Battle Tree Discussion and Records

[spacez52]

I'm about to start breeding for a Battle Tree Singles Scizor in Gen 6 and I wanted to know what the preferred set is these days? Bulky with Roost? Bug Bite or Superpower along with Bullet Punch? Always Swords Dance...right? What about EVs and Nature... always Adamant or is Jolly something to consider with the speed benchmarks? Thanks in advance for helping me make my favorite Pokemon a beast in the Tree!

 

[venomous72]

I'm about to start breeding for a Battle Tree Singles Scizor in Gen 6 and I wanted to know what the preferred set is these days? Bulky with Roost? Bug Bite or Superpower along with Bullet Punch? Always Swords Dance...right? What about EVs and Nature... always Adamant or is Jolly something to consider with the speed benchmarks? Thanks in advance for helping me make my favorite Pokemon a beast in the Tree!

Mine is the Adamant, Bulky/Roost set with Bullet Punch, Swords Dance, and Bug Bite. Wouldn't have it any other way. Best mon in the tree I think.

 

[hotdogturtle]

Unlike the other global missions this was also the first one that was feasibly abusable by hacking

I don't think so. For the catch Pokemon mission, someone could have given themselves 999 Master Balls and gone on a catching spree. On the other hand, to do what you're saying, it would involve multiple save edits during the time that the mission is active, possibly in between one of more Game Syncs, which is detectable on GF's end and is suspected to have been one of the things that got people caught in the last ban wave (unlike hacking Master Balls which they would only have to do one single time before the mission starts, and would last them through the whole duration). Not to mention that before the island scan challenge started, there was already a known hack to remove the cooldown on scanning QRs.

I said it before and I still believe it, we won because this is the first mission where you can score more than 1 point at a time (and GF set the goal too low considering this). I personally have like 250 BP earned for this mission and I've barely touched the game, just a few casual streaks. It's not uncommon for more active players to earn thousands in a week or two. And like someone said, 2000 BP x 5000 players = 10 million right there (that's 5000 people out of millions of copies of the game sold). Obviously tons of people contributed smaller amounts on top of this, so the average BP per person is even lower. The current total is by no means unreasonable.

 

[The Great Roydinho]

Lost on 70 because Earthquake missed to a Magnezone holding Bright Powder. Feels good.

typical really

 

[spacez52]

Mine is the Adamant, Bulky/Roost set with Bullet Punch, Swords Dance, and Bug Bite. Wouldn't have it any other way. Best mon in the tree I think.

Do you find yourself needing Superpower? Do you use as EVs in HP and Atk? Thanks for the reply!

 

[venomous72]

Do you find yourself needing Superpower? Do you use as EVs in HP and Atk? Thanks for the reply!

I never miss Superpower to be honest (I run the Chomp, Scizor, Fini team). I do run Fire Fang on Chomp to take care of steal types though.

And yes my EV's are focused around HP and Attack but it was a generation or two that I trained him so I can't remember the exact numbers. Pretty sure I followed on of the Smogon EV spreads. And no prob!

 

[Josh C.]

Quadruple digits have been reached...! Reporting an ongoing streak of 1,000 wins in Super Doubles.

Team Sharkanine (100% more Tapu, 200% more shark!) [credit to Level 51 ]
TAPping strings on my UkeLELE as I take a stroll in the pARC-At-NINE, DOing the E SHARP; all the Ma-wile CHOMPing down on that aGAR Jelli-cent3. [credit to randomguy on Discord] (Colour coded and capitalized for easier deciphering)​

Previous write-up @ 500 wins: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/battle-tree-discussion-and-records.3587215/page-71#post-7255793
Battle No. 1,000 vs Cynthia: M8NG-WWWW-WWW5-Vl6M

Recap on the sets

Tapu Lele ("Psy Kid") @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Modest
Ability: Psychic Surge
IVs: 31/28/31/x/x/31 (Bottle Capped)
EVs: 12 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 236 Spe
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Dazzling Gleam
- Energy Ball

Lv. 50 Stats

HP: 147
Attack: 93
Defense: 96
Sp. Attack: 200
Sp. Def: 136
Speed: 145

Energy Ball is the desired coverage move for guaranteed OHKOs on Mega Swampert, Rhyperior and Carracosta.



Sharpedo (F) ("Megalodon") @ Sharpedonite
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Speed Boost --> Strong Jaw
IVs: 31/31/31/27-28/31/31
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Protect
- Psychic Fangs
- Crunch
- Waterfall

Lv. 50 Stats

HP: 145
Attack: 189
Defense: 60
Sp. Atk: 102
Sp. Def: 61
Speed: 147

Psychic Fangs is obvious with the free power boost Psychic Terrain provides (how could you resist not running the move?), with Crunch and Waterfall rounding off the coverage nicely. Ice Fang is largely unnecessary considering Dragons are murdered by Lele; Landorus is the only other notable 4x weak mon I can think of, but it can't handle the lead onslaught for long anyway.



Garchomp (M) ("Sharknado") @ Groundium Z
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Rough Skin
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
- Earthquake {Tectonic Rage}
- Dragon Claw
- Poison Jab
- Protect

Lv. 50 Stats

HP: 183
Attack: 182
Defense: 116
Sp. Attack: 90
Sp. Defense: 105
Speed: 169

Tectonic Rage as the Z-Move of choice to take on resilient Rock and Steel types, evasion boosters such as Regigigas and Blissey4, and to reduce the need for regular Earthquake to be used as much as possible. Poison Jab is exclusively for Shiinotic/Whimsicott (I guess Virizion/Breloom too), and is preferred over Substitute or Swords Dance in that regard; even if I'm risking Effect Spore activating with the former.



Arcanine (M) ("Superberus") @ Sitrus Berry
Nature: Modest
Ability: Intimidate
IVs: 31/0/31/31/31/31
EVs: 228 HP / 156 Def / 36 SpA / 20 SpD / 68 Spe
- Burn Up
- Helping Hand
- Protect
- Toxic

Lv. 50 Stats

HP: 194
Attack: 103
Defense: 120
Sp. Attack: 137
Sp. Defense: 103
Speed: 124

As explained previously, running Burn Up means Arcanine needs only slight SpA investment to guarantee KOs on some key threats (M-Mawile, M-Metagross, Excadrill, Rotom-Frost, Lurantis34 etc.), while simultaneously taking advantage of his typeless status against opponents that would initially have a SE hit on him. Toxic does miss from time to time, but proves invaluable alongside Protect for chipping away at foes that my other team members would have trouble breaking through. It's also the go-to move if I find myself facing a potential Trick Room user without Sharpedo currently on the field.

I can't frankly think of a whole lot more to add here, as the premise of this team is fairly simple; you've got a stable Lele/Chomp/Arcanine core to work with, firing off strong attacks to diminish the opponent's team with little fuss. There's no denying that Lele is powerful, but if it can't make enough of an impact against either opposing lead (can't KO or heavily damage for Sharpedo/Garchomp to finish off after, risks being KO'd in return, Steel types etc.), then that's an obvious sign to switch it out. There's rarely an instance where Garchomp or Arcanine coming in to replace Lele would be threatened by whatever mon would be targeting that slot; Lickilicky3's Quick Claw-Body Slam shenanigans is the only thing I can think of off the top of my head, but you have Intimidate for that at least. In simpler words, Lele isn't getting enough bang for your buck if it doesn't KO at least one mon before you let it go down (in most cases).

Sharpedo commonly uses Protect on the first turn to shield herself from harm and gain a Speed boost in the process, thanks to its frailty acting as attack (shark)bait; though this strategy isn't as foolproof as it was in the Maison. Then she can do either of three things on the next turn:-
1. Stay in regular form and attack: on occasion you'll be able to do this and still KO whichever mon is staring you down; this grants you greater flexibility on the following turn with deciding whether to keep Sharpedo in or switch out, which is great.

2. Mega Evolve right away and attack: more often than not the significant power boost is required to immediately deal with a threat, not to mention the Speed change; while small, it's crucial for outspeeding M-Alakazam at +1. Click Crunch straight away against any Psychic/Ghost type that could use TR, but keep in mind that Lele will need to chip in against Cresselia or Slowbro.

3. Switch out: Sometimes it's simply best to scout one or both of the opponents' sets and switch accordingly; red flags include potential Z-Crystal holders like Raikou/Rotom-Mow/Mienshao, which KO or at least deal extreme damage through Protect against regular Sharpedo. This strategy works especially well against dual Electric leads that Psychic Fangs or Psychic can't ensure the KO on (75% chance vs. Electivire3/4 still isn't worth risking when you could easily switch to Garchomp).


I'd thought about providing a how-to-play list of sorts against a variety of different leads, but soon realized how foolhardy this would be to undertake; the sheer number of possible matchups in Doubles would make it nigh-impossible for me to do it proper justice. Besides, firsthand experience as opposed to arduous theorymonning is infinitely more valuable in my opinion, in which case I'd rather break down a couple of the more interesting Battle Replays so you can get more of an idea of how I tend to play with the team, and what goes through my head turn by turn. I'll also include a few others with different varieties of matchups, just to give a broader picture on how the team fares against them. But before I do, I'll leave my suggestion on how to react if you see the single most threatening mon to this team....Alakazam.

....switch, switch Sharpedo out immediately; without Protecting, without Mega Evolving and Protecting, just switch. There's a good chance M-Alakazam Tracing Speed Boost will steamroll through the rest of the team unless you're able to get two Moonblasts off before going down (but in my eyes Sharpedo is the key to eliminating Zam, so Lele should attack the other slot unless it has nothing better to do). Depending on what's in the other slot, you'll have to decide whether Garchomp or Arcanine will be needed less, just so Sharpedo can come back in after the sac, Protect, MEGA EVOLVE to outspeed M-Zam at +1 (don't have to if it's Alakazam4), then Crunch to finally be rid of it.


Battle No. 520 vs Wally: 59PW-WWWW-WWW6-WS4G

Notes

Turn 0:- Tapu Lele/Sharpedo vs. Altaria/Magnezone
- Not making the same mistake I did previously with these leads, I Mega Evolve Sharpedo and launch a Crunch + Moonblast into the Altaria; the combination would KO Altaria4, whereas Moonblast would OHKO Mega Altaria and the Crunch would then go into Magnezone, breaking a potential Sturdy.

Turn 1:- Tapu Lele used Moonblast on Altaria, Mega Sharpedo used Crunch on Altaria - KO.
Magnezone used Thunder Wave on Mega Sharpedo - paralyzed.
- Turns out to be Altaria4 and Magnezone3 (Bright Powder); Moonblast + Crunch take care of the former, at the cost of Sharpedo now being paralyzed.

Turn 2:- Wally sends out Gallade to replace Altaria; Tapu Lele/Mega Sharpedo vs. Gallade/Magnezone
- Moonblast OHKO's Gallade regardless of it being Mega or not, so that's exactly what I go for; this also gives Sharpedo a chance at landing a Crunch on Magnezone3, since neither Charge Beam nor Flash Cannon is a guaranteed knockout on either Sharpedo/Lele.

Turn 3:- Gallade Mega Evolved, Tapu Lele used Moonblast - KO.
Magnezone used Thunder Wave on Tapu Lele - paralyzed.
Mega Sharpedo broke through paralysis and used Crunch on Magnezone - avoided the attack.
- Lele eliminates Mega Gallade but also takes a Thunder Wave from Magnezone, which also avoids Sharpedo's Crunch, unfortunately.

Turn 4:- Wally sends out Garchomp to replace Mega Gallade; Tapu Lele/Mega Sharpedo vs. Garchomp/Magnezone
- Still not that worried about Magnezone since I have my own Garchomp's Tectonic Rage in the back, I'm willing to leave both Lele and Sharpedo open to attack to get that free switch-in; knowing it can't be Mega, Scarf Chomp would have to roll the dice if it locked into Outrage, Chomp4 wouldn't KO either without a crit, so I go for Moonblast into that slot along with another Crunch into Magnezone. I suppose switching either out for Arcanine to Intimidate the Garchomp could've been an alternative option, but I didn't like the idea of preserving Lele/Sharpedo only to potentially get fully paralyzed later on.

Turn 5:- Garchomp used Sandstorm, Tapu Lele used Moonblast on Garchomp - KO.
Mega Sharpedo broke through paralysis and used Crunch on Magnezone - ~35%.
Magnezone used Flash Cannon on Tapu Lele - 1%. Tapu Lele dies to Sandstorm.
- Revealed to be Garchomp4, it merely sets up the sand as Lele manages to get the KO (75% in my favour). Sharpedo also manages to hit Magnezone before it takes Lele down, the amount of damage not really important so much as breaking Sturdy potentially. The trade-off grants a free switch-in for Garchomp, which will secure the win.

Turn 6:- I send out Garchomp to replace Tapu Lele; Garchomp/Mega Sharpedo vs. Magnezone
Now I'm free to simply Tectonic Rage Magnezone to finish things up!

Battle No. 546 vs Pokemon Breeder Lori: VJEG-WWWW-WWW6-WS4R
- Displaying how amazingly well Mega Sharpedo and Arcanine can fare against pure TR teams.

Battle No. 588 vs Ace Trainer Hashim: 4G8W-WWWW-WWW6-WS55

Notes

Turn 0:- Tapu Lele/Sharpedo vs. Pinsir/Walrein
- Two potential holders of OHKO moves, I Protect Sharpedo and go for the guaranteed KO on Pinsir with Psychic, no matter which set it ends up being. Pinsir4 could outspeed and target Lele with Guillotine as well, but in my experience it has preferred using X-Scissor on Sharpedo. Treating the situation as if Walrein4 was sitting there, there would also be the chance for Lele to miss had I targeted the walrus instead, so this seemed like the play with the least potential to bite me in the butt.

Turn 1:- I Protected Sharpedo, Pinsir Mega Evolved.
Tapu Lele used Psychic on Mega Pinsir - KO. Walrein used Sheer Cold on Tapu Lele - KO.
- Pinsir goes down as Walrein lands its first Sheer Cold in return. Not ideal but at least I have a free switch-in and an unharmed, +1 Sharpedo to work with in the following turn.

Turn 2:- Hashim sends out Heracross to replace Mega Pinsir, I send out Garchomp to replace Tapu Lele; Garchomp/Sharpedo vs. Heracross/Walrein4
- I decide to bring in Garchomp as it can deal the most amount of damage to Walrein4 in one hit (guaranteed to hit, too), and damage is what I need.

Turn 3:- - I Mega Evolve Sharpedo and use Psychic Fangs on Heracross - KO. Garchomp uses Tectonic Rage on Walrein4 - ~25%. Walrein4 uses Sheer Cold on Mega Sharpedo - avoids.
- Walrein not hitting its second Sheer Cold is all I could ask for, which it thankfully didn't.

Turn 4:- Wally sends out Aerodactyl to replace Heracross; Garchomp/Mega Sharpedo vs. Aerodactyl/Walrein4
- Walrein is still the bigger threat here even at 25% health; Aerodactyl34 would likely target Sharpedo and shouldn't KO either without a crit, so not Protecting and attacking with both would give me two chances at taking Walrein down before it gets a chance to Rest.

Turn 5:- Mega Sharpedo uses Psychic Fangs on Walrein4 - KO. Aerodactyl uses Earthquake - Sharpedo 46%, Garchomp 63%. Garchomp uses Dragon Claw on Aerodactyl - ~30%.
- I thankfully connect on Walrein4 the first time and eliminate it, Aerodactyl4 locks into Earthquake while Dragon Claw does around 70% back. The following turn Mega Sharpedo outspeeds and cleans up with Waterfall.

Battle No. 643 vs Veterain Aino: E9QW-WWWW-WWW6-WS58
- Arcanine switch-in covered a potential Reflect from Uxie, as Mega Sharpedo would no longer be able to KO Metagross with Crunch. This however allowed me to bring Lele right back in on the expected Brick Break while Arcanine got rid of MegaGross with Burn Up; a good example of a less than ideal matchup, but where things can quicky turn back in your favour by keeping a cool head.
Battle No. 718 vs Scientist Cadel: FKCG-WWWW-WWW6-WS5C
Battle No. 838 vs Pokemon Center Lady Perri: YZXW-WWWW-WWW6-WS5N

 

[Zephyrman]

Love your teams Josh. I robbed your Tapu Koku/A-Raichu/Pelipper/Kartana team and I might have to steal this one, looks fun! Nice job man.

 

[ReptoAbysmal]

I don't think so. For the catch Pokemon mission, someone could have given themselves 999 Master Balls and gone on a catching spree. On the other hand, to do what you're saying, it would involve multiple save edits during the time that the mission is active, possibly in between one of more Game Syncs, which is detectable on GF's end and is suspected to have been one of the things that got people caught in the last ban wave (unlike hacking Master Balls which they would only have to do one single time before the mission starts, and would last them through the whole duration). Not to mention that before the island scan challenge started, there was already a known hack to remove the cooldown on scanning QRs.

I said it before and I still believe it, we won because this is the first mission where you can score more than 1 point at a time (and GF set the goal too low considering this). I personally have like 250 BP earned for this mission and I've barely touched the game, just a few casual streaks. It's not uncommon for more active players to earn thousands in a week or two. And like someone said, 2000 BP x 5000 players = 10 million right there (that's 5000 people out of millions of copies of the game sold). Obviously tons of people contributed smaller amounts on top of this, so the average BP per person is even lower. The current total is by no means unreasonable.

Fair enough. I was more suspicious just because of how quickly it climbed on the first day, but ultimately it's true that there wasn't a whole lot of work to do for the amount of people that would attempt it.

 

[cocomunga]

Just lost on super doubles battle 164. I believe I owe the loss to missing Flare Blitz against Articuno. In the end I use Ice Beam and pray for a Freeze. It didn't Freeze.

The team is the same as I posted before on my 100th win.

NoCheese Edit: Link to the team of Talonflame / Buzzwole / Mega Blastoise / Clefairy is here.

AFPW-WWWW-WWW6-X3RA

 

[Mr. Querty]

I have been testing out a hyper-offence TR team, and had modest success (43 wins with a slightly modified team, 27 with this one. Both due to a mix of hax and misplays.) Would like any suggestions for improvements (I can rebreed mons or find new ones from old gens, but I can't access move tutor moves.)

The current team:

Oranguru (F) ("Bonzi Buddy") @ Mental Herb
Nature: Sassy
Ability: Inner Focus
IVs: 0 Spe
EVs: 252 HP/252 SpD/4 Def
- Trick Room
- Instruct
- Reflect
- Light Screen

Primary trick room setter, with massive offencive pressure via Instruct. EV's are nothing special, but with max Spd investment, Intimidate support, Inner Focus, and Mental Herb, it can almost always set TR unless it is afflicted with a status condition. Instruct is a given, as it turns M-Mawile into a destructive monster, Drampa as a powerful spread attacker, and Araquanid as powerful water spam. The last two moves are mostly filler, they were initially Taunt and Foul Play, but I replaced them with Dual Screens to give the rest of my team enough bulk to survive powerful attackers, especially after Trick Room ends. I might want Protect/Safeguard to avoid status, but in general I never really used it's last two moves much.

Mawile (M) ("Jaws 2") @ Mawilite
Nature: Brave
Ability: Intimidate --> Pure Power
IVs: 0 Spe
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 SpD
- Iron Head
- Crunch
- Swords Dance
- Protect

With the highest existent Attack stat thanks to Pure Power, maximum investment, Swords Dance, and Instruct, M-Mawile is a force of mass destruction. Depending on the situation, I either lead with a Swords Dance, strike an immediate threat, Protect to avoid status, or switch to a teammate. Plus, it has solid defence due to Intimidate and bulk due to its typing. Once Trick Room is set, Mawile goes all out on the offence. Iron Head is it's most accurate STAB move, and has solid neutral coverage with Crunch. I initially ran Play Rough, but it has an unreliable accuracy and generally worse neutral coverage (After a Swords Dance, about nothing can survive a neutral hit.) Don't really want to change much here, though if anything, Protect isn't used that much.

Drampa (M) ("FOXY GRANDPA") @ Life Orb
Nature: Quiet
Ability: Cloud Nine
IVs: 0 Spe
EVs: 252 HP/252 SpA/4 SpD
- Hyper Voice
- Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam

The team's only special attacker, posing a threat to its massive power, spread STAB, and coverage. I initially ran a Dragonium-Z Draco Meteor set, but it had poor synergy with Instruct and Life Orb gives greater overall power. Hyper Voice provides a powerful STAB that works well with Instruct to target both opponents, with great neutral coverage and reliability. The rest of the set is just me trying to round out its coverage to take down specific threats, and provides a variety of opportunities to score super-effective hits. Cloud Nine is to counter weather teams. I didn't run Protect again, largely because the team is so offencive and wants to finish battles before Trick Room is, though I am open to replacing Ice Beam.

Araquanid (M) ("Torrentula") @ Choice Band
Nature: Bold
Ability: Water Bubble
IVs: 0 Spe, average SpA
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Def
- Liquidation
- Lunge
- Scald
- Mirror Coat

While lacking depth, Araquanid provides an excellent switch in for Mawile, as it has a high Special Defence and can counter the Fire and Ground types that threaten it. Choice Band leaves it locked into one move, which can be annoying, but the power is worth it as Liquidation is almost always the move it wants to use. Without the Water Bubble boost, few other moves are worth using. Lunge provides an option against Grass types and is mostly used for it's ability to lower the target's attack. Scald and Mirror Coat are both filler moves that I never used, and I am willing to replace either.

Generally, I find the team balanced typewise, and rarely find a typing weakness. Theoretically, special electric attackers provide a threat, but they are generally too fast for TR. My main issues are physical walls/tanks at times when Drampa can't switch in or Mawile is already threatened, and status effects like sleep and confusion delaying or preventing Trick Room.

 

[hypno28]

Generally, I find the team balanced typewise, and rarely find a typing weakness. Theoretically, special electric attackers provide a threat, but they are generally too fast for TR. My main issues are physical walls/tanks at times when Drampa can't switch in or Mawile is already threatened, and status effects like sleep and confusion delaying or preventing Trick Room.

Your team is probably a little too fast. I would replace one of your 'mons with something that has a base Speed stat no higher than 30. I've been using Torkoal (base 20) and it's key to my team being reliable because it underspeeds enemy teams that are set up for TR. If you want to keep Araquanid, Torkoal wouldn't be a good fit, but Escavalier is another powerful base-20 'mon (I've never used it, so I can't tell you how good it is here). Wishiwashi, Slowbro (and Mega) and Snorlax all have base-30 Speed. I would also expect the lack of a Grass move on your team to be an issue (and no Dragon move on Drampa?).

Having Mawile's Intimidate (also, technically it has Huge Power, not Pure Power ;) ) must help, but I'd still be concerned about Oranguru's vulnerability to certain physical hits on Turn 1. You might want to consider shifting some SpD EVs into Defense. The only other thing is the Nature you have listed for Araquanid. I think maybe you meant to type Brave, but if it's actually Bold you should re-breed that.

Edit: You mentioned status getting in the way of setting up TR. Using something with Fake Out (basically Hariyama is the only option) to lead would help you deal with that (and double hits to Oranguru), but that would mean really reshaping your team.

 

[mirage_drag0n]

After multiple attempts with the AI, I finally made it to Multi-Battle #50. The AI is Veteran Candy with Latias-4 (Lead Mega - DPulse/TWave/Psychic/Roost) and Virizion-4 (Chesto - Rest/SD/SSword/LBlade).

So far I've been using Jolly CB-Chomp (EQ/DClaw/PJab/RSlide) and Mega-Scizor (BP/XScissor/SD/Protect) but I REALLY don't want to get to battle #50 and just lose to Red and Blue.

Should I switch up my team so I have a higher chance of beating red and blue?

Here's their possible pokes for reference:
Red - Venusaur-3, Charizard-3, Blastoise-3, Lapras-3, Snorlax-3, Venusaur-4, Charizard-4, Blastoise-4, Lapras-4, Snorlax-4
Blue - Pidgeot-3, Alakazam-3, Machamp-3, Aerodactyl-3, Exeggutor-2, Rhyperior-3, Gyarados-3, Arcanine-3, Tyranitar-3, Pidgeot-4, Alakazam-4, Machamp-4, Aerodactyl-4, Rhyperior-4, Gyarados-4, Arcanine-4, Tyranitar-4

I have the following battle ready pokes: Tapu Koko, Tapu Bulu, Xurkitree, Nihilego, Pheromosa, Kartana, Greninja, Alolan-Marowak, Magnezone, Mimikyu, Araquanid

 

[ReptoAbysmal]

Your team is probably a little too fast. I would replace one of your 'mons with something that has a base Speed stat no higher than 30. I've been using Torkoal (base 20) and it's key to my team being reliable because it underspeeds enemy teams that are set up for TR. If you want to keep Araquanid, Torkoal wouldn't be a good fit, but Escavalier is another powerful base-20 'mon (I've never used it, so I can't tell you how good it is here). Wishiwashi, Slowbro (and Mega) and Snorlax all have base-30 Speed. I would also expect the lack of a Grass move on your team to be an issue (and no Dragon move on Drampa?).

Having Mawile's Intimidate (also, technically it has Huge Power, not Pure Power ;) ) must help, but I'd still be concerned about Oranguru's vulnerability to certain physical hits on Turn 1. You might want to consider shifting some SpD EVs into Defense. The only other thing is the Nature you have listed for Araquanid. I think maybe you meant to type Brave, but if it's actually Bold you should re-breed that.

Edit: You mentioned status getting in the way of setting up TR. Using something with Fake Out (basically Hariyama is the only option) to lead would help you deal with that (and double hits to Oranguru), but that would mean really reshaping your team.

The only things that outspeed 0-speed base 36/42 pokes are some Iron Ball holders, Shuckle, Mega Camerupt and Escavalier. The main Iron Ball user of worry is Conkeldurr4, whom without Drampa present is pretty much guaranteed to spend its turn trying to Fling its item at Oranguru, which you Protect and then have many ways to safely kill it with no speed advantage.

Mega Camerupt has a potential 2HKO on Araquanid with its 3rd set (Ancientpower) and accomplishes lol with its fourth set. It is also one of the reasons I dislike Torkoal, because if this guy shows up you've basically given it Drought to work with and not done much else. Torkoal won't OHKO with even specs Earth Power while Camerupt more than easily does. Torkoal's sun-boosted Eruption is moderately more powerful than neutral M-Camerupt's and that's all it has over it. That said, getting the jump on Escavalier isn't irrelevant because it's the one thing that is making me reconsider what I'm doing with my team. The 3rd and 4th sets are really dangerous in their own right and difficult to OHKO without fire or boosts. So I'll give Torkoal that one. Walls the hell out of it, too.

I don't think his team is too fast at all, though when leading with something at base 50 speed (Mawile or Hariyama) it'll require foregoing TR initially to OHKO a Shiinotic or something to prevent Spore from being used.

I might try Torkoal for a little in place of Drampa or something to give the IEDs a spin, which may improve my opinion on it. Without Oranguru next to it I don't see it bringing anywhere near as much to the table as it should to justify using it.

 

[hypno28]

The only things that outspeed 0-speed base 36/42 pokes are some Iron Ball holders, Shuckle, Mega Camerupt and Escavalier. The main Iron Ball user of worry is Conkeldurr4, whom without Drampa present is pretty much guaranteed to spend its turn trying to Fling its item at Oranguru, which you Protect and then have many ways to safely kill it with no speed advantage.

Mega Camerupt has a potential 2HKO on Araquanid with its 3rd set (Ancientpower) and accomplishes lol with its fourth set. It is also one of the reasons I dislike Torkoal, because if this guy shows up you've basically given it Drought to work with and not done much else. Torkoal won't OHKO with even specs Earth Power while Camerupt more than easily does. Torkoal's sun-boosted Eruption is moderately more powerful than neutral M-Camerupt's and that's all it has over it. That said, getting the jump on Escavalier isn't irrelevant because it's the one thing that is making me reconsider what I'm doing with my team. The 3rd and 4th sets are really dangerous in their own right and difficult to OHKO without fire or boosts. So I'll give Torkoal that one. Walls the hell out of it, too.

I don't think his team is too fast at all, though when leading with something at base 50 speed (Mawile or Hariyama) it'll require foregoing TR initially to OHKO a Shiinotic or something to prevent Spore from being used.

I might try Torkoal for a little in place of Drampa or something to give the IEDs a spin, which may improve my opinion on it. Without Oranguru next to it I don't see it bringing anywhere near as much to the table as it should to justify using it.

Yeah, it's basically Escavalier that makes it a concern to me, especially when Oranguru has no Defense investment. I don't know how much Intimidate mitigates the danger of a Turn-1 KO, but Escavalier is likely to create problems regardless. (Also, I can't resist pointing out that it's "who without Drampa present....") One thing I'll say for Torkoal is that, in using leads of Oranguru and Hariyama, I've found it usually gets into battle with Oranguru still alive and being able to Instruct its Eruption means you can KO tons of things that resist it (but obviously there's no guarantee you'll still have Oranguru).

 

[venomous72]

So I am restarting Y/ORAS for funsies. I am going to rebreed/move tutor a Metagross. Moveset I was thinking is:

Iron Head
Bullet Punch
Zen Headbutt
Thunderpunch

Does that seem like the best moveset? Ice punch is also an option but I will typically be running Chomp with this set (or maybe lum berry Nite) so those will take care of other Dragons, and Tapu Fini handles Rock/Ground crap.

 

[Smuckem]

Are you running Ice Beam on Fini? If so, Thunder Punch works fine. Otherwise, Ice Punch is certainly an option. While Hammer Arm does have accuracy and Speed drop issues, and Brick Break does suffer from a lack of power, you also have those to run with, especially if you choose Dragonite and have to lay the hurt on opposing Steels some way other than EQ.

I myself am always interested to see how well the Old Faithful Alligross fits in a modern environment, so if you're feeling ballsy, are willing to forego some coverage, and are adept enough in Singles to know under what circumstances Megagross can safely set up...Agility's there.

 

[venomous72]

Are you running Ice Beam on Fini? If so, Thunder Punch works fine. Otherwise, Ice Punch is certainly an option. While Hammer Arm does have accuracy and Speed drop issues, and Brick Break does suffer from a lack of power, you also have those to run with, especially if you choose Dragonite and have to lay the hurt on opposing Steels some way other than EQ.

I myself am always interested to see how well the Old Faithful Alligross fits in a modern environment, so if you're feeling ballsy, are willing to forego some coverage, and are adept enough in Singles to know under what circumstances Megagross can safely set up...Agility's there.

Thanks for the response. I am actually just doing Surf and Moonblast on Fini. My current team of Chomp, Scizor, Fini doesn't run any Ice moves and got to 91 on my good run, and basically Metagross would be taking Scizor's spot (just for fun, Scizor is a better option I think).

The Chomp list runs Fire Fang which usually handles steel types. Bulky water types that also know crap like Thunder (looking at you Lapras1/3) are usually what I am scared of. That said, Ice Punch would be pretty good against all the grass types. Crap. First world problems.

 

[Frodo]

Hey so, I have a question about movesets on Pokemon, is it against forum rules to have a streak with a team that contains moves obtainable in ORAS but not in Sun/Moon? As in does the fact that I have a Conkeldurr running Ice Punch mean that I can't submit a streak?

 

[Kanburi]

Hey so, I have a question about movesets on Pokemon, is it against forum rules to have a streak with a team that contains moves obtainable in ORAS but not in Sun/Moon? As in does the fact that I have a Conkeldurr running Ice Punch mean that I can't submit a streak?

I'm pretty sure Pokemon with move tutor moves from ORAS are eligible for the leaderboard.

 

[MrMarc]

Hey so, I have a question about movesets on Pokemon, is it against forum rules to have a streak with a team that contains moves obtainable in ORAS but not in Sun/Moon? As in does the fact that I have a Conkeldurr running Ice Punch mean that I can't submit a streak?

That's not a problem. Bank has been out for almost a couple of months, so everything a Pokémon was capable of learning since the days of Ruby / Sapphire on the GBA is permissible for use in the rankings of every game since.

The only thing to get you removed from the leaderboard would be submitting a streak with moves a Pokémon cannot legitimately obtain in any way possible, such as a Dragon Dance Garchomp.

So by all means, run Ice Punch Conk, as he learns it through Move-Tutor in ORAS and you can then transport it through Bank to Sun / Moon.

 

[The Great Roydinho]

Quadruple digits have been reached...! Reporting an ongoing streak of 1,000 wins in Super Doubles.

Team Sharkanine (100% more Tapu, 200% more shark!) [credit to Level 51 ]
TAPping strings on my UkeLELE as I take a stroll in the pARC-At-NINE, DOing the E SHARP; all the Ma-wile CHOMPing down on that aGAR Jelli-cent3. [credit to randomguy on Discord] (Colour coded and capitalized for easier deciphering)​

Previous write-up @ 500 wins: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/battle-tree-discussion-and-records.3587215/page-71#post-7255793
Battle No. 1,000 vs Cynthia: M8NG-WWWW-WWW5-Vl6M

Recap on the sets

Tapu Lele ("Psy Kid") @

Choice Scarf
Nature: Modest
Ability: Psychic Surge
IVs: 31/28/31/x/x/31 (Bottle Capped)
EVs: 12 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 236 Spe
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Dazzling Gleam
- Energy Ball

Lv. 50 Stats

HP: 147
Attack: 93
Defense: 96
Sp. Attack: 200
Sp. Def: 136
Speed: 145

Energy Ball is the desired coverage move for guaranteed OHKOs on Mega Swampert, Rhyperior and Carracosta.



Sharpedo (F) ("Megalodon") @

Sharpedonite
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Speed Boost --> Strong Jaw
IVs: 31/31/31/27-28/31/31
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Protect
- Psychic Fangs
- Crunch
- Waterfall

Lv. 50 Stats

HP: 145
Attack: 189
Defense: 60
Sp. Atk: 102
Sp. Def: 61
Speed: 147

Psychic Fangs is obvious with the free power boost Psychic Terrain provides (how could you resist not running the move?), with Crunch and Waterfall rounding off the coverage nicely. Ice Fang is largely unnecessary considering Dragons are murdered by Lele; Landorus is the only other notable 4x weak mon I can think of, but it can't handle the lead onslaught for long anyway.



Garchomp (M) ("Sharknado") @

Groundium Z
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Rough Skin
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
- Earthquake {Tectonic Rage}
- Dragon Claw
- Poison Jab
- Protect

Lv. 50 Stats

HP: 183
Attack: 182
Defense: 116
Sp. Attack: 90
Sp. Defense: 105
Speed: 169

Tectonic Rage as the Z-Move of choice to take on resilient Rock and Steel types, evasion boosters such as Regigigas and Blissey4, and to reduce the need for regular Earthquake to be used as much as possible. Poison Jab is exclusively for Shiinotic/Whimsicott (I guess Virizion/Breloom too), and is preferred over Substitute or Swords Dance in that regard; even if I'm risking Effect Spore activating with the former.



Arcanine (M) ("Superberus") @

Sitrus Berry
Nature: Modest
Ability: Intimidate
IVs: 31/0/31/31/31/31
EVs: 228 HP / 156 Def / 36 SpA / 20 SpD / 68 Spe
- Burn Up
- Helping Hand
- Protect
- Toxic

Lv. 50 Stats

HP: 194
Attack: 103
Defense: 120
Sp. Attack: 137
Sp. Defense: 103
Speed: 124

As explained previously, running Burn Up means Arcanine needs only slight SpA investment to guarantee KOs on some key threats (M-Mawile, M-Metagross, Excadrill, Rotom-Frost, Lurantis34 etc.), while simultaneously taking advantage of his typeless status against opponents that would initially have a SE hit on him. Toxic does miss from time to time, but proves invaluable alongside Protect for chipping away at foes that my other team members would have trouble breaking through. It's also the go-to move if I find myself facing a potential Trick Room user without Sharpedo currently on the field.

I can't frankly think of a whole lot more to add here, as the premise of this team is fairly simple; you've got a stable Lele/Chomp/Arcanine core to work with, firing off strong attacks to diminish the opponent's team with little fuss. There's no denying that Lele is powerful, but if it can't make enough of an impact against either opposing lead (can't KO or heavily damage for Sharpedo/Garchomp to finish off after, risks being KO'd in return, Steel types etc.), then that's an obvious sign to switch it out. There's rarely an instance where Garchomp or Arcanine coming in to replace Lele would be threatened by whatever mon would be targeting that slot; Lickilicky3's Quick Claw-Body Slam shenanigans is the only thing I can think of off the top of my head, but you have Intimidate for that at least. In simpler words, Lele isn't getting enough bang for your buck if it doesn't KO at least one mon before you let it go down (in most cases).

Sharpedo commonly uses Protect on the first turn to shield herself from harm and gain a Speed boost in the process, thanks to its frailty acting as attack (shark)bait; though this strategy isn't as foolproof as it was in the Maison. Then she can do either of three things on the next turn:-
1. Stay in regular form and attack: on occasion you'll be able to do this and still KO whichever mon is staring you down; this grants you greater flexibility on the following turn with deciding whether to keep Sharpedo in or switch out, which is great.

2. Mega Evolve right away and attack: more often than not the significant power boost is required to immediately deal with a threat, not to mention the Speed change; while small, it's crucial for outspeeding M-Alakazam at +1. Click Crunch straight away against any Psychic/Ghost type that could use TR, but keep in mind that Lele will need to chip in against Cresselia or Slowbro.

3. Switch out: Sometimes it's simply best to scout one or both of the opponents' sets and switch accordingly; red flags include potential Z-Crystal holders like Raikou/Rotom-Mow/Mienshao, which KO or at least deal extreme damage through Protect against regular Sharpedo. This strategy works especially well against dual Electric leads that Psychic Fangs or Psychic can't ensure the KO on (75% chance vs. Electivire3/4 still isn't worth risking when you could easily switch to Garchomp).


I'd thought about providing a how-to-play list of sorts against a variety of different leads, but soon realized how foolhardy this would be to undertake; the sheer number of possible matchups in Doubles would make it nigh-impossible for me to do it proper justice. Besides, firsthand experience as opposed to arduous theorymonning is infinitely more valuable in my opinion, in which case I'd rather break down a couple of the more interesting Battle Replays so you can get more of an idea of how I tend to play with the team, and what goes through my head turn by turn. I'll also include a few others with different varieties of matchups, just to give a broader picture on how the team fares against them. But before I do, I'll leave my suggestion on how to react if you see the single most threatening mon to this team....Alakazam.

....switch, switch Sharpedo out immediately; without Protecting, without Mega Evolving and Protecting, just switch. There's a good chance M-Alakazam Tracing Speed Boost will steamroll through the rest of the team unless you're able to get two Moonblasts off before going down (but in my eyes Sharpedo is the key to eliminating Zam, so Lele should attack the other slot unless it has nothing better to do). Depending on what's in the other slot, you'll have to decide whether Garchomp or Arcanine will be needed less, just so Sharpedo can come back in after the sac, Protect, MEGA EVOLVE to outspeed M-Zam at +1 (don't have to if it's Alakazam4), then Crunch to finally be rid of it.


Battle No. 520 vs Wally: 59PW-WWWW-WWW6-WS4G

Notes

Turn 0:- Tapu Lele/Sharpedo vs. Altaria/Magnezone
- Not making the same mistake I did previously with these leads, I Mega Evolve Sharpedo and launch a Crunch + Moonblast into the Altaria; the combination would KO Altaria4, whereas Moonblast would OHKO Mega Altaria and the Crunch would then go into Magnezone, breaking a potential Sturdy.

Turn 1:- Tapu Lele used Moonblast on Altaria, Mega Sharpedo used Crunch on Altaria - KO.
Magnezone used Thunder Wave on Mega Sharpedo - paralyzed.
- Turns out to be Altaria4 and Magnezone3 (Bright Powder); Moonblast + Crunch take care of the former, at the cost of Sharpedo now being paralyzed.

Turn 2:- Wally sends out Gallade to replace Altaria; Tapu Lele/Mega Sharpedo vs. Gallade/Magnezone
- Moonblast OHKO's Gallade regardless of it being Mega or not, so that's exactly what I go for; this also gives Sharpedo a chance at landing a Crunch on Magnezone3, since neither Charge Beam nor Flash Cannon is a guaranteed knockout on either Sharpedo/Lele.

Turn 3:- Gallade Mega Evolved, Tapu Lele used Moonblast - KO.
Magnezone used Thunder Wave on Tapu Lele - paralyzed.
Mega Sharpedo broke through paralysis and used Crunch on Magnezone - avoided the attack.
- Lele eliminates Mega Gallade but also takes a Thunder Wave from Magnezone, which also avoids Sharpedo's Crunch, unfortunately.

Turn 4:- Wally sends out Garchomp to replace Mega Gallade; Tapu Lele/Mega Sharpedo vs. Garchomp/Magnezone
- Still not that worried about Magnezone since I have my own Garchomp's Tectonic Rage in the back, I'm willing to leave both Lele and Sharpedo open to attack to get that free switch-in; knowing it can't be Mega, Scarf Chomp would have to roll the dice if it locked into Outrage, Chomp4 wouldn't KO either without a crit, so I go for Moonblast into that slot along with another Crunch into Magnezone. I suppose switching either out for Arcanine to Intimidate the Garchomp could've been an alternative option, but I didn't like the idea of preserving Lele/Sharpedo only to potentially get fully paralyzed later on.

Turn 5:- Garchomp used Sandstorm, Tapu Lele used Moonblast on Garchomp - KO.
Mega Sharpedo broke through paralysis and used Crunch on Magnezone - ~35%.
Magnezone used Flash Cannon on Tapu Lele - 1%. Tapu Lele dies to Sandstorm.
- Revealed to be Garchomp4, it merely sets up the sand as Lele manages to get the KO (75% in my favour). Sharpedo also manages to hit Magnezone before it takes Lele down, the amount of damage not really important so much as breaking Sturdy potentially. The trade-off grants a free switch-in for Garchomp, which will secure the win.

Turn 6:- I send out Garchomp to replace Tapu Lele; Garchomp/Mega Sharpedo vs. Magnezone
Now I'm free to simply Tectonic Rage Magnezone to finish things up!

Battle No. 546 vs Pokemon Breeder Lori: VJEG-WWWW-WWW6-WS4R

- Displaying how amazingly well Mega Sharpedo and Arcanine can fare against pure TR teams.

Battle No. 588 vs Ace Trainer Hashim: 4G8W-WWWW-WWW6-WS55

Notes

Turn 0:- Tapu Lele/Sharpedo vs. Pinsir/Walrein
- Two potential holders of OHKO moves, I Protect Sharpedo and go for the guaranteed KO on Pinsir with Psychic, no matter which set it ends up being. Pinsir4 could outspeed and target Lele with Guillotine as well, but in my experience it has preferred using X-Scissor on Sharpedo. Treating the situation as if Walrein4 was sitting there, there would also be the chance for Lele to miss had I targeted the walrus instead, so this seemed like the play with the least potential to bite me in the butt.

Turn 1:- I Protected Sharpedo, Pinsir Mega Evolved.
Tapu Lele used Psychic on Mega Pinsir - KO. Walrein used Sheer Cold on Tapu Lele - KO.
- Pinsir goes down as Walrein lands its first Sheer Cold in return. Not ideal but at least I have a free switch-in and an unharmed, +1 Sharpedo to work with in the following turn.

Turn 2:- Hashim sends out Heracross to replace Mega Pinsir, I send out Garchomp to replace Tapu Lele; Garchomp/Sharpedo vs. Heracross/Walrein4
- I decide to bring in Garchomp as it can deal the most amount of damage to Walrein4 in one hit (guaranteed to hit, too), and damage is what I need.

Turn 3:- - I Mega Evolve Sharpedo and use Psychic Fangs on Heracross - KO. Garchomp uses Tectonic Rage on Walrein4 - ~25%. Walrein4 uses Sheer Cold on Mega Sharpedo - avoids.
- Walrein not hitting its second Sheer Cold is all I could ask for, which it thankfully didn't.

Turn 4:- Wally sends out Aerodactyl to replace Heracross; Garchomp/Mega Sharpedo vs. Aerodactyl/Walrein4
- Walrein is still the bigger threat here even at 25% health; Aerodactyl34 would likely target Sharpedo and shouldn't KO either without a crit, so not Protecting and attacking with both would give me two chances at taking Walrein down before it gets a chance to Rest.

Turn 5:- Mega Sharpedo uses Psychic Fangs on Walrein4 - KO. Aerodactyl uses Earthquake - Sharpedo 46%, Garchomp 63%. Garchomp uses Dragon Claw on Aerodactyl - ~30%.
- I thankfully connect on Walrein4 the first time and eliminate it, Aerodactyl4 locks into Earthquake while Dragon Claw does around 70% back. The following turn Mega Sharpedo outspeeds and cleans up with Waterfall.

Battle No. 643 vs Veterain Aino: E9QW-WWWW-WWW6-WS58

- Arcanine switch-in covered a potential Reflect from Uxie, as Mega Sharpedo would no longer be able to KO Metagross with Crunch. This however allowed me to bring Lele right back in on the expected Brick Break while Arcanine got rid of MegaGross with Burn Up; a good example of a less than ideal matchup, but where things can quicky turn back in your favour by keeping a cool head.
Battle No. 718 vs Scientist Cadel: FKCG-WWWW-WWW6-WS5C

Battle No. 838 vs Pokemon Center Lady Perri: YZXW-WWWW-WWW6-WS5N

i have a sharkanine team and i cant even reach 50 wins before i get absolutely bent over. fml

 

[KingAmphy456]

I've been BP farming mostly using Z Conversion Porygon Z. It has proved to be a pretty good contender to Battle Tree teams, and other BT sweepers I would recommend are Tapu Koko, Xurkitree, Mega Gyarados, and Protean Greninja.

 

[venomous72]

I've been BP farming mostly using Z Conversion Porygon Z. It has proved to be a pretty good contender to Battle Tree teams, and other BT sweepers I would recommend are Tapu Koko, Xurkitree, Mega Gyarados, and Protean Greninja.

I have been working on a Protean Greninja team for weeks and stalled out in the 60's. It's hard to find the right build for him in Singles...

 

[KingAmphy456]

I have been working on a Protean Greninja team for weeks and stalled out in the 60's. It's hard to find the right build for him in Singles...

Why not try running a physical protean Greninja to catch your opponents off guard. It has a very good physical movepool, with moves such as Ice Punch, Gunk Shot, Night Slash, Power Up Punch, Acrobatics, you name it. You can also try using it as a hazard user with toxic spikes, though there are better options since it is very frail...