Metagame Alphabet Cup

This looks like a pretty funny metagame (possibly)
Multi attack melmetal?
Behemoth blade bisharp?
dark pulse ditto SWORDS DANCE SNORLAX!?!?
I'll watch some replays, but im not going to make any teams for it out of laziness. I'll look at the format from time to time ig.
 
alephgalactus said:
Someone please explain why Toxapex with Teleport isn’t banned.
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I'll explain this one from my point of view: Toxapex with Teleport isn't necessarily a major change for Toxapex - whilst it does give it the ability to be more supportive to its teammates, it was already great at stopping momentum and finding a way of making its team benefit from that. Things from OU that would usually pressure it are still relevant with regards to Teleport Toxapex. However, this isn't OU - it is Alphabet Cup, and tons of mons have jacked up coverage to be able to deal with Toxapex easily. The prevalence of Bolt Strike, Precipice Blades and various other strong neutral STABs like Dragon Ascent and Dragon Energy tend to make it much harder for Toxapex to be the annoying wall it usually is, and prevalence of other status inflicting moves like Sacred Fire and Steam Eruption give Toxapex a harder time of staying alive. Additionally, some of the freed threats like Urshifu (broken), Zamazenta-Crowned and Magearna still force loads of pressure onto Toxapex as a general defensive pivot.
 
Chazm said:
I'll explain this one from my point of view: Toxapex with Teleport isn't necessarily a major change for Toxapex - whilst it does give it the ability to be more supportive to its teammates, it was already great at stopping momentum and finding a way of making its team benefit from that. Things from OU that would usually pressure it are still relevant with regards to Teleport Toxapex. However, this isn't OU - it is Alphabet Cup, and tons of mons have jacked up coverage to be able to deal with Toxapex easily. The prevalence of Bolt Strike, Precipice Blades and various other strong neutral STABs like Dragon Ascent and Dragon Energy tend to make it much harder for Toxapex to be the annoying wall it usually is, and prevalence of other status inflicting moves like Sacred Fire and Steam Eruption give Toxapex a harder time of staying alive. Additionally, some of the freed threats like Urshifu (broken), Zamazenta-Crowned and Magearna still force loads of pressure onto Toxapex as a general defensive pivot.
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Is Urshifu-Single Strike (the Dark one) unbanned? I've never tried to use it so I don't know whether it's valid. I'm aware Magearna is unbanned, but the OP's list of unbanned mons only lists Zamazenta-C.
 
Speaking of broken mons I'm here to drop my hot takes of the broken things in the meta, gotta do this pretty early in the month before things get rolling as I feel like when this was OM last not enough tiering actions were taken imo, no offense to anyone obviously

:Magearna:
Extremely broken mon over here, does basically everything it did when it was in OU but has fire coverage, reliable recovery, and Meteor Beam to make those random fire types pay. I made a post about it last time and basically everything said there still applies but it feels more oppressive probably because I'm actually facing it more. It has a tech for everything under the sun, I've seen multi-attack variants on shift gear that bop whatever special tank it wants (usually it runs fighting), specs only really needs magma storm to own AV amoonguss (like the only switch-in but can't do much back), focus blast is still a thing, stored power + draining kiss is still cheap, it's also one of the best special defensive mons due to recovery + mystical fire letting it beat down cm spam. Shit is fucked and is pretty broken tbh.

:Urshifu:
Now this mon doesn't really gain anything but it doesn't really need anything to be impossible to switch into. Although, I have seen some players running Knock Off to remove helmets and debilitate what little switch-ins this mon has. Basically this is the same wicked blow spamming piece of shit that got banned from OU and although Alphabet Cup has a higher powerlevel obviously I don't think it's enough to prevent this mon from feeling overwhelming.

:kommo-o:
Clangorous Soul is a pretty cheap move tbh. There's quite a few viable users of it and it often feels very surprising when it comes out. If you pivot into your own defensive mon on something you perceive as a defensive threat like corviknight or blissey and it suddenly starts setting up you can end up in a very bad situation very fast. A lot of these sweepers get stored power or power trip and those each scale insanely well with clangorous soul. Stuff like this makes running spectral thief on basically everything defensive but that's often not enough as a lot of the best spectral thief users can be taken down by these boosted mons before they can get it off. Prankster topsy-turvy stops their sweep but this can often feel like a stopgap method as thundurus is not bulky and can be worn down while these clangorous soul mons have recovery usually. The best clangorous soul mon I think is blissey (seriously) because it has a good offensive presence with boosted boomburst and stored power and is immune to spectral thief, and it can usually just heal up on things it can't beat or just switch out and come back later. I've also seen this move on clefable, corviknight, cresselia, and chandelure (insane w/ webs).

------The stuff below this line I don't feel as strongly about but could still be problematic------

:sableye:
Sticky web feels very common just cause so many mons have it, so much so that I've found running very boots-heavy teams are good in order to combat all the hazard spamming going on. At the same time options like like court change and rapid spin are more splashable too but it can be hard to find an option to go for these against sticky web teams. Basically sticky web teams feel a bit borderline to me right now but I think if either urshifu-s or clangorous soul is banned they'll be less problematic

:falinks:
I don't feel as strongly about no retreat as I do about clangorous soul because it has far less abusers and generally it's a lot easier to predict when it's going to come out. It can only be used once and traps the user in, meaning that they become very vulnerable to spectral thief unless they run shed shell. It does however enable some sweepers that can be pretty insane under the right conditions.

:dragapult:
This mon is basically good for all the reasons it is in OU, I know some people think it's broken but I actually think it's less broken here than in OU because ghost immunities are more splashable, especially snorlax which can also not be 2HKO'd by dragon energy. Dragon energy seems like a much more spammable move than draco meteor but it often isn't as resists to it are very common, it still only has 8 PP and as dragapult takes hazard damage it it loses effectiveness, still a very good mon and a bit borderline but fine for now imo. Also shout out that one player running dd + dragon ascent, i thought my buzzwole was safe.

:dragonite:
This is another very strong sweeper that you can find yourself losing to easily, the main stops to it are random spectral thief and cotton guard corv which everyone seems to be running right now, which outpaces it and eats up all its PP. I also fought a CB set which was a lot better than standard CB due to the sheer power of dragon ascent and a safer dragon move, although i think running fire punch would have been better.

:excadrill:
I thought this mon was kinda broken last time i played but i've been seeing a lot more cotton guard corv and dragapult nowadays so it actually accomplishes a lot less, still it's an excellent sweeper with sd + espeed and I've grown to respect DD as well after being owned by dragon ascent (seriously my buzzwole cannot catch a break).

:toxapex:
Also gotta mention telepex since someone else mentioned it here, while it is a pretty cheap and lame mon I feel like giving up a moveslot for teleport exacerbates a problem with passivity it already has, it generally wants haze to not be setup fodder and that leaves one moveslot to scald assuming you run recover. I will concede that teleport makes it an excellent pivot though and also gives it the neat ability to take a hit and escape from future sight. However it is also faster than slowbro/king and therefore teleports out before it. I guess it’s good but I haven’t seen any showings convincing me it’s broken as of right now

Gonna make a more general post later probably after a VR comes out so I can combine it with vr reccomendations, alright that's all for now peace
 
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Figured I might as well post some stuff I've been messing with.

:ss/Arcanine:
Arcanine @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Att/4 SpD/252 Spe or 252 SpA/4 SpD/252 Spe
Jolly/Timid Nature
-Flare Blitz/Flamethrower
-Grav Apple/Apple Acid
-Morning Sun
-Teleport

Arcanine is interesting in that it's one of only two mons that can use both Grav Apple and Apple Acid, the other being Flapple. This gives it a rather unique niche as an offensive support as it has the attacking stats to work with either and Grass coverage complements its Fire STAB quite nicely, meaning it could be running either physical or special; this means you can't be 100% certain which it'll be at preview. The deciding factor is mainly power vs sustain, as physical can better force progress against slower teams while special doesn't need to use recovery as often due to self-inflicted damage, allowing Arcanine to make better use of Intimidate. Teleport allows Arcanine to then safely get in a plethora of very dangerous threats, potentially opening up your win-con.

:ss/Seismitoad:
Seismotoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP/8 Att/ 252 Def
Impish Nature
-Spikes/Sticky Web
-Thousand Waves
-Knock Off
-Shore Up/Strength Sap

While I initially used Swampert on my main team, I've been trying the team with Seismitoad instead; while not as bulky as Swampert, Seismitoad crucially packs Water Absorb, which was mainly for Fishious Rend and also Primarina Boomburst if my special wall was too low. Seismitoad can provide Spikes or Webs just like the Swamp, and can recover with Shore Up or weaken physical sweepers with Strength Sap. Seismitoad packs two additional advantages, though: Knock Off allows further support and can weaken stallier teams, while Thousand Waves allows Toad to trap physical attackers who find it harder to break than expected, allowing it to surgically remove certain mons if they lack available pivoting. If you don't need it to hazard set, you can instead give that first slot to pivoting with either Parting Shot or Teleport; between P, S and T, Toad has a ton of options to work with.

:ss/Snorlax:
Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Immunity/Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP/108 Att/148 SpD or 252 HP/8 Att/248 SpD
Careful Nature
-Curse
-Multi-Attack
-Spectral Thief
-Shore Up

Reliable recovery helps bring CurseLax back in force, alongside stronger STAB and Spectral Thief, which allows it to hit most Normal resists and start its sweep by snatching boost from No Retreat and special Clangorous Soul users (with +2, Snorlax can outspeed Clefable and potentially KO with follow-up Multi-Attack), which is why I spec-ed both spreads to focus on SpD; this SpD investment even allows it to use the dangerous Magearna as set up fodder. Snorlax is able to play a key role both offensively and defensively, and I would suggest using whichever spread depending on which part you need more. Its Normal typing makes it immune to opposing Thiefs, and it has either Immunity to prevent itself from getting worn down by Toxic or Thick Fat to better take moves like Magma Storm; I would recommend Fat more on the defensive spread, while either spread can make use of Immunity.

:ss/Tapu Koko:
Tapu Koko @ Choice Band
EVs: 252 Att/4 SpD/252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Wild Charge
-Triple Axel
-Thunderous Kick
-U-turn

I've heard Band Koko is a menace, and with Triple Axel it's not hard to see why; one thing I haven't seen discussed, though, is Thunderous Kick, which allows it to turn the tables on physical walls who switch in only to get a rude awakening. It also prevents this set from letting in sweepers like DDance Excadrill in for free, as the mole is soundly 2HKOed. Other than that, yeah this thing is insane. Great speed tier, terrain-boosted Wild Charge can do a hefty chunk to neutral targets, Triple Axel means most Grounds can't come in safely and U-turn allows pivoting support. Easily one of the best breakers in the meta.
 
Love this metagame, created an account just to share this. Didn't see this set anywhere, but it has been incredibly powerful and uses one of my all time favorite mons.

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Immunity
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Shore Up
- Curse
- Spectral Thief
 
i found a team that fcking slaps

:Escavalier: :Tangela: :Toxapex: :Wishiwashi: :Flareon: :Mudsdale:

i simply love this team, the tr setters are more reliable than most regular tr setters and the sweepers hit a lot harder than what i thought at first place thanks to new stabs/coverage

a little in-depth set analysis:

Escavalier @ Life Orb
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Megahorn
- Iron Head

this thing saved me sooo many times. stuff living on low health and setting up a noretreat/clang on the last turn of tr is much more common than what you would expect, and espeed excadrill really helps with that. other than that, it hits really hard (i once did like 75% to a diancie with resisted megahorn at +2) and if it sets up an sd, it's gonna get at least 2-3 kills. it also has some decent bulk so it can live stuff and hit back.
Tangela @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Teleport
- Giga Drain
- Topsy-Turvy

my main lead & main tr setter. his physical bulk is insane, you won't believe how much stuff this thing can live on the physical side. sets tr and teleports away, healing up some chip damage he could have taken in the meanwhile. gigadrain is for when you get taunted and it also helps with the fact that THIS THING HAS NO RECOVERY FFS. topsy is very gimmicky in this set but it actually saved me a few times against noretreat/clang stuff. his special bulk is very bad unfortunately but here it comes the next member of the team:
Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Teleport
- Milk Drink
- Scald

spdef pex is the perfect partner for tangela, it helps compensate most of its weaknesses & its poor special bulk. again tr + teleport with regen is busted, milk drink is for healing up and scald is scald. this thing can live stored powers from some boosted stuff (i don't have time to do calcs but trust me this thing lives) & set tr on their face, making the speed boost from noretreat/clang completely useless. oh and also this:
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 172-204 (56.5 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
Wishiwashi @ Choice Specs
Ability: Schooling
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Water Spout
- Ice Beam
- Scald
- U-turn

ohhh boi this thing. if the opponent is playing rain this thing 6-0s everything, and even without rain this thing can clean a lot of stuff, especially late game. water spout is its main attack (doesn't learn it normally, learns it thanks to the W), ice beam is for coverage, scald is for when u get at low pp and uturn is for pivot. simply as that. the main problem is that when it takes too much damage water spout becomes inconsistent, and when below 25% hp it stops schooling and deals a really tiny amount of damage. also this thing hates hazards since chip lowers the power of water spout every time this thing switches in, but other than that it's a fantastic late game cleaner & sweeper in general
Flareon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Eruption
- Fiery Dance
- Freeze-Dry
- Earth Power

now this. this thing is the jolly of the team. noone expects a special set on a flareon, let alone playing flareon on tr. eruption hits less hard than wishi's water spout, but with boots flareon doesn't have the hazard chip down problem that wishi has. fiery dance is for when eruption becomes too weak, and it also has a chance to raise spatk and deal even more damage. freeze-dry is a fantastic gimmick, destroys stuff like pelipper that can weak down eruption by settung up rain or swampert that resists flareon's stab and can hit back with both stabs. earth power is mainly to hit rock types, since flareon usually has problems against them. also fun fact this flareon doesn't learn any of the 4 moves naturally, it learns all of them thanks to the flareon's F and to the eevee's E.
Mudsdale @ Ice Memory
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Multi-Attack
- Earthquake
- Close Combat
- Heavy Slam

last member of the team, i don't know what to say anymore, this thing just hits hard, ice is insane coverage for him to hit flyings and grasses, earthquake is a sick stab, close combat hits stuff and heavy slam hits other stuff (manly fairies like primarina). this thing has almost no switchins and if you're good at predicting your opponent this thing destroys everything.
that's it for the team. i love this team, it's really funny to play with and it wins most games; but like every other team, it has a few problems:
the main problem of this team is the fact that it has no hazard removal, and since i saw so many slowbro/king leads that set hazards this team can't prevent that. as i already said, wishi is the one who has the most problems with hazards, since every time it switches in on hazards the power of water spout decreases. for the rest of the team, flareon has boots and tangela and toxapex can heal up by switching out, so they have no problems with hazards; mudsdale resist stealth rocks and escavalier takes normal damage, so they take a little bit of chip but usually that isn't a problem.

another problem is when you can't set tr, either because your special/physical wall is dead and your opponent has a physical/special sweeper or because the opposing sweeper is too powerful. in that case you have to rely on extreme speed esca and sometimes on flareon and mudsdale too (even tho these last 2 can't do much most of the time)

feel free to use this team and to suggest me any changes you would make!
 
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diego_yuhhi said:
(id like 75% to a diancie with quadresisted megahorn at +2)

the main problem is that when it takes too much damage water spout becomes inconsistent, and when below 50% hp it stops schooling and deals a really tiny amount of damage.

Freeze-dry is a fantastic gimmick, destroys stuff like pelipper that can weak down eruption by settung up rain or swampert that quadresists flareon's stab and can hit back.
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Rock doesn't resist Bug, so it's only a normal resist.

Washi gets to it's solo form at 25%, not 50%.

Ground doesn't resist Fire, so it's a normal resist.
 
kirby of the jet said:
Would someone care to explain why this allowed?
Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Cotton Guard
- Body Press
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal Bell
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Ten of the fourteen Pokémon ranked A+ or higher on the viability rankings can wall it even after it sets up to +6 Def (two are ghost types, six have recovery moves and resist Fighting, and two have recovery moves and high Def and are neutral to Fighting), and most of those ten can set up for free against it and eventually kill it.

Calcs:
+6 252+ Def Blissey Body Press vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Corviknight: 121-143 (30.2 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Blissey Body Press vs. Dragapult: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever
+6 252+ Def Blissey Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 33-39 (10.2 - 12%) -- possible 9HKO
+6 252+ Def Blissey Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 34-40 (11.1 - 13.1%) -- possible 8HKO
+6 252+ Def Blissey Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 76-90 (22.9 - 27.1%) -- 54.3% chance to 4HKO
Blissey Body Press vs. Blacephalon: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever
+6 252+ Def Blissey Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Clefable: 14-17 (3.5 - 4.3%) -- possibly the worst move ever
+6 252+ Def Blissey Body Press vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Magearna: 112-132 (30.7 - 36.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 252+ Def Blissey Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Silvally-Fairy: 65-77 (19.6 - 23.2%) -- possible 5HKO
+6 252+ Def Blissey Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 72-85 (25.6 - 30.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Also, while not necessarily viable, many S mons can beat it with Swords Dance + Storm Throw. For example:
+2 172+ Atk Scizor Storm Throw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey on a critical hit: 738-870 (103.3 - 121.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252+ Def Blissey Body Press vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 127-150 (37 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
 
In addition to what others have mentioned, Sacred Sword is a solid coverage option for a lot of mons and it ignores the defense boosts from Cotton Guard. Going for defense boosts is better left to Corviknight and other mons that aren’t weak to Sacred Sword.
 
Okay it's time to reveal my favourite mon in this tier by far.



:ninetales::ninetales::ninetales::ninetales::ninetales:
Ninetales @ Choice Band
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Volt Switch
- Volt Tackle
- Will-O-Wisp/Energy Ball

First: The outside impact of Ninetales is pretty great. Disrupting fairly common rain teams is a huge boon on the ladder, and evens up the match up significantly even if you don't click the big move ever nor have a chloro mon.

Second, and most importantly. V-Create is outrageously strong, don't be deceived by the awful attack stat. It's ~23% stronger than Victini weilding a Choice Band.

252 Atk Choice Band Ninetales V-create vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Swampert in Sun: 250-295 (61.8 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Ninetales V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire in Sun: 185-218 (46.9 - 55.3%) -- 16.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Ninetales V-create vs. 248 HP / 220 Def Zapdos in Sun: 417-492 (108.8 - 128.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Choice Band Ninetales V-create vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Heat in Sun: 159-187 (52.4 - 61.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
Jrdn said:
Okay it's time to reveal my favourite mon in this tier by far.



:ninetales::ninetales::ninetales::ninetales::ninetales:
Ninetales @ Choice Band
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Volt Switch
- Volt Tackle
- Will-O-Wisp/Energy Ball

First: The outside impact of Ninetales is pretty great. Disrupting fairly common rain teams is a huge boon on the ladder, and evens up the match up significantly even if you don't click the big move ever nor have a chloro mon.

Second, and most importantly. V-Create is outrageously strong, don't be deceived by the awful attack stat. It's ~23% stronger than Victini weilding a Choice Band.

252 Atk Choice Band Ninetales V-create vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Swampert in Sun: 250-295 (61.8 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Ninetales V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire in Sun: 185-218 (46.9 - 55.3%) -- 16.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Ninetales V-create vs. 248 HP / 220 Def Zapdos in Sun: 417-492 (108.8 - 128.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Choice Band Ninetales V-create vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Heat in Sun: 159-187 (52.4 - 61.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Click to expand...
Don’t forget that it gets No Retreat (that it can volt switch out of), Nuzzle, and a bunch of other nutty stuff!
 
More sets and some metagame thoughts.

:Diggersby: @ Life Orb
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Bolt Strike

Doesn't look like much, but the additional power from Double-Edge and Bolt Strike over Body Slam and Wild Charge help with breaking. Everyone loves leaving their Corviknight in to eat a Bolt Strike. Watch out for Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn/Garchomp, Double-Edge recoil adds up quickly, but Diggersby usually leaves at least one body in its wake or softens multiple Pokemon for another team member to clean up.

:Tapu Lele: @ Choice Specs
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Terrain Pulse
- Moonblast
- Teleport
- Trick

It's no Expanding Force, but Terrain Pulse is still more than most Pokemon can suffer without a resist or being Blissey, who really hates losing her Boots. Teleport is Teleport, this move is kiiinda broken the more I play gen 8, but it also feels like it's just joining Boots and BH Imposter as a sort of necessary evil despite the clearly warping effect it has on the metagame (though neither Teleport or Boots can be said to be a balancing aspect for the metagame like Imposter is for BH).

The only thing that makes me think the two omniboosting moves are anywhere close to balanced given the number of Pokemon that have a C and N in their evolutionary line (and honestly the jury is still very out on Clangorous Soul) is that Spectral Thief exists and it is fucking everywhere. Besides that I've really been enjoying Alphabet Cup.
 
Jrdn said:
Okay it's time to reveal my favourite mon in this tier by far.



:ninetales::ninetales::ninetales::ninetales::ninetales:
Ninetales @ Choice Band
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Volt Switch
- Volt Tackle
- Will-O-Wisp/Energy Ball

First: The outside impact of Ninetales is pretty great. Disrupting fairly common rain teams is a huge boon on the ladder, and evens up the match up significantly even if you don't click the big move ever nor have a chloro mon.

Second, and most importantly. V-Create is outrageously strong, don't be deceived by the awful attack stat. It's ~23% stronger than Victini weilding a Choice Band.

252 Atk Choice Band Ninetales V-create vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Swampert in Sun: 250-295 (61.8 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Ninetales V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire in Sun: 185-218 (46.9 - 55.3%) -- 16.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Ninetales V-create vs. 248 HP / 220 Def Zapdos in Sun: 417-492 (108.8 - 128.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Choice Band Ninetales V-create vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Heat in Sun: 159-187 (52.4 - 61.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Click to expand...
I was going to make a post about this mon and I'm glad someone else did. I usually use Solar Beam in one of the slots to 2HKO Rhyperior and phys def swampert but really I rarely click anything besides v-create. Also I usually use adamant cause i'm hooked on the power. This thing is an insane breaker and can 2HKO stuff like phys def slowbro and toxapex with v-create after stealth rock or spikes. Also it's not setup fodder after a kill either since i've had people try and DD with haxorus or something in its face and get OHKO'd by v-create. It's a really good mon. I know it gets other stuff like no retreat but really I don't think any set besides CB is worth using, special sets are kinda underwhelming and as a sun setting pivot torkoal is just way better due to role compression and slow teleport.

The following are mons that i think are worth using but are not on on the vr, basically consider like vr nominations cause i think these mons are def viable
:amoonguss:
It's inconceivable that this is not on the VR, it's a very common and good pivot with AV, generally a good switch in to dragapult, tapu koko (special), thundurus, magearna, and others. Some people run future sight on it but personally I think some specific coverage like foul play or fire lash is better in the last slot.
:exploud:
Very good revenge killer with CB Scrappy Extreme Speed, but its useful in other matchups too. In particular CB Explosion is often a free kill or at the very least takes half off a corviknight or something and opens things up for your other mons. This is really just a great mon for controlling opposing offense while providing a usable ghost immunity that isn't passive.
:kartana:
Doesn't gain anything but it's still a good offensive mon, I've found scarf useful in this as it can revenge kill pretty much anything with a bit of prior damage and it's faster than scarf blacephalon but the other sets are good too, not much to say
:zeraora:
Another mon that doesn't gain anything but doesn't need to, its a good offensive pivot that is importantly faster than dragapult. Its not as good as in standard due to more resilient ground types but it can also lure with grass knot much more effectively since everyone seems to be running swampert.
:polteageist:
This is genuinely an amazing sweeper, all it really needed was secret sword to beat everything it needs to. Spectral Thief lurking around every corner and the fact it needs some specific support to set up safely prevents it from being top tier but it is truly threatening
:liepard:
I’ve used this mon a lot and its niche is prankster parting shot to help limit sweepers with priority. Pair it with defensive mons with pivoting moves and abilities enabled by switching in and out like regenerator and intimidate and you can basically stall out many sweepers you would not be able to beat normally even if they are extremely speed boosted. All the while liepard chips them with fake out too. It’s a niche sort of mon that requires a specific sort of team but I have had some good success with it
:roserade:
This is kind of a niche mon but I like it better than rotom-mow as a rapid spinner since it is much more resistant to status due to its poison typing and natural cure, it doesnt need to rely on an 8 pp move for its stab and you can even use it as a spikes setter and spinner at once which is some nice role compression. I also tried an offensive set with blue flare and stabs and it was a pretty usable breaker since heatran seems kinda uncommon but probably outclassed by something better.
:rhyperior:
Good matchup against salamence and dragonite, physical tapu koko, cb ninetales, and a few other physical mons. It can rapid spin too but also loses to hazard setters like swampert so i think the best set is recover + two stabs + toxic or SR, or even roar.
:sylveon:
Banded pixispeed is an amazing revenge killing tool in a meta with a lot of dangerous dragon-type sweepers and it has pretty good coverage with sacred fire and eq although it is still pretty weak. SD is probably usable too but don't use it for any other set as its outclassed by silvally-fairy and clef
:umbreon:
This is a pretty good check to mons like specs dragapult and u-turn means it is no longer a momentum suck and can even pass wishes to allies
:ditto:
Nothing changed about it but ditto will always be usable in any meta with setup sweepers.
 
Alrighty I'm going to drop the team most responsible for peaking at #1 on the ladder for this meta and just give a brief rundown of some things I think about each pokemon.
1629048782084.png

The Team:
:Sylveon::Reuniclus::Skarmory::Swampert::Dragapult::Urshifu:
I originally decided to use Sylveon because I thought it could be good on HO. And then I pivoted to balance because I fucking always pivot to balance lmao. The moveset for Sylv changed from softboiled->sunsteel strike namely because there's a decent amount of unaware clef on the ladder and they often use Clangerous Soul which might not win vs me outright, but has an otherwise fantastic MU vs the team. It's a solid mon. Good revenging capabilities and keeps certain mons in check. Might need to switch offensively into an Urshifu which is scary.

Since my set up mon's most vital move by far is ESpeed, I wanted to make sure Tapu Lele didn't fuck me up. I thought of this set previously, but on this team it's cemented as easily my favourite mon on the team and my favourite set (alongside the Ninetales). Every move is so clutch, to the point that I think Psychic is the most replaceable....maybe Knock? This mon keeps SO many things in check. Spec Thief is godly. Best move in the meta lmao.

I figured with Sylveon being able to pick up KOs on weakened mons + having a solid spinner, spike-stacking made a ton of sense. Enter Skarmory who covers for Reuniclus on the defensive side pretty well. Spec Thief remains godly. Sacred Fire ain't far behind in its holiness. Overall just helps keep phsyical set up in check and works really well in conjunction with Reu. Double spec thief is such a pain in the ass lol.

Swampert is just glue for the defensive core. Doesn't really do anything interesting. Lives two Sballs from Pult which is MIGHTY important considering what the team is.

Dragapult is fast, hits hard, immune to spin, gets momentum. All things I wanted to have in the last 2 slots. Clutches up for me countless times.

Urshifu.....Pretty sure this is just broken gotta be honest. It's done so much work for me but I gotta keep it real. Busted mon.
Strong special attacking ghosts
Urshifu (duh)
Primarina
Dracozolt
Darmanitan
 
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Hey guys! After a good amount of time has passed, we have recently identified various problematic elements of the metagame with a good amount of time passed, so without further ado, Mamoswine, Magearna, Urshifu-Single-Strike and Zamazenta-Crowned have been banned in Alphabet Cup!
:ss/mamoswine: :ss/magearna: :ss/Urshifu: :ss/Zamazenta-Crowned:

:Mamoswine:

Mamoswine is a very overwhelming pokemon in the metagame, especially when it comes to the coverage and stronger stab it gains to threaten just about any defensive mon with too little difficulty. It's "checks" in the meta are thwarted by its access to strong coverage options in Plasma Fists, Sacred Fire, and Precipice Blades, easily dispatching of mons that would normally check it such as Corviknight, Slowbro, and Buzzwole. Along with strong options that S provides such as Spikes and Swords Dance, Mamoswine has too many tools, making it very inconsistent to constantly handle for too many teams.

:Magearna:

Magearna is simply too versatile for the metagame, having too many sets that all prove overwhelming. Its access to fire coverage makes it harder for steels not named Heatran to consistently switch into it, and sets like Specs Magearna can use this to fire off Fleur Cannons with relatively no difficulty and crippling many team structures through the mix of Fleur Cannon Fire/Fight coverage, Volt Switch and Trick. Stored Power has proved itself to still be consistent cheese, with teams often needing priority Haze/Topsy Turvy to keep it in check. Other sets like Meteor Beam, Magma Storm, and Milk Drink Magearna really made it difficult to tell what set was on preview, which often resulted in players needing to bring more than one Magearna check for each set.

:Urshifu:

Although Urshifu gains little to arguably nothing for this format, the pressure it puts on teams through it's dual stab combination + coverage to hit most fairies and it's ubiquitous Wicked Blow is simply too much, threatening a rather easy 2HKO on many mons in the meta if it wants to with Choice Band or Life Orb, while still being decent against offenses with Sucker Punch which makes dealing with this mon often not worth the risk as it opens up your team to other threats in the meta rather easily.

:Zamazenta-Crowned:

Zamazenta-Crowned might have seemed fine initially, but it's hefty 92/145/145 bulk with Dauntless Shield makes it brute force through most offenses, often trading with at least two mons. With coverage in Zing Zap offering an even better chance to break past usual checks like Pex, Corv, and Slowbro, it amounts to teams being pressured into running specific defensive mons that can cripple it with status to even attempt to check it properly.

There are other mons in the meta that we are still wary about, and we are actively looking into them! If you have any thoughts on what you perceive as too much for the metagame, feel free to leave them in this thread as always!

Tagging Kris for Implementation! :afrostar:

​
 
Hows This set:
Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Dynamic Punch
- Swords Dance
- Hypnosis
- Shadow Sneak
 
If no moves were deleted in Gen 8, Golurk could rock in this.
:ss/golurk:
Code: 
Golurk @ Focus Sash
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 SpA
- Grass Whistle
- Rock Polish / Gravity
- Poltergeist
- Earthquake
Grass Whistle is the move I'm particularly talking about. The Focus Sash is to make sure it can survive an attack to use Rock Polish. It is quite slow, but Rock Polish quite remedies this. Poltergeist and Earthquake are STABs. Gravity is potentially so it can hit Normal/Flying-types. I wonder if it's been viable in Gen 6/7 Alphabet Cup.

Its known counters are, however, Insomnia and Vital Spirit mons. Soundproof is good too, but to an extent. Some of the lesser known ones are:
  • Noctowl: It not only has Insomnia, but naturally outspeeds Golurk. It can use Hypnosis on it with no worry of missing because No Guard makes the target unable to evade anyone's moves. If running Rock Polish, then Golurk can do nothing about it. Can be backfired at with Shadow Ball, Hydro Pump or Night Daze.
  • Farfetch'd: It may be weak, but may deal with Golurk by using Knock Off, Night Slash or even Leaf Blade. If Golurk runs Gravity, Farfetch'd outspeeds it and can lash out with a Fishious Rend.
  • Unfezant: A set with 252 SpA EVs and a +SpA nature that has Tar Shot and Heat Wave could deal with Golurk, but it's less viable than the other two. However, I mentioned it for Super Luck. Petal Blizzard, Trop Kick and Throat Chop are also quite good options, as well as Night Slash.
 
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