'all for a great stage!

Final Bird Fact of the Day: Arctic Terns have the longest migration of any bird. They annually fly 25,000 miles, traveling from the Arctic to the Antarctic and back again.

 

[SHSP]

Slate looks great! Not gonna +/- 1 anything here. I'm very excited to see how this poll plays out, and I'd like to thank the community for such incredible discussion, and a special thanks to Dex for leading such a great stage in his first time around as TLT! Let's go get a typing figured out.