BOOPI TO THE MOOOOOON
On a more serious note, wtf did this thing ever actually do to warrant being on the VR in the first place? I'm not particularly surprised it's dropping though.
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Resource BDSP OU Viability Rankings
- Thread starter dhelmise
- Start date
got its 10 minutes of fame walling Mamoswine
Garchomp is just more dynamic than Gliscor. Often times Gliscor is just a U-turn bot while struggling to come in, whereas Garchomp's high speed and ability to do big special damage with Draco Meteor and Fire Blast (often targetting Skarmory and Gliscor itself) have made it more threatening, both in Stealth Rock and non-Stealth Rock roles. Gliscor's Knock Off is annoying but not as annoying as switching into an unrevealed Garchomp.
People generally don't want to use a Pokemon that offers virtually no defensive utility, gets outsped by the best mon in the tier, and often struggles to claim KOs vs already weakened opponents. Generally, you'd rather use a Psychic type with better defensive utility like Latias.
Has a hard time vs offense + competes hard with Azumarill, whose secondary Fairy typing allows it to revenge kill Dragons.
In addition of what said Grabby, I will add further clues.
Gliscor kinda has the same timeline than Scizor. It is not that it is falling from grace, it is just that among all the pillars of BDSP, it is easier to take advantage of. By no means the mon is bad, I think you should rather see it as that with time we have a clearer view of its position in the metagame.
Same goes for Daunt, the difference is not big but between all the breakers we have around the A- rank. Breloom and Azu seemed higher to us as they have more variety and applications. Daunt feels more unidimensional. Also Daunt original value also came that against offense it was a good Feraligatr answer which sees less usage and applications.
About Zam, I think people should try to remind the last time they swept with it because the last time for me was
I tried my best, sorry!
More or less lmao ! On a more serious note, I personnally felt it has potential and it still has I think. In theory, Rotom-H would fit a niche between Ape and Rotom-W. Strong fire moves if they are not legion in BDSP are not easy to switch into even for Dragon-types but Heatran and Ape do it better and as a pivot Rotom-W offers far more utilty both offensively and defensively (while not dying to aqua jet). I.e, the requisites for it might be too big for it to be worth. That said, I am still a believer and I would not be surprised that in the future it comes back on radar, maybe if the configuration of OU would have changed.
Short noms
-> A to A+, Defensive slack off Ape saw a bit of a rise as a weavile check and was a very cool tech Huargensy showcased in SSNL and in PL. This really showcases Infernape's versatility as a mon as the offensive sets are still really solid. It's a nice departure from the usual 
and 
structures used to handle 
.
-> S- to A+, spdef Sciz is pretty spotty and it's inability to 1v1 CM Clef was kinda sad as there were more than a few instances where Clef kind of brute forced past a Scizor. Offensive Scizor is fine still. But if anything Scizor needs to run actual atk investment.
-> A- to B-, the Gator has only gotten worse over time, it had a 0% win rate and 8% usage in this past PL in the normal OU slots. DD is underwhelming and teams are more than equipped to handle Gator. It has a hard time fitting on many structures and there are better sweepers in the tier. It's inability to reliably beat Clef has always been something that worked against it. All the grass types in the tier and better offensive waters in 
, 
and 
have invalidated this even more. I'd go as far as saying this is a UUBL caliber mon. It is unviable and you might as well play 5v6 if you load it up. I have a hard time being convinced this mon is any good at the moment. If this mon gives u issues consistently, I'd call it a genuine skill issue.
-> A- to A, notorious fat destroyer Daunt is really damn good and maybe this is a flavor of the month thing. Had a pretty good winrate this past PL and something I've enjoyed running myself a handful of times. Extremely good at bullying BO/fat structures that lack Tangrowth and even LO Mixed sets can get past that with Sludge Bomb as well as easing prediction. Its STABs are extremely difficult to switch into. Granted it does need some help entering in the game or the user has to make hard reads.
-> A to A-, Breloom has mainly suffered from other grass types rising in usage that have good matchups against it such as 
,
, and 
. Still annoying in builder with that said because of spore and technician goes hard.
-> B+ to A-, Rose has shown its value with tspikes and sleep powder being annoyances to other teams. It is a respectable mon and can overwhelm the main hazard removers of the tier. Has a legit niche as probably the only notable good tspiker at the moment. (Nidoking with tspikes is ass)
-> A to A+, Defensive slack off Ape saw a bit of a rise as a weavile check and was a very cool tech Huargensy showcased in SSNL and in PL. This really showcases Infernape's versatility as a mon as the offensive sets are still really solid. It's a nice departure from the usual and structures used to handle . -> S- to A+, spdef Sciz is pretty spotty and it's inability to 1v1 CM Clef was kinda sad as there were more than a few instances where Clef kind of brute forced past a Scizor. Offensive Scizor is fine still. But if anything Scizor needs to run actual atk investment. -> A- to B-, the Gator has only gotten worse over time, it had a 0% win rate and 8% usage in this past PL in the normal OU slots. DD is underwhelming and teams are more than equipped to handle Gator. It has a hard time fitting on many structures and there are better sweepers in the tier. It's inability to reliably beat Clef has always been something that worked against it. All the grass types in the tier and better offensive waters in , and have invalidated this even more. I'd go as far as saying this is a UUBL caliber mon. It is unviable and you might as well play 5v6 if you load it up. I have a hard time being convinced this mon is any good at the moment. If this mon gives u issues consistently, I'd call it a genuine skill issue.-> A- to A, notorious fat destroyer Daunt is really damn good and maybe this is a flavor of the month thing. Had a pretty good winrate this past PL and something I've enjoyed running myself a handful of times. Extremely good at bullying BO/fat structures that lack Tangrowth and even LO Mixed sets can get past that with Sludge Bomb as well as easing prediction. Its STABs are extremely difficult to switch into. Granted it does need some help entering in the game or the user has to make hard reads. -> A to A-, Breloom has mainly suffered from other grass types rising in usage that have good matchups against it such as ,, and . Still annoying in builder with that said because of spore and technician goes hard. -> B+ to A-, Rose has shown its value with tspikes and sleep powder being annoyances to other teams. It is a respectable mon and can overwhelm the main hazard removers of the tier. Has a legit niche as probably the only notable good tspiker at the moment. (Nidoking with tspikes is ass)
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6th Slate of the Viability Ranking just dropped ! Some major changes since the last one:
Drops:
- TyCarter , Elfuseon and Huargensy got introduced to the VR council.
- As
Garchomp, 
Heatran, 
Latias, Scizor and Weavile, despite all the discussions about which of them are the best or the worst ones, will always remain the clear most viable Pokemon in BDSP OU, we decided to fuse the S- rank to the S rank. - Finally, we agreed to open more the C rank to newer or former Pokemon considered as niche but that can under certain circumstances be viable.
- Garchomp (from S- to S)*
- Heatran (from S- to S)*
- Latias (from S- to S)*
- Scizor (from S- to S)*
- Infernape (from A to A+)
- Crawdaunt (from A- to A)
Alakazam (from B+ to A-)
Blissey (from B+ to A-)- Roserade (from B+ to A-)
Raikou (from B to B+)
Gastrodon (from C to B-)
Aerodactyl (from UR to C)
Blastoise (from UR to C)
Cresselia (from UR to C)
Gyarados (from UR to C)
Yanmega (from UR to C)
Drops:
- Celebi (from A+ to A)
Gliscor (from A+ to A)- Breloom (from A to A-)
- Feraligatr (from A- to B)
Aggron (from B- to C)
Donphan (from B- to C)
Poliwrath (from B- to C)
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Nice to see Cress continuing its trend of flipping between UR and C each VR updateRises:
As for questions, why did Raikou and Alakazam rise? And what caused Celebi to drop?
Nice to see Cress continuing its trend of flipping between UR and C each VR update
As for questions, why did Raikou and Alakazam rise? And what caused Celebi to drop?
Celebi dropped because it's ability as an effective scarfer was overrated and current metagame trends have not favored it heavily and doesn't make nearly as much progress as one would think it does. It does still have some value against the many water types in the tier with that said.
While I did not personally vote for a rise in Alakazam, it's one of those high ceiling but low floor mons that requires good play on non HO teams where it's effectiveness is heavily tied into the user's playing ability more than other mons. Yes it can theoretically 6-0 fat teams if played correctly but the margin for error the Zam player has to pull that off consistently is much smaller compared to other breakers due to its typing being bad defensively and needs more help. Also sash Zam is hot garbage unless you are playing HO where it is otherwise just "ok".
Raikou saw a slight rise because it matches well into those clef-sciz structures and it's movepool is good enough to get by where it's would be switches don't like getting scalded and Pressure is nice for it in longer games. Keep in mind its ranking was already pretty low to begin with but it can work due to it's relevant speed tier being on par with the likes of Starmie. It can be somewhat difficult to get into the game with that said.
Nice to see Cress continuing its trend of flipping between UR and C each VR update
As for questions, why did Raikou and Alakazam rise? And what caused Celebi to drop?
About Celebi, in addition of what Carter said, I would also argue that Celebi is suffering from the little shift the metagame has leant lately. Double Steel cores are quite common which restrict Celebi to a U-Turn machine in those games while Tangrowth and Roserade bring far more utility. So it is rather the competition between the grass types that lowers the viability of Celebi that is not the way-to-go if you were looking for one anymore. In short, Celebi fits better in Offense that struggled lately.
Carter is far more knowledgeable than me about Raikou, so basically what he said. I would also argue that the metagame has perfectly adapted to the low raw power of Rotom-Wash as an Electric-type that Raikou can take advantage of.
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Astonished that Feraligatr got to B, also that you posted now jolly AND naughty as preferred natures. Imo adamant still better (even if you are slower to breloom, it's usually sashed) .You still ko weavile with one waterfall 100% chance without dance on the switch, and do More damage to scizor(offensive). Gator should still be A-
Also didn't know people still went bdsp here
Also didn't know people still went bdsp here
The problem is, as Carter has stated, is that there have been more relevant grasses in the tier that can switch in to check Gatr in comparison to earlier BDSP metas with the most common mon being Celebi. Gatr also struggles to compete with the likes of Crawdaunt who pretty much invalidates an entire playstyle, Starmie who has been rising for a while now, and Azu who has a decent dual stab coverage. Mind you that two of these three offensive threats can fend off Gatr.
If the meta was full of knock off Gliscors and Defog Scizors the meta would be very much in favor of Gatr, but Gliscor has fallen off and Sciz (while still not wanting to stay in on Gatr if it can) has gone for more punishing spreads and is also a better late game option for building. Even Heatran isn’t amazing for Gatr as there is a 30% Chance Gatr.
Under the right mons, sure, it can thrive, but it needs a lot more support now. There are mons that can both take a hit from it and revenge kill Gatr in a pinch.
That's because people aint running screens? SR?
I still have my point that Feraligatr should be A-, also he's mid sweeper, you dont throw it right at the beginning. Besides that, the description on the bdsp build Is wrong, tangrowth doesn't ohko with giga drain (at least the physically defensive set). 1 DD Is enough to cause trouble. The main thing Is finding the oppotunity.
Now this Is ignorance by me, but where Is the option on showdown to play bdsp? Didn't find it before. Joe many guys are playing it? Or just the council Is playing? Thanks!
BDSP builds have been off since the beginning of time. That’s just something we have to deal with unfortunately. BDSP OU is also challenge only
Gatr is B- because it has a niche in HO teams and it’s super hard to fit most other playstyles because there are other water mons that can do a good job in its place. At no point in my argument did I say that Gatr should be thrown out in the first 5 turns in the game. I just said that the way the metagame has been shifting has been very unfavorable for Gatr and the scarfers in the meta are equipped to take it on. There has been more Clefs running Twave which would shut it down. Tran can burn it or even beam it if herb. Washtom invalidates it. Scarf Bi can come in on it. Azu and Daunt can at worst chip it. Tang doesn’t even need to kill Gatr, it just needs a turn to knock off life orb. Most of these mons aren’t even uncommon to run into.
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Also, best way to get games is to either join BDSP cord and ask for games there or ask in RoA and pray to whatever god you believe in that you don’t get roasted for it.
Some nominations
Rises
: A- to A
Big fan of Togekiss, very versatile mon that can mold itself to whatever its team needs. Nasty Plot sets are very good at farming bulky squads, Choice Scarf is nice on and against offense, utility sets are rare but can be effective in the right MU, and Substitute sets are good but very underexplored I think. Typing and bulk are really solid especially in conjunction with all of the above, and Serene Grace bullshit is always capable of stealing games away. Very good mon.
: B- to B
Nowadays I feel like using alternatives to Gliscor is easier than ever, and Zapdos in particular is a solid alternative. Being able to check strong Water types such as Starmie and Crawdaunt is a huge point in Zapdos' favour considering how popular they are right now and how much damage they can cause by forcing out mons such as Gliscor. The whole "Zapdos can't hurt Ground types therefore it's bad" thing is overblown imo, since being unable to harm Ground types can be spun into Zapdos' favour, since U-turn on the easy Ground type can help bring in strong threats to Ground types, such as the aforementioned Water types, Weavile, and Latias. Also isn't setup fodder for SD Scizor and NP Togekiss, unlike Gliscor. Definitely better than everything else in B- imo.
: UR to C
If you want the in-depth explanation go read my post here but tl;dr for those who already read it or don't want to, Moltres can find a place on some stall teams as an alternative to Gliscor which distinguishes itself with its better matchups into popular mons such as Scizor, Clefable, Weavile, and all the various Grass types in the tier. It can act as a surprisingly solid Defogger thanks to Pressure and good MUs into a lot of hazard setters, or can spread burns reliably with Will-O-Wisp and Flame Body, making it somewhat of an in-between of Gliscor and Heatran. Absolutely hates Stealth Rock and mandates bulky Starmie as a teammate, but it can be quite effective when played smart. Honestly I think it's better than some mons currently in C such as Cloyster, Weezing, and Aerodactyl.
mandatory replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspou-1842268304-w8ym2u2jl9i2ef4lejt1thnfjwuk6w2pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8bdspou-722822
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspou-1946266728-etlpvx6jgdm4u8e5gs5m9rg598ehp9apw
Drops
: A to A-
The best Mew set imo is the 4 attacks set with expert belt, that set also happens to be the only Mew set that I think is consistently good. Base 100 stats across the board is very nice, but the mono-Psychic typing really lets it down many a time. Defensive sets feel like they often need to check stuff by the skin of their teeth, while offensive sets like Nasty Plot often feel easier to play around than they have any right to be. Very versatile mon, and it can do stuff that no other mon can thanks to its deep move pool and solid stats, but as I mentioned before, the 4 attacks set is the only time I think to myself "Oh fuck I'm facing a Mew".
: B to B-
We're all thinking it, don't lie
. Barely fits onto teams nowadays I find and struggles to consistently check anything well aside from Latias, too often it doesn't end up doing much in games and can easily feel like a wasted team slot.
: B- to C
Imo this thing's strengths were a bit overhyped when it was first put onto the VR. Feels surprisingly weak at times and choiced sets can be overly prediction reliant. Don't have much to say aside from that, mostly just the impression I've gotten from Medicham lately.
: B- to C
This mon, cute as it may be, is kind of bad. Struggles into double Steel cores, using Rest as a means of recovery can often be a momentum sink, not being able to carry Leftovers as much as it would like because it needs to check Crawdaunt really hurts it, especially in non Daunt MUs, and other bulky Grass types, namely Tangrowth and Celebi, are so often able to accomplish more. Just a very hard mon to justify running in my opinion.Drop Shaymin-Sky into OU if real.
: C to UR
Bro I can't remember the last time I saw this thing show up and actually do something in an important setting, just kinda sucks, I can't really think of much else to say tbh.
Oh and to UR because it would be funny
Rises
: A- to ABig fan of Togekiss, very versatile mon that can mold itself to whatever its team needs. Nasty Plot sets are very good at farming bulky squads, Choice Scarf is nice on and against offense, utility sets are rare but can be effective in the right MU, and Substitute sets are good but very underexplored I think. Typing and bulk are really solid especially in conjunction with all of the above, and Serene Grace bullshit is always capable of stealing games away. Very good mon.
: B- to BNowadays I feel like using alternatives to Gliscor is easier than ever, and Zapdos in particular is a solid alternative. Being able to check strong Water types such as Starmie and Crawdaunt is a huge point in Zapdos' favour considering how popular they are right now and how much damage they can cause by forcing out mons such as Gliscor. The whole "Zapdos can't hurt Ground types therefore it's bad" thing is overblown imo, since being unable to harm Ground types can be spun into Zapdos' favour, since U-turn on the easy Ground type can help bring in strong threats to Ground types, such as the aforementioned Water types, Weavile, and Latias. Also isn't setup fodder for SD Scizor and NP Togekiss, unlike Gliscor. Definitely better than everything else in B- imo.
: UR to CIf you want the in-depth explanation go read my post here but tl;dr for those who already read it or don't want to, Moltres can find a place on some stall teams as an alternative to Gliscor which distinguishes itself with its better matchups into popular mons such as Scizor, Clefable, Weavile, and all the various Grass types in the tier. It can act as a surprisingly solid Defogger thanks to Pressure and good MUs into a lot of hazard setters, or can spread burns reliably with Will-O-Wisp and Flame Body, making it somewhat of an in-between of Gliscor and Heatran. Absolutely hates Stealth Rock and mandates bulky Starmie as a teammate, but it can be quite effective when played smart. Honestly I think it's better than some mons currently in C such as Cloyster, Weezing, and Aerodactyl.
mandatory replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspou-1842268304-w8ym2u2jl9i2ef4lejt1thnfjwuk6w2pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8bdspou-722822
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspou-1946266728-etlpvx6jgdm4u8e5gs5m9rg598ehp9apw
Drops
: A to A-The best Mew set imo is the 4 attacks set with expert belt, that set also happens to be the only Mew set that I think is consistently good. Base 100 stats across the board is very nice, but the mono-Psychic typing really lets it down many a time. Defensive sets feel like they often need to check stuff by the skin of their teeth, while offensive sets like Nasty Plot often feel easier to play around than they have any right to be. Very versatile mon, and it can do stuff that no other mon can thanks to its deep move pool and solid stats, but as I mentioned before, the 4 attacks set is the only time I think to myself "Oh fuck I'm facing a Mew".
: B to B-We're all thinking it, don't lie
. Barely fits onto teams nowadays I find and struggles to consistently check anything well aside from Latias, too often it doesn't end up doing much in games and can easily feel like a wasted team slot.: B- to CImo this thing's strengths were a bit overhyped when it was first put onto the VR. Feels surprisingly weak at times and choiced sets can be overly prediction reliant. Don't have much to say aside from that, mostly just the impression I've gotten from Medicham lately.
: B- to CThis mon, cute as it may be, is kind of bad. Struggles into double Steel cores, using Rest as a means of recovery can often be a momentum sink, not being able to carry Leftovers as much as it would like because it needs to check Crawdaunt really hurts it, especially in non Daunt MUs, and other bulky Grass types, namely Tangrowth and Celebi, are so often able to accomplish more. Just a very hard mon to justify running in my opinion.
: C to URBro I can't remember the last time I saw this thing show up and actually do something in an important setting, just kinda sucks, I can't really think of much else to say tbh.
to UR because it would be funny
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2023 circuit is done so I'm sharing my thoughts on the VR as a whole because why not and because I was asked to submit one as well.
Everything is sorted alphabetically within each tier. Explanations below.
Everything is sorted alphabetically within each tier. Explanations below.
S
: Very good and strong, easy to fit onto teams and can almost always make progress throughout a match. Swords Dance is solid for breaking especially if there is no Clefable, Stealth Rocks provides solid team support on an offensively minded mon, and Scarf is nice speed control albeit a bit worse now than it was before. Helps teams play around tons of mons but can never risk actually taking too much damage else it falls into range of the myriad of attacks that can pick it off from decently high health. Loads of teams also carry tons of counterplay for it naturally so even if it makes progress versus something that checks it there will usually be other ways to deal with it.
: The best mon in the tier imo, easy to fit onto lots of teams and it provides so much utility through its movepool, typing, and abilities. Great combination of offense and defense which matches up well into so much of the tier and will almost certainly make progress throughout any given game. Mostly sticks to defensive sets but offensive sets are all so very strong, with the standard offensive Leftovers being solid and reliable, Power Herb being a nice lure for Waters, Specs being a fearsome breaker, and Scarf being hella underrated for its surprise factor and speed control capabilities. It's basically impossible to go wrong with Heatran in this tier.
: Very solid defensive piece for the tier who also doubles as a solid win condition that is very easy to slot onto teams. Checks a lot of stuff through typing, bulk, and Bullet Punch, and U-turn pivoting helps support many strong threats. Defog is kind of bad on Scizor but for some teams it's a necessary evil they have to accept. Offensive sets are also big threats when used right and can be hard to deal with once it checks are weakened, though they tend to be harder to fit onto teams.
S-
: Does one thing and it does it well. Weavile is a great revenge killer that also possess great breaking power thanks to its great STAB combination in conjunction with Choice Band. Putting it just below the other S rank mons because Weavile often needs support to deal with some of its checks as well as good positioning and the right clicks. Also completely lacks any real defensive utility and you know exactly what it will do when you see one at team preview.
A+
: Clefable, the ever-present cornerstone of many balance teams' defensive cores. Being able to check or play around big threats like the dragons, Weavile, and many setup sweepers thanks to Unaware in one slot is a very nice thing to have for many bulkier squads. Calm Mind makes it a great win condition with defensive utility throughout a game especially with the previously mentioned Unaware, but it also possesses other good forms of utility like Thunder Wave, Aromatherapy, even Wish which it normally relies on to heal itself. Magic Guard sets are also nice on occasion to limit hazards and status as a way of dealing with Clefable although I find them harder to justify running. Struggles hard versus Heatran and other Steel and Poison types but is otherwise a great defensive piece for many teams.
: Good STAB combination which threatens large portions of the tier in conjunction with U-turn to keep up momentum versus the stuff that does take your STABs well and Mach Punch for priority. Will usually take loads of chip damage from recoil and hazards throughout the game but will also leave big dents in its wake. And while Choice Band is the standard set, sets like Choice Scarf, mixed, and even defensive are all viable which lends Infernape a surprising degree of versatility when slotting it in on teams. Not the most common thing compared to the rest of the higher tier stuff, but still plenty good.
: No denying this mon's power and impact in the builder but it's also hard to deny it's taken a hit in effectiveness in recent times. Defensive checks like Scizor, Clefable, Heatran, and Blissey are all good and common which gives Latias a tough time breaking through defensive cores while revenge killers like Weavile and Starmie are as good as ever. It pretty much needs to be paired with stuff that can break past its answers such as Heatran or Magnezone, both of whom are good, but that heavy reliance on teammates in order to deal with the stuff that checks you makes it hard to see Latias as worthy of the S ranks.
: Specs has revitalized offensive sets and SpDef has done the same but for bulky sets. Good glue mon which can help play around a lot of good stuff while also being annoying to actually switch into thanks to its STAB combo and Will-O-Wisp. The "old" sets of Scarf and PhysDef are still good and viable but the other two sets are better suited to the current metagame. Hard to go wrong using this really.
: Starmie can be your angle or yuor devil. Defensive sets are a great part of many teams' defensive cores since it helps keep hazards off so reliable will also being a solid check to a good amount of threats in the tier. Oftentimes Starmie is a key part of hazard stack teams' core strategy, considering it's the only truly viable Rapid Spin user in the tier, as well as the lack of Ghosts. Offensive sets on the other hand are a big threat which can blow through many common defensive cores in the tier currently thanks to Analytic Hydro Pump and boltbeam coverage. The lack of defensive utility beyond answering Heatran limits this set to primarily being a revenge killer or relying heavily on pivots, so the big damage does come at somewhat of a cost. Also we all know the pain of missing a Hydro Pump that would have secured the game and losing your Starmie. Good mon.
A
: Solid physical water breaker with nice defensive utility. Weaker than Crawdaunt but arguably gets more opportunities to attack thanks to its good typing giving it more chances to switch in. That typing and extra bulk also makes it easier for teams to account for some mons like Infernape, Weavile, and dragons without resorting to defensive pieces. Mostly used on stuff ranging from HO to BO so it isn't seen on the increasingly common balance squads popping up but can still be found a decent amount. Belly Drum sets are fun but inconsistent.
: Fat breaker supreme. Nothing aside from a select few mons actually ever want to switch directly in to a Crawdaunt. Adaptability Knock Off is great at making progress even against the few switch-ins it does have and whenever it comes in safely it is usually taking a KO. Frail and slow as all hell but its typing is just good enough to take a key hit in a pinch and Aqua Jet patches up the offense matchups it would otherwise struggle hard against. Choice Band is definitely best since it doesn't take any recoil from using attacks which gives it the ability to pressure teams as hard as possible throughout a game. Life Orb sets are good for luring Tangrowth and being able to mix up your moves but the recoil makes Crawdaunt easier to revenge kill from all the recoil and hazard chip it's taking.
: In my last post I said that using alternatives to Gliscor is easier than ever right now. I still stand by that statement, but Gliscor is still very much the standard and for good reason. Packs a ton of defensive utility in one slot and is a very solid defogger with its solid matchups into common hazard setters. Utility options like Knock Off and U-turn are always nice to have too especially with the former's smaller distribution in BDSP. Where Gliscor falls short however is its massive weakness to common Water types, its propensity to be setup fodder for lots of bulky setup sweepers, and its difficulty in consistently making progress into the bulkier squads which have become more common. Lastly, while I'm not personally a fan of Swords Dance sets, especially those lacking Taunt, Dunoks and Elfuseon both managed to put in some work with it during circuit playoffs, so I'll give it credit where credit is due.
: One of balance and stall's biggest staples in the tier, Tangrowth helps these teams play around so many threats while also making solid progress with Knock Off, Sleep Powder, and Leech Seed. Being one of the few Crawdaunt switch-ins in the tier makes it hard to justify not using on balance and stall considering how much of a threat that mon is to those teams. Good Knock Off absorber in general especially since it doesn't often carry an item since Regenerator can at least make up the lack of Leftovers recovery. In general it can be deceptively good at sticking around for long periods of time if you're not aggressive enough it taking it down which makes it such a good mon.
: Doesn't see a crazy amount of usage but still very good in my eyes. Typing and bulk help it play around so many threats even if it doesn't hard counter a lot which helps contribute massively to some teams' defensive core which is nice on a primarily offensively minded mon. Nasty Plot can just bullshit its way past anything slower than it, Scarf is okay versus opposing offense but falls hard against fatter teams, and its movepool is deep enough to mess with some of its answers if it so desires. Priority can be annoying but most of its users can be played around easily enough for Togekiss.
A-
: Fuck man this is the last thing I'm writing, kind of tired of this now. Strong, fast, immunity to passive damage gives it a solid match up into more hazard heavy teams. Hates Scizor and Weavile being good and common and scarfers/priority also ruin its day. But being a special attacker who is good into Blissey is a good trait to have and it saw some use recently alongside Magnezone to patch up the Scizor issue somewhat. Hard to play properly and get the most out of it, but good when it's used right.
: The quintessential HO lead, gets rocks up early, prevents opposing rocks or defog, then boom-kills itself. Has more depth beyond that since it can also set up screens or even be used as an offensive threat itself on some HOs but for the most part when you see Azelf you think HO lead.
: Big fat special blob. Checks a lot of special attackers and even some physical attackers and provides good utility through Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave, Aromatherapy, and status absorption with Natural Cure. Good on balance and stall primarily but can maybe see use elsewhere. Could probably move it up to A rank but left it here in A- because using it outside of stall never feels good ya get me?
: The rare dragon type with a workable Weavile matchup. Really good into teams without fairies but struggles hard into ones that do (which is a lot of them). Good at turning the tables against offense but it really only gets one shot to actually pull anything off since once Multiscale breaks it becomes a lot harder to set up and go, so it really only makes an appearance once the game is about to end. Choice Band is also solid but harder to fit and Dragonite needs solid hazard support to be at its best.
: Good win condition especially since it has STAB which mauls Clefable but is often so respected for its strength at sweeping that people keep their checks as healthy as possible which limits its potential. Limited defensive utility so it mainly fits on HOs and offense but it can still make use of its typing from time to time to set up against mons like Scizor or act as a one time switch-in to Weavile. Very straightforward mon.
: Really good STAB combination which makes switching into Mamoswine a tall task at times but held back a bit by its relatively slow speed and weakness to loads of common priority moves. Also a solid check to the dragons thanks to Ice Shard picking them off easily and having workable physical bulk. Awkward to fit on teams at times but great at doing what it does.
: Mew's main strength is its unpredictability so scouting is always necessary to some degree but the all out attacking set is the only one which actually takes advantage of the opponent's need to scout. Defensive sets do their job fine but ultimately are much easier to play around and have to remain as healthy as possible in order to handle the stuff its tasked with handling. There are a great number of Mew sets which also have their purpose but are seen far less due to being more specific or being outclassed by something else which occupies that same role.
: Can tear big holes through structures relying on Clefable and Steel types but needs good predicts to make the most of it on top of good positioning. Has very limited defensive utility and is outpaced by quite a few offensive threats so it can fall flat against offense but its strength versus balance and most stalls (when running Focus Punch) can be very much worth it.
: Best spiker in the tier, Roserade's rise to deal with defensive Starmie has helped make hazard stack more common and more viable especially when it pairs so well with Starmie itself. Good check to Waters and opposing Grass types as well as the Fairies, the offensive/defensive profile for such a support oriented mon is nice for many teams. Sleep Powder is good at shutting down common switch-ins like Scizor and Heatran, but once it procs sleep it becomes useless versus the many Steels in the tier. Also good at punishing Trick and absorbing status from Rotom formes which makes it a great answer to them.
: Solid as a lead on HO and good on stall as a defensive piece but has trouble fitting on other structures most of the time. Being one of two viable spikers is a great trait to have though and it answers a good amount of things defensively on top of being generally useful with phazing capabilities. Wishes it could consistently run leftovers instead of needing Shed Shell to not be instantly removed by Magnezone.
B+
: Spore can be annoying and Technician Mach Punch is strong as hell but Breloom as a whole is kind of hard to justify worth using right now with the popularity of Grass type answers to it and fast Psychics who don't care too much about Mach Punch. It's lack of any defensive utility as a Grass type due to its frailty hurts it since it can't check Waters or Electrics as well as the other Grass types so it primarily ends up being used on offense which has taken a dip in popularity recently. Very good into bulky waters, especially Suicune, but generally not enough to justify using it over other water killers.
: The Scarf set which used to define Celebi took a massive hit once people realized how ineffective it was into the very common Steel types of the tier, and Celebi has had a lot of trouble finding its footing after that downfall. Has a lot of utility that other Grass types don't have access to like Stealth Rock, U-turn, and Recover, but in actual play it can be difficult to make meaningful use from said utility. Still a solid check to the myriad of waters in the tier but you'd be hard pressed to fit this onto teams a lot of the time.
: Team structures featuring Magnezone have seen a slight uptick in usage recently and honestly I think it's been overdue for a while now. While it did fall because of its inability to outright remove its primary target Scizor in one fell swoop, its mere presence on team preview means the Scizor player has to tread carefully to not get their Scizor trapped for big damage which makes the stuff Magnezone enables able to perform much better than they would otherwise. Still very good outside of trapping since its STAB combination threatens loads of common defensive pieces. Analytic is much more rare but it can be a massive threat when played right. Could probably have put it in A- but decided to leave it in B+ since its role is still primarily "the enabler" for other threats.
: Fat pure Water type which can blanket check a good portion of the tier thanks to its great mixed bulk and access to instant recovery. Fits nicely on balance teams and can shut down slow bulky set up sweepers with Haze, but doesn't actually do too much itself aside from sit there and click Scald hoping for burns or the occasional Ice Beam versus Dragons and Grasses. Also doesn't mind being burned too much because Marvel Scale is good and helps it blanket check physical attackers even harder (don't use Flame Orb Milotic though lmao). The Mirror Coat sets seen in playoffs were funny as hell but I wouldn't use them myself lmao.
: Fast, decently strong Electric type with access to Scald for Ground types? Pretty nice. Primarily fits on offense since it lacks a lot of defensive utility but its natural strength should somewhat make up for it. Specs is okay since it gives it the push it needs to really bust through stuff like Clefable, Gliscor, and Scizor immediately but it can be awkward to use and overly prediction reliant. Calm Mind is fine but usually needs a turn to actually do much and it usually can't afford to run Volt Switch on these sets so there goes any pivoting capabilities. I think my favourite set recently was Calm Mind with Shuca Berry which Boopi used a lot during summer seasonal as a means of not being instantly forced out by ground types.
: Hasn't been seen all that much recently but it's still pretty solid considering how much shit it answers or helps you play around. Regenerator gives it so many opportunities to come in an absorb a hit and either stay in and fish for a Scald burn or pivot back out to something which can handle the incoming attack without needing to worry too much about your health. Also very solid in terms of utility with access to Thunder Wave for speed control and Future Sight for supporting your team's breakers. Calm Mind is also solid since it can become a potent win condition and help you play around certain mons like Nidoking or Starmie after a boost. Slowbro has lots of moves it can run after the requisite Scald and Slack Off but it never feels like it's wanting for more than four moves in an actual game since it feels so good to play.
: Chances are you don't think about this mon when building your team, both in terms of using it and how you match up into it. You'll probably have a decent way of playing around it naturally, but despite that, it's still pretty good? Not many Flying resists in the tier like to actually deal with Staraptor so Brave Bird is a good move to click a lot of the time especially since it's so fucking strong (stronger than Rayquaza Dragon Ascent) so Staraptor can usually dent a team's defensive core pretty nicely for something else to benefit. Scarf is nice to increase the range of stuff it can threaten, while 3 attacks Roost helps it break past sturdier defensive cores by itself. Bird up.
: Suicune has the potential to choke out many games with its Sub+Protect shenanigans but it falls flat way too often now that people have come to terms with how to deal with it even if they don't pack strong Electric or Grass types in simply beating the hell out of it before it can get the chance to set up a bunch. This also doesn't include strategies such as PP stalling with super fat teams, phazing (albeit that's rather rare), or simply running Milotic. The reliance on Scald burns in order to check a lot of mons can also be a burden especially if they manage to knock Suicune into lower health ranges before it can proc a burn. The potential for Suicune does exist but reaching that potential requires a lot of work. I think the Sub+Roar set used by AquaticCarlie in circuit playoffs might be a good next step for Suicune.
B
: Choice Band Sacred Fire can be a bitch to switch into at times which is complimented nicely by Crunch hitting Fire resists like Latias and Starmie for big damage and Extreme Speed for picking off faster weakened threats. Where Entei falls short is Sacred Fire being its only truly good move to click which sucks when it only has 8PP on top of fierce competition with Infernape which makes it hard to justify using on teams.
: Fat breaker supreme 2: electric boogaloo. Has no real defensive answers similar to Crawdaunt and higher speed means it can check some stuff that Crawdaunt otherwise couldn't like Magnezone, (slow) Rotom-Wash, Breloom, Shaymin, while also possessing better matchups into Grass types in general. Heracross thrives into stall and balance matchups, but it falls completely flat into HO and offense, mostly being relegated to a sac versus the fast paced teams that outpace Heracross easily. I was considering moving this up to B+ because of the popularity of balance recently, but ultimately decided to keep it in B since it simply isn't seen much and its poor matchups into lots of top offensive threats right now.
: Scarf sets are nice on offense as a check to the myriad of fast Psychics in the tier while also being the only viable spinblocker in tier as well as having access to Ghost STAB in a tier with somewhat shaky Ghost resists. Other sets like Specs and Nasty Plot could also work but are generally much harder to do so since Mismagius doesn't check the fast Psychics without the speed from Scarf. Also has to be wary of Crawdaunt since it can usually claim an easy KO versus Mismagius locked into Shadow Ball.
: Sidegrade to Clefable who handles Steel types better and has access to Toxic. SpDef Water Absorb is also cool as a means of blanking the myriad of bulky waters in the tier and some special attackers like Nidoking and Starmie but realistically none of them are staying in to get hit with Toxic.
: If I were to describe Salamence in one word, it would be ''but''. Salamence is a solid special attacking dragon but Latias is faster and has a strong STAB move to hit fairies with. Salamence is a decent dragon dancer but Dragonite is better thanks in part to Extreme Speed patching up the Weavile matchup. Salamence is okay as a scarfer but Garchomp is faster and has a strong STAB EQ to make use of through the game. Did I mention Salamence is walled hard by fairies already? Because it is. Defensive sets are unironically where you'd be best off using Salamence since the other dragons don't gobble up its niche there.
: Slowbro but SpDef. Unlike the Bro however, Slowking is more of a fake answer to the stuff its meant to answer, often needing to hope they aren't carrying the right coverage move or that it doesn't get hit with it on the switch. Wants Calm Mind to deal with set up but also wants Thunder Wave to actually do something to them long-term, struggles to fit all the moves it wants unlike Slowbro who is usually is comfortable with whatever four it decides to bring.
: Alternative to Defog Gliscor that plays at a faster pace and has a better time into the tier's plethora of Water types, Scizor, as well as Flying types like Staraptor, Togekiss, and Skarmory. Both abilities are good, Static with contact punishing, and Pressure helps in longer games. Walled hard by Ground types but is often paired with stuff that takes advantage of them anyways so it's usually no big deal.
B-
: Very awkward to fit onto teams and use since it's a Water type which doesn't answer the usually stuff a Water type would be tasked with answering. Also possesses the worst match up into Magnezone for any Steel type in BDSP which makes it really tough to justify slotting on teams. If the Steel nerf hadn't happened it would almost certainly be much better but as it stands it's a mediocre defensive piece.
: On paper Gatr is a big threat, in practice it's easy to stop it from getting opportunities to set up or even attack. Even when it acquires a boost stopping it isn't the hardest thing thanks to scarfers, offensive checks like Azumarill and Crawdaunt, or common defensive pieces like Clefable, Tangrowth, and Rotom-Wash. Theoretically you could use it as a midgame attacker to take advantage of the threat of setup but in practice if you're doing that Crawdaunt and Azumarill are much better for that purpose. If you think this is a big threat I'm assuming you're either a newer player or someone who hasn't touched the tier since Celebi released.
: Quagsire but always SpDef and no Toxic. Sticky Hold is usually the standard to mess with Scarf Washtom but Storm Drain can work on occasion if you want it to handle Starmie better. If you want to see this thing be better than Quagsire then come play Ubers 
.
: A few months from now we'll be saying Jirachi should drop another rank again lmao. Very passive and doesn't accomplish much, but can offer decent role compression if needed. Main reason to use this is for a Steel type Latias check that can't be trapped by Magnezone.
: Imo the scariest thing in the tier once it has fully set up, but it's manageable because it has big issues actually reaching that point due to needing two turns of set up. Also singlehandedly makes Rain somewhat worth using.
: Rotom-Wash but you want to do better into water types at the cost of your defensive utility. Really only viable with choiced sets.
: Slow and has an awkward typing which leaves it vulnerable to tons of offensive threats in the tier. The bulky 3 attacks rocker set is probably the easiest to fit and best overall but Choice Band is also cool on occasion. DDance and Scarf might be usable but would you really bring them to an important game? Probably not. Really the big appeal to Tyranitar is sand chip and the fact that it's the only Dark type in the tier that doesn't have non existent defensive stats.
C+
: Big bulky thing which can wall a lot of shit but does a grand nothing in return. Lunar Dance is a hell of a drug though and it gives Trick Room some viability so there's that.
: Role compression beyond your wildest dreams but only really gets one opportunity to do anything on average.
: Feraligatr but much weaker and it has Taunt. Gets a few more opportunities to set up thanks to typing and Intimidate but the drop in power on top of losing a coverage move for Taunt really hurts it. Mostly will do things if your opponent doesn't know what exactly it does.
: See here and here for the explanation I'm not writing this down for a third time lmao.
: Crawdaunt copium for stall. Weirdly checks like half the tier but still suffers from lack of utility, relying on RestTalk for recovery and not fitting anywhere outside of stall. Can be funny on rain on occasion.
: Tangrowth but bad. Struggles to make meaningful progress most of the time, doesn't actually answer that much stuff, and relying on Rest for recovery is a big momentum sink for a mon like Shaymin.
/ 
: For when you feel like counter teaming me. Weather is a matchup fish of a team style that can work if your opponent is caught off guard. Rain's constant cascade of threats can make it overwhelming on occasion but for the most part it's a rather bad playstyle. Also blanks into Blissey.
C
: Fastest HO lead we've got but our hazard removal options tend to deal with it well so it struggles to keep up hazards and momentum.
: STAB Head Smash goes hard, very few things switch in safely and most responses will take massive chip damage at the very least. Horrible defensive typing and being slow as balls makes it easy to deal with though. Shoutout to the king Boopi_Bappi
: Gatr-like but make it a special attacker. Theoretically this thing goes harder than Gatr/Gyara once set up but like the other two the issue is actually setting up in the first place. Also worse into Clefable because Calm Mind exists.
: Screens HO lead for when you expect your opponent to bring non-screens HO. Deleted by Weavile.
: Half-convinced someone looked at HJK calcs + saw that it got Ice Punch and decided it was viable without ever actually using it. Medicham rarely if ever actually contributes anything of note to a match from my experience playing against it. Also I know usage doesn't equate to viability but I can't remember the last time this was used in a serious tournament since maybe the first BDSPPL. Honestly considered putting it in the UR section but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt for now.
/ 
: Torkoal provides more direct utility than Volbeat but Sun as a whole is worse than Rain so down a rank it goes.
: Neutralizing Gas is an awesome ability stuck on a mon who sucks in OU otherwise. Really only viable on select stall teams and even there it struggles due to a lack of reliable recovery.
: Specs Tinted Lens goes hard but you're quad weak to rocks which makes it high risk, medium to high reward.
Drop to UR
: Weak to hazards, has difficulty finding opportunities to set up, is easy to deal with even after it has set up, fits on next to no teams aside from select HOs. This thing sucks, get it out of here.
Weather Abusers
These four aren't worthy of being ranked especially since they have no niche outside of their respective weathers but I wanted to briefly comment on them regardless.
: Rain abuser that can beat bulky waters with ease and not weak to electric either.
: Physical rain abuser with poison STAB to break past grasses and can trade with boom in a pinch.
: Chlorophyll sweeper but is walled by non-Heatran steels because of lack of coverage.
: Better than Venusaur because of access to Weather Ball but still bad.
: Very good and strong, easy to fit onto teams and can almost always make progress throughout a match. Swords Dance is solid for breaking especially if there is no Clefable, Stealth Rocks provides solid team support on an offensively minded mon, and Scarf is nice speed control albeit a bit worse now than it was before. Helps teams play around tons of mons but can never risk actually taking too much damage else it falls into range of the myriad of attacks that can pick it off from decently high health. Loads of teams also carry tons of counterplay for it naturally so even if it makes progress versus something that checks it there will usually be other ways to deal with it.: The best mon in the tier imo, easy to fit onto lots of teams and it provides so much utility through its movepool, typing, and abilities. Great combination of offense and defense which matches up well into so much of the tier and will almost certainly make progress throughout any given game. Mostly sticks to defensive sets but offensive sets are all so very strong, with the standard offensive Leftovers being solid and reliable, Power Herb being a nice lure for Waters, Specs being a fearsome breaker, and Scarf being hella underrated for its surprise factor and speed control capabilities. It's basically impossible to go wrong with Heatran in this tier.: Very solid defensive piece for the tier who also doubles as a solid win condition that is very easy to slot onto teams. Checks a lot of stuff through typing, bulk, and Bullet Punch, and U-turn pivoting helps support many strong threats. Defog is kind of bad on Scizor but for some teams it's a necessary evil they have to accept. Offensive sets are also big threats when used right and can be hard to deal with once it checks are weakened, though they tend to be harder to fit onto teams.S-
: Does one thing and it does it well. Weavile is a great revenge killer that also possess great breaking power thanks to its great STAB combination in conjunction with Choice Band. Putting it just below the other S rank mons because Weavile often needs support to deal with some of its checks as well as good positioning and the right clicks. Also completely lacks any real defensive utility and you know exactly what it will do when you see one at team preview.A+
: Clefable, the ever-present cornerstone of many balance teams' defensive cores. Being able to check or play around big threats like the dragons, Weavile, and many setup sweepers thanks to Unaware in one slot is a very nice thing to have for many bulkier squads. Calm Mind makes it a great win condition with defensive utility throughout a game especially with the previously mentioned Unaware, but it also possesses other good forms of utility like Thunder Wave, Aromatherapy, even Wish which it normally relies on to heal itself. Magic Guard sets are also nice on occasion to limit hazards and status as a way of dealing with Clefable although I find them harder to justify running. Struggles hard versus Heatran and other Steel and Poison types but is otherwise a great defensive piece for many teams.: Good STAB combination which threatens large portions of the tier in conjunction with U-turn to keep up momentum versus the stuff that does take your STABs well and Mach Punch for priority. Will usually take loads of chip damage from recoil and hazards throughout the game but will also leave big dents in its wake. And while Choice Band is the standard set, sets like Choice Scarf, mixed, and even defensive are all viable which lends Infernape a surprising degree of versatility when slotting it in on teams. Not the most common thing compared to the rest of the higher tier stuff, but still plenty good.: No denying this mon's power and impact in the builder but it's also hard to deny it's taken a hit in effectiveness in recent times. Defensive checks like Scizor, Clefable, Heatran, and Blissey are all good and common which gives Latias a tough time breaking through defensive cores while revenge killers like Weavile and Starmie are as good as ever. It pretty much needs to be paired with stuff that can break past its answers such as Heatran or Magnezone, both of whom are good, but that heavy reliance on teammates in order to deal with the stuff that checks you makes it hard to see Latias as worthy of the S ranks.: Specs has revitalized offensive sets and SpDef has done the same but for bulky sets. Good glue mon which can help play around a lot of good stuff while also being annoying to actually switch into thanks to its STAB combo and Will-O-Wisp. The "old" sets of Scarf and PhysDef are still good and viable but the other two sets are better suited to the current metagame. Hard to go wrong using this really.: Starmie can be your angle or yuor devil. Defensive sets are a great part of many teams' defensive cores since it helps keep hazards off so reliable will also being a solid check to a good amount of threats in the tier. Oftentimes Starmie is a key part of hazard stack teams' core strategy, considering it's the only truly viable Rapid Spin user in the tier, as well as the lack of Ghosts. Offensive sets on the other hand are a big threat which can blow through many common defensive cores in the tier currently thanks to Analytic Hydro Pump and boltbeam coverage. The lack of defensive utility beyond answering Heatran limits this set to primarily being a revenge killer or relying heavily on pivots, so the big damage does come at somewhat of a cost. Also we all know the pain of missing a Hydro Pump that would have secured the game and losing your Starmie. Good mon.A
: Solid physical water breaker with nice defensive utility. Weaker than Crawdaunt but arguably gets more opportunities to attack thanks to its good typing giving it more chances to switch in. That typing and extra bulk also makes it easier for teams to account for some mons like Infernape, Weavile, and dragons without resorting to defensive pieces. Mostly used on stuff ranging from HO to BO so it isn't seen on the increasingly common balance squads popping up but can still be found a decent amount. Belly Drum sets are fun but inconsistent.: Fat breaker supreme. Nothing aside from a select few mons actually ever want to switch directly in to a Crawdaunt. Adaptability Knock Off is great at making progress even against the few switch-ins it does have and whenever it comes in safely it is usually taking a KO. Frail and slow as all hell but its typing is just good enough to take a key hit in a pinch and Aqua Jet patches up the offense matchups it would otherwise struggle hard against. Choice Band is definitely best since it doesn't take any recoil from using attacks which gives it the ability to pressure teams as hard as possible throughout a game. Life Orb sets are good for luring Tangrowth and being able to mix up your moves but the recoil makes Crawdaunt easier to revenge kill from all the recoil and hazard chip it's taking.: In my last post I said that using alternatives to Gliscor is easier than ever right now. I still stand by that statement, but Gliscor is still very much the standard and for good reason. Packs a ton of defensive utility in one slot and is a very solid defogger with its solid matchups into common hazard setters. Utility options like Knock Off and U-turn are always nice to have too especially with the former's smaller distribution in BDSP. Where Gliscor falls short however is its massive weakness to common Water types, its propensity to be setup fodder for lots of bulky setup sweepers, and its difficulty in consistently making progress into the bulkier squads which have become more common. Lastly, while I'm not personally a fan of Swords Dance sets, especially those lacking Taunt, Dunoks and Elfuseon both managed to put in some work with it during circuit playoffs, so I'll give it credit where credit is due.: One of balance and stall's biggest staples in the tier, Tangrowth helps these teams play around so many threats while also making solid progress with Knock Off, Sleep Powder, and Leech Seed. Being one of the few Crawdaunt switch-ins in the tier makes it hard to justify not using on balance and stall considering how much of a threat that mon is to those teams. Good Knock Off absorber in general especially since it doesn't often carry an item since Regenerator can at least make up the lack of Leftovers recovery. In general it can be deceptively good at sticking around for long periods of time if you're not aggressive enough it taking it down which makes it such a good mon.: Doesn't see a crazy amount of usage but still very good in my eyes. Typing and bulk help it play around so many threats even if it doesn't hard counter a lot which helps contribute massively to some teams' defensive core which is nice on a primarily offensively minded mon. Nasty Plot can just bullshit its way past anything slower than it, Scarf is okay versus opposing offense but falls hard against fatter teams, and its movepool is deep enough to mess with some of its answers if it so desires. Priority can be annoying but most of its users can be played around easily enough for Togekiss.A-
: : The quintessential HO lead, gets rocks up early, prevents opposing rocks or defog, then boom-kills itself. Has more depth beyond that since it can also set up screens or even be used as an offensive threat itself on some HOs but for the most part when you see Azelf you think HO lead.: Big fat special blob. Checks a lot of special attackers and even some physical attackers and provides good utility through Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave, Aromatherapy, and status absorption with Natural Cure. Good on balance and stall primarily but can maybe see use elsewhere. Could probably move it up to A rank but left it here in A- because using it outside of stall never feels good ya get me?: The rare dragon type with a workable Weavile matchup. Really good into teams without fairies but struggles hard into ones that do (which is a lot of them). Good at turning the tables against offense but it really only gets one shot to actually pull anything off since once Multiscale breaks it becomes a lot harder to set up and go, so it really only makes an appearance once the game is about to end. Choice Band is also solid but harder to fit and Dragonite needs solid hazard support to be at its best.: Good win condition especially since it has STAB which mauls Clefable but is often so respected for its strength at sweeping that people keep their checks as healthy as possible which limits its potential. Limited defensive utility so it mainly fits on HOs and offense but it can still make use of its typing from time to time to set up against mons like Scizor or act as a one time switch-in to Weavile. Very straightforward mon.: Really good STAB combination which makes switching into Mamoswine a tall task at times but held back a bit by its relatively slow speed and weakness to loads of common priority moves. Also a solid check to the dragons thanks to Ice Shard picking them off easily and having workable physical bulk. Awkward to fit on teams at times but great at doing what it does.: Mew's main strength is its unpredictability so scouting is always necessary to some degree but the all out attacking set is the only one which actually takes advantage of the opponent's need to scout. Defensive sets do their job fine but ultimately are much easier to play around and have to remain as healthy as possible in order to handle the stuff its tasked with handling. There are a great number of Mew sets which also have their purpose but are seen far less due to being more specific or being outclassed by something else which occupies that same role.: Can tear big holes through structures relying on Clefable and Steel types but needs good predicts to make the most of it on top of good positioning. Has very limited defensive utility and is outpaced by quite a few offensive threats so it can fall flat against offense but its strength versus balance and most stalls (when running Focus Punch) can be very much worth it.: Best spiker in the tier, Roserade's rise to deal with defensive Starmie has helped make hazard stack more common and more viable especially when it pairs so well with Starmie itself. Good check to Waters and opposing Grass types as well as the Fairies, the offensive/defensive profile for such a support oriented mon is nice for many teams. Sleep Powder is good at shutting down common switch-ins like Scizor and Heatran, but once it procs sleep it becomes useless versus the many Steels in the tier. Also good at punishing Trick and absorbing status from Rotom formes which makes it a great answer to them.: Solid as a lead on HO and good on stall as a defensive piece but has trouble fitting on other structures most of the time. Being one of two viable spikers is a great trait to have though and it answers a good amount of things defensively on top of being generally useful with phazing capabilities. Wishes it could consistently run leftovers instead of needing Shed Shell to not be instantly removed by Magnezone.B+
: Spore can be annoying and Technician Mach Punch is strong as hell but Breloom as a whole is kind of hard to justify worth using right now with the popularity of Grass type answers to it and fast Psychics who don't care too much about Mach Punch. It's lack of any defensive utility as a Grass type due to its frailty hurts it since it can't check Waters or Electrics as well as the other Grass types so it primarily ends up being used on offense which has taken a dip in popularity recently. Very good into bulky waters, especially Suicune, but generally not enough to justify using it over other water killers.: The Scarf set which used to define Celebi took a massive hit once people realized how ineffective it was into the very common Steel types of the tier, and Celebi has had a lot of trouble finding its footing after that downfall. Has a lot of utility that other Grass types don't have access to like Stealth Rock, U-turn, and Recover, but in actual play it can be difficult to make meaningful use from said utility. Still a solid check to the myriad of waters in the tier but you'd be hard pressed to fit this onto teams a lot of the time.: Team structures featuring Magnezone have seen a slight uptick in usage recently and honestly I think it's been overdue for a while now. While it did fall because of its inability to outright remove its primary target Scizor in one fell swoop, its mere presence on team preview means the Scizor player has to tread carefully to not get their Scizor trapped for big damage which makes the stuff Magnezone enables able to perform much better than they would otherwise. Still very good outside of trapping since its STAB combination threatens loads of common defensive pieces. Analytic is much more rare but it can be a massive threat when played right. Could probably have put it in A- but decided to leave it in B+ since its role is still primarily "the enabler" for other threats.: Fat pure Water type which can blanket check a good portion of the tier thanks to its great mixed bulk and access to instant recovery. Fits nicely on balance teams and can shut down slow bulky set up sweepers with Haze, but doesn't actually do too much itself aside from sit there and click Scald hoping for burns or the occasional Ice Beam versus Dragons and Grasses. Also doesn't mind being burned too much because Marvel Scale is good and helps it blanket check physical attackers even harder (don't use Flame Orb Milotic though lmao). The Mirror Coat sets seen in playoffs were funny as hell but I wouldn't use them myself lmao.: Fast, decently strong Electric type with access to Scald for Ground types? Pretty nice. Primarily fits on offense since it lacks a lot of defensive utility but its natural strength should somewhat make up for it. Specs is okay since it gives it the push it needs to really bust through stuff like Clefable, Gliscor, and Scizor immediately but it can be awkward to use and overly prediction reliant. Calm Mind is fine but usually needs a turn to actually do much and it usually can't afford to run Volt Switch on these sets so there goes any pivoting capabilities. I think my favourite set recently was Calm Mind with Shuca Berry which Boopi used a lot during summer seasonal as a means of not being instantly forced out by ground types.: Hasn't been seen all that much recently but it's still pretty solid considering how much shit it answers or helps you play around. Regenerator gives it so many opportunities to come in an absorb a hit and either stay in and fish for a Scald burn or pivot back out to something which can handle the incoming attack without needing to worry too much about your health. Also very solid in terms of utility with access to Thunder Wave for speed control and Future Sight for supporting your team's breakers. Calm Mind is also solid since it can become a potent win condition and help you play around certain mons like Nidoking or Starmie after a boost. Slowbro has lots of moves it can run after the requisite Scald and Slack Off but it never feels like it's wanting for more than four moves in an actual game since it feels so good to play.: Chances are you don't think about this mon when building your team, both in terms of using it and how you match up into it. You'll probably have a decent way of playing around it naturally, but despite that, it's still pretty good? Not many Flying resists in the tier like to actually deal with Staraptor so Brave Bird is a good move to click a lot of the time especially since it's so fucking strong (stronger than Rayquaza Dragon Ascent) so Staraptor can usually dent a team's defensive core pretty nicely for something else to benefit. Scarf is nice to increase the range of stuff it can threaten, while 3 attacks Roost helps it break past sturdier defensive cores by itself. Bird up.: Suicune has the potential to choke out many games with its Sub+Protect shenanigans but it falls flat way too often now that people have come to terms with how to deal with it even if they don't pack strong Electric or Grass types in simply beating the hell out of it before it can get the chance to set up a bunch. This also doesn't include strategies such as PP stalling with super fat teams, phazing (albeit that's rather rare), or simply running Milotic. The reliance on Scald burns in order to check a lot of mons can also be a burden especially if they manage to knock Suicune into lower health ranges before it can proc a burn. The potential for Suicune does exist but reaching that potential requires a lot of work. I think the Sub+Roar set used by AquaticCarlie in circuit playoffs might be a good next step for Suicune.B
: Choice Band Sacred Fire can be a bitch to switch into at times which is complimented nicely by Crunch hitting Fire resists like Latias and Starmie for big damage and Extreme Speed for picking off faster weakened threats. Where Entei falls short is Sacred Fire being its only truly good move to click which sucks when it only has 8PP on top of fierce competition with Infernape which makes it hard to justify using on teams.: Fat breaker supreme 2: electric boogaloo. Has no real defensive answers similar to Crawdaunt and higher speed means it can check some stuff that Crawdaunt otherwise couldn't like Magnezone, (slow) Rotom-Wash, Breloom, Shaymin, while also possessing better matchups into Grass types in general. Heracross thrives into stall and balance matchups, but it falls completely flat into HO and offense, mostly being relegated to a sac versus the fast paced teams that outpace Heracross easily. I was considering moving this up to B+ because of the popularity of balance recently, but ultimately decided to keep it in B since it simply isn't seen much and its poor matchups into lots of top offensive threats right now.: Scarf sets are nice on offense as a check to the myriad of fast Psychics in the tier while also being the only viable spinblocker in tier as well as having access to Ghost STAB in a tier with somewhat shaky Ghost resists. Other sets like Specs and Nasty Plot could also work but are generally much harder to do so since Mismagius doesn't check the fast Psychics without the speed from Scarf. Also has to be wary of Crawdaunt since it can usually claim an easy KO versus Mismagius locked into Shadow Ball.: Sidegrade to Clefable who handles Steel types better and has access to Toxic. SpDef Water Absorb is also cool as a means of blanking the myriad of bulky waters in the tier and some special attackers like Nidoking and Starmie but realistically none of them are staying in to get hit with Toxic.: If I were to describe Salamence in one word, it would be ''but''. Salamence is a solid special attacking dragon but Latias is faster and has a strong STAB move to hit fairies with. Salamence is a decent dragon dancer but Dragonite is better thanks in part to Extreme Speed patching up the Weavile matchup. Salamence is okay as a scarfer but Garchomp is faster and has a strong STAB EQ to make use of through the game. Did I mention Salamence is walled hard by fairies already? Because it is. Defensive sets are unironically where you'd be best off using Salamence since the other dragons don't gobble up its niche there.: Slowbro but SpDef. Unlike the Bro however, Slowking is more of a fake answer to the stuff its meant to answer, often needing to hope they aren't carrying the right coverage move or that it doesn't get hit with it on the switch. Wants Calm Mind to deal with set up but also wants Thunder Wave to actually do something to them long-term, struggles to fit all the moves it wants unlike Slowbro who is usually is comfortable with whatever four it decides to bring.: Alternative to Defog Gliscor that plays at a faster pace and has a better time into the tier's plethora of Water types, Scizor, as well as Flying types like Staraptor, Togekiss, and Skarmory. Both abilities are good, Static with contact punishing, and Pressure helps in longer games. Walled hard by Ground types but is often paired with stuff that takes advantage of them anyways so it's usually no big deal.B-
: Very awkward to fit onto teams and use since it's a Water type which doesn't answer the usually stuff a Water type would be tasked with answering. Also possesses the worst match up into Magnezone for any Steel type in BDSP which makes it really tough to justify slotting on teams. If the Steel nerf hadn't happened it would almost certainly be much better but as it stands it's a mediocre defensive piece.: On paper Gatr is a big threat, in practice it's easy to stop it from getting opportunities to set up or even attack. Even when it acquires a boost stopping it isn't the hardest thing thanks to scarfers, offensive checks like Azumarill and Crawdaunt, or common defensive pieces like Clefable, Tangrowth, and Rotom-Wash. Theoretically you could use it as a midgame attacker to take advantage of the threat of setup but in practice if you're doing that Crawdaunt and Azumarill are much better for that purpose. If you think this is a big threat I'm assuming you're either a newer player or someone who hasn't touched the tier since Celebi released.: Quagsire but always SpDef and no Toxic. Sticky Hold is usually the standard to mess with Scarf Washtom but Storm Drain can work on occasion if you want it to handle Starmie better. If you want to see this thing be better than Quagsire then come play Ubers .: A few months from now we'll be saying Jirachi should drop another rank again lmao. Very passive and doesn't accomplish much, but can offer decent role compression if needed. Main reason to use this is for a Steel type Latias check that can't be trapped by Magnezone.: Imo the scariest thing in the tier once it has fully set up, but it's manageable because it has big issues actually reaching that point due to needing two turns of set up. Also singlehandedly makes Rain somewhat worth using.: Rotom-Wash but you want to do better into water types at the cost of your defensive utility. Really only viable with choiced sets.: Slow and has an awkward typing which leaves it vulnerable to tons of offensive threats in the tier. The bulky 3 attacks rocker set is probably the easiest to fit and best overall but Choice Band is also cool on occasion. DDance and Scarf might be usable but would you really bring them to an important game? Probably not. Really the big appeal to Tyranitar is sand chip and the fact that it's the only Dark type in the tier that doesn't have non existent defensive stats.C+
: Big bulky thing which can wall a lot of shit but does a grand nothing in return. Lunar Dance is a hell of a drug though and it gives Trick Room some viability so there's that.: Role compression beyond your wildest dreams but only really gets one opportunity to do anything on average.: Feraligatr but much weaker and it has Taunt. Gets a few more opportunities to set up thanks to typing and Intimidate but the drop in power on top of losing a coverage move for Taunt really hurts it. Mostly will do things if your opponent doesn't know what exactly it does.: See here and here for the explanation I'm not writing this down for a third time lmao.: Crawdaunt copium for stall. Weirdly checks like half the tier but still suffers from lack of utility, relying on RestTalk for recovery and not fitting anywhere outside of stall. Can be funny on rain on occasion.: Tangrowth but bad. Struggles to make meaningful progress most of the time, doesn't actually answer that much stuff, and relying on Rest for recovery is a big momentum sink for a mon like Shaymin. / : C
: Fastest HO lead we've got but our hazard removal options tend to deal with it well so it struggles to keep up hazards and momentum.: STAB Head Smash goes hard, very few things switch in safely and most responses will take massive chip damage at the very least. Horrible defensive typing and being slow as balls makes it easy to deal with though. Shoutout to the king Boopi_Bappi: Gatr-like but make it a special attacker. Theoretically this thing goes harder than Gatr/Gyara once set up but like the other two the issue is actually setting up in the first place. Also worse into Clefable because Calm Mind exists.: Screens HO lead for when you expect your opponent to bring non-screens HO. Deleted by Weavile.: Half-convinced someone looked at HJK calcs + saw that it got Ice Punch and decided it was viable without ever actually using it. Medicham rarely if ever actually contributes anything of note to a match from my experience playing against it. Also I know usage doesn't equate to viability but I can't remember the last time this was used in a serious tournament since maybe the first BDSPPL. Honestly considered putting it in the UR section but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt for now. / : Torkoal provides more direct utility than Volbeat but Sun as a whole is worse than Rain so down a rank it goes.: Neutralizing Gas is an awesome ability stuck on a mon who sucks in OU otherwise. Really only viable on select stall teams and even there it struggles due to a lack of reliable recovery.: Specs Tinted Lens goes hard but you're quad weak to rocks which makes it high risk, medium to high reward.Drop to UR
: Weak to hazards, has difficulty finding opportunities to set up, is easy to deal with even after it has set up, fits on next to no teams aside from select HOs. This thing sucks, get it out of here.Weather Abusers
These four aren't worthy of being ranked especially since they have no niche outside of their respective weathers but I wanted to briefly comment on them regardless.
: Rain abuser that can beat bulky waters with ease and not weak to electric either.: Physical rain abuser with poison STAB to break past grasses and can trade with boom in a pinch.: Chlorophyll sweeper but is walled by non-Heatran steels because of lack of coverage.: Better than Venusaur because of access to Weather Ball but still bad.
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I don't play or most much anymore but I played this beautiful but flawed tier a lot and I have some thoughts.
Mostly I'm voting to keep things in their current tier. I'm not gonna bother writing about how I think they're as good as the current VR says they are - reason being it's been said already. I will, however, defend some of my propositions for rises/falls, but most importantly, my proposed unranked mons who should join the ranks of the VR. Also shoutout to igiveuponaname for posting first so I can steal his formatting.
Rises:
: A - A+
Sorry but dnite is nuts. If let dd without taking rocks, it will beat everything barring unaware clef with rocks up. Can even choose to lock itself into a not very effective outrage because in many cases its resistances aren't doing much back. In my opinion it's one of the best win cons in the game and the tier has its fair share of good removers.
: A+ - S-
Offensive has one switch-in and its name is Blissey. Not even restricted to running recover or rapid spin of defensive/utility sets. Defensive is debatably the best removal in the game right now and still offers super effective coverage or forces progress with burns. Personally I think offensive is better but is of course hard to get in but this tier has no shortage of pivots and doubles worth making.
: B - B+
Ok hear me out. Versatility. "What? on Mismagius? Who the frick is Mismagius?"
Scarf is good, specs is unexplored but probably good, sub is good, plot is good, bulky cm (I know, I know) is surprisingly decent. Access to pain split gives it value on turns it's checked by a switch-in, destiny bond can force a trade with a mon that might feel a little too good staying in on it, and it's the only viable spin blocker.
: B- - B
Fully set up critdra is the single most terrifying sweeper in the game, "oh but it needs to click 2 setup moves to get there not just 1," yea but it scares out popular meta mons and can afford to setup again in front of others with it's great typing and all around decent stats. Not to mention will kill your entire team if you happen to have a poor rain matchup (which I admit isn't that high of a bar).
: B- - B
Beloved ttar may have fallen in popularity, but has a versatility that shouldn't be underestimated. Whether it's an insane stat spread with coverage moves and rocks, ddance to break, or the surprise factor of choiced, Ttar might not be amazing but it's better than I think people give it credit for and I believe it deserves, albeit only barely, a slightly higher spot on the vr.
: B+ - A-
Incredible speed tier and base stats, coverage for ground types and is threatening to virtually every mon currently ranked higher than it. Calm mind with shuca put in a lot of work for me in recent tournaments, even 1v1ing chain chomp.
: C - B-
Purely because I think rain as a team structure is somewhat of a "B-" kind of team. Even outside of being a rain dance bot, volbeat offers pretty decent utility with prankster t wave, encore, roost and uturn.
: C - B-
Bulky demon. While set up is severely limited by lack of access to stored power, can still be a decent win con with surprising speed and coverage for something this bulky. Also offers great utility on TR if you were to be so bold as to use TR.
: C - B-
Don't sleep on dragon dance + taunt. If it wasn't weak to rocks I'd comfortably put it in B. Is really only hard stopped by washtom and tang. Is also flexible in its choice of ability with intimidate allowing it to set up easier and moxie allowing it to break or sweep easier.
Drops:
: A - A-
Fast and has utility but is at its strongest as a lead versus other hyper offense leads to taunt faster and despite decent attacking stats and coverage suffers from how squishy it is and often, its predictability.
: A - A-
Sorry Alley Cat. Pressure stall is so rarely a win con and is more annoying than it is good. Still, you could pick worse bulky set up mons and benefits from one of the better mono typings in the game.
: A - A-
Is it me or has gliscor turned into more of a do-nothing mon? Definitely benefits from access to knock which is relatively rare in this tier, hazards/removal and a speed tier that lets it creep some stuff but while sacrificing bulk and has a typing that makes it vulnerable in this meta and a movepool that can just freeze momentum.
: A- - B+
Very heavily prediction reliant, can be really hard to bring in safely, and not the best speed tier for an offensive mon.
: A+ - A
I'm kinda iffy on this one but I think it leans more A than A+. Washtom has been king in this tier at points and offers good utility at the same time as being either offensive or defensive. That being said, it doesn't have the best survivability, which is really my biggest issue with it. It may scare stuff out the first couple times it switches in but loses its ability to do so quicker than most defensive utility. Still good, I just think it's not on the same level as those currently in A+ and above.
: B - B-
I used to really like this thing but I don't think it fits into this meta as well as it used to. Practically forced to run adamant much to its detriment, not the easiest to get in and is fairly prediction reliant. Morbs fat and stall but is basically just a sack versus offense.
: B - C
Oh my god this mon sucks. Often I find that annoying mons are annoying because they're good. This is not one of those mons. I honestly can't think of a single thing it does well, and for that reason I'm voting it be dropped hard.
: B - B-
Kind of a do-nothing mon to be honest. If you want a worse Blissey with a chance to burn, be my guest though.
: B- - C
Very prediction reliant, basically forced to run choiced, still has too many switchins, and it's squishy.
: B+ - B
Mostly exists to trap and weaken scizor for something else on your team that loses hard to it.
: B+ - B
I feel like this mon is slowly losing its niche in the meta. Loses to most of the tier, just slowly sometimes.
: S - S-
I feel like everything in S can be checked or beaten, but usually narrowly, with versatility to adapt and overcome would-be checks. Those who know me would say I famously think this mon is trash, but even I can admit that it can be one of the scariest mons to face. That being said, emphasis on the "can be," because everything else in S IS ALWAYS terrifying to face. Losing to lati is understandable, but might just be a builder issue.
: S - S-
Similar reasoning to lati. Also, loses to like every other priority user in the game. Certainly an amazing mon but I think easier to check than other S tiers.
New Additions:
: UR - C
I never thought much of this thing but Igiveup proved it can be good on stall and won a lot using it so hey, C, hell yea chicken man.
: UR - B-
Curse is phenomenal and did a lot for me in tournaments in 2023. Can remove abilities and sleep through being attacked, this guy's great. At worst, he's spreading para and being annoying. IDK what else to say, I just love this guy and have seen it just win on preview.
: UR - C
Offensive is pretty cheeks but is the best perish trapper in BDSP. Hard wins vs. stall, might struggle a bit more vs. more offensive teams and volt turn but freeze dry and perish trap often, at worst, trade which is something.
: UR - C
Sometimes, it just puts in that work, you know? Choiced has good coverage at the cost of weaker stats than some other dragons in the tier in exchange for the utility of u-turn. Ddance has good coverage with lorb but is obviously weaker to priority than dnite.
: UR - C
Same problem as defensive rotom which is a time limit on switch-ins but with far better physical bulk and with the utility of spin, spikes, t spikes, volt switch, immunity to powder moves if you want, and the hilarity of boom.
: UR - C
So close but so far from being a significant threat in BDSP. Phenomenal special attacking stat and surprising coverage. Can keep itself alive vs bulkier teams with recover, clean up weakened offensive teams with agility and nasty plot and can 1-shot blissey which is pretty nuts if you ask me. Held back by its speed tier.
: UR - C
Held back by being hard to get in safely but with life orb and water/dark coverage as well as access to priority and destiny bond and an ability that sets it up for free, this mon has the making of somethinggreat mid.
: UR - C
Usefulness basically limited to stall but has a great move pool with access to grass/poison coverage, strength sap, sleep, and a really annoying ability. Tang does it better, but this still does it.
: UR - C
Spinner, knocker, burner, poisoner and freezer (not likely but still ice beam is a good move). Good base speed for defensive utility, threatens switch-ins with status but only if lucky.
: UR - C
Coverage demon, hits legitimately hard on the physical side with rock slide and earthquake providing it all the coverage it needs along with fire blast and blizzard/ice beam to hit physical walls with 4x weaknesses like scizor and gliscor (and skarm which may as well already be 2x weak to special moves). Amazing speed tier but loses to priority and doesn't have the bulk or typing to come in safely without a pivot.
Honorably Mentions:
:
Rain abuser.
:
Rain abuser.
Also:
Leave my boy gatr alone, he's got the coverage to still be good, I swear.
Mostly I'm voting to keep things in their current tier. I'm not gonna bother writing about how I think they're as good as the current VR says they are - reason being it's been said already. I will, however, defend some of my propositions for rises/falls, but most importantly, my proposed unranked mons who should join the ranks of the VR. Also shoutout to igiveuponaname for posting first so I can steal his formatting.
Rises:
: A - A+Sorry but dnite is nuts. If let dd without taking rocks, it will beat everything barring unaware clef with rocks up. Can even choose to lock itself into a not very effective outrage because in many cases its resistances aren't doing much back. In my opinion it's one of the best win cons in the game and the tier has its fair share of good removers.
: A+ - S-Offensive has one switch-in and its name is Blissey. Not even restricted to running recover or rapid spin of defensive/utility sets. Defensive is debatably the best removal in the game right now and still offers super effective coverage or forces progress with burns. Personally I think offensive is better but is of course hard to get in but this tier has no shortage of pivots and doubles worth making.
: B - B+Ok hear me out. Versatility. "What? on Mismagius? Who the frick is Mismagius?"
Scarf is good, specs is unexplored but probably good, sub is good, plot is good, bulky cm (I know, I know) is surprisingly decent. Access to pain split gives it value on turns it's checked by a switch-in, destiny bond can force a trade with a mon that might feel a little too good staying in on it, and it's the only viable spin blocker.
: B- - BFully set up critdra is the single most terrifying sweeper in the game, "oh but it needs to click 2 setup moves to get there not just 1," yea but it scares out popular meta mons and can afford to setup again in front of others with it's great typing and all around decent stats. Not to mention will kill your entire team if you happen to have a poor rain matchup (which I admit isn't that high of a bar).
: B- - BBeloved ttar may have fallen in popularity, but has a versatility that shouldn't be underestimated. Whether it's an insane stat spread with coverage moves and rocks, ddance to break, or the surprise factor of choiced, Ttar might not be amazing but it's better than I think people give it credit for and I believe it deserves, albeit only barely, a slightly higher spot on the vr.
: B+ - A-Incredible speed tier and base stats, coverage for ground types and is threatening to virtually every mon currently ranked higher than it. Calm mind with shuca put in a lot of work for me in recent tournaments, even 1v1ing chain chomp.
: C - B-Purely because I think rain as a team structure is somewhat of a "B-" kind of team. Even outside of being a rain dance bot, volbeat offers pretty decent utility with prankster t wave, encore, roost and uturn.
: C - B-Bulky demon. While set up is severely limited by lack of access to stored power, can still be a decent win con with surprising speed and coverage for something this bulky. Also offers great utility on TR if you were to be so bold as to use TR.
: C - B-Don't sleep on dragon dance + taunt. If it wasn't weak to rocks I'd comfortably put it in B. Is really only hard stopped by washtom and tang. Is also flexible in its choice of ability with intimidate allowing it to set up easier and moxie allowing it to break or sweep easier.
Drops:
: A - A-Fast and has utility but is at its strongest as a lead versus other hyper offense leads to taunt faster and despite decent attacking stats and coverage suffers from how squishy it is and often, its predictability.
: A - A-Sorry Alley Cat. Pressure stall is so rarely a win con and is more annoying than it is good. Still, you could pick worse bulky set up mons and benefits from one of the better mono typings in the game.
: A - A-Is it me or has gliscor turned into more of a do-nothing mon? Definitely benefits from access to knock which is relatively rare in this tier, hazards/removal and a speed tier that lets it creep some stuff but while sacrificing bulk and has a typing that makes it vulnerable in this meta and a movepool that can just freeze momentum.
: A- - B+Very heavily prediction reliant, can be really hard to bring in safely, and not the best speed tier for an offensive mon.
: A+ - AI'm kinda iffy on this one but I think it leans more A than A+. Washtom has been king in this tier at points and offers good utility at the same time as being either offensive or defensive. That being said, it doesn't have the best survivability, which is really my biggest issue with it. It may scare stuff out the first couple times it switches in but loses its ability to do so quicker than most defensive utility. Still good, I just think it's not on the same level as those currently in A+ and above.
: B - B-I used to really like this thing but I don't think it fits into this meta as well as it used to. Practically forced to run adamant much to its detriment, not the easiest to get in and is fairly prediction reliant. Morbs fat and stall but is basically just a sack versus offense.
: B - COh my god this mon sucks. Often I find that annoying mons are annoying because they're good. This is not one of those mons. I honestly can't think of a single thing it does well, and for that reason I'm voting it be dropped hard.
: B - B-Kind of a do-nothing mon to be honest. If you want a worse Blissey with a chance to burn, be my guest though.
: B- - CVery prediction reliant, basically forced to run choiced, still has too many switchins, and it's squishy.
: B+ - BMostly exists to trap and weaken scizor for something else on your team that loses hard to it.
: B+ - BI feel like this mon is slowly losing its niche in the meta. Loses to most of the tier, just slowly sometimes.
: S - S-I feel like everything in S can be checked or beaten, but usually narrowly, with versatility to adapt and overcome would-be checks. Those who know me would say I famously think this mon is trash, but even I can admit that it can be one of the scariest mons to face. That being said, emphasis on the "can be," because everything else in S IS ALWAYS terrifying to face. Losing to lati is understandable, but might just be a builder issue.
: S - S-Similar reasoning to lati. Also, loses to like every other priority user in the game. Certainly an amazing mon but I think easier to check than other S tiers.
New Additions:
: UR - CI never thought much of this thing but Igiveup proved it can be good on stall and won a lot using it so hey, C, hell yea chicken man.
: UR - B-Curse is phenomenal and did a lot for me in tournaments in 2023. Can remove abilities and sleep through being attacked, this guy's great. At worst, he's spreading para and being annoying. IDK what else to say, I just love this guy and have seen it just win on preview.
: UR - COffensive is pretty cheeks but is the best perish trapper in BDSP. Hard wins vs. stall, might struggle a bit more vs. more offensive teams and volt turn but freeze dry and perish trap often, at worst, trade which is something.
: UR - CSometimes, it just puts in that work, you know? Choiced has good coverage at the cost of weaker stats than some other dragons in the tier in exchange for the utility of u-turn. Ddance has good coverage with lorb but is obviously weaker to priority than dnite.
: UR - CSame problem as defensive rotom which is a time limit on switch-ins but with far better physical bulk and with the utility of spin, spikes, t spikes, volt switch, immunity to powder moves if you want, and the hilarity of boom.
: UR - CSo close but so far from being a significant threat in BDSP. Phenomenal special attacking stat and surprising coverage. Can keep itself alive vs bulkier teams with recover, clean up weakened offensive teams with agility and nasty plot and can 1-shot blissey which is pretty nuts if you ask me. Held back by its speed tier.
: UR - CHeld back by being hard to get in safely but with life orb and water/dark coverage as well as access to priority and destiny bond and an ability that sets it up for free, this mon has the making of something
: UR - CUsefulness basically limited to stall but has a great move pool with access to grass/poison coverage, strength sap, sleep, and a really annoying ability. Tang does it better, but this still does it.
: UR - CSpinner, knocker, burner, poisoner and freezer (not likely but still ice beam is a good move). Good base speed for defensive utility, threatens switch-ins with status but only if lucky.
: UR - CCoverage demon, hits legitimately hard on the physical side with rock slide and earthquake providing it all the coverage it needs along with fire blast and blizzard/ice beam to hit physical walls with 4x weaknesses like scizor and gliscor (and skarm which may as well already be 2x weak to special moves). Amazing speed tier but loses to priority and doesn't have the bulk or typing to come in safely without a pivot.
Honorably Mentions:
:Rain abuser.
:Rain abuser.
Also:
Leave my boy gatr alone, he's got the coverage to still be good, I swear.
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Part 2 is up!
Seeing blissey, tangrowth, skarm so high makes me think you running stall lol. Only need quagsire.
Unban Gengar imo, having only mismagius as spinblocker AND Starmie as only viable spinner is way too reestrictive. People on switch using Gengar sashed, subs, scarf, specs, and it aint game breaking.
Unban Gengar imo, having only mismagius as spinblocker AND Starmie as only viable spinner is way too reestrictive. People on switch using Gengar sashed, subs, scarf, specs, and it aint game breaking.
Just to make sure we’re on the same page. We’re talking about the mon that has a 130 SpA, a 110 Speed Tier, and a viable set that prevents Blissey from actually being a reliable check to it?
Mismagius isn’t even terrible in this meta. Sure, not the best mon, but it’s filled in its niche on HO and Status spam teams quite well. Well enough to become a nuisance.
Gengar is a completely different beast, there is a reason why it was banned before Draco Meteor Simulator.
Hazard removal is also ass, why negate one of like three half decent removers?
It makes sense to think Gengar should be allowed since its not a mon that used to be banned. But in the time Gengar was a very restricting mon as ghost literally only has one answer and it was Blissey. Gengar forced it to run shadow ball which was suboptimal. And we saw thing like Gastrodon to tank On gengar hoping it doesnt have Energy Ball. Gengar having Focus blast negated Ttar as an answer. NP and specs sets just break through everything. Being faster and stronger than Mismagius.
On the removal issue, Gengar is in fact a worse spinblocker than Mismagius for Starmie. Its frailer and drops to Hydro/Psychic while also getting outspeed and suffering from Scald from defensive sets. Which do outspeed as well.
Stall is a thing yeah but its hard to pilot in this tier. Even fatter teams tends to get more in the balance spectrum than fully stall, with breakers like Crawdaunt, Infernape, Weavile, Starmie. And with how exploitable Clef is by Heatran/Rose and Quag by the common grass types like Tang, Rose and Celebi. Makes it tough too for the unawares. Spikes are very dominant now but that helps against Stall more than favors it imo.
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Hello everyone! It came out at last, our updated VR for 2024 is finally here. It took longer because on our will to have a broader opinion of the VR. Thank you to igiveuponaname AstilCodex Boopi_Bappi for sharing their thoughts on the OU metagame. For those who didn't have the time to answer, I still want to thank you for your time.
Anyway, here are the deeds.
Rises:
Magnezone (from B+ to A-)
Milotic (from B to A-)
Gyarados (from C to B-)
Snorlax (from UR to C)
Drops:
Latias (from S to A+)
Infernape (from A+ to A)
Rotom-Wash (from A+ to A)
Azumarill (from A to A-)
Celebi (from A to A-)
Mew (from A to A-)
Azelf (from A- to B+)
Breloom (from A- to B+)
Mamoswine (from A- to B+)
Skarmory (from A- to B+)
Slowbro (from B+ to B)
Staraptor (from B+ to B)
Jirachi (from B to B-)
Shaymin (from B- to C)
Anyway, here are the deeds.
Rises:
Magnezone (from B+ to A-) Milotic (from B to A-) Gyarados (from C to B-) Snorlax (from UR to C)Drops:
Latias (from S to A+) Infernape (from A+ to A) Rotom-Wash (from A+ to A) Azumarill (from A to A-) Celebi (from A to A-) Mew (from A to A-) Azelf (from A- to B+) Breloom (from A- to B+) Mamoswine (from A- to B+) Skarmory (from A- to B+) Slowbro (from B+ to B) Staraptor (from B+ to B) Jirachi (from B to B-) Shaymin (from B- to C)
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