Battle Spot Teambuilding Discussion & Help Thread (read post #453, page 19)

[ethan06]

I ran a couple of calcs and looked at the speed tiers, and there doesn't actually appear to be much of a benefit to running Jolly over Adamant, unless beating Darmanitan is really important. To be honest, there wasn't really much benefit either way against the real top threats, especially after a Dragon Dance; so I'd recommend just going Adamant 252.

 

[ethan06]

Okay, time for a team update. Sorry about the double post; I've left a bit of time though and I'd like to see what people think.

Manectric @ Manectite
Timid
Lightning Rod -> Intimidate
252 Sp. Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
-Thunderbolt
-Volt Switch
-Flamethrower
-Hidden Power [Ice]

Landorus @ Assault Vest
Jolly
Intimidate
252 Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
-Superpower
-U-Turn

Gourgeist @ Colbur Berry
Impish
Frisk
252 HP/168 Def/88 Atk
-Seed Bomb
-Shadow Sneak
-Leech Seed
-Will-o-Wisp

Heatran @ Air Balloon
Modest
Flash Fire
252 Sp. Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
-Fire Blast
-Flash Cannon
-Earth Power
-Ancient Power

Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Adamant
Huge Power
252 Atk/248 HP/8 Spd
-Belly Drum
-Aqua Jet
-Play Rough
-Superpower

Gengar @ Gengarite
Timid
Levitate -> Shadow Tag
252 Sp. Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
-Taunt
-Toxic
-Shadow Ball
-Sludge Bomb

Notable changes:
Swapped out Gyarados for BellyJet Azumarill
Swapped out Whimsicott for Taunt+Toxic Mega Gengar

After a lot of testing, I was finding that my team was evolving in a much more offensive direction, and I'd almost never bring Whimsicott to any of the games I played. However, I still needed something that would allow me to deal with Meowstic, Sableye and the pink blobs, which could easily sit in front of Pokémon like Manectric and completely annihilate me. I decided on Mega Gengar, a Pokémon that could trap and shut down Blissey completely and essentially Tox-stall it to death. In theory, it should also do okay against the Pranksters, particularly Whimsicott, but I haven't done any real meaningful testing with these two mons yet. In what little I have done, I've found that Mega Gengar's frailty very quickly lets it down so I'm happy to try something else in this slot. At the moment I really need an answer to the above Pokémon and Mega Venusaur...

Azumarill is a different story. I was finding that running three Intimidators was leaving me very open to opposing Bisharp, and Gyarados' coverage was disappointing in many matchups. Also, after removing Whimsicott I knew that I still needed a Fairy so I decided to give Azumarill a try. In the tests I've done, it's been able to put in some serious work; after a Belly Drum it is nigh unstoppable. However, adding Azumarill has really accentuated my weakness to Mega Venusaur; even before I added Azu I had troubles with it, and now it's only looking worse. So I'm looking for something that can a) deal with the pink blobs, b) defeat Mega Venu and c) stop Pranksters from setting up all over me. Another option is to put a random Flying or Psychic move somewhere; Fly Landorus, Psychic Gengar and Bounce Azumarill are all options that have occurred to me but the first two are frankly ridiculous and Bounce Azumarill requires that I rebreed it for an Azurill, which will mess with my IV breeding and basically take way too much time. Any other suggestions?

EDIT: Removed Gengar in favour of Espeon. Here's the set I'm using:

Espeon @ Leftovers
Modest
Magic Bounce
252 Spd/164 HP/92 Sp. Atk
-Psyshock
-Dazzling Gleam
-Calm Mind
-Baton Pass

This set is working out much better. I'm going to wait until Season 4 starts in a week's time before I truly test it, but in a few preliminary battles it's been performing much better than Gengar did. It's purpose is simple: come in on a status move or a moderately powerful special move (looking at you Venusaur) and set up some Calm Minds. After one Calm Mind I do a minimum of 90% with Psyshock, after two the OHKO is guaranteed, allowing me to take it out with minimal damage. I may need to goof around with a speed tier list to see if I can squeeze some more EVs into that Special Attack stat. We'll see :)

 

[Nighty]

Knowing that you replaced Whimsy makes me sad, I've always love that little ball of cotton, even though I have never used it in competitive before. I just like it's design and what it's meant to do, on paper, to the point where I inmediately breeded one as soon as I got a Cottonee, this is how it turned out:

Whimsicott @ Lagging Tail
Prankster
Impish Nature
252 HP/252 Def/4 SpDef
-Switcheroo
-Encore
-U-Turn
-Memento


I guess I could switch to Leftovers and run Stun Spore instead of Switcheroo, but I just like the permanence of giving a Lagging Tail, and I've 3v3 to be a format where you don't really need to screw with too many enemy mons, so I would be happy sticking to a formula of using Switcheroo on one Pokemon, and Memento on another one.

I still haven't decided to make a new team, but when I do, I really want to use Whimsy. I'm thinking of something different from my current prominently bulky team, something with these two, perhaps:

Houndoom @ Houndoominite
Flash Fire > Solar Power
Timid Nature
252 SpAtk/252 Spe/ 4 HP
-Nasty Plot
-Dark Pulse
-Fire Blast
-Destiny Bond

Pinsir @ Pinsirite
Moxie > Aerilate
Jolly Nature
252 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP
-Swords Dance
-Quick Attack
-Return
-Earthquake


The general idea I have is using three pairs filling similar roles (Supporter, Bulky Wallbreaker and Setup Sweeper) and being able to mix them as I see fit for every battle, but I'm not sure with what to fill the remaining roles. Maybe a Baton Pass Scolipede as my second Supporter choice? The Wallbreaker roles I even more stuck on due to my hipster-ish refusal to pick anything from the top usage rankings.

EDIT: By the way, is there some kind of secret deal to not use Pinsir on the Battle Spot? I have not seen it even once!

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Pinsir is a gamble. Fast mons with a rock move will make it skitter away and SR you will see on occasions, so you have to make sure to not mega too early. However, if you get it set up and it isn't walled (by something like Skarm) it will hit stupidly hard. Not to mention why would you use Mega Pinsir when you can use Mega Khan?

BP Scoli might not be a bad idea, but remember how many Charizard, Talonflames, and Mega Khans you will encounter... Not to mention the occasional Mega Pinsir.

 

[Nighty]

While I know it does get use, I have only seen SR a total of two times so far, but those other mons you mention? Yeah, I need to pick the right wallbreakers to handle those things to let either of my Mega Sweepers to do their thing.

I want to avoid using stuff like Mega-Khan for as long as possible, which is why I'm looking at Pinsir now. I understand this attitude doesn't help my odds when making good teams, but I want to stick by it. :$

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

I know how you feel, Mega Khan feels like cheating.

In VGC my rating rose like 200-300 points when I decided to use her (I feel so dirty).

Are you planning on using Ninetales in conjunction with MegaDoom?

 

[Nighty]

I'm not very keen on Ninetales, to be honest. While turning Mega-Doom into an absolute monster is nice, does it have anything else to provide on it's own? Not to mention it limits my team's already limited flexibility since it would not help much in cases where it's better if I bring Mega Pinsir to the battle.

I feel Scolipede and Whimsicott work well as replaceable supporters, with one giving me speed and defense boosts (maybe even a sub) against opponents that don't stop Scoli cold on it's tracks, and the other crippling particularly dangerous threats.

 

[cant say]

so I've been playing some singles and I've been flirting with a 1700 rating for a while but can't seem to stay there, often dropping down to the mid 1600's before climbing back up. Along the way my team has been constantly changing, trying to find something that works, but right now it's just a bunch of pokemon I think are kinda good by themselves but they don't form a really cohesive group. I sorta have both a FWG core as well as a DFS going, but I never seem to bring either of them together. Anyway this is what I have at the moment...

Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Iron Barbs
Relaxed 252 HP 6 Atk 252 Def
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball

Just used to check the omnipresent M-Kangaskhan, which it does a wicked job of, except the random ones which carry Fire Blast. I was thinking of swapping Gyro Ball with Iron Head because it obviously doesn't work well with Thunder Wave

Rotom-H @ Choice Specs
Levitate
Modest 252 HP 252 SpAtk 6 Speed
- Volt Switch
- Overheat
- Dark Pulse
- Trick

Just used to check the omnipresent Talonflame, which it does a wicked job of. He also works pretty well as a lead as a slow Volt Switch can help get something in safely (like keeping Dragonite's Multiscale intact), however lately I've been seeing a lot more ground types (chomp, gliscor, mamoswine, nidoking etc) which pretty much stops that in it's tracks

Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Multiscale
Adamant 6 HP 252 Atk 252 Speed
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch

Like I said, he usually waits around for a Volt Switch to come in on something that can't do much to it and start setting up, then pretty much suicide so someone else can clean up. There are a lot of steel and fairy types running around though so I'm thinking of dropping Outrage for Dragon Claw but I'm worried I'll miss the power. I kinda wanna fit Extremespeed in somewhere but I really enjoy the coverage he gets

Sharpedo @ Life Orb
Speed Boost
Modest 6 HP 252 SpAtk 252 Speed
- Surf
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Protect

(Thanks Hulavuta for recommending the special set)

I was going to go with a physical set and also Destiny Bond but I couldn't make my mind up on the moveset. He really benefits from Protect and if you also have Destiny Bond you only get two moves so I couldn't decide what I wanted to be able to hit. Also the meta seems to be teeming with Intimidate users and things heavily invested in physical defence (thanks kang) so this has been working awesome. I did have D-Bond with a focus Sash for a few battles but there's too much priority to pull it off so I put Protect on it. I feel like if I were more familiar with the speed tiers I'd be able to move some EVs into HP but for now I'll let it go. Overall though this thing has been putting in some serious work

Togekiss @ Choice Scarf
Serene Grace
Modest 6 HP 252 SpAtk 252 Speed
- Air Slash
- Flamethrower
- Dazzling Gleam
- Ancient Power

I just really like Togekiss so I wanted to use it somehow. I've had my fair share of battles against opponents with gimmicky / cheap sets so I thought I'd use my own. Not really much to say except just try and flinch your way to victory. I used to really like the T-wave / Air Slash / Roost combo but I'm not sure how well it would work here. Dazzling Gleam gets STAB and hurts dragons, Flamethrower can somewhat hurt Aegislash, I have Ancient Power because the idea of it + Serene Grace sounds good but in reality it will never see use. I mostly have it because once forgotten it's gone forever (pre-evo move) and it can kill Talonflame who will move ahead of Air Slash. Focus Blast would be helpful for Tyranitar and Heatran so I'll probably end up putting that in instead

Mega Kangaskhan
Scrappy > Parental Bond
Jolly 6 HP 252 Atk 252 Speed
- Return
- Power-Up Punch
- Earthquake
- Crunch

I suck... But it is good so yeah. I would have Sucker Punch but I suck at predicting. Also the meta is so over prepared for it now that it doesn't see as much action as it used to. If you can take out its counters or just weaken the opposing team enough it just does a ridiculous job cleaning up

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Anyway there you have it. I'm open to pretty much any ideas / criticism. I have a few things sitting in my pc that I wanna try out sometime like Char X/Y, HP fire Venusaur, sturdy/mirror coat Avalugg, mixed Chomp, Chansey/Blissey, Pinsir, Volcarona etc... I also used to use Belly Drum Azumarill which worked really quite well, I only dropped him for Togekiss as my fairy




also taking nickname suggestions, not even kidding


EDIT: since posting I had a nice little win streak (including a couple against 1900 ranked players) and am pushing 1800 myself now. Checked the global link and I'm sitting second in my country (Aus). The server is down for maintenance atm so this is where I'll probably finish for this season, still would have liked to try for that no. 1 spot though...

 

[Nighty]

How was tricking Specs with your Rotom working out for you? I personally find the Oven to be at it's very best in BP as a status (I run both T-Wave and Wisp) spreader that roasts the occasional mon weak to fire and then volt switches out.

After looking through my boxes, I found one Pokemon that I'm strongly considering for a wallbreaking-of-sorts role on my next team:

Breloom @ Life Orb
Technician
Adamant/Jolly?
252 Atk/252 Spe/4 HP
-Bullet Seed
-Mach Punch
-Rock Tomb
-Spore


I'm not experienced with Breloom, but considering it has Spore, Priority and Rock Tomb, it could do a good job handling the rampant Smogonbird and Mega-Mon, right? Does running Adamant makes it slower than anything important?

I was also thinking about Choice Specs Gothithelle as a Special Wallbreaker of sorts...

 

[cant say]

Nitewolf I've pretty much just got trick as a filler move (didn't breed for HP ice) but it sees it's use against defensive Pokemon. I like specs though because the power is crazy and is awesome when I lead with him and volt switch out. I actually intended to run dual status on him like you suggested so I might give it a try down the track..

Not sure how well Breloom is gonna do against talonflame and kangaskhan. 1v1 Breloom will lose so you have to catch them on the switch. Focus sash would help against talonflame but obviously useless against kang. I haven't used him too much in battle spot though so take what I say with a grain of salt I guess...

 

[Nighty]

Yeah, with Talonflame it will definitely be a matter of predicting the switch (or using Sash) with Rock Tomb and finishing off with Mach Punch, those two moves be capable of 2HKOing the damn thing, right? And would Jolly be needed to beat the priority clash? I need to learn more about calcs myself.

With Mega Khan I figure a Spore/Mach Punch combo would do the trick...

 

[cant say]

Yeah, with Talonflame it will definitely be a matter of predicting the switch (or using Sash) with Rock Tomb and finishing off with Mach Punch, those two moves be capable of 2HKOing the damn thing, right? And would Jolly be needed to beat the priority clash? I need to learn more about calcs myself.

With Mega Khan I figure a Spore/Mach Punch combo would do the trick...

Rock tomb is easily an ohko on talonflame so yeah like I said if you predict the switch and hit it with rock tomb then it's gone. Of course you don't have to predict that well, you could get it with spore on the switch and attack while it's napping. This is really the only way you'll be able to stop it with Breloom though because if you both lead with the two then you'll be switching out on turn one, same thing if they bring it in to revenge you. At the same time, kangaskhan outspeeds you and ohko's with Return so not even Mach punch will save you (
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 283-335 (80.6 - 95.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO). Of course he can easily finish her off though if she has been weakened already. I'm afraid I can't comment on whether adamant or jolly is better (hopefully someone else can help out here).

Don't get me wrong, Breloom is good in the battle spot (I've seen him pop up on our leaderboard), I just don't believe he's the best answer to those two threats

 

[Nighty]

After a long time of thinking about it and considering choices, I have come to this specific team for Singles:


Pranksters

Whimsicott @ Lagging Tail
Prankster
Impish Nature
252 HP/252 Def/4 SpDef
-Switcheroo
-Encore
-U-Turn
-Memento

Klefki @ Light Clay
Prankster
Impish Nature
252 HP/252 Def/4 SpDef
-Light Screen
-Reflect
-Foul Play
-Thunder Wave


Wall Breakers

Exploud @ Choice Specs
Scrappy
Modest Nature
252 SpAtk/252 Spe/4 HP
-Boomburst
-Focus Blast
-Surf
-Overheat

Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Thick Fat
Jolly Nature
252 Atk/252 Spe/4 HP
-Earthquake
-Ice Shard
-Icicle Crash
-Superpower



Mega Sweepers

Houndoom @ Houndoominite
Flash Fire > Solar Power
Timid Nature
252 SpAtk/252 Spe/ 4 HP
-Nasty Plot
-Dark Pulse
-Fire Blast
-Destiny Bond

Pinsir @ Pinsirite
Moxie > Aerilate
Jolly Nature
252 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP
-Swords Dance
-Quick Attack
-Return
-Earthquake


As I said some time ago, the general idea is to pick one from each pair for evey match, trying to choose the most useful combination against specific enemies.

What do you guys think? I realize it's far from perfect, but I feel with good prediction it could do good on the Battle Spot.

 

[Storm Eagle]

Jolly. Weakness Policy. Multiscale. 4/252/0/0/252/0

• Dragon Claw
• Dragon Dance
• Aqua Jet
• Extremespeed

Notes: 252 SpD allows it to survive an Ice Beam from LO Greninja, and many other Ice Type threats.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Impish. Mental Herb. Speed Boost. 252/124/8/0/124/0

• Rock Slide
• Protect
• Baton Pass
• Swords Dance

Notes: Baton Passer. EV Spread is to allow for even distribution of defenses, and for a /decent/ attack.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jolly. 252/252/0/0/0/8.

• Fake Out
• Sucker Punch
• Double Edge
• Power-Up-Punch

Notes: Baton Pass target.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jolly. 4/252/0/0/0/252.

• Stone Edge
• Earthquake
• Aerial Ace
• Crunch

Notes: Other Baton Pass target. Aerial Ace wipes out fighting types.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adamant. Life Orb. 4/252/0/0/0/252.

• Sacred Fire
• Extremespeed
• Bulldoze
• Stone Edge

Notes: Event. Allows for burnhax and strong priority. Bulldoze is for those pesky Rocks.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Relaxed. Leftovers. 252/0/252/0/4/0.

• Surf
• Rest
• Sleep Talk
• Calm Mind

Notes: Also event. Allows for walling, and PP stalling.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What do you guys think? Not much to display, but I don't know what else to say.

 

[ethan06]

After a long time of thinking about it and considering choices, I have come to this specific team for Singles.

What do you guys think? I realize it's far from perfect, but I feel with good prediction it could do good on the Battle Spot.

I feel like that would work well as a formula: support, wallbreaker, sweeper is well known as a way to create a solid win condition. However, a couple of these Pokémon seem a bit suboptimal. As someone who's used Whimsicott extensively, I feel like just speed control isn't that important if you run a priority sweeper or something that can similarly deal with the issues that come with speed tiers. It's main niche in Battle Spot is shutting down slower Pranksters with Taunt (particularly Meowstic and Sableye) and discouraging setup with Encore. Damage control is usually much more important as it can really help to make setup opportunities: Memento is great for that, but dual screens are better, especially in 3v3 where many battles end before the screens do. Depends on how well you can take advantage of the free turn. Try Whimsicott, for sure, but I do think Klefki will be better in the vast majority of situations unless the opponent brings a Prankster of their own.

The wallbreakers both look really solid: Exploud is brutal in a format like this. Boomburst destroys so many things that you could almost run it under Tailwind and just click Boomburst three times and win, so I feel it's the best non-mega solution in this case. On the other hand, Mamoswine is also great, but there are physical attackers who hit harder still: Haxorus (with a Choice Band or maybe LO+Swords Dance) levels practically everything except maybe Skarmory and has the added benefit of being able to get past Rotom with Mold Breaker. Mega Gyarados and Excadrill can do the same thing, as well as Rampardos if you're a real man. That said, do give Mamoswine a try. Here's a few good lists for checking out prospective wallbreakers:

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/stat/attack.shtml
http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/stat/sp-attack.shtml

Lastly, the sweepers. Mega Pinsir is amazing, so keep that. One thing I would change is Mold Breaker > Moxie, especially if you don't run Haxorus; In Battle Spot in particular, base Gengar and Rotom formes are everywhere and far more often you'll want to break down the Rotom that standing in your way rather than grab a boost that Swords Dance will give you anyway. Houndoom, on the other hand, is also amazing but has a couple problems. The most important one is the lack of reliablepriority or any way to boost it's speed (besides lolFlame Charge). While 115 is a great speed tier, if Houndoom is outspeed then it's outsped, and most likely taken right out due to it's frailty.Several things outspeed Houndoom that can hurt it badly - Greninja, Mega Manectric and Aerodactyl come to mind as things that outspeed and hit it, either killing it or pivoting out to something that can take a hit. And that's not even looking at all the possible priority abusers that can hit it hard - Azumarill, Conkeldurr, Talonflame, Mega Pinsir, Crawdaunt and so on. I'd say a better pick would be Nasty Plot Mega Lucario - while they have an equal 140 base Special Attack, Lucario's Adaptability is far more useful and powerful than Houndoom's Solar Power and it gets a far wider movepool, including special STAB priority in Vacuum Wave. With a simple moveset consisting of Nasty Plot, Vacuum Wave, Dark Pulse and your choice of Flash Cannon or Aura Sphere it's almst too easy to sweep a team, especially one that's been softened by your wallbreaker. As far as ability goes, Justified has little use on a special attacker and the mere threat of it will keep Dark moves at bay, so nabbing a Speed boost from a stray Fake Out or avoiding the flinch altogether for a free setup is golden. In summary (changes in green):

Whimsicott @ Leftovers
Impish
Prankster
252 HP/252 Def/4 Spd
-Taunt
-Encore
-Stun Spore
-Memento/U-Turn

Klefki @ Light Clay
Impish
Prankster
252 HP/252 Def/4 Sp. Def
-Light Screen
-Reflect
-Foul Play
-Thunder Wave

----

Exploud @ Choice Specs
Modest
Scrappy
252 Sp. Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
-Boomburst
-Fire Blast
-Overheat
-Surf

Haxorus @ Choice Band/Life Orb
Adamant
Mold Breaker
252 HP/252 Atk/4 Def
-Outrage/Dragon Claw
-Earthquake
-Poison Jab/Rock Slide
-Dragon Claw/Swords Dance

----

Pinsir @ Pinsirite
Jolly
Mold Breaker -> Aerilate
252 Atk/252 Spd/4 hP
-Swords Dance
-Quick Attack
-Return/Frustration
-Earthquake

Lucario @ Lucarionite
Timid
Inner Focus/Steadfast -> Adaptability
252 Sp. Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
-Nasty Plot
-Vacuum Wave
-Dark Pulse
-Aura Sphere/Flash Cannon

 

[Nighty]

Thanks for the feedback! I will make the changes to Pinsir and Whimsicott, as my previous use of Sableye has given me a profound love of Prankster Taunt.

I still wish to give Houndoom and Mamoswine some love, though, so I will try my luck with them and make the suggested replacements once it bites me in the ass.

 

[EnGarde]

Jolly. Weakness Policy. Multiscale. 4/252/0/0/252/0

• Dragon Claw
• Dragon Dance
• Aqua Jet
• Extremespeed

Notes: 252 SpD allows it to survive an Ice Beam from LO Greninja, and many other Ice Type threats.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Impish. Mental Herb. Speed Boost. 252/124/8/0/124/0

• Rock Slide
• Protect
• Baton Pass
• Swords Dance

Notes: Baton Passer. EV Spread is to allow for even distribution of defenses, and for a /decent/ attack.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jolly. 252/252/0/0/0/8.

• Fake Out
• Sucker Punch
• Double Edge
• Power-Up-Punch

Notes: Baton Pass target.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jolly. 4/252/0/0/0/252.

• Stone Edge
• Earthquake
• Aerial Ace
• Crunch

Notes: Other Baton Pass target. Aerial Ace wipes out fighting types.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adamant. Life Orb. 4/252/0/0/0/252.

• Sacred Fire
• Extremespeed
• Bulldoze
• Stone Edge

Notes: Event. Allows for burnhax and strong priority. Bulldoze is for those pesky Rocks.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Relaxed. Leftovers. 252/0/252/0/4/0.

• Surf
• Rest
• Sleep Talk
• Calm Mind

Notes: Also event. Allows for walling, and PP stalling.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What do you guys think? Not much to display, but I don't know what else to say.

*Scrolls up to make sure this is in the Battle Spot forum*

I notice that you're running 8 EVs in a couple of places, including Kanga and Scolipede. Assuming your pokemon have 31 IVs (or any odd number of IVs), using 8 EVs ends up throwing 4 EVs away at level 50. A good rule of thumb is this:

The pokemon's IV/2 + EV/8 must equal a whole number (source: http://nuggetbridge.com/articles/stepping-it-up-small-ways-to-improve-your-game/ ).

 

[DrZoidburglar]

Hi everyone! First post here. I hadn’t played a pokemon game since Red/Blue back in the day, but got back on board the PokeTrain with X and Y, and boy am I hooked. I’ve been reading smogon and playing on Battle Spot like crazy, and this team is the first one I’ve managed to crack 1600 on ranked with. I’ve been changing my team up constantly, but I’ve starting to settle on a team. I obviously still have a lot to learn, but I’m pretty happy with the first 3 pokes I listed here. The other ones I’m still experimenting with, and would love any suggestions/advice on how to improve.


Some of the issues I’ve been running into are minimize users (especially clefable), and Garchomp. Minimize users I can take out with Gengar’s perish trap set, but I’m not entirely happy with him overall. Garchomp I can revenge kill with Dragonite as long as he’s at full HP, but I usually lose 1 poke to him and cripple Dragonite in the process.


Here’s the team:


Kangaskan@Kangaskhanite
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252Atk / 252Spe / 4Def
Ability: Scrappy
Double-edge
Crunch
Sucker punch
Power-up punch

Pretty standard. Too good to say no to though. Double-edge is used over return to beat Cresselia and other walls at +2. I’ve been using crunch over EQ so kanga doesn’t get screwed over by Aegislash.



Dragonite@choice band
Nature: Adamant
EVs:252Atk / 252Spe / 4Def
Ability: Multiscale
Outrage
Extremespeed
Earthquake
Fire punch

I recently switched from the standard DDance/Lum berry set to the Choice band set and it’s been working out great so far! Some players don’t see it coming and expect a free turn while I DDance, choice band punishes them for that. CB Extremespeed hits surprisingly hard as well, revenge killing many fragile pokemon from almost full health. Dragonite also works pretty well as a possible lead with this set.


Machamp@assault vest
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 212Hp / 252Atk / 44Spe
Ability: No Guard
Stone edge
Dynamic punch
Knock off
Ice punch

My usual lead. No Guard Dynamic Punch is great for messing up the opponent’s opening, and knock off on the switch keeps messing with them. Stone Edge finally gets some reliability with No Guard, and OHKOs Charizard, who just barely fails to OHKO with Overheat. I just switched in Ice Punch over Bullet Punch. Priority was nice in theory, but it barely did any damage, even when supereffective.


Breloom@focus sash
Nature: Adamant
EVs:252Atk / 252Spe / 4Def
Ability: Technician
Bullet Seed
Spore
Rock Tomb
Mach Punch

Still experimenting here, as an alternate lead to Machamp/Dragonite. I also had no counter to opponent’s Brelooms putting me to sleep, and even having a grass pokemon in the battle box seems to stop people from bringing out theirs.


Zapdos@rocky helmet
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252HP / 168Def / 68SpA / 20Spe
Ability: Pressure
Thunderbolt
Roost
Defog
Heat Wave

Pretty standard Zapdos set. Unfortunately it’s HP is dark, and there’s not much that can be done about it. He does a pretty good job of countering Kanga, Thundurus, and Talonflame. With the rocky helmet and Roost he stall’s a lot of physical attackers. Not entirely sold on him though, any suggestions here to change/replace?


Gengar@Gengarite
Nature: Timid
EVs: 248HP / 84Def / 176Spe
Ability: Levitate
Perish Trap
Disable
Substitute
Protect

Pretty much entirely for removing Chansey/Clefable/Muk when they start spamming minimize. Not really sure how else to deal with Minimize Clefable especially. No Guard on Machamp is great for Chansey, but Dynamic Punch doesn’t do much to Clefable. Other suggestions for this spot are welcome, I’m just tired of losing to minimize users.


Thanks in advance for the advice everyone!
PS: I can't quite figure out how to insert images.. if anyone has a link to how to do so, that would be appreciated :D

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

You could just Iron Head them with Mega Mawile. Swords Dance when they Minimize and it'd pretty much be a OHKO if Clefable doesn't have a few Cosmic Powers up.

Mega Mawile synergizes really well with a Dragon partner such as Dragonite or Garchomp.

How does Zapdos counter Kanga?

Also you really have nothing to switch into a Mega Mawile...

 

[cant say]

DrZoidburglar how is crunch a better option over earthquake for Aegislash? Earthquake avoids kings shield and has a higher base power. I guess it works if they try switching to a flyer/levitator..

I also don't understand how Zapdos checks Kanga. I've found a lot of Japanese players use it as well but it gets 2hko'd by unboosted return...

 

[DrZoidburglar]

MythTrainerInfinity: How does Iron head counter minimize? Is it guaranteed to hit? and can't Dragonite switch in and survive a Play Rough if he's at full HP and either EQ or Fire Punch a Mawile? I haven't seen many (any?) Mawiles since I starting using this team.

cant say: You're right, EQ is great for Aeigi. I guess I meant ghosts in general, I just see a lot of Aegis online. And vs Kanga, as long as it's not boosted You can keep roosting while they kill themself aganst your rocky helmet

 

[cant say]

MythTrainerInfinity: How does Iron head counter minimize? Is it guaranteed to hit? and can't Dragonite switch in and survive a Play Rough if he's at full HP and either EQ or Fire Punch a Mawile? I haven't seen many (any?) Mawiles since I starting using this team.

cant say: You're right, EQ is great for Aeigi. I guess I meant ghosts in general, I just see a lot of Aegis online. And vs Kanga, as long as it's not boosted You can keep roosting while they kill themself aganst your rocky helmet

No, iron head does not have 100% accuracy against minimize or anything like that, but it hits them super effectively so it should get rid of them quickly. And no, Dragonite cannot switch in against a mega Mawile's play rough:

252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 289-342 (89.1 - 105.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

Even if it survives, Mawile can just pick it off with sucker punch.

Doing some more calcs, zapdos is going to be taking a lot more damage from a kangaskhan than it is going to be healing with roost.

252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Zapdos: 123-145 (62.4 - 73.6%)

So yeah I figured switching this thing in would be tough. The only move you want it using on the switch is earthquake except you don't have anything on your team to bait one into it to get the safe switch in, and every other move in kangaskhan's repertoire wrecks it. I just feel like zapdos is heavily outclassed by Cresselia and Skarmory as an earthquake-immune kangaskhan check.

As for your own Kanga, I feel like PoP is a bit redundant with double edge. You won't get much of a chance to smash things with all the recoil you'll be taking. Maybe swap in earthquake to avoid kings shield from Aegi or even (hear me out) fire blast to get opposing Ferrothorn and Skarmory

 

[DrZoidburglar]

Right, sorry. It was late when I was posting, I get the Iron head thing now. I already have a Mawile bred, so I'll try swapping Gengar out for her. She could serve as a check to choice-banded Garchomp too right?

Skarmory's not a bad idea either, and I have one with with standard SR set. is SR worth it in 3v3 or is there another move that would fill that slot better? I feel like getting rid of zapdos might open me up to talonflame, but I guess the combination of SR and extremespeed Dragonite could do the trick.

I'll play around with those when I get home from work and rewrite my team post based on how that goes. I'll try messing around with Kanga's moves too.

Finally, what are your thoughts on Breloom? I'm not entirely sold on him but I don't know what else to do about opposing spore users. It scares other people off of using their own brelooms and wrecks smeargle.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Hulavuta]

Skarmory's not a bad idea either, and I have one with with standard SR set. is SR worth it in 3v3 or is there another move that would fill that slot better? I feel like getting rid of zapdos might open me up to talonflame, but I guess the combination of SR and extremespeed Dragonite could do the trick.

Stealth Rock is definitely worth it in 3v3, and even if you don't need to use it, Rocky Helmet Skarmory is insanely good against almost all physical attackers.

Finally, what are your thoughts on Breloom? I'm not entirely sold on him but I don't know what else to do about opposing spore users. It scares other people off of using their own brelooms and wrecks smeargle.

I really like Assault Vest Goodra with Sap Sipper, it can come in on any Spore or other Grass attack. It can also give you a bit of momentum since not everyone knows that it's immune to Grass. If you decide to go with Skarmory, they'll have pretty good synergy, since Goodra has insanely good special defense and can take Fire and Electric attacks that Skarmory can't. It hard walls stuff like Vivillon which would destroy Breloom, and is a good general check to stuff like Aegislash, Rotom, Charizard-Y, or really any special attacker.

 

[DrZoidburglar]

I really like Assault Vest Goodra with Sap Sipper, it can come in on any Spore or other Grass attack. It can also give you a bit of momentum since not everyone knows that it's immune to Grass. If you decide to go with Skarmory, they'll have pretty good synergy, since Goodra has insanely good special defense and can take Fire and Electric attacks that Skarmory can't. It hard walls stuff like Vivillon which would destroy Breloom, and is a good general check to stuff like Aegislash, Rotom, Charizard-Y, or really any special attacker.

Goodra looks great, but I was really enjoying Assault Vest Machamp, and I can't run both. I feel like the combo of knock off and dynamic punch was gaining me a lot of momentum right off the bat. Any other ideas? I could try ditching Machamp, but him and Dragonite are probably my favorite team members right now.