Other 6th Gen Pokemon UU Candidate Speculation Thread

[silenced]

Froslass is gonna be fine in UU. Last gen, it was just really annoying because spin blockers (I don't consider Chandelure a spin blocker, it has terrible switch in opportunities against every spinner) could just stay in on spinners all day long, so the "guaranteed 2 layers" that suicide Lass can set down would basically never ever leave the field. Suicide Lass is gonna be so much worse with Defog, and I think Bulky Lasses will actually need to be played intelligently

I've been using Rose in OU and I believe spikes is still really good. It's harder to use now because it's so much easier to blow away, but it's still not that hard to gain an advantage with them. I think that if you go with a spiker this gen, you should stay 1 hazard "ahead" of your opponent, try to identify their defogger and predict when they wanna come in. Force them to make a decision: either I defog and something nasty happens to my defogger, or i switch out of this horrible matchup but spikes remain on the field. For example, if I've already put something to sleep, Skarm has a free switch in to Rose. If Rose is on the field trying to say.... hit Togekiss with a SE hit, Skarm is gonna feel very comfy switching in. I know he wants spikes off the field, I suspect Skarm is his defogger so I'll switch into Heatran. He now has to decide between blowing away spikes while taking a Fire Blast, or switching in a resist, but continue to take spikes damage.

I see some people overblowing how dead spikes are. Yeah, spikes takes more intelligence to play now, but it's hardly dead. If you stay 1 hazard ahead, it means both players have "used up" the same number of turns on hazard related moves. But, having a spike advantage puts heavy pressure on your opponent to blow them away and you can use that one defog turn to do something really brutal

You greatly underestimate froslass if you think she is fine in UU. Destiny bond is still leaving the match at 5-5 plus a turn wasted to eventually defog the field. The only defogger that doesn't cop it from a fast STAB ice-beam is empoleon, who is becoming a progressively worse pokemon in UU (Especially now with the steel nerf killing a few important resistances). Even then, empoleon, let alone any other defogger really hates a fast taunt. The bulky spin blocker is still a rage inducing pest, who fares arguably even better against defog users as well. The suicide lead will require a fair bit more prediction in using its moves, but its still going to be deadly as hell, and really shouldn't return from BL.

As for roserade...oh dear me UU is going from bad to worse in the hazards department now. With sleep powder and spikes legal on the same set, you just can't force it out with crobat or something similar to get a free defog without being screwed over by sleep. Admittedly with the sleep mechanics no longer being as harsh in gen VI, crobat works reasonably well, but that's still dangerous if there's something to swap into your sleeping crobat. Roserade could also do an annoying suicide lead set, though at least Xatu and crobat can screw that over. Spinning against roserade is still annoyingly difficult as well as even with megablastoise, the type disadvantage or lack of coverage moves to use against it (in hitmontop's case) really hurts every spinner. I strongly suspect Roserade will be deliberately EV'd this gen to specifically deal with megablastoise, and I'd back it to win against it too.

One thing that might help against spikes however is wish-passing. I actually think UU can do wish-passing really well this generation, especially if we can get vaporeon from OU (which is probably reasonable to predict given the perma-rain nerf). You can actually put together a solid triple wish pass core with vaporeon, umbreon and one of sylveon/florges/clefable. That gives you
-A slew of immunties and resistances: Immune to psychic, water, dragon. Resist fire, ghost, dark, steel, bug, fighting, ice
-Some decent disruption tactics: Foul play and synchronize + heal bell shenanigans from umbreon, scald from vaporeon, unaware from clefable to stop boosting sweepers. All teammates except for umbreon can generally fit toxic in on a set too.
-Extremely hard to break on the special side: With unaware clefable, the only serious threat I can think of is LO Shaymin, and only if it consistenly gets the SpD drop from seed flare. Possibly nidoking too, but nidoking is outclassed by nidoqueen, who doesn't have room to run a posion attack to break the fairy of the core.
-Slow pivots (all the eeveeloutions can baton pass, which could help to conserve momentum should you need it)
-SR neutrality
-Not overly affected by sticky web.
-Protect shenanigans: Useful for megamedicham and mienshao

The wish core would appreciate something to swap into ground types though, as well as a solid revenge killer to deal with the mega-fighting types who I think have the best chance to break the core. Crobat would be ideal for these roles, since he can achieve that as well as adding poison and grass resists. Oh and a hazard user would help too :P

 

[noknuckles]

You don't need good matchups against spikers in order to get a defog off. It's not a 1v1 between the defogger and the spiker that's gonna win the hazard war. You just need to get your defogger in against something (anything you have a good matchup against, not necessary rose/lass. The battle is 6v6, not 1v1) and blast the hazards away. You don't need your spinner/defogger to stay in indefinitely against Rose to do its job... Blastoise is gonna get destroyed by Rose, but if you get blastoise in against say... arcanine or something, you've gotten the spin off. You don't need to spin, then stay in and defeat Rose.

Now you could make the argument that Rose would feel safe switching into Blastoise (assuming no Ice Beam, but that's certainly a nice option for Blastoise), and you're up in hazards again since you just spike as toise switches out. And you'd be right in matches where Blastoise spins away hazards that were set by Rose. But that's not always gonna be the matchup. You could have Donphan spin stuff away, and while Donphan doesn't wanna fight Rose, Rose certainly doesn't wanna switch into EQ+Ice shard.

As for Froslass, yeah a well played Froslass is really annoying. You can play around it with statuses or phasing. Yes, I know Taunt exists, but you can attack if you predict Taunt, or status if you predict DBond. Being super careful was just stupid last gen because if you played too careful, congrats you've got 3 layers of spikes on your side, but it's actually possible to blow them away this gen. Not vs Froslass, but in any other matchup where your defogger can comfortably come in (Crobat doesn't wanna switch into Lass, but it can probably come in later against Virizion).

If Roserade stays in UU and if Froslass gets freed from BL, we'll have a pair of very fine spikers with tons of tools to be incredibly annoying, but I'm not gonna say they'll be a problem until I know what other stuff is gonna trickle down from OU. They'll both be great, maybe even be the forces that define the tier, but I don't think they'll be out of control good.

Then again, UU could be like last gen OU with weather spam, and using spikes to turn those 2HKOs into OHKOs might be absolute king. I dunno...

 

[silenced]

252+ SpA (custom) Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Roserade: 214-252 (81.9 - 96.5%)
252+ SpA (custom) Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Roserade: 158-186 (48.7 - 57.4%)

Vs

252 SpA Roserade Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD (custom): 230-272 (70.9 - 83.9%)
252 SpA Life Orb Roserade Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD (custom): 299-354 (92.2 - 109.2%)
0 SpA Roserade Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD (custom): 186-222 (57.4 - 68.5%)

Calcs for megablastoise vs roserade. unless a layer of hazards is up and offensive roserade swaps in on blastoise when it uses ice beam, roserade will always win, short of an unlucky crit or questionable speed creeping on the blastoise users behalf. This is a major issue as this does nothing to stop roserade from relaying hazards right in front of the rapid spinner, or worse, swapping out your spinner for a more useful pokemon only for it to cop sleep powder to the face. That is really not an ideal scenario to be facing down when you need to spin multiple times during a match, much less when you have no recovery whatsoever, and that roserade has no issue swapping in on rapid spins (offensive) and any attack at all (defensive).

As for donphan, a non-STAB ice shard is just silly in UU, even for roserade. That pretty much leaves donphan screwed against anything ungrounded and isn't quad weak to ice, unless you're going with rapid spin + 3 attacks.

Your froslass comments though, are you freakin' kidding me would be my first thought. Do you seriously not understand the mind games of destiny bond? Or do you have no thought for any playstyle not named hyper offense? Even if you do have a pokemon to use as cannon fodder against froslass, which becomes difficult for teams to do so unless they are HO, you still need to find a free turn to defog. That one turn you defog, you better be damn certain you aren't up against any kind of boosting pokemon, and there are going to be quite a few boosting pokemon this generation with the inevitable power creep.

As for OU drops, while we cannot be 100% certain what exactly will drop, I can be certain what styles of pokemon can drop. The majority of them barring dugtrio roughly fall into the following
1. Slow walls that really cannot function against Taunt.
2. Powerful sweepers/wall breakers with the possible capacity to boost given the chance.

Pokemon in the first category have no business dealing with froslass at all, while those in the second category will make sure you are in deep trouble should you dare to think about rapid spin or defog. It's really only a mercy that haxorus is too powerful for UU otherwise that would be a terrible scenario to face down.

If both roserade and froslass end up in UU, the meta will simply be a HO shit-hole. There is nothing good about that.

 

[AOPSUser]

252+ SpA (custom) Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Roserade: 214-252 (81.9 - 96.5%)
252+ SpA (custom) Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Roserade: 158-186 (48.7 - 57.4%)

Vs

252 SpA Roserade Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD (custom): 230-272 (70.9 - 83.9%)
252 SpA Life Orb Roserade Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD (custom): 299-354 (92.2 - 109.2%)
0 SpA Roserade Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD (custom): 186-222 (57.4 - 68.5%)

Calcs for megablastoise vs roserade. unless a layer of hazards is up and offensive roserade swaps in on blastoise when it uses ice beam, roserade will always win, short of an unlucky crit or questionable speed creeping on the blastoise users behalf. This is a major issue as this does nothing to stop roserade from relaying hazards right in front of the rapid spinner, or worse, swapping out your spinner for a more useful pokemon only for it to cop sleep powder to the face. That is really not an ideal scenario to be facing down when you need to spin multiple times during a match, much less when you have no recovery whatsoever, and that roserade has no issue swapping in on rapid spins (offensive) and any attack at all (defensive).

As for donphan, a non-STAB ice shard is just silly in UU, even for roserade. That pretty much leaves donphan screwed against anything ungrounded and isn't quad weak to ice, unless you're going with rapid spin + 3 attacks.

Your froslass comments though, are you freakin' kidding me would be my first thought. Do you seriously not understand the mind games of destiny bond? Or do you have no thought for any playstyle not named hyper offense? Even if you do have a pokemon to use as cannon fodder against froslass, which becomes difficult for teams to do so unless they are HO, you still need to find a free turn to defog. That one turn you defog, you better be damn certain you aren't up against any kind of boosting pokemon, and there are going to be quite a few boosting pokemon this generation with the inevitable power creep.

As for OU drops, while we cannot be 100% certain what exactly will drop, I can be certain what styles of pokemon can drop. The majority of them barring dugtrio roughly fall into the following
1. Slow walls that really cannot function against Taunt.
2. Powerful sweepers/wall breakers with the possible capacity to boost given the chance.

Pokemon in the first category have no business dealing with froslass at all, while those in the second category will make sure you are in deep trouble should you dare to think about rapid spin or defog. It's really only a mercy that haxorus is too powerful for UU otherwise that would be a terrible scenario to face down.

If both roserade and froslass end up in UU, the meta will simply be a HO shit-hole. There is nothing good about that.

It's easy for Mega Blastoise to Spin Spikes in UU though, since no one in their right mind switches Chandelure or Mismagius into him. It doesn't matter if Roserade comes in when you Spin if you swap right out to your Fire-type.

Froslass, though, is just too good for UU. Forget what happens if Kyurem-B drops, Froslass gets you free Spikes and a Destiny Bond. You can't even spin in front of him and the only Defogger that can face him is Empoleon, which gets Taunted.

Also Dugtrio in UU...damn. Talk about removing Fire-types.

 

[silenced]

It's easy for Mega Blastoise to Spin Spikes in UU though, since no one in their right mind switches Chandelure or Mismagius into him. It doesn't matter if Roserade comes in when you Spin if you swap right out to your Fire-type.

Froslass, though, is just too good for UU. Forget what happens if Kyurem-B drops, Froslass gets you free Spikes and a Destiny Bond. You can't even spin in front of him and the only Defogger that can face him is Empoleon, which gets Taunted.

Also Dugtrio in UU...damn. Talk about removing Fire-types.

I seriously hope UU avoids dugtrio, as I really hate those sash revenge sets, and base 120 speed in a meta that has lacked reliable priority would make it a decent force.

The main issue with roserade is that while mega blastoise can spin, it cannot stop roserade from relaying the hazards. Basically while you can stop the spikes from creeping beyond one layer (say by switching out mega blastoise to a fire type), roserade will still have one free turn to lay a new layer of spikes while a fire type switches in.

Maybe an example would make my point easier to understand. Lets have 2 players, A and B. A has choice scarf darmanitan and megablastoise, while B has a physically defensive slowbro and roserade of debatable EV's (despite what I listed earlier, roserade has a number of different EV spreads it can plausibly run, depending on speed creeping required).

So lets say for some reason or another we've reached a point in the game where player A has mega blastoise on the field and player B has their slowbro. Player B noting darmanitan is still alive doesn't want to risk slowbro to a mega-launcher dark pulse, so B switches to roserade. A takes advantage of this and rapid spins to get rid of the spikes.

At this point, A has mega blastoise on the field vs a roserade that is pretty much at full health (or to be specific, it will not be OHKO'd by ice beam). Player A now has a major problem. He could switch to darmanitan and threaten roserade out so as to avoid more layers of spikes being reset, but that leaves a risk of darmanitan being hit by sleep powder, and being incapacitated as a result, or possibly sludge bomb and poison chance for good measure. Blastoise could stay in but roserade is also legal with spikes + sleep powder + leaf storm, which leaf storm would OHKO megablastoise, or put it to sleep with sleep powder.

Lets say A goes to darmanitan, and roserade lays a layer of spikes while the switch happens. Knowing slowbro will tank darmanitan, A predicts the slowbro switch-in and uses U-turn and hits slowbro to go back to mega blastoise. Slowbro recovers a bit of health with leftovers and now we're back to the starting scenario. This can repeatedly happen, though megablastoise will lose out because it has no reliable recovery and will be worn down by swapping on that one layer of spikes that is consistently reset. A double switch could be done so that roserade comes in on mega blastoise, only to be facing a darmanitan, but then darmanitan starts taking spikes damage, which for a pokemon that uses flare blitz, is not ideal.

In this case, swapping to another pokemon while predicting the roserade switch-in would be the best course of action. This however is not ideal at all for player A as player B has the upper hand in predicting through these turns, and has had ample opportunities to do something other than repeat laying spikes, only for them to get spun (e.g roserade could use sleep powder instead, or leaf storm, or slowbro could use thunder wave, or he could double switch in response to darmanitan or mega blastoise), while A only has the double switch to truly utilize in order to get out of this problematic scenario.

Hopefully that explains the problem that while mega blastoise is an unbelievably good rapid spinner in getting rid of hazards on the field, it doesn't do enough to ensure that hazards do not come back onto the field.

Oh and froslass can seriously go die in a hole, though I'm sure I've said that already. I very much agree with that statement that its too much for UU.

 

[RufflesPro]

It's easy for Mega Blastoise to Spin Spikes in UU though, since no one in their right mind switches Chandelure or Mismagius into him. It doesn't matter if Roserade comes in when you Spin if you swap right out to your Fire-type.

Froslass, though, is just too good for UU. Forget what happens if Kyurem-B drops, Froslass gets you free Spikes and a Destiny Bond. You can't even spin in front of him and the only Defogger that can face him is Empoleon, which gets Taunted.

Also Dugtrio in UU...damn. Talk about removing Fire-types.

I have to agree with all those statements. Mega Blastiose has Mega Launcher Dark Pulse to scare, if not kill, ghost types, Mega Blastiose is one of the best spinners.

Also as stated, UU is filled with Fire types, all that are super common and always in use, such as Scarf Darmanitan and Chandelure, Arcanine, Houndoom, and Victini, the only pokemon that is not effected by Dugtrio is Rotom-Heat, but that isn't the point, the fact that Dugtio can revenge kill all of those pokemons, those very common UU pokemons, is just too much, Dugtrio has never failed with Arena Trap + EQ as it always have been an effective strategy, not to mention Sucker Punch to annoy people even more. If Dugtrio falls to UU, not only Fire types, but everything weak to EQ will have a hard time against, such as Raikou, Both Nidos, Cobalion, Emploeon, and even Rhyperior and Registeel. And 120 Base speed + Focus Sash + Sucker Punch guarantees 2 turns, so I think UU, no this gen as a whole, will need more hazards, thus more spinners and the need of Defogers, thus fast taunt users, such as Frosslass and Crobat, making them OU.

Following this logic, Forsslass will probably never drop into UU this Gen, especially with STAB Ghost being the most powerful STAB in the meta game.

 

[AOPSUser]

I have to agree with all those statements. Mega Blastiose has Mega Launcher Dark Pulse to scare, if not kill, ghost types, Mega Blastiose is one of the best spinners.

Also as stated, UU is filled with Fire types, all that are super common and always in use, such as Scarf Darmanitan and Chandelure, Arcanine, Houndoom, and Victini, the only pokemon that is not effected by Dugtrio is Rotom-Heat, but that isn't the point, the fact that Dugtio can revenge kill all of those pokemons, those very common UU pokemons, is just too much, Dugtrio has never failed with Arena Trap + EQ as it always have been an effective strategy, not to mention Sucker Punch to annoy people even more. If Dugtrio falls to UU, not only Fire types, but everything weak to EQ will have a hard time against, such as Raikou, Both Nidos, Cobalion, Emploeon, and even Rhyperior and Registeel. And 120 Base speed + Focus Sash + Sucker Punch guarantees 2 turns, so I think UU, no this gen as a whole, will need more hazards, thus more spinners and the need of Defogers, thus fast taunt users, such as Frosslass and Crobat, making them OU.

Well, Rotom-H and Chandelure.

Actually Dugtrio was NU for a bit of last gen before people figured out how to use him in OU. I guess no one ever figured out how to use him in UU. Or maybe his absence caused the lack of Fire-types?

 

[noknuckles]

I'm seeing your point. The only way to keep spikes off your field is to outlast Roserade which is not easy. Blastoise would have to spin on Rocks+Spikes, then switch out. You'd then have just spikes instead of Rocks+Spikes, but Blastoise already took damage switching into rocks+spikes, and will take more damage switching into spikes, not to mention any damage it may have taken fighting other stuff. M Blastoise has no recovery (aside from rest?), whereas Roserade gets an item, Giga Drain, natural cure+Rest, so it's unlikely for Roserade to die before Blastoise. Wearing it down with Ice Beam -> switch out won't always work as Rose has pretty nice recovery options. You'd then have to rely on an absurdly risky double Ice Beam predicting a spike, but if you do that it's likely Blastoise will have no more chances to spin (Rose dies, player brings in something that can beat Blastoise, next time Blastoise comes in he's coming in on rocks+2 spikes).

I ran some calcs and wow you were right about Ice Shard on Donphan. Fully invested, it does around 40% to Staraptor. I was thinking invested Ice Shard would be helpful against the anticipated Dragon onslaught, but it looks like it'll be useful against just Flygon and if it drops, Noivern (my guess is that neither Salamence nor Zygarde will drop, atleast at first).

You've convinced me on Froslass. I'm thinking back to how I dealt with it. I basically lead Rhyperior and clicked Rock Blast. A surprising number of players would Taunt trying to block stealth rock and I'd just be up 6v5 for no reason. Some players would just spike in my face as usual. Some players would DBond. DBond is really awkward. It's 5v5 with no hazards so it seems fair, but I've just lost one of my most important defensive mons. The best way I can think of to deal with it is to dragon tail it out, then never ever let it come back in, but that's a super perfect scenario and unlikely to happen. Atleast outlasting Froslass with the UU spinners isn't as scary a task as outlasting Rose, but you really need to nail it on the switch-in. I really don't feel like losing Blastoise to DBond

 

[RufflesPro]

I'm seeing your point. The only way to keep spikes off your field is to outlast Roserade which is not easy. Blastoise would have to spin on Rocks+Spikes, then switch out. You'd then have just spikes instead of Rocks+Spikes, but Blastoise already took damage switching into rocks+spikes, and will take more damage switching into spikes, not to mention any damage it may have taken fighting other stuff. M Blastoise has no recovery (aside from rest?), whereas Roserade gets an item, Giga Drain, natural cure+Rest, so it's unlikely for Roserade to die before Blastoise. Wearing it down with Ice Beam -> switch out won't always work as Rose has pretty nice recovery options. You'd then have to rely on an absurdly risky double Ice Beam predicting a spike, but if you do that it's likely Blastoise will have no more chances to spin (Rose dies, player brings in something that can beat Blastoise, next time Blastoise comes in he's coming in on rocks+2 spikes).

I ran some calcs and wow you were right about Ice Shard on Donphan. Fully invested, it does around 40% to Staraptor. I was thinking invested Ice Shard would be helpful against the anticipated Dragon onslaught, but it looks like it'll be useful against just Flygon and if it drops, Noivern (my guess is that neither Salamence nor Zygarde will drop, atleast at first).

You've convinced me on Froslass. I'm thinking back to how I dealt with it. I basically lead Rhyperior and clicked Rock Blast. A surprising number of players would Taunt trying to block stealth rock and I'd just be up 6v5 for no reason. Some players would just spike in my face as usual. Some players would DBond. DBond is really awkward. It's 5v5 with no hazards so it seems fair, but I've just lost one of my most important defensive mons. The best way I can think of to deal with it is to dragon tail it out, then never ever let it come back in, but that's a super perfect scenario and unlikely to happen. Atleast outlasting Froslass with the UU spinners isn't as scary a task as outlasting Rose, but you really need to nail it on the switch-in. I really don't feel like losing Blastoise to DBond

That's why I call over-over predicting, that's the way to play it, that's smart for many reasons:
-Specs Timid Frosslass wouldn't kill it;
252 SpA Choice Specs Froslass Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 270-319 (62.2 - 73.5%)
-The opponent would use Spikes only if he had Focus Sash, thinks you have Rock Slide / Stone Edge, and if he is willing to sacrifice it for 2 layers.
- Rock Blast gets rid of the Sash.
- Predicting rocks, they would use Taunt for nothing (unless you had rocks but didn't use it, un-allowing you to put it for 2 more turns.)

However, Somehow over-over-over predicting and using the rather risky on the first turn Destiny Bond, which is as you said weird, but it depends on luck and will work.

Fully invested Donphan can 2HKO Flygon, Garchomp, Salamce, and Noivern, all those are amazing because they can't OHKO Donphan.

 

[Magnemite]

Well, Rotom-H and Chandelure.

Actually Dugtrio was NU for a bit of last gen before people figured out how to use him in OU. I guess no one ever figured out how to use him in UU. Or maybe his absence caused the lack of Fire-types?

The reason Dugtrio got much usage at all was to trap opposing weather inducers on sun and occasionally rain teams. With Ninetails almost certainly dropping and Politoed likely to be in Stage 0 of UU at the very least, Duggy could see usage in early XY UU and possibly into the future depending how weather dependent it ends up being, if at all. However, it was mainly used for trapping Ttar, which obviously won't be UU anytime soon. Hippowdon laughs at anything Dugtrio does, so Dugtrio's niche will be very small at best.

 

[Todd]

The reason Dugtrio got much usage at all was to trap opposing weather inducers on sun and occasionally rain teams. With Ninetails almost certainly dropping and Politoed likely to be in Stage 0 of UU at the very least, Duggy could see usage in early XY UU and possibly into the future depending how weather dependent it ends up being, if at all. However, it was mainly used for trapping Ttar, which obviously won't be UU anytime soon. Hippowdon laughs at anything Dugtrio does, so Dugtrio's niche will be very small at best.

I'm not so sure. Tyranitar still cold stops a lot of pokemon that would love it's easy removal. Talonflame, Gengar, and Alakazam will all breathe easier if its not an issue, and theyre some of the top in the game. Considering how often Ttar is used in this meta, I can imagine people would get some duggy support if they've got a team built around a Talonflame sweep, persay, or just if they need someone to get rid of all the damn ttars.

Also, you missed Heatran. Dugtrio was used to remove heatrans nearly as often as ttars. When he comes back into play in december, Dugtrio will probably see some more usage. But I agree that he will see a little less use, most likely. With weather not as prominent, it's not as big a deal for sun to remove opposing heatrans, etc. Don't think he'll drop though. Or at least I hope not.

 

[AOPSUser]

I'm not so sure. Tyranitar still cold stops a lot of pokemon that would love it's easy removal. Talonflame, Gengar, and Alakazam will all breathe easier if its not an issue, and theyre some of the top in the game. Considering how often Ttar is used in this meta, I can imagine people would get some duggy support if they've got a team built around a Talonflame sweep, persay, or just if they need someone to get rid of all the damn ttars.

Also, you missed Heatran. Dugtrio was used to remove heatrans nearly as often as ttars. When he comes back into play in december, Dugtrio will probably see some more usage. But I agree that he will see a little less use, most likely. With weather not as prominent, it's not as big a deal for sun to remove opposing heatrans, etc. Don't think he'll drop though. Or at least I hope not.

I actually think I'm the only person using Dugtrio in OU right now lol. And it doesn't just trap Tyranitars, it shits on Excadrills, can do a little bit of damage to Aegislash and kill Aegislash with EQ+Sucker Punch (which no one expects), and fucks over Blisseys. Not to mention with Sash+Reversal it hits really hard for like one turn before being fodder. Oh, and it has a good chance to kill Klefki too, especially if they are not running Reflect.

I still haven't seen anyone else use a Dugtrio in OU haha. Which means if it falls to UU, then stuff like Arcanine and Houndoom will take a giant hit.

 

[Todd]

I actually think I'm the only person using Dugtrio in OU right now lol. And it doesn't just trap Tyranitars, it shits on Excadrills, can do a little bit of damage to Aegislash and kill Aegislash with EQ+Sucker Punch (which no one expects), and fucks over Blisseys. Not to mention with Sash+Reversal it hits really hard for like one turn before being fodder. Oh, and it has a good chance to kill Klefki too, especially if they are not running Reflect.

I still haven't seen anyone else use a Dugtrio in OU haha. Which means if it falls to UU, then stuff like Arcanine and Houndoom will take a giant hit.

Tentacruels, too. For some reason every team I build has trouble getting through tentacruel, and It's so friggin nice to be able to hit the 'remove tentacruel' button. Works especially well if it's their spinner, and I can set up hazards without worry. I've gotten KOs on M-Lukes and M-gars if the sash stays unbroken, too, though that doesn't happen too often. Which always surprises me on the M-Gar bit. I think people either forget it loses levitate or that it can switch out due to being ghost-ish. Hell, though. That's why I cannot accept it dropping. The metas already shit on every fire type, UU was the only place I could actually have a choice of varied fire types to use.

But damn. Didn't even think of using it to kill klefki. fuk klefki

 

[RufflesPro]

I happen to use Dugtrio in game, it outspeed a lot of stuff even with Adamant. The amounts of Charizards I've got from Stone Edge, Aegislashes from EQ + Sucker Punch, Talonflame after surviving brave bird thnx to Sash and Stone Edge, Salamances and Tyranitars is too damn high, however Rotom-W is everywhere, can't get past that with Dugtrio. Not seen Many Excarill or Tenta in-game, funny, well possibly because 3 pokemons don't need hazards

 

[TheDuckChris]

What about Doublade for UU? Seems like it would be a great physical wall, although it is weak to eq, which a lot of uu physical threats carry. Still, high attack and solid defense make for a reasonable choice. Wish it got recovery though

 

[Hidious]

What about Doublade for UU? Seems like it would be a great physical wall, although it is weak to eq, which a lot of uu physical threats carry. Still, high attack and solid defense make for a reasonable choice. Wish it got recovery though

It could get some use. Big problem with him though are the 1000 fire types in uu

 

[RufflesPro]

So agree with you, however it will be super nice in RU. W/ Shadow Sneak, Eviolite, and Iron Head + SD, it should have some nice stuff going there.

 

[jamashawalker]

Idk I'm questioning the same usage of fire types we had last gen with all the powerhouse dragons we have coming down. Hydreigon, Goodra, Tyrantrum, Dragagle(who is insanely hard to take down), zygarde, and while frail still decent with roost is Noivern. Thats quite a number of defensive dragons

EDIT: Actually scratch that! Noivern has the same defenses as crobat, same move pool and more, slightly slower, a bit more powerful, different typing. We're looking at a different version of crobat with this one

 

[Tressed]

Idk I'm questioning the same usage of fire types we had last gen with all the powerhouse dragons we have coming down. Hydreigon, Goodra, Tyrantrum, Dragagle(who is insanely hard to take down), zygarde, and while frail still decent with roost is Noivern. Thats quite a number of defensive dragons

EDIT: Actually scratch that! Noivern has the same defenses as crobat, same move pool and more, slightly slower, a bit more powerful, different typing. We're looking at a different version of crobat with this one

Its also worth noting that some Fire types might end up going OU this gen, now that Politoed got nerfed.

 

[jamashawalker]

Its also worth noting Y some Fire types might end up going OU this gen, now that Politoed got nerfed.

That too. Though we also gained two additional buff fire types charizard Y&X. Though who knows if X will stay OU

 

[Upstart]

The Stats from November specifically pokebank 1850+paints the picture of metagame that will be drastically different than anything that we have seen before. With Salamence dropping to UU, I am excited to see how all of the events unfolds.

Some interesting observations using these stats as a benchmark:

• Hyper Offense seems quite potent as the offensive threats dropping seem to outweigh the defensive threats
• Sticky Web proves quite potent as many of the top offensive threats are grounded\
  • Perhaps counter balancing hyper offense?
• Weathers of all types will likely be UU
  • Hippowdon will need leftovers and will likely discourage the use of smooth stone
  • Due to having a timer Rain and Sun will resort to hyper offense
• With Roserade, Deoxys D, Deoxys S, and Frosslass spikes will undoubtably remain prevalent
  • Can the Defog boost compensate for these hazard stacking giants?
• DragMag in UU
  • Are our few fairies up for the challenge?
• Has Staraptor found a tier that it can call home?

Some Tier Changes Likely to Occur

• Jirachi is certainly on the cusp of OU and UU and it will be interesting to see where she ends up
• Both Manaphy and Keldeo will most certainly become prominent figures in OU with their great utility.
• Smeargle, Infernape, Galvantula, Klefki, Breloom, and possibly Donphan will most likely drop to UU to make room for the powerful threats that have been neglected in order to use new toys
• Thundurus will likely find home in OU
• Mandibuzz and Crawdaunt could integrate themselves into the new UU.

 

[Patrick1088]

Froslass was def powerful last gen and equally as frustrating. To me it was the equivalent of deo-d in early bw2. Rock blast from rhyperior or cincinno or a taunt from sableye were some if the only ways to stop it. We also have a potential gem in imprison klefki with spikes that stops froslass from spike stacking. Froslass may be too powerful but well see what this new gen brings...

Im also excited to see what happens to staraptor this gen. With talonflame taking centerstage in ou i could see staraptor finally having real checks a x will be viable in uu. Avalugg anx eviolite doublade beat staraptor thanks to thei bulk. I dont even think close combat 2hkos avalugg but need to confirm...

 

[alexthegreat14]

I think that heliolisk is going to be an excellent pokemon in the uu meta. While being slightly slower and less powerful, the water imunity through dry skin along with a better move pool will be enough to bring heliolsik to a powerful threat in uu, outclassing the afformentioned raikou. I have been running heliolisk in OU and while it has been extremely useful, in ou it is more of a niche pokemon.

 

[McGrrr]

If Sticky Web becomes commonplace, Empoleon will be the Azumarill of UU due to Defiant:

[18:51] <%McGrinch> !data defiant
[18:51] <%TIBot> Defiant: This Pokemon's Attack is boosted by 2 for each of its stats that is lowered by a foe.

Except it gets Swords Dance access...

Empoleon @ Splash Plate / Leftovers
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 248 HP / 8 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Knock Off / Filler

 

[Patrick1088]

If Sticky Web becomes commonplace, Empoleon will be the Azumarill of UU due to Defiant:

[18:51] <%McGrinch> !data defiant
[18:51] <%TIBot> Defiant: This Pokemon's Attack is boosted by 2 for each of its stats that is lowered by a foe.

Except it gets Swords Dance access...

Empoleon @ Splash Plate / Leftovers
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 248 HP / 8 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Knock Off / Filler

This is okay for surprise factor but is highly situational. As far as i can tell sticky web is pretty limited with galvantula and smeargle being reallu viable. Galvantula has the very good niche of beating every magic boujce user with its stab moves (thunder for xatu and bug buzz for espeon anx mega absol) and will most likely be ou imo.

I think defog empoleon will be more common due to the ability to switch in easily. Somebody made a note of defiant bisharp being a threat due to sticky web, but i think the limited distribution wont affect the lower tiers as much unless you feel like running ariados...

In regards to azumarril being replace i think the next best thing is diggersny whicb is lightyears faster than azumarril with access to swords dance, priority and spikes if it feels like it!