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BW2 Doubles Viability Ranking Thread
- Thread starter Laga
- Start date
I'm not saying it's as good as Kyurem for BlizzSpam, but the BoltBeam STAB, the Levitate, and the ability to run a great Scarf set, or a slower Chople/Occa set give it a specific niche in hail. It also gets Volt Swicth for those shenanigans.
Sounds like C rank material to me then. I've never used it, but the phrase "it has a niche" describes C rank mons pretty well.
Is the scarf set similar to Rotom-W's (ie Blizzard/Volt Switch/Hidden Power/Trick)? Or, since bolt beam is enough on its own, do you go for something else instead of hidden power?
Is the scarf set similar to Rotom-W's (ie Blizzard/Volt Switch/Hidden Power/Trick)? Or, since bolt beam is enough on its own, do you go for something else instead of hidden power?
I usually use TBolt over HP, since it doesn't force you out.
Yeah I can see it fitting in C Rank, since it is mostly outclassed by Kyurem at BlizzSpam, but has its own small little merits. Hail reliance will keep it out of B Rank for all eternity, unfortunately.
Well, that's what the write-ups are for. In the write-up it will say something like "Rotom-Frost is great in hail; unfortunately it fairs poorly in other, more common weathers" or somesuch, and if people read it they will stick it on their hail teams. In addition, having it in C rank is probably more likely to make people use it than not listing it.
"Rotom-Frost is great in hail; unfortunately it fairs poorly in other, more common weathers or is outclassed by other Rotom formes."
I think that's the main reason it isn't used.
Not that other Rotom-formes bar Wash is used that much anyway, even if Frost-tom boasts having the only dual-targeting move.
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If we are talking about Rotom forms, we might as well add in Rotom-Heat and Rotom-Mow. Both are useful, Rotom-Heat can blow through things with Fire Gem Overheat, and its unique typing allows it to laugh in the face of most Thundurus-Therian, Zapdos, Thundurus, etc. The typing gives it a lot of helpful resistances and Ground immunity in exchange for Rock and Water weakness. Nominating Rotom-Heat for B Rank, possibly A, but at least B. Rotom-Mow can give Rain teams some additional trouble, but Ice weakness holds it back. Still, Grass Gem Leaf Storm can OHKO both Politoed and Tyranitar, which is something the other Rotom forms cannot do (Specs Hydro Pump is not guaranteed to OHKO Tyranitar). While it obviously has flaws that make it inferior to the other forms in most cases, its unique talents lead me to nominate Rotom-Mow for C Rank. From what I can see, neither of these are even mentioned in the Viability Rankings list, so they need to be added at least. (If I missed them, lol derp)
i'd like to move gallade out of d rank and into c rank. the main reason being is that it's a trick room setter that can ohko ttar right through its chople and kyurem-b as well as having neato moves like feint, ice punch, helping hand and zen headbutt. i recognize the fact that its affected by intimidate and it can be (somewhat) easily checked by cress, but its like chandelure in that its power makes trick room that much more efficient, which is important because after your first trick room, you're not guaranteed another setup most of the time and you've only got 4 turns to work with. hell, it might even be better than chand in that regard because feint goes a long way in preventing double protect stalling. 'lade is solid c rank material imo, all things considered (it's definitely not down there with grotle, that's for sure)
also nominating riolu for d rank because father needs to be reunited with son, and its follow me is the fastest in the game, allowing it to redirect any fake out and basically guarantee a trick room setup. after that, it dies easily, allowing another 'mon to come in to abuse trick room. it also gets feint (again) and the neat anti-meta priority sunny day.
also nominating riolu for d rank because father needs to be reunited with son, and its follow me is the fastest in the game, allowing it to redirect any fake out and basically guarantee a trick room setup. after that, it dies easily, allowing another 'mon to come in to abuse trick room. it also gets feint (again) and the neat anti-meta priority sunny day.
Whoa Gallade is in D Rank? Heck yeah it should be higher, maybe even B. It is great as a Trick Room setter, lacking the Dark and Bug type weaknesses most setters have (it even gets a attack boost if hit by Dark attacks), and Ghost isn't exactly the most common typing in Doubles. It is also great as a Trick Room reverser, has wonderful Feint access, a solid movepool including options like Ice Punch, Drain Punch, Night Slash, and more. Supporting C Rank for Gallade at least.
Supporting Riolu for D Rank, can't really argue for lower since it does have a niche, and its definitely not higher, so yep.
Okay. Here's a couple of mons I think should move rankings.
Reuniclus, up from B to A. Reuniclus IS Trick Room offense, being able to set up Trick Room AND abuse it. Other Trick Room attackers "need support" because they need somethng else to do the set-up and other Trick Room setters become a little useless after they have done their setting up job (think Amoonguss or Bronzong), and it wastes valuable turns switching them to something else. The only other thing that can compare is Chandelure with a higher special attack and Fake Out immunity, but Reuniclus is slower, bulkier, and better suited to two most dominant weather conditions, rain and sand.
Dragonite, down from B to C. We discussed it a while back and none of us could come up with a role where it was the best. The rain special attacking set is outclassed by Kingdra, Latios is the go-to dragon for Draco Meteor spam, and a bulky paralysis-spreading role is better done by Gyarados. Extremespeed is nice but there are more powerful priority attacks around that can actually hit stuff super-effectively, such as Bisharp's Sucker Punch and Breloom's Mach Punch. Therefore C because it is okay but outclassed.
Reuniclus, up from B to A. Reuniclus IS Trick Room offense, being able to set up Trick Room AND abuse it. Other Trick Room attackers "need support" because they need somethng else to do the set-up and other Trick Room setters become a little useless after they have done their setting up job (think Amoonguss or Bronzong), and it wastes valuable turns switching them to something else. The only other thing that can compare is Chandelure with a higher special attack and Fake Out immunity, but Reuniclus is slower, bulkier, and better suited to two most dominant weather conditions, rain and sand.
Dragonite, down from B to C. We discussed it a while back and none of us could come up with a role where it was the best. The rain special attacking set is outclassed by Kingdra, Latios is the go-to dragon for Draco Meteor spam, and a bulky paralysis-spreading role is better done by Gyarados. Extremespeed is nice but there are more powerful priority attacks around that can actually hit stuff super-effectively, such as Bisharp's Sucker Punch and Breloom's Mach Punch. Therefore C because it is okay but outclassed.
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I did mention the possibility for Tailwind on Dragonite since both its abilities aid it nicely in that role, so there's that.
Looks like I've got some work to catch up on. I'll check those out for you when I get a chance.
I don't agree with Reuniclus for A Rank, because 1) it is weak to all the things typical setters are weak to, and 2) only has 110/75/85 bulk, which while decent with investment, its not going to enjoy Dark Pulses off of Hydreigon, Night Slashes off of Bisharp, etc. The issue with Reuniclus is that it is incredibly predictable, it is always going to be setting Trick Room. Other common setters, like Chandelure, might be running Imprison + Trick Room, or maybe Scarf, but for Reuniclus, it is always the same. Not to mention Cresselia outclasses it to a solid extent at offensive Trick Room due to Ice Beam access. I vote Reuniclus stays at B.
What about Jellicent then? Jellicent can also set up TR fairly reliably, and can set up in the face of Politoed + Kingdra with ease (which Chandy most certainly can't) and can run a viable Scarf set because 60 base speed is just enough to outrun Latios and Thundurus, plus it gets the rare and powerful Water Spout.
Reuniclus fills a single role with a single set; an offensive Trick Room setter. It completely relies on team support in Rage Powder or Fake Out, or else it will be nuked by powerhouses.
Jellicent is pretty weak offensively and can only really fill the role of a bulky-trickroom-setter-attacker-ish, considering it's only real support moves are WoW and said Trick Room, Will-O-Wisp usually being a bad idea on a Trick Room team considering how valuable the 5 turns are.
Chandelure is weak to EQ and Rock Slide and Tyranitar (#1 in 1850 stats) takes a massive shit on it. So does Politoed, which is #3 in 1850 and #1 in reg stats. Combine that with pretty bad bulk and the fact that it only really works well in sunlight, you have a couple of pretty noteworthy flaws on this pokemon.
Generally, all these justify for B rank in my honest opinion.
Jellicent is pretty weak offensively and can only really fill the role of a bulky-trickroom-setter-attacker-ish, considering it's only real support moves are WoW and said Trick Room, Will-O-Wisp usually being a bad idea on a Trick Room team considering how valuable the 5 turns are.
Chandelure is weak to EQ and Rock Slide and Tyranitar (#1 in 1850 stats) takes a massive shit on it. So does Politoed, which is #3 in 1850 and #1 in reg stats. Combine that with pretty bad bulk and the fact that it only really works well in sunlight, you have a couple of pretty noteworthy flaws on this pokemon.
Generally, all these justify for B rank in my honest opinion.
Now I'm not nominating Reuni for B because I agree with those flaws, but saying Cress outclasses Reuni just because it has Ice Beam means you're completely ignoring Reuni's higher Special Attack, Magic Guard + LO for even more power, and Focus Blast so T-Tar doesn't shit on you (and it's slower than Cress).
Supporting Rotom-heat and Rotom-mow for B and C respectively. Both have a nice number of resistances and can be very useful in checking various weathers.