Black & White Battle Subway Records

[yadazhai]

Seems to me like there IS only one viable team to use with Durant. Looks like Truant teams are going to be much more monotonous than trick teams.

Can we post streaks that are still going? I have a 105 Truant team and I haven't lost yet.

Whimsicott @ Focus Sash
Timid
flawless IVs
252 Speed
Taunt
Knock Off
Protect
Sunny Day

My lead. Nearly guaranteed to get a Taunt off and still be Taunted when Durant comes in. Protect because if I live after using Taunt and Knock Off, Taunt will wear off and Durant can be Protect stalled.

Durant @ Choice Scarf
Jolly
flawless IVs
252 HP/4 SpD/252 Speed
Entrainment
Superpower
Protect
X-Scissor

Durant is a deceptively powerful pokemon in the Subway, nuff said. Entrainment Truant is just OP when the AI rarely switches.

Dragonite @ Leftovers
Adamant
flawless IVs
Multiscale
252 HP/4 Atk/252 Speed
Dragon Dance
Protect
Substitute
Dragon Claw

The star of the team. I switch in, Protect (except if Durant gets killed after Entrainmenting), Sub, Protect, then DD + Protect stall until I'm ready to sweep with Dragon Claw. Sub lets me avoid priority and OHKO moves.

Should I remove Sub for Fire Punch? Nearly every problem I've had was against Steels. Only leaves a very painful weakness against Sash Horn Drill Rapidash, since Sash Garchomp can't OHKO with Outrage unless I'm not at full HP for some reason.

I've been running pretty much the exact same team as you for my battle subway run (Lost at 892), at 700something on my second try right now.

Your set on Whimiscott is probably going to fail you at some point.

1. You can't deal with Volt Switch and U-turn because you don't have Encore and took protect instead. The AI can easily U-turn away from Durant after fainting Whimiscott and serious screw you over with the next pokemon.

2. I think Sunny Day is not worth it over Memento on Whimiscott because any one of the many Flame Charge user will greatly mess up your team. You can't switch out Whimiscott, but you can't leave it in either. If you switch out to Durant, it will get KOed by flame charge. If you switch out to dragonite, you risk a burn, which will be almost a 100% guaranteed loss. If you don't switch out, then you have a +2 speed flame charge user that's faster than Durant and threatens to burn/annoy Dragonite.

3. Don't remove Substitute. It's the only thing that will keep you alive against stuff with Sash/Sturdy Counter/Metal Burst, which is not uncommon. It also means QC things don't instantly kill your dragonite. Since you can already stall out the PP of steel types with Durant and Dragonite, you don't have THAT much trouble with them.

4. I'm not sure why you're running 252spe on dragonite. If your Entrainment works out fine, then you're far faster than anything in the BS, even without any speed evs. I think shifting the speed evs to attack would be better so you can OHKO stuff without risking that they break your sub and leave you vulnerable to the next pokemon.

 

[vandslaux]

So take off Sunny Day and Protect for Encore and Memento? Except Encore is illegal with Memento iirc. Or am I thinking of Beat Up?

And how exactly do I use Protect Durant? I have no idea. I'm assuming Entrainment, switch to Dragonite, use Protect, then switch back on a Truant turn and spam Protect to stall things like Curse Registeel out of 16 PP, making the stall war with Dragonite significantly easier? I recently had a 95 turn stall war with a Curse Registeel, only winning by 6 Dragon Dance PP.

What do I do against Fire-types? Switching Durant into it is suicide when Whimsicott also draws Fire attacks (I wouldn't do it period anyway), and I'm risking things like Moltres breaking Dragonite's Sub with Air Slash and preventing me from setting up. Do I simply sac Whimsicott and Durant and put myself in a 1-3 situation, though I usually win these situations.

Also, is there anything I can do about Explosion? They still KO themselves if I use Protect.

And I also see the merits of Encore over Protect, as it still accomplishes not allowing the opponent to use Protect/Detect after using Taunt like what Protect is supposed to help accomplish.

And I'll change Dragonite's EV spread. I was thinking about that a while ago but I was too lazy to re-EV it, even though it is only one stat.

Also, what do I do if I Truant a lead Curse Registeel/Steelix/Bastiodon? I lose due to misplay? And I'm guessing they'll most likely Curse first turn, giving it away when I use Taunt? With Truant, they can easily outstall me.

Also, I really don't see anything I can do against Flame Charge users. Encore Flame Charge and set up Dragonite?

So Whimsicott and Dragonite should look like these?

Whimsicott @ Focus Sash
252 HP/4 SpD/252 Speed
Timid
Prankster
Taunt
Encore
Memento
Knock Off (prevents stuff like Quick Claw Emboar from wrecking me)


Dragonite @ Leftovers
252 HP/252 Atk/4 Speed
Adamant
Multiscale
Dragon Dance
Substitute
Protect
Dragon Claw

 

[yadazhai]

So take off Sunny Day and Protect for Encore and Memento? Except Encore is illegal with Memento iirc. Or am I thinking of Beat Up?

And how exactly do I use Protect Durant? I have no idea. I'm assuming Entrainment, switch to Dragonite, use Protect, then switch back on a Truant turn and spam Protect to stall things like Curse Registeel out of 16 PP, making the stall war with Dragonite significantly easier? I recently had a 95 turn stall war with a Curse Registeel, only winning by 6 Dragon Dance PP.

What do I do against Fire-types? Switching Durant into it is suicide when Whimsicott also draws Fire attacks (I wouldn't do it period anyway), and I'm risking things like Moltres breaking Dragonite's Sub with Air Slash and preventing me from setting up. Do I simply sac Whimsicott and Durant and put myself in a 1-3 situation, though I usually win these situations.

Also, is there anything I can do about Explosion? They still KO themselves if I use Protect.

And I also see the merits of Encore over Protect, as it still accomplishes not allowing the opponent to use Protect/Detect after using Taunt like what Protect is supposed to help accomplish.

And I'll change Dragonite's EV spread. I was thinking about that a while ago but I was too lazy to re-EV it, even though it is only one stat.

Also, what do I do if I Truant a lead Curse Registeel/Steelix/Bastiodon? I lose due to misplay? And I'm guessing they'll most likely Curse first turn, giving it away when I use Taunt? With Truant, they can easily outstall me.

Also, I really don't see anything I can do against Flame Charge users. Encore Flame Charge and set up Dragonite?

Encore + Memento IS a legal combination on Whimiscott.

That is how you use Protect Durant. Stall out the offensive move PP of steel type curse users and then just switch between Dragonite and Durant until it runs out of PP. Or, you can go for a Dragon Claw CH.

If you Memento the Fire type, they won't get the flame charge boost, so you can safely Entrainment with Durant. It doesn't matter if you're down 1-3 if Dragonite is fully set up.

Explosion is how this team is going to lose. There's nothing you can do about it.

 

[R Inanimate]

What are you trying in the Castle right now? Kind of refreshing to see someone else giving the latest Frontier some additional love...

I was pretty much using the same team I was using previously to reach 300ish wins (Bronzong, Duskull, Dusknoir), except that I had Pain Split instead of Forsight on Duskull. It made some battles easier, and provided some extra CP to throw around. I could skip every single battle that showed up with a Rock Slide lead, and still profit in the long run.

The problem with the team, however, would be that any small mistake will quickly send the team to its death. You have to prepare, calculate, and play out each battle in your head before executing the actions in battle. And also know when the risk isn't worth it, and to skip. Too many times I just forget about something like Zapdos 2 having Twister, and the CPU immediately sees it as an opportunity to luck hax me. I can see the team going a lot farther than 300, but the amount of attention I have to give to each battle is way more than what I have to put in for Battle Hall or Battle Tower battles.

I've been taking a bit of break from Frontier/Subway stuffs again since I haven't been able to get much further than 300 wins in Subway or Tower as of late. I'll likely give another shot at Castle when I return.

 

[procrastinatinpro]

Quick question:

I'm to understand that using a cheat device only so far as to help with breeding and training is fine, right? No giving a Pokemon an ability they don't get or anything like that. Just Easy Mode.

I only ask because I'm having difficulty with the RNG thing and I'm juuuuust about ready to say eff it and use the easy way.

That was already answered earlier in this thread. If you need any help with RNG though, there is a thread here that helped me out a lot and there's a nice guide I found that puts the whole process of doing simple RNGs very easily. Once you get the hang of the easy stuff, the more complicated stuff slowly falls into place. Earlier today Timer0 trolled me for a good 90 minutes before I realized what was going on, so just hang in there and make a legit team for Battle Subway so you can post your records here. Good luck :)

 

[Jumpman16]

Here's some stuff I did:

Here's record-breaking battle #614 in the Doubles Battle Hall...I think it's fitting that it came against Kingdra! Sorry TRE... 85-99789-32267

I'll post some Hall logs later maybe, "they're boring". The Eruptran Project was a mighty success though!

Official congratulations to yadazhai on his b2w2 record...I wasn't ignoring you buddy, thank you so much for your efforts and insightful posts. I am not sure I'm going to engage you in a "bw vs b2w2" race with my team vs. your Truant team. I was aiming for your 892 in between my Hall stuff but when you posted that you were back at 700 you kind of took the wind out of my sails, lol

 

[R Inanimate]

Very nicely done on your Battle Hall streak, Jumpman. I didn't really expect there to be a Pokemon better than Kingdra for Double Hall, and you managed to find one. Reading through the workings of how you ended up with the 4 Heatrans that you had was quite enjoyable. I look forward to seeing what sorts of teams you'll make for the Battle Frontier in the future.

 

[AuraRayquaza]

Here is my double battle record for bw1 (not much i know)

http://imgur.com/zivYb (sorry for the bad quality, but it is supposed to say 94.

My team.

Zapdos @ Electric Gem
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Tailwind
- Heat Wave
- Discharge
- Detect

I usually lead with Zapdos and Garchomp and spam the disquake combo. I can sometimes sweep team with these two. Discharge is obvious and has a 30% paralysis chance. heat wave is for grass types. tailwind is for team suppot if i have then chance to use it or it needs setting up.


Garchomp (M) @ Yache Berry
Trait: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Brick Break
- Fire Fang

I usually lead with Zapdos and Garchomp and spam the disquake combo. I can sometimes sweep team with these two. Yache berry allows me to survive most ice attacks in the game. EQ and outrage are good STABs. Brick break is to hit Ttar harder than EQ. Fire fang is to hit forretress and ferrothorn harder than brock break.


Scizor (M) @ Steel Gem
Trait: Technician
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- Swords Dance
- Protect

Scizor is for strong priority and can help with sweeping a weakened team if needed. Bug bite also hits psychics very hard. Swords dance is for setting up if i have the chance. Steel gem is for a stronger bullet punch if i need to ko something.

Solace (Tyranitar) (F) @ Chople Berry
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Rock Slide
- Crunch
- Low Kick
- Protect

Solace is my sand setter and helps Garchomp to abuse sand veil while dealing damage to pokemon who have focus sashes or very low hp. It is called Solace because she gave me the idea of using a Ttar instead of Abomasnow, which didnt really work well with my team. CHople berry is for living fighting attacks. Rock slide is my spread move that can also flinch the opponents. Crunch is a reliable STAB move. Low kick is for steel types.

 

[NoCheese]

So, my team of Truant Durant/Skill Link Cloyster/Rough Skin Garchomp finally lost, with a final streak of 546 consecutive victories.

The team and its strategy are detailed at length here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4340414&postcount=1903

I lost to Black Belt Harimao.

He led with Forretress. I used Entrainment on the first turn, he used the remarkably irksome Toxic Spikes. Since being poisoned would significantly impair Cloyster's set up, I decided to switch to Garchomp, whose Lum Berry would keep it unpoisoned while setting up. Garchomp set up nicely and kileld Forretress, but it laid a whole ton of hazards, including a second layer of Toxic Spikes.

Next out was Infernape. I was too clever for my own good and used Protect to block the lead Fake Out, which left me completely cold to the next turn's Encore. I should have just Earthquaked the first turn and been interrupted by Fake Out, knowing that after Fake Out, the AI would have Infernape try (and fail) Encore the next turn, letting me kill thanks to Rough Skin breaking the sash on the Fake Out turn. I didn't, and so ended up losing Garchomp.

Durant came back in and Entrainmented before dying to Flare Blitz, leaving me with Cloyster as my last pokemon. Cloyster came in, ate Spikes and Steath Rock damage and was poisoned by Toxic Spikes. It set up one shell smash on the Infernape's loafing turn, and then KOed with Icicle Spear, taking more Toxic damage in the process.

At this point, I needed something I could KO at +2 or I would lose to Toxic. Unfortunately, the third poke was Probopass, and it was game over for me.

Frustrating to misplay so deep into a streak, but I had some good luck earlier, including getting a desperately needed crit after a bad misplay on a Speed Boost Yanmega (a huge threat to my team in the lead), so I was due.

A few notes on my overall impressions. First, in terms of speed-power balance, this team is wonderful. Battles go pretty quickly, one rarely needs to check the trainer-pokemon chart, and the team is remarkably consistent. It's obviously not as consistent as Yadazhai's team (gotta love that 892 streak!), but battles certainly go a lot faster.

Second, as you go you start to get a much better feel for which enemy pokes are actually threats. A lot of things look like they could cause trouble with a lead Protect or Fake out but either never use it, or can't do much after using it. I felt better and better at predicting the AI's approach as I went on, and feel that were I inspired, it might be fun to write up a guide to each possible lead a la Peterko's Cloyster/Garchomp/Suicune Guide.

Third, though I lost to hazard setting Forretress (a poke that I accurately noted as a threat in my earlier detailed write up), as I got further in the streak, I expected to lose to some sort of Brightpowder lead. Missing with first turn Entrainment is remarkably frustrating, and even worse was the one battle where I missed AND the opponent used Substitute to really rub salt in the wound. (I think it was Dugtrio 4, but I've played this streak over many days and it was a long time back so not positive now). Somehow I won the battle (mainly thanks to good matchups with the opponent's other pokemon) but it was clear that at some point this sort of thing was going to catch up with me. There's fewer accuracy lowering items in the Subway than the Frontier, but still enough to cause issues on long streaks.

Fourth is that Rough Skin Garchomp is the real deal. Rough Skin made several battles noticeably easier, and even gave me a double KO win in a 3rd pokemon matchup of my Garchomp against an opposing Focus Sash Garchomp (my getting stuck in this close of a situation caused by, what else, multiple misses on a Brightbowder pokemon earlier in the match). For Subway purposes, Rough Skin is a gigantic upgrade over Sand Veil for pretty much any sort of strategy, and if you haven't gotten one yet, I highly recommend going to the dream world and catching a Gible. You won't be disappointed.

I may try to play around with Entrainment some more (perhaps with my silly "two extra life" Substitute/Giga Drain/Focus Sash Lilligant), but honestly, much of the design space for Entrainment teams is already played out. It's going to be very difficult to build something more consistent than Yadazhai's Whimsicott/Durant/Dragonite (particularly given how, as shown by Jumpman, Whimsicott is probably the best crippler in the Subway and mono-attack Dragonite the best post-cripple sweeper). As far as a trading power for speed, I find it hard to imagine a Durant cripple team that's much faster than this team, given the inherent speed limitations of alternating Protects and the fact that Cloyster already incorporates the fastest set up move in the game. Perhaps the right Garchomp replacement could improve consistency slightly without reducing battle speed (allowing a new team to be superior in at least one dimension to teams already posted) but I've already done a fair bit of Garchomp theorymoning and its specific advantages are hard to replicate. Accordingly, it may be time for me to take a break from Durant for a bit.

Given how much I'm enamored of Rough Skin Garchomp, perhaps revisiting Garchomp/Suicune/Ferrothorn is in order...

Proof photo:
http://imageshack.us/f/585/img0505sd.jpg/

 

[yadazhai]

I've finally passed the 1K milestone in the battle subway with my Durant team.

Here's a summary of a battle in the mid 900s where the AI got some stupid luck, both in the battle and with the team picks.

Facing Lickilicky/Dragonite/Bronzong

Turn 1:
Whimiscott used Taunt
Lickilicky used Explosion
Whimiscott hung on with its focus sash

Turn 2: Trainer sends in Dragonite
Dragonite's QC activates
Dragonite used Fire Punch
Whimiscott fainted

(Whimiscott was supposed to use Knock Off to remove QC)

Turn 3: I send in Durant
Dragonite's QC activates
Dragonite used Fire Punch
Durant fainted

(Seriously? Two QC activations in a row??!)

Turn 4-15ish: I send in Dragonite and try to set up

His thunderpunch will always break my dragonite's sub, so I should not be able to set up very much on him.
However, the AI occassionally decides to use Earthquake for some silly reason, allowing me to get to +2 with a sub and ~60% hp. Thankfully, I did not get paralyzed by thunderpunch.

Trainer sends in Bronzong:
835 | Bronzong | Brave | Lum Berry | Safeguard | Rock Slide | Zen Headbutt | Trick Room | HP/Atk

Bronzong always want to have both a Safeguard AND a trick room up so between Protect and Substitute, I can waste all of his Safeguard and TR turns. Then, when he tries to set them up again, I get a free turn to use dragon claw to wear it down and eventually faint it.


I was quite fortunate to win this battle but it shows how scary Explosion can be for this team because it allowed Durant to get killed before it does its job. There's really nothing any cripple->set_up team can do against a first-turn explosion though...

 

[Jumpman16]

Well I wouldn't go that far...my Whimsicott takes only 61-72% from Lickilicky's Explosion thanks to Charm, and then Charms Dragonite regardless of a Quick Claw activation as well before dying to Fire Punch. I would then be able to take QC with Mesprit and get Dragonite in safely virtually every time since I'd be able to fully cripple it, giving it only a 2.5% chance of paralyzing/burning Dragonite with whichever punch on the switch (six Flashes, two more Charms and paralysis)...etc.

I was wondering why you decided to Taunt an all-out attacking poke until I revisited your moveset...I'm sure it is working for you but battles like this make you wonder if Durant really needs all that support! Gotta love the dumbass AI that decides to EQ pokes that it somehow "knows" have Roost...talk about your crystal ball backfiring.

Congrats on passing 1,000, that's quite an achievement regardless of what team is being used.

Very nicely done on your Battle Hall streak, Jumpman. I didn't really expect there to be a Pokemon better than Kingdra for Double Hall, and you managed to find one. Reading through the workings of how you ended up with the 4 Heatrans that you had was quite enjoyable. I look forward to seeing what sorts of teams you'll make for the Battle Frontier in the future.

Thanks, TRE (if I may call you that lol). I don't know how much better Heatran is than Kingdra...I found Kingdra to be the best 1v1 mon, and if I super cared about it I would do what I did with the Doubles Battle Hall and get my years-old #2 streak to #1 (there's a Chomp streak at 284 to my 263 Kingdra streak). I was not in the least surprised that you did even better than your Doubles Gyarados streak with Kingdra. As you know and as is possibly illustrated by the top two streaks in Singles Hall, Dragon types shine...and it is largely because opposing Dragons top out at 286 speed (Adamant Lv96 26 Spe IV Garchomp) and are easily OHKOed by their counterparts. Kingdra itself of course is only weak to Dragon, and though these characteristics are rather obvious to anyone who's familiar with pokemon, much of the theorymon starts here with the Hall (1v1 or 2v2), and I'd/we'd argue that the Hall can be almost completely addressed in theorymon.

So yes, it took both of us more attempts then we'd like to find pokemon+sideboards we were comfortable with with our choices, but I still really like Kingdra a ton. I didn't exactly like Togekiss any more than you do, as it only needs a couple of Brightpowder activations to wreak havoc with Aura Sphere, but my biggest headaches were the glut of Water/Grounds with BP or Lax Incense...which matter because they can all ohko Heatran. That's the beauty of Kingdra...nothing can OHKO it since it can easily outspeed (and kill) all Hall Dragons. It doesn't have to worry about 90% or 95% streak enders in Evasion items, where even Garchomp does as you know because of stuff like Piloswine and I guess Jynx.

Probably won't be doing too much Frontier stuff in the future, I love the Castle but I'm kind of tired of grinding in Tower/Frontier/Subway especially given my standards...I'd want to shoot for #1 otherwise "what's the point" (a part of me does remember that pokemon is supposed to be fun but it's a small part these days). I'd rather theorymon other shit that can own the Hall or give Subway Doubles a serious try...

I may try to play around with Entrainment some more (perhaps with my silly "two extra life" Substitute/Giga Drain/Focus Sash Lilligant), but honestly, much of the design space for Entrainment teams is already played out. It's going to be very difficult to build something more consistent than Yadazhai's Whimsicott/Durant/Dragonite (particularly given how, as shown by Jumpman, Whimsicott is probably the best crippler in the Subway and mono-attack Dragonite the best post-cripple sweeper). As far as a trading power for speed, I find it hard to imagine a Durant cripple team that's much faster than this team, given the inherent speed limitations of alternating Protects and the fact that Cloyster already incorporates the fastest set up move in the game. Perhaps the right Garchomp replacement could improve consistency slightly without reducing battle speed (allowing a new team to be superior in at least one dimension to teams already posted) but I've already done a fair bit of Garchomp theorymoning and its specific advantages are hard to replicate. Accordingly, it may be time for me to take a break from Durant for a bit.

Given how much I'm enamored of Rough Skin Garchomp, perhaps revisiting Garchomp/Suicune/Ferrothorn is in order...

Sorry about your loss, always sucks to see when people who've thought out their strategies and detailed them so thoroughly lose to bullshit. The trading power for speed thing really makes a huge different though, and is one of the reasons I tested a separate "Bullet Train" team idea of my own on a rom. I can confirm everything you're saying about Rough Skin Garchomp...I was using Sash Techniloom, Suicune and Garchomp and Suicune was dead and I had to face Weavile4, which has a Focus Sash. Garchomp was low on HP from taking on Shadow Ball Raikou (Balloon) and Breloom had its Sash intact after revenging whatever killed Suicune. Weavile came in and could have been real trouble because of Fake Out...you can't just use Bullet Seed in this situation even if you're sure the AI won't use Fake Out because then congratulations, you just got frozen by Ice Punch. But even with Mach Punch AND a Sash of my own, Weavile would have been able to beat me here if it weren't for Rough Skin (I don't remember what killed Suicune but I already know having two Ice-weak pokes doesn't do so well in the synergy department).

As it played out, there was literally no way I could have lost, and that's thanks entirely to Rough Skin. Weavile did use Fake Out, rendering my own sash useless, and then took the obviously Mach Punch to 1 HP with its own sash and killed me with Ice Punch. In comes a 20% Lum Garchomp. Trouble typically against Weavile right? Not when Weavile only has contact moves to hit you with and when Rough Skin takes effect before dealt damage. Weavile used Night Slash and died before I did, and I won relatively easily given the Weavile vs low-HP Lum Garchomp scenario.

I could even have switched to Garchomp from my 100% HP Breloom and won every time that way, since Weavile would had to have broken its sash on Rough Skin to kill Garchomp and then been vulnerable to Mach Punch. I didn't even need Sash on my own Breloom—even if I had been at 1% I would have realized a switch to Chomp was the best move since Weavile must break its sash to kill Garchomp which means it loses to Mach Punch every time. If I stay in with Breloom and die to Fake Out I lose but that's the only way to lose what on paper looks like a really shitty spot. I detail all this to give just another account of how awesome Rough Skin is. Things like Sky Drop Thundurus take 25% damage doing a Sky Drop U-Turn routine on a switched-in Garchomp where they would otherwise have taken no damage. Totally fantastic buff for it.

Strangely enough, No Cheese, I did try Chomp/Ferrothorn/Suicune when I was playtesting, though (first time I'd actually used Ferro too), and a Lead Crobat beat my ass in the like second battle lol. It was the NP one and I wasn't taking it too seriously so I switched to Ferro to Curse and it used NP and well without Lefties on Ferrothorn and with Air Slash being a non-contact move Crobat didn't need flinches to cause trouble. That Crobat is rare (Crobat2) but outside of Icy Wind on Suicune those three doesn't really like it so much! Also Ferro is kind of slow which is not what you're going for and I don't blame you. Good luck regardless!

 

[ashez]

Great stuff lads, keep it up :).

I bought a 3ds today so i'll hopefully be back here posting some streaks soon. Really missed the subway and really excited about B/W2 :).

 

[Cyberspeed]

A couple of quick questions before I start my run,

1.
I use a R4 to play a Jap rom.I got all the pokemon legit and have a legal cartridge,but I have no way to get it to the legal cart.Is this okay?Otherwise I might have to borrow my friends Ds and transfer it over,but that would mean I couldn't start til Monday.

2.
If you Trick someone a choice Item,they lock themselves into a Attacking move, and then you Disable them,will they stay in and Struggle?

3.
If you Trick someone a choice Item,they lock themselves into a Passive move, and then you Disable them,will they stay in and Struggle?

4.
If you use King's rock in conjunction with Rock Blast/Any multi hitting move,will it have a chance to flinch with each hit?

Thanks in advance for answering my questions.

 

[Jumpman16]

1. If you have a legit cart, you should really just be using that exclusively instead. We don't condone the use of hacking devices.

2. Yes.

3. I doubt it, but the biggest problem with this strategy, while nice, is that the AI can just switch the very next turn after you use Trick anyway, before you get a chance to Disable.

4. Yes, which is awesome. That means that you have on average a 27% chance to flinch with Rock Blast (if it hits), and a 41% chance if it hits five times. Doubleslap King's Rock Serene Grace Blissey with Thunderwave has a 54% chance of flinching which is pretty neat!


Anyway guys, I've been thinking about revisiting a simple team concept from Gen IV, and that's the All Choice Team. There are more than enough new pokemon and moves to refresh this idea. I used a CB Flygon/Scarf Scizor/Specs Starmie with modest success but the team really didn't like stuff like Curse Umbreon or Minimize Blissey, if I remember correctly. Carl sees merit in Latios because of Trick, and that would solve the statup problem essentially. And actually just now we were revisiting Advance's Tower teams and we recalled that Anabel's Raikou/Latios/Snorlax team, which has marvelous synergy anyway, may be pretty sick for an all-choice team:

Raikou@Choice Scarf: Thunderbolt/Volt Switch/Aura Sphere/HP Ice, Rash, 100HP/252SpA/156Spe (enough for Garchomp)
Latios@Choice Specs: DP/Psyshock/Surf/Trick, Timid, 4HP/252SpA/252Spe
Snorlax@Choice Band: Return/EQ/Crunch/Fire Punch (annoying bug/steels), Adamant, 252Atk/200Def/56SpD (kinda randomish whatever)

Status kind of sucks and I'd love to theorymon a team with Specs Magic Bounce Espeon on it but at least nobody cares about Toxic, Latios and Raikou take burn and Lax will "happily" take paralysis. Would be neat if Volt Absorb were possible (on Aura Sphere Raikou) but this may work...that's what Guts is for though I guess, too bad most Guts pokes leave something to be desired...Heracross and MH is ever disappointing, and even if I wanted to use it I'd want to Scarf it with Moxie for some CC/Reversal Shenanigans...which actually isn't that bad an idea...hm...

 

[Cyberspeed]

Thanks Jumpman,I'll transfer them over to my legal cart tomorrow.I just had the R4 Rom first and traded all my pokemon from Plat and before onto the jap one. Haven't had the time to transfer them over yet,but I will get to it.

 

[Chinese Dood]

I was using an all choice team a while back ( I haven't played pokemon in a while... ... I'll get back to it sometime).

I think it was:

Landorus @ Choice Band - U-Turn / EQ / Explosion / Rockslide
Magnezone @ Choice Scarf - Volt Switch / Thunderbolt / HP Ice / Flash Cannon
Starmie @ Choice Specs - Surf / Psyshock / Tbolt / Ice Beam

The synergy was there, but I think I lost badly to Choice Specs Alakazam somehow (I think a couple of my pokemon were injured already and Alakazam got a crit or two). Things that outspeed the whole team was not fun to deal with, as were those bulky set up pokemon.

 

[yadazhai]

Well I wouldn't go that far...my Whimsicott takes only 61-72% from Lickilicky's Explosion thanks to Charm, and then Charms Dragonite regardless of a Quick Claw activation as well before dying to Fire Punch. I would then be able to take QC with Mesprit and get Dragonite in safely virtually every time since I'd be able to fully cripple it, giving it only a 2.5% chance of paralyzing/burning Dragonite with whichever punch on the switch (six Flashes, two more Charms and paralysis)...etc.

After thinking about it some more, I realize it was a misplay on my part to use Knock Off against dragonite. Since -2 fire punch can't KO Durant without a crit and memento has priority over QC, I should've just used Memento. Knock Off = (.2)(.2) chance that durant dies because of 2xQC. Memento = (.2)(.05) that durant dies because draggy needs to get both QC and Crit on the next turn to beat durant.

(Status from Punch)(Accuracy)(QC) = (.1)(1/3)(1/5) = 1/150 (not 2.5%) that your dragonite gets statused.

On another note, this team is getting REALLY boring to play because of how incredibly repetitive it is, and I think I'm going to take a break from Pokemon for some time. While having 95% of battles play the same way is good from a consistency standpoint, it's the worst thing in the world when I want something different and new to do.

Jumpman and Peterko.... How the hell did you guys manage to win almost 2400 battles in Pt? I'm not even talking about the team building and in-battle decisions aspect, which was no doubt phenomenal. I'm talking about the sheer amount of time and concentration that you guys put into a 2400 battle streak, and all the times you lost before that final streak. Especially since it takes forever to set up a drapion or registeel sweep. Here I am at 1K battles, after only 1 notable loss, and it's becoming deathly-sleep inducingly boring to play already.

 

[Jumpman16]

My Mesprit would be able to take Quick Claw from Dragonite like I said, which is why it's a 2.5% chance. 10% Punch statuses, 33% it hits through six Flashes, and 75% chance it gets to move through paralysis comes out to 2.5% (also as a minor note the chance for a CH is 6.25%, not 5%).

As for your question...it seems you've run into the "give a shit" wall, lol. The way I managed to get to 2,364 in Platinum was because I had someone to chase, and there's really not much more to it than that. Think about it—would you have tried to get to 500 if it weren't for this thread and the records posted? Why bother trying to get to 700 for literally no other apparent reason than to prove to yourself how good your team is? And if that is truthfully enough, why stop at 1,000—why not go for 2,000, or 5,000, or 10,000?

Those numbers may sound a little ridiculous out of context but it's really all there is in the end. Peterko is better equipped to answer your question, since aside from some semi-paranoid fear that I was on his tail when he was at 1,600 and 1,700 and 1,800 he gladly played past 1,800 with his Latias/Registeel/Garchomp like 35 battles a day like 7-8 weeks after i posted was at 1,000. Looking back, he did 448 battles in a four-day span once in August 2009, which took him to around 658, which is "a lot" for a trickscarf team to say the least.

So it's really about how much you care about getting a certain number, but we all have different motivations. If you care about me breaking 1,000 in BW and surpassing where you say you are you can keep playing, especially if you don't believe me when I say I haven't touched the Subway since I posted three weeks ago, but that's up to you (especially since b2w2 records are recognized differently).

 

[cant say]

Explosion is how this team is going to lose. There's nothing you can do about it.

I thought I had a nice team going with this:

Kevin (Durant) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Truant
EV's: 4HP / 252 Attack / 252 Speed
Jolly (+Speed / -Satk)

-Entrainment
-X scissor
-Iron Head
-Super Power

Smeargle @ Leftovers
Trait: Moody
EV's: 252HP / 4Def / 252 Speed
Timid (+Speed / -Attack)

-Protect
-Taunt
-Acupressure
-Baton Pass

Sigilyph @ Life Orb
Trait: Magic Guard
EV's: 252HP / 4Def / 252 Speed
Modest (+Satk / -Atk)

-Stores Power
-Shadow Ball
-Focus Blast
-Cosmic Power


Obviously entrainment with Durant, switch in Smeargle, boost everything with acupressure and moody, then pass to Sigilyph to destroy with Stored Power (Focus Blast for dark/steels, Shadow Ball for other psychics). Biggest issue was protect leads, although they weren't very intelligent, still annoying.
Anyway I didn't make it far, not even to the boss, I faced a Gigalith lead in like battle 18, I got entrainment off, then its stone edged my Durant, OHKOing poor Kevin. No worries though I send in Smeargle and tried setting up. I knew that I'd had to hit him twice with Sigilyph to break sturdy so I was going to switch in on his Earthquake, then attack on his truant turn and kill on the next. Except I didn't get that far, after 3 protected Earthquakes he decided to explode all over me. Smeargle was unscathed but when his next pokemon was Metagross I knew I was in trouble. I didn't know whether to switc or keep in Smeargle and hope I survive to get an evasion boost (or two). But a crit bullet punch sent Smeargle packing on the first turn. So I have to send in my unboosted Sigilyph in (game over). I got a shadow ball off but it did like 30% damage and he got a crit meteor mash and ended it. Pretty demoralizing loss so early on.
The battles were painfully slow though trying to set up everything so I don't know if I'll be trying again. I did like the truant protected baton pass chain though maybe there's a good combo out there..

 

[R Inanimate]

Sigilyph @ Life Orb
Trait: Magic Guard
EV's: 252HP / 4Def / 252 Speed
Modest (+Satk / -Atk)

-Stores Power
-Shadow Ball
-Focus Blast
-Cosmic Power

You do know that Sigilyph can't learn Focus Blast, right?

 

[cant say]

You do know that Sigilyph can't learn Focus Blast, right?

Ah really I didn't realise that. I hadn't as using my brothers cart (I'm playing through white again) so he must have hacked it. I've never used Sigilyph myself so I totally didn't know. There goes my credibility! Probably why the subway shut me down.
After actually looking into it I guess my only other option for the same set is Clefable (not looking too great so far, although at +6 stats all round...).
I'll be a little more careful next time

 

[ShinyPoke25]

Current team:


Whimiscott@Focus Sash
Jolly(252hp, 38 SpDef, 220 spe)
Ability: Prankster
-Taunt
-Encore
-Knock Off
-Memento

Durant@Choice Scarf
Jolly(252 hp, 18 spDef, 240 spe)
Ability: Truant
-Entrainment
-Superpower
-Rock Slide
-Iron Head

Tyranitar@Leftovers
Impish(252 hp, 176 SpDef, 80 SpDef)
Ability: Sand Stream
-Sub
-Dragon Dance
-Crunch
-Protect

Same two pokes starting it off from yadazhai's team, except 38 Def ev's moved to SpDef on Whimsicott to even out the defenses. Tyranitar is the sweeper on this team because of his great defenses, access to Dragon Dance, non-immunity move in Crunch and great ability in sand stream eliminating pokes with focus sashes. Currently passing the 100 mark so still a long way to go but wanted to share this team.

 

[yadazhai]

Current team:


Whimiscott@Focus Sash
Jolly(252hp, 38 SpDef, 220 spe)
Ability: Prankster
-Taunt
-Encore
-Knock Off
-Memento

Durant@Choice Scarf
Jolly(252 hp, 18 spDef, 240 spe)
Ability: Truant
-Entrainment
-Superpower
-Rock Slide
-Iron Head

Tyranitar@Leftovers
Impish(252 hp, 176 SpDef, 80 SpDef)
Ability: Sand Stream
-Sub
-Dragon Dance
-Crunch
-Protect

Same two pokes starting it off from yadazhai's team, except 38 Def ev's moved to SpDef on Whimsicott to even out the defenses. Tyranitar is the sweeper on this team because of his great defenses, access to Dragon Dance, non-immunity move in Crunch and great ability in sand stream eliminating pokes with focus sashes. Currently passing the 100 mark so still a long way to go but wanted to share this team.

Tyranitar/dark type sucks in a mono-attack team. There's absolutely nothing you can do against any cobalion in the non-lead position. They have a *4 resist to dark, get an atk boost every time you use crunch, and have fighting moves to OHKO tyranitar.

For example, how are you going to kill this?
938 | Cobalion | Brave | Sitrus Berry | Metal Burst | Sacred Sword | Quick Attack | Iron Head | HP/Atk

I don't think Tyranitar can 2HKO it with a +6 crunch so... you lose even if you have a sub up

 

[ShinyPoke25]

Tyranitar/dark type sucks in a mono-attack team. There's absolutely nothing you can do against any cobalion in the non-lead position. They have a *4 resist to dark, get an atk boost every time you use crunch, and have fighting moves to OHKO tyranitar.

For example, how are you going to kill this?
938 | Cobalion | Brave | Sitrus Berry | Metal Burst | Sacred Sword | Quick Attack | Iron Head | HP/Atk

I don't think Tyranitar can 2HKO it with a +6 crunch so... you lose even if you have a sub up

yeah im mainly just trying some new things other then a mono-attacking dragon haha

 

[Pika25]

Tyranitar's spread was 252 hp/176 defense/80 Sp def?

Durant's Superpower is probably your best bet against Cobalion. Lucario is on a similar boat.