no reqs ill just survive to round 7 in tour thanks
anyways if i do survive, i will be voting DNB DNB DNB, and here's why
(copypasted from Discord)
1. Uncompetitiveness - elements that reduce the effect of player choice / interaction on the end result to an extreme degree, such that "more skillful play" is almost always rendered irrelevant.
I think we all agree that Espeon is not uncompetitive, as there is next to 0 luck involved with Espeon other than potential crit fishing in CM wars.
2. Broken - elements that are too good relative to the rest of the metagame such that "more skillful play" is almost always rendered irrelevant.
We do have counterplay (Parting Shot, Tera Steel Pokemon, Tera Dark Pokemon, Dragon Tail, etc). It isn't a brainless sweeper like Espathra where you just get in once behind screens or something and start CMing and just running away with Stored Power and OHKO everything, Espeon actually needs to be positioned correctly and still doesn't get the OHKOs, you need to actually manage your health and work on wearing down counterplay before you can finally sweep at which it's just like any sweeper in which if you successfuly wear down counterplay, you win the game. It is not that elevated above Koraidon for example, in terms of the meta, I still think Espeon is not top 3.
3. Unhealthy - elements that are neither uncompetitive nor broken yet are deemed undesirable for the metagame such that they inhibit "skillful play" to a large extent.
I think this is the main point of contention. So let's talk about. I think one of Soda's main points is that Espeon is restricting in the teambuilder. So let's talk about how the Espeon checks aren't that hard to fit.
Parting Shot users: Alolan Persian, Morgrem, Morpeko
Alolan Persian is really good, and I rate it extremely highly. It easily tanks an Alluring Voice (+1 252 SpA Tera Fairy Espeon Alluring Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Persian-Alola: 314-372 (67.6 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, +1 0 SpA Espeon Alluring Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Persian-Alola: 172-204 (37 - 43.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO, etc) and Parting Shots to force Espeon on (notably forcing it to take more hazard chip when it comes in later)
(Tera) Dark-types/Steel-types: Tera Dark Dondozo, Tera Dark Clodsire, Tera Steel Galarian Weezing, Zacian-Crowned, Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, Metagross
Tera Dark is good on Unaware Pokemon in general, as Stored Power in general is a nuisance, not just from Espeon. Tera Steel is just always a decent Tera, while Zacian, NDM, and Metagross are just generally solid offensive threats that aren't hard to fit at all (especially Zac).and before I go over offensive threats, let's talk about Espeon's inability to run everything at once. It can theoretically beat many of its checks (i.e. Tera Fairy to stop Dragon Tail and boost Alluring Voice, Tera Fire Tera Blast to nail Steel-types), but the most important thing is, it can't run everything at once, Espeon is not a quantum Pokemon. It has to choose between Fire/Fairy for tera type, some Psychic move (typically Stored Power but sometimes Psychic Noise for more immediate power), Alluring Voice for Darks, Tera Blast for Steels, and Morning Sun for longevity. Dropping Alluring Voice lets Alolan Persian freely Parting Shot and Tera Dark Unaware just completely wall you, dropping Tera Blast leavs you completely stonewalled by Zac/NDM/Metagross/Tera Steel unless your opponent just really fucks up by letting you boost to a billion, and dropping Morning Sun means that offensively checking you is way easier because you can't heal off damage anymore. Then, EV-investment wise, you want to be fast to outspeed Galarian Weezing's Haze, you want to be invested in HP/Defense for physical bulk since you can't boost Defense, and you want Special Attack investment to do damage without being boosted by a billion. You can't do all of those things at once.
Lastly, Offensive Threats: Flutter Mane, Koraidon, Ursaluna-BM, etc
Flutter Mane's CM + Shadow Ball does way too much damage to you, Koraidon's Tera Fire Flare Blitz just nukes you and flips the 4x weakness to Alluring Voice to a resistance, Ursaluna-BM can be physical SD and just smack you with Headlong Rush, and numerous other threats exist.
Generally, I think that Espeon needs to be prepared for, just like any other threat, but you don't need to prepare for it specifically. Needing to prepare for something doesn't make it warping in the teambuilder. One extreme is Imposter in Balanced Hackmons (games live and die by improofing), but I think a more direct comparison is Mega Alakazam in Gen 7 OU. It can theoretically beat everything with a billion different coverage types - which is why it's banned in Gen 7 Draft, but it's considered balanced by OU standards, since while it
can beat everything in theory, it can't do that without sacrificing other matchups, and while you need to prepare for it and you could call a team extremely Alakazam-weak bad, that doesn't make it broken - it's just another option you need to prepare for. Another analogy is Iron Valiant in Gen 9 OU: it can be special, physical, mixed, Encore Destiny Bond, and it has coverage to hit like 99% of OU super-effectively. But it's not broken because it can't run everything at once. Just because it beats everything in theory doesn't mean it does in practice.
I think Koraidon is extremely strong and has decent set diversity (scarf, band, sun setter, SD). However, it's almost always still stopped by Toxapex, and extremely hard (offensively) checked by Flutter Mane, which it enables to be better through setting up Sun. Unless you run scarf, you're constantly enabling one of the best Pokemon in the format to counter you even better by always being faster. Toxapex is also always a good check, Weezing-Galar can easily Strange Steam/Will-o-Wisp you until you commit to your Tera, and there are even more checks like Deoxys (offensively) and Deoxys-Defense (defensively). There's enough bulk in this meta going around where Koraidon rarely gets the OHKOs (or even 2HKOs sometimes) it wants, which is enough to make it not broken in my eyes.
This is the least good of the three in my eyes, and is not even close to warranting a ban. It has extreme 4MSS (Iron Defense, Body Press, Stealth Rock, Spikes, Roost, Whirlwind, Taunt, Brave Bird, [Swords Dance]), and you can't run everything all at once. It can be annoying, but once you figure out its whole set, it's extremely easy to play around and just not being majorly hazards-weak is more than enough to stave off the onslaught if you're the better player. By far not broken, it's just another tool that can work in the hands of a good player.
