BH Balanced Hackmons

MAMP said:
Max Flare having 100 BP actually is accurate to cart, I assume it's a typo on Game Freak's part. That said, the move is still almost completely outclassed by other physical Fire moves which offer more power, more utility, or both.

On the council: I don't really want to join in the dogpile, but I will say that I've been a bit frustrated about the council's inactivity and lack of transparency. I agree with SL42 about the kokoloko tiering method: I think it's ideal for a tier like BH and is the best way to get the metagame to a balanced state as quickly as possible.

Some thoughts on some mons in the current meta:
View attachment 217470
The hype has died down, and Dragapult has dropped off almost completely. The Normalise set is incomparable to last gen's NormGar: its serious lack of power and the fact that Dynamaxed Pokemon are unaffected by Entrainment renders it incapable of posing a serious threat to most teams. I've experimented with non-Normalise sets like Shell Smash Multi-Attack and Choice Band Intrepid Sword, but they're mediocre overall.

View attachment 217462
At this point Melmetal has cemented itself as one of the most important Pokemon in the tier. Its best sets are Fur Coat, Flash Fire/Primordial Sea, Prankster, Magic Bounce, and Ice Scales, and it has a number of more niche sets beyond this. Melmetal's prevalence really hinders the viability of physical attackers that struggle to break it, like Kyurem-B, Dragapult, Zacian, Zacian-C, Solgaleo, Necrozma-DM, and Snorlax. A lot of Pokemon run V-Create basically just for Melm, and I've seen Kyu-B running Blue Flare to get past the Fur Coat set. All of its sets are extremely flexible and easily fit onto a range of teams, to the extent that running multiples is completely valid.

View attachment 217467
Melm's popularity is partially responsible for the huge uptick in Darmanitan-GZ usage lately, as physical attackers that can force out Melm are very useful and often hard to come by. In particular, the Mold Breaker Choice Band set is obnoxiously difficult to switch into while also having an excellent speed tier, and I've started running Primordial Sea rather than Flash Fire on Steel-types to deal with it. Really important to keep up hazards against this thing. Refrigerate sets have fallen off I've found, as priority is pretty bad against Dynamax and it can't really threaten to OHKO stuff the same way Choice Band sets can. Scarf sets have been popping up as well, and I think they're quite good too: V-Create is so stupidly powerful that the extra power from Choice Band is often unnecessary and it checks Zacian-C very effectively.

View attachment 217464@View attachment 217468
PH Zamazenta is really well-positioned at the moment I feel. It can run offensive utility sets like MMX did last gen, but that set is a little awkward now mainly because Low Kick just isn't very good anymore. Not only does it not work on Dynamaxed Pokemon, but the powering down of the tier has meant that there are a lot of Pokemon running around that are quite light and don't take much damage from Low Kick, so it's a bit unreliable. The best option is Close Combat, but due to that move's low PP and defense drops it's not that well suited for sets that want to stick around for a long time. However, I'm a big fan of this set with Shift Gear:

Zamazenta @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shift Gear
- Close Combat
- Knock Off / Earthquake / Bolt Beak / Sunsteel Strike
- Will-O-Wisp / Spore

This can force a ton of switches to get set up, and if your coverage lines up well against your opponent's team it can be challenging to deal with long-term. I'm finding that Poison Heal is not very well-prepared for at the moment as stuff like Entrainment has fallen out of favour.

View attachment 217469
Kyurem-B has also dropped off quite hard. It has a lot of trouble getting past Melmetal, who I think is the most common Pokemon in the tier, and Dynamaxing makes it a lot less effective as a revenge killer. Additionally, Darm gives it a ton of competition for most of its sets. I've found Kyu-B to be really hard to justify running. I think its best set atm is a utility Refrigerate set with Heavy-Duty Boots and Rapid Spin.

View attachment 217463
Zacian is yet to really find its place I think. Offensively, it lacks power because its STAB options are weak and it usually can't get past Melmetal. Defensively, its resistances aren't particularly relevant and its bulk isn't quite good enough to switch into much. I've tried out a number of Zacian sets and even when they look good on paper I find that they don't really do much in practice. Maybe there's a really good Zacian set out there just waiting to be discovered, but I wouldn't bet on it. The metagame is very unkind to it. If only there was a good physical Fairy move...

View attachment 217460
Gourgeist-Super is a neat defensive Pokemon that I think is quite good right now. With Fur Coat, Prankster, or Poison Heal it can take on a lot of common Bolt Beak/Fishious Rend users, as well as Shedinja, Zamazenta, and some miscellaneous mons like Excadrill. The Ground resist is really nice, as it's often quite difficult to fit one of those onto a team and STAB Spectral Thief from Gourgeist's 100 base Attack can hit surprisingly hard. Its weaknesses to Spectral Thief and Knock Off are annoying, and it gets ganked by a surprise V-Create quite often, but despite this I've found room for it on a lot of teams recently.

View attachment 217461@View attachment 217481
Ghost resists are becoming even scarcer due to Dragapult's plummeting popularity, which is great for Choice Specs Adaptability Lunala, one of the most underrated wallbreakers in the tier at the moment. Great STABs, a speed tier that puts it ahead of the Unova Dragons, and very good bulk combine to make Lunala a threat that many teams aren't really prepared to deal with. What's cool about Lunala is that Moongeist Beam and Psystrike allow it to get past pretty much any Ice Scales mon, which is what a lot of teams rely on to blanket check special attackers in the absence of versatile special walls. Its issue is that while very little can avoid being 2HKOd by Lunala, it doesn't actually threaten to OHKO many things, so it can struggle to force switches.

Lunala @ Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Psystrike
- Volt Switch
- Blue Flare / Secret Sword / Focus Blast / Trick

View attachment 217473
Excadrill has been picking up quite a bit lately as well. I'm a big fan of Choice Band sets like this one:

Excadrill @ Choice Band
Ability: Intrepid Sword / Adaptability / Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Sunsteel Strike / Double Iron Bash
- U-turn / Double Iron Bash
- Bolt Beak / Extreme Speed / Double Iron Bash

Excadrill's Earthquake is very difficult to switch into, as so many of the best Pokemon in the tier are weak to Ground and resists are often hard to come by. It's secondary STAB in Sunsteel Strike and/or Double Iron Bash lets it get past Fur Coat users and pretty much anything else that can switch into Earthquake. It's role as a physical wallbreaker that not only breaks Melmetal but also can usually safely switch into it is very valuable. Compared to other wallbreakers its speed tier is unimpressive, but it offers meaningful defensive synergy by being immune to Bolt Beak. It also can run a decent Scarf set, but that one is not quite as potent and often outclassed. The boosting sets with Ground-type Multi-Attack are ok but a little bit gimmicky I think, the fact that they can't run Shell Smash without losing to Imposter is pretty wack and makes it way less appealing to me compared to some other Imposter-proof boosting sweeper like Marshadow.

On future suspects:

I'm in favour of suspecting Bolt Beak and maybe Fishious Rend in future, but I think they should be dealt with separately and not tiered as a unit. Despite having the same mechanics, the metagame impact of these moves is very different. Bolt Beak has very strong STAB abusers in Zekrom and Zeraora and is useful as a coverage move for a lot of threats. Fishious Rend's best STAB abusers are Barraskewda and Gyarados, certainly a step down, and the only things that want to run it as coverage are Electrics trying to hit bulky Grounds. I think Bolt Beak is far more problematic and I think there's a good chance I would vote to ban it in a suspect, but I don't really feel the same way about Fishious Rend, which feels easier to handle both in the teambuilder and in battle. The complication is that users of both of these moves frequently run the other as coverage: Bolt Beak might be easier to manage if Fishious Rend were gone, and vice versa. Regardless, I think the best course of action regarding these moves is to deal with Bolt Beak first and then assess Fishious Rend.

I've said before that I think Dynamaxing isn't as plainly broken in BH as it is in other tiers, that we have the tools to deal with it offensively, and that it offers valuable defensive utility. I still believe this, but I'm coming to feel that it may be problematic for the way that it makes many Pokemon difficult to check offensively. The power increase and stat boosts isn't a big deal in BH, but frail offensive threats being able to double their bulk at will to avoid being revenge-killed can be very obnoxious and creates a lot of high-stakes 50/50s. I feel like this may not be healthy for the metagame in the long run, but I'm still unsure to what extent this is just me still maybe not being fully accustomed to the mechanic.
Click to expand...
Hey, Excadrill, could Tough Claws High Horsepower, and keep the rest of its moves. This replaces Adaptability for your proposed set.

Also, I think Kyurem-White is now competing with Mold Breaker Reshiram as a premier Wall Breaker. Bypassing Flash Fire, and having solid coverage between its STABs removes the need for Earth Power and enables additional coverage moves.

Lastly, Toxapex and Darmanitan-Z are actually having to compete with Ice Scales / RegenVest Primarina on Imposterproofing and handling Special Attackers. Primarina is the official GOAT Starter for this Generation.

One note; I think people are forgetting about Sheer Force, which can pair nicely with Icicle Crash, Pyro Ball, Bolt Strike, etc. to bluff Choice sets and partner nicely with Life Orb, serving as, you know, that item that maintains getting a boost during Dynamax as well. Sheer Force makes it that much easier to Imposterproof as well, removing things like Burn from Pyro Ball for your own Shedinja to handle Imposter.

Lastly, I am still surprised people are using Corsola over Dusclops. The 8.25% bulk difference is like a free Leftovers heal. Sure; it’s cuter, but I hope to see Dusclops rise as the main Ghost-tank as oftentimes its just not thought of by newer players.

In either case, good overall analysis. Proud of you for putting it together. It came off nicely.

——————
Mega metaboss said:
The point is, even with a extremely good fairy move with the power level of v-create, there are still so many resists in the meta that almost completely checks/counters it, like Melmetal, Toxapex, Aegislash, Darmanitan-Zen, etc. It doesn’t even have that high of an attacking stat.


I agree here, as failing to revenge-kill a frail attacker like DarmanitanGZ could cost you the whole game, even when you had the advantage and are waiting for the W. Dynamaxing also lets sweepers get boosts/support from Max Moves setting terrains or weather, making problematic things like Bolt Beak spammers even more problematic. The doubled HP also makes attackers take less damage from recoil (mainly Life Orb) so they get 2/3 more turns of sweeping before Life Orb kills it. Mons running ice/rock moves can also set hail/sand respectively to kill Shed, which idk if it is a good thing... we have to wait for what council decides on Shed suspect. But after all, it’s just three turns of disaster, and Dynamaxed mons can be easily forced out in BH, unlike other metagames. I think Dynamax can also be discussed later as the meta develops.

Btw hope the council can take action on Shed as soon as possible :)
Click to expand...
Speaking of Dynamax, how do you feel about Behemoth Blade, and Dynamax Cannon, etc.?

Is it worth running?

As for Life Orb; you still lose the same amount of HP, it just looks less.

Say you have 100 HP, Life Orb removes 10 HP.
Now 90 HP.

You Dynamax to 200 HP, you attack, you still lose 10, which shows as 5% of 200. So 180 of 200.

Thus, once it wears off you are at the same HP as you would have been if you didn’t Dynamax, so 80 / 100.
 
Last edited:
Here's an announcement of our own:
It was never our intention to force start a suspect, we simply wished to move discussion in the direction of FSMs. However, we heard your feedback loud and clear. We have planned on launching a suspect test for Shedinja very soon, and we'll try to make it as smooth an experience as possible for everyone.
We are also steadily working on launching our resources so expect more announcements from the BHC on that front too.
We will continue to be as responsive to your feedback as possible. Thanks
 
Samples Time

With the BH Open coming up and many new or estranged players (hopefully) looking to get involved it's about time we got some samples out. As I mentioned the aim is to get these sorted by around the time the Open signups close so as to make it easier for people joining and as such this should hopefully be more speedy than usual.

You know how this works by now. Post good teams you have tested properly, preferably ones that aren't too hard to pick up and use.

What you need to put (copied from E4 Flint 's last request in USUM)
  • Your name of the team (this will appear in my screenshot from ps!)
  • A generic one-liner description of what the team does, which will be put with your name above the screenshot. If you don't provide a name, I am planning on just using this inside the screenshot too if it fits. If you don't provide either of these, we will make a description for you and use it.
  • Your team on pokepaste (or other text hosting service if you want) (try to include the above two points in pokepaste, but anything else is upto you).
  • How to use your team: try to answer the following - what are the effective combo pieces, what should you open with, what are some popular threats or playstyles your team is able to answer. Don't worry too much about this being a whole RMT though!
  • (NEW or at least it was when Flint posted this) What sets or playstyles your team is weak to: maybe some quick changes that are suggested with a note about how it changes your mu, but this is not required.
  • How effective is your team: why should someone use it? here you can add an rmt if you've written one but definitely some ladder/tour experience, possibly with a replay or two.
Hopefully we can get a range of different playstyles of team so there's something for everyone.

Submissions will be open one week so hopefully we can decide on the best and have them posted by the end of next weekend. This might be a smaller than usual update though due to the meta being so new and the possibility of bans soon, so don't be surprised if we have to do this again in a month.

Thanks in advance to everyone!
 
Team name: It's Prayer Time
Team importable: https://pokepast.es/e7a8c3d447da2169
Short description: Bulky offensive team with plenty of options to win
How to use the team: view my RMT: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/bh-its-prayer-time-peaked-top-10-ladder-1588-elo.3658236/
and replace Mamoswine with Excadrill
matchups: works well against bulky/slow paced teams who rely on a sturdy defensive core such as FC Melmetal + Toxapex + Shedinja to counter threats;
Matches well against fast offensive teams who rely on immediately fast wallbreakers such as fast Band/Scarf users, but may fail against the uncommon weather offense teams
matches poorly against normal-type setup because of no Imposter or Prank Haze, but you can run Topsy-Turvy on Type: Null to deal with setup users not running Substitute.
Matches poorly against Shell Smash spam (one or two should not be a problem)
 
Unsure if Nintendo Direct news is a spoiler so I'll keep this hidden. Inside I'll discuss the potential viability of some of the different mons we've been able to so far this generation.
So recent news tells us we are getting back 200+ mons, including the past generation legendary mons as well as some BH relevant mons like Chansey. While most or all of these mons won't be available until June 2020 at the earliest, I wanted to look ahead at the mons that will likely lose their viability in Gen 8 BH as a result. Without going into a ton of detail on these, I'll lay this out by stating the new mon and following with the mons who might lose viability on their arrival. I won't include every new mon or legendary but will hit some important ones.
:chansey: / :blissey:
Chansey / Blissey - Wobbuffet, Munchlax, Snorlax, Drifblim, and Wailord will no longer be seen as Imposter.
:ho-oh:
Ho-Oh - Torkoal will face stiff competition as a defensive Fire-type once Ho-Oh is available.
:groudon:
Groudon - Hippowdon is outclassed by Groudon in every way. Groudon's pure Ground typing also gives benefits over the exploitable typing of Rhydon and Rhyperior. It will also compete with Excadrill as an offensive Ground-type even while lacking a useful secondary Steel typing.
:kyogre:
Kyogre - Jellicent, Primarina, and Seismitoad all have nice typings, but Kyogre's mixed bulk is better and offers more offensive presence.
:rayquaza:
Rayquaza - Gyarados will have competition as an offensive Flying-type, even though Fishious Rend is the main reason it sees usage.
:giratina:
Giratina - Doublade, Dusclops, Aegislash, Gourgeist-Super, Jellicent and Runerigus will all envy Giratina's massive 150/120/120 bulk. Aegislash will still stand apart thanks to its Steel typing, but the other's niches will definitely get smaller.
:dialga:
Dialga - There was no reason to use Duraludon, but Dialga will likely make Steel-types like Ferrothorn Steelix, and Escavalier more niche options thanks to its nice typing, bulk, and offenses.
:regigigas:
Regigigas - Snorlax will face competition as a bulky Normal-type. Snorlax will have a niche of being incredibly slow and having better special bulk, but Regigigas will bring back PH Facade sweeper sets.
:yveltal:
Yveltal - Most certainly Mandibuzz and likely Umbreon will see no usage with Yveltal around. It also gives Gyarados more competition as an offensive Flying-type.
:xerneas:
Xerneas - Zacian is outclassed by Xerneas in every way other than Speed.
:tapu fini:
Tapu Fini - With less offensive presence, Fini is clearly a better defensive option than Primarina.
:tapu koko:
Tapu Koko - Zeraora is faster, but a secondary Fairy-type and slightly more power will make Koko an interesting Bolt Beak user (if it is still legal by then).
1578599759038.png

Urshifu - Its stats are unknown, but being a legendary means they will likely be pretty good. The Water/Fighting variant could potentially compete with Seismitoad as a bulky Steel resist.
 
Last edited:
a loser said:
Unsure if Nintendo Direct news is a spoiler so I'll keep this hidden. Inside I'll discuss the potential viability of some of the different mons we've been able to so far this generation.
So recent news tells us we are getting back 200+ mons, including the past generation legendary mons as well as some BH relevant mons like Chansey. While most or all of these mons won't be available until June 2020 at the earliest, I wanted to look ahead at the mons that will likely lose their viability in Gen 8 BH as a result. Without going into a ton of detail on these, I'll lay this out by stating the new mon and following with the mons who might lose viability on their arrival. I won't include every new mon or legendary but will hit some important ones.
:chansey: / :blissey:
Chansey / Blissey - Wobbuffet, Munchlax, Snorlax, Drifblim, and Wailord will no longer be seen as Imposter.
:ho-oh:
Ho-Oh - Torkoal will face stiff competition as a defensive Fire-type once Ho-Oh is available.
:groudon:
Groudon - Hippowdon is outclassed by Groudon in every way. Groudon's pure Ground typing also gives benefits over the exploitable typing of Rhydon and Rhyperior. It will also compete with Excadrill as an offensive Ground-type even while lacking a useful secondary Steel typing.
:kyogre:
Kyogre - Jellicent, Primarina, and Seismitoad all have nice typings, but Kyogre's mixed bulk is better and offers more offensive presence.
:rayquaza:
Rayquaza - Gyarados will have competition as an offensive Flying-type, even though Fishious Rend is the main reason it sees usage.
:giratina:
Giratina - Doublade, Dusclops, Aegislash, Gourgeist-Super, Jellicent and Runerigus will all envy Giratina's massive 150/120/120 bulk. Aegislash will still stand apart thanks to its Steel typing, but the other's niches will definitely get smaller.
:dialga:
Dialga - There was no reason to use Duraludon, but Dialga will likely make Steel-types like Ferrothorn Steelix, and Escavalier more niche options thanks to its nice typing, bulk, and offenses.
:regigigas:
Regigigas - Snorlax will face competition as a bulky Normal-type. Snorlax will have a niche of being incredibly slow and having better special bulk, but Regigigas will bring back PH Facade sweeper sets.
:yveltal:
Yveltal - Most certainly Mandibuzz and likely Umbreon will see no usage with Yveltal around. It also gives Gyarados more competition as an offensive Flying-type.
:xerneas:
Xerneas - Zacian is outclassed by Xerneas in every way other than Speed.
:tapu fini:
Tapu Fini - With less offensive presence, Fini is clearly a better defensive option than Primarina.
:tapu koko:
Tapu Koko - Zeraora is faster, but a secondary Fairy-type and slightly more power will make Koko an interesting Bolt Beak user (if it is still legal by then).
View attachment 217656
Urshifu - Its stats are unknown, but being a legendary means they will likely be pretty good. The Water/Fighting variant could potentially compete Seismitoad's as a bulky Steel resist.
Click to expand...
It is worth mentioning that these Pokémon coming back means that in all likelihood that their signature moves will become available again, reintroducing moves like Geomancy, Dragon Ascent, Sacred Fire and Thousand Arrows in the metagame.
 
Last edited:
calyrex.png
Balloon deer with stilts for legs lol

Aside from that I'm pretty excited for all the new additions! Except Chansey but that's a topic for another discussion. The new Regis look super cool, and Urshifu looks like it'll be very interesting. All the old legendaries that are coming back are gonna really spice things up. Groudon in particular might help balance out Bolt Beak a little if Beak isn't gone by then, and Kyogre should be a decent check to Darm ZG and Kyu W, same for Fini. Ho Oh with Boots will be very interesting. Giratina is really big, it'll easily be the best defensive Ghost in the tier and help check a lot of threats. Oblivion Wing is back so we'll most likely see the return of Triage sets, though there's less abusers and Tail Glow still isn't a thing. We'll have to see but Rayquaza will probably still do CM+Triage, and people will use Zapdos since it gets Parabolic Charge. There's so much to talk about but those are some things that came to mind.
 
Team Name: Boogie Nights
Short Description: Balance that focuses around pivoting and two strong breakers
How to use the team: This team is pretty straightforward, and features two Poison Heal setup sweepers along with a very strong Intrepid Sword Zamazenta, which has very limited switchins. It's important to utilize Teleport or other pivoting early game in order to get the Poison Heal users in safely, or in order to bring Zamazenta in more freely. Zamazenta is absolutely devastating for most teams, so make sure to apply pressure with it, but don't be overly reckless with it or else you could easily lose it. Mewtwo is a great Dynamax users as well.
For defensive options, Prankster Melmetal and Fur Coat Seismitoad cover a large portion of the meta, with Prankster Haze being one of the best setup control options and Fur Coat Seis covering threatening electric-types in Zekrom and Zeraora. Mandibuzz is a solid improof to Mewtwo, and is a solid Magic Bounce user in general, being able to check Entrainment Dragapult (bad mon) and in general block hazards. I still prefer minimum speed on Teleport users in order to underspeed other Teleport users.
Overall the team is pretty easy to pick up and has some solid offensive options that can break through some common balances effectively, while still functioning well against other offense.
Weak match-ups: Reshiram is probably the most difficult matchup for the team, as it beats the main check to setup, Melmetal, and blows through secondary options. One option to help curb this weakness would be to make Mandibuzz +SpD and have Spectral Thief over Teleport.
Effectiveness: As someone who isn't a BH main by any means, but pays attention to the meta from an outside perspective, I think this team was something that was easy for me to use and I think would be something that other people could pick up easily as well.

That being said, I'm well aware that I'm not a BH main nor am I confident in my skills as a BH player, but BH this gen has been genuinely enjoyable so far and I hope to contribute more to it in the future, so this post hopefully is a good place to start.
 
Last edited:
Team Name: Burning Snowman
Short Description: Balanced Offense built around strong Physical and Special attackers
How to use the team: Keep pressure on the opposing team with Eternatus and Darmanitan-Galar-Zen's strong breaking potential. Darm-G-Z can beat most offensive mons with its Choice Scarf and sun-boosted V-create, while Eternatus handles the FF/Primsea Steels that force Darm-G-Z out. Solgaleo and Melmetal improof Eternatus and Darm-G-Z, respectively, and either trap or force out Imposter users. They also serve to check opposing physical and special threats. Kyurem-Black uses Heavy Duty Boots to clean hazards to protect Darm-G-Z with -ate Rapid Spin while also revenge killing with Extreme Speed and 2HKOing Melmetal that aren't immune to Fire. Snorlax helps check setup threats with Haze and Encore and has a useful Normal typing to force out Dragapult and Choice Specs Lunala.
Match-ups: Water attacks like Fishious Rend are dangerous to this team, but can be kept at bay as long as Darm-G-Z and resists like Kyurem-Black and Eternatus are healthy. Electric attacks like Bolt Beak from Zeraora can also pose a threat if the opposing team gains momentum. However, common Bolt Beak users are revenge killed by Darm-G-Z and Kyurem-Black. Choice Band over Choice Scarf is an option on Darm-G-Z, but it makes the matchup with Zacian-C much more difficult.
Effectiveness: This team has given me success on the ladder, recently reaching #2 after a run with it. The breakers are fairly straightforward to use and the improofs are effective while not being niche when facing opposing threats. Below are two replays against good players from when Melmetal was an Escavalier.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1039916420
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1039664529

Yes, this is the Secret Santa team I made but it has been altered some to make it better for the current meta. Escavalier was cool, but Melmetal is a better wall so I made that change.
 
A lot of old staples returning means we're in kind of a weird phase of BH where a lot of teams and movesets we develop now are going to be heavily obsolete. Meanwhile, a lot of Gen VII teams that are not salvageable have the potential to be ported over with some modifications. However, the lack of Megas and Primals means we won't be getting quite the same level of offensive prowress as Gen VII had and I foresee the meta potentially taking a stallier lean barring any unforseen additions or changes. The lack of those forms means teams might wind up looking like an evolution of Gen V rather than Gen VII.

The existence of Primal Weathers though makes me wonder if Primals will return in some fashion, however. Will Mega and Primals return normally? Or will they return as G-Max? Utter speculation with little basis, weee! Worth noting though, if Pogre returns it'll be a pretty darn good user of Fish Rend with its base 150 Attack and massive bulk to sponge hits while boosting its speed or abusing Swift Swim. There is zilch evidence this will occur but... hey, it's an interesting thought.

Glancing through the list of returning mons, we have possible signature moves coming back. So, lemme list and try not to miss any. Remember: none of these are confirmed.

Staple(ish)

Sacred Fire
Precipice Blades
Dragon Ascent
Roar of Time
Oblivion Wing (Quick Feet Ray is back! :D)
Thousand Arrows
Thousand Waves
Core Enforcer (GDI!)

Niche

Aeroblast
Luster Purge (Maybe gimmick since mostly just Serene Grace abuse)
Origin Pulse
Spacial Rend
Magma Storm
Geomancy

Gimmick

Mist Ball
Lunar Dance
Shadow Force
Nature's Madness (so long as Parental Bond is absent, otherwise niche it)

Utterly Outclassed

Land's Wrath


Ban Shedinja please so I can abuse FSMs 10x more easily since it's like the only consistent stop so far
 
Hi so I have created a discord server for hosting unofficial BH tournaments (for gen 8, 7 and NatDex BH, maybe including other fun formats like Camo and Mono and UU). This should help in developing the metas, provide more challenging games for players, and help with the issue often brought up in discord on BH's lack of competitiveness. Feel free to share the link to any players interested!
Link: https://discord.gg/bCBZe3g

My Sample Team Submissions:
Team Name: Twilight Moon
Description: Specs Adapt Lunala standard Balance.
How to use team: Choice Specs Lunala has no switch-ins which allows you to punish defensive cores easily. Ice Scales Dark-types are checked by Zacian who can spread status and trap unsuspecting targets and remove them. Toxapex and Melmetal form the main defensive core and is capable of checking most meta threats. Mandibuzz provides an useful Ground-immunity and checks Normalize mons and setup. Will-o-Wisp punishes Normalize and Zacian-C which could be troubling with Earthquake. Imposter rounds the team off with blanket-checking and scouting. Snorlax improofs Lunala, Zacian improofs Mandibuzz, others are self-improof. Dragon Dance over Octolock on Zacian and Volt Switch over U-turn on Mandibuzz are alternate options.
Weaknesses: Earthquake users such as Zacian-C and Darm are threatening with the only counterplay being Mandibuzz Wisp which is unreliable. Kyurem-Black is especially troubling. Running Will-o-Wisp on Melmetal or Levitate on Melmetal alleviates this issue to an extent, although losing Spectral leaves the team more vulnerable to setup while losing Flash Fire leaves the team very vulnerable to Darm. Ice Scales or Sand Tyranitar is also a problem as it eats up Lunala easily and Zacian isn't the hardest mon to check.
Effectiveness: This was the primary team I used early on to climb to around top 10? with 89 GXE and 1 loss. Overall pretty consistent in the meta.

Team Name: Thunderstorms
Description: Band ISword Zeraora standard Balance.
How to use team: This is my Secret Santa team. Choice Band Zeraora is incredibly punishing. Bolt Beak 2HKOs Eternatus which is speaking of its power. U-turn pivots, V-create smacks FC Melmetal, Toxic catches Shed, Pranksters, and Grounds. Kyurem-White provides a long term wincon which can be difficult to check and sets up rocks well. Eternatus and Melmetal form the defensive core with Etern soaking Fire attacks while Melm checking Zac-C and setup. Scald on Eternatus punishes Steel-type switch-ins to gradually chip them down. Silvally provides Ground-immunity, utility and pivoting, helping check Zama, esp PH variants. Imposter rounds the team off. Zeraora improofs Silvally, Eternatus improofs Zeraora, Kyurem improofs Eternatus, Kyurem+Melmetal are self-improof.
Weaknesses: This team is soft to special breakers such as Kyurem-White and Lunala, although Zeraora is capable of revenge-killing after some prior damage. Melmetal can be swapped to a more specially bulky Steel-type such as Solgaleo but it doesn't take Earthquakes or weaker V-creates well. Silvally isn't very bulky and cannot reliably handle Zamazenta sets (Bolt Beak), replacing it with Mandibuzz or Corviknight are both options. V-create Zacian-C is dangerous and requires accurate predictions.
Effectiveness: I had a fair record with this team including winning a roomtour. Zeraora is very easy to use effectively and achieves consistent results.

Team Name: Ban Shed
Description: Sand Shed with stacked offensive threats.
How to use team: Use the fast breakers Zama and Barra to hard pressure the opposing teams by wearing down checks and gaining free switches from forced recovers. Reshiram provides a soft Zacian-C check and an utility absorber and setup sweeper. Umbreon provides Magic Bounce, Knock Off, and Paralysis support. It also absorbs Photon and Moongeists. Rhydon is an electric immunity, sets sand to delete opposing non-Goggles Shed. Shedinja is completely broken, improofs both breakers, Resh, and Rhydon, and gives slow-pivoting. Umbreon prevents rocks from Imposter Shed, Resh improofs Umbreon, Barra is more effective than Shed at punishing Imposter Rhydon. Baneful Bunker over Spiky Shield on Shed, Teleport over U-turn on Umbreon, Icicle Crash over Earthquake on Barraskewda, and Double Iron Bash over Bolt Beak on Zamazenta are alternate options.
Weaknesses: Earthquake Zacian-C is difficult to check but struggles to find opportunities to come in safely. Levitate Eternatus is a difficult wall to break through but repeated attacks can wear it down. Opposing Goggles Shed is very difficult to break and requires a careful hazard game or a lucky Knock Off from Umbreon. No prankster is vulnerable to setup but every mon on the team has a way to punish setup.
Effectiveness: Have not tested this team very much but I have tested an alternate Sand Shed team and it was disgusting despite having some problems which shows the power of Shed teams.

Team Name: Electric Flames
Description: Dual physical breakers with Shed.
How to use team: Zeraora and Darm-GZ form a ridiculous wallbreaking core by pressuring common checks and cores easily. Free switches are very common thanks to forced recovers from even the bulkiest checks (Bolt Beak 3HKOs FC Melm, forcing recover). GDZ pressures Shed teams very well. Seismitoad checks Zacian-C and Bolt Beak users, the former a massive threat to Shed teams. Tyranitar provides a prankster and absorbs special Moldy moves and spreads Knock Offs. Zacian provides Bounce support and checks opposing PH users, including Zamazenta and Reshiram to an extent through typing, Spirit Break, and eventual Octolock. Shed improofs Zeraora, Seismitoad improofs Darm, Seismi and Zacian improof Tyranitar, Zacian prevents Imposter Shed rocks. Anchor is an option over Scald on Seismitoad and Volt Switch is an option over Knock Off on Tyranitar to ease improofing.
Weaknesses: Imposter is annoying as Seismitoad doesn't really have an improof and can only burn Imposter. Zacian can improof it by trapping but will likely get burned. Photon Zacian-C can break past Seismi through minor chip damage which is yikes. Sand or Hail teams are almost auto-losses but if they lack Imposter then it is workable with Darm being very good.
Effectiveness: I have a decent record with this team on ladder (got lucked once I think).

Both Shed teams abuse maybe borderline maybe not aspects of the game including Shed and the high-bp move breakers. This makes them very effective to use and not as complicated as regular shed teams are.

I think some replays for these teams can be found under the usernames Chessking345, Contradictory Proof, Free Spore in BH, and Free Spore. I'm not too sure on quality replays for third team.
 
Last edited:
Not sure if you guys have discussed tiering post expansion but assuming that we do go with a Bolt Beak suspect after Shed I think we should def look at that again. I also think any elements that are added back in should be banned if it was on the previous banlist, we can always suspect them back in later. Ofc though that's just my two cents and tbh it's a little hard to assess how to go about this since this is the first time Pokemon has introduced DLC, and also the first time we aren't getting all the mons as soon as the game is out without any changes. Treating it like a new game in the same gen probably makes the most sense though like how we did w SM and USUM. It's not exactly an easy thing to handle though so hopefully some of these ideas are useful to get the ball rolling
 
Mega metaboss said:
Kyurem???? All those pressure that Kyurem-White brings to the meta is how strong a STAB 168 power boomer is. With Mold Breaker, its strongest Ice-type STAB is Ice Beam, which is nearly half the power of Ice-type boomer. The raw power of a Moldy Kyurem-White is just not appealing.


Ghost-types just aren't good in this meta. With most of the good ghosts gone this gen like Giratina and Aegislash (150 defenses), and the Knock Offs going around mainly due to Shed abusing Boots (it also knocks Eviolite from both Corsola and Dusclops), both don't do much in gen8 BH.

I know I lose the same amount, but the point is the percentage. Using your example, when you use 3 attacks without Dynamax, you lose 10x3 HP. 7 more attacks before you die. When you dynamax, each loses 5% (5HP) and you end up with 85HP which lets you attack 9 more times.

Behemoth Blade/Bash is just completely outclassed by Sunsteel Strike and Double Iron Bash. Dynamax Cannon is perfectly fine, Dynamax has both pros and cons that's why I want it discussed. If it doesn't have any weaknesses then it'd be gone long ago.
Click to expand...
I think you may have misinterpreted my post.

To clarify:

1). I was not referring to Mold Breaker Kyurem-White. I was referring to Kyurem-White, in general, as a wall breaker, has to compete with Mold Breaker Reshiram as a wall breaker.

Say they both have Specs sets.
——————
2). I think as long as Shedinja has a place in the meta, ghosts will have a place in it, to block Endeavor.

I would say that Dusclops is useful for stopping Fighting moves, and Doublade is one tough cookie with Flash Fire/Prim Sea and Eviolite to stop Physical threats.

Their niche is definitely smaller, but I usually see Dusclops, or Aegislash on teams, sometimes Doublade occasionally shows up.

3. I agree on the Anti-Dynamax moves.

4. I think for Dynamax, I see your point.
if you are at 30 HP out of 100, then you Dynamax to 200 HP, you are at 30% HP, not 15%, correct? Then according to you, you take 5% and if you attack 3 turns in a row, you won’t die on the 3rd turn.

I will have to go back and check, but nothing testing again won’t solve. As I haven’t been using Life Orb and Dynamax together for a few weeks now.

5). I am going to watch the Nintendo Direct! Yay!
 
  • Your name of the team: Eternecro
  • Description: Shell Smash Spam with two pivot scarf users.
  • Your team on pokepaste: https://pokepast.es/5d6d326ddf23a696
  • How to use your team: I know it's not my team and also a meme team of some kind but it works and I've taken a different path from the original with Lunala, so why not? Basically a hyper offense shell smash spam team using four Necrozma-Wings and two pivot scarf Eternatus (Eternatuses? Eternati? Whatever) with one main gimmick: Final Gambit + Scrappy. Open with one of those and kill the first Pokemon your opponent sends. If the opponent's first Pokemon is something with higher HP than Eternatus or you suspect it to be focus sash then switch to one of the necrozma. Pretty easy, just smash and sweep, spectral thief if they steal your stats or for imposters. As for the Necrozma, all of them are different in their own way.
  • Simple - Just shell smash and sweep. The main one you should probably switch into.
  • Magic Bounce - Use this one if your opponent is using a bulky mon with status moves or for Entrainment Dragapult.
  • Dazzling - Use this vs priority attackers like Kyurem-B, Darm-Galar-Z, etc.
  • Prankster - This one is unique, it has Destiny Bond. It is your last resort if your opponent has its own mon maxed with setup moves or imposters if your other Necrozma are dead. This is especially useful when you are against the same team with the Lunala instead of Eternatus. If they break your sash after you switch into this, prankster destiny bond will take their mon out.
  • What sets or playstyles your team is weak to: It is weak to anyone smart enough to counter it properly. And maybe something with Double Iron Bash. The team is pretty dumb itself but people don't expect it unless they have faced it before or know about it. Also you might lose to weird teams of 1000 Elo players with sets like Avalanche Snorlax, normal Corsola (non-Galar) with Octazooka, Muddy Water and Rain Dance.
  • How effective is your team: I mean on my code8rut3 account I went up from around 1200 to 1530 in two hours and then dropped back to around 1400 in the next three battles. Of course, if your opponent is a low ladder player using a New Meta™ set for an existing meta Pokemon then you might get bamboozled and lose. And after losing to them I dropped 40 points per match.
 
Team Name: Rust Is The Honor On A Dull Blade
Short Description: Balance around Zacian-C (who the team is named after) with a strong double steel defensive core.
How to use the team: The team is pretty simple, break stuff with Zacian and Lunala, send the steels into most of the shit or sometimes Tyranitar if you're wanting to throw in Magic Bounce. Zacian is great and needs no explanation, Volt Switch is its main form of wearing down non-ground FC switchins. Lunala is there to break shit Zacian can't (Looking at you Seismitoad), hits extremely hard and carries Volt Switch to wear down switchins over time. Fur Coat Melmetal is the epitome of physical switchins, this thing can even comfortably switch into many Zamazenta sets and non-ph bolt beak / fishious rend users, Anchor Shot + Rapid Spin can successfully out pp anything it manages to trap. Primordial Sea Ferrothorn is there mainly for Darm-GZ as the Melmetal can't take on Desoland/MoldBreaker versions and it's +Spdef and spectral to be able to check things like Reshiram, Kyurem-W, Eternatus and others that rely on Fire/Ice/Dragon/Ground coverage. Tyranitar is the Lunala/Ferro improof, normalize draga check and other common pranksters or hazard setters like Aegislash, Runerigus and Toxapex. Wobbuffet is your classic imposter for scouting and managing wincons, its moveset is pretty much up to you.
Weak match-ups: Lunala and Dawn-Wings with fighting coverage can really mess up this team, as none of the steels or ttar can do anything about it and I often have to rely on Zacian to switchin and pressure them out. Double or Triple Darm-GZ teams with multiple desolands can bypass primsea, in these mus hazards like rocks and webs are very important and after scouting items Zacian can outspeed everything non-scarfed. PH FSM users are also a pain in the ass, usually resorting to constantly spectral thieving their boosts away with ferrothorn pressure them off the field with Zacian.
Effectiveness: I started out Gen 8 BH a day before the suspect in hopes of getting a feel for the meta for the upcoming open and managed to craft something easy to use that is highly effective against the common choices of the playerbase and has tools to power through bad matchups. Perhaps may fall victim to niche strategies but that sombers every team out there.

Edit: Melmetal > Ferrothorn
Edit2: Double Iron Bash > Sunsteel Strike; Photon Geyser > Power Whip

I have the terrible habit of never saving replays so I'm sorry I can't provide any, I will try to keep this in mind and add a few in the next few days.
 
Last edited:
Hi everyone! (And sorry for my pathetic English)

I'm not a gen8BH player but I search a lot of gen8BH sets and made a setpedia.
https://pokepast.es/6028f83a3443d559

I know my setpedia isn't complete, I must forgot a lot of set with my lack of experience, and some sets seems to me to be garbage sets, but if the community made a true setpedia for this gen (like the past gen), I think it will help a lot of beginners.
 
Following on from DF Shock's preliminarySetpedia, I have compiled a list of speed tiers that may come in useful if you need to know if you can outspee something, especially after setup.

Speed tiers:

Note: All these numbers assume full evs in speed unless otherwise stated.
Speed: Name/nature/any boosts/any notes
1149: Dragapult/neutral/+4
1125: Zacian, Zamazenta / Neutral / +4
868: Zacian-Crowned/+Spe/+2
842: Dragapult/+Spe/+2
790: Zacian-Crowned/neutral/+2
788: Eternatus, Mewtwo/+Spe/+2
766: Dragapult/neutral/+2
738: Darmanitan-Galar-Zen / Neutral / +2
729: Tyranitar/+Spe/+4
718: Eternatus, Mewtwo/neutral/+2
663: Tyranitar/neutral/+4
631: Dragapult/+Spe/+1
591: Eternatus, Mewtwo/+Spe/+1
574: Dragapult/neutral/+1
562: Zacian, Zamazenta/neutral/+1
558: Reshiram, zekrom/neutral/+0/with Swift Swim, Sand Rush, Chlorophyll or Surge Surfer in appropriate weather/terrain
553: Darmanitan-Galar-Zen / Neutral / +1
538: Eternatus, Mewtwo/neutral/+1
522: Gyarados / neutral / +2
486: Tyranitar/+Spe/+2
486: Hydreigon/+Spe/+1
480: Aegislash-Blade/+Spe/+2
442: Tyranitar/neutral/+2
442: Hydreigon/neutral/+1
439: Solgaleo / Neutral / +1
438: Aegislash-Blade/neutral/+2
434: Zacian-Crowned/+Spe/+0
433: Kyurem-w/Neutral/+1
423: Zeraora / +spe / +0
421: Dragapult/+Spe/+0
412: Zacian, Zamazenta/+Spe/+0
408: Barrascuda/+Spe/+0
405: Darmanitan-Galar-Zen / +Spe / +0
395: Zacian-Crowned/neutral/+0
394: Eternatus, Mewtwo/+Spe/+0
390: Zamazenta-Crowned/+Spe/+0
385: Zeraora / neutral / +0
383: Marshadow / +Spe /+0
383: Dragapult/neutral/+0
375: Zacian, Zamazenta/neutral/+0
371: Barrascuda/Neutral / +0
369: Darmanitan-Galar-Zen / Neutral / +0
359: Eternatus, Mewtwo/neutral/+0
358: Golisopod / Neutral / +2
355: Zamazenta-Crowned/neutral/+0
324: Hydreigon/+Spe/+0
322: Solgaleo, Lunala/+Spe/+0
317: Silvally, Kyurem-B, Kyurem-W/+Spe/+0
306: Pikachu, Reshiram, Zekrom/+Spe/+0
295: Hydreigon/neutral/+0
293: Solgaleo, Lunala/neutral/+0
289: Silvally, Kyurem-B, Kyurem-W/neutral/+0
284: Chandelure/+Spe/+0
279: Pikachu, Reshiram, Zekrom/neutral/+0
270: Darmanitan-Galar-Zen / +Spe / -1 (V-Create speed drop)
261: Gyarados / neutral / +0
259: Chandelure/neutral/+0
246: Darmanitan-Galar-Zen / neutral / -1 (V-Create speed drop)
243: Tyranitar/+Spe/+0
240: Aegislash/+Spe/+0
229: Seismatoad / Neutral / +0
221: Tyranitar/neutral/+0
219: Aegislash, Jellicent, Primarina / neutral/+0
217: Type: Null/Neutral/+0
193: Hippowdon/neutral/+0
179: Golisopod, Shedinja/Neutral/+0
169: Toxapex, Doublade/neutral/+0
167: Melmetal/neutral/+0
159: Corsola-Galar, Snorlax/neutral/+0
149: Dusclops/neutral/+0
139: Ferrothorn/neutral/+0
76: Shedinja/-spe/+0/no Speed IVs
 
Funbot28 said:
9efc35fc2ba869d26a3b510fe4556e84.png

I will be flamed for this but whatev its just an opinion. Will be voting No Ban. While I agree that Shed is a nuisance this gen due to the flexibility of it's item slot potentially enabling it to circumvent some form of dealing with it (Boots with hazards, Ppads with anti-contact moves, and sometimes Goggles for weather residual damage), I still feel that Shed can't always perform it's role as a catch all check to many wallbreakers / defensive mons that people make it out to be. A lot of teams carry means to deal with Shed nowadays, and I feel this gen the importance of checking Shed is set to a higher importance due to the decreased power creep compared to previous gens. Whether it be through the moldy moves, Koff + Hazards, status, weather, etc, Shed will always face some form of potential counterplay one way or another despite the item it carries. This may fall in line with a level of over-centralization of course, but from what I can gather thus far, I feel Shed just offers another precaution in the teambuilding phase no different from other threats such as Zekrom, Zacian-C, Darmanitan-G, and other miscellaneous threats, one that requires even more risk to run given the nature of it's fragility. Albeit, having a great payoff if used carefully, I still feel Shed provides a competitive aspect to the tier that differs from the notion of it being a "braindead" addition to any team as one does need to build around it moreso then most "offensive wallbreakers / pivots" in the tier imo.

Now I will proceed to crawl in my hole as the rocks come flying my way lol.

edit: team i used cause i wanna be like the cool kids: https://pokepast.es/7db176ac6ca17cf8
Click to expand...

I kinda wanted to address this. No harm intended here so hopefully I don't get anyone mad off stuff I didn't say or mean.

I feel like judging a Pokemon like Shedinja based off how it can't do everything it can do all the time is flawed when the stuff that it can do is so vast in the first place. It's simultaneously a wall, a wallbreaker, a hazard setter, quality support, and a pretty safe switchin to anything you've scouted that it can wall. Sure, it's true that sometimes it can't do all this - but that's why it's not quickbanned straight up, because instead of being able to always fulfill all its roles at once, it's roles change every game. While it's true that the means of dealing with Shedinja have increased in viability, they have also decreased in availability and reliability, as has already been covered. Because of this, even though Shedinja checks are a lot easier to fit on teams, they also end up making the team worse off because stuff like Sand Stream is not only outclassed by Ice Scales, but also unreliable. Stuff like Rocky Helmet... Sure, it can work, but Pads is still good. Stuff like rocks doesnt do well because of boots. It's easy to say that you can fit all of these on a team in theory; But in practice, it's hard to ever guarantee that you'll be able to use all of these effectively because you can't control the Shedinja team your opponent uses. It's incredibly hard to make your checks work as often as they should because the concept of chip damage literally does not apply to Shedinja, it completely redefines one of the fundamental concepts in this game and makes it null and void, and centralizes this around itself and turns checking it into a game of Russian roulette.

The threats you mentioned are arguably unhealthy as well, but why even bring them up? What's the goal of this comparison? It probably hurts your argument more than it helps it, since as of late these threats have proven to be more and more difficult to answer.

It's true that Shedinja requires skill to play, but I don't feel that's a reason to keep it. If something is unhealthy regardless of how much skill it takes, it should be banned for the sake of maturing the metagame.

I'd just like to restate that no disrespect was meant with this post, so I'd appreciate it if anyone who viewed this didn't find rudeness where there is none, and look at it for what it is - a criticism to an argument and nothing more. Thanks.

Also all of my points may not make sense I wrote this when I was tired af lol sorry!!!!!!!!!
 
I love this list! Excadrill, Kyurem-W, etc.! I appreciate also that you took the effort to alphabetize them all.

This took a real commitment and I appreciate your work.

I think if the Setpedia is created, this will be an actual Rough Draft for them to base it on.

Just as much I appreciate the efforts made by the actual creators of the sets, I also appreciate the direction this thread is going. In an effort to preserve that, I thought of some additional resources we can use!
———————

I propose a new listing of important Replays, posted in the OP:

Playstyles:

1. :Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: **Balanced- A mix of Offense, Defense, and Support to cover their own team’s usual set of weaknesses often associated with 1 Playstyle, ensuring their bases are covered at the cost of specialization:

A. Sample Team:

B. Sample Replay:

C. Sample Sets:

2. :Zamazenta-Crowned: **Defensive - A core of 2-4 durable Pokemon covering each other’s weaknesses, with support from the rest of the team to outlast common Offensive threats, in order to gradually wear down and accumulate residual damage through hazards, status, etc.

A. Sample Team:

B. Sample Replay:

C. Sample Sets:

3. :Zacian-Crowned: **Offensive - Designed around
supporting multiple Wallbreakers, and/or Sweepers in order to pressure and overwhelm teams.

A. Sample Team:

B. Sample Replay:

C. Sample Sets:

4. VR of Pokemon of per Category

I feel VR by Playstyle is important, so we establish what goes where, otherwise we may rank a Jack-Of-All-Trades fairly high, due to their versatility, but they might be only average in each category, and thus, not an ideal choice worthy of immediate consideration. *Think of Arceus last generation.

Also, since the metagame is fairly small, especially compared to prior generations, it would be easier to do so, especially before any more are added (I.e. Jan 2020 Nintendo Direct).
——————
I also think we need a section for key replays, such as the final round(s) of the BH Open, and other key tournaments so we can show the high-level of play to newer players, and possibly a little descriptive blurb depicting why a player likely made a key move that was pivotal during the match, such as a major prediction that factored into a win, or an obvious turn when someone was pressured into making a mistake.

TLDR: I think adding a section of replays would benefit everyone, to showcase what makes a team work as a unit, how a team exemplifies the build of a unique Playstyle, and where a moveset belongs within a team.

It would also be useful so people who are viewing this thread can see a sort of time capsule of where we are, as the metagame evolves.

Think of how important Ghost-types are before Shedinja’s Suspect. Then if Shedinja gets banned, imagine how less common they will become on teams. With this in mind, we can see how a replay from 1 era can exemplify what caused certain builds of teams (Pokemon, types, certain popular sets at the time), to become highly used or no longer used often.

It doesn’t have to match the exact template above, but I feel that organizing teams and the VR by Playstyle makes it easier to visualize and understand why something is good, as you highlight the environment in which it thrives, rather than just a listing of Pokemon / Sample Teams in general.

**We already plan to have sample teams, and a Setpedia, this only suggests a new organization based on Team Playstyles and an additional section for high-level Replays.
 
Last edited:
Short PSA: Sample team submissions are (officially) closed now, but if you post in the next couple of hours I'll probably add it to the list for consideration.

Thanks everyone for the effort you put into making teams, you guys are op :]
Also make sure you sign up for the BH open if you want to get involved in it!
 
DISCLAIMER: These sets are still in testing and the first one is walled by FC Melmetal. Also, they are likely outclassed by other offensive sets. Nonetheless, I wanted to share an idea with you all.

When the ability Mimicry was introduced this generation, I thought it might be interesting to play with but didn't really know how it could be relevant since there were better offensive abilities available like Gorilla Tactics and Intrepid Sword. Sword is still around, but I was looking at the rise in usage of Zeraora thanks to its fast Bolt Beak and started getting some strange ideas.

Zeraora is really good right now, but its power coming from base 112 Attack got me wondering if I could use Mimicry to create a stronger Zeraora. Looking at the mons who are also fast but stronger than Zeraora left me with options like Dragapult, Zacian, Zamazenta, Barraskewda, and Darm-GZ. Of these, I chose while considering base offensive typing and bulk, which gave me Zamazenta and Darm-GZ. The sets are shown below.
1579277713408.png

1579277831966.png
or
1579277844815.png
or
1579277853180.png

Zamazenta @ Choice Band / Life Orb
Ability: Mimicry
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Bolt Beak
- Earthquake / U-turn / Shift Gear
- Photon Geyser
1579278113124.png

1579278201060.png
/
1579278182145.png
or
1579277844815.png
or
1579277853180.png

Darmanitan-Galar-Zen @ Choice Band / Heavy Duty Boots
Ability: Mimicry
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Icicle Crash / U-turn / Shift Gear
- Bolt Beak
- Photon Geyser / Shift Gear

The movesets are chosen to take advantage of as many situations as possible. Outside of terrain, each mon has their base STAB moves, most of which are high powered and spammable. Bolt Beak is there to have a strong STAB move under Electric Terrain while Photon Geyser handles things like Shedinja or Volt Absorb Toxapex and becomes STAB under Psychic Terrain. Choice Band is used for immediate power, but other items can be used if you prefer a setup variant.

Unfortunately the boost from terrains was nerfed, but with Electric Terrain support, Zamazenta hits almost as hard and Darm-GZ hits harder than Choice Band Intrepid Sword Zeraora with Bolt Beak. They trade a little speed, meaning neither outspeed Dragapult and Darm-GZ is slower than Zacian, Zamazenta, and Barraskewa.

I've ran these alongside Electric Surge Zekrom and Choice Specs Lunala, which can Dynamax to give Psychic Terrain support. Wish support helps them last longer and is great in general this generation. The Darm-GZ is interesting to me since it can totally flip the matchup against Primordial Sea Melmetal, which normally checks it well. Unfortunately I don't have any good replays to share at the moment, but will edit them in later (if this idea pans out lol).
+1 252 Atk Choice Band Zeraora Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Melmetal: 313-370 (66 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Melmetal in Electric Terrain: 303-357 (63.9 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Darmanitan-Galar-Zen Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Melmetal in Electric Terrain: 354-417 (74.6 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Seismitoad: 127-151 (30.6 - 36.4%) -- 56.1% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta (STAB) Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad in Psychic Terrain: 276-325 (66.6 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Edit: This replay shows Darm-GZ being checked by FF Melmetal while Ice/Fire-type, but beating it later while Electric-Type.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1048136819
This shows an interesting aspect of the Mimicry/Imposter interaction. Without terrain, Imposters of Mimicry mons revert to the Imposter's base typing, not the opposing mon's typing.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1048107198
Darm-GZ making use of Psychic terrain to OHKO Eternatus
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1050320707-u4e8q4535m5jipt11jhu53zdfevpaqwpw
Darm-GZ pressuring resists and FC Melmetal with STAB Bolt Beak
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1050340670
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top