Ash-Greninja Discussion

Maestro Arena

Maestro Arena

greninja-ash.jpg



Greninja base stats: 72/95/67/103/71/122
Ash-Greninja stats: 72/145/67/153/71/132

Ability: Battle Bond (When Greninja faints an opponent Pokemon, it becomes Ash-Greninja. Water Shuriken power is doubled).

Edit: Ash-Greninja not locked to Hardy
[09:54:27] <+Djura> http://i.imgur.com/qxbc650.jpg?2
[09:55:18] <Marty> yeah, the transfer is done via Mystery Gift this time instead of Pokemon Link, so you can reset for whatever
 
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The fact he needs to knock out someone to evolve makes it tricky. But the Water shuriken power is good.

I think Protean Greninja will still dominate.
 
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Apparently, it's actually not Hardy-locked.

The whole matter is still "Really hard-hitting STABs vs Hard-hitting coverage". I'd prefer the latter. There are already enough wallbreakers that can do the former, while the latter is practically something only Protean Greninja can boast.
 
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Siggu said:
Apparently, it's actually not Hardy-locked.

The whole matter is still "Really hard-hitting STABs vs Hard-hitting coverage". I'd prefer the latter. There are still enough wallbreakers that can do the former, while the latter is practically something only Protean Greninja can boast.
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What? Where is that coming from?
 
Siggu said:
The resource thread mentions it: http://i.imgur.com/qxbc650.jpg?2
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And we are sure this isn't code manipulated to get it?

Hytheter said:
Is it definitely doubled? That'd be a minimum power of 60, average 90, up to 150. On a priority move.

Surely that can't be right...
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Well you do need to kill someone first before you can get access to it, is if you play right and never give grenjina a KO you will never have to face the threat.

Still, Bulky water types would probably be Ash Greninja's best counter, someone that could then retailite to take out the weak defense wise greninja
 
It'll mostly be a niche, as protean ninja still out-damages it except on water/dark moves. But the most disappointing thing is that you need to knock out 1 mon to transform, so before that you are left with piss-weak battle bond greninja.
Moreover, does it revert back to normal form on switching?
 
zferolie said:
And we are sure this isn't code manipulated to get it?



Well you do need to kill someone first before you can get access to it, is if you play right and never give grenjina a KO you will never have to face the threat.

Still, Bulky water types would probably be Ash Greninja's best counter, someone that could then retailite to take out the weak defense wise greninja
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That aspect could actually end up working in Ash-Greninja's favor, as its mere presence forces the opponent to switch out a mon in KO range, as sacking it for the clean switch isn't really an option.
 
Big thing going for Ash-Greninja is it outspeeds Marshadow, while regular Greninja does not.
 
jackgraves said:
Yeah. We know that the Demo has been manipulated before, and it seems very unlikely that almost everyone would get the same Nature if it were random.
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It's not locked because of the way it's received in sumo as a wonder card gift so you can stand in front of the delivery person and reset for nature. IVs and EVs however are locked to what they were in the demo version also its level is reset to 36. So essentially what you're getting in sumo is a new battle bond greninja from a wonder card sent via the demo.
 
Nexus said:
It's not locked because of the way it's received in sumo as a wonder card gift so you can stand in front of the delivery person and reset for nature. IVs and EVs however are locked to what they were in the demo version also its level is reset to 36. So essentially what you're getting in sumo is a new battle bond greninja from a wonder card sent via the demo.
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Ah that's cool. So what would be the best nature you think for an Ash Greninja
 
Nexus said:
It's not locked because of the way it's received in sumo as a wonder card gift so you can stand in front of the delivery person and reset for nature. IVs and EVs however are locked to what they were in the demo version also its level is reset to 36. So essentially what you're getting in sumo is a new battle bond greninja from a wonder card sent via the demo.
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Ah, fantastic. I was not aware it was treated as an Event like that. I figured it was like Glalie/Steelix from the ORAS demo and would be sent over as is.

zferolie said:
Ah that's cool. So what would be the best nature you think for an Ash Greninja
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Timid will be a likely choice, since it has to rely more on Water/Dark STAB than Protean variants do, so Dark Pulse / Hydro Pump (or Surf or maybe U-Turn) / Ice Beam / Water Shuriken seems like a plausible set. Still, maybe Naive so all that Attack doesn't have to go to waste...
 
Ok, since it's not nature locked, i can see this make OU easily with it being able to hold Life Orb and having 145/153/132 offences. Activating Battle Bond could be tricky but would be the reason for it not going to Uber.
 
Something super important to note is that the IV lock makes HP Fire illegal unless Hyper Training provides a way to lower IVs. Combined with the likely lack of Tutors, Ash-Greninja will actually have consistent answers.
 
Well, iirc, it is confirmed that it will not be tiered together with Greninja, meaning that OU Ash-Greninja can be a thing

Lack of ORAS move tutors, HP-Fire and Egg moves is going to make it tricky for Greninja, proably only using dual-STAB + Special coverage/Physiscal coverage/Water Shuriken/Work Up

I can see BB Greninja being a good Z-Move user, pretty much having a guaranteed transformation with a 185 Power Hydro Vortex or a 160 Power Black Hole Eclipse
 
Ability: Battle Bond (When Greninja faints an opponent Pokemon, it becomes Ash-Greninja. Water Shuriken power is doubled).
so water shuriken has 30 base power and its a multi hit move with a priority, if u equip it with specs and a modest nature let me do a calc, considering eviolite nerf
252+ SpA Choice Specs Greninja Water Shuriken (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Chansey: 365-435 (51.8 - 61.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
that is some insane power, i pick modest because its strongest attack is getting a priority so no need for extra speed imo


 
darksylvion said:
Moreover, does it revert back to normal form on switching?
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No, it retains its transformation, as the demo shows us.

Regarding Ash-Greninja, I have to agree that it seems quite gimmicky, due to needing to kill a Pokémon to trigger the transformation. However, if it gets to revenge kill something and/or its checks are removed, it then could be troublesome to stop, especially with Psychic Terrain support to stop priority users. Sure, it would end up unable to use Water Shuriken itself (excluding Flying-types and Levitators), but things like Hydro Pump and Dark Pulse are going to hurt a lot.

However, if Greninja were to be banned again, would Battle Bond Greninja still be allowed in OU, since it is a different form of Greninja with different Abilities (aka, only access to Battle Bond)?
 
252 SpA Battle Bond Greninja Water Shuriken (3 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 144-171 (37.6 - 44.7%)
0 Atk Dark Aura Yveltal Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 124-147 (32.4 - 38.4%)
252 Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 156-189 (40.8 - 49.4%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 152-179 (39.7 - 46.8%)


252 SpA Life Orb Battle Bond Greninja Water Shuriken (5 hits) vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 195-235 (30.3 - 36.6%)
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Heavy Rain: 195-229 (30.3 - 35.6%)


252 SpA Life Orb Battle Bond Greninja Water Shuriken (3 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 186-222 (48.6 - 58.1%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 202-238 (52.8 - 62.3%)
 
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Darklatias92 said:
No, it retains its transformation, as the demo shows us.

Regarding Ash-Greninja, I have to agree that it seems quite gimmicky, due to needing to kill a Pokémon to trigger the transformation. However, if it gets to revenge kill something and/or its checks are removed, it then could be troublesome to stop, especially with Psychic Terrain support to stop priority users. Sure, it would end up unable to use Water Shuriken itself (excluding Flying-types and Levitators), but things like Hydro Pump and Dark Pulse are going to hurt a lot.

However, if Greninja were to be banned again, would Battle Bond Greninja still be allowed in OU, since it is a different form of Greninja with different Abilities (aka, only access to Battle Bond)?
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http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...hey-be-tiered-together-or-separately.3585697/
Here
 
GnralLao said:
Unless it was changed for Gen 7, Water Shuriken is a physical move. Under this circumstance, the calcs would actually look more like this:

4 Atk Greninja Water Shuriken (5 hits) vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 300-360 (46.7 - 56%) -- approx. 84.4% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Greninja Water Shuriken (5 hits) vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 360-425 (56 - 66.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Click to expand...
It was changed, Water Shuriken is special now.
 
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