CAP 29 - Part 4 - Typing Discussion

[Reviloja753]

a) How much value does a Toxic immunity offer in the context of a bulky setup sweeper?

I believe being immune to Toxic is the most important status for CAP29 to be immune to, especially as a bulky setup sweeper. While having an immunity for only when we switch in may seem like a marginal benefit, it actually is extremely beneficial to the strategy CAP29 would use. You see, if we switch into Toxic and we are immune to it, they have to attack us to change our type before being able to Toxic us. Not only is this an ideal opportunity to set up, but it also could potentially drain the opponent's momentum in trying to be able to neuter CAP29. Depending on our coverage the actual Pokemon trying to poison us, we could also be able to force out whatever tried poisoning us as well.

b) How much value does a Burn immunity offer in the context of a bulky setup sweeper?

While this does deal small chip damage to us over time, the only reason I see us wanting to be immune to Burn is if we wish to choose a physically oriented type combination. Being immune to Burn requires being a Fire-type, and while being immune to Toxic does require being Poison or Steel, I feel that prioritizing Toxic makes more sense when, if we end up being a special attacker, Burn will be rather insignificant to our strategy.

c) How much value does a Paralysis immunity offer in the context of a bulky setup sweeper?

I feel that while there is some usefulness in being immune to Paralysis if we wish to increase our speed, I feel an immunity to Paralysis should be our lowest priority. As a bulky set up sweeper, while we may not have rock bottom speed in the end, speed is arguably not our most important stat. As such, I feel an immunity to Paralysis is just not something to focus on.

 

[shnowshner]

4) How important is being immune to status?
We're in an awkward spot with Color Change as our initial typing's resistance to status moves isn't permanent, and thus I feel the value of a typing immune to status is severely diminished.

a) How much value does a Toxic immunity offer in the context of a bulky setup sweeper?
This is by far the most damaging status to be afflicted with. Toxic will wear us to death over time, bad enough for something that stays in to run through teams rather than over the course of a game, and moreso has to boost itself up first. In our case, since bulky setup entails likely being outsped by the opponent, we're going to be taking a lot of damage to the point where we may crumble from the pressure. Toxic is also everywhere and anything from fat walls to purely-offensive Pokemon can find legitimate use from it. Being immune to Toxic Poison initially is thus a very effective safeguard from stray Toxics we're likely to encounter, making switching in to the more passive Pokemon we'd want to setup against easier and less of a gamble.
b) How much value does a Burn immunity offer in the context of a bulky setup sweeper?
Burn is only bad about half of the time. If we're special it's not a big issue, and the lower damage than regular Poison means we can easily stave off the damage. The bigger problem with Burn is that sources of Burn are very common, from Will-o-Wisp to Scald to Scorching Sands to most Fire attacks (per Bulbapedia if we get hit by a Fire move that can Burn, the Burn happens first). This means that mitigating Burn is going to be very hard, and a Fire typing would leave us vulnerable to two of the attacks that can still Burn us next turn anyhow. Thus this is both a status we probably don't have to worry about unless we go physical, and also realistically can't do too much about.
c) How much value does a Paralysis immunity offer in the context of a bulky setup sweeper?
Paralysis slowing us down isn't that much of an issue per our role, maybe it lets some thing outpace us and get damage off or recovery, but it's honestly not that bad. Sadly, Paralysis isn't just a Speed drop, but also a 25% chance to do nothing. This is bad news for many sweepers, as we want to try and get through the enemy before they find a way to stop us in our tracks, and the free turns granted from a full para could be a death sentence. Not nearly as bad as Toxic, but not good either.

5) How much should we value keeping our typing by switching into same-type attacks (eg a Water/Ground switching into Earthquake would stay a Water/Ground)?
Our initial typing could have huge implications for our ability to survive hits or use STAB to our advantage. We don't want to run into situations where a potential 1/4 resist becomes a 1/2 resist, as that means Color Change has only worsened our longevity. If we decide to go with a dual type, that could go a long way in helping us defend better against the opponent if they lack a solid way to change our type to do meaningful damage. Seeing as we fully expect to not have reliable STAB, the value we receive from switching into same-type attacks should prioritize on the defense benefits. This means we need to decide which Pokemon and attacks we want to be well defended against, and how that can be achieved through our typing.

 

[Wulfanator]

In response to the first slate of questions, I think our initial typing would be most beneficial if it had the fewest weaknesses to self-resistant attacks. As far as I can see, the success of Color Change will rely more heavily on the raw bulk of CAP29 as opposed to resistances its initial typing provides. Focusing on mitigating self-resistant weaknesses allows us to switch-in to a wider array of Pokémon that fall victim to the effects of Color Change.

Do not misinterpret this as “we need to not be weak to ALL self-resistant types.” Some of the self-resistant types are not overly present in the current meta (i.e. Psychic), and others only appear on mons that can follow up with a super effective hit (i.e. Poison). Of all the self-resistant types, the ones we ought to be most mindful of are Fire, Water, Grass, Electric, Dark, and Steel. Avoiding these 6 weaknesses is the bare minimum we would want from our typing.

As for self-weak attacks, I think it is a waste of effort to find a work-around for this problem. It is just an inherent flaw of the ability. If we attempt to remedy these issues with our typing, we risk detracting from the areas in which Color Change excels. We are better off investing our time elevating the matchups we stand to abuse as opposed to the ones we lose.

Lastly, STAB will be an unreliable option for this Pokémon, and we need not preoccupy ourselves with it in the discussion. This mon stands to go a similar route to that of Gen 7 Shift Gear Magearna (a set-up mon with no STAB). This Pokémon will want fantastic coverage which is a discussion for a later step.



Regarding the second slate, I do not think having a status immunity is necessary. It is a luxury that would be nice to have, but I think we need to prioritize mitigating our weaknesses to self-resistant types. That means if we cannot afford a status immunity, so be it. There are also two potential reasons for not wanting to provide ourselves status immunities.

• Allowing CAP29 to be easily crippled could allow us to explore stronger setup options compared to what would traditionally be allowed. Moves like Quiver Dance, Shell Smash, and Shift Gear usually get blacklisted as excessively strong setup options. We can usually afford more power if we can be punished with relative ease.
• Color Change can be somewhat difficult to break at times, especially when paired with strong bulk. This is in reference to some of the experiments Quziel and 2spoopy4u conducted by using Color Change on existing mons in custom games. Being able to whittle down CAP29 without relying on brute-force alone might be necessary for healthy counterplay.

I’m less sure about the last question regarding maintaining type. Unless there is a specific target we would like to counter that risks comboing us into a losing situation or we are trying to mitigate the issues with self-weak attacks, I do not think this is overly important. I think we would need to have a preemptive checks & counters discussion to adequately address this question.

 

[Amamama]

Being immune to Burn requires being a Fire-type

This is very important to note, since outside of wisp on , the most common sources of burn are Scald and to a lesser extent Scorching Sands and Lava Plume.

Actzualizing the burn immunity would mean being a fire type, that wants to stay in on a scald or scorching sands.
This is potentially pro concept in the case of Scald, as we could go from a Weakness to water, to resisting it.
But it also means, we’d be taking a lot of damage from one of the most commonly spammed moves in CAP, which might hinder 29s viability.

I think we would need to have a preemptive checks & counters discussion to adequately address this question.

I do think that we need to work a lot with the lists from CA2, which could mean some degree of poll jumping into checks and counters.
But since CC is affected much more by individual match ups, rather than blanket type interactions, imo we are going to need to analyze these matchups in depth, to inform our typing decision.

 

[quziel]

Ok, so we've had a lot of good discussion so far covering broadly our initial typing and its importance, interactions with self-weak and self-resistant typings, and our interaction with passive damage (status and stealth rock). I'd like to summarize a bit of that before moving into the typing submission stage.

Initial Typing:

We will be relying primarily on our Initial Typing moreso than Color Change to generate initial switchins, and as such it should have a number of relevant resistances. A good attacking STAB is a bonus but not a requirement when looking at our initial typing. Additionally we should not be weak to Stealth Rock with a resistance to stealth rock being a bonus. Similarly, while not mandatory an immunity to Poison and Toxic for our initial typing is a major bonus but is not mandatory in the least, with an immunity to burn being a conditionally major bonus. That said, we should still expect Color Change to provide a lot of our defensive utility, and while it won't generate as many switchin opportunities as our initial typing, it will still generate a lot.

Self-Resistant Interactions:

Resistances to Self-Resistant typings, as Amamama and The Metric System said, are a way to provide us with a consistent set of resistances; a Steel type with Color Change can switch into Grassy Glide and still resist Grassy Glide. At the same time these attacks are where the greatest value is realized from Color Change; turning a weakness into a resistance can lead to a situation where the first attack does 80% and the second does 20%. That said, there is some disagreement on this point, see Wulfanator72's recent post which argues that these typings can and should provide the majority of our defensive switchins, so being weak to them is potentially disqualifying.

Generally speaking, we want to have a mixture of weaknesses or neutralites, and resistances, to Self-Resistant typings. This provides us with consistent switchin opportunities, which stay consistent, and the ability to leverage Color Change to its maximum extent. Though, as Jewvia said, initial Neutralities to Self-Resistant typings let us still actualize Color Change with far lower risk.

Self-Weak Interactions:

The general consensus I have seen on this matter is that we should accept these typings as lost matchups, as seen in Wulfanator72's post, and that focusing on them is lost time, and that we should instead focus on the matchups where Color Change provides a large benefit. An immunity to either of the self-weak typings is something that we should view as a bonus, but is not mandatory in the least, and is not on the level of other bonuses.

----
I apologize for the timing of this, but I think it has to be asked;

6) Are there some self-resistant typings that are less accessible than others in terms of setting up Neutral=>Resist and Weak=>Resist combinations?

I ask this because the self-resistant typings have varying attack strengths, and there are definitely some of them where being weak to the typing initially will simply result in CAP 29's death, even assuming Skarmory style initial bulk.

----

With that said, I will be opening typing submissions. I think it may help to think of them in terms of:

7) What benefits does Color Change offer this typing?
a) Can this typing set up an Initial Weakness into Color Change Resist combination?
b) Can this typing set up a Initial Neutrality into Color Change Resist combination?
c) Does this typing offer consistent switchins, that is, Initial Resistance to Color Change Resistance interactions?
8) What further bonuses does this typing offer (SR Resistance, Toxic Immunity, Burn Immunity, Spikes Immunity.., Ghost Immunity, Dragon Immunity) beyond its resistances.

 

[Hakking]

My apologies if this is answered somewhere; I could not find it myself. Question: is color change activated when the pokemon it hit by a damage-inducing move to which it is immune? For example, if sylveon is hit by a dragon-type move, does it become dragon type?

 

[sneakyjeans]

I would like to submit Dark/Rock for our typing.

7) What benefits does Color Change offer this typing?

a) Can this typing set up an Initial Weakness into Color Change Resist combination?
Yes, with Water, Grass, and Steel attacks. This I would say is the best part of this typing, it turns weaknesses into resistances for a number of common attacking types, giving us more options to set-up after taking a SE hit. As well, a lot of the threats we determined in Concept Assessment 1 that use these kind of attacking moves are choiced or have limited options outside of their typing, like Barraskewda, Melmetal, Rillaboom, etc.

b) Can this typing set up a Initial Neutrality into Color Change Resist combination?
Yes, with Electric, Ice, and Poison attacks. Also common attacking types, these three neutrals-into-resists will provide even more switch-in options.

c) Does this typing offer consistent switchins, that is, Initial Resistance to Color Change Resistance interactions?
Yes with Fire and Dark, in particular I would like to highlight the value of Dark as it allows us to keep our initial typing and we resist. I want to also point out that CAP 29 may frequently end up with the Dark type due to the high usage and utility of Knock Off. I believe it is valuable to retain STAB if we are also losing our item in the trade, this will prevent Knock Off from crippling CAP 29 more than alternate typings.


8) What further bonuses does this typing offer (SR Resistance, Toxic Immunity, Burn Immunity, Spikes Immunity.., Ghost Immunity, Dragon Immunity) beyond its resistances.
So I know that of the list of bonuses above, Dark/Rock doesn't apply to any of them. There are a number of additional benefits beyond what it says above. There is the immunity to Psychic attacks, which is a minor benefit due to the low usage of Psychic as an attacking type. As well, there is no stealth rock weakness to deal with. Additionally, Dark and Rock are both strong attacking types, with strong STAB coverage that hits 6 types super effectively and is only collectively resisted by Fighting. As well, this typing does directly benefit from Sandstorm, another minor benefit but the 50% SpDef increase will help in tanking SE self-resist attacks like Thunderbolt or Surf.

 

[StarFalcon555]

I'm going to submit Steel/Fairy.

a) Can this typing set up an Initial Weakness into Color Change Resist combination?
Yes, it can, specifically with Fire attacks. This turns mons like Astrolotl, Victini, and the occasional Volcarona from some of our best counters to some of our worst ones.

b) Can this typing set up a Initial Neutrality into Color Change Resist combination?
Yes, it can, with Water and Electric attacks. These are both fairly common attacking types and will better allow us to switch into mons like Tapu Koko, Regieleki, and Urshifu-Rapid Strike.

c) Does this typing offer consistent switchins, that is, Initial Resistance to Color Change Resistance interactions?
There's a reason why Steel/Fairy is considered one of, if not the best defensive typings in the game. It has a whopping nine resistances, meaning that we can find many opportunities to switch in. What's more, a good amount of these types- specifically Ice, Grass, Psychic, and Dark- are also self-resists, synchronizing greatly with Color Change. Grass and Dark are especially good here, as the former means we laugh at Rillaboom, while the latter means Knock Off doesn't hurt us as much.

8) What further bonuses does this typing offer (SR Resistance, Toxic Immunity, Burn Immunity, Spikes Immunity.., Ghost Immunity, Dragon Immunity) beyond its resistances.
Steel/Fairy also has a multitude of bonuses. It has immunities to both Toxic and Dragon attacks, as well as a resistance to Stealth Rock. Being immune to Toxic and resistant to Stealth Rock is one of the best things about this typing, as it prevents us from getting worn down as much, giving us ample time to set up and sweep.

Also I'm going to copy what dex18 did and put down a list of typings that I was thinking about but don't really feel confident in them enough to submit them myself. If you guys see some potential in any of these, feel free to submit them!
Water/Dragon
Steel/Ground
Steel/Bug
Ground/Poison
Steel/Dark
Poison/Flying

 

[dex]

I would like to submit this type first, I may end up submitting another as well if I can get my thoughts down.

The type I'd like to talk about is Fighting/Steel

7a) This typing helps immensely by being able to come in on weaker Fire type attacks from and and staying in. Depending on stats, it also could have the potential to stay in on a Sacred Sword from and threaten it out with a special attack.

7b) Initial neutralities are what this typing does best, namely with Electric and Psychic type attacks. Coming in on a Discharge from or a Plasma Fists from gives CAP 29 a free turn to setup, and the same goes for a Psyshock from or .

7c) Notably, this typing offers an initial resistance to Grass, which I think is extremely important for this concept because neutral Grassy Glide from does a heap of damage no matter which way you look at it. Additionally, being able to stay in on choiced is a big bonus this typing offers. Other matchups this typing impacts positively through resistances staying resistances are Kyurem, Ferrothorn, and Syclant.

8) This typing offers many nice features outside of its resistances and neutralities. Namely, it offers both a Stealth Rock 4x resistance and a Toxic immunity. This allows for CAP 29 to come in multiple times without risking too much of its HP or getting inflicted with Poison from or .

These are some other types I'm not submitting but I'd like to mention because I think they work well with the concept. Feel free to submit any of them if you vibe with them:
Ground/Flying
Ground/Water
Grass/Steel
Steel/Flying

 

[Amamama]

6) Are there some self-resistant typings that are less accessible than others in terms of setting up Neutral=>Resist and Weak=>Resist combinations?

I ask this because the self-resistant typings have varying attack strengths, and there are definitely some of them where being weak to the typing initially will simply result in CAP 29's death, even assuming Skarmory style initial bulk.

Grass

It has two incredibly strong abusers, one of which sees a lot of usage in and . Trying to abuse these two in an 80->20 scenario is going to take a looooot of bulk.

Steel

Steel mostly exists in the form of Doom desire on and Double iron Bash on . Not only are these moves incredibly powerful, they also hit on both defensive sides. Again a 80/20 or 66/33 scenario is going to take a lot of bulk to pull off. Additionally doom desire isn’t really abusable in the same way as other moves as it can’t be chained anyway AND on top of that, all common users of steel STAB typically run ground or fighting coverage as well.

Psychic

Psychic has only one really powerful user in , which isn’t too common. But Future sight spam is still very important and as with doom desire, it doesn’t lend itself to being abused defensively in an 60/33 or 80/20 scenario.

Ice

Ice is the least common probably, but most ice attackers are choiced wall breakers that hit incredibly hard. and are not too common, but are also really hard to switch in on without a resistance.

are all going to be fairly hard to switch into consistently, without initial resist. All of these have users, with high powered choice Attacks, that are just not easy to tank for any Pokémon, that doesn’t resist them.
Im going more in depth in the spoilers.

before answering Quzs Questions I’d like to reply to some of the posts above.

a) Can this typing (Rock/Dark) set up an Initial Weakness into Color Change Resist combination?
Yes, with Water, Grass, and Steel attacks [...] that use these kind of attacking moves are choiced or have limited options outside of their typing, like Barraskewda, Melmetal, Rillaboom, etc

Trying to set up on Choiced attackers like or under Grassy Terrain, respectively Rain, while being weak to them implies a level of bulk that is ridiculous. We’d need 160/155 physical bulk with full investment and a positive nature to actualize this vs. and still respectable 125/120 for Grassy glide not to mention a Wood hammer, which would demolish us without our bulk being over 180/180.
So I don’t think Rock is the type to do, what you want here.

a) Can this typing (Fairy/Steel) set up an Initial Weakness into Color Change Resist combination?
Yes, it can, specifically with Fire attacks. This turns mons like Cinderace and Heatran from some of our best counters to some of our worst ones.

will laugh at almost any type we‘ll end up with, because it will have at least a neutral STAB to work with anyway. is even worse in this scenario, since it typically also runs ground coverage, so it’s not exactly going to be walled by us.
Note, I don’t necessarily think these types are bad for us, just I don’t think they will do what you promise here.

NOW TO THE MOST INTERESTING PART

Id like to propose Fire/Steel

7) What benefits does Color Change offer this typing?
a) Can this typing set up an Initial Weakness into Color Change Resist combination?
b) Can this typing set up a Initial Neutrality into Color Change Resist combination?
c) Does this typing offer consistent switchins, that is, Initial Resistance to Color Change Resistance interactions?

a) This typing offers one weakness to a Self Resisting type, which is Water.
I think this is promising in particular, because weak water moves are fairly common on Pokémon like and, so turning a weakness to water into a resist looks doable, without a boat load of bulk.
Water is also a Good type to change into, while setting up, since it’s again only weak to self resisting types, making chaining SE attacks really hard initially, which can buy us more time to set up.
B) It is neutral to Dark, Electric and Fire, so these are additional options that could be leveraged to set up. Note that dark comes mostly in the form of Knock off, which is often used as a weaker utility move on defensive Pokémon, as well as STAB Fire moves commonly being run with ground coverage, which hurts this aspect a bit.
C) The biggest boon it can offer is great defensive matchups vs. Grass, Ice and in particular Steel, which it all resists 4x, as well as resisting Psychic and being immune to Poison. As shown above, these are the attacking types of some of the hardest hitting Wallbreakers in CAP.
While 29 would go from a 4x resist to only 2x for grass and ice, the initial resist means we can take even the strongest of hits of these types and continue to wall them the next turn. For steel this is even more obvious, as we also retain SE STAB against it.

8) What further bonuses does this typing offer (SR Resistance, Toxic Immunity, Burn Immunity, Spikes Immunity.., Ghost Immunity, Dragon Immunity) beyond its resistances.

Fire/Steel also offers some bonuses on top of its great Type interactions.
It is immune to toxic and burn, while staying neutral to Stealth rock.

 

[snake]

I'd like to propose Poison / Dark.

7) What benefits does Color Change offer this typing?

Poison / Dark resists Grass, Poison, and Dark, and will continue to resist all of those even after Color Change hits. It's also neutral to the remainig self-resistant typings in Water, Steel, Fire, Ice, and Electric, which means we can leverage Base Typing Neutrality => Color Change Resistance very well.

a) Can this typing set up an Initial Weakness into Color Change Resist combination?

No, Ground-type moves are the only typing that is super-effective against Poison / Dark, and Ground does not resist Ground.

b) Can this typing set up an Initial Neutrality into Color Change Resist combination?

As stated before, beyond already resisting some of the self-resistant typings, we also resist Water, Steel, Fire, Ice, and Electric, which means we won't take super-effective amount of damage from those after initially switching into them, which I view as a positive.

c) Does this typing offer consistent switch-ins, that is, Initial Resistance to Color Change Resistance interactions?

Attempts to turn CAP29 into a pure Poison-type on the switch-in will not work with Poison / Dark, as CAP29 will remain Poison / Dark. This means there are fewer opportunities to prevent CAP29 from taking super-effective damage from an incoming Future Sight.

8) What further bonuses does this typing offer (SR Resistance, Toxic Immunity, Burn Immunity, Spikes Immunity.., Ghost Immunity, Dragon Immunity) beyond its resistances.

Poison-typing offers CAP29 an initial immunity to Toxic and also some very good initial STAB moves with a high chance to inflict poison on the opponent. Between these STAB moves and the variety of Dark-type moves available, Poison / Dark should have the flexibility to run sets with just 2 STAB moves, 3 STAB moves, or 2 STAB moves with coverage, in addition to its setup move. Poison + Dark coverage is still great offensive coverage without STAB, and the utility effects of Poison-type moves and Dark-type moves help to offset the power loss from losing STAB. Retaining STAB coverage will be a bonus for these moves, obviously. Having an initial Ghost-type resist and a natural propensity to run Dark-type moves helps to mitigate our matchup against Ghost-types too. Resisting Future Sight is also very helpful, which means that CAP29 can absorb Future Sight if it switches into a Poison-type move, a Dark-type move, or another non-damaging move.

 

[aaronarium]

Suggesting Normal/Fairy

7a: Both of its weaknesses, Poison and Steel, are self-resisting.

7b. Fire, Electric, Water, Grass, Psychic, Ice. That's quite a lot, in fact only 1/3 (normal, fight, rock, fairy, ground, flying) of the type chart is types that are not ineffective or resisted by against Normal/Fairy, or are not self-resisting.

7c. Besides the immunities this type has, since there are only so many self-resisting types, people have already mentioned numerous beneficial matchups, but just to reiterate, this gives advantages to mons like Astro, Rillaboom, Koko, Lele, and loads more.

8. Immunities to both self-weak typings is huge. Fairy is an amazing STAB, being super spammable. Bringing in a Poison, Steel, or Fire types to try and resist it, also means you're bringing in a mon who has a self-resistant STAB, so they can't always rely on being able to stop this CAP with offensive pressure.

Might expand on this more later.

Another type that's kind of cut from the same cloth as this one is Normal/Ghost. I don't plan on submitting it, but it's got a couple nuances to make it worth considering. It trades the Dragon immunity for Normal and Fighting ones, it only has a single (self-resistant) weakness, and has a Poison resistance. If someone wants to expand on this one, I would be really intrigued to see it.

 

[Sputnik]

I've been thinking about this and one typing I'd like to bring to the table is Fire/Fairy

a) Can this typing set up an Initial Weakness into Color Change Resist combination?
Poison and Water are the very big ones. I think one of the more interesting benefits of having the Fire-typing is that you can't get burned by the first Scald because of how Color Change works. Of course, you can get burned afterwards, but if it becomes a game of potentially pivoting into something in an emergency this could come in handy, especially if we want to go with a physical sweeping route. Poison is also rather nice, as suddenly this will not only be allowed to change into a Poison-type but they will also be immune to Toxic afterwards.

b) Can this typing set up a Initial Neutrality into Color Change Resist combination?
Yes, there are a few places where this can happen. Psychic, Steel, and Electric are the main ones. Psychic is nice because it allows us to mess with Latios in conjunction with the immunity and can also screw with Tapu Lele. I don't think much use will be gotten out of Steel, but it could be nice for eating Doom Desires and Melmetal. Electric is also not that big, but potentially stopping a Tapu Koko or something on the rampage could be nice and take some pressure off of your team's Ground-type.

c) Does this typing offer consistent switchins, that is, Initial Resistance to Color Change Resistance interactions?
Yes, many, in fact. Fire/Fairy offers resistances to Fire, Grass, Ice, and Dark. These are all great for a multitude of reasons. With this build, we gain resistances to the attacking moves that Astrolotl tends to use, and yes it will be flip flopping between them most likely, but it's still nice pressure to be able to exert. We deal with Rillaboom, and can eat any U-turns that it might consider due to the quadruple Bug-resist. Ice can be used for Kyurem and I suppose Weavile. Dark will be great, in this initial typing, for Hydreigon, assorted Knock Offs, and other things such as that.

8) What further bonuses does this typing offer (SR Resistance, Toxic Immunity, Burn Immunity, Spikes Immunity.., Ghost Immunity, Dragon Immunity) beyond its resistances.
We would be Stealth Rock weak with this typing, but it offers us numerous important resistances as a result, as well as a burn immunity and a Dragon immunity. What puts this typing apart, in my opinion, is the rather unique interactions that it has with some of the more important metagame threats. They don't technically count as resist interactions, but I think the initial resistances to Fairy and Bug are extremely important. Bug will help mitigate U-turn spam (something that will be a problem for this thing no matter what we do) to the fullest extent that we can with a quadruple resist. Fairy is a bit more interesting, but the initial Fairy and Fighting resistances will be extremely helpful vs. something such as Magearna and Kerfluffle. The combination of resistances also means that Cinderace will have to predict with Gunk Shot to get notable things done here. The Dragon immunity will also make this thing a crapshoot against Dragon-types such as Dragapult and Miasmaw while being exceedingly annoying for things such as Latios or even Hydreigon due to its immunity to their most powerful STAB move, although some of these can run Ground-type coverage for it admittedly.

 

[LucarioOfLegends]

If you can't beat Pex, join it. Let's talk Water / Poison

a) Can this typing set up an Initial Weakness into Color Change Resist combination?
Yes, this typing offers Electric and Psychic as weakness to resist. The big asterick here is with Psychic, as being weak to Future Sight initially might make actually switching in a bit more tricky.

b) Can this typing set up a Initial Neutrality into Color Change Resist combination?
Grass and Dark are the neutrals here. I think this is probably the weakest part of the typing since these are not phenomenal typings to want to switch in on. Dark is mostly troublesome since that mostly appears as Knock Off, which is not a great move to swap into since we lose whatever boosting item we have. Grass is mostly on the basis of having to contend with Rillaboom as the main user of Grass-type moves, which would require great bulk to contend effectively.

c) Does this typing offer consistent switchins, that is, Initial Resistance to Color Change Resistance interactions?
Water / Poison has a whopping eight resistances, and five of those we can maintain as resistances due to their self resistant nature: Poison, Steel, Water, Fire, and Ice.

8) What further bonuses does this typing offer (SR Resistance, Toxic Immunity, Burn Immunity, Spikes Immunity.., Ghost Immunity, Dragon Immunity) beyond its resistances.
Water/Poison offers a big baby bonus in the form of natural Toxic Immunity and a neutrality to Stealth Rock. Water as a typing is also pretty solid as a neutral attacking type, so even if the typing changes we aren't in a particularly bad spot for attacking moves.

 

[Rabia]

Submitting Steel / Flying

The nice thing about this typing is there aren't an abundance of weaknesses; you've only got Fire and Electric, and other than Cinderace and Heatran there aren't a whole lot of Pokemon that can immediately deal with this typing. This typing would give CAP 29 a fairly easy time switching into battle in addition to several other perks like a Ground immunity---which is potentially helpful for matchups against Equilibra and Garchomp---and a poison immunity. There is a big question mark about how you'd make this not just "bad Corviknight," but I feel that shouldn't be the worst task ever given.

In terms of weaknesses turned into resistances, well, it's both of them lol. Fire and Electric both resist themselves, and while the former isn't one we can do a whole lot with given Cinderace's ocean of coverage and Heatran running Earth Power a good amount of the time, we definitely have some leverage with the latter. Zapdos can't immediately follow up with any significant damage after using an Electric-type move, and Krilowatt seldom runs Earth Power.

Neutralities turned into resistances has a very slightly larger pool: Dark, Ice, and Water are all self resistant, but only the latter of these seems to be all that relevant. Pending the direction CAP 29 goes (physical or special), perhaps a gained Scald resistance via Color Change could be interesting.

Steel / Flying has a shit ton of natural resistances and immunities: Poison, Psychic, Grass, Ground, Steel, and Flying are typings always resisted or ineffective in the first two turns, while Normal, Rock, Bug, Fighting, and Fairy end up as neutralities overall.

 

[Jewvia]

The first note is, since we are relying on our initial typing, and that self-weak immunities are a non-significant bonus, Normal is a useless addition for us. The Fighting weakness is a neutral weakness that I still feel is dangerous, as many of our threats can follow up the SE Fighting move with their own SE STAB such as Tomohawk or Tornadus. This is especially considering that the majority of Ghost types that we would be hoping to switch in against with this typing can still deal with us outside choice-locked sets, such as the two Ghost/Dragons or Aegislash.

I know its a bit hypocritical to say this immediately after saying that one immunity type is useless, but I think it is a good move to submit Fairy/Poison for this concept. I'll be answering question 7 and 8 at the same time with these cases, since the interactions between the resistances and the bonuses go hand-in-hand with these cases.

a) Can this typing set up an Initial Weakness into Color Change Resist combination?

The two initial weakness to resists here are from Psychic and Steel. Looking at the list composed by Birkal at the end of Concept Assessment 2, the most relevant Pokemon here that we have this initial weakness to are Melmetal, Gyro Ball Ferrothorn, Latios, Kartana, and Tapu Lele. (Also Future Sight/Doom Desire, but that's a different beast.)

Melmetal is probably the most worrisome threat to be initially weak to, since DIB hits twice before we change colour. Unless we heavily invest in bulk, we go down immediately. However, we can effectively wall the rest following the first hit. Likewise, if Melmetal throws out any of its 3 other moves in its non-choiced set (Protect/Earthquake/Toxic) are more questionable. However, even if the Earthquake hits us SE it is significantly less scary than the Double Iron Bash and is our safest switch in. That being said... This is probably the worst matchup we are making from our good matchup list.

Kartana hurts. Kartana does lots of damage. However, Smart Strike is only a 70 BP move, and even on a choice band set, Kartana is a lot less damaging than a non-choiced Melmetal. It is worth mentioning that both of these threats are physical as well, which does put strain on the stats stage.

The other 3 are not a significant problem. Gyro Ball Ferrothorn is relying on it running a specific not-very-damaging move, which then changes us to a typing that walls it and allows us to bully it out or set up for free. Tapu Lele is similar to Kartana where it hurts like hell to get hit, but we can effectively wall afterwards, and a Psyshock likewise relies on our defense more than our special defense.

Finally, Latios brings a special interaction with this typing. Latios' set runs Draco Meteor and a non-attacking move (Trick on choice sets, Roost on Life Orb.) This means that we have a decent chance of switching in and keeping our initial typing despite that weakness to its Psychic, and then being able to reply with an SE Fairy STAB should we choose to bring one. If we don't Latios would be wasting a lot of turns trying to change our type around to hit us SE again, which gives us ample time to setup.

Overall, it can set up from its initial weakness against Kartana, Ferrothorn, and Tapu Lele, albeit with some strain on stats. It may do it against Melmetal, but that is a very scary threat that can take us out even with good bulk on a bad switch-in. It may also do it against Latios, or it may be able to just KO Latios on the spot.

To look at the list that we have our natural disadvantage against, this does not help us deal with Magearna, Glowking, Excadrill, or Aegislash. We aren't scared of Aegislash for its Steel Typing anyways, and Cawmodore we are also weak to but lets be honest, that thing is a monster when set up that would KO us with the neutral Acrobatics anyways. However this is a list of mons that we are already weak against naturally, we are not making this matchups any worse. The only disadvantage here is Melmetal's DIB.

b) Can this typing set up a Initial Neutrality into Color Change Resist combination?

The relevant initial neutralities here are Fire, Water, Electric, and Ice. Switching into Poison means it will stay neutral, because we don't change to mono-Poison. Coincidentally, the only relevant poison type is Nidoking, whose Sheer Force means they won't change our type anyways. (Also they would just use Earthquake either way.)

There are a lot here that we can deal with nicely, but I think the most important ones to mention are Dracozolt, Cyclohm, and Tapu Koko. Currently, we have good matchups against these two by switching into their electric spam. However, if instead we switch into a Dragon or Fairy move from these two, we have a new advantage from the Fairy typing. Our immunity to Dragon means that we are not scared of Dracozolt or Cyclohm in any capacity (other than Static I guess if we use contact moves), while our Fairy/Poison mix means that we can keep our Poison SE STAB should we choose to bring one to take out Tapu Koko.

c) Does this typing offer consistent switchins, that is, Initial Resistance to Color Change Resistance interactions?

Grass and Dark are the two we will always resist. The most interesting matchups to talk bout here that benefit from this dual typing are Jumbao and Hydreigon. Jumbao we would normally wall from grass spam, but if we switch in against a Fairy move we have a 4x effective SE Poison STAB. Likewise, Hydreigon is sometimes a threat and sometimes not, but the Dragon Immunity from Fairy means that we will always be able to get a free setup against Hydreigon. Or we can just nuke it with a 4x effective SE Fairy STAB. Would we bring both stabs? Probably not, so one of these is a free setup that we wall, while the other we can delete on switch in, doesn't matter which.

Something interesting is that this combo turns Fairy into a self-resistant type in effect. If we get hit by a Fairy move, we stay Fairy/Poison and stay resistant. I know its not an interaction with Color Change but rather an interaction in spite of Color Change, but these kinds of keep-the-dual-type interactions are very important to consider here, and this is a pretty fun one, adding Fairy spam to the list of things we wall unless the opponent wants to spend 3 turns shuffling our typing around, after which we will have already setup and are ready to start sweeping.

8) What further bonuses does this typing offer

In addition to the Fairy/Poison STAB interaction, or the Dragon immunity, we are neutral to SR and immune to all forms of poisoning, which helps a lot in many matchups like Amoongus or even Melmetal as mentioned above.

 

[The Crusade]

I am increasingly leery of perpetuating the Fairy/Steel/Dragon bubble that has swallowed CAP for the past two generations. For the record, the last non-starter project to have a different typing was Crucibelle in XY. It is disheartening that five of the seven opening submittals follow this trend, though I do recognize that Fairy has the very alluring merit of immunity to the auto-weak Dragon.

That said, I do have something else in mind. I propose Poison/Water.

7) What benefits does Color Change offer this typing?
a) Can this typing set up an Initial Weakness into Color Change Resist combination?

It can. This typing sports weaknesses to Electric and Psychic—God, hasn't Toxapex beaten that into us?—both of which are auto-resistant. In the context of CAP, this implies a bulky 29 stands a chance of making a comeback from costly SE hits such as Banded Melmetal's Thunder Punch (as opposed to the predicted DIB). The only other weakness of this typing is Ground, which does not resist itself. That means two out of Poison/Water's scant three weaknesses auto-resist as desired.

b) Can this typing set up a Initial Neutrality into Color Change Resist combination?

The most interesting one is certainly Grass as championed by Rillaboom (and mind you, Poison/Grass is my runner-up idea). With the proposed Poison/Water typing, 29 would sport neutrality on the first hit and resistance on the second. It is also notable for resisting Kartana's secondary STAB—more on that shortly. Poison/Water has more resistances than it does neutralities, so there is not much else to mention here except that neutrality vs. Dark functions similarly. That improves the Mandibuzz matchup.

c) Does this typing offer consistent switchins, that is, Initial Resistance to Color Change Resistance interactions?

Boy howdy, does it. I'll pick these apart one by one.

• Ice—As Amamama accurately noted, uncommon though it may be, Ice favors hard-hitting choiced attacks. Fortunately, only one relevant Ice-type (Kyurem) has Freeze-Dry in its repertoire. Any 'mon locked into Ice Beam or Triple Axel struggles against Poison/Water.
• Fire—This is probably most relevant to Astrolotl. Resisting Fire Lash makes it difficult for the menace to wear 29 down in spite of the Def. drop. We are making a setup sweeper, so we are susceptible to Encore, but that is neither here nor there.
• Water—Resisting Scald indefinitely is nice, which improves our standing against the Slowfellas. I'm reading Suicune is somehow ranked now, so beating that can be considered a bonus.
• Steel—This is a fairly abundant typing and another that is often choice-locked. Steel is an exceptionally annoying type for the opponent to deal with once 29 secures the change. We have two extraordinary Steel/Grounds in the tier, but otherwise offensive Steel must fall back on coverage options like Focus Blast and Sacred Sword to make any headway.
• Poison—Offensive Poison at the moment is limited to Nidoking and Slowking, who both have secondary STABs that hit SE. Therefore, this is probably the least significant switch-in opportunity.

8) What further bonuses does this typing offer (SR Resistance, Toxic Immunity, Burn Immunity, Spikes Immunity.., Ghost Immunity, Dragon Immunity) beyond its resistances.

The initial typing laughs at Magearna barring Thunderbolt or Stored Power, both of which are auto-resists if 29 can live a hit. More importantly, this is a Toxic-immune typing. Numerous defensive 'mons must first land a direct hit before daring to put out poison against 29, and several are poorly equipped to do so without being severely punished (Moltres and Heatran especially). I think Poison/Water maximizes the doors we can throw open with Color Change without falling back on disgustingly safe typings like Steel/Fairy.

Oh. And in conclusion, I curse LucarioOfLegends for making a ninja post while I was typing. Reeeeee.

 

[Gekokeso]

Aight ladies and gentlemen its time for Electric/Steel

7) What benefits does Color Change offer this typing?

a) Can this typing set up an Initial Weakness into Color Change Resist combination?
Fire is the most notable one, as it allows the mon to turn one of the most common attacking types and weakness into a resist.If we get enough bulk, Fighting attacks can beturned into regular hits which could be also neat.

b) Can this typing set up a Initial Neutrality into Color Change Resist combination?
Being able to turn Water and Dark from neutralities to resists is actually a very cool interaction when you realise how common knock off and scald get spammed, which gives some great opportunities for 29 to sweep.

c) Does this typing offer consistent switchins, that is, Initial Resistance to Color Change Resistance interactions?
As seen with the steel/fairy example above, steel typings are pretty damn good at giving us swith-in opportunities. Electric steel really shines at this, with a whooping 11 resistances and 1 inmunity, we have multiple ways of entering the field rather safely. Out of those imnunities, Grass, Psychic, Ice Electric and Steel are all turned into color change resistances which allows 29 to still have the upper hand against these types, especially electric and steel which cannot even change our typing and Poison who can't even touch us. While we lose our resistance to fairy, bug, flying and normal, the intial resist to these typings still provides with an excellent opportunity for 29 to come in. Finally, while a Dragon resistance may seem irrelevant on most cases, a suficient bulk could lead to 29 being able to take an intial dragon hit well enough to survive the second one, or jsut simply survive the intial hit and attack/set up.

8) What further bonuses does this typing offer (SR Resistance, Toxic Immunity, Burn Immunity, Spikes Immunity.., Ghost Immunity, Dragon Immunity) beyond its resistances.
While i admit this typing suffers from a severe spikes weakness, it compensates with some nice bonuses:

• Both a toxic inmunity, which is huge, and a paralysis inmunity (i know people seemed to dismiss this because speed loss isn't that bad for a bulky set-up sweeper, but the 25% of us not moving also sucks)
• Resistance to stealth rocks and inmunity to toxic spikes
• Resistance to future sight and double resistance to doom desire, which doesn't even change our typing

Out of the other types being submitted, my current favorite is Poison/Dark, and it would be sick if someone submitted Ghost/Dark as well.

 

[viol and bass]

I would like to propose Bug/Ground. This particular typing is interesting specifically because I consider it the only viable pivot-resistant typing. It is the only typing outside of Bug/Electric that can switch in on both U-turn and Volt Switch and not lose its STAB and resistances. U-turn turning us into mono-Bug will hurt for other typings, as it is one of the most commonly used moves, but this typing would be maintained perhaps more than any other, allowing us to use powerful STAB Ground-type moves. It also benefits from being neutral to Stealth Rock.

Bug/Ground is a typing with well-defined strengths and weaknesses. Its weakness to Flying hurts, but several of the most relevant Flying-types hurt almost any Color Change mon due to carrying Fighting-types moves that subsequently make us weak to Flying. They are not great matchups for this typing, but I don't think they'd be great matchups anyway. Its other three weaknesses are self-resistant, which as we've discussed, can be beneficial to us.

Its other main weakness is the offensive deficiency of its STABs. STAB Ground moves are extremely useful, but Flying-types in particular, as well as Equilibra, are not threatened by our STAB typing. However, I believe this can be easily remedied in the movepool stage, and STAB typing is obviously less relevant for this project than any other.

7) What benefits does Color Change offer this typing?
a) Can this typing set up an Initial Weakness into Color Change Resist combination?
Color Change turns 3 out of 4 weaknesses (Fire, Ice, and Water) into resists upon switching into them. None of its weaknesses are 4x weaknesses, which can be beneficial for a bulky set-up mon that could potentially tank certain super-effective hits and turn them into resists.

b) Can this typing set up a Initial Neutrality into Color Change Resist combination?
Neutralities such as Grass, Dark, Steel, and Psychic become resists upon switching into them.

c) Does this typing offer consistent switchins, that is, Initial Resistance to Color Change Resistance interactions?
One of the most interesting applications of this typing is as a Landorus switch-in. We can switch into Earthquake or U-turn and not lose our typing. We also resist Earthquake while not being weak to Stone Edge, which is a rare quality, so many ground-types are decent switch-in opportunities for us. We also have an Electric immunity that allows us to switch in fairly well on mons such as Zeraora and Tapu Koko. We function as a Volt Switch stopper for mons like Magearna, and mons like Kartana become decent switch-ins as we are neutral to its STABs, then resist them after Color Change. Resistance to Fighting is always useful for a wide variety of mons that carry it as coverage, and resistance to Poison and Ground forces things like Nidoking to think about what move they click.

8) What further bonuses does this typing offer (SR Resistance, Toxic Immunity, Burn Immunity, Spikes Immunity.., Ghost Immunity, Dragon Immunity) beyond its resistances.
This typing offers a Thunder Wave immunity, which can be quite beneficial, but I believe the "pivot resistant" nature of the typing is the most interesting aspect of it, and makes this typing unique.

 

[kjnjkmjk1]

My apologies if this is answered somewhere; I could not find it myself. Question: is color change activated when the pokemon it hit by a damage-inducing move to which it is immune? For example, if sylveon is hit by a dragon-type move, does it become dragon type?

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8customgame-1283186964 Didn't use Sylveon, but as shown here, immunities do not cause Color Change to activate. In general, you need to do damage to the Color Change Pokemon in order to activate Color Change (status moves don't activate Color Change either, for example).

6) Are there some self-resistant typings that are less accessible than others in terms of setting up Neutral=>Resist and Weak=>Resist combinations?
For reference, these are the self-resistant typings: Water, Fire, Electric, Steel, Dark, Grass, Psychic, Poison, Ice
I generally agree with Amamama's list (Grass, Psychic, Ice, Steel).

• Out of these, Grass is particularly bad. 's power has been discussed to death, but here's some more examples:
  • is already capable of clicking a super-effective Weather Ball or Sludge Bomb after Solar Beam, and can potentially set up a chain of Solar Beam -> Weather Ball/Sludge Bomb -> Earth Power (-> Solar Beam).
  • Already mentioned, but trades off Grassy Glide, OK bulk, and the Grassy Terrain boost for being way faster and stronger from the get-go, and can be very difficult to deal with (especially if we start with a weakness). Of course, it's also pretty rare in CAP, as it does not do well against Tomohawk, but it's certainly a threat against trying to do a Weak->Resist combo on Grass.
  • Is typically Scarfed, and is already going to be forcing itself out if it's clicking Leaf Storm. Solar Beam is a different story that's a lot more feasible to deal with using Color Change, but it's also not as common.
  • sometimes runs Power Whip, but its role is not directly threatened by Color Change.
• Psychic and Steel are less bad because they have fewer abusers, but as mentioned before, taking a chunk from Future Sight/Doom Desire is not great, not to mention the sheer power of and , or 's (and technically 's) ability to link its STABs in an potentially lethal super effective combination. The non-consecutive nature of Future Sight/Doom Desire makes it difficult to effectively set up weak/neutral->resist interactions, anyways.
• I don't really have anything to add on for Ice that wasn't already said by Amamama. Ice is pretty rare as both coverage and STAB, and in the case of coverage, the usual suspects can find ways to hit us with their STABs easily. Some quick calcs on (which has reasonable 95/73/90 bulk) showed that it is possible to pull of the neutral -> resist combo for some of the mons, but being weak is not a good look.

Calcs

252 Atk Choice Band Syclant Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 169-199 (42.8 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (Fairy, so neutral)
252 Atk Choice Band Syclant Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 84-99 (21.3 - 25.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
(Ice, so resist)
Pretty survivable. On the other hand,
252 Atk Choice Band Syclant Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 338-398 (85.7 - 101%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
(Grass)
Syclant can just click Icicle Crash again and KO in this case.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 187-222 (47.4 - 56.3%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (neutral)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 93-111 (23.6 - 28.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery (resist)
Again, doable.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 374-444 (94.9 - 112.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
(weak)
Not this, though.

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 246-291 (62.4 - 73.8%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (neutral)
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 123-144 (31.2 - 36.5%) -- approx. 4HKO after Leftovers recovery (resist)
This is potentially survivable, and this also assumes it hits all three hits both times. Still not really worth the risk.
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 492-582 (124.8 - 147.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO (weak)
Nope.

Other typings:

• Dark: This typing is probably one of the most accessible in terms of not dying while setting up the neutral/weak->resist interaction, mostly due to being able to sit in front of (and , although it may fall down the rankings post-Spectrier ban), but it's also pretty lacking in abusers otherwise. Knock Off is often employed on Pokemon that don't get STAB on it and don't invest in their attacking stats, and don't really care a whole lot about getting Knock Off damage reduced, and being weak to Knock Off to start is not great.
• Poison: It only has a few consistent STAB abusers. doesn't interact with Color Change, which makes a weakness really bad and a neutrality dependent on our ability to take Sludge Wave (and not be weak to whatever else it's carrying). can threaten us out with a Future Sight after hitting a Poison move, but that involves sticking around until it can ensure our typing is weak to Future Sight when it hits, which may be enough to buy ourselves some time. This type is somewhat accessible.
• Fire: Putting (who can just U-turn out or hit us with neutral STAB moves from Libero) and (Fire move -> Earth Power) aside, this type is also somewhat accessible. is up in the air after its recent nerf, and the Fire Lash/Stomping Tantrum combo is potentially a problem (or even mono-Lash), but it could potentially get threatened out. is in a somewhat similar boat (Fire STAB -> Scorching Sands), but it doesn't get the benefit of Fire Lash's defense drops, making it harder for it to try to break through. needs to spend time hitting us with a Bug move to set up a second super-effective interaction, which buys us extra time.
• Water: Besides (and ) skewering us in rain, water is pretty accessible in terms of not taking huge amounts of damage, and being able to shrug off Scald's chip is nice. However, is happy to click on its Electric STAB.
• Electric: Probably one of the most accessible, although Volt Switch means this interaction isn't quite as useful. is going to hurt if we're weak, but none of the mons here are particularly known for their sheer power, making it easier for us to buy turns ( has to waste time on Hurricane/Weather Ball to set up a super-effective interaction, choiced is stuck, has to waste time on Surf and rarely runs Earth Power for some examples).

 

[Pipotchi]

Just wanted to share some opinions on some of the ones listed so far:

Im a fan of:
Steel/Flying: As mentioned, it has the best relationship with SE->resisted hits, neutral->resisted, resisted->resisted. It has two immunities. It has the best hazard resilience of all types mentioned so far. It has a status immunity and resists or is neutral to every relevant priority. Steel's resisted->SE interaction with Dragon is not that bad, because the most common Dragon move is Draco Meteor and that lowers itself after the first use. I find the Ground immunity here to be an incredibly rare and useful boon for Color Change thats found in very few strong typing suggestions so far.
Water/Poison: This is one of the only suggestions that I could see running its own STAB combo and getting away with it. It has amazing STAB moves when non-STAB thanks to handy secondary effects, while providing good coverage. Defensively its a very strong typing that has a status immunity, absorbs tspikes when it switches in (not that relevant), and its got plenty of SE->resisted, neutral->resisted and resisted->resisted interactions.
Poison/Fairy: I like both of these typings individually for the concept and they work fine together. It has all the benefits already mentioned of Poison type (which i think is one of the best typings we could end up as) and Fairy has great initial resists, Dragon immunity and all its weaknesses are self-resisting. This typing is bad offensively together, but thats totally fine by me.


I could get behind:
Steel/Fairy: Its a strong typing with a lot of good SE->resisted, neut->resisted, resisted->resisted interactions. I just struggle to see it being more pro-concept than the very similar Steel/Flying.
Poison/Dark: Its a good typing and I think typings with a lack of initial weaknesses could be strong here. It also has useful STAB combo and moves (that work when non-STAB) associated with it, though it does way better on the physical side. I think I just like the Poison aspect here and maybe the Dark aspect is clashing/not meshing with Color Change well- it could lead to the ghost resist being somewhat hard to take advantage of and the Psychic immunity is somewhat overstated with Future Sight being a common psy move that you would want to absorb, yet will struggle to do so.
Normal/Fairy: Like psn/dark its somewhat thriving on its most neutral matchups and its weaknesses are self-resisting. It has 2 immunities, but the Ghost immunity is perhaps overstated as ghosts may cause you problems regardless. I could go for it, though it doesnt really go all-out like some of the better typings. Offensively the combo sucks, but thats just fine.
Fire/Fairy: I like this typing. Fire is a good move to have even when its non-STAB. It has the usefulness of Fairy that I said I like already, and Fire is a mixed bag but not too bad when it comes to CC interactions. It has a weakness to all hazards, which is a bit unfortunate.


I dont get it:
Bug/Ground: Its not a very standout initial defensive typing though it has a status pseudo-immunity, and maintaining STABs vs common volt switchers and uturners that can obliterate you with their STABs just isnt good, especially when maintaining its STAB does not seem to be on the menu anwyay when performing its intended role as a bulky setup sweeper that will be taking hits while boosting.
Dark/Rock: This has the most weaknesses of any typing in the game, which admittedly gives it plenty of SE->resisted hits lol. But it also has just as many SE->neutrals going on for it. Its overall brutalized by priority, which means pivoting around it until you get in a Rilla or alternative renders a lot of its setup chances useless. The STAB combo is good enough, but thats not really my main interest for the typing and only offers a little boost on top of a slew of major problems.

If I didnt mention it so far its cus I havent thought about it yet.

 

[viol and bass]

I dont get it:
Bug/Ground: Its not a very standout initial defensive typing though it has a status pseudo-immunity, and maintaining STABs vs common volt switchers and uturners that can obliterate you with their STABs just isnt good, especially when maintaining its STAB does not seem to be on the menu anwyay when performing its intended role as a bulky setup sweeper that will be taking hits while boosting.

In the typing's defense, a number of U-turners and Volt Switchers cannot obliterate you with their STABs. Lando, Zeraora, non-Brave Bird Mandibuzz, Crucibelle, potentially stuff like Koko and Rillaboom, etc. It also seems like we're going to try to be bulky enough to live some super effective into NVE hits (otherwise that discussion point wouldn't be relevant), so that adds a lot more things to the list. For the other mons like Magearna, yes, it may not be bulky enough to live a specs Fleur Cannon, but it can block a predicted Volt Switch. This is going to be a somewhat prediction-reliant mon, but I think that's a relevant trait. It has some very relevant resistances, but it also has some useful neutralities: it's a bug that's not weak to Rock, and it's a Ground-type that's not weak to Grass. To me, for this concept in particular, that's pretty useful.

 

[PsychLantern]

I see the appeal of having a poison immunity right now and I do like the suggestion many brought up of a Water/Poison, since a lot of the mons pointed out to have a disadvantage to Color Change have STABs that can be resisted by it or only hit it neutrally, giving a greater chance of a safe switch-in. The ability to shrug off Toxic Spikes is also really nice sounding.
I mostly have in mind the thought that we should prioritize having a mon that deals well with the mons that can be threatened by Color Change rather than patching its weakness to mons that take advantage of the ability (though patching some weaknesses can be nice).

 

[Dece1t]

I'd like to propose Bug/Steel.

7) What benefits does Color Change offer this typing?
a) Can this typing set up an Initial Weakness into Color Change Resist combination?

The only self-resistant type this combo is weak to is fire. However, it trades off for resistances to ice, dragon, poison, other steel types and bug types, grass (4x resistant), and psychic. On top of that, on switch-in only it is resistant to fairy.

b) Can this typing set up a Initial Neutrality into Color Change Resist combination?

With enough bulk, this can set up on dark types (becoming resistant after CC), electric, and water. It stays entirely neutral to rock, flying, and ground.

c) Does this typing offer consistent switchins, that is, Initial Resistance to Color Change Resistance interactions?

Generally yes. It would have to worry about staying in on ghost or dragon attacks (given it's not immune to either, only initially resistant), but it stays resistant to a plethora of types mentioned in part a and b (ice, poison, steel, bug, grass, psychic, dark, electric, and water).

8) What further bonuses does this typing offer (SR Resistance, Toxic Immunity, Burn Immunity, Spikes Immunity.., Ghost Immunity, Dragon Immunity) beyond its resistances.

It is toxic immune, which can prevent toxic spreaders impeding set up before taking an attack.

____

Other than this type, I'd throw my support behind Normal/Fairy and Poison/Fairy. I also feel alright* with Water/Poison aside from the fact that it cannot offer immunities to Dragon or Ghost. Cinderace is hot right now too, and having initial fire resistance would be great like Water would offer. Being immune to burns would be pretty good too, but I feel adding Fire as one of our typings creates too many initial weaknesses.

Edit: fixed some miswordings and errors.

 

[Pipotchi]

In the typing's defense, a number of U-turners and Volt Switchers cannot obliterate you with their STABs. Lando, Zeraora, non-Brave Bird Mandibuzz, Crucibelle, potentially stuff like Koko and Rillaboom, etc. It also seems like we're going to try to be bulky enough to live some super effective into NVE hits (otherwise that discussion point wouldn't be relevant), so that adds a lot more things to the list. For the other mons like Magearna, yes, it may not be bulky enough to live a specs Fleur Cannon, but it can block a predicted Volt Switch. This is going to be a somewhat prediction-reliant mon, but I think that's a relevant trait. It has some very relevant resistances, but it also has some useful neutralities: it's a bug that's not weak to Rock, and it's a Ground-type that's not weak to Grass. To me, for this concept in particular, that's pretty useful.

If you switch into U-turn as you previously suggested, yes you have managed to keep stab but they opponent gets to switch into a better counter and force you out before it matters anyway. Other Ground typings also offer a superior volt-switch blocker.
It also starts off with a lot of vulnerability thanks to 4 common starting weaknesses and vulnerable to all hazards and status (apart from some paralysis moves). Many of the suggestions so far can find ways to maintain typing thanks to immunity or resists just like the U-turn and Volt Switch examples, for instance Steel/Flying can come in on poison, toxic status, and ground moves, resisted steel and flying moves. Poison/Water can come in on toxic, water, and poison moves. So the bug/ground example doesn't really stand out as special.

Lastly, compare Bug/Ground being u-turned on to Steel/Flying. One turns into Bug/Ground, the other turns into pure Bug. The opponent now gets to pick the counter they bring in, and is able to threaten you directly. The Bug/Ground is open to counters that carry a Fire/Flying/Ice/Water type move. The pure Bug type is open to counters that carry a Fire/Flying/Rock type move. Did we really gain more than the other suggested typings? The opponent can still go into things like Tomohawk, Zapdos, Torn-T, Equilibra, Astrolotl, Cinderace etc as answers. Some of these mons are slightly more afraid of a STAB Ground move than a non-STAB ground move, but every team carries a Flying type that can threaten this much more reliably if necessary. So the U-turn matchup is super bad either way.

Dont get me wrong, every type can work for any concept. But the aim is to compare typings and find the overall best fit rather than champion a favourite. This one is focusing on the shakiest and least important element of the mon which is maintaining its STAB on a switchin (which it doesnt even excel at, having a predictive element that might cripple us in our intended role as a setup sweeper). It feels directly outclassed by other Ground types with strong defensive prowess like Ground/Flying and Ground/Water.