Battle Tree Discussion and Records

I lost a streak at nearly one hundred fifty, but know I could get past two hundred with this team. I'm not losing because the team is flawed, I'm losing because I'm making stupid mistakes, but I'm learning from them. I don't feel like I'm struggling much with this team, so I don't think I need advice, but who knows? Maybe someone will think of something I haven't. (Like better EVs) I'm not posting for the leader board yet. I'm posting because I figured that some people would like to see what I've been up to. (I'm looking at you Smuckem. :D)

This team works in the same way all of my others do, by nuking everything with moves so powerful that resisting the moves is required to have a chance at survival. Unlike my other teams, this one uses Trick Room. I knew Mega Charizard Y and Scarf Typhlosion were just a little to weak to work in Doubles, and Discharge Spam didn't work that well, but there was one thing left to try. Sun. Again. By Adding Trick Room to Sun, I could use Torkoal and Mega Camerupt which would be enough extra power to succeed where my Triples Team would fail and give me Gen 3 Nostalgia. (Still annoyed about the removal of Triples...) Oranguru could also be used not just to set up Trick Room, but act as duplicate of its team mate with Instruct. It looked promising, but I still needed a fourth Pokemon. Exploud was in the Field Egg Group and I only had 0 Speed IV Pokemon in that Egg Group so I decided to try it. It want as badly as you'd expect, but not because of Boomburst KOing my own team or being fast for a Trick Room Pokemon. Exploud didn't work because the team fell apart if I couldn't get Trick Room up. After that I breed a Pangoro for it's low speed, niche in Parting Shot, and being in the Human Like Egg Group so I could breed a Hariyama with it. (I never tried the Pangoro.) Hariyama's Fake Out let Oranguru survive long enough for Trick Room every time and Flame Orb Guts Close Combat, like everything else on this team, is stupid when it hits twice. Now that I have my team, I just need to name it. After calculating the Spam Power, how this?

oranguru.gif
hariyama.gif
torkoal.gif
camerupt-mega.gif

PRIMAL GROUDON TRICK ROOM ERUPTION SPAM!​


Yes, really.

Shall we begin?


oranguru.gif

Oranguru @ Lum Berry
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 204 HP / 236 Def / 68 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Instruct
- Psychic
- Protect
- Trick Room

EVs Shamelessly stolen from kneeshoeshoe's team on Page 87. It's an interesting team, so you should check it out.
This thing can not be OHKOed. Well, he can, but that's not much of an exaggeration. I'd post the small list of things that can OHKO this beast, but I'd rather not steal that from kneeshoeshoe's post too, but if you don't want to check it out, trust me. It's a small list. As I said earlier, this team falls apart without Trick Room, so I needed something that always sets up Trick Room. Inner Focus to prevent Flinch and a Lum Berry preventing Paralysis, Sleep, and Confusion lets Oranguru use Trick Room every time. Aggron and Thundurus can use Taunt on Oranguru, but Hariyama can use Fake Out on them. After Trick Room is used, I need four KOs in four turns. Oranguru's Attack Stats are pathetic for that, but he doesn't use his own stats when "attacking." When I said Instruct lets Oranguru act like a duplicate of its team mate, I meant it. Making a Pokemon attack a second time makes Oranguru unreplaceable. It's annoying when the team mate gets KOed between its move and Oranguru's because it pretty much wastes Oranguru's move, but even with that down side, Instruct is still way better than Helping Hand could ever be. I heard that Oranguru is arguably the best Trick Room setter there is, and after trying it, I agree.

Side Note: I usually don't like pure support Pokemon because even though I know they're helping a ton with moves like Helping Hand, there's not much of a visual way to tell how much they help and they deal disappointing damage with their attacks, so it doesn't feel like they don't do much. Oranguru is the complete opposite. (Unless he has to use Psychic on something other than Toxicroak.)
hariyama.gif

Tubby (Hariyama) @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Brave Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
IVs: 0 Spe
- Close Combat
- Facade
- Knock Off
- Fake Out
You'd expect a team built around Groudon to lead with Groudon, but nope, Hariyama is needed as the second lead. Using Fake Out on the most threatening Pokemon will guarantee that Trick Room goes off. If there is no threat, you can use Fake Out to break Focus Sashes and Sturdy that the opponent might have. Turn Two, Hariyama gets burned and is ready to watch the world burn. Close Combat is a nuke that also lowers his defenses, which sounds like a down side, but if Hariyama goes down, that means I get to sent in Groudon. Because of that, I don't know if lowered defenses are a downside or not. That said, Hariyama can sweep teams, and often does despite the Primal Groudon Eruption Spam plan when he hits twice per turn. Facade is Power 140 compared to Close Combat's 180 with Stab and about as effective as the coverage for Fighting Resists would be, (Ice Punch being 150 against Birds and Knock Off being 195 + 130 averaging 162.5 over two hits against Psychic Types) so there's no reason not to use it. If you think that Ice Punch may be better, it's annoying using a Power 75 Move with Instruct after scoring a KO. It might be better if you're not using Instruct, but with Instruct, Facade is just better. The Fighting/Normal coverage is walled by Ghosts, which makes them annoying, but Knock Off hits them hard. Unfortunately, it's still a 2HKO on bulky Ghosts, but it's better than nothing.

Note to self about using Hariyama: Sturdy and Thunder Wave do not make a Pokemon the better target for Fake Out and Ghost does not mean kill on sight. Consider what's a bigger threat to the rest of the team instead of just what's a bigger threat to Hariyama.
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"Groudon" (Torkoal) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Drought
Quiet Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
- Eruption
- Heat Wave
- Solar Beam
- Protect
About the team name, wouldn't it be funny if you could smuggle Primal Groudon into the Battle Tree and spam Eruption with it? Well, Torkoal has -20 in both Defenses and -30 HP compared to Primal Groudon and he lacks the Ground Typing, but according to my calculations Choice Specs Torkoal has the same amount of power! A stupid amount of power that 2HKOs even resists like Salamence! Eruption is a Nuke, Survivors are classified as a Critically Endangered Species, and I am the leading cause of Global Warming. HAHAHAHA! Err, sorry about that. I tend to get drunk on power when I use Primal Groudon in the Battle Tree. Anyway, nothing can go wrong with Choice Locked Eruption! But seriously, I'm happy with Eruption's Power until Torkoal goes from 177 HP to 100 (About Power 85) and the boost from the far less inane Flame Plate to the Choice Specs does help score KOs against some otherwise threatening Pokemon like Mega Salamence and Primarina. Heat Wave is for when Torkoal is switching back in after switching out or when Trick Room is going to run out or is already down. Switching is rare, so it's almost always the latter. Solar Beam is worth it when it's at least four times more effective than Eruption and KOing the target is more important than using Eruption. It's rarely used, especially because Instruct doesn't work on it, but a still nice to have. Protect is leftover from when I was using a Flame Plate and even back then, it wasn't used. I need to replace Protect with Earth Power to hit Flash Fire Pokemon, but I'm pretty unmotivated to breed another Torkoal just for a move I'll probably only use once if ever.
I will admit that the choice of Choice Specs over a Flame Plate is purely a "Drunk on Power" choice and is likely to screw me over, but I honestly feel like the extra power can help a little bit and I'd rather have more fun with extra power even if it's more likely to make me lose.
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Also "Groudon" (Camerupt) @ Red Orb (Cameruptite)
Ability: Magma Armor --> Sheer Force
Quiet Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
IVs: 0 Spe
- Eruption
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
- Solar Beam
When the Sun is out, Mega Camerupt is like ANOTHER PRIMAL GROUDON, but with an accurate typing instead of accurate defenses. On this team Mega Camerupt works both as a Backup Torkoal or Oranguru because his Eruption is as powerful as Choice Specs Torkoal's Eruption and Heat Wave, thanks to Sheer Force, only downgrades to a Flame Plate Torkoal's Eruption. If you asking if I should have a variety of attack types to spam instead of just fire, then I'd like to two things. First, what part of "Primal Groudon Eruption Spam" do you not understand? Second, What's "Variety?" Earth Power is a Secondary Stab that happens to takes out Flash Fire Pokemon and Solar Beam, again, is for Pokemon hit way harder by it that have to die.

Magma Armor is the Pre-Mega Evolution Ability because even though Sun also prevents Freezing, it seems like the least useless ability. That said, it's still only slightly less useless than Anger Point. Solid Rock is probably more useful because it can do something if Camerupt somehow takes an Earthquake before Mega Evolution, but it's still pretty close in "Usefulness."

Team Weaknesses

- Turn Six
That's when Trick Room runs out. If the battle isn't pretty much over at this point, it's going to start to hurt. The good news is that Torkoal can deal a surprisingly high amount of damage with a Power 10 Eruption. (By that I mean around 25 Damage. You're screwed if that's your last stand.)

- Trick Room
Everyone hates facing Trick Room, even Trick Room. I lost my second run with a surprisingly low 82 Wins because the opponent lead with Slowbro and Slowking. I had no idea what to do because they both could have used Trick Room. I used Fake Out on Slowbro and Trick Room. Slowbro Mega Evolved and Flinched while Slowking also used Trick Room, which canceled mine out. I hoped they'd use Trick Room again, but instead, I got slaughtered. On the bright side, on the third run I faced the same lead and got revenge.

- Rain
Raise your hand if you didn't see this coming. I rarely switch out Pokemon, but when I do, I'm panicking for a very good reason. Torkoal, Retreat! Must get Drought again! (Camerupt does not like what usually happens next... Sorry Camerupt...)

- Sandstorm and Hail
Hahaha. No. Not enough of a debuff from Sun for me to care. Besides, Sandstorm Trainers are easily dealt with by Hariyama and Rock Types have low enough Special Defense that Eruption Spam still scores easy KOs.

- Hax on Hariyama
Battle 29, Run 3 The opponent lead with Confuse Ray Minior and Tyranitar. Hariyama hit itself in confusion so many turns in a row and Trick Room ran out before I KOed anything. I came close to rage quitting, but I won. Paralysis, Sleep, and Freezing can happen on Turn One because Hariyama isn't burned until after the first turn. Flinching is pretty rare.

- Hax on Torkoal or Camerupt
If that happens, it's probably because Trick Room isn't up. If it happens while Trick Room is up, then I don't know what happened.

- Special Tanks
Do they even do anything back if they live?

- Flash Fire
I'm not sure if I should cross that out or not because even though I do worry about Pokemon with Flash Fire, and for a very good reason, Camerupt OHKOs them all with Earth Power. Also, every Pokemon with Flash Fire has at least one other Ability so they feel even less threatening because there's a chance that I can take them out with Eruption.

- The Person Using the Team (Pressing the wrong button / Stupid Mistakes)
Sadly, that's not a joke. Using Fake Out on the Pokemon that was threatening to a previous team instead of the one that could KO Oranguru cost me the first run and I almost lost the third run because I saw that all pokemon were full health and thought that was because the battle just started. (I had KOed the first two Pokemon on the same turn, something IRL got my attention, then I used Trick Room and Fake Out a second time in one battle. That was a close battle...) Stupid Moves are one of the the biggest threat because I don't think ever... Why am I even confessing this? I should end this post before I confess something worse like that I sucked my thumb until I was fourteen... wait...
You should check my signature to find out what the N in CTNC stands for. (Spoiler: It stands for Noob.)


Math about how stupidly Powerful Eruption Spam is

Don't worry, it's just multiplication, and it explains why I call this team "Primal Groudon Eruption Spam"
When calculating how powerful a Pokemon is, I multiply the Attack Stat it's using, the Power of the Move being spammed, the Item and Ability boosts if any, and the Weather or Terrain that's buffing it. I call the result Spam Power, or SP for short. For example, Mega Camerupt has 216 Special Attack, Torkoal has a Special Attack of 150, and they both use the Power 150 Eruption which leads to this.


Quiet Mega Camerupt Eruption SP - 216 * 150 * 1.5 = 48600
Quiet Specs Torkoal Eruption SP - 150 * 150 * 1.5 * 1.5 = 50625

I didn't know I could hit 50000! To give you an idea of how insane that is, let's compare that to my leads for the Brute Force Triples team that got me over 700 wins.


Timid Solar Power Life Orb Heliolisk SP = 177 * 90 * 1.3 * 1.5 = 31063
Modest Mega Charizard Y Heat Wave SP = 232 * 95 * 1.5 = 33060
Modest Scarf Typhlosion Eruption SP = 177 * 150 *1.5 = 39825

Torkoal's power is like if you gave Choice Specs to Mega Zard Y! Even the heaviest hitter deals about 4/5 as much as Torkoal! Now because I've been calling this Primal Groudon Eruption Spam, why don't we calculate Primal Groudon Eruption SP?


Modest Primal Groudon Eruption SP = 222 * 150 * 1.5 = 49950

As you can see, that's just 675 lower than Torkoal's SP, or in other words, the equivalent of 3 points of Special Attack which is an undetectable difference. I wasn't joking when I said this team is Primal Groudon Eruption Spam. If any team gives me the right to go mad with power, it's this one.

The way I view things, I've done the equivalent of not only smuggling The King of Ubers into The Battle Tree, but also breaking the Species Clause with it to make The Ultimate Spam Team. Some people go with well built teams with synergy, but me, Groudon. Just Groudon. I hope you enjoyed reading this as much as I liked writing it because that was my main reason for writing this.
 
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I have to give big credit to CTNC for making a weather/TR combination work.

Gives me hope to manage to make the TRain combination work. I'm also glad to see that I'm not the only one who finds "double status" leads threatening for TR setters.

As for Rain... I remind running some calc for Hariyama, and noticing that I couldn't find a single occurrence of Facade being useful, and Hariyama does learn Sunny Day. Just a thought.
 
turskain said:
That's 5 moves, what does it actually have?
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I don't know how I missed that. Hidden Power is the move that isn't used.

Worldie said:
I have to give big credit to CTNC for making a weather/TR combination work.

Gives me hope to manage to make the TRain combination work. I'm also glad to see that I'm not the only one who finds "double status" leads threatening for TR setters.

As for Rain... I remind running some calc for Hariyama, and noticing that I couldn't find a single occurrence of Facade being useful, and Hariyama does learn Sunny Day. Just a thought.
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Thanks. :)

It's weird that you couldn't find any good calcs for Facade, because it's extremely useful. Maybe that's because it doesn't OHKO anything threatening to the team or we're not looking at it the same way. Gaining OHKOs even on nonthreatening Pokemon is still really good when you have four turns to fight. There's a lot of frail Psychic, Fairy, and Flying Pokemon that are OHKOed by Facade, like Mega Alakazam, Sylveon, and Tornadus and Fake Out can help gain some more KOs. Because of Ornaguru, I'm also fine with 2HKOs, and everything that resists Fighting is 2HKOed. Even if Hariyama only gets one Facade on something before getting KOed, Eruption is a guarantee KO afterward.
 
i'd think the main difference is that I was actually running Heavy Slam on the 4th move slot, which overally as well picks up deletions on most fairies and fliers, so Facade didn't look particularly interesting
 
Reporting a streak of 106 battles in Super Singles. Learned a lot from this first run with a hyper-offensive mixture of Porygon-Z and Kartana/Salamence-Mega.

Derived this team from my previous Kartana/Salamence-M/Ash-Greninja team.

I tried: Scarf Tapu Lele, Waterium Z Tapu Fini, Chandelure, Greninja (Protean), Celesteela, Aegislash, Gliscor, Tapu Bulu, Tapu Koko, and Mimikyu before settling on PGon-Z. I think this team has potential, but the synergy is minimal and depends on overpowering the opponent.

Porygon-Z @ Normalium Z
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Shadow Ball
- Conversion

Kartana @ Focus Sash
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
IVs: 31.31.31.x.31.31 (Hyper Trained)
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Smart Strike
- Sacred Sword
- Night Slash

Salamence-M @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate -> Aerilate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
IVs: 31.31.31.x.31.31
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Dragon Dance

Losing Battle Video (107) proves that Thundurus4 (Electrium Z Discharge and Focus Blast) is a hard check to this team: WD7G-WWWW-WWW8-7YU8

Some other battle videos demonstrating normal play:

Battle 90 with Plumeria: D2FG-WWWW-WWW8-7YUL

Battle 96: D68W-WWWW-WWW8-7YV4

Battle 100 with Colress: NOT ABLE TO UPLOAD?
Vs. Electrode4, Alolan Muk, and Porygon2. Relatively uneventful.

I could use some help improving this team, but I'm not exactly sure how. Z-Thundurus just checks it so hard, and I have to depend on one Focus Blast missing for PGon-Z or Kartana to take it out. Salamence can take one hit only, yet still gets OHKO'd by Electrium Z Discharge, probably. I can also run Swords Dance on Kartana in lieu of Night Slash, which is almost never used when I have Shadow Ball on PGon-Z. I have to mention that I had no tricks going into this team; just played normally and avoided stupid mistakes.
 
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CTNC said:
hariyama.gif

Tubby (Hariyama) @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Brave Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
IVs: 0 Spe
- Close Combat
- Facade
- Knock Off
- Fake Out
You'd expect a team built around Groudon to lead with Groudon, but nope, Hariyama is needed as the second lead. Using Fake Out on the most threatening Pokemon will guarantee that Trick Room goes off. If there is no threat, you can use Fake Out to break Focus Sashes and Sturdy that the opponent might have. Turn Two, Hariyama gets burned and is ready to watch the world burn. Close Combat is a nuke that also lowers his defenses, which sounds like a down side, but if Hariyama goes down, that means I get to sent in Groudon. Because of that, I don't know if lowered defenses are a downside or not. That said, Hariyama can sweep teams, and often does despite the Primal Groudon Eruption Spam plan when he hits twice per turn. Facade is Power 140 compared to Close Combat's 180 with Stab and about as effective as the coverage for Fighting Resists would be, (Ice Punch being 150 against Birds and Knock Off being 195 + 130 averaging 162.5 over two hits against Psychic Types) so there's no reason not to use it. If you think that Ice Punch may be better, it's annoying using a Power 75 Move with Instruct after scoring a KO. It might be better if you're not using Instruct, but with Instruct, Facade is just better. The Fighting/Normal coverage is walled by Ghosts, which makes them annoying, but Knock Off hits them hard. Unfortunately, it's still a 2HKO on bulky Ghosts, but it's better than nothing.
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Mildly surprised you gravitated toward Facade and not Heavy Slam which, for a situational move, is generally a lot more useful. Facade will not OHKO Togekiss after Guts while HS will (and generally is very bad for fairies in general aside from Mawile.) When leading with Hariyama you may or may not find yourself attacking through both the Guts boost and an Intimidate, and while the frail fairies can then survive the Facade, they're still in OHKO range of HS. Otherwise I liked using HS on particular rocks and ice types when CC was unnecessary for the kill, particularly if there remained to be enemies to be seen, because it might have painted him as less of a target when not sitting on multiple debuffs. There remains some fighting resists like Bugs, but I haven't found myself missing something stronger for them (but then perhaps neither have you.) Tornadus for example is easily 2HKOd by G-Knock Off, even the Z-Crystal variant.

Worldie said:
I have to give big credit to CTNCGives me hope to manage to make the TRain combination work. I'm also glad to see that I'm not the only one who finds "double status" leads threatening for TR setters.
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Speaking of status I found myself both amused and bewildered/outraged that I can't reach my original milestone (280) to save my life with an objectively better team, or even 200 with the original team sans Mawile... and yet I had a pathetically easy coast to 50 using a frigging Shiinotic lead no less.

It is as dangerous as you surmised earlier, and while I was (previously) having a lot of problems with enemy TR teams for a multitude of reasons, Shiinotic has made them relatively a cakewalk largely because of Spore. That wouldn't sound surprising in itself, but I was finding the move drastically more useful against those teams than anywhere else.

Strength Sap is also a really good move and served as the basis for most of Shiinotic's attempts to actually kill things during other battles. It's got "some" bulk, enough to easily survive STABless SE hits and can barely hang onto some much stronger ones like Magnezone's Flash Cannon. Weakness Policy was an effective hold item for it for largely the same reasons it worked for my lead Palossand run. Most reasonably strong physically oriented pokes heal it from low doubles to full off the first use, and if attacking won't accomplish much it's made a handy gimp for Oranguru to switch into a replacement. There were enough grass/fairy weak encounters that it was able to net enough KOs to not be deadweight. It didn't faint often without my intentionally sacking it. The experience was positive enough that I quickly decided to try Iron Ball Tapu Bulu next for much greater firepower, but will undoubtedly quickly miss Spore and Strength Sap.

tl;dr shiinotic surprised me by not being a worthless pos as a lead no less. also tree is way too heavily luck driven because shiinotic was not a worthless pos as a lead no less
 
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ReptoAbysmal said:
Mildly surprised you gravitated toward Facade and not Heavy Slam which, for a situational move, is generally a lot more useful. Facade will not OHKO Togekiss after Guts while HS will (and generally is very bad for fairies in general aside from Mawile.) When leading with Hariyama you may or may not find yourself attacking through both the Guts boost and an Intimidate, and while the frail fairies can then survive the Facade, they're still in OHKO range of HS. Otherwise I liked using HS on particular rocks and ice types when CC was unnecessary for the kill, particularly if there remained to be enemies to be seen, because it might have painted him as less of a target when not sitting on multiple debuffs. There remains some fighting resists like Bugs, but I haven't found myself missing something stronger for them (but then perhaps neither have you.) Tornadus for example is easily 2HKOd by G-Knock Off, even the Z-Crystal variant.
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Honestly, I didn't realize that Hariyama gets that move until Woldie said that he was using it for his. I barley get any OHKOs with Facade and it deals more than enough damage for an easy 2HKO on pretty much everything, but I'm pretty worried about the variable power and that Water Types resist it... I don't think I'll try it. Edit: I really don't like the idea of giving up Facade because it means that if the first hit is a KO then the second might be weak, but that's kind of a stupid thought when I don't OHKO that much. I'll try Heavy Slam.

Also, after losing at battle fifty-something, I'm trying switching Torkoal's item from Choice Specs to a Flame Plate. That loss happening so early sobered me up being drunk on power.


ReEdit: I tested Heavy Slam and it didn't feel that good for my team. It's better against Fairies than Facade, but makes it so Hariyama can't do much against Pokemon that resist Fighting and ether resist Steel or are heavy enough to be close enough to a resist like Gyrados, Salamence, and Mega Charizard Y. If I switch Knock Off to an Elemental Punch, that means Alolan Marowak and ether Latios and Latias or Slowbro and Jellicent, depending on if I go with Thunder or Ice, become a problem. I could use Heavy Slam over Knock Off, but you'd be surprised how many Ghosts are heavy or resist Steel and I'm not sold on Heavy Slam anyway. It seems like choosing Hariyama's Move Set is like choosing your weakness and the combo of Facade and Knock Off means less problems with weaknesses at the cost of less power against them.

ReEdit Again: First Battle after getting rid of Heavy Slam, my opponent had a Carbink. It made me lose.
 
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I'm not a fan overally of using Choice items for doubles on a poke that is in the backline. It's far too simple to risk being locked into a worthless move after killing 1 poke, expecially vs mixed trainers. For a lead it's okay as you can easily sacrifice it or swap it out, but once you are left on 2 pokes and locked on a bad or even worse detrimental move.... disaster happens.
 
CTNC said:
Honestly, I didn't realize that Hariyama gets that move until Woldie said that he was using it for his. I barley get any OHKOs with Facade and it deals more than enough damage for an easy 2HKO on pretty much everything, but I'm pretty worried about the variable power and that Water Types resist it... I don't think I'll try it.

Also, after losing at battle fifty-something, I'm trying switching Torkoal's item from Choice Specs to a Flame Plate. That loss happening so early sobered me up being drunk on power.
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lol the whole point of Heavy Slam is not to have a basic strong move like Facade; it's simply coverage. There's something to be said for having the insurance. The variable power is exactly why it's valuable against the fairies, because it easily reaches max power against them. Being resisted by water types is pretty irrelevant; you use to remove particular pokes that can presumably end Hariyama's run so prematurely that it can't get a 2x CC the next turn or something. You would probably say "well using an Instructed Facade accomplishes the same purpose like I've been doing" but you also restrict your options in doing so; Oranguru can't spend its turn doing something more useful, be it landing a psychic, protecting itself if need be, switching to get some additional damage output, etc.

Second, during various lead combinations of enemy TR teams, it is *much* more useful to open with Gutsless Heavy Slam and ensure a KO with Oranguru's Psychic than it is to use Fake Out or get TR up right away. Aromatisse/Shiinotic 3 & 4 create enough problems that they are best dealt with ASAP. Facade will not accomplish squat in these situations.

All right, that's the last I'm going to speak on the subject :P
 
Just got my last Battle Tree Stamp by beating Singles! Red used Lapras-3, Snorlax-3 and Blastoise-4 (side note: no Mega Blastoise in the Battle Tree?), though as I forgot to save the record there's no video.
Team is a hybrid of two others already on the board - I'll post it if it gets high enough...
 
I know this is nothing compared to some streaks, but I finally managed to take time and beat the Battle Tree Super Doubles to get the stamp. The team was the basic Aron/Dusclops/Mega Kanga/Conkeldurr I used to reach 50 wins in Y, OR and AS. I'm now looking for a good team to do singles, and, mostly, for a good team to do Multi, since I don't know if there's a way to manipulate the partner AI.
 
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You can't realistically manipulate the partner AI.
There's some things you can do to *encourage* it, for example setting a favorable weather will make it usually prefer the weathered move, or having a levitater/flyer will often trigger the AI to spam earthquake, but that's about it.
 
At the end, we finally did it. Flower team An innovative and more flowery version of Trick Room made it to 90. (Still ongoing, will report whenever it drops)

Firstly, I'm sorry Scrafty. I have failed you.
This comp was originally meant to feature Scrafty as Fake Out support. In fact, it originally flat out had 3 intimidaters in the comp. After a few times hitting 70+ and inevitably dropping, adjustments had to be made.
Unfortunately, Scrafty's damage output on his own was not enough to be sided with Aromatisse. They would more often than not fail to get KOs even turn 2 or 3, resulting in TR/Terrain turns to go wasted. The fact that Scrafty istadies to Fairies also was a big issue for an already moderate damage lead.
In the end, I decided to bench Scrafty (might attempt him again in future, or just go with Incineroar once its HA is released).

Unfortunately, Fake Out options that are also functional in Trick Room are quite limited. Scrafty, Hariyama, Incineroar, (Mega)Sableye, MegaKangaskhan to some extent, and that's really about it. Not running Fake out lead just has the high risk of double status or double finches or flat out have the setter deleted turn 1, which is potentially an autoloss.

As people know by now, pink is my colour, and I was adamant in using Aromatisse, thus I decided to side it with a big fatter version of itself (Hariyama).

Besides, here are the QR and the specifics of the comp:
https://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/rentalteam/BT-401E-9102
(yes, I'm lacking several PP ups, I'm that lazy)


aromatisse.gif

Basically Worldie (Aromatisse) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Aroma Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: <5 Atk / 0 Spe
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- Misty Terrain
- Trick Room

EVs provided by JustinTR . This spread allows Aromatisse to not get 1hkod by any non crit outside of a couple supereffective Z moves or mega-powered stabs.
The moveset has been alternating a little until finalizing into this.
Originally running Leftovers, swapped to Lum Berry because it just completely negates turn 1 RNG. Having Lum Berry means I can happily facetank a status or random freeze, don't need to panic vs Effect Spore + Spore (you two cheeky mushrooms) users, and realistically the only thing that can stop TR from going up turn 1 is a flinch.
Moonblast is the mandatory stab. I pick Moonblast over the spread Dazzling Gleam because Moonblast actually picks up a few 1hkos (Haxorus, Passimian, Mienshao, Machamp on top of my mind) that are relevant which Dazzling Gleam doesn't. Despite no investment, 99 base spatk is still somewhat respectable, and the chance to drop the spatk is actually quite useful, though not necessary, but still useful.
Originally it was the only damage move, then I decided that I did not like Aromatisse to be completely passive vs resists, specifically vs Fire types. I had the option to go between Psychic and Thunderbolt, since i'm running a Lightning Rod user, eventually decided for Psychic, which also has the added perk of allowing to hit poison types supereffectively and often pick up much needed turn 2 KOs after Fake out.

Now, onto the special guest: Misty Terrain. This thing is overpowered for Battle Tree. Aromatisse's low speed means that outside of a handful of Iron Ball users, I will always have the luxury to set it first in a set turn of Trick Room. The amount of AI screws up into Misty Terrain is actually pretty ridicolous. Status immunity blocks *A LOT* of RNG from random Freezes, parahaxes, Toxic stallers (more details on this later) and other stuff, plus nearly all Pokes featuring status generally try to go for it istantly turn 2, resulting in them wasting the turn.
It's also worth mentioning that the AI seembs to have issues noticing that Misty Terrain is in place with Swagger, Flatter and Nuzzle, and a few more moves that have a double effect one of which is not blocked by the terrain. Psych Up users specifically will often let you enjoy a free +2 to delete them the turn after.

hariyama.gif

Fatter Aromatisse (Hariyama) @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 106 Def / 116 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Knock Off
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Heavy Slam

EVs also provided by JustinTR . In fact this poke itself was provided by him. EV spread was taken from a VGC version, and while I don't know the specifics for each number, it works, so why change it?
There's not much to say about Hariyama since the set per se is very standard. Coverage preference goes to Heavy Slam for me because it deletes pretty much every Fairy turn 2 and actually gets a significant amount of 1hkos vs stuff that resists Close Combat, mostly bugs and poison types, and deletes Mega Beedrill as well. It also allows to hit several Ice types supereffectively without needing the stat drop and still achieveing the 1hko or 2hko turn 2.


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Almost Aromatisse (Vileplume) @ Grassium Z
Ability: Effect Spore
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: <5 Atk / 0 Spe
- Energy Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Moonblast
- Protect

Now now, my little flowershroom. Why there's a Vileplume in this comp? Well it was because of Scrafty. I needed something that resists fairies, resist fighting, and isn't weak to ground or rock, to swap in in case of strong coverage that could delete it. Hence, a Poison/Grass type. Unfortunately, the only 2 slow and sufficiently bulky Poison/Grass types are Vileplume and Amoonguss, but Amoonguss is extremely passive, and already having one passive poke was too much. Vileplume surprisingly packs a very respectable 110 spatk with a 75/85/90 bulk, which allow it to tank most non supereffective hits and even several non-stab supereffective ones.
The moveset and item went through a few iterations.
Original version was running Black Sludge, Giga Drain and Grassy terrain. The idea would have been similar to Aromatisse, be able to tank damage while also keep healing up. Reality was, it wouldn't work, compared to 'tisse the bulk and typing do not allow it to realistically set up the terrain or take advantage of Giga Drain.
Decided to swap to a more aggressive setup, Z-grassium, Energy Ball and Aromatheraphy. The idea behind was having the flexibility of using Z-Aromatheraphy to heal back to full if I needed, and have the option to clear up random status on the comp.
Again, proved too slow. Eventually settled with Protect as 4th move, which actually proved very worth it expecially to buy a turn to setup a new Trick Room or terrain.
Decided for Z-Grassium over Z-Poison since there's virtually no immunities to Grass on tree (bar Gogoat, Bouffalant and Goodra), which means i do not risk completely wasting the move if the enemy has steel types or swaps into one. It also has the added benefit of picking 1hkos on a lot of water types, *expecially* Suicune (more on this later).

A note on the Abi: Clorophyl was obviously a no go, as it would have actually made Vileplume have more problems than it already had vs Sunny Day comps (though it still walls/deletes pretty much all of the grass pokemon those comps run). Effect Spore originally looked "meh" due to the fact i'm running Misty Terrain, but the fact that I don't always set it (since the frontline is virtually immune to status at start) + the existence of plenty of fliers and levitaters that are phisical atkers actually got it to work a few times. *something something grin of revenge watching Rhyperior-3 get paralyzed and parahaxed*


marowak-alola.gif

Graveyard Flower? (Marowak-Alola) @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Flare Blitz
- Stomping Tantrum
- Shadow Bone
- Aerial Ace

My last poke choice took a while to solidify. Several were attempted, with mediocre/mixed results. As mentioned, I've made it to 70+ a few times, but always eventually ended up dropping.
I decided for A-Marowak in the end. It's slow. It has the damage without Life Orb recoil or choice item. It's actually decently bulky, resists Steel, Fairy and Poison which are significant issues for my lead thus is often a safe swap, is immune to Explosion which is actually a pretty big deal, and can deal with Ice types.
This guy synergyses so well with literally everything else, as long as I can clear water types.
The moveset choice was specially tailored for this comp.
I don't think I need to explain the 2 stab choices, both 100% accuracy, Flare Blitz hits stupidly hard coming from basically 160 base attack.
I decided to go for Stomping Tantrum as first coverage because it's actually one of the handful Ground type moves that are single targetted with 100% accuracy. It picks up significant 1 or 2hkos on fire types, deletes lots of Poison types, also 1hkos all Heatran formes except the one with ground resist berry, which however does not 1hko Marowak with Earth Power, allowing for a safe 2hko or simply double target before it can act.
Aerial Ace rounds up the coverage, the flying coverage per se is really not necessary, but it's a nevermiss move, and it *did* make a difference dealing with staller sets. More also on this to follow.
Lightning Rod, ultimately, is also a quite cheesy ability. Expecially vs several T-wave spammers, I can safely just swap marowak in turn 2 and proceed to sweep, often not even needing to set terrain.

Overally, Marowak-A has a lot to do with this ongoing streak: it nearly 1v4s SunnyDay trainers. if Sunny Day is up it can pretty much 1hko everything and even 1hko squishyer pokes on resisted hits, basically only fearing M-Charizard X rock slide but does 1hko M-ChariX anyway, it also completely negates a big part of both Rain teams (funny eh, for a fire type), several Rotom formes, makes the match vs Kikujiro (the electric specialist) more or less of a joke.

Here following a few battle videos I recorded on the way.

Q74G-WWWW-WWW8-9XZ6 78 VS Veteran Xenophon
Grass specialist. Marowak.
I had a little misplay on turn 2 where I assumed Knockoff would finish off Rotom, but it was the Z-grassium version so did not get the bonus damage and barely missed the KO. Was also not really expecting the Z-move right away, though I wasnt particularly scared as it could not 1hko Aromatisse.
Then Marowak comes in and well... that was simply *brutal*. Virizion is also completely walled by Marowak, either ways, all of its forms, and so was Breelom.
6MVG-WWWW-WWW8-9XZP 80 VS Guzma
This was actually thougher than it could have been.
I decided to fake out Golisopod as if it did not go for First Impression (which it wouldnt on double resist) or it would get quick claw proc (which it revealed on the knockoff) it would have been stopped on track. Toxapex was more of a issue than it could have been, but after having made sure that there was no Black Sludge (it was Red Card set anyway), I took the risk to Z-move even with the Protect (which also happened) since it would have brought Toxapex in ko range for following turn anyway. Liepard per se was not a big deal, as it could not have been the Red Card set and the Focus Sash one is not scary at all for a 2v1 even with TR expiring. It could have kod Marowak with a crit if it went for it but still would have died turn after to Vileplume.
KN6W-WWWW-WWW8-9XP2 82 VS Worker Omar
I decided to go over this one just to reiterate on my complaints about Explosion pokemon. They just go seppuku anytime they can, for no real reason. Golem was no exception, and I was well aware of this so just hit the Ampharos to get it in KO range (ended up just killing it anyway).
There was also a little misplay there where I assumed knock off would have actually get rid of Weakness Policy before enabling it which it didn't.
LAGG-WWWW-WWW8-9XP6 83 VS Ace Trainer Levi
A demostration of how Marowak basically autowins vs Sun teams. I decided to fake out Exeggutor because I could really not risk having Hariyama go down istantly turn 1 without getting a single hit off, knowing it could easily 1hko Thyplosion turn 2. I swapped Marowak in, just in case Exegutor decided random shenenigans of Sludge Bombing Aromatisse.
It actually took me a bit of math and time to decide if Shadow Bone or Flare blitz into exeggutor, Shadow Bone was like 10% non guaranteed to KO, did not want to take the risk. Besides, Volcarona can't do any damage to Marowak unless it's left to stack +3 and even then still gets 2hkod anyway.
7FEG-WWWW-WWW8-9XPC 90 VS Cynthia
I was kind of scared to see Cynthia as 90th, I was hoping for something simpler, however this was actually way painless than I thought.
Turn 1 was not much to decide: mega lucario can 1hko Aromatisse with a crit which I cannot let happen, as Misty Terrain is essential to deal with Milotic. Even getting a Freeze turn 1 on Hariyama would have probably been fine.
Once misty terrain is up, Rest Milotic is nothing more than a nuisance.
You can also see another show of the actual damage of Aromatisse on weak to stab mons, Garchomp is a guaranteed 2hko in all forms (in fact, one of the pre20 sets is a 1hko).
I was kind of surprised to see Garchomp actually going into Earthquake, actually just gently bringing milotic down to KO range for me and ridding of Hariyama for a free switch and cleanup.
Z move to clean up with style, because yes.

Now onto actual composition analysis.
The backline is bulky enough to take a couple resisted hit or even some weaker unresisted hits on the switch. This means that rather than giving up one of the lead for free turn 3+, there can be the option to swap into one of the many resists to the lead's weaknesses. It also allows to possibly get Hariyama out to reset the defense drops + possibly guarantee another TR setup if sent on the turn before it expires. Not *necessary* but occasionally useful.

Obviously the main idea is Fake Out + TR turn 1, then delete something turn 2. I might or might not set up terrain turn 2. If aromatisse berry is still there, I might just go on damage things, or set terrain against a status spammer then swap Aromatisse into one of the backline to kill things.
Keeping Aromatisse up is generally the main aim but not necessarly it. If i can get the entire lead deleted by turn 3 I might sacrifice Aromatisse to get a 3v2 fight with 2-3 TR turns left, which are generally enough to either finish both enemies or remain 3v1 or 2v1 for a usually quick win.

Something the comp does very well is play around AI stallers. I usually leave them there until last then complain that it takes me 10 turns to kill them 4v1.
The kind of staller sets are more or less the same idea: a mix of Toxic, evasion, sandstorm, substitute, stockpile, rest, and similar shenenigans.
How to deal with them with this comp: once staller is identified or simply a threatening possibility, 2 are the mandatory step
1) Misty Terrain up
2) Knockoff Leftovers, Incense/Powder or Chesto Berry
Once this is done, and usually my priority, if the staller was actually in the lead, I just leave it there. I don't care of double team as I have Aerial Ace on Marowak, thus I make sure to preseve Marowak if a double team user is spotted. If Minimize, meet Heavy Slam. The Z-move is also generally left for them unless a significantly more threatening opponent shows.
Once the staller is isolated, I have the option to PP stall it, or send Vileplume to spam Sludge Bomb to poison it without having Terrain up, or just hit his butt enough times until it dies.


THREAT LIST
There are a few notable things that scream "deal me istantly or else" with this comp.

1) Turn 1 flinch
While TR not going up Turn 1 isn't necessarly a disaster, it's still a pretty big risk.
Flinches turn 1 typically come in 4 fashions: fast King's Rock users, Iron Head, Rock Slide, Fake Out.
Iron Head users have the bigger *FAKE OUT HERE* target in game possibly after poison/steel Z-users. Not only they threaten a Flinch, but they also threaten 1hko with a crit. Not having TR up turn 1 is acceptable, having Aromatisse die for free is not.
Turn 1 Fake Out users are overally a 50/50 bet: I might just fake out the other poke, if the enemy fake outs Hariyama, i get TR up, if it fake outs Aromatisse, I block the other poke so that turn nothing happens. Since nearly all Fake out users are Dark type or Ludicolo, they are not a threat to Aromatisse per se turn 2 to not have TR go up anyway. And Raichu just gets me to swap to Marowak and ignore it.
2) Turn 1 crit oneshots
If the enemy can hit either of the leads supereffectively for a crit 1hko, that's where fake out goes. I cannot afford to lose one of the lead for free, even if it's purely due to RNG.
If I run in the option to risk 1hko crit on both leads, I will always choose to make sure Aromatisse survives, as losing Trick Room and terrain is far more detrimental than losing Hariyama.
3) Bisharp-234 and Drapion-234
Special mention goes to Bisharp-234: all the sets carry Iron Head, and it has the potential to be immune to Fake out. If Bisharp reveals Pressure, I go obviously straight for the Fake out. If it doesn't, there's a good chance i swap into Marowak and closecombat its face rather than Fake out.
Drapion-23 while not immune to fake out, mostly carries high crit moves, Razor Claw on set 4, Stab Cross Poison AND can have Sniper. A Bisharp/Drapion lead past 30 is possibly the scaryes I can run into, and a non-Pressure Bisharp+Drapion lead is pure panic, where i have to fake out Drapion and pray RNG gods for no flinch and no crits.
4) Suicune-34
The sets per se aren't particularly scary: both die 1 or 2 hits from Vileplume, if not just deleted by Hariyama.
However, this is something very scary if it's left as last poke when I'm down to just my backline: Vileplume is weak to Blizzard and Marowak to Surf, though they can take like 3 hits each preboost and 2 at +1, it's still a very scary prospect if TR expired, due to them being both Spread moves.
5) 1HKO moves shenenigans
Not really something strictly of this comp, something we all have to deal with. If an enemy has a possibility to have a 1hko set, it gets the target mark on its face, with even Z-move and the likes thrown at it if the other active poke isn't 1hko material due to flat damage.
A possible 1hko user turn 1 gets my Fake out and focus the turns after, expecially if it actually reveals carrying the 1hko set.
6) Veteran Aino
Possibly the only trainer that would scare me just looking at the name. It's a psychic specialist. I have 2 poke weak to psychic, with the other weak to a common coverage move (Shadow Ball). Aino's basically down to if i can KO 4 of his poke before she deletes mine. The good news is that Gut-boosted Knockoff and Shadow Bone can 1hko nearly his entire lead, and Vileplume's coverage can also delete the Fairy ones.

Addendum: What the team could use:
- Wide Guard: not kidding, this comp would benefit immensely from Wide Guard support. However, unfortunately Hariyama cannot realistically give up any of the moves to get it, and even losing Heavy Slam or Knock Off would just outweight the benefits of having Wide Guard available.
- Sucker Punch or Shadow Sneak: mainly as answers to TR going off, but would also allow a reliable solution to a turn 1 Mega Gengar crit on Aromatisse (the spread makes aromatisse survive with something like 3 HP with highest damage roll and Lum would remove the possible poison proc, but i'd be prone to RNG crits).
- Taunt or Haze: would simply make stallers less of a nuisance, and make it easier to deal with setuppers which right now i'm forced to kill first before they can stack up bonuses.

That's all I could think of, hope it's a good read, will update on when the streak drops and if more adaptations are made.
 
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Re: Streak ends at battle 100, exactly as clockwork vs Grimsley with potential Inner Focus Bisharp + Drapion lead.
Managed to outplay the lead by sacrificing Marowak (which either ways doesn't have much use vs Grimsley), crit cross poison still happened once Aromatisse was sent in as expected.

TQ3W-WWWW-WWW8-9RMS battle record

If I decide to run the comp again, it will need to feature a way to deal with this threat, because Grimsley is not the only trainer who can have that comp as well.
 
Does anyone have a list of all of the Pokemon that can hold Brightpowder? I recently got a win streak (which I'll post about later). ended in large part due to Fake Out missing against a Brightpowder Lapras. I wouldn't mind having a list like that so, in certain situations, I can know who to target with Fake Out.
 
Hello everybody, me and my brother want to go very far in Multibattles together.
We can use 2 Megas, 2 Z-moves right? Any good suggestions where to start?
 
It really depends on what you aim to.

General consensus is that the way to go for multis is to have a lead capable of nuking down 2 enemy pokes in a row, in order to get a clean 2v1 situation. Thus very strong/fast megas and Z-move users are recommended as lead. After that it's all about having a backline that can deal with threats or stallers.

Remember that the biggest benefit of running multis with a friend is that you are going to be able to focus fire / have a synergic comp, whereas opposing AI might have contrasting comps or not good synergy.
 
Pretty happy to report that I'm back to 102 wins--not too impressive, but I have done it with a different sort of team, one not made by a Smogonite (it would actually be the second such team posted on this thread, but I don't think the one WallaceTheChampion posted several months back was made for Tree). It's a nice little bounceback for a Dusclops/Aron team, something that hasn't gained as much Tree traction as one would hope.

The idea here seems to be classic Dusclops/Aron, with a not-quite-0-Spe-IV Slowbro who is made Mega to make up for that, and a standard LO Sheer Force Nidoqueen set for when TR falls (at 96 Spe at Lvl.50, it's also okay for TR if the opposition is fast enough). The MegaBro is more of a Singles set, probably made because it's the next-slowest thing the Trainer had available and didn't want to tweak for Doubles.

I tried the team on a whim (I have been dabbling in Gen IV Frontier and needed a break from that after my most recent Tower streak was stopped due to my Platinum cartridge getting old and freezing mid-game), but have found it to be quite effective at what it tries to do (despite the fact that, as far as I can tell, none of the members are 0 Spe IV). I am sharing it now, partly because I've passed my run with Fight Club (Remix), partly because I encourage people using QR teams to venture outside the QR3--get on PGL, just search for random things, see what pops up! This team is Tree-specific but is not something I would host here otherwise. You may even find competitive or VGC teams able to get you somewhere in Tree. Also, partly because I've been motivated by a couple of Trainers returning to the Tree Discord channel after being on hiatus.

https://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/rentalteam/BT-30E7-4279 (Dusclops/Aron/Mega Slowbro/Nidoqueen, by Sascha)

EDIT: The team has been felled at 169 wins in Tree Super Doubles--in classic Dusclops/Aron fashion, the team was no match for Turn 1 Dusclops freeze, and my strategy so far for dealing with it (friendly fire with MegaBro Scald) was useless if the 'Bro was going to be mercilessly double-targeted by the opposition.

Video proof and (possibly) movesets to come later (though I really wish the original creator would just get on here and showcase the team instead)...

EDIT 2: Lazy about writing about other peoples' teams, so here's some photos instead! You calc people can figure out the EV spreads and IVs at your leisure.

- Dusclops = Sassy
- Aron = Quirky
- Mega Slowbro = Relaxed
- Nidoqueen = Modest

IMG_0638.JPG IMG_0639.JPG IMG_0640.JPG IMG_0641.JPG IMG_0642.JPG IMG_0644.JPG IMG_0645.JPG IMG_0646.JPGIMG_0643.JPG
 
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Okay, I need some advice. I've had three near leaderboard Super Singles runs (all ending from 81-87) using Salamence and Steelix, along with three different final members. I'm looking for a third member that ties the team together, since I've felt like whoever I try has been mostly dead weight. Here are the sets for Mence and Steelix:

Salamence@Salamencite
Adamant Nature, Intimidate, 252 Att/4 Def/252 Spe


Dragon Claw
Return
Dragon Dance
Earthquake

Steelix@Leftovers
Relaxed Nature, Sturdy, 252 HP/200 Def/56 SpD

Toxic
Protect
Earthquake
Heavy Slam

The pokemon I've tried in their places have been AV Slowking, Grassium Z Delphox (0/10 would not recommend), and Sub Petaya Empoleon. Slowking paired well type and statwise for the most part, but running AV meant if lost to many CM users, and Slowking AND Steelix on the same team was asking for poor flinch luck, which of course ended up happening. Delphox seemed like a good idea for like, 5 rounds, but ultimately just lacked the raw power to muscle through what it had to (thought it got much farther than I thought). Empoleon was suprisingly awful, mostly because it has no good way past other water types, and the run only got as far as it did due to dumb luck. Anyways, does anyone have suggestions for a final team member? I really am set on using Steelix, because it's really shone every time I've used it and I think it has potential for a good run with the right third teammate. I'm leaning towards a Water or Fire type, but am open to any suggestion really.
 
phoenix0wright said:
Okay, I need some advice. I've had three near leaderboard Super Singles runs (all ending from 81-87) using Salamence and Steelix, along with three different final members. I'm looking for a third member that ties the team together, since I've felt like whoever I try has been mostly dead weight. Here are the sets for Mence and Steelix:

Salamence@Salamencite
Adamant Nature, Intimidate, 252 Att/4 Def/252 Spe


Dragon Claw
Return
Dragon Dance
Earthquake

Steelix@Leftovers
Relaxed Nature, Sturdy, 252 HP/200 Def/56 SpD

Toxic
Protect
Earthquake
Heavy Slam

The pokemon I've tried in their places have been AV Slowking, Grassium Z Delphox (0/10 would not recommend), and Sub Petaya Empoleon. Slowking paired well type and statwise for the most part, but running AV meant if lost to many CM users, and Slowking AND Steelix on the same team was asking for poor flinch luck, which of course ended up happening. Delphox seemed like a good idea for like, 5 rounds, but ultimately just lacked the raw power to muscle through what it had to (thought it got much farther than I thought). Empoleon was suprisingly awful, mostly because it has no good way past other water types, and the run only got as far as it did due to dumb luck. Anyways, does anyone have suggestions for a final team member? I really am set on using Steelix, because it's really shone every time I've used it and I think it has potential for a good run with the right third teammate. I'm leaning towards a Water or Fire type, but am open to any suggestion really.
Click to expand...
have you tried chansey? its insane special bulk makes it a good choice for tree especially when paired with a physical wall like steelix. mega mence handles fighting types well enough too
 
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