BH Balanced Hackmons

[Geneku2]

Going through the banlist and find several things that could be freed:

I agree with most of this. None of the item's listed above present anywhere close the the problem's of broken-ness of overcentralization of the meta as seen with Zacian-C and Substitute.

Lumina Crash and Photon Geyser may still be a problem given Alakazam-Mega and Necrozma-Ultra.

Shedinja should be unbanned. There is no way it can deal with the onslaught that is Mortal Spin/Salt Cure/Stone Axe all at once. Boots/Cloak/Sash cannot cover everything. Even if unbanned, it's likely going to have low usage and viability.

Liquid Ooze itself should present trouble enough to FurScales teams. Counter-play options for FurScales is rather limited - for physical attackers especially who are hindered by Burning Bulwark/Strength Sap. Special Attackers, simultaneously, have more freedom than ever with Take Heart granting status immunity. The lack of physical viability and increased perks for special attackers encourages a one-sided metagame where only a single offensive/defensive stat matters. Even now, we are starting to see a decrease in the number of physically focused teams - physical attack is now much more reserved for pivot roles. In the long run, a special-only BH is not the way to go.

What this dude yappin bout?

Council seems very closed to new ideas, don't reckon that's healthy.

 

[TTTech]

I agree with most of this. None of the item's listed above present anywhere close the the problem's of broken-ness of overcentralization of the meta as seen with Zacian-C and Substitute.

Lumina Crash and Photon Geyser may still be a problem given Alakazam-Mega and Necrozma-Ultra.

Shedinja should be unbanned. There is no way it can deal with the onslaught that is Mortal Spin/Salt Cure/Stone Axe all at once. Boots/Cloak/Sash cannot cover everything. Even if unbanned, it's likely going to have low usage and viability.

Liquid Ooze itself should present trouble enough to FurScales teams. Counter-play options for FurScales is rather limited - for physical attackers especially who are hindered by Burning Bulwark/Strength Sap. Special Attackers, simultaneously, have more freedom than ever with Take Heart granting status immunity. The lack of physical viability and increased perks for special attackers encourages a one-sided metagame where only a single offensive/defensive stat matters. Even now, we are starting to see a decrease in the number of physically focused teams - physical attack is now much more reserved for pivot roles. In the long run, a special-only BH is not the way to go.



Council seems very closed to new ideas, don't reckon that's healthy.

One council member doesn't speak for the whole council lil bro

 

[The Guy Who Has Many Alts]

Are you tired of running fake Fur Coat mons that don't actually wall anything like Fraudino, Farceus and Questionabro? Feeling down that your supposed "Physical Wall" is getting 3HKO'd from neutral hits?

• 252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Garchomp-Mega Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Audino-Mega: 160-190 (39 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
• 252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Garchomp-Mega Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Arceus-Fairy: 168-198 (37.8 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
• 252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Garchomp-Mega Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Slowbro-Mega: 124-147 (31.4 - 37.3%) -- 85.4% chance to 3HKO

Well, it's about time you learn what a real Fur Coat mon looks like:

Avalugg @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Fur Coat
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Aurora Veil
- Chilly Reception
- Strength Sap
- Ice Hammer

Let's be honest here. Can you really call a Pokemon that takes damage from physical attacks a physical wall? Nay. Look at what a real physical wall can do:

• 252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Garchomp-Mega Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Avalugg: 121-144 (30.7 - 36.5%) -- 62.7% chance to 3HKO
• 252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Garchomp-Mega Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Avalugg in Snow: 82-97 (20.8 - 24.6%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
• 252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Garchomp-Mega Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Avalugg with an ally's Aurora Veil: 60-72 (15.2 - 18.2%) -- possible 6HKO
• 252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Garchomp-Mega Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Avalugg in Snow with an ally's Aurora Veil: 41-48 (10.4 - 12.1%) -- possible 9HKO

Finally, a real wall. Not some garbage <184 defense "physical wall" that has can't even avoid a 3HKO from a weak mon with <2000 attack like Mega Garchomp. A real Fur Coat mon does not rely on petty gimmicks like "type resistance". It simply stacks defense and shrugs off damage. Let's now observe the gap between Big Lugg and its competitors.

As you can clearly see, base Avalugg already has higher defense that the other "physical walls". Under prime conditions, Avalugg can reach over 3000 Defense. This is probably more defense than your entire team combined. You might be wondering how Avalugg can reach such high defences. It is because of mathematics. You see, Avalugg actually has a Phd in mathematics. That is why it chose to exist in the geometrically perfect form: a flat table. It symbolises the opposing Pokemon's heart monitor when they have to fight such a perfect Pokemon. The thing is, all of Avalugg's defense boosts are multiplicative. Fur Coat gives x2 defense. Snow gives x1.5 defense. Aurora Veil gives x2 defense. When you multiply 2x2x1.5, you get x6. Do you know what is equivalent to sextupling your defense? Removing the stat change cap and clicking Iron Defense 5 times.

That's all for this public service announcement. Expect the Avalugg population to sextuple after this post and expect a massive meta shift the likes no one have ever seen before after pathetic "physical attacker" finally meet a real physical wall.

 

[Fish Gaming]

View attachment 631395View attachment 631393

Are you tired of running fake Fur Coat mons that don't actually wall anything like Fraudino, Farceus and Questionabro? Feeling down that your supposed "Physical Wall" is getting 3HKO'd from neutral hits?

• 252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Garchomp-Mega Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Audino-Mega: 160-190 (39 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
• 252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Garchomp-Mega Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Arceus-Fairy: 168-198 (37.8 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
• 252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Garchomp-Mega Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Slowbro-Mega: 124-147 (31.4 - 37.3%) -- 85.4% chance to 3HKO

Well, it's about time you learn what a real Fur Coat mon looks like:

Avalugg @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Fur Coat
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Aurora Veil
- Chilly Reception
- Strength Sap
- Ice Hammer

Let's be honest here. Can you really call a Pokemon that takes damage from physical attacks a physical wall? Nay. Look at what a real physical wall can do:

• 252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Garchomp-Mega Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Avalugg: 121-144 (30.7 - 36.5%) -- 62.7% chance to 3HKO
• 252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Garchomp-Mega Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Avalugg in Snow: 82-97 (20.8 - 24.6%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
• 252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Garchomp-Mega Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Avalugg with an ally's Aurora Veil: 60-72 (15.2 - 18.2%) -- possible 6HKO
• 252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Garchomp-Mega Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Avalugg in Snow with an ally's Aurora Veil: 41-48 (10.4 - 12.1%) -- possible 9HKO

Finally, a real wall. Not some garbage <184 defense "physical wall" that has can't even avoid a 3HKO from a weak mon with <2000 attack like Mega Garchomp. A real Fur Coat mon does not rely on petty gimmicks like "type resistance". It simply stacks defense and shrugs off damage. Let's now observe the gap between Big Lugg and its competitors.

View attachment 631400

As you can clearly see, base Avalugg already has higher defense that the other "physical walls". Under prime conditions, Avalugg can reach over 3000 Defense. This is probably more defense than your entire team combined. You might be wondering how Avalugg can reach such high defences. It is because of mathematics. You see, Avalugg actually has a Phd in mathematics. That is why it chose to exist in the geometrically perfect form: a flat table. It symbolises the opposing Pokemon's heart monitor when they have to fight such a perfect Pokemon. The thing is, all of Avalugg's defense boosts are multiplicative. Fur Coat gives x2 defense. Snow gives x1.5 defense. Aurora Veil gives x2 defense. When you multiply 2x2x1.5, you get x6. Do you know what is equivalent to sextupling your defense? Removing the stat change cap and clicking Iron Defense 5 times.

That's all for this public service announcement. Expect the Avalugg population to sextuple after this post and expect a massive meta shift the likes no one have ever seen before after pathetic "physical attacker" finally meet a real physical wall.

avalugg fans when they learn special attacks exist and they spend 2 turns setting up for nothing:

ok but fr resources were updated and honestly yea i agree with the current vr

here's a set
ghost (Registeel) @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Topsy-Turvy
- Recover
- Glare
- Parting Shot

 

[Geneku2]

Ladies and Gentlemen of the forums, I am here to complain.

The Endless Battle Clause is a rule in Pokemon Showdown that prevents battles from never ending. If the rules for an endless battle are detected, the system automatically declares an endless battle and forces a draw. The rules are as follows:

• Any Pokémon healed by a foe’s Heal Pulse or Floral Healing becomes stale.
• Any Pokémon affected by a foe’s Entrainment or Skill Swap becomes stale.
• Any Pokémon using (consuming) an acquired restorative berry (defined as a PP-restoring berry like Leppa Berry or an HP-restoring berry such as Sitrus Berry that the Pokemon did not start the battle with; for example, one obtained via Fling, Trick, Harvest, Recycle, Bug Bite, Pluck, Pickup, etc.) becomes stale.
• If at any point after the first 100 turns of battle all Pokémon on the field are stale, at least one team does not have the option of switching to a non-stale Pokémon, and at least one side's Pokémon's staleness has been inflicted by a Pokémon of the opposing side, the game ends. If only one side started the battle with the rudimentary means to perform restorative berry-cycling (defined to be a team containing a Pokémon holding a restorative berry as defined above and a Pokémon with Recycle, Harvest, or Pickup), it loses. Otherwise, the battle ends in a tie.
• The maximum length of any battle is 1000 turns, after which the game ends in a tie.

Staleness is defined as follows:

• A Pokemon meets one of the following conditions: whether or not the Pokemon has been healed via Heal Pulse or a berry it didn't initially have or had its ability changed via Entrainment or Skill Swap. - From Mathy

As G9BH is a metagame of very long and stalled battles, it is easy to unintentionally activate the endless battle clause via Entrainment, even when the battle has a definite end as seen in the following battle: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9balancedhackmons-2125311602-f9fdiydceby4d10qylt0bu0itj0zuo2pw

I would like to propose an amendment to the Endless Battle Clause specifically for Balanced Hackmons as such to exclude the 4th point on the list. The Endless Battle Clause covers many cases in standard Pokemon battles; however, due to the nature of BH many of the elements that would cause endless battles in standard competitive play are simply everyday occurrences in BH due to the freedom of Pokemon, Ability and Move combinations.

In other words: skill issue, I should have bug-fixed all of the issues in Pokemon Showdown before playing.

 

[Onyx Onix 7]

Since there weren't any sample teams available at the moment, I'll pitch in one of my teams for consideration:

Team Name: Phantasmagoric Hallucinations

Synopsis: Phantasmagoric Hallucinations is a hyper offense built around overloading common answers to special attackers and Ghost types. The team features a variety of aggressive Pokemon to accomplish this: Gunk Shot No-Retreat Arceus-Ghost to blast through Mega Audino, Simple Moongeist Spectrier to tear right through Ice Scales and Blissey, Simple Flutter Mane to destroy Dark-Types and Final Gambit Lunala and Sturdy Zoroark-H to take just about anything out of commission.

Pokepaste: https://pokepast.es/e7b31e4bd7f2a14f

Usage Tips:
1. Typically the best lead is Lunala as it counters many common leads like Regenerator and Imposter Chansey
2. Spectrier and Arceus Ghost are generally the strongest early and mid game options to break through opposing teams and setup an endgame where Flutter Mane and and Zoro-H can dominate
3. If you ever find yourself backed into a corner or need to make a sack going Gholdengo and triggering Destiny Bond is generally the best option
4. Be mindful of hazards as the team uses multiple Sashes and Sturdy

Weaknesses: Stone Axe, Ho-Oh, Ash-Greninja, Random Fur Coat Dark Types, Priority, Speed Boost, and Population Bombers.

Effectiveness: Can easily rip through many teams as most teams are unprepared for the onslaught of powerful set-up sweepers. Defeated even teams with multiple counters to Ghost types like the Wandering Spirit Stall. It does tend to struggle a bit with Greninja and random ladder garbage like random Fake Out Extreme Speed users, however.

Additional Notes:
*Zoro-H is immune to almost all of the attacks of its teammates and thus is an excellent back up plan vs Imposter
* Lunala is EVed so it always outspeeds and kills off opposing Imposters
* Rapid Spin is used on Arceus Ghost to clear hazards for Zoro-H and the other Sash abusers
* Sometimes it's better to go for the speed tie or Destiny Bond trade against Imposter instead of going to Zoro-H in order to preserve momentum

Replays showing how to correctly play the team (Unfortunately I don't have much time to ladder anymore so these will have to suffice. I'm very confident in the team's ability to reach top 10 or higher but again I don't have the time to take it there at the moment):
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9balancedhackmons-2128455915?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9balancedhackmons-2127728419?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9balancedhackmons-2130006709-ra0a1yjhcfyog5p6ge6kxpulqjdzx98pw

Edit 2: Got team into top 10 as predicted with ease:

Replay as proof:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9balancedhackmons-2138940707-fe4gdn6lje8aqel1ob5i7thzpd2dnfgpw

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Demonic duo

Audino-Mega @ Grip Claw
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Moonblast
- Infestation
- Encore
- Destiny Bond

Celesteela @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Beak Blast
- Spirit Shackle
- Encore
- Strength Sap

Trap + prankster + encore is one of the most underated combos. The idea is to bait weak moves like knock off, set up or healing moves, which just about every mon carries. If your opponent chooses to use any passive move on the turn where you hit them with a trapping move, you can punish them and either bring them to death or pp stall their healing moves. The insane part is, this works on every pokemon that isn't ghost, dark, has magic bounce or faster and powerful priority moves. Unlike most other trapping strategies, if your opponent can't outspeed prankster encore, you only need your opponent not to pivot or phaze you for one move instead of 2, heavily increasing the difficulty to play around it.

These 2 sets can be used individualy but complement each other nicely, both on typing and on strategy.

Maudino can trap for 7 turns while dealing passive damage. With grip claw, 7/8 of the health is getting depleted through passive damage only leaving 1/8 of full HP to remove through moonblast while you encore him. This obliterates most defensive pokemon forcing your opponent to go for offensive options that can be destiny bonded. Prankster Dbond is a classic way of stopping nearly every sweeper that has managed to set up, but with encore, your opponent usualy can't pp stall d bond with his set up move, because Maudino will end up killing it's enemy through infestation instead of killing both pokemon. Because of this forcing strategy, Maudino usualy gets 1 kill even in it's worst games nearly garenteeing a +0, but It's pretty common that Maudino kills 2 or 3 mons in a game. The first kills through encore trapping and the last through destiny bond. Moonblast might seem weak but it's damaging enough to darks which are immune to encore (but not to d bond since it doesn't target). Maudino has a hard time killing imposters and should usualy switch out, but imposters can't consistantly switch-in on him because of his lack of recovery. Grip claw is used over binding band to pp stall recover.

Celesteela traps forever through spirit shackle, a move that does not trigger rocky helmet or an imposter's beak blast because it does not cause contact. It also deals half decent damage to ghost types that can't be trapped although not close to being enough to 2 shot arceus and giratina. Beak blast packs decent STAB damage and, along with rocky helmet, can punish u-turn and flip turn users which trappers struggle with. Burn + strength sap + amazing defensive typing also makes celesteela very bulky on the physical side, increasing greatly the number of moves being potential encore bait and resisting moves that would kill Maudino. On a turn where an opposing chansey switches in to spirit shackle, your best bet is to use strength sap until your opponent encore's you. If your ssap comes out first, you're sure to pp stall the imposter. If not, you can risk a second speed tie or just switch out before being trapped yourself and lose 0 hp in the process.

Use these sets with counters to extremespeed and triage who's greater priority completely ruins encore + prankster. These sets also pair well with slow pivotters since your opponent basicaly can't set up on the same turn you pivot because of the threat of being encored which often makes set up sweepers sitting ducks until both encore users are dead or out of pp.

 

[Fish Gaming]

Demonic duo

Audino-Mega @ Grip Claw
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Moonblast
- Infestation
- Encore
- Destiny Bond

Celesteela @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Beak Blast
- Spirit Shackle
- Encore
- Strength Sap

Trap + prankster + encore is one of the most underated combos. The idea is to bait weak moves like knock off, set up or healing moves, which just about every mon carries. If your opponent chooses to use any passive move on the turn where you hit them with a trapping move, you can punish them and either bring them to death or pp stall their healing moves. The insane part is, this works on every pokemon that isn't ghost, dark, has magic bounce or faster and powerful priority moves. Unlike most other trapping strategies, if your opponent can't outspeed prankster encore, you only need your opponent not to pivot or phaze you for one move instead of 2, heavily increasing the difficulty to play around it.

These 2 sets can be used individualy but complement each other nicely, both on typing and on strategy.

Maudino can trap for 7 turns while dealing passive damage. With grip claw, 7/8 of the health is getting depleted through passive damage only leaving 1/8 of full HP to remove through moonblast while you encore him. This obliterates most defensive pokemon forcing your opponent to go for offensive options that can be destiny bonded. Prankster Dbond is a classic way of stopping nearly every sweeper that has managed to set up, but with encore, your opponent usualy can't pp stall d bond with his set up move, because Maudino will end up killing it's enemy through infestation instead of killing both pokemon. Because of this forcing strategy, Maudino usualy gets 1 kill even in it's worst games nearly garenteeing a +0, but It's pretty common that Maudino kills 2 or 3 mons in a game. The first kills through encore trapping and the last through destiny bond. Moonblast might seem weak but it's damaging enough to darks which are immune to encore (but not to d bond since it doesn't target). Maudino has a hard time killing imposters and should usualy switch out, but imposters can't consistantly switch-in on him because of his lack of recovery. Grip claw is used over binding band to pp stall recover.

Celesteela traps forever through spirit shackle, a move that does not trigger rocky helmet or an imposter's beak blast because it does not cause contact. It also deals half decent damage to ghost types that can't be trapped although not close to being enough to 2 shot arceus and giratina. Beak blast packs decent STAB damage and, along with rocky helmet, can punish u-turn and flip turn users which trappers struggle with. Burn + strength sap + amazing defensive typing also makes celesteela very bulky on the physical side, increasing greatly the number of moves being potential encore bait and resisting moves that would kill Maudino. On a turn where an opposing chansey switches in to spirit shackle, your best bet is to use strength sap until your opponent encore's you. If your ssap comes out first, you're sure to pp stall the imposter. If not, you can risk a second speed tie or just switch out before being trapped yourself and lose 0 hp in the process.

Use these sets with counters to extremespeed and triage who's greater priority completely ruins encore + prankster. These sets also pair well with slow pivotters since your opponent basicaly can't set up on the same turn you pivot because of the threat of being encored which often makes set up sweepers sitting ducks until both encore users are dead or out of pp.

there's multiple ways this can fail, such as
- Normal types (immune to spirit shackle on the steela set)
- Non-contact pivot moves (teleport, chilly reception)
- Magic Bounce (stops any encore shenanigans)
- Not having space on your team for better maud / steela uses

in general, why bother using this when you could use maud and steela for way better things?

If you want a good trapping mon, there's good ol reliable

Dialga-Origin @ Adamant Crystal
Ability: Wandering Spirit
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Doom Desire
- Thunder Cage
- Ruination
- Strength Sap

there's a post from febuary that explains this thing and how amazing it is

 

[Sweet Jesus]

there's multiple ways this can fail, such as
- Normal types (immune to spirit shackle on the steela set)
- Non-contact pivot moves (teleport, chilly reception)
- Magic Bounce (stops any encore shenanigans)
- Not having space on your team for better maud / steela uses

in general, why bother using this when you could use maud and steela for way better things?

If you want a good trapping mon, there's good ol reliable

Dialga-Origin @ Adamant Crystal
Ability: Wandering Spirit
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Doom Desire
- Thunder Cage
- Ruination
- Strength Sap

there's a post from febuary that explains this thing and how amazing it is

I think you're just underestimating prankster encore. I beat some top 10 ladder player with these sets and I play less than 30 games a year. There are too many deadly threats to try to counter everything in this tier. This highly increases the value of versatility and these sets are just that. Prankster encore trapping means you don't need to play the typing game, aren't shut down by haze and topsy turvy and can act both offensively and defensively. The value of depleting a healing move's pp or getting rid of a sweeper early game when people are still just scouting and switching can't be overstated and just about anything that isn't choice locked or regenvest carries one of those moves and heavily relies on it (and regenvesters can be trapped and encore'd in their knock off, spin, etc.).

The set you've posted seems good, I can see how it's hard to play around, but it does not stop your opponent from simply switching out his regeneration mons instead of pivoting once the ability is revealed. While it does deal big damage if you give it two or three moves on the field, what's it going to do when a simple lunala uses no retreat in it's face? With prankster encore that isn't a threat. That's the beauty of the set: even with a shitty attack and before you've even thrown out a move, if your opponent can be trapped and doesn't run magic bounce or a dark typing, he cannot heal or set up when these mons are on the field.

Other little notes:

-There's barely any normal types in the tier, Maudino is the main one.
-You can easily find space for mons this versatile, that's the point of versatility
-Non contact pivot moves are not a problem, as long as your opponent uses something else on the turn you trap him. The dialga set on the other hand cannot remove regenerator nore trap a non-contact pivot user.
-Even if you can't trap something, the simple threat of prankster encore will force mind games
-There's a good chance Maudino counters whatever Celesteela can't kill and vice versa, and if it's not the case, there's a good chance Maudino can at least D bond it and that Celesteela becomes a major pain once it's counter is gone.

Try it out. Once you get used to prankster encore, it feels wrong to play without it.

 

[Fish Gaming]

I think you're just underestimating prankster encore. I beat some top 10 ladder player with these sets and I play less than 30 games a year. There are too many deadly threats to try to counter everything in this tier. This highly increases the value of versatility and these sets are just that. Prankster encore trapping means you don't need to play the typing game, aren't shut down by haze and topsy turvy and can act both offensively and defensively. The value of depleting a healing move's pp or getting rid of a sweeper early game when people are still just scouting and switching can't be overstated and just about anything that isn't choice locked or regenvest carries one of those moves and heavily relies on it (and regenvesters can be trapped and encore'd in their knock off, spin, etc.).

The set you've posted seems good, I can see how it's hard to play around, but it does not stop your opponent from simply switching out his regeneration mons instead of pivoting once the ability is revealed. While it does deal big damage if you give it two or three moves on the field, what's it going to do when a simple lunala uses no retreat in it's face? With prankster encore that isn't a threat. That's the beauty of the set: even with a shitty attack and before you've even thrown out a move, if your opponent can be trapped and doesn't run magic bounce or a dark typing, he cannot heal or set up when these mons are on the field.

Other little notes:

-There's barely any normal types in the tier, Maudino is the main one.
-You can easily find space for mons this versatile, that's the point of versatility
-Non contact pivot moves are not a problem, as long as your opponent uses something else on the turn you trap him. The dialga set on the other hand cannot remove regenerator nore trap a non-contact pivot user.
-Even if you can't trap something, the simple threat of prankster encore will force mind games
-There's a good chance Maudino counters whatever Celesteela can't kill and vice versa, and if it's not the case, there's a good chance Maudino can at least D bond it and that Celesteela becomes a major pain once it's counter is gone.

Try it out. Once you get used to prankster encore, it feels wrong to play without it.

Counterpoints.
First off, WHY WOULD YOU HAVE THIS THING IN ON AN SNR LUNALA
Secondly, that's the point of Wandering Spirit. When they inevitably click U-turn on it, wandering spirit kicks in, steals the ability, and denies the enemy healing.
There's a few others, Arceus-Normal, Meloetta, Blissey, god forbid normal chansey.
Yeah but Maud and celesteela can both run way better sets, and maybe you can give other mons this set.
Most regenerator mons run assault vest, and unless ppl start running volt switch, all potential pivot moves are contact.
Oh yeah, you also claim you've "beaten ppl at top 10 on ladder" with these sets, but you aren't providing replays.

 

[rightclicker]

Arceus-Normal

i’m sorry this one is barely viable

Oh yeah, you also claim you've "beaten ppl at top 10 on ladder" with these sets, but you aren't providing replays.

it’s really not that hard when some people all over on the top of ladder still run stuff like fc mega aggron farmed by imposter (not gonna name anyone if you’re reading this you know who you are)

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Counterpoints.
First off, WHY WOULD YOU HAVE THIS THING IN ON AN SNR LUNALA
Secondly, that's the point of Wandering Spirit. When they inevitably click U-turn on it, wandering spirit kicks in, steals the ability, and denies the enemy healing.
There's a few others, Arceus-Normal, Meloetta, Blissey, god forbid normal chansey.
Yeah but Maud and celesteela can both run way better sets, and maybe you can give other mons this set.
Most regenerator mons run assault vest, and unless ppl start running volt switch, all potential pivot moves are contact.
Oh yeah, you also claim you've "beaten ppl at top 10 on ladder" with these sets, but you aren't providing replays.

Blissey gets bonked by beak blast. I don't play much, but haven't seen meloetta ever since MMY got banned. And as rightcliker said, please don't use normal arceus.

I don't know what I said that makes you think I don't understand wandering spirit. What I'm saying is teleport, chilly reception and even volt switch will bypass WS. Encoring a non pivot move will work regardless of the form of pivot your enemy packs.

Didn't save the game vs the top 10 player (I think I was using a variation of the posted Maudino). Here's one against someone who's ranked 13 at the time of this posting . Hope I'm not spoiling a secret team.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9balancedhackmons-2130583849?p2

PS: that steelix switch out on turn 46 felt sooo good.

 

[Chessking345]

Threat Assessment - DLC2 V1 (Pre-OMPL)
VR updated so time for this update, also 1k post cool​

This is basically a congregation of the meta mons, the sets they run, and how to check/counter them, except this time I skipped some of the more defensive mons because I am lazy (also with OMPL pretty likely to have major meta shifts). List is in order of viability rankings (as of May 15), Pokemon that can check/counter regardless of their own set are placed at the end to avoid confusion. More niche checks are separated by a |. Here are the BH analyses and the setpedia if you don't know the sets.
This also serves as an option for players to consider some Pokemon lower on the viability rankings as options on teams instead of recycling defensive cores. This is likely not comprehensive and there's a guaranteed chance that I've missed something so let me know on Discord if I need to change anything. (Yes this is pre-OMPL I had this written up before w1 games).

Legend

Do note that in BH generally "checks and counters" are used less traditionally compared to most other metas. In normal discussions and such "checks" typically refer to Pokemon that can answer the typical sets or most moves on a Choiced set (basically act as a generally accepted defensive answer, see Sometimes Counters and below) while "counters" typically refer to Pokemon that can answer practically every viable set and/or go beyond by limiting even other progress making attempts (e.g. blocking hazards, Spins, Sap recovery) (see Generally Counters).

Generally Counters: Counters most viable variants of the set
Sometimes Counters: Counters some variants of the set, typically dependent on coverage
Soft Checks: Generally shaky as an answer and is not reliable as the only answer (such as requiring to be near full health to avoid range or taking huge damage from a coverage), or a defensive pivot that can take hits and bring in teammates safely
Offensive Checks: Offensive threats that win the 1v1, typically by either outspeeding or surviving any hit and OHKOing back. Generally relies on pivots from "Soft Checks"

It is important to realize that the answers vary depending on the sets threats use and so identifying the set is highly important. Imposter or bulky Regen scouting are obvious choices but it is also possible to guess the set through looking at the team. For offensive Pokemon looking at potential opposing Improofs and for defensive Pokemon look at their partners and basic threat check to infer the ability (also calc, calcing can basically immediately give away offensive ability + item or defensive FurScales).
Notes: (SpD) refers to either RegenVest or Ice Scales. Normalize Pokemon can offensively check anything that cannot touch them are are slower so I'll exclude them.

Sniper

Generally Counters: (Fur Coat) | (Fur Coat)
Sometimes Counters: (Fur Coat)
Soft Checks: (Imposter) (Fur Coat) | (Fur Coat)
Offensive Checks: (Pixilate) |

Choice Band Sniper AshGren has one of the highest raw damage outputs in the meta, combined with good neutral coverage STABs and coverage allows it to basically 3HKO even the bulkiest defensive answers. Considering that it outspeeds almost all of them as well it forces immediate recovery, which demands that defensive answers are not easily Sapblocked. Dark resists are valuable, especially in tandem with Rocky Helmet to harshly punish Surging Strikes. The few defensive answers that outspeed AshGren are more resilient as they can play less conservatively. It should be noted that AshGren frequently runs Frost Breath, which while it rarely wants to click will harshly punish several otherwise solid switch-ins.

Special Setup

Generally Counters: (Ice Scales) (Fur Coat) | (FurScales)
Sometimes Counters: (Plate Imposter) (Ice Scales) (Unaware)
Soft Checks: (RegenVest)
Offensive Checks: |

Ghostceus primarily sets up through Take Heart or Nasty Plot, though Torch Song is seen occassionally. With typing and potential defense boosts granted by Fur Coat and Take Heart it can be challenging to threaten Ghostceus. Ghostceus is also unique in able to run Recover and also bypass Blissey with Secret Sword. Without Magic Guard Ghostceus is annoyed by Salt Cure, and if it also lacks Take Heart then Mortal Spin becomes threatening. Topsy-Turvy users can shut down reasonably well, especially when combined with slow pivoting and a revenge-killer. It should be noted that while rare, Speed Boost and Rapid Spin can completely reverse the matchup on offensive checks. Different Ice Scales Pokemon can also engage in setup wars and usually come on top thanks to Scales, but it should be noted that Tidy Up sets lose against Strength Sap variants. Plate Imposter is decent but can easily be denied healing by opposing Imposter or get Knocked.

No Retreat

Generally Counters: (Plate Imposter) (Ice Scales) (Fur Coat) (Prankster)
Sometimes Counters: (Ice Scales) (Unaware)
Soft Checks: (Imposter) (RegenVest)
Offensive Checks:

Dealing with No Retreat Ghostceus typically involves neutralizing its stat boosts. Topsy-Turvy completely shuts it down while Strength Sap practically guarantees at least one full heal and neutralizes the Attack. Covert Cloak on checks provide a lot of safety due to side effects from coverage. Also due to one-time setup various Take Heart users can setup, as well as Tidy Up sets due to lack of Strength Sap. Plate Imposter is significantly better here and Eviolite Imposter also can PP stall some Judgments in a pinch. Offensive checking is nearly impossible due to stat boosts, though despite not being listed a full health AshGren lives against Poison-move variants and OHKOs back with Wicked Blow.

Choice Specs

Generally Counters: (Ice Scales) (RegenVest)
Sometimes Counters: (Ice Scales) (RegenVest) (Primordial Sea) |
Soft Checks: (Imposter) (RegenVest) (Ice Scales) | (RegenVest)
Offensive Checks: (Pixilate) (Choice Scarf) |

Mega Alakazam's raw power and coverage options make it challenging it to answer it consistently, often requiring abusing the choice lock. Moongeist Beam boasts enough power to 2HKO Ice Scales users after the slightest chip, while most resists to it are threatened by STAB or coverage. Psycho Boost also deals enough to Ice Scales users to force recovery, meaning dealing with Sapblocks are necessary. RegenVests that are not susceptible to massive damage are excellent midgrounds to scout choice lock. Imposter can check if needed due to Zam's high SpD and BoR cancelling out. Due to its speed there are limited offensive checks. Should be noted that MegaZam does have a degree of 4MSS so there is a small possibility where its missing one of Moongeist/Fire/Fleur coverage, allowing more stuff to answer it.

Setup

Generally Counters: (RegenVest) (Primordial Sea) | (Primordial Sea)
Sometimes Counters: (Imposter) (RegenVest) (Ice Scales)
Soft Checks: (Ice Scales) (RegenVest)
Offensive Checks: |

Eternatus pretty much always runs Dragon Energy, a Poison move, and Torch Song. Despite having a fixed moveset, it can be deceptively difficult to answer especially with the varied abilities. Magic Guard provides the most power, immunity to chip, and can bypass Blissey with Shell Side Arm. Teravolt is rarer currently but punishes Ice Scales. Unaware generally takes a more defensive role but can flip the matchup against Take Heart users. RegenVests are generally a great check due to reliable SpD boosts and threatening with Knock or pivoting, but needs to be wary of status. Offensive checks can work well with Etern's somewhat awkward Speed and lack of boosting.

Take Heart

Generally Counters: (Ice Scales)
Sometimes Counters: (Unaware) (Ice Scales - typing dependent) |
Soft Checks: (Salt Cure)
Offensive Checks: (Typically need chip)

I'm going to be extremely lazy here and lump these together. Take Heart Arceus is generally all very similar in set, running something along STAB + Thunder Cage + Sap + Take Heart. There may be small deviations for formes like Electric and Water. These sets need to attempt to selfproof which makes them susceptible to Sapblock. Salt Cure is one of the more splashable countermeasures, as it allows a healthy Imposter to 1v1, and most Salt users are RegenVest which retains momentum. Topsy-Turvy is another option that can force out, though most users can be susceptible to TCage chip. Engaging in Take Heart wars can be an option, especially with advantageous typing and/or Scales vs FC. Slow pivoting and faster nuclear wallbreakers can revenge-kill at varying health levels depending on boosts ability and typing, physical have an advantage.

Flare Boost

Generally Counters: (Ice Scales) (RegenVest) | (Sand Stream)
Sometimes Counters: (Ice Scales) (RegenVest)
Soft Checks: (Imposter) (Ice Scales) (RegenVest)
Offensive Checks: (Pixilate) (Choice Scarf) |

Flare Boost has a lot of unique traits for a special wallbreaker. It is not choice locked, is resilient to Knock Off, has a good matchup into Blissey, and still has the coveted STAB Moongeist Beam. The latter makes it very difficult for most Ice Scales users to handle. Ice Scales Normal-types serve as very good answers, and physically oriented Ice Scales with enough bulk to sponge +2 attacks can retaliate hard, taking advantage of Flutter's low defense and chip from Flame Orb. The set also has less raw power compared to Specs, making some RegenVest users good sponges, which can always pivot into revenge-killers or Imposter.

Choice Specs

Generally Counters: (Ice Scales) |
Sometimes Counters: (RegenVest)
Soft Checks: (RegenVest) | (Sand Stream) (Ice Scales)
Offensive Checks: (Pixilate) (Choice Scarf) |

Choice Specs, in comparison, boasts more immediate power and coverage, allowing Flutter to hit many key thresholds. The tradeoff is worse longevity and inability to switch moves. That being said, one wrong predict can leave a check severely weakened. Select RegenVest users as usual act as excellent sponges due to the threat of Moongeist Beam, though a Normal teammate is highly recommended. Ability Shield is incredibly niche and not listed but does work against Moongeist Beam.

Tidy Up

Generally Counters: (Cloak Imposter) (Fur Coat) | (Fur Coat)
Sometimes Counters: (Fur Coat)
Soft Checks: (Fur Coat)
Offensive Checks:

Arceus-Ground is the primary Tidy Up Arceus forme, though other formes like Fairy can also utilize a similar set. The most dangerous aspect of this set is Spirit Shackle trapping something that cannot handle it. Otherwise, Arceus's modest offensive power along with the prevalence of Strength Sap mean its not the most challenging to handle it. In particular, due to lack of anti Special setup, Take Heart Arceus formes can actually setup on this. It is also susceptible to status.

Mixed Offensive

Generally Counters: (Primordial Sea)
Sometimes Counters: (Fur Coat) (Primordial Sea) (Ice Scales)
Soft Checks: (Imposter) (Ice Scales) (Fur Coat) (SpD) |
Offensive Checks: (Pixilate) |

The most common set is Sheer Force, but alternate mixed offensive sets also exist, notably Adaptability which has significantly more immediate power. Theoretically very challenging to handle due to flexibility of switching moves and impressive coverage + power, but despite lack of Choice-lock it still needs to make correct predictions to hit 2HKOs. It is also susceptible to all forms of status, Knock Off, chip damage, as well as being at an awkward speed tier.

Setup

Generally Counters: (Fur Coat) | (Fur Coat)
Sometimes Counters: (Fur Coat) | (Fur Coat)
Soft Checks: (Speed tie Imposter) (RegenVest) (Fur Coat)
Offensive Checks: (Only at +1) (Pixilate) | (Only at +1)

Setup Mega Garchomp mostly runs Tidy Up/Shift Gear, STABs, and Jungle Healing, but can also forgo recovery for coverage like Electro Drift. It has enough power after one boost to basically force high bulk Fur Coats as immediately answers, and it can still 2HKO a good amount of them. It is worth noting that MegaChomp misses some crucial benchmarks without Life Orb, and also that both of its commonly run STABs render it more vulnerable to retaliation. Strength Sap is generally a decent stop to it, though it does have the same PP as the setup moves. It is also worth noting that the ability + item are reasonably flexible which can be teched around certain counterplay.

Choice Band

Generally Counters: (Fur Coat) | (Fur Coat)
Sometimes Counters:
Soft Checks: (Fur Coat) | (Fur Coat)
Offensive Checks: |

Choice Band boasts more initial power and coverage but has the weakness of being slow and prediction reliant due to both STABs having immunities. Slower Fur Coats however risk getting 2HKOed or hit by coverage. Due to no speed boosts there are significantly more options for offensive checking (almost every offensive Pokemon works).

Magic Guard

Generally Counters: (Ice Scales)
Sometimes Counters: (Ice Scales) | (Ice Scales)
Soft Checks: (Ice Scales) (RegenVest)
Offensive Checks: |

Eternatus but with Thunder Cage over Poison STAB. Chip from Cage can be annoying against various walls but lack of the Poison STAB options makes select walls difficult to bypass. Keeping Miraidon chipped is highly useful as it neuters Dragon Energy power.

Offensive

Generally Counters: (Fur Coat)
Sometimes Counters: (Ice Scales) (Fur Coat) | (Fur Coat)
Soft Checks: (Regenerator) (Fur Coat)
Offensive Checks: |

Mega Lucario has the option to go Life Orb but the sets are basically identical. STAB Sunsteel Strike is unique and allows it to deal moderate damage to a lot of conventional Fur Coats, which can be combined with Sapblock effectively. It is however slow while not boasting as much power as Mega Garchomp, making faster walls annoying.

Magic Guard

Generally Counters: (Magic Guard/Unaware) (Fur Coat) (Primordial Sea)
Sometimes Counters: (Primordial Sea)
Soft Checks: (Imposter) (Fur Coat)
Offensive Checks: (Choice Band) |

V-create gives this set surprising output against neutral targets. The use of Swords Dance also means several Strength Sap users will lose considering Ho-Oh's natural bulk, though at the cost of being susceptible to revenge-killing. This set also needs to make some accurate predicts around Strength Sap against some walls to win the matchup. Some offensive threats have enough bulk to tank and KO back. Removing Life Orb makes Ho-Oh miss out on many benchmarks.

Choice Band

Generally Counters: (Fur Coat) (Regenerator) | (Fur Coat)
Sometimes Counters:
Soft Checks: (RegenVest)
Offensive Checks: (Pixilate: |

Koraidon lacks a lot of the power that Garchomp has, but its Speed tier lets it run Teravolt and 2HKO fast walls like Arceus formes. Alongside coverage it can be difficult to check defensively outside of making accurate predicts. However, in practice Koraidon's lacking power means it will struggle for opportunities to force switches. Full health +Def Arceus also is very unlikely to be 2HKOed.

No Retreat

Generally Counters: (Ice Scales) |
Sometimes Counters: (Plate Imposter) (RegenVest) |
Soft Checks: (Ice Scales)
Offensive Checks:

No Retreat Lunala's main threat is usually less about it being a problem but more about it using Final Gambit to pave the way for its teammates such as No Retreat Arceus-Ghost. As such it is imperative to play around the possibility, and having back up checks is highly helpful (such as Yveltal + Scales). Unlike Ghostceus, Lunala's moveset is generally more rigid, making answers consistent, but it does boast a very strong Stored Power. Lunala lacks the Knock Off resistance that Arceus-Ghost has, and ceases to function when Knocked due to a reasonably healthy Imposter walling, so RegenVest Steels which can all generally take a hit can counter. Topsy-Turvy also immediately forces Lunala out. Offensive checks are non existent outside of AshGren who can take a boosted hit.

Choice Band

Generally Counters: (Fur Coat)
Sometimes Counters: (Fur Coat) | (Fur Coat)
Soft Checks: (Fur Coat) |
Offensive Checks: |

Mega Blaziken, similar to Ho-Oh, relies on V-create to dish out large amounts of damage. Tinted Lens is one of the more common abilities on Blaziken, making Fur Coat more important as natural resists get blown apart. Because of V-create's Speed drops, many walls have the possibility of outspeeding it after one and Strength Sap if Sapblocking isn't an issue (it will be). Other damage amplifying abilities output more on neutral targets making some of those shakier. Note that while this is for Choice Band, Choice Scarf is a rare set but viable and is advised to scout out damage.

Setup

Generally Counters: (Ice Scales) (RegenVest)
Sometimes Counters: (Ice Scales)
Soft Checks: (RegenVest) (Ice Scales) |
Offensive Checks: (Pixilate) |

Palkia-Origin unique Water STAB and STAB coverage allows it to run a more unique set among special attackers. Speed Boost is better and more common and prevents revenge-killing, but Magic Guard has the potential to farm slower teams. Its main weakness is a dependency on Dragon Energy but being weak to Mortal and Salt without Magic Guard, and MG variants are prone to being dealt with by AV pivot -> RK by almost every faster mon.

Choice Band

Generally Counters: (Fur Coat) | (Fur Coat)
Sometimes Counters: (Primordial Sea)
Soft Checks: (Fur Coat) (Primordial Sea) |
Offensive Checks: |

Kyurem-B has the same damage output as Band Garchomp, Glacial Lance with no immunities is spammable which is its main appeal. The tradeoff is a crippling weakness to Rocks, making maintaining rocks a good counterplay. The coverage choice also is slightly different which changes up some counterplay. Note that similar to Garchomp several "counters" rely on getting reliable Strength Saps.

Pixilate

Generally Counters: (Ice Scales) (Primordial Sea)
Sometimes Counters: (Ice Scales) (Primordial Sea)
Soft Checks: (Imposter) (Ice Scales) (RegenVest)
Offensive Checks: (Choice Scarf) |

Mega Gardevoir has one of the most spammable special moves that with its neutral coverage allows it to wear down many Ice Scales Pokemon rapidly. If given enough opportunities it will be able to break down teams, but its Speed and lacking physical bulk are both exploitable. Psystrike is usually run which can punish RegenVests hard but it is still favourable to have it be locked into not Boomburst. Ice Scales Strength Sap users that avoid being Sapblocked are the best answers.

Normalize

Generally Counters: (Magic Bounce in general) (Plate Imposter) (Revelation Dance)
Sometimes Counters: (Revelation Dance) (Judgment)
Soft Checks: (Taunt) (Prankster Glare) (Parting Shot)
Offensive Checks: (Pixilate) (Choice Scarf) |

Normalize is pretty linear in terms of checks. Magic Bounce completely counters it and denies any other commonly used moves like Spikes and Taunt. Most Judgment/Revelation Dance users are capable of dealing good damage back, though non-AV are at risk of being outdamaged if Taunted. Flutter Mane also can run Pixie Plate to pressure Dark-types. Certain status moves like Glare are not neutralized by Normalize but risk running into the common Taunt. Taunt also can act as a soft check and force 50/50s against opposing Taunt. Strong priority and faster Pokemon are also effective checks as Normalize does not run speed boosting and Flutter Mane lacks Def. Arceus-Ghost deserves a special mention as it lacks Speed but instead is significantly more resilient to attacks, including Knock Off.

 

[The Hisui Region]

Blissey gets bonked by beak blast. I don't play much, but haven't seen meloetta ever since MMY got banned. And as rightcliker said, please don't use normal arceus.

I don't know what I said that makes you think I don't understand wandering spirit. What I'm saying is teleport, chilly reception and even volt switch will bypass WS. Encoring a non pivot move will work regardless of the form of pivot your enemy packs.

Didn't save the game vs the top 10 player (I think I was using a variation of the posted Maudino). Here's one against someone who's ranked 13 at the time of this posting . Hope I'm not spoiling a secret team.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9balancedhackmons-2130583849?p2

PS: that steelix switch out on turn 46 felt sooo good.

wow frick you man i wouldve won but the sun was in my eyes and also my dog was eating my homework
you should blame LinkCode he made the team

 

[A6A]

I need a Balanced team with Light Ball ImposterChu (Pikachu with Imposter as its ability)

 

[Tea Guzzler]

I need a Balanced team with Light Ball ImposterChu (Pikachu with Imposter as its ability)

you're probably going to struggle to find one just on the basis of pikachu not being very good. pika only really works on hard paraspam teams where you can essentially remove speed ties as a factor (and so safely use the doubled offenses), but that's made harder by both take heart and conflicts with mortal spin (also disregarding the fact that balance pika teams have never really existed). even disregarding that, there's just not a lot that you can reliably copy and get away with; take heart arc virtually always has a defensive ability and sometimes a plate (plus status cleansing), flutter can't be parad, gren can't be prank glared, etc.. if you do end up getting a team then lots of glare and pivots are recommended in addition to very reliable checks to take heart arceus and flare boost flutter.

 

[A6A]

you're probably going to struggle to find one just on the basis of pikachu not being very good. pika only really works on hard paraspam teams where you can essentially remove speed ties as a factor (and so safely use the doubled offenses), but that's made harder by both take heart and conflicts with mortal spin (also disregarding the fact that balance pika teams have never really existed). even disregarding that, there's just not a lot that you can reliably copy and get away with; take heart arc virtually always has a defensive ability and sometimes a plate (plus status cleansing), flutter can't be parad, gren can't be prank glared, etc.. if you do end up getting a team then lots of glare and pivots are recommended in addition to very reliable checks to take heart arceus and flare boost flutter.

Well, I do believe that both Chansey and Blissey are both good Imposter but why is there mainly three Imposter users (Chansey, Blissey --> good Imposter users because of health and Pikachu --> good offensive Imposter due to Light Ball)

I saw a team (Gen 7 Balanced Hackmons?) on a smogon page that included Light Ball ImposterChu (Imposter Pikachu) but i am not to sure if Gen 7 BH exists on Pokémon Showdown

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-cult-of-pikachu-a-balanced-hackmons-team.3640625/ https://pokepast.es/6a6e267871f17cf6

edit: merged into 1 post

 

[Tea Guzzler]

Well, I do believe that both Chansey and Blissey are both good Imposter but why is there mainly three Imposter users (Chansey, Blissey --> good Imposter users because of health and Pikachu --> good offensive Imposter due to Light Ball)

Chansey and Blissey are good because their immense bulk allows them to scout, check offense, steal utility, potentially reverse sweep, and Imposter-proof all in the one slot. Pikachu takes those all but reverse sweeping and throws them in the bin; it's basically useless outside of sweeping, which isn't a particularly good thing when Gen 9 makes setting up a reverse imp sweep as hard as it is. This still doesn't consider the fact that Pikachu's sweep isn't even guaranteed if you set it up; hard improofs like complete immunity, Judgment, or even just something like a Fur Coat user dodging a 2HKO from the majority of Light Ball physical attackers will ensure Pikachu can do very little with its time.

 

[A6A]

Chansey and Blissey are good because their immense bulk allows them to scout, check offense, steal utility, potentially reverse sweep, and Imposter-proof all in the one slot. Pikachu takes those all but reverse sweeping and throws them in the bin; it's basically useless outside of sweeping, which isn't a particularly good thing when Gen 9 makes setting up a reverse imp sweep as hard as it is. This still doesn't consider the fact that Pikachu's sweep isn't even guaranteed if you set it up; hard improofs like complete immunity, Judgment, or even just something like a Fur Coat user dodging a 2HKO from the majority of Light Ball physical attackers will ensure Pikachu can do very little with its time.

I do agree with this statement cause Pikachu has not much as defense (HP) as Blissey and Chansey
Pikachu would rather be a WG user ig since it weakness is ground?

 

[Akira 153]

I need a Balanced team with Light Ball ImposterChu (Pikachu with Imposter as its ability)

https://pokepast.es/d02ec82de11090b6
as requested
I'm actually kinda happy with managing to get two non-horrifically passive sets to be improofed by a pikachu

 

[Fish Gaming]

I do agree with this statement cause Pikachu has not much as defense (HP) as Blissey and Chansey
Pikachu would rather be a WG user ig since it weakness is ground?

Wonder Guard is banned.

Also consider that if you're switching into an impostor pokemon that's already became one of your mons.
Facing them with a chansey / blissey would be much better than facing them with just a pikachu

 

[LemonLime78]

Got a fun wincon/breaker set to share with y'all.

Comedy

Hoopa-Unbound @ Shed Shell
Ability: Simple
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- No Retreat
- Power Trip
- Stored Power
- Aura Sphere / Drain Punch / Strength Sap / Whatever the hell

The idea here is very simple (pun... Actually I'm not sure if it was intended or not). Get in, preferably on a special attacker, and use some classic bh bulk to set up a no retreat to sweep with immense mixed attacking stats. Prankster haze and heart swap are barely a hindrance because you can just come right back in later. Nature can be +Atk, +spA, or +Spe, but you'll probably always want to run -spD. Hoopa needs all the defense it can get. That's it. Immense sweeping potential and wall breaking power, and utter predictability on the team preview.

 

[IMPERIUM OF MAN]

Threat Assessment - DLC2 V1 (Pre-OMPL)
VR updated so time for this update, also 1k post cool​

This is basically a congregation of the meta mons, the sets they run, and how to check/counter them, except this time I skipped some of the more defensive mons because I am lazy (also with OMPL pretty likely to have major meta shifts). List is in order of viability rankings (as of May 15), Pokemon that can check/counter regardless of their own set are placed at the end to avoid confusion. More niche checks are separated by a |. Here are the BH analyses and the setpedia if you don't know the sets.
This also serves as an option for players to consider some Pokemon lower on the viability rankings as options on teams instead of recycling defensive cores. This is likely not comprehensive and there's a guaranteed chance that I've missed something so let me know on Discord if I need to change anything. (Yes this is pre-OMPL I had this written up before w1 games).

Legend

Do note that in BH generally "checks and counters" are used less traditionally compared to most other metas. In normal discussions and such "checks" typically refer to Pokemon that can answer the typical sets or most moves on a Choiced set (basically act as a generally accepted defensive answer, see Sometimes Counters and below) while "counters" typically refer to Pokemon that can answer practically every viable set and/or go beyond by limiting even other progress making attempts (e.g. blocking hazards, Spins, Sap recovery) (see Generally Counters).

Generally Counters: Counters most viable variants of the set
Sometimes Counters: Counters some variants of the set, typically dependent on coverage
Soft Checks: Generally shaky as an answer and is not reliable as the only answer (such as requiring to be near full health to avoid range or taking huge damage from a coverage), or a defensive pivot that can take hits and bring in teammates safely
Offensive Checks: Offensive threats that win the 1v1, typically by either outspeeding or surviving any hit and OHKOing back. Generally relies on pivots from "Soft Checks"

It is important to realize that the answers vary depending on the sets threats use and so identifying the set is highly important. Imposter or bulky Regen scouting are obvious choices but it is also possible to guess the set through looking at the team. For offensive Pokemon looking at potential opposing Improofs and for defensive Pokemon look at their partners and basic threat check to infer the ability (also calc, calcing can basically immediately give away offensive ability + item or defensive FurScales).
Notes: (SpD) refers to either RegenVest or Ice Scales. Normalize Pokemon can offensively check anything that cannot touch them are are slower so I'll exclude them.

Sniper

Generally Counters: (Fur Coat) | (Fur Coat)
Sometimes Counters: (Fur Coat)
Soft Checks: (Imposter) (Fur Coat) | (Fur Coat)
Offensive Checks: (Pixilate) |

Choice Band Sniper AshGren has one of the highest raw damage outputs in the meta, combined with good neutral coverage STABs and coverage allows it to basically 3HKO even the bulkiest defensive answers. Considering that it outspeeds almost all of them as well it forces immediate recovery, which demands that defensive answers are not easily Sapblocked. Dark resists are valuable, especially in tandem with Rocky Helmet to harshly punish Surging Strikes. The few defensive answers that outspeed AshGren are more resilient as they can play less conservatively. It should be noted that AshGren frequently runs Frost Breath, which while it rarely wants to click will harshly punish several otherwise solid switch-ins.

Special Setup

Generally Counters: (Ice Scales) (Fur Coat) | (FurScales)
Sometimes Counters: (Plate Imposter) (Ice Scales) (Unaware)
Soft Checks: (RegenVest)
Offensive Checks: |

Ghostceus primarily sets up through Take Heart or Nasty Plot, though Torch Song is seen occassionally. With typing and potential defense boosts granted by Fur Coat and Take Heart it can be challenging to threaten Ghostceus. Ghostceus is also unique in able to run Recover and also bypass Blissey with Secret Sword. Without Magic Guard Ghostceus is annoyed by Salt Cure, and if it also lacks Take Heart then Mortal Spin becomes threatening. Topsy-Turvy users can shut down reasonably well, especially when combined with slow pivoting and a revenge-killer. It should be noted that while rare, Speed Boost and Rapid Spin can completely reverse the matchup on offensive checks. Different Ice Scales Pokemon can also engage in setup wars and usually come on top thanks to Scales, but it should be noted that Tidy Up sets lose against Strength Sap variants. Plate Imposter is decent but can easily be denied healing by opposing Imposter or get Knocked.

No Retreat

Generally Counters: (Plate Imposter) (Ice Scales) (Fur Coat) (Prankster)
Sometimes Counters: (Ice Scales) (Unaware)
Soft Checks: (Imposter) (RegenVest)
Offensive Checks:

Dealing with No Retreat Ghostceus typically involves neutralizing its stat boosts. Topsy-Turvy completely shuts it down while Strength Sap practically guarantees at least one full heal and neutralizes the Attack. Covert Cloak on checks provide a lot of safety due to side effects from coverage. Also due to one-time setup various Take Heart users can setup, as well as Tidy Up sets due to lack of Strength Sap. Plate Imposter is significantly better here and Eviolite Imposter also can PP stall some Judgments in a pinch. Offensive checking is nearly impossible due to stat boosts, though despite not being listed a full health AshGren lives against Poison-move variants and OHKOs back with Wicked Blow.

Choice Specs

Generally Counters: (Ice Scales) (RegenVest)
Sometimes Counters: (Ice Scales) (RegenVest) (Primordial Sea) |
Soft Checks: (Imposter) (RegenVest) (Ice Scales) | (RegenVest)
Offensive Checks: (Pixilate) (Choice Scarf) |

Mega Alakazam's raw power and coverage options make it challenging it to answer it consistently, often requiring abusing the choice lock. Moongeist Beam boasts enough power to 2HKO Ice Scales users after the slightest chip, while most resists to it are threatened by STAB or coverage. Psycho Boost also deals enough to Ice Scales users to force recovery, meaning dealing with Sapblocks are necessary. RegenVests that are not susceptible to massive damage are excellent midgrounds to scout choice lock. Imposter can check if needed due to Zam's high SpD and BoR cancelling out. Due to its speed there are limited offensive checks. Should be noted that MegaZam does have a degree of 4MSS so there is a small possibility where its missing one of Moongeist/Fire/Fleur coverage, allowing more stuff to answer it.

Setup

Generally Counters: (RegenVest) (Primordial Sea) | (Primordial Sea)
Sometimes Counters: (Imposter) (RegenVest) (Ice Scales)
Soft Checks: (Ice Scales) (RegenVest)
Offensive Checks: |

Eternatus pretty much always runs Dragon Energy, a Poison move, and Torch Song. Despite having a fixed moveset, it can be deceptively difficult to answer especially with the varied abilities. Magic Guard provides the most power, immunity to chip, and can bypass Blissey with Shell Side Arm. Teravolt is rarer currently but punishes Ice Scales. Unaware generally takes a more defensive role but can flip the matchup against Take Heart users. RegenVests are generally a great check due to reliable SpD boosts and threatening with Knock or pivoting, but needs to be wary of status. Offensive checks can work well with Etern's somewhat awkward Speed and lack of boosting.

Take Heart

Generally Counters: (Ice Scales)
Sometimes Counters: (Unaware) (Ice Scales - typing dependent) |
Soft Checks: (Salt Cure)
Offensive Checks: (Typically need chip)

I'm going to be extremely lazy here and lump these together. Take Heart Arceus is generally all very similar in set, running something along STAB + Thunder Cage + Sap + Take Heart. There may be small deviations for formes like Electric and Water. These sets need to attempt to selfproof which makes them susceptible to Sapblock. Salt Cure is one of the more splashable countermeasures, as it allows a healthy Imposter to 1v1, and most Salt users are RegenVest which retains momentum. Topsy-Turvy is another option that can force out, though most users can be susceptible to TCage chip. Engaging in Take Heart wars can be an option, especially with advantageous typing and/or Scales vs FC. Slow pivoting and faster nuclear wallbreakers can revenge-kill at varying health levels depending on boosts ability and typing, physical have an advantage.

Flare Boost

Generally Counters: (Ice Scales) (RegenVest) | (Sand Stream)
Sometimes Counters: (Ice Scales) (RegenVest)
Soft Checks: (Imposter) (Ice Scales) (RegenVest)
Offensive Checks: (Pixilate) (Choice Scarf) |

Flare Boost has a lot of unique traits for a special wallbreaker. It is not choice locked, is resilient to Knock Off, has a good matchup into Blissey, and still has the coveted STAB Moongeist Beam. The latter makes it very difficult for most Ice Scales users to handle. Ice Scales Normal-types serve as very good answers, and physically oriented Ice Scales with enough bulk to sponge +2 attacks can retaliate hard, taking advantage of Flutter's low defense and chip from Flame Orb. The set also has less raw power compared to Specs, making some RegenVest users good sponges, which can always pivot into revenge-killers or Imposter.

Choice Specs

Generally Counters: (Ice Scales) |
Sometimes Counters: (RegenVest)
Soft Checks: (RegenVest) | (Sand Stream) (Ice Scales)
Offensive Checks: (Pixilate) (Choice Scarf) |

Choice Specs, in comparison, boasts more immediate power and coverage, allowing Flutter to hit many key thresholds. The tradeoff is worse longevity and inability to switch moves. That being said, one wrong predict can leave a check severely weakened. Select RegenVest users as usual act as excellent sponges due to the threat of Moongeist Beam, though a Normal teammate is highly recommended. Ability Shield is incredibly niche and not listed but does work against Moongeist Beam.

Tidy Up

Generally Counters: (Cloak Imposter) (Fur Coat) | (Fur Coat)
Sometimes Counters: (Fur Coat)
Soft Checks: (Fur Coat)
Offensive Checks:

Arceus-Ground is the primary Tidy Up Arceus forme, though other formes like Fairy can also utilize a similar set. The most dangerous aspect of this set is Spirit Shackle trapping something that cannot handle it. Otherwise, Arceus's modest offensive power along with the prevalence of Strength Sap mean its not the most challenging to handle it. In particular, due to lack of anti Special setup, Take Heart Arceus formes can actually setup on this. It is also susceptible to status.

Mixed Offensive

Generally Counters: (Primordial Sea)
Sometimes Counters: (Fur Coat) (Primordial Sea) (Ice Scales)
Soft Checks: (Imposter) (Ice Scales) (Fur Coat) (SpD) |
Offensive Checks: (Pixilate) |

The most common set is Sheer Force, but alternate mixed offensive sets also exist, notably Adaptability which has significantly more immediate power. Theoretically very challenging to handle due to flexibility of switching moves and impressive coverage + power, but despite lack of Choice-lock it still needs to make correct predictions to hit 2HKOs. It is also susceptible to all forms of status, Knock Off, chip damage, as well as being at an awkward speed tier.

Setup

Generally Counters: (Fur Coat) | (Fur Coat)
Sometimes Counters: (Fur Coat) | (Fur Coat)
Soft Checks: (Speed tie Imposter) (RegenVest) (Fur Coat)
Offensive Checks: (Only at +1) (Pixilate) | (Only at +1)

Setup Mega Garchomp mostly runs Tidy Up/Shift Gear, STABs, and Jungle Healing, but can also forgo recovery for coverage like Electro Drift. It has enough power after one boost to basically force high bulk Fur Coats as immediately answers, and it can still 2HKO a good amount of them. It is worth noting that MegaChomp misses some crucial benchmarks without Life Orb, and also that both of its commonly run STABs render it more vulnerable to retaliation. Strength Sap is generally a decent stop to it, though it does have the same PP as the setup moves. It is also worth noting that the ability + item are reasonably flexible which can be teched around certain counterplay.

Choice Band

Generally Counters: (Fur Coat) | (Fur Coat)
Sometimes Counters:
Soft Checks: (Fur Coat) | (Fur Coat)
Offensive Checks: |

Choice Band boasts more initial power and coverage but has the weakness of being slow and prediction reliant due to both STABs having immunities. Slower Fur Coats however risk getting 2HKOed or hit by coverage. Due to no speed boosts there are significantly more options for offensive checking (almost every offensive Pokemon works).

Magic Guard

Generally Counters: (Ice Scales)
Sometimes Counters: (Ice Scales) | (Ice Scales)
Soft Checks: (Ice Scales) (RegenVest)
Offensive Checks: |

Eternatus but with Thunder Cage over Poison STAB. Chip from Cage can be annoying against various walls but lack of the Poison STAB options makes select walls difficult to bypass. Keeping Miraidon chipped is highly useful as it neuters Dragon Energy power.

Offensive

Generally Counters: (Fur Coat)
Sometimes Counters: (Ice Scales) (Fur Coat) | (Fur Coat)
Soft Checks: (Regenerator) (Fur Coat)
Offensive Checks: |

Mega Lucario has the option to go Life Orb but the sets are basically identical. STAB Sunsteel Strike is unique and allows it to deal moderate damage to a lot of conventional Fur Coats, which can be combined with Sapblock effectively. It is however slow while not boasting as much power as Mega Garchomp, making faster walls annoying.

Magic Guard

Generally Counters: (Magic Guard/Unaware) (Fur Coat) (Primordial Sea)
Sometimes Counters: (Primordial Sea)
Soft Checks: (Imposter) (Fur Coat)
Offensive Checks: (Choice Band) |

V-create gives this set surprising output against neutral targets. The use of Swords Dance also means several Strength Sap users will lose considering Ho-Oh's natural bulk, though at the cost of being susceptible to revenge-killing. This set also needs to make some accurate predicts around Strength Sap against some walls to win the matchup. Some offensive threats have enough bulk to tank and KO back. Removing Life Orb makes Ho-Oh miss out on many benchmarks.

Choice Band

Generally Counters: (Fur Coat) (Regenerator) | (Fur Coat)
Sometimes Counters:
Soft Checks: (RegenVest)
Offensive Checks: (Pixilate: |

Koraidon lacks a lot of the power that Garchomp has, but its Speed tier lets it run Teravolt and 2HKO fast walls like Arceus formes. Alongside coverage it can be difficult to check defensively outside of making accurate predicts. However, in practice Koraidon's lacking power means it will struggle for opportunities to force switches. Full health +Def Arceus also is very unlikely to be 2HKOed.

No Retreat

Generally Counters: (Ice Scales) |
Sometimes Counters: (Plate Imposter) (RegenVest) |
Soft Checks: (Ice Scales)
Offensive Checks:

No Retreat Lunala's main threat is usually less about it being a problem but more about it using Final Gambit to pave the way for its teammates such as No Retreat Arceus-Ghost. As such it is imperative to play around the possibility, and having back up checks is highly helpful (such as Yveltal + Scales). Unlike Ghostceus, Lunala's moveset is generally more rigid, making answers consistent, but it does boast a very strong Stored Power. Lunala lacks the Knock Off resistance that Arceus-Ghost has, and ceases to function when Knocked due to a reasonably healthy Imposter walling, so RegenVest Steels which can all generally take a hit can counter. Topsy-Turvy also immediately forces Lunala out. Offensive checks are non existent outside of AshGren who can take a boosted hit.

Choice Band

Generally Counters: (Fur Coat)
Sometimes Counters: (Fur Coat) | (Fur Coat)
Soft Checks: (Fur Coat) |
Offensive Checks: |

Mega Blaziken, similar to Ho-Oh, relies on V-create to dish out large amounts of damage. Tinted Lens is one of the more common abilities on Blaziken, making Fur Coat more important as natural resists get blown apart. Because of V-create's Speed drops, many walls have the possibility of outspeeding it after one and Strength Sap if Sapblocking isn't an issue (it will be). Other damage amplifying abilities output more on neutral targets making some of those shakier. Note that while this is for Choice Band, Choice Scarf is a rare set but viable and is advised to scout out damage.

Setup

Generally Counters: (Ice Scales) (RegenVest)
Sometimes Counters: (Ice Scales)
Soft Checks: (RegenVest) (Ice Scales) |
Offensive Checks: (Pixilate) |

Palkia-Origin unique Water STAB and STAB coverage allows it to run a more unique set among special attackers. Speed Boost is better and more common and prevents revenge-killing, but Magic Guard has the potential to farm slower teams. Its main weakness is a dependency on Dragon Energy but being weak to Mortal and Salt without Magic Guard, and MG variants are prone to being dealt with by AV pivot -> RK by almost every faster mon.

Choice Band

Generally Counters: (Fur Coat) | (Fur Coat)
Sometimes Counters: (Primordial Sea)
Soft Checks: (Fur Coat) (Primordial Sea) |
Offensive Checks: |

Kyurem-B has the same damage output as Band Garchomp, Glacial Lance with no immunities is spammable which is its main appeal. The tradeoff is a crippling weakness to Rocks, making maintaining rocks a good counterplay. The coverage choice also is slightly different which changes up some counterplay. Note that similar to Garchomp several "counters" rely on getting reliable Strength Saps.

Pixilate

Generally Counters: (Ice Scales) (Primordial Sea)
Sometimes Counters: (Ice Scales) (Primordial Sea)
Soft Checks: (Imposter) (Ice Scales) (RegenVest)
Offensive Checks: (Choice Scarf) |

Mega Gardevoir has one of the most spammable special moves that with its neutral coverage allows it to wear down many Ice Scales Pokemon rapidly. If given enough opportunities it will be able to break down teams, but its Speed and lacking physical bulk are both exploitable. Psystrike is usually run which can punish RegenVests hard but it is still favourable to have it be locked into not Boomburst. Ice Scales Strength Sap users that avoid being Sapblocked are the best answers.

Normalize

Generally Counters: (Magic Bounce in general) (Plate Imposter) (Revelation Dance)
Sometimes Counters: (Revelation Dance) (Judgment)
Soft Checks: (Taunt) (Prankster Glare) (Parting Shot)
Offensive Checks: (Pixilate) (Choice Scarf) |

Normalize is pretty linear in terms of checks. Magic Bounce completely counters it and denies any other commonly used moves like Spikes and Taunt. Most Judgment/Revelation Dance users are capable of dealing good damage back, though non-AV are at risk of being outdamaged if Taunted. Flutter Mane also can run Pixie Plate to pressure Dark-types. Certain status moves like Glare are not neutralized by Normalize but risk running into the common Taunt. Taunt also can act as a soft check and force 50/50s against opposing Taunt. Strong priority and faster Pokemon are also effective checks as Normalize does not run speed boosting and Flutter Mane lacks Def. Arceus-Ghost deserves a special mention as it lacks Speed but instead is significantly more resilient to attacks, including Knock Off.

It truly saddens me to see how low the bar has gotten with offensive mons

 

[cityscapes]

It truly saddens me to see how low the bar has gotten with offensive mons

Did you know that there's a whole bunch of secretly strong offensive mons that are wickedly difficult to switch into? Not only can they deal truly incredible amounts of damage in a single turn with dynamically stacking boosting mechanisms, but they can't even be stalled out despite running 4 attacks! I'll show an example of such a set here--with something like this, progress is rarely more than a click away!


Kyogre-Primal (F) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stone Axe / Salt Cure
- Mortal Spin
- Revelation Dance / Knock Off
- Flip Turn / U-turn

It doesn't matter if the opponent has a so-called "wall" like Dialga-Origin or Giratina. Mortal Spin + Salt Cure will wear them down super fast just the same!

Here's another example of a really strong breaker in the metagame:


Blood Rusher (Aegislash) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Ruination
- Strength Sap
- Teleport

There are few things more satisfying than seeing your opponent switch to a defensive Pokemon that they think can handle Aegislash's meager offensive stats, only for their jaw to drop as they take an entire 50% from Ruination. They can go ahead and try to fight back with 8 PP Recover, but if you factor in burn from Will-O-Wisp, they'll be on the back foot for the entire game!

Overall I've had a ton of fun busting open teams with these wallbreakers. There is some defensive counterplay that exists out there, but you can typically cover that with your other five mons. Have fun building powerful and dynamic teams!

 

[rightclicker]

It truly saddens me to see how low the bar has gotten with offensive mons

hey did you know when the “good offensive mons” like mega diancie kartana deoxys-a and the mega mewtwos were in the tier there were like 0 diversity because why use other wallbreakers when these guys do the same but better

either you go back to that hell or you stick with us now with actually diversity between teams and not just poisonceus miraidon yveltal/hooh imposter and 2 of previously mentioned wallbreakers on every single team