Breloom (Swords Dance) [QC 1/3]

JellyOs

JellyOs

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Breloom
I was playing around with a modified set from DW to make it viable in OU and it really surprised me.

[SET]
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Mach Punch
move 3: Stone Edge
move 4: Spore
item: Life Orb / Toxic Orb
ability: Poison Heal
nature: Adamant
evs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

-In a metagame full of Steel-, Dark- and Rock-type Pokemon, SD Breloom stands out as an efficient sweeper.
-He takes out the numerous Fighting-weak Pokemon in the meta, such as Tyranitar, Hydriegon, Heatran, Magnezone, Lucario, Kyurem, Mamoswine, Ferrothorn and Scrafty with boosted Mach Punches.
-This set tries to set up quickly by utilizing Spore and then proceeding to hit as hard as possible
-Stone Edge provides incredible coverage alongside Mach Punch, being able to hit Fighting resists super effectively and good neutral coverage. At +2 it also nets him an OHKO on a full health Dragonite.
-Spore is a wonderful move that allows Breloom to set up a Swords Dance and help its teammates if a sweep seems to be impossible.
-A Life Orb nets many KO's and provides a great deal of strength to Breloom, but a Toxic Orb could be used in place for great recovery, a status immunity, or to bluff another Breloom set.
-Breloom loves to set up on Pokemon that carry Toxic and a STAB move he resists. A good example of this is Jellicent, and any other bulky Water really, as he can switch in on a Toxic and take minimal damage from any Scalds, while recovering off the damage. One must make sure before taking any Scalds Breloom is poisoned as a stray Burn could cripple him for the rest of the match. Breloom must watch out for stray Ice Beams though, as they have the chance to KO him.
-One shouldn't underestimate Breloom's bulk. He is capable of surviving several priority attacks such as Choice Band Dragonite's ExtremeSpeed, Choice Band Scizor's Bullet Punch, and even an Ice Shard from a Life Orb Mamoswine! This lets Breloom come back with his own attack and KO the opponent. BE wary of taking these hits though, because once damage starts stacking Breloom will quickly perish from Life Orb recoil.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

-Several other moves can be ran over Spore, each with their own advantages. One must remember that Breloom will miss many an opportunity to set up though if he lacks Spore.
-ThunderPunch can be used to hit opposing Skarmory and Gyarados much harder than a Stone Edge, but its usefulness pretty much stops there.
-Superpower can be used as a move providing power to hits against many slower threats, but it's recommended because it lowers Breloom's already low defenses.
-Facade can be used as a general coverage move, but can only be used with Toxic Orb.
-Seed Bomb is a good coverage move that can be used over Spore to hit bulky Waters that carry Ice Beam. It also gives a good secondary STAB, hitting Reuniclus, Gliscor and Slowbro harder than Stone Edge would. It also stops Gastrodon, Swampert and Quagsire from walling Breloom.
-Lastly, Drain Punch can be used for recovery and a generally more powerful Fighting-type STAB.
-The mushroom can also run Jolly with 252 Speed EVs to outrun many defensive threats hovering around 244 such as Celebi, Gliscor, Rotom-W, and Jirachi. Going with 252 EVs and a Jolly nature also allow Breloom to outspeed up to neutral base 81. With this speed, Breloom can ease his mind of getting revenged so easily because of his middling speed while also outspeeding Adamant Gyarados and Dragonite to score KOs with Stone Edge.
-Breloom can come into a match and take relatively little damage, as he doesn't care about Stealth Rock or Toxic Spikes. Spikes can severely hamper his longevity, so Rapid Spin support is highly recommended.
-As a side note, Breloom loves to come in on Toxic Spikes, so if one feels the need to spin, make sure Breloom becomes Poisoned first.
-Breloom also loves something that can handle Skarmory well. Even though Skarmory fears the 2HKO from Stone Edge, it can still stop Breloom with a 4x super effective Brave Bird. For this reason Magnezone is an excellent teammate. Gliscor can also stop a sweep, so Pokemon with strong Ice-type attacks are recommended to be used alongside Breloom.
-One of the best possible partners for Breloom is Starmie, as it can handle both Skarmory and Gliscor with having incredible synergy with him too.
-Spikes and Stealth Rock support are a must if one wants to sweep, because many crucial KOs cannot be scored without them. Assuming Breloom is at +2, Ferothorn is OHKO'd with two layers of Spikes, Heatran is OHKO's with rocks, and even the bulky Chansey can be OHKO'd with two layer of Spikes and Rocks. Forretress is a good partner for this reason, being able to spin hazards and lay its own.
-A strong Pursuit user can also help Breloom succeed. Scizor is the exemplary partner because he can eliminate Ghosts as well as Latios, Latias, Reuniclus, and Flying-types such as Tornadus.
-Celebi, who normally walls this set, can also be handled easily be Scizor. Scizor must watch out for HP Fire though, so other answers like Gengar, Latios and Hydriegon are also available for this purpose.
-Tyranitar can also be used to fill the same role, although Scizor is preferred because Sandstorm only decreases Breoom's longevity.


This should be good for QC's now!
 
hey, this is a cool set, but i think the main reason one should be using an SD set is technician. i'm not going to say hold off, that's QC's job and stuff, but i think this is a lot more viable with technician.

analysis said:
While the big draw of Breloom is its devastating SubPunch sets, it's got a few other options that it can utilize effectively. Like a lot of Grass-types, Breloom has access to Swords Dance. This can make it an effective sweeper, as it has access to STAB priority in the form of Mach Punch, and also has decent two or three move coverage. However, it tends to lack in power, and the prevalence of Gliscor and Dragonite can cause severe issues for it.
Click to expand...
so i think waiting for technician to get released is the best idea, because that way, breloom can even beat gliscor (with bullet seed). this is by no means a bad set, though.
 
I was thinking the same until I tried it out in practice. A strong point in this set is also having your opponent switch a status absorber in but setting up and then starting a sweep. Something that I need to mention is only caring about Spikes because of Poison Heal and its typing.
 
I don't know about the slashes. How about:

move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Mach Punch
move 3: Stone Edge / Seed Bomb
move 4: Spore / Facade
 
Tomahawk9 said:
I don't know about the slashes. How about:

move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Mach Punch
move 3: Stone Edge / Seed Bomb
move 4: Spore / Facade
Click to expand...

I agree, the really only perk to using Breloom over a different sweeper (ie. Virizion, who lacks Mach Punch, but can hit hard with CC and has better speed, or Conk who has better bulk and hits harder with its Mach Punches, though lacking Seed Bomb, which isn't that much of a loss.)
 
Sub actually tested really well, and I do like the recommendations so I think I'll just move sub to the last option
 
I tried this on my team with Jolly nature (link in the sig) outspeeding many standard Gliscor sets and Spore/SD/Seed Bomb/ Mach Punch set, and it really helps the team out.


EDIT: Toxic Orb is a must or at least a main slash, preventing status is one of the advantages this set has over the Technician version. Imagine a physical attacker that cannot be burned or paralyzed and actually benefits from being toxicated!
 
Toxic Orb misses a lot of 2hkos so in hesitant to use it and the power drop from adamant is really noticeable, and is beating gliscor that important after it has lost use?
 
Swords Dance is definitely a better version of Breloom for sweeping purposes, and I agree with JellyOs on the Substitute idea; sounds like it could work pretty well. I would also prefer Technician over Poison Heal because of the Mach Punch boost, though.
 
I don't know why techniloom was ever mentioned. It is not released. It is irrelevant.

Given that bulk up apparently works, on a Pokemon where I thought it wouldn't, Swords Dance definitely seems worth a try. But forgoing Spore? Forgoing Toxic Orb? Seriously? Play to Breloom's strengths, come on.
 
what i was saying about technician is that it makes this set a ton better. it's not out yet, and i feel like i would rather use a bulk up set because with breloom, it's so slow that the defense matters. however, i have not tried this set out yet, but i will try to soon.
 
I'm not sure how viable Substitute will be, you can just add that to AC or something, but I concur with Tomahawk's set.
 
As I've said, the power drop from Life Orb to Toxic Orb is incredible. If someone wants a more defensive set, I encourage the use of Bulk Up or SubPunch, but that isn't this set. The goal here is to switch in as and set up an SD, Spore the income, or make a Sub then use the appropriate attack. I know Toxic Orb is great and it's a very viable option, but I strongly believe that Life Orb should be primary because without it it loses OHKO's on Tran with Mach Punch, OHKO on Dragonite through Multiscale, OHKO on Ferro, OHKO on 252 HP Latias, and most importantly, the 2HKO with Mach Punch on CB Scizor. Toxic Orb is a really good item for Breloom, but maybe not so much for this set. I completely agree with Spore on this set and if Sub is generally disagreed on I'll move it.
 
Since you are adamant on keeping the Life Orb, I discourage the use of Substitute since you're barely getting any sweeping time.
 
It's too early for Swords Dance. Poison Heal has no business Swords Dancing. It doesn't have the staying power Bulk Up has nor is it even remotely as powerful as DW Techniloom. I can tell you from experience that without Technician, Swords Dance is not worth it. The main selling point of the set, Mach Punch, is just too weak to OHKO Pokemon that it can't hit Super Effectively. And I mean trollingly too weak. Seriously.

Calcs for +2 Life Orb Mach Punch:
Code: 
Mach Punch vs. Kingdra (OU Special Rain Dance): 65 - 77%

Mach Punch vs. Rotom-W (OU Bulky Attacker): 65.79 - 77.32%

Mach Punch vs. Scizor (OU Offensive Swords Dance): 66.19 - 79%

Mach Punch vs. Scizor (OU Choice Scarf): 66.19 - 79%

Mach Punch vs. Haxorus (OU Choice Band): 67.54 - 79.8%

Mach Punch vs. Haxorus (OU Double Dance): 67.54 - 79.8%

Mach Punch vs. Haxorus (OU Dragon Dance): 67.54 - 79.8%

Mach Punch vs. Haxorus (OU Swords Dance): 67.54 - 79.8%

Mach Punch vs. Ninetales (OU Specially Defensive): 67.71 - 80%

Mach Punch vs. Alakazam (OU Substitute + 3 Attacks): 69.32 - 81.27%

Mach Punch vs. Alakazam (OU Offensive Calm Mind): 69.32 - 81.27%

Mach Punch vs. Haxorus (OU Choice Scarf): 69.38 - 81.97%

Mach Punch vs. Accelgor (OU Spikes): 69.86 - 82.45%

Mach Punch vs. Arcanine (OU Physical Attacker): 70.18 - 82.91%

Mach Punch vs. Chansey (OU Wish): 70.17 - 82.95%

Mach Punch vs. Chansey (OU Counter): 70.17 - 82.95%

Mach Punch vs. Breloom (OU Bulk Up): 70.62 - 83.43%

Mach Punch vs. Gorebyss (OU Shell Smash Sweeper): 70.63 - 83.73%

Mach Punch vs. Rotom-C (OU Offensive Scout): 71.37 - 83.87%

Mach Punch vs. Ferrothorn (OU Standard): 72.15 - 85.22%

Mach Punch vs. Porygon2 (OU Trick Room): 72.19 - 85.56%

Mach Punch vs. Eelektross (OU Mixed Attacker): 72.66 - 85.85%

Mach Punch vs. Rotom-H (OU Choice): 73.14 - 85.95%

Mach Punch vs. Rotom-W (OU Choice): 73.14 - 85.95%

Mach Punch vs. Rotom-C (OU Choice Scarf): 73.44 - 86.3%

Mach Punch vs. Rotom-C (OU Choice Specs): 73.44 - 86.3%

Mach Punch vs. Rotom-W (OU SubSplit): 73.44 - 86.3%

Mach Punch vs. Ninetales (OU Sunny Day): 73.37 - 86.68%

Mach Punch vs. Cradily (OU Support): 73.4 - 86.7%

Mach Punch vs. Politoed (OU Choice Specs): 73.83 - 87.22%

Mach Punch vs. Politoed (OU Choice Scarf): 73.83 - 87.22%

Mach Punch vs. Kingdra (OU Mixed Rain Dance): 74.57 - 87.97%

Mach Punch vs. Kingdra (OU Mixed Dragon Dance): 74.57 - 87.97%

Mach Punch vs. Flygon (OU Choice Band): 74.83 - 88.41%

Mach Punch vs. Flygon (OU Choice Scarf): 74.83 - 88.41%

Mach Punch vs. Flygon (OU Mixed Lure): 75.08 - 88.7%

Mach Punch vs. Carracosta (OU Physical Shell Smash): 74.82 - 88.96%

Mach Punch vs. Virizion (OU Offensive Calm Mind): 75.92 - 89.19%

Mach Punch vs. Virizion (OU Swords Dance): 75.92 - 89.19%

Mach Punch vs. Carracosta (OU Mixed Shell Smash): 75.08 - 89.27%

Mach Punch vs. Cradily (OU Swords Dance): 76.59 - 89.89%

Mach Punch vs. Staraptor (OU Choice Band): 80.06 - 94.53%

Mach Punch vs. Staraptor (OU Choice Scarf): 80.06 - 94.53%

Mach Punch vs. Staraptor (OU Life Orb): 80.06 - 94.53%

Mach Punch vs. Ninetales (OU Special Attacker): 82.57 - 97.56%

Mach Punch vs. Ninetales (OU Nasty Plot): 82.57 - 97.56%

Mach Punch vs. Ninetales (OU Choice Specs): 82.57 - 97.56%

Mach Punch vs. Ludicolo (OU Special Rain): 82.78 - 97.68%

Mach Punch vs. Ludicolo (OU Swords Dance): 82.78 - 97.68%

Mach Punch vs. Infernape (OU Choice Band): 84.01 - 99.31%

Mach Punch vs. Virizion (OU Work Up): 83.9 - 99.38%

Mach Punch vs. Lilligant (OU Quiver Dance): 84.34 - 99.64%

Mach Punch vs. Lilligant (OU Sun UtiLily): 84.34 - 99.64%

Mach Punch vs. Infernape (OU Mixed Attacker): 84.3 - 99.65%

Mach Punch vs. Infernape (OU Swords Dance): 84.3 - 99.65%

Mach Punch vs. Infernape (OU Nasty Plot): 84.3 - 99.65%

Mach Punch vs. Ferrothorn (OU Choice Band): 84.33 - 99.71%

Mach Punch vs. Tyranitar (OU Mixed Attacker [Chople Berry]): 85.14 - 100.99%

Mach Punch vs. Tyranitar (OU Specially Defensive [Chople Berry]): 85.14 - 100.99%
Mach Punch comes oh so close to being a sweeping move. Unfortunately, close doesn't count in Pokemon. You can dent a threat, but not OHKO it without hitting it Super Effectively. But what's the point of using a turn to set up if you're never going to sweep?

Breloom's only gonna get one Swords Dance because of Spore, but with +2. you're not gonna do any sweeping. It's just a base 80 Mach Punch after SD. Techniloom only works because a SD STAB Mach Punch for it is a Priority STAB Close Combat. You can OHKO frail sweepers like Mienshao some of the time (% chance) but anything with half-decent bulk isn't going to be impressed.
 
I swept teams with SD Breloom in DPP - it does not need Technician to work, but I admit that it really appreciates Life Orb's boost. I am approving this set after playing with it more and flesh out the analysis. Thought Conkeldurr's +1 Mach Punch hits hard? Try taking Breloom's LO Mach Punch at +2.

Personally, I would give it enough Spe EVs to be faster than SubChargeBeam Magnezone (which has 231 Speed), and dump the rest in HP. Coincidentally, this gives Breloom a "Life Orb HP number." Breloom may afford to drop even more Speed. 209 is another good bench mark to be faster than min-Speed Rotom-W.

[replay]http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-Quality-Checker-vs-Eirik--2012-04-02[/replay]
 
If that's the case, I guess 230 to outrun max Spe Adamant Scizor... or 209 since not many Scizor run max.
 
I'll go 230 only so Breloom doesn't need to take a BP if Scizor switches in. I'll mention a bulkier spread that hits 209 in AC, but the 244 benchmark is so close and important to hit, so I'll say hitting that is definitely an option in AC.
 
Main Set:
  • Drop Facade and Substitute in AC.
    Breloom is too slow to use Facade on anytime other than on the switch, and it's generally not worth losing Spore. Although Substitute could ease prediction and nail fast mons with a strong Stone Edge, it really does not help letting this frail and slow Breloom to set up Swords Dance as well as Spore would. Spore just provides it much more opportunities to set up and sweep with Mach Punch.
  • I am tempted to drop Seed Bomb, as well, since it does not help weaken opposing Pokemon that can absorb Mach Punch and just allows Breloom to be easily be forced out. Keep it there, though, since it could come in handy at times. It does need a lot more support to remove Ghost, Psychic, and Flying-types, though. Make sure to emphasize the last point to explain why it is secondary to Stone Edge
  • 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe - any more Speed is rather useless / speed-creeping. The extra health can come in handy, since Breloom does have nifty resistances that it can capitalize on.
-Fighting priority is great right now with all the steels running around, not to mention Tyranitar and Terrakion, maybe even the occasional Kyurem
Click to expand...
  • A good portion of Steel-types are neutral to Mach Punch, thanks to their secondary typing, so it's not the best example. I would specify the Steel-types as Heatran, Magnezone, and Lucario. Don't forget to mention Hydreigon, which has drastically increased in usage.
-Rocks/Spikes help score a lot of crucial KO's like Tran and Ferrothorn
Click to expand...
  • Elaborate more: Rocks help score a Mach Punch OHKO on max HP Heatran after a Swords Dance. I would find a better example than Ferrothorn, since it needs multiple layers of Spikes before it is in +2 Mach Punch death range. Infernape loses to a +2 Mach Punch after SR + Spikes, for example
  • Move to AC; perhaps mention Deoxys-D and Mamoswine as good examples.
-Seed Bomb is cool for Jellicent and other Bulky Waters
Click to expand...
  • Make sure to mention that Bulky Waters without Ice Beam is still set-up bait against a poisoned Breloom without Seed Bomb, so the STAB is unnecessary.
  • Include why Stone Edge is better, as stated above
-Stone Edge is coverage and can OHKO Dnite through Multiscale
Click to expand...
  • Specify that this is after a SD boost, because I actually thought that Breloom could take out Dragonite on the switch before you said this
-Sub for prediction, Spore is Spore
Click to expand...
  • Move Sub to AC
-Only hazard that really hurts Breloom is Spikes, increasing his longevity
Click to expand...
  • you mean decreasing longevity

Additional Comments
  • This is an offensive spread, so no need for a bulky spread (unless proven otherwise)
  • Specify that the alternative coverage moves, such as ThunderPunch, Superpower, Facade, and Drain Punch goes over Spore, which is generally a more desirable move.
-Jolly if you hate neutral 80's
Click to expand...
  • You can follow your previous bullet point with this suggestion by saying, "with Jolly Nature, Breloom has higher Speed to better utilize its coverage moves, without fearing being outsped and knocked out."
  • Not only does Jolly let Breloom outrun neutral 80's, but it also lets it be faster than defensive mons like Celebi, Rotom-W, Gliscor, and Jirachi that are hovering in the 244 Speed region

Teammates
  • Mention a good check to Gliscor, Celebi, and Dragonite. ie: Mamoswine, Weavile, Abomasnow, Scarf Latios, and Scarf Kyurem comes to mind; basically Dragon or Ice-types.
  • Don't forget to mention SR user and / or Spiker that pairs well with Breloom.
-Skarm is a complete jerk
Click to expand...
  • Mention that Skarmory fears a 2HKO (or a crit OHKO) from a +2 LO Stone Edge.
  • Provide teammates that can handle Skarm. ie: Forretress can spin Skarmory's entry hazards and set up its own; Magnezone can trap Skarmory
Scizor and Tyranitar because they are the best Pursuiters in OU and can eliminate Ghosts easily
Click to expand...
  • Scizor and TTar doesn't just beat ghosts, but they are helpful for taking out Latias, Latios, and Tornadus.
  • Mention that Scizor is preferred, since TTar's sandstream does not mix well with Life Orb.

Once these changes are made, this set should be ready for approval. Feel free to rationalize with me, if you want to clarify your stance and what not.
 
Hmm, this set is really strange. Well, Mach Punch is useless tbh, Terrakion ? hey come on, your set doesnt have a great stab, you could at least use... drain punch ? For the last slot, seed bomb is the best one since you destroy slowbro, reuniclus if sleeping, same for mew and its better against gliscor. Well, your set is better in DW, but in Standard OU, im not sure this set would work. Breloom is too slow and need at least sub for an offensive version. Good Job tho
 
@Pocket, taking Ojama's idea, I feel like Stone Edge is necessary on this set, so I'm moving the Seed Bomb slash to Spore, because like in the AC, additional coverage moves go over Spore. SD Loom really can't do much with SD/Mach Punch/Seed Bomb/Spore because the coverage is really lackluster, and giving up the ability to OHKO Nite really diminishes this set's value. Just my reasoning, if you object, just voice you concern and we'll talk it over. Thanks for all the help with this though, it's really appreciated.
@Ojama, Loom is a bit slow to be sweeping with Drain Punch, and priority Mach Punch is the big seller on this set. I appreciate all you input and after testing a bulkier SD Loom with Sub yesterday, I feel like Sub hinder's Breloom because it can't use Spore to at least help its teammates. And yes, this is much better with Technician, but I'd rather leave the comparisons out because it technically doesn't exist.
 
To me, Spore is indispensable for this set, guaranteeing a free turn of Swords Dance to a frail mon like Breloom. If you think Stone Edge is a staple, too, then drop Seed Bomb altogether from the main set and mention it in AC.
 
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