Amanda Todd: The Impact of Cyber Bullying

[Danmire]

he said "then i moved on with my life" if i recall

 

[billymills]

Girl makes incredibly poor decisions regarding personal images online.

She is blackmailed with what is effectively child pornography into depression.

She does not get adequate help and resorts to drugs.

She continues to be blackmailed with child pornography for some time after and does not deal with it.

Then she is beaten physically in front of multiple students.


Sometime thereafter she is bullied on facebook, and the gut response is to crack down on Facebook posts?
Do we need more policing of online activity? Should this problem not have been dealt with months before the bullying started?

There is no doubt she should have gotten off Facebook if she is receiving messages to kill herself and the like, but those messages are pointless if they are never read. She needed to be able to tune those messages out, but she should have been able to deal with the blackmail way earlier. With the sensitivity towards child pornography in Canada, I can't believe anyone trying to blackmail her wasn't jailed for life already.

Also I think this is brought up every time: doesn't the massive over publication of suicides only encourage more people to attempt suicide as a way out of their problems?

 

[VKCA]

PS. Do people know that she got beaten up by some other girls for sleeping with one of their boyfriends (when she was 13)? There are 2 sides to every story, and its pretty obvious the stuff you will read on FB about this and the stuff in her video is biased and paints her as a perfect angel when in fact she was far from it (sleeping with peoples boyfriends, multiple webcam shows and flashing at age 13? the word slut comes to mind)

Oh man post of the year ahahahaha

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Also I think this is brought up every time: doesn't the massive over publication of suicides only encourage more people to attempt suicide as a way out of their problems?

No I don't believe so, honestly the publication isn't really geared at children, but more to parents, teachers, and administrators to get their heads in the game to teach their children how to prevent suicide and raise awareness. I could see how in theory a few stupid kids might get the idea in their heads because of it, but overall the message would help more than it harms. Suicide awareness pretty analogous to sex-ed, sure not teaching the kids about sex at all might prevent a few teen pregnancies and sexual intercourse, but overall teaching it should prevent more of it than it starts.

That's my take on it anyway, its just a theory I might be wrong.

 

[billymills]

No I don't believe so, honestly the publication isn't really geared at children, but more to parents, teachers, and administrators to get their heads in the game to teach their children how to prevent suicide and raise awareness. I could see how in theory a few stupid kids might get the idea in their heads because of it, but overall the message would help more than it harms. Suicide awareness pretty analogous to sex-ed, sure not teaching the kids about sex at all might prevent a few teen pregnancies and sexual intercourse, but overall teaching it should prevent more of it than it starts.

That's my take on it anyway, its just a theory I might be wrong.

It's probably worse that it's geared towards parents and teachers. Suicide would then be a really good way to get the attention of adults who may otherwise ignore or dismiss your problems. And note that I'm not talking about suicide awareness, that is a different issue. I'm talking about overly publicizing these bullying issues when the victims take the wrong steps.

Surely there must be some cases where the victim was able to successfully fend off the bullying and it worked out for most parties, but we rarely hear those stories.

 

[meteor64]

Your middle school education is what's hurting you here.

First thing you'll ever learn in any type of social science class in college:

ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE IS NOT RELIABLE AND NOT INDICATIVE OF WHAT IS REALLY TRUE OF A POPULATION.

You're completely right. But until you convince me with hard evidence that it is completely and utterly impossible for some people to fight off their depression, and that her case was especially deserving of the decision she took, she will not gain my sympathy. Make me out to be heartless if you will, but at least I can understand and tolerate your side of the argument.

Stop being a dickwad.

This is just a redundant personal swipe, really. Not necessary.

Just because your buddies can get through depression doesn't everyone can. Depression is a SERIOUS MENTAL ILLNESS THAT CAN NOT BE EASILY OVERCOME.

Not once have I said its easy. I'm more than familiar with the harrowing feelings depression imbues on people, I've spent the best part of 3 years trying to help someone through it. Chill the fuck out before you engage in your pious caps spam because you incorrectly assume I think its all daisies and butterflies.

PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE WHAT MAKES PEOPLE WITH DEPRESSION EVEN MORE DEPRESSED.

People like me make people like you frustrated because I feel she doesn't deserve my sympathy, and you don't like that. I assure you depressed people rather like my company, otherwise I wouldn't have the amazing friends I have.

 

[Eraddd]

Some of the finest display of Smogon's best posters here. I would not expect any less.

Also Byrne telling someone else they have middle school education is this Smogon's greatest hits thread?

I find hilarious how people strangely berate her for these "strange" decisions because obviously they wouldn't have done it too. You aren't supposed to look from her situation rationally; she was an emotional wreck, who endured assault, and bullying in real life and online (also for j7r who says to turn the computer off, I didn't know turning the computer off will magically erase all the rumours, insults and lies spread about her through social media, get the fuck real) and then somehow people find it strange that she committed suicide, even though she may have had a mental illness. I have heard parts of the stories first hand from people who actually know her (surprise! I live in the same city and went to the same school district); while she didn't make some of the best decisions, she was far from being responsible for this. The attacks were cruel, malicious, and specifically designed to hurt her in the worst way possible. Sure she made some stupid mistakes; sleeping with someone else's boyfriend, sending nudes. Do these sins really demand that she suffer these things? And yet people focus on the fact that she somehow fucked up her life and yet fail to realise that she took her own life; do you not realise the gravity and finality of death yet?

Some of you really need to grow the fuck up.

 

[dice]

I am appalled and disgusted by several of the disdainful YouTube comments, and some of these posts are rather upsetting, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion; therefore, I digress.

To address a few parallels I have spectated throughout reading this thread, I composed a list of a few which I found to be the most commonly discussed and/or controversial:

• Whether or not Amanda's death was solely her fault as suicide is a singular act; however, it can be caused by outer forces.
• Whether cyber bullying is more or less harmful than bullying in real life.
• Whether or not Amanda "deserved" the hate her peers gave to her.
• Whether or not there is a person to blame in the death of Amanda Todd.
• How can we, a society in general, help fix this problem?

The first bullet was placed in the primary position because of my personal morals and ethics which drove me to write this post in the first place. Having been both a recipient and cause of bullying, I am one to understand its effects much more than several people in this thread. I am an advocate of the household proverb "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you." Throughout my several months spent on Smogon I have probably offended several users due being an overall temperamental person in general, and as such I have received some resentment back, which is perfectly normal. In Amanda's adolescent mind, as fucked up as it seems, since people said she was beautiful and was being kind to her she returned the favor by showing them her goodies. We must remember this isn't an adult who has a developed brain, this is a teenager whose brain still hasn't fully developed its decision-making part, making Amanda more susceptible to peer pressure especially when getting complemented. Afterward, I am sure Amanda felt guilty of doing these acts of "shows", but a teenager just wants to fit in. Several of you must forget the primary thing a teenager wants to do in middle and high school-- have friends and fit in. Amanda obviously wasn't fitting in so she resorted to showing off in attempts to become "popular". Unable to see the reality of the harm she was causing herself, Amanda was then confronted with all the harm at once when this man blackmailed her. Soon after, the bullying arose and the hate grew exponentially. Through the physical and emotional damage, Amanda couldn't handle it and soon after keeled over due to this. In my opinion, blaming Amanda is very ignorant. Her peers played a major part in her death as well. Yes, Amanda was the one who committed the act of suicide, but after all of this that happened to her you can't blame her. For fuck's sake, if you still bully a girl after she changes schools not once, not twice, but three fucking times, there are some problems in the student body. If you are bullied to such an extent, the peers are at fault here. No human being deserves to be treated with such disrespect and hate that they commit suicide, no one. I don't like Asterat much as a Smogon user, however does that mean I am going to repeatedly bully him?

I leave the points up just for topics of conversation.

My prayers go out to the Todd family as I am sure they are personally scarred due to the tragic death of Amanda and the current controversy toward their daughter's death. My assumption is the parents are currently emotionally distraught between the unnecessary hate targeting Amanda and the actual death. May Amanda rest in peace, and my condolences go out to her.

tl;dr: Before my grandmother passed away, she always said: "Be kind to everyone you meet, it could be an angel."

 

[Asek]

I prefer to avoid these arguments as they usually lead to nothing but fights and the same points being brought up over and over again, but last year at my high school a girl did commit for a variety of reasons, some of which never came up. The biggest reason that was well known was that her facebook had been stolen by an old friend who had her password and was posting extremly poor and distasteful posts on everyones walls, but it would have to have gone far beyond that for her to have commited suicide. A bad home life, changing emotions and the fact that she felt pressured to look good would have all contributed to this. The purpose of that was to just say don't judge this girl for commiting suicide when you don't know all of what happened, and making posts about how "you don't care theres bigger problems in the world" is pretty distasteful, considering anybody dying is very tragic in this world, and how would you feel if this was your brother, friend etc?

 

[Age of Kings]

Sure she made some stupid mistakes; sleeping with someone else's boyfriend, sending nudes. Do these sins really demand that she suffer these things? And yet people focus on the fact that she somehow fucked up her life and yet fail to realise that she took her own life; do you not realise the gravity and finality of death yet?

Some of you really need to grow the fuck up.

I agree with this post completely, especially the bolded.

I'm shocked with how many people are readily willing to disregard a crime and slut-shame a teenager.

 

[capefeather]

To address a few parallels I have spectated throughout reading this thread, I composed a list of a few which I found to be the most commonly discussed and/or controversial:

• Whether or not Amanda's death was solely her fault as suicide is a singular act; however, it can be caused by outer forces.
• Whether cyber bullying is more or less harmful than bullying in real life.
• Whether or not Amanda "deserved" the hate her peers gave to her.
• Whether or not there is a person to blame in the death of Amanda Todd.
• How can we, a society in general, help fix this problem?

tbh I don't think that the first four bullet points are relevant or worth dissecting at all, and this thread proves this. They're just "he said, she said" and everyone will have their perspectives coloured by their experiences. They all come down a broader issue of what it means to have free will and how to define responsibility, and ultimately I don't think that that discussion is relevant. I will say that I heavily disagree with the romanticized notion of humans having infinite potential and being able to do whatever they want if they set their minds to it. I think most of this is brought upon by looking at everything as a boolean "can/can't" instead of a continuum of a person's capacity to do various things. This is why I will never understand the more extreme manifestations of libertarianism, for instance. But again, that's not really relevant to the thread.


The last point is the only point worth pursuing in the end, and that's what I was trying to get at with my first post itt. The focus should be on the actions and how to prevent this chain of events from occurring, not on deciding which people to condemn, or even on how much sympathy user X feels or should feel (as cold as that sounds). Everything else is pointless emotional reactions.

 

[skulltula]

IMO, she shouldn't be getting this much attention. Lots of people get bullied, every. day. There are also lots of suicides happening each day. Why give one girl all the attention, when she's already dead, and not try to stop this from happening again by reaching out to bullied victims, to prevent it? People have no sense of logic nowadays, they just hop on the bandwagon like that Kony bullshit. I'm not saying that I dont feel bad for her, but she's going to be forgotten about very soon by the public media. Stop giving this one girl all the attention, and try to help out kids who get bullied in your community. I for one dont see any bullying occur at my high school, but if I did, I would step in so quick nothing would happen to the victim again. Everyone should do this kind of thing, and hop off the bandwagon already.

 

[capefeather]

I agree that we should be focusing on the deeper issue of bullying. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't be paying attention to a specific case. It legitimately helps for many people to have one case in mind, and as unfortunate as it is, once that one case is out of mind, the attention to the deeper issue will fade until the next highly publicized incident. I mean, yeah, I agree it's unfortunate, but let's work with what we have here.

 

[dice]

The points are worth dissecting, although the flaming and ignorance portrayed in this thread really takes away from the importance, especially since they attribute to the main "bleh" of this, mainly shitty, 112 posts. Yes, personal experiences heavily depict your opinions on this matter, however exploring outside ones' "box" makes it interesting.

The last point is probably what Mike was trying to get to, as this thread was seemingly created to help and spread awareness of the cyber bullying in general, but turned into this massive flame war..

"Everything else is pointless emotional reactions."

I can see where you're coming from here, as you're in more of a mindset gearing toward "this case is one of many, let's learn from it and move on", however this individual case is what was brought forth in the op mainly since her public plea for help was ignored, so I think it still relevant talking about it. Your reactions do help formulate your opinions, so they shouldn't be completely ignored.

Edit: the post above brings forth the point of "Why should Amanda get all the attention, and not all the other cases?". Truth be told, it's because she made a Youtube video, but she does spread the point bullying is bad, hopefully. Sadly this occurs several times yet people don't learn from it.

 

[skulltula]

I agree with you also, but the thing is most people that hear about this case will literally do nothing to help out. Most of the time they just write about how sad they are when they hear about this on Facebook. The only people that will actually help with this case are probably the police, and relatives of the girl. Its pretty sad, actually. This many people are moved by her death but they won't do anything about it but mourn ;/

 

[dice]

I agree with you also, but the thing is most people that hear about this case will literally do nothing to help out. Most of the time they just write about how sad they are when they hear about this on Facebook. The only people that will actually help with this case are probably the police, and relatives of the girl. Its pretty sad, actually. This many people are moved by her death but they won't do anything about it but mourn ;/

If people wanted to do something about it, they could stop the bullying themselves, and encourage others to do the same. Sadly, this keeps happening over and over again and many people don't learn shit.

 

[ssbbm]

why should we feel sorry for her? i mean i guess its sad that she died, simply because a human being died, but does her death require this type of response?

if a man buys things that he cannot afford, goes into debt, and then loses everything, is it not his fault and not noteworthy?

if a girl does behaviors that she cannot deal with, gets bullied / anxiety, and then kills herself, is this not her fault?

i mean, ONCE YOU GO AND FLASH, deal with the consequences. this is just as bad as

, tbh.

you can't do something and not deal with the consequences; in this case, the consequence was bullying. she could not cope with the consequences - this led to suicide.

bullying is simply society's reactions to things that are considered "bad" by the society. she was bullied for sleeping with a girls bf; this is because this is considered "bad" by society. without bullying, then there would be no real societal pressures - this could be good or bad; take it as you will. i mean, should she really have had no consequences from flashing / making someone else cheat? if there were no consequences, such stupid behavior would have no risk, and such behavior would be more widespread.

 

[ShortsTheory]

If I have anything to say about this: it's probably a horribly unfortunate case of a lack of common sense. Look, while I understand that pre-teens can be impressionable, it seems a little stupid to push it so far.

Being only 15, I can somewhat understand the lack of social approval. It's bad, and when you combine it with shame, it produces a suicidal cocktail.

I'm not stereotyping here, but by and large, Indians are more conservative than Americans. If there's anyone at fault, it's probably just that being too liberal can result in going over the line. It also brings me to ask: what were her parents doing when she was in this depressed state?

Amanda was badly fooled, treated, bullied, and subsequently, it lead to death. It just goes to show that the Internet isn't always your best friend.

Oh, and Solace, that was a fantastic post.

 

[Snkz]

She could of been sick, she may of been looking for help that she didn't get in time
She could of been a tool

Still a shitty ending to her story though

 

[dice]

why should we feel sorry for her? i mean i guess its sad that she died, simply because a human being died, but does her death require this type of response?

if a man buys things that he cannot afford, goes into debt, and then loses everything, is it not his fault and not noteworthy?

if a girl does behaviors that she cannot deal with, gets bullied / anxiety, and then kills herself, is this not her fault?

i mean, ONCE YOU GO AND FLASH, deal with the consequences. this is just as bad as

, tbh.

you can't do something and not deal with the consequences; in this case, the consequence was suicide.

Did the man who bought something he couldn't afford get repeatedly harrassed after changing schools three times, get cyberbullied constantly, get told to "go die" several times, and even get jumped? The story is much deeper than

"1 dai gurl mke bd decizin and sh0 b00bz on camwa
girl get in trwble bcoz gurl show b00bz
girl cwy bcoz girl maid bad choise
girl dwink bleach bcoz girl upset:'((
gurl fol
she ded
xx LIKE DIS IF U CRY EVRYTIM xx"

which you seem to be making it as serious as. She was repeatedly fucking harrassed and people CONSTANTLY rode her about her past. That is just total bullshit. Yah, she fucked up. But I bet you reading this have done so in the past as well. There were no specific consequences to deal with in this case, there were just teenagers treating her inhumanely.
​

 

[Birkal]

It goes without saying that this is a tragedy. I've always been really interested in cyberbullying and have done a bunch of research on it. It has been enlightening to read through this thread; there are a lot of good posters who embody a lot of the stuff that should be done in these situations. I think Solace made an incredibly strong post and I recommend it to anyone new reading this thread. However, I wanted to comment on one of her last arguments, if you'll bear with me.

I'm very much for laws against this. There needs to be better prevention systems. Parents should have to monitor the usage of social networking for children under 18. People may think this is excessive, but since we are so willing to excuse what the children behind each action that drove Amanda Todd to kill herself because Amanda should've been tougher, we need to do something to prevent these things from happening. There are some laws already in act for in-person bullying in schools, but if we hold people accountable for these things in real life, we should be damn sure we hold them accountable for it online. I want the children who went after her like savages to pay for what they did. Whether it's through prevention or through harsh punishments that scare everyone so much that they don't bully, there needs to be something. Regulating Facebook comments can be tricky, but the way things are going now must be changed. It shouldn't become something that is taught after the bullying is taken to the extreme, and it shouldn't be something that people only care about AFTER someone takes their own life.

While it sounds like a really good idea to set up laws for this in theory, I think it would pans out poorly in reality. We'd have to give up a large portion of our rights to freely speak and express ourselves over the Internet. On top of that, we'd now have to funnel in revenue to fuel organizations to monitor for this stuff. It gets real complicated real fast, almost to the point of zero feasibility. While I think it's a good sentiment, I am filled with doubt that we can enact legislature to cut down on this stuff. You also make it sound like "regular" bullying is stopped hard by legislation, which is not true; it's still prevalent in our schools and a large problem that all forms of primary education still face today. Bullying is a terrible crime, yet it is still rampant throughout the world; people will bully whether or not you instigate laws. I am not convinced that throwing in laws is the best way to go about this.

What sounds more worthwhile to pursue, in my opinion, is the education of parents AND children on what cyberbullying entails. I wrote a paper my senior year of high school on cyberbullying, and I was floored by how many people are seeking laws to be actively placed to prevent this stuff. None were really breaking ground when I did my research then, and none have started emerging since, as far as I am aware (this is likely due to how impossible setting up rules on this stuff is). What is practical to do is inform people about cyberbullying and suggest measures that can be prevented.

I could rage at parents all night, but I will keep it short. I'm fed up with parents who isolate themselves from their kids and are unwilling to talk completely and openly with them. Don't bring Amanda Todd's parents into this; I'm making generalizations and not wholly interested in talking on a case by case basis. We live in an age where kids are being less and less supported by their parents, whether it be through the long hours they work, divorce, or their general lack of interest in their kids. Obviously parents are at least mildly concerned when they hear their child is being bullied, but what do they do? What can they do? I think many parents hug their kid and hope it will pass. That doesn't cut it. Educating these parents about what they can do is essential to fixing the problems. Show them parental controls, talk about the risks of the Internet for youth, teach them about morals and child psychology, and the like. Same goes for children too. Teaching kids that cyberbullying exists and can be severely damaging is crucial. I don't think many kids go to their parents once cyberbullied but rather, just keep it pent up inside, which is when tragedies like this happen. If we only placed our focus on educating parents and children about cyberbullying, the dangers it can bring, and how to avoid it or find healthy alternatives, then I believe we'll find some real progress with this stuff.

Education and changing the mentality of the public will go a lot further then demanding unwieldy laws, in my opinion.

 

[ssbbm]

which you seem to be making it as serious as. She was repeatedly fucking harrassed and people CONSTANTLY rode her about her past. That is just total bullshit. Yah, she fucked up. But I bet you reading this have done so in the past as well. There were no specific consequences to deal with in this case, there was just inhumane teenagers.

i havent fucked up enough to flash (i am a male btw so i guess i cant really) and sleep with a guys girlfriend!

and what do you mean there are no consequences? if a man kills your mother, will you be ok with letting him get away with no penalty? similarly, a girl sleeps with your boyfriend - you sure as FUCK are going to make her life miserable.

she can't do fucking anything she wants and then everyone be like "oh im sorry its not her fault you shouldnt bully her for that!"

maybe it wasn't right for it to go that far, but if you pardon todd for doing her actions, you can surely pardon everybody else for their actions because of "emotional imbalances".

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

I'm not stereotyping here, but by and large, Indians are more conservative than Americans. If there's anyone at fault, it's probably just that being too liberal can result in going over the line. It also brings me to ask: what were her parents doing when she was in this depressed state?

wuh

what?

Ok before I go insane with far left anger, I would like you to rephrase that because too liberal -> "going over the line" doesn't even have a connective logic if you just state it as so.

 

[Style_Dota]

I would love to see some of the people posting in this thread have a similar experience and then belittle this situation..., though I would really hope that this doesn't happen to anyone else.

But yeah, I like Birkal's approach the best. The best way to do this is to educate the parents and the children, showing them that bullying is a very serious problem.

And yes Bri, the last point was what I was hoping to accomplish. At least some of the posts are constructive towards that.

 

[Mercy]

bullying is simply society's reactions to things that are considered "bad" by the society. she was bullied for sleeping with a girls bf; this is because this is considered "bad" by society. without bullying, then there would be no real societal pressures - this could be good or bad; take it as you will. i mean, should she really have had no consequences from flashing / making someone else cheat? if there were no consequences, such stupid behavior would have no risk, and such behavior would be more widespread.

Enlighten me genius, what in your opinion is the appropriate consequence/punishment for flashing on the internet and making some else cheat?