Best Offensive Typing?

[TSPhoenix]

I'm asking because I haven't put these through a lot of testing and I'm hoping to revise my algorithms later on to make them more useful.

As is your program sounds like a useful tool and I wouldn't mind a copy myself. That said if it could account for usage (ie, Caterpie and Arceus are NEVER in OU matches) it'd be much more useful as nobody really cares about hitting Caterpie for Super Effective damage.

And some way to filter the results so you can remove types your Pokemon doesn't have access too and lock-in moves you definitely want like say Ice Beam.

 

[frogbandit]

Yea man that 123 Base Attack is completely useless for sure. But what do you expect, it's Electivire(lol)!

Yeah, Electivire is really only useful at the end of a baton pass chain, or getting a Motor Drive Boost. It has great type coverage (13 out of 17 types on its Mixed set) and its stats are not too bad, but not good enough to be very useful in OU. Its sort of sad, actually, that such a high base Atk has is wasted because of a lack of good physical moves, sort of like Flareon

 

[Lord Blood]

Electivire's stats are decent, it is just his lack of brute force and stat up moves that make him suck. Unlike something like Salamence, Gyarados, Tyranitar, and other real powerhouses, he has to rely on shaky SE hits that sometimes don't hit that hard anyway. Electivire really needs a crazy strong STAB move, or something like SD.

No no, just that Thunderbolt and ThunderPunch have 100% accuracy. Flamethrower has 100% accuracy. HP Ice/Grass also have 100% accuracy. Earthquake also has a 100% accuracy. The only thing that doesn't is Cross Chop which still has a respectable 80%. But, you're right they're all shaky SE hits.

Yeah, Electivire is really only useful at the end of a baton pass chain, or getting a Motor Drive Boost. It has great type coverage (13 out of 17 types on its Mixed set) and its stats are not too bad, but not good enough to be very useful in OU. Its sort of sad, actually, that such a high base Atk has is wasted because of a lack of good physical moves, sort of like Flareon

The funny thing about this is that when I was testing my team, I needed an Electric Pokemon for the team and I tested Electivire. Then I tested Jolteon and Jolteon's performance was very pleasing, more so than Electivire's. Electivire definitely needs like a strong Stat Boosting move or some powerful attacks, maybe something like Caveman Craze, increases Attack by +2 (Basically a swords dance) and Fire Blast would be nice. Maybe Close Combat would be a nice addition to make Electivire able to compete with Infernape.

 

[Califer]

As is your program sounds like a useful tool and I wouldn't mind a copy myself. That said if it could account for usage (ie, Caterpie and Arceus are NEVER in OU matches) it'd be much more useful as nobody really cares about hitting Caterpie for Super Effective damage.

And some way to filter the results so you can remove types your Pokemon doesn't have access too and lock-in moves you definitely want like say Ice Beam.

Yeah, it's going to be a fairly complicated program. Right now that's all just debugging output and it's not ready for use at all. It's only a small portion of what I'm making and it's main purpose is to help choose what HP would be best. I just decided to throw all the types in to see what'd happen.

I'm going to be adding in tiers and such as well and a number of other things. When I have a basic version ready I'll put up a post to let people download it and make requests.

 

[scorchedsky]

The last subtopic at the end of the article explains exactly how you can compare moves together. Seems like you haven't reached till the end of the article! :)

I know how to compare moves of different BPs in specific cases, I actually used your data before it was an article in the Skymin suspect test to see how effective Seed Flare was v. Heatran's Fire Blast :-p

It was more of a question of how moves existing impacts their effectiveness...for example, if there were better Ghost moves, would Ghost be more or less effective in general? If Close Combat didn't exist, maybe more fighting-weak pokemon would be viable, and fighting would be a "better" attacking type. Or would the absence of Close Combat mean fighting resists are more valuable for whatever reason?

As it stands now, you'd have to average the BP of all the moves used of a certain type (like %usage of fireblast * 120 + %usage of flamethrower*95, etc). This would give a more accurate picture of how damaging the attacking types are in general, as the hypothetical 100BP move used to compare them doesn't exist for every type.

 

[chenman333]

No no, just that Thunderbolt and ThunderPunch have 100% accuracy. Flamethrower has 100% accuracy. HP Ice/Grass also have 100% accuracy. Earthquake also has a 100% accuracy. The only thing that doesn't is Cross Chop which still has a respectable 80%. But, you're right they're all shaky SE hits.

By shaky I mean he doesn't always get them and they are still rather weak and when you put that with his rather poor defenses, it doesn't look that great for vire.

 

[Sei]

Dragon and Water. There was someone who said water type was very effective for sweeping and had ranked fairly high with a sort of heavy offence based team. Too bad there isn't physical 120 bp water type. Perhaps in 5th gen. Obviously Kingdra would've become a deadly sweeper if such physical 120 bp water move were to surface.

 

[RaikouLover]

Too bad there isn't physical 120 bp water type. Perhaps in 5th gen. Obviously Kingdra would've become a deadly sweeper if such physical 120 bp water move were to surface.

Waterfall in the Rain. Kingdra is a rain pokemon.

 

[Chii]

I have noticed one thing while reading the article about Type effectiveness.
It doesn´t include stab. For example, what attack would have a greater impact on the metagame: a non stabbed fire attack or a stabbed dragon attack, I feel like this must be taken into account somehow.

 

[X-Act]

I know how to compare moves of different BPs in specific cases, I actually used your data before it was an article in the Skymin suspect test to see how effective Seed Flare was v. Heatran's Fire Blast :-p

It was more of a question of how moves existing impacts their effectiveness...for example, if there were better Ghost moves, would Ghost be more or less effective in general? If Close Combat didn't exist, maybe more fighting-weak pokemon would be viable, and fighting would be a "better" attacking type. Or would the absence of Close Combat mean fighting resists are more valuable for whatever reason?

As it stands now, you'd have to average the BP of all the moves used of a certain type (like %usage of fireblast * 120 + %usage of flamethrower*95, etc). This would give a more accurate picture of how damaging the attacking types are in general, as the hypothetical 100BP move used to compare them doesn't exist for every type.

That would make me have to find every Pokemon's average Attack stat, STAB and average usage for every move. While the data to do this is available, it is a huge ordeal to implement. Not to mention that stuff like Grass Knot would be incredibly hard to do on its own...

I've always wanted to do this, though... but I never seemed to have the chance to do it.

 

[scorchedsky]

That would make me have to find every Pokemon's average Attack stat, STAB and average usage for every move. While the data to do this is available, it is a huge ordeal to implement. Not to mention that stuff like Grass Knot would be incredibly hard to do on its own...

I've always wanted to do this, though... but I never seemed to have the chance to do it.

With some limiting cases it doesn't seem like it'd be too ridiculous, and in theory it really shouldn't deviate too much from the already-available data. The only nasty things to implement seem like average attacking stats and STAB...but this kinda seems tough for pokemon like Heatran or something where you have to account for the different frequencies of Fire Blast, Overheat, Flamethrower, Lava Plume...the average BP of Heatran fire attacks is something like 107.97, while the average BP of Infernape fire attacks is 115.82.

So doing that for the other 50 pokemon in OU, with the other 16 attacking types...Grass Knot could be done easily enough by using its average base power on the OU tier though, no?

 

[Polywrath]

Fighting/Ghost is knows for great coverage.

For four moveslots I would go with
-Ice
-Electric
-Grass
-Fighting

Ice, Electric and grass git everything neutrally. Fighting round sit off hitting many pokes for SE damage that arent already hit super Effectively bu the three previouslt mentioned attacks.