A radical proposition: Camerupt

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gorm

gorm

is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
1st off lock this if im out of line, i guess but this isnt an issue im gonna let go of as long as i think it's worth pursuing. Second i dont mean to disrespect darkie in any way and i dont wanna make his hard work seem like it was for nothing..



but i digress.

Back in adv, zapdos was somewhat rampant but all it really had was resttalk and thunderwave/hidden power. it was comon knowledge that camperupt stopped this zapdos cold.. but due to the sheer amount of bulky waters (no Lo meant weaker mence/dragons in genera so pert/milo were everywhere)

currently the metagame is somewhat tumultous... heatran/scizor means blissey zapdos everywhere and most matches seem like a diceroll of who has better threats/leads and personally i find it kind of rough for teambuilding, i dunno who agrees.

evolving a camerupt gives us a check towards a surprisingly huge amount of offensive/defensive threats, but performing these duties mosstly offensively.

none of skymin/heatran/zapdos/scizor/blissey/tyranitar can switch in reliably and even threaten with an ohko (given the right amout of bulk), while camperupt evo thretens them all in some way, be it with stab eq or fire blast. bulky waters are a different but they arent exactly difficult to beat with celebi/kingdra or whoever. I'm sure we've all also heard of zapdos.

since camerupt/celebi are heatran weak you can throw in something like gyara/starmie and you pretty much have all offesnive threats covered save tar, but being weak to all of their stabs hes not exactly switching in and setting up.



I think fanboyism played apart in the selection process and that farfetchd isnt as ~interesting as camperupt right now, as someone pointed out fight/fly are common enough in OU right now because they are great types. if chomp comes back.. thats different but right now i think we should consider camerupt as a serisou candidate..

Given all the great things about camperupts potential evo already, we would be free to work on inhancing instead of creating which is the purpose of evo isnt it?


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I'm not posting this for nothing. The only reason im insisting so hard is because the community is extremely 50/50 right now and i think adding cameruprt to the race would really make the commuitys choice more clear..
 
Now that you bring it up a Camerupt evolution would be really cool, and useful to boot...unfortunately this will have to wait for the next EVO project!

Sorry gorm =(
 
caelumrupt would be a great evo. Too bad this came late. As TAY said, next time ... (soon ;D)
 
Farfetch'd as an individual is definitely in much more need of an evolution than Camerupt, but the metagame as a whole is in more need of a Camerupt evo for the reasons stated than it needs Farfetch'd to evolve. I kind of always got the feeling Farfetch'd was meant to be a bit of a 'gimmick' Pokémon like Delibird anyway, and there are plenty of Flying Pokémon which are just like it. Camerupt is fairly unique and has plenty of potential to, as stated, enhance; Farfetch'd needs complete recreation to make a proper evo for it that isn't just a Dodrio/Fearow/etc. etc. clone.

I wish this wasn't too late =(
 
again i have to agree with the people in opposition to fetchd...
sure its a cute little rook (ex tay, irak), but cap has done plenty of "creating". i think we need to "upgrade" since its easier to visualise the niche in whch the pokemon will reside. we need to keep the metagame in our heads, not the cuteness of the mon (it pains me to say this, see siggy)

camerupt getting a boot to celebi like stats is pretty much exactly what this metagame needs as far as i can see. fechtd would be fun... and another sweeper meaning everyone needs to carrzy zapdos


plus im tired of flying weak mons in cap xD no fetchd and houndoom is just kind of outclassed by camerupt in too many ways.
 
I completetly agree with you, Camerupt didn't even make it to the polls which means we didn't even have the chance to vote him for this EVO project.
 
eh another argument is that the community is literally deadlocked... do we really want this to be like bush vs gore lol ~__~
 
Houndoom works, but I would've voted for Camerupt if it had appeared in the polls. It's unique, bulky, it can take on many threats, and with the right stat boosts, it might become a top tier OU pokemon. Better Heatran anyone?
 
I agree with you Gorm, Camperupt would probably play better in todays Metagame, but this is a community project, and unfortunately (in some cases) the community votes differentlky to ones personal opinion. As valient as you are, is this thread really going to get anyone anywhere?
 
uh we haven't started a thing yet. we're still in the discussion phase. we aren't losing alot of work except the work put in by darkie. i seriously think anything a potential houndoom evo brings to the table, an evo of camerupt will just do all around better and i challenge someone to go agaisnt me on that.


edit: the way it is right now, the communtiy is completely split over fetchd... i dont think we should start our project off like this. i think the arguments ive presented are honestly enough to convert most people. reopening the pole i tihnk would at least decrease the number of fetchd votes i think (sadly i started it/was irrational about it, sorry. )
 
Camerupt would be great to have an evolution; it would help with so many threats as you have already mentioned. Currently it seems the metagame is in a state of repetition (Zapdos, Heatran, Shaymin-S etc) which ultimately, a Camerupt evolution would at least help with. It's a shame it's a little to late, as has already been said.

We could possibly have put Flash Fire on the Camerupt evolution? That really would be a great, useful evolution.
 
i also like how evo camerupt throws a cog in the wheel of back and forth offense.... he can threaten alot of stuff and prevent alot of sweeps but doesnt exaclty sweep himself..

thats actually a great idea and helps it deal with heatran/zapdos even better
;D but lets not get ahead of ourselves :D
 
Hmm... Flash fire won't really help it as Camerupt already got 4x Fire resistant so Solid Rock would be more usefull reducing Super effective attacks damage.

EDIT: Sorry, i really thought ground resisted fire. I have confused it with rock >_> also im not a rookie...
 
seriously lets not get ahead of ourselves with this. plus youre a rookie and think ground resists fire.

EDIT: jk mate ^_^
 
I agree with you: I'd like to see a Camerupt evo. I do think Camerupt is wonderful and I've often used it, and, if it were more bulky, it would be a wonderful poke! An evo is what it needs.
Something like a bigger, fatter camerupt with high HP and defenses; the attacks at 105 are quite good, and it has a decent movepool too, maybe with some new addictions.
 
I think that a camerupt evo would be far more useful to the metagame than an evo of the gimmicky Fetch. CaP should realise that sometimes its ultra-rigid rules hinder progress.
 
Just because we have a close vote, does not mean we go back and introduce a third option. Camerupt was mentioned in the first discussion, and it didn't get enough support to make the poll. Maybe next time.

Opening threads like this really doesn't help anything. It makes it look like we have no process. It gives the impression to newcomers that anytime someone doesn't like the results of a poll, that they can open a thread and propose a "do-over". I really don't want that headache. It's hard enough to keep everyone on-topic in the regular threads.

While Create-A-Pokemon does not have a perfect process, we have learned many lessons over time. One of those lessons is -- we ALWAYS must keep pushing forward, building each part of the pokemon on top of the previous part. Any attempt to revert previous decisions is utter chaos, even when there is huge support to "go back in time". There is no way it can be done without turning the entire project into a shitstorm of controversy and complaining. We have reverted decisions in previous CAPs, and it has always been a nightmare. Perhaps we will do it again in the future, but there is no reason to do so here.

If the reason for this proposal is because the current poll is close -- all I can say is, "Welcome to the CAP project." It seems like every poll we have these days comes down to a 51%-49% split. We rarely have huge winning margins any more. So, every decision that we make, will usually leave almost half the community dissatisfied. I don't think that is a bad thing. It means we have a large community with diverse opinions, and there are multiple good options presented in every poll. I think it is a sign of a healthy community project. Since this entire project is based on discussion and debate, it really wouldn't be any fun if we all agreed on everything. ;-)

For the record, I love Camerupt and I think it would be a great pokemon to evolve in EVO 2. But, this is EVO 1, and our choices are Farfetch'd and Houndoom.
 
i think it would be interesting to see where votes go now after the dust has settled, but your word is final doug.
 
schofio said:
I think that a camerupt evo would be far more useful to the metagame than an evo of the gimmicky Fetch. CaP should realise that sometimes its ultra-rigid rules hinder progress.
Click to expand...

If you don't like the "ultra rigid rules" why didn't you post an alternative in the policy review.
 
I'd much rather have camerupt, unfortunately no one considered this sooner, but the discussion was open for a few days...at least EVO 1 should be quicker than a normal CAP project

EDIT: To be honest I myself would really support this, because it is fanboy vs. antifanboy and neither pokemon seems like it'll add much to anything, though we have a lot more flexibility with farfetch'd
 
The fact is i feel like we're wasting the time involved in the process on houndoom (in that camperupt evo does everything houndoom evo does but better). farfetchd is really bringing nothing new except a new zapdos/jirachi weak pokemon with an interesting offensive stab combo... which we dont reallyneed lol

moving forward is imporant but i think taking it slow on our first evo project and reconsidering other options is extremely beneficial to a processm and doesn't take from it's rigour.


lastly i feel like i have to atone for propping fetchd so hard at the beginning of this.
 
to be honest as far as im concerned the entire votes in the current thread are fetchd fanboys vs anti fanboy and no pro metagame

sorry but that's a really stupid foot to start the project on. I'd rather take a step back than trip and fall into the pit of "hey another fire type that gets crippled by twave/scizors superpower" (etc etc etc)


I have yet to see a SINGLE argument as to why eitehr current choice is "better for the metagame" than camerupt, and that's what this should be about.


that's how i feel, and im trying to do something about it. please reconsider.

lastly doug, not locking this thread was insanely decent of you, and i really do appreciate it. i also agree completely with your post here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1581101&postcount=59
 
I agree. I feel that it's a rock and a hard place atm because there is barely anything to fix with Houndoom and it's a waste of the resources, and Farfetch'd gives nothing to the metagame at all. I think people are being swayed already and it should be more of a 'hmm I really like this concept but I like this too' hard place/rock thing than a 'I don't want a Farfetch'd evolution but I DON'T WANT HOUNDOOM EITHER help', or 'I don't really care about Houndoom but I am sick of fanboys fine Ill vote for Houndoom'. CaP is people-driven, I think the satisfaction of its participants is far more important than adhering to a process. I also feel that CaP needs to focus more on what the metagame needs than individual Pokémon. Each Pokémon is just 1/493 of it [I'm counting NFEs here as their lack of an evo also contributes], but a Pokémon that meets a requirement of what the metagame needs to balance it out is more urgent than fixing up, say, a generic Pokémon with subpar stats, or tweaking what hardly needs tweaking, if at all.
 
OK

Would a Camerupt evolution be better for the metagame then either? Yes

Will a Farfetch'd evo most likely end up as a slight variation of Staraptor? Yes

The fact remains that is what the community voted, and if you didn't like it why did you wait till half way through the 3rd poll to oppose it.

Just about everyone could see that Farfetch'd would end up on the final poll so why did you not try and sway voters at the start of say the 2nd poll or even the initial discussion, instead of waiting till it was out of your control
 
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