Just a bit of a bug here. On a Pheromosa set, I tried giving it Savage Spin-Out in place of Megahorn, but when I used SSO, it didn't work and dealt no damage at all. What went wrong?
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BH Balanced Hackmons
- Thread starter E4 Flint
- Start date
Savage spin off is a boosting Z-Move. It uses an item to increase the power of another Z-Move. Without a move to boost, it has 1 BP and does miniscule amounts of damage.
I more than agree that it will resort to being a gimmick. Its only real niche over Rayquaza is that it hits Steel types, as otherwise it doesn't have as much Special Attack, and nowhere near as much Attack. I like Galvanize Zekrom better, as with 150 base attack, it may not hit the hardest, but it still hits very hard. 100/120/100 bulk isn't bad at all, and with Galvanize Extreme Speed/Frustration/Return it can deal potloads of damage. What makes it shine, however, besides 100/120/100 bulk and a resistance to Flying, is the secondary Dragon STAB, meaning it can 2HKO offensive Zygarde Completes (Assuming 252 HP / 4 Defense as EVs defensively) with a 91% chance while using Dragon Hammer. Extreme Speed 2HKOs Mega Rayquaza, while at +1 Return/Frustration 1HKO. Dragon Hammer OHKOs Mega Rayquaza. The safest boosting move for Zekrom is Shift Gear, allowing it to outspeed the entire unboosted metagame after a single Shift Gear, and securing a vastly larger amount of KOs (These two facts that were just listed assume 252+ Attack and 252 Speed), like a guaranteed 2HKO on Stall Zygarde Complete lacking Fur Coat, and another 2HKO on 252 HP Primal Groudon when Stealth Rocks are up. Without rocks, Primal Groudon only has about a 20% chance of being 2HKOd by a +1 Dragon Hammer. The last move can run coverage for Pokémon like Primal Groudon by using Earthquake to secure a 2HKO without rocks at +1 (98.8% chance of 2HKOing it. If it lives, sorry.) or can run Extreme Speed if you used Return/Frustration, to deal with Refrigerate and Pixilate, or Return/Frustration if you used Extreme Speed, to deal with Dazzling/Queens Majesty. However, another more than viable idea is King's Shield, which can force out some people hoping to KO you, and then you can Shift Gear when they switch.
NOTE: All these calculations assume you do NOT have a power boosting item. I personally use a Focus Sash as it provides great utility on Zekrom, and can allow it to bring down some Pokémon that would otherwise defeat it. A Muscle Band is an ACTUAL nice idea on this Zekrom because it gives it just that extra oomph of power to land 2HKOs on certain Pokémon like Primal Groudon, but without the recoil of LO or the locking of Choice Band. Draco Plate could be used, but then your Extreme Speed wouldn't be used. Same thing, but backwards, with Zap Plate.
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Alright, I found a DESTRUCTIVE set with Kartana.
Nature's Revenge (Kartana) @ Life Orb
Ability: Steelworker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Fell Stinger
- Accelerock
- Shift Gear
Here's a replay of me sweeping one guy's team with that Kartana and an Ash-Greninja with Water Bubble: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-484055034
From what I have seen using this menace, KARTANA IS A LORD in Gen 7 BH. BTW Sunsteel Strike / Moongeist Beam ignores Sturdy. (One time, someone was clever and put a Focus Sash on their Sturdy Shedinja to prevent it from being obliterated by Sunsteel Strike / Moongeist Beam one time and then obliterated the Kartana with V-Create.) I was planning on putting Power Whip, but then I was insane and put Fell Stinger for raising the already-high Attack stat on kill and Accelerock for Fire-types. Shift Gear is VERY hard to use successfully, however, because of Kartana's 4X weakness to Fire. You REALLY have to predict those switches to use Shift Gear and then annihilate everything. But yeah, Steelworker Kartana is a GOD. Protean Kartana might be better, but who knows? I use this as a lead and sweeper.
Also, Water Bubble Ash-Greninja:
dat boi (Greninja-Ash) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steam Eruption
- Moongeist Beam
- Blizzard
- Water Shuriken
(obvious nickname is obvious)
First of all, take a look at Ash-Greninja's stats: 72 HP, 145 Atk., 67 Def., 153 SpA., 71 SpD., 132 Speed. When you see these, you know that Ash Greninja is like Kyogre on Red Bull. (Sort of.) Water Bubble buffs Steam Eruption to a MASSIVE base 220 power special move, with STAB making it base 330 power. I'm prepared for everything without an ability that gives a Water immunity to get REKT or at least burnt. No joke, this thing is like Kartana on the Special side: Fast and ultra destructive.
What do you think of my two sets?
Nature's Revenge (Kartana) @ Life Orb
Ability: Steelworker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Fell Stinger
- Accelerock
- Shift Gear
Here's a replay of me sweeping one guy's team with that Kartana and an Ash-Greninja with Water Bubble: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-484055034
From what I have seen using this menace, KARTANA IS A LORD in Gen 7 BH. BTW Sunsteel Strike / Moongeist Beam ignores Sturdy. (One time, someone was clever and put a Focus Sash on their Sturdy Shedinja to prevent it from being obliterated by Sunsteel Strike / Moongeist Beam one time and then obliterated the Kartana with V-Create.) I was planning on putting Power Whip, but then I was insane and put Fell Stinger for raising the already-high Attack stat on kill and Accelerock for Fire-types. Shift Gear is VERY hard to use successfully, however, because of Kartana's 4X weakness to Fire. You REALLY have to predict those switches to use Shift Gear and then annihilate everything. But yeah, Steelworker Kartana is a GOD. Protean Kartana might be better, but who knows? I use this as a lead and sweeper.
Also, Water Bubble Ash-Greninja:
dat boi (Greninja-Ash) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steam Eruption
- Moongeist Beam
- Blizzard
- Water Shuriken
(obvious nickname is obvious)
First of all, take a look at Ash-Greninja's stats: 72 HP, 145 Atk., 67 Def., 153 SpA., 71 SpD., 132 Speed. When you see these, you know that Ash Greninja is like Kyogre on Red Bull. (Sort of.) Water Bubble buffs Steam Eruption to a MASSIVE base 220 power special move, with STAB making it base 330 power. I'm prepared for everything without an ability that gives a Water immunity to get REKT or at least burnt. No joke, this thing is like Kartana on the Special side: Fast and ultra destructive.
What do you think of my two sets?
Nice set, but idk why you have Blizzard over Ice Beam, they both cleanly 2HKO any Zygod sets (252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde: 496-584 (77.9 - 91.8%)), (252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Zygarde: 332-392 (52.2 - 61.6%)) so no Water Absorb zygods can switch in.
e: turns out im bad and the calcs had Protean in it by accident ripp but fixed
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Let's be mean, shall we?
Cosmoem @ Eviolite
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 248 Def / 8 SpD
Calm Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Cotton Guard
- Stored Power
- Soft-Boiled
Cosmoem is already very bulky with 131 defenses, but tack on an Eviolite and you have something magical...and trolly. Thanks to Simple, it takes only one Cotton Guard to max out Cosmoem's Defense, and Quiver Dance is, well, Simple Quiver Dance. Oblivion Wing can heal you quite a bit after a couple of QDs, and Stored Power...well, you can guess the results I've gotten. This thing never dies, and it kills nearly everything in front of it. Except for Dark Types, of course, but that's why I chose Oblivion Wing over Recover.
Cosmoem @ Eviolite
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 248 Def / 8 SpD
Calm Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Cotton Guard
- Stored Power
- Soft-Boiled
Cosmoem is already very bulky with 131 defenses, but tack on an Eviolite and you have something magical...and trolly. Thanks to Simple, it takes only one Cotton Guard to max out Cosmoem's Defense, and Quiver Dance is, well, Simple Quiver Dance. Oblivion Wing can heal you quite a bit after a couple of QDs, and Stored Power...well, you can guess the results I've gotten. This thing never dies, and it kills nearly everything in front of it. Except for Dark Types, of course, but that's why I chose Oblivion Wing over Recover.
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Let's be mean, shall we?
Cosmoem @ Eviolite
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 248 Def / 8 SpD
Calm Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Cotton Guard
- Stored Power
- Soft-Boiled
Cosmoem is already very bulky with 131 defenses, but tack on an Eviolite and you have something magical...and trolly. Thanks to Simple, it takes only one Cotton Guard to max out Cosmoem's Defense, and Quiver Dance is, well, Simple Quiver Dance. Oblivion Wing can heal you quite a bit after a couple of QDs, and Stored Power...well, you can guess the results I've gotten. This thing never dies, and it kills nearly everything in front of it. Except for Dark Types, of course, but that's why I chose Oblivion WIng over Recover.
Here is the problem with Cosmoem: Taunt bait, Imposter bait (Seriously, it has under 50 hp. I'm sure Chansey would love to have 255/131/131 bulk and a STAB Stored power, even with Cosmoems pitiful offenses), complete and utter Spectral Thief bait, 29 Special Attack (Less than SUNKERN!), not to mention many high ladder teams carry an Unaware wall, so even if you hit +6 in every stat you could reach, which is 500 BP, Unaware Mega Audino will be a 3HKO, with 252 HP / 0 Special Defense. And that 3HKO isn't even guaranteed (Sure, 99.5% chance, but that means that 0.5% of the time, it won't even 3HKO!). Mega Audino can just use Spectral Thief turn one and steal your +6 Defense, Special Defense, Special Attack, and Speed and baton pass it to an ally, leaving you dead and easy to sweep, ESPECIALLY if they have Hoopa-U or Shell Smash MM2Y. +6 500 bp Stored Power off of 194/160 Special Attack with STAB will 2HKO 252 HP / 252 Special Defense Assault Vest Unaware Zygarde Complete. Not to mention actually setting up will be horribly hard. After you set up 6x defense, then what? They switch in Sturdinja/Imposter Chansey/Deoxys-Attack (Which still outspeeds you even if you are at +6.)/Water Bubble Primal Kyogre/Unaware Mega Audino/Yvetal/Shell Smash Hoopa U/Zygarde Complete/Regigigas/A thousand other Pokémon/I think I proved my point. This set has merit, but it is on the wrong Pokémon with the wrong ability and the wrong moveset. You are better off with your standard Power Trip/Stored Power/Sunsteel or Moongeist/Shell Smash Dazzling Hoopa-U with a Focus Sash.
Thanks for the input! I'm not used to making my own sets, so I expected to bungle this up SOMEHOW.
Ah well, you live and you learn. You had a nice line of thought though, but someone already beat you to it and got everyone to use Shell Smash Hoopa-U. You can't expect to have brilliance on the first try. Just ask any (sane) person. They'll agree.
I've got a few more sets to show off. All of these Pokemon are on the same team. Please keep in mind that I'm probably terrible at this and would love feedback.
Rotom-Fan @ Leftovers
Ability: Galvanize
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Boomburst
- Cotton Guard
- Baton Pass
- Vacuum Wave
The team I had this on was pretty darn frail, so I wanted a CG Passer. Galvanize Boomburst is probably one of the most destructive unboosted attacks you could ask for, and it hits through Substitute. Vacuum Wave is purely for priority purposes and because I couldn't think of anything else.
Wailord @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Liquidation
- Aqua Jet
- Leech Life
I'll be honest, I think I just made this thing to have something with Water Bubble. Shift Gear lets Wailord outspeed some Grass types and hit them hard with Leech Life, and Aqua Jet/Liquidation can do decent damage thanks to the combination of Shift Gear and Water Bubble. There's probably other Pokemon that can use this set better, though. At least Wailord has a lot of HP.
Crabominable @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Ice Shard
- Power-Up Punch
- Avalanche
- Gear Grind
I just wanted to use Crabominable, okay? I thought a Technician set would be cool, and the Weakness Policy is for all of the things that can kill this guy. I don't really have anything to say about this.
Masquerain @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Oblivion Wing
- Bug Buzz
- Defog
I... have no excuse for this. There are probably so many Pokemon that could do this thing's job better, but sometimes you just have to go "Screw it, let's have some fun." Defog is for removing hazards, and Quiver Dance combined with Life Orb makes both of Masquerain's attacks hit hard. But other than that, you guys could name several Pokemon (probably several Bug/Flying types) that would benefit from this set more.
Guzzlord @ Assault Vest
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Careful Nature
- Dragon Rush
- Payback
- Leech Life
- Heavy Slam
Assault Vest and Fur Coat give this Beast some bulk. Heavy Slam deals with Fairy and Ice Types, Leech Life is reliable recovery, Dragon Rush hits pretty darn hard, and Payback uses Guzzlord's low speed to its advantage.
This set had a Cosmoem, too. Probably gonna keep it on there, though.
Cosmoem @ Eviolite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Topsy-Turvy
- Searing Shot
- Stealth Rock
I made this before I learned about Prankster's nerf. As such, this Cosmoem HATES Dark types. Searing Shot is there over Steam Eruption to kill Bug types that could hurt Cosmoem, and Topsy-Turvy is very useful in this meta. Stealth Rock is there to add another purpose, but this set as a whole is probably mediocre.
Rotom-Fan @ Leftovers
Ability: Galvanize
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Boomburst
- Cotton Guard
- Baton Pass
- Vacuum Wave
The team I had this on was pretty darn frail, so I wanted a CG Passer. Galvanize Boomburst is probably one of the most destructive unboosted attacks you could ask for, and it hits through Substitute. Vacuum Wave is purely for priority purposes and because I couldn't think of anything else.
Wailord @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Liquidation
- Aqua Jet
- Leech Life
I'll be honest, I think I just made this thing to have something with Water Bubble. Shift Gear lets Wailord outspeed some Grass types and hit them hard with Leech Life, and Aqua Jet/Liquidation can do decent damage thanks to the combination of Shift Gear and Water Bubble. There's probably other Pokemon that can use this set better, though. At least Wailord has a lot of HP.
Crabominable @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Ice Shard
- Power-Up Punch
- Avalanche
- Gear Grind
I just wanted to use Crabominable, okay? I thought a Technician set would be cool, and the Weakness Policy is for all of the things that can kill this guy. I don't really have anything to say about this.
Masquerain @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Oblivion Wing
- Bug Buzz
- Defog
I... have no excuse for this. There are probably so many Pokemon that could do this thing's job better, but sometimes you just have to go "Screw it, let's have some fun." Defog is for removing hazards, and Quiver Dance combined with Life Orb makes both of Masquerain's attacks hit hard. But other than that, you guys could name several Pokemon (probably several Bug/Flying types) that would benefit from this set more.
Guzzlord @ Assault Vest
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Careful Nature
- Dragon Rush
- Payback
- Leech Life
- Heavy Slam
Assault Vest and Fur Coat give this Beast some bulk. Heavy Slam deals with Fairy and Ice Types, Leech Life is reliable recovery, Dragon Rush hits pretty darn hard, and Payback uses Guzzlord's low speed to its advantage.
This set had a Cosmoem, too. Probably gonna keep it on there, though.
Cosmoem @ Eviolite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Topsy-Turvy
- Searing Shot
- Stealth Rock
I made this before I learned about Prankster's nerf. As such, this Cosmoem HATES Dark types. Searing Shot is there over Steam Eruption to kill Bug types that could hurt Cosmoem, and Topsy-Turvy is very useful in this meta. Stealth Rock is there to add another purpose, but this set as a whole is probably mediocre.
Maybe you just want to use bad mons, that's cool and all, no harm done, a lot of people want to use bad mons, it can be fun to some extent. But if everyone posted every gimmick they ever ran on the thread it would be cluttered with shit.I've got a few more sets to show off. All of these Pokemon are on the same team. Please keep in mind that I'm probably terrible at this and would love feedback.
Rotom-Fan @ Leftovers
Ability: Galvanize
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Boomburst
- Cotton Guard
- Baton Pass
- Vacuum Wave
The team I had this on was pretty darn frail, so I wanted a CG Passer. Galvanize Boomburst is probably one of the most destructive unboosted attacks you could ask for, and it hits through Substitute. Vacuum Wave is purely for priority purposes and because I couldn't think of anything else.
Wailord @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Liquidation
- Aqua Jet
- Leech Life
I'll be honest, I think I just made this thing to have something with Water Bubble. Shift Gear lets Wailord outspeed some Grass types and hit them hard with Leech Life, and Aqua Jet/Liquidation can do decent damage thanks to the combination of Shift Gear and Water Bubble. There's probably other Pokemon that can use this set better, though. At least Wailord has a lot of HP.
Crabominable @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Ice Shard
- Power-Up Punch
- Avalanche
- Gear Grind
I just wanted to use Crabominable, okay? I thought a Technician set would be cool, and the Weakness Policy is for all of the things that can kill this guy. I don't really have anything to say about this.
Masquerain @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Oblivion Wing
- Bug Buzz
- Defog
I... have no excuse for this. There are probably so many Pokemon that could do this thing's job better, but sometimes you just have to go "Screw it, let's have some fun." Defog is for removing hazards, and Quiver Dance combined with Life Orb makes both of Masquerain's attacks hit hard. But other than that, you guys could name several Pokemon (probably several Bug/Flying types) that would benefit from this set more.
Guzzlord @ Assault Vest
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Careful Nature
- Dragon Rush
- Payback
- Leech Life
- Heavy Slam
Assault Vest and Fur Coat give this Beast some bulk. Heavy Slam deals with Fairy and Ice Types, Leech Life is reliable recovery, Dragon Rush hits pretty darn hard, and Payback uses Guzzlord's low speed to its advantage.
This set had a Cosmoem, too. Probably gonna keep it on there, though.
Cosmoem @ Eviolite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Topsy-Turvy
- Searing Shot
- Stealth Rock
I made this before I learned about Prankster's nerf. As such, this Cosmoem HATES Dark types. Searing Shot is there over Steam Eruption to kill Bug types that could hurt Cosmoem, and Topsy-Turvy is very useful in this meta. Stealth Rock is there to add another purpose, but this set as a whole is probably mediocre.
You know the mons are bad, you say so yourself. So idk what kind of feedback you're expecting beside "those mons are bad". If you want a quick advice, it's generally safe to assume that mons with higher bst total (legends and megas) will be better in BH. So take those same sets and put them on good, or at least decent mons. Then maybe you'll get proper feedback.
Anyway, nothing against you dude, you're obviously new and that's cool, good luck on your BH adventure or smt, but if you know something is bad, why do you post it?
I've got a few more sets to show off. All of these Pokemon are on the same team. Please keep in mind that I'm probably terrible at this and would love feedback.
Rotom-Fan @ Leftovers
Ability: Galvanize
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Boomburst
- Cotton Guard
- Baton Pass
- Vacuum Wave
The team I had this on was pretty darn frail, so I wanted a CG Passer. Galvanize Boomburst is probably one of the most destructive unboosted attacks you could ask for, and it hits through Substitute. Vacuum Wave is purely for priority purposes and because I couldn't think of anything else.
Wailord @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Liquidation
- Aqua Jet
- Leech Life
I'll be honest, I think I just made this thing to have something with Water Bubble. Shift Gear lets Wailord outspeed some Grass types and hit them hard with Leech Life, and Aqua Jet/Liquidation can do decent damage thanks to the combination of Shift Gear and Water Bubble. There's probably other Pokemon that can use this set better, though. At least Wailord has a lot of HP.
Crabominable @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Ice Shard
- Power-Up Punch
- Avalanche
- Gear Grind
I just wanted to use Crabominable, okay? I thought a Technician set would be cool, and the Weakness Policy is for all of the things that can kill this guy. I don't really have anything to say about this.
Masquerain @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Oblivion Wing
- Bug Buzz
- Defog
I... have no excuse for this. There are probably so many Pokemon that could do this thing's job better, but sometimes you just have to go "Screw it, let's have some fun." Defog is for removing hazards, and Quiver Dance combined with Life Orb makes both of Masquerain's attacks hit hard. But other than that, you guys could name several Pokemon (probably several Bug/Flying types) that would benefit from this set more.
Guzzlord @ Assault Vest
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Careful Nature
- Dragon Rush
- Payback
- Leech Life
- Heavy Slam
Assault Vest and Fur Coat give this Beast some bulk. Heavy Slam deals with Fairy and Ice Types, Leech Life is reliable recovery, Dragon Rush hits pretty darn hard, and Payback uses Guzzlord's low speed to its advantage.
This set had a Cosmoem, too. Probably gonna keep it on there, though.
Cosmoem @ Eviolite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Topsy-Turvy
- Searing Shot
- Stealth Rock
I made this before I learned about Prankster's nerf. As such, this Cosmoem HATES Dark types. Searing Shot is there over Steam Eruption to kill Bug types that could hurt Cosmoem, and Topsy-Turvy is very useful in this meta. Stealth Rock is there to add another purpose, but this set as a whole is probably mediocre.
Rotom-Fan:
It's okay if you want a CG Baton Passer, but Lugia is much more useful something like this:
Lugia @ Power Herb
Ability: Simple
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stored Power
- Cotton Guard
- Geomancy
- Baton Pass
If you're insistent on an Electric Galvanize, it's better to use Zekrom for its better stats, especially paired with FakeSpeed.
Wailord:
This thing is wholly outclassed by POgre:
Kyogre-Primal @ Choice Scarf / Choice Specs / Life Orb
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout / Steam Eruption
- Volt Switch / Parting Shot
- Oceanic Operetta
- Ice Beam
Wailord has good HP but is much too frail to be viable. It's best with Innards Out to stop setup sweepers.
Crabominable:
This is also outclassed by MMX:
Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Choice Band / Choice Scarf / Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Storm Throw
- Gear Grind
- Bonemerang
- Ice Shard
Crabominable just doesn't have the stats or typing to be viable in BH.
Masquerain: I'm not going to cover this one. Just use Oblivion Wing + Tail Glow + Substitute Mega-Rayquaza.
Guzzlord: Zygarde-Complete does a much better job at being a bulky physical sweeper:
Zygarde-Complete @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Atk
Careful Nature
- Shift Gear
- Substitute / Shore Up
- Thousand Arrows
- Ice Punch
Even with an Assault Vest Guzzlord is very weak to Boomburst Pixilate.
Cosmoem: This has good defenses but not enough HP to go with it. Bulky Steel types like Registeel and Aegislash are better choices.
As you keep playing BH you will see good sets. Just practice and you'll get better!
Thank you to everyone that's given me advice so far. I know that there are plenty of Pokemon in Ubers and OU that shine brighter than anything else in BH, but that just seems so...annoying and repetitive to me. I want to use Pokemon that would normally be ignored or outclassed. In a meta where nearly every Pokemon can be viable in some way, I want to be original with my choices. Basically, I prefer treating this less like a tiered sort of thing and more of an excuse to use nearly any Pokemon I can think of. Granted, I'm still gonna play to win with these, but for the most part I wanna be different. So maybe instead of replacing the Pokemon on my team, can anyone give me advice on how to work with the mons I've displayed? I'd greatly appreciate it.
Unfortunately the opposite is true. Not every Pokemon can be viable in BH, just like not every Pokemon can be viable in OU, etc. This is a tier like any other tier - not a place to show that you are "different" because you want to use not very-viable-Pokemon. Some of us could probably show you a passable team with some of those Pokemon, but the team probably wouldn't make it out of low / mid ladder, to be honest.
My suggestion would be to follow the norm until you know what you're doing. Don't try to be innovative / different until you've actually played the tier for a whole lot of time. Many of us would love to help you, but please don't go into BH thinking its a place where "every pokemon is viable", as it really isn't such.
If you would like someone to help you learn the ropes, I'd love to teach you and if you would like to take me up on this offer - just send me a DM here on the forums. Anyhow, sorry if this came off a bit harsh, we're all pretty nice here really.
I do know how to play BH, and I do have teams with some Pokemon you'd expect to see, but I don't really care about ladder placement or anything like that. I'm just here to have fun with my options. If you can think of strategies for the Pokemon I've already displayed, then I would be very grateful. And no, you weren't harsh. ^u^
The bug with Assist calling Z Moves has been corrected. Proof here
rip my assist creations in two successive gens
I've found, stolen, and tested something entirely disgusting that should never happen, and so...
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-485754159
Petition to ban Harvest from G7BH ASAP, or at least the ability to Leppa Z-Moves.
Yes, I know this means I won't be able to use Fck 2 u anymore. I don't want to, it's almost as cancerous as Sash Deo-Ax6 teams. I've simply used it here to showcase how entirely disgusting it is. Not to mention that if two people using this strat meet and both of the users end up on the field at the same time, it activates Endless Battle Clause, which is another can of worms because one way or another, someone's getting dicked in that equation despite the fact that in no way is it an endless battle because basically the Pokemon's entire moveset is nuke moves.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-485779912
You know, like this.
I would say this in chat, but my new Showdown name has yet to hit being a week old, so I'm not allowed to talk in the chats about it.
Also note that using the Leppa the user does start with triggers the notice of using a Leppa it supposedly did not start with as well.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-485754159
Petition to ban Harvest from G7BH ASAP, or at least the ability to Leppa Z-Moves.
Yes, I know this means I won't be able to use Fck 2 u anymore. I don't want to, it's almost as cancerous as Sash Deo-Ax6 teams. I've simply used it here to showcase how entirely disgusting it is. Not to mention that if two people using this strat meet and both of the users end up on the field at the same time, it activates Endless Battle Clause, which is another can of worms because one way or another, someone's getting dicked in that equation despite the fact that in no way is it an endless battle because basically the Pokemon's entire moveset is nuke moves.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-485779912
You know, like this.
I would say this in chat, but my new Showdown name has yet to hit being a week old, so I'm not allowed to talk in the chats about it.
Also note that using the Leppa the user does start with triggers the notice of using a Leppa it supposedly did not start with as well.
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First of all: yeah, that endless battle clause should not activate
But also use soul stealing 7 star strike not sinister arrow raid
On the physical side this seems pretty good too, with pulverizing, moonsault, catastropika and one other move. Not sure if it's broken, but that endless battle bug needs to be fixed.
But also use soul stealing 7 star strike not sinister arrow raid
On the physical side this seems pretty good too, with pulverizing, moonsault, catastropika and one other move. Not sure if it's broken, but that endless battle bug needs to be fixed.
While you make a good point, I wouldn't say a replay of you dumpstering a guy with a not-so-stellar team of Alolan starters suffices as solid evidence. Personally, I find Z-Move spam to be very annoying + effective but not to the point where I'd want a ban. Not to mention there are some decent switch-ins out there such as Regenvest Zygod or TTar (if you're lacking Sacred Sword or w/e).
e: also ya use Soul-Stealing 7-Star strike over Sinister Arrow Raid like thesecondbest mentioned, its objectively better
I thought SSSSS was also physical but eh
Might actually replace it with moonsault so that I can actually hit the likes of non imposter Chansey Line for more than fuck all (even if it's usually a trap).
Scarfnaut this is a subpar execution anyway. Imagine if, say, I passed a Z-Geomancy to this fucker. Just lead with that while the enemy likely sets up, and suddenly you have a monster. In fact, you were saying AV Zygarde Complete? After being passed a Z-Geomancy of the Simple variety...
+6 252+ SpA Mewtwo-Mega-Y Genesis Supernova vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Zygarde: 894-1053 (125.2 - 147.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(894, 904, 915, 925, 936, 946, 957, 967, 978, 988, 999, 1009, 1020, 1030, 1041, 1053)
OOPS. This calc does in fact factor in Zygarde Complete's 216 base HP (entered manually because S/M Calculator still doesnt list the mon outright). Literally no Zygarde-Complete can take that, and the likes of Oceanic Opretta still delivers a solid chance of a oneshot:
+6 252+ SpA Mewtwo-Mega-Y Oceanic Operetta vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Zygarde: 628-739 (87.9 - 103.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
(628, 635, 642, 650, 657, 665, 672, 679, 687, 694, 702, 709, 716, 724, 731, 739)
TTar will outright die to it unless TTar is carrying Sucker Punch to outspeed, given that PsyTerrain isn't around for whatever reason:
+6 252+ SpA Mewtwo-Mega-Y Oceanic Operetta vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar-Mega: 714-840 (176.7 - 207.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(714, 722, 730, 738, 746, 756, 764, 772, 780, 788, 798, 806, 814, 822, 830, 840)
Just for an idea of the level of power we're discussing, a max power normal Kyogre's Water Spout needs Specs and Water Bubble and Rocks to get a guaranteed oneshot on Evio Chanse with Water Bubble. A Simple Z-Geomancy passed version of this, however?
+6 252+ SpA Mewtwo-Mega-Y Genesis Supernova vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Chansey: 835-984 (118.6 - 139.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(835, 846, 855, 865, 874, 885, 894, 904, 915, 924, 934, 943, 954, 963, 973, 984)
RIP IN PEPPERONI.
Furthermore, bug or no, a mirror of this strat can trigger EBC if either side fails to OHKO, which can both dash the victim's chance of an actual comeback or dick the user out of an actual win. That's most of my problem with it-the difficulty of pivoting.
If we're still not convinced, then one might notice the checks made by TTar and Zygarde Complete are more solid if MegaTwo has less to choose from. Perhaps simply a limit on how many Z-Moves one can put in the moveslots would make this less threatening.
As for what I said about Zygarde Complete earlier?
Point made.
Might actually replace it with moonsault so that I can actually hit the likes of non imposter Chansey Line for more than fuck all (even if it's usually a trap).
Scarfnaut this is a subpar execution anyway. Imagine if, say, I passed a Z-Geomancy to this fucker. Just lead with that while the enemy likely sets up, and suddenly you have a monster. In fact, you were saying AV Zygarde Complete? After being passed a Z-Geomancy of the Simple variety...
+6 252+ SpA Mewtwo-Mega-Y Genesis Supernova vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Zygarde: 894-1053 (125.2 - 147.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(894, 904, 915, 925, 936, 946, 957, 967, 978, 988, 999, 1009, 1020, 1030, 1041, 1053)
OOPS. This calc does in fact factor in Zygarde Complete's 216 base HP (entered manually because S/M Calculator still doesnt list the mon outright). Literally no Zygarde-Complete can take that, and the likes of Oceanic Opretta still delivers a solid chance of a oneshot:
+6 252+ SpA Mewtwo-Mega-Y Oceanic Operetta vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Zygarde: 628-739 (87.9 - 103.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
(628, 635, 642, 650, 657, 665, 672, 679, 687, 694, 702, 709, 716, 724, 731, 739)
TTar will outright die to it unless TTar is carrying Sucker Punch to outspeed, given that PsyTerrain isn't around for whatever reason:
+6 252+ SpA Mewtwo-Mega-Y Oceanic Operetta vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar-Mega: 714-840 (176.7 - 207.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(714, 722, 730, 738, 746, 756, 764, 772, 780, 788, 798, 806, 814, 822, 830, 840)
Just for an idea of the level of power we're discussing, a max power normal Kyogre's Water Spout needs Specs and Water Bubble and Rocks to get a guaranteed oneshot on Evio Chanse with Water Bubble. A Simple Z-Geomancy passed version of this, however?
+6 252+ SpA Mewtwo-Mega-Y Genesis Supernova vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Chansey: 835-984 (118.6 - 139.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(835, 846, 855, 865, 874, 885, 894, 904, 915, 924, 934, 943, 954, 963, 973, 984)
RIP IN PEPPERONI.
Furthermore, bug or no, a mirror of this strat can trigger EBC if either side fails to OHKO, which can both dash the victim's chance of an actual comeback or dick the user out of an actual win. That's most of my problem with it-the difficulty of pivoting.
If we're still not convinced, then one might notice the checks made by TTar and Zygarde Complete are more solid if MegaTwo has less to choose from. Perhaps simply a limit on how many Z-Moves one can put in the moveslots would make this less threatening.
As for what I said about Zygarde Complete earlier?
Point made.
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... Could we avoid being so confident when disagreeing with one of the best BH players? because while this strategy seems decent, it does have major flaws:
1/ Unreliable: you only have 50% chance to get the leppa back
2/ Not actually working against a good set high ladder (from what i have heard) which is water absorb tytar, designed to take on deoxys and kyogre
3/ Dealing massive damage isn't enough in BH. Things like tinted lance banded blaziken where immensely powerful last gen, while being decent at best. Finding setup opportunities isnt always easy, and unaware is everywhere
4/ Imposter(and shed i guess)! imposter get an easy kill on any of your mons, whilst still having a move to blow away sthing else. there could be ways around it (like Wabsorb tytar), but it is still forced out. It was the issue with pdon last gen:it was hindered by how it lacked counters to imposterproof
In addition, there is no evidence that a set using regular attacks (because +whatev psychic terrain boosted psystrike is blowing most things away anyway) and being able to abuse focus sash/goggles to """imposterproof""" wouldn't be better.
On an other note, could someone summarize how the meta has been shaping/post other teams (IT11's are great tho)?Is there any major suspects/quickban planned? (I admittedly have mostly been focussed on Doubles recently)
Also, Doubles BH sounds incredibly fun this gen, with Dark Void gone and new things like receiver, soul heart, psychic surve and instruct, having seemingly great potential(soul heart may actually be broken as sh** seeing how good it was in DOU).
1/ Unreliable: you only have 50% chance to get the leppa back
2/ Not actually working against a good set high ladder (from what i have heard) which is water absorb tytar, designed to take on deoxys and kyogre
3/ Dealing massive damage isn't enough in BH. Things like tinted lance banded blaziken where immensely powerful last gen, while being decent at best. Finding setup opportunities isnt always easy, and unaware is everywhere
4/ Imposter(and shed i guess)! imposter get an easy kill on any of your mons, whilst still having a move to blow away sthing else. there could be ways around it (like Wabsorb tytar), but it is still forced out. It was the issue with pdon last gen:it was hindered by how it lacked counters to imposterproof
In addition, there is no evidence that a set using regular attacks (because +whatev psychic terrain boosted psystrike is blowing most things away anyway) and being able to abuse focus sash/goggles to """imposterproof""" wouldn't be better.
On an other note, could someone summarize how the meta has been shaping/post other teams (IT11's are great tho)?Is there any major suspects/quickban planned? (I admittedly have mostly been focussed on Doubles recently)
Also, Doubles BH sounds incredibly fun this gen, with Dark Void gone and new things like receiver, soul heart, psychic surve and instruct, having seemingly great potential(soul heart may actually be broken as sh** seeing how good it was in DOU).
Guys this mon is borked because if I pass it +6 spa, +6 spd, +6 spe, +2 def and +2 atk then it can sweep... do I have a point yet?
I'm sorry mate, you're arguing about something that actually is a pretty trendy subject right now, and a lot of people do actually think z-moves as a whole are broken. But the way you go about arguing that point is legitimately hilarious. The way you drop random "oops" and "rip" sprinkled in with your completely unrealistic calcs and then confidently end with "Point made" linking to a subpar replay is absolutely perfect.
If should ever choose the "post that matches the poster's avatar the best", it would easily be this one. In fact I screenshoted the whole thing, printed it on picture paper and wrapped it up for my Mum's Christmas present.
Anyway, regarding what CallMeLefty has to say:
1/ Unreliable? Not really, you have 4 moves and one Leppa berry and you rarely need to use the same move twice, so you'll more often than not have the pp you need for the move you need. I battled this strat multiple times high ladder, in fact someone was chilling at #3 for quite a while using this and every time I battled him pp almost never came to being an issue. So yeah, from experience, I wouldn't say it's unreliable in the slightest.
2/ That's one mon that isn't particularly common as far as I know... and it gets 2HKOd by 10,000,000Volt anyway.
3/ Ok that made no sense. Tinted Blazking is slow (like really slow), frail, and incredibly easy to revenge kill. Mmy is chilling with 140 base speed, Psychic terrain almost always up because of Genesis supernova (and the prevalence of psychic terrain anyway), has incredible coverage, can switch moves, doesn't give 2 shits about unaware and actually hits harder than psychic surge mmy.
252 SpA Mewtwo-Mega-Y 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Yveltal on a critical hit: 632-744 (138.5 - 163.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mewtwo-Mega-Y Genesis Supernova vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino-Mega: 378-445 (92.1 - 108.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
Yeah wow, nice Unaware there.
252 SpA Mewtwo-Mega-Y 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Solgaleo on a critical hit: 224-264 (46.8 - 55.2%)
252 SpA Life Orb Mewtwo-Mega-Y Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Solgaleo: 200-237 (41.8 - 49.5%)
Yeah leppa mmy does more on a neutral hit than life orb mmy does on a super effective one... "hitting hard isn't enough in BH"
4/ Chansey doesn't carry a leppa berry, making imposterproofing way easier.
Anyway I kinda don't want to make a long post or argue right now because I ordered a pizza and I'm about to watch Bebop, but IT11 made quite a lengthy post saying that z-moves are busted with good arguments, ladder peak and relevant replays, a bunch of ppl agreed, and then... nothing? The argument just kinda stopped for no reason.
Don't be too harsh on Arandomnoob, he's obviously a cool dude and even if he didn't present his point very well doesn't mean you have to disagree with him "cuz ur good and he's just a noob that doesn't know how to plai around dis". He has a point.
I'm sorry mate, you're arguing about something that actually is a pretty trendy subject right now, and a lot of people do actually think z-moves as a whole are broken. But the way you go about arguing that point is legitimately hilarious. The way you drop random "oops" and "rip" sprinkled in with your completely unrealistic calcs and then confidently end with "Point made" linking to a subpar replay is absolutely perfect.
If should ever choose the "post that matches the poster's avatar the best", it would easily be this one. In fact I screenshoted the whole thing, printed it on picture paper and wrapped it up for my Mum's Christmas present.
Anyway, regarding what CallMeLefty has to say:
1/ Unreliable? Not really, you have 4 moves and one Leppa berry and you rarely need to use the same move twice, so you'll more often than not have the pp you need for the move you need. I battled this strat multiple times high ladder, in fact someone was chilling at #3 for quite a while using this and every time I battled him pp almost never came to being an issue. So yeah, from experience, I wouldn't say it's unreliable in the slightest.
2/ That's one mon that isn't particularly common as far as I know... and it gets 2HKOd by 10,000,000Volt anyway.
3/ Ok that made no sense. Tinted Blazking is slow (like really slow), frail, and incredibly easy to revenge kill. Mmy is chilling with 140 base speed, Psychic terrain almost always up because of Genesis supernova (and the prevalence of psychic terrain anyway), has incredible coverage, can switch moves, doesn't give 2 shits about unaware and actually hits harder than psychic surge mmy.
252 SpA Mewtwo-Mega-Y 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Yveltal on a critical hit: 632-744 (138.5 - 163.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mewtwo-Mega-Y Genesis Supernova vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino-Mega: 378-445 (92.1 - 108.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
Yeah wow, nice Unaware there.
252 SpA Mewtwo-Mega-Y 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Solgaleo on a critical hit: 224-264 (46.8 - 55.2%)
252 SpA Life Orb Mewtwo-Mega-Y Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Solgaleo: 200-237 (41.8 - 49.5%)
Yeah leppa mmy does more on a neutral hit than life orb mmy does on a super effective one... "hitting hard isn't enough in BH"
4/ Chansey doesn't carry a leppa berry, making imposterproofing way easier.
Anyway I kinda don't want to make a long post or argue right now because I ordered a pizza and I'm about to watch Bebop, but IT11 made quite a lengthy post saying that z-moves are busted with good arguments, ladder peak and relevant replays, a bunch of ppl agreed, and then... nothing? The argument just kinda stopped for no reason.
Don't be too harsh on Arandomnoob, he's obviously a cool dude and even if he didn't present his point very well doesn't mean you have to disagree with him "cuz ur good and he's just a noob that doesn't know how to plai around dis". He has a point.
I mean I chose this username ages ago (like around mayyyybe 4 or so years back) and I'm not a he but this can be played around if your Water Bubble PKyo has Scarf (instead of Specs as it would much rather have) and a Z-Mancy hasn't been passed. My point with bringing Z-Mancy into the picture was someone mentioned "Oh hey this Zygarde-Complete should be able to take it" so I proposed a counterscenario where said "check" loses outright. I was presented with a point so I presented a counterpoint. Sure, said counterpoint is hilariously fucking overkill, but so it is.
On an unrelated note, Arceus isnt being typed correctly. A mon teambuilt as arceus fairy is still normal typed in battle.
On an unrelated note, Arceus isnt being typed correctly. A mon teambuilt as arceus fairy is still normal typed in battle.
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That's how it worked last gen. You need the ability multitype to change type.
Huh. It's not all that terrifying honestly it just makes fucking with them with MGar a bit more annoying, anyway. I guess last gen just didn't give people much reason to go for other Abilities as I don't recall seeing the phenomenon in G6BH at all. Welp, TIL I guess.