SM OU [+1800] Really? Registeel-Dragonite stall?

[R8]

First of all, sorry for being very bad at speaking english. I'll try to be understandable <._.>
Bold things are edited.

Let's take a look at the team:


I'm sorry (Sableye-Mega) @ Sablenite
Ability: Parnkster EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SpD Careful Nature
- Protect
- Will-O-Wisp
- Knock Off
- Recover

There is el famoso Mega sableye. It can check several entry hazards setters in the tiers, just like the mighty ferrothorn, and is often an important pokemon against opposing stall teams. It's also a great check to Medicham mega, which otherwise could be very threatening. That's why i'm running a mixed set: the spread allows Mega Sableye to wall both the physical and special sides. I don't use it to check Heatran's offensive variants, there is Dragonite for that.
The moveset is pretty simple: protect to mega evolve safely, and stall out turns through the battle. Will O Wisp can cripple physical oppenents, knock off is always useful against the defensives mons it checks, and recover is, you know, to be unkillable.


Hated thing (Chansey) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 SpD / 252 HP / 252 Def
Bold Nature
- Toxic
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss
- Heal Bell

I thought that recruiting a mon which can wall almost every special attacker in the game could be a good idea. This is a pretty standard set: toxic and sesmic toss are the best ways available for Chansey to deal damages. Soft Boiled is Chansey's strongest STAB for recovery, and Heal Bell take care of status of the team. The spread maximise his physical bulk, allowing chansey to check things if one of my physicals walls is down. Eviolite turn Chansey into the most unkillable unboosted thing in the entire metagame.

Uh (Pyukumuku) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Toxic
- Block
- Spite

PYUKUMUKU! I love this mon. It can act as a great check to physical sweepers, and as a physical wall against Loppuny, if Skarmory is already busy at checking something else. Spite and block allows Pyukumuku to trap and kill threats to stalls: magic guard users (Non toxic Clefable and Reuniculus, which can't do more than 43% with Energy Ball, counting leftovers recovery), non toxic Gliscor, and defensive mons that doesn't carry toxic, letting Pyuku acting as a stallbreaker. Spite also bypass subsitute, which can be great.
If he get paralyzed/burned against stall, it's really great because it allows it to check mons that must toxic him to taking him down, but opposing Sableye must be took down first to be allowed to stallbreak.
Ah yes, it does deal with mega swampert too.


Skeleton army (Skarmory) @ Rocky helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 236 HP / 176 Def / 96 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Counter
- Roost
- Iron Defense
- Defog

I've stole this set from Aurella, from this thread: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/usm-creative-underrated-sets-v2.3628431/. I just put Shed Shell to avoid being trapped by Magnezone. The speed allows it to outspeed Mega Mawile, and wall him, with combination of Roost, Iron defense, and Counter. If you want more details about the way you can play this set, i invite you to read this. (I'm sorry, my english is really too bad to explain.)
Defog is allow it to remove hazards in front of hazards setters like Gliscor or defensive Landorus. This set is really passive, but it doesn't matter: as long it isn't dead, dangerous mons like Tapu Bulu can't doing their work.
Counter can also deal with the super dangerous sword dance kartana.
Actually testing with rocky helmet

Little trick (Dragonite) @ Groundium Z
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Roost
- Defog
- Earthquake
- Ice beam
YES MY GUYS, DEFENSIVE Z MOVE DRAGONITE. Don't underestimate this set: it can checks strongs wallbreakers of the tiers: Choice band Victini, trick victini and blacephalon, sub blacephalon, and Serperior. It can also check offensive heatran with earthquake, and remove the hazards with defog. Having two defoggers allows me to have a great hazard control during the battle, which is great in stall teams. It's combination of resistances can also help to deal with uncommon threats. Z can deal damages to pain split magearna, but it's quite situationnal. I often run icium Z too, to do massive damages to Serperior.
Maybe going to remplace it with Intimidate Salamence, but I need something to take care of Serp and Blacephalon.

Fuck magnezone (Registeel) @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Stealth Rock
- Iron Head
- Rest
- Protect

Why did i put Registeel in this team? Because it can deal with volt switch, which does almost nothing to him thanks to his high special defense. It's a great way to avoid Chansey being worn down by pivots like Magnezone or Tapu Koko. It also checks pretty well Tapu lele and Kyurem-B, and can deal big damages to them with Iron Head. It also checks Tornadus, even with taunt, by forcing it out with a good iron head spam. Rest give a good macthup against Stall, allowing me to stall some PP. Protect is mandatory to check Z moves, and recover some HP with the lefties, which is necessary to counter volt switch strategy. Stealth rocks, because you know, it's stealths rocks. Iron head can deal good damages to Diancie, Kyurem B and Tapu lele.
P.S.: Don't worry, it wall Magnezone: it doesn't care of being trapped.

BIG THREATS:
-Hoopa Unbound: it can kill this team, and resurrect it to kill it again... If you found a counter to this monster, i'm ready to take notes, because i haven't found anything that can deal with him with reliable. I can deal with him only with counter Skarm.
-Pain split Magearna: An underrated set, really. I haven't any way to kill this thing: it wins against every member of this team. I can only hope for a Z crit from dragonite, or a random choke.
-Crauwdant: Never encountered this mon, but i know that i haven't any way to deal with it, outside of Counter skarm.
-Thundurus T with Z Fight

Some replays

I know, i do a lot of missplays, i'm pretty bad at this game but i keep progressing
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-967371528 vs sticky hyper offense
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-965849456 vs rain
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-965211379 vs salty guy
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-969471312 vs Psyschock special hoopa u
If i got some intersting matchups (Vs victini, blacephalon, seperior, volt switch, etc...) i'm maybe going to add some replays there.

I'm at 1800 now

Thanks for reading! It's my best team so far, but it doesn't means it's good. You can give it a try:

The team

I'm sorry (Sableye-Mega) @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SpD
Careful Nature
- Protect
- Will-O-Wisp
- Knock Off
- Recover

Hated thing (Chansey) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Toxic
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss
- Heal Bell

Uh (Pyukumuku) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Toxic
- Block
- Spite

Skeleton army (Skarmory) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 236 HP / 176 Def / 96 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Counter
- Roost
- Iron Defense
- Defog

Little trick (Dragonite) @ Groundium Z
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Roost
- Defog
- Earthquake
- Ice beam

Fuck magnezone (Registeel) @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Stealth Rock
- Iron Head
- Rest
- Protect

 

[737373elj]

Crauwdant: Never encountered this mon, but i know that i haven't any way to deal with it, outside of Counter skarm.

You have no need to worry about that, as Crawdaunt is overrated and is actually very bad in OU, so most people don’t use it

 

[R8]

You have no need to worry about that, as Crawdaunt is overrated and is actually very bad in OU, so most people don’t use it

Oh really? That's a good news.
But it's the case for Hoopa Unbound too, though it's more used

 

[737373elj]

Oh really? That's a good news.
But it's the case for Hoopa Unbound too, though it's more used

No, it’s not the same situation. Hoopa-U is actually usable in OU, and certain teams utilizing it can sweep.
Generally, good checks to Hoopa-U consist of Fast threats (impossible on Stall), Fairy-types and Dark-types. So technically Sableye will do well against Hoopa. If you still find trouble against it, consider replacing Pyukumuku with Clefable, he standard Unaware wall. Clef is a Fairy-type, so possibly a better match-up.

 

[Fayari]

Hi there! That's a great team you got there! I especially like Defensive Z-move Dragonite, and Unaware Pyukumuku. I'm thinking of testing out those Pokemon too.

Looking at your team gives me hope that I can make it to 1700+ elo using my own stall team too. I'm only at 1600+ elo right now, but I hope to see you in ladders in a little while!

Anyway, since I'm lower ladder than you, I don't want to presume anything about how you use your team. Instead, I'll just link you to some better gifs, you can find them here:

http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/

 

[R8]

No, it’s not the same situation. Hoopa-U is actually usable in OU, and certain teams utilizing it can sweep.
Generally, good checks to Hoopa-U consist of Fast threats (impossible on Stall), Fairy-types and Dark-types. So technically Sableye will do well against Hoopa. If you still find trouble against it, consider replacing Pyukumuku with Clefable, he standard Unaware wall. Clef is a Fairy-type, so possibly a better match-up.

It could be a good idea: it can also be a stealth rock user or a cleric with heal bell, which can be useful to give more options for registeel and chansey. I could even replace registeel with regice, which can despite his typing, do the same job. (I didn't took him because he haven't access to stealth rocks).
However, clefable typing let it weak to gunk shot from hoopa. I think Clefable is an inferior option, because it let the team without any solid way to deal with mega swampert, reuniclus, rest talk users, non toxic/Taunt gliscor and clefable, which all can be beaten by Pyukumuku.

Hi there! That's a great team you got there! I especially like Defensive Z-move Dragonite, and Unaware Pyukumuku. I'm thinking of testing out those Pokemon too.

Looking at your team gives me hope that I can make it to 1700+ elo using my own stall team too. I'm only at 1600+ elo right now, but I hope to see you in ladders in a little while!

Anyway, since I'm lower ladder than you, I don't want to presume anything about how you use your team. Instead, I'll just link you to some better gifs, you can find them here:

http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/

Thanks!
Before adding dragonite to your team, make sure that he fits well in: I've take it to counter very specifics threats. If you have troubles against offensive heatran, blacephalon, serperior and victini, this set is perfect for you.
Pyukumuku has a great movepool too, so you can choses his moves depending on what you want to checks: it has access to soak (to toxic opposing poison or steel type, and remove their STAB) gastro acid (removes opponent Ability) rest, counter, screens (lol), and much other things. Be aware that he hates Taunt.
Maybe we are going to have a ladder battle, but it's going to be a very long battle :')
And thanks for the gifs! I'll use them next time

 

[DrPumpkinz]

I would consider running Ice Beam instead of Ice Punch on Dragonite. It hits the relevant Ground-types, Kartana, and some other stuff harder, at the cost of dealing a bit less damage to the other relevant Grass-types. I think it's a worthwhile trade, as the former group tends to be more popular.

Wall of Calcs

0 Atk Dragonite Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 112+ Def Landorus-Therian: 248-292 (64.9 - 76.4%)

0 SpA Dragonite Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 316-372 (82.7 - 97.3%)

That's not even taking Intimidate into account.


0 Atk Dragonite Ice Punch vs. 244 HP / 52 Def Gliscor: 224-264 (63.6 - 75%)

0 SpA Dragonite Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 76 SpD Gliscor: 300-356 (85.2 - 101.1%)


0 Atk Dragonite Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Garchomp: 292-344 (69.5 - 81.9%)

0 SpA Dragonite Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 296-352 (70.4 - 83.8%)

Ice Beam also avoids Rough Skin damage.

0 Atk Dragonite Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 112+ Def Hippowdon: 102-120 (24.2 - 28.5%)

0 SpA Dragonite Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 144 SpD Hippowdon: 142-168 (33.8 - 40%)


0 Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kartana: 73-87 (28.1 - 33.5%)

0 SpA Dragonite Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kartana: 156-184 (60.2 - 71%)


0 Atk Dragonite Ice Punch vs. +1 96 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 118-140 (36.7 - 43.6%)

0 SpA Dragonite Ice Beam vs. 96 HP / 36 SpD Hawlucha: 180-212 (56 - 66%)


0 Atk Dragonite Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pinsir-Mega: 120-142 (44.2 - 52.3%)

0 SpA Dragonite Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Pinsir-Mega: 142-168 (52.3 - 61.9%)




0 Atk Dragonite Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Tangrowth: 114-136 (28.2 - 33.7%)

0 SpA Dragonite Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 94-112 (23.3 - 27.7%)


0 Atk Dragonite Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 212+ Def Tangrowth: 90-106 (22.3 - 26.3%)

0 SpA Dragonite Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 48 SpD Tangrowth: 206-244 (51.1 - 60.5%)

Phys Def is rarer.


0 Atk Dragonite Ice Punch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 146-172 (47.8 - 56.3%)

0 SpA Dragonite Ice Beam vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 136-160 (44.5 - 52.4%)


0 Atk Dragonite Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Tapu Bulu: 124-146 (36.1 - 42.5%)

0 SpA Dragonite Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Tapu Bulu: 98-116 (28.5 - 33.8%)


0 Atk Dragonite Ice Punch vs. 84 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 124-148 (41 - 49%)

0 SpA Dragonite Ice Beam vs. 84 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Bulu: 136-160 (45 - 52.9%)

Not sure which Bulu set is more popular.


0 Atk Dragonite Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 56 Def Amoonguss: 172-204 (39.9 - 47.3%)

0 SpA Dragonite Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 204+ SpD Amoonguss: 112-134 (25.9 - 31%)


Ice Beam is actually a tiny bit weaker than Earthquake against Amoonguss.


There are a few Pokemon on both sides that I didn't include, like Zapdos and Mega Latias, but they beat Dragonite anyway, so it's not very important how hard they're hit. Tangrowth and Amoonguss probably beat this Dragonite set too, but whatever.

Something else to consider is that running Ice Beam would mean running a speed-lowering nature, Relaxed in this case. Oh, and if you keep Ice Punch, you should change the nature to Impish. Bold lowers your Attack.

 

[R8]

I would consider running Ice Beam instead of Ice Punch on Dragonite. It hits the relevant Ground-types, Kartana, and some other stuff harder, at the cost of dealing a bit less damage to the other relevant Grass-types. I think it's a worthwhile trade, as the former group tends to be more popular.

Wall of Calcs

0 Atk Dragonite Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 112+ Def Landorus-Therian: 248-292 (64.9 - 76.4%)

0 SpA Dragonite Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 316-372 (82.7 - 97.3%)

That's not even taking Intimidate into account.


0 Atk Dragonite Ice Punch vs. 244 HP / 52 Def Gliscor: 224-264 (63.6 - 75%)

0 SpA Dragonite Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 76 SpD Gliscor: 300-356 (85.2 - 101.1%)


0 Atk Dragonite Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Garchomp: 292-344 (69.5 - 81.9%)

0 SpA Dragonite Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 296-352 (70.4 - 83.8%)

Ice Beam also avoids Rough Skin damage.

0 Atk Dragonite Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 112+ Def Hippowdon: 102-120 (24.2 - 28.5%)

0 SpA Dragonite Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 144 SpD Hippowdon: 142-168 (33.8 - 40%)


0 Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kartana: 73-87 (28.1 - 33.5%)

0 SpA Dragonite Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kartana: 156-184 (60.2 - 71%)


0 Atk Dragonite Ice Punch vs. +1 96 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 118-140 (36.7 - 43.6%)

0 SpA Dragonite Ice Beam vs. 96 HP / 36 SpD Hawlucha: 180-212 (56 - 66%)


0 Atk Dragonite Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pinsir-Mega: 120-142 (44.2 - 52.3%)

0 SpA Dragonite Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Pinsir-Mega: 142-168 (52.3 - 61.9%)




0 Atk Dragonite Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Tangrowth: 114-136 (28.2 - 33.7%)

0 SpA Dragonite Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 94-112 (23.3 - 27.7%)


0 Atk Dragonite Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 212+ Def Tangrowth: 90-106 (22.3 - 26.3%)

0 SpA Dragonite Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 48 SpD Tangrowth: 206-244 (51.1 - 60.5%)

Phys Def is rarer.


0 Atk Dragonite Ice Punch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 146-172 (47.8 - 56.3%)

0 SpA Dragonite Ice Beam vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 136-160 (44.5 - 52.4%)


0 Atk Dragonite Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Tapu Bulu: 124-146 (36.1 - 42.5%)

0 SpA Dragonite Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Tapu Bulu: 98-116 (28.5 - 33.8%)


0 Atk Dragonite Ice Punch vs. 84 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 124-148 (41 - 49%)

0 SpA Dragonite Ice Beam vs. 84 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Bulu: 136-160 (45 - 52.9%)

Not sure which Bulu set is more popular.


0 Atk Dragonite Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 56 Def Amoonguss: 172-204 (39.9 - 47.3%)

0 SpA Dragonite Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 204+ SpD Amoonguss: 112-134 (25.9 - 31%)


Ice Beam is actually a tiny bit weaker than Earthquake against Amoonguss.


There are a few Pokemon on both sides that I didn't include, like Zapdos and Mega Latias, but they beat Dragonite anyway, so it's not very important how hard they're hit. Tangrowth and Amoonguss probably beat this Dragonite set too, but whatever.

Something else to consider is that running Ice Beam would mean running a speed-lowering nature, Relaxed in this case. Oh, and if you keep Ice Punch, you should change the nature to Impish. Bold lowers your Attack.

Thanks, that's a really useful advice! I've changed dragonite's nature to Relaxed. But it does like 3% less to Serperior, one of the mons he need to checks. I've done the calcs; with ice punch, he has 28% chances to 2HKO, and ice beam is guarranted 3HKO. I guess that it doesn't change anything?

 

[Aurella]

Hey! Thanks for the mention.

That Skarmory set is very old but its EV spread has stood the test of time. TBH I don't really like ID + Counter anymore since you can run into PP stall problems very easily. I haven't used Iron Defense in a long time but if I were to it would most definitely be paired with drillpeck/bb or Iron Head. The former covers for bulu, heracross, and medicham while the latter handles mawile and mega-diancie. If shed shell works for you that's fine, but personally I prefer to say "fuck it" and just go for helm in its enormously more useful anti-offense utility. Counter + ID was meant to work with RH so it's not as effective with shell, but in either case, these days an attacking move is a more efficient partner with ID and would make up for the lack of RH's recoil (if using shed shell) while not running into the issue of PP stall nonsense.

I'm skeptical of Registeel. You should consider using Jirachi over it as it does all the same things as registeel but better imo.

This team still seems pretty vulnerable to a good volt-turn BO and I don't think the current tools in the team punish it enough (mostly in the no electric immunity, no spikes, no rh and only SR).

Try using unaware clef paired with lefties SpD drill over the current steel slot. Drill can function as a form of removal (freeing a slot for Skarmory), but its main purpose here is to soak momentum from tapu koko. With RH back on skarm you'll have a combo that frustrates volt-turn koko lando cores (but is vulnerable to torn rotom volt-turn engines instead). Drill can work as a revenge killer against sand teams - but most importantly it hard walls painsplit mag (since they run fairy electric coverage only)

BIG THREATS:
-Hoopa Unbound: it can kill this team, and resurrect it to kill it again... If you found a counter to this monster, i'm ready to take notes, because i haven't found anything that can deal with him with reliable. I can deal with him only with counter Skarm.
-Pain split Magearna: An underrated set, really. I haven't any way to kill this thing: it wins against every member of this team. I can only hope for a Z crit from dragonite, or a random choke.
-Crauwdant: Never encountered this mon, but i know that i haven't any way to deal with it, outside of Counter skarm.

Consider Intimidate Salamence over Dragonite: It hard walls hoopa (unless it's running ice punch lol), walls band daunt while still functioning as a non-toxic tran check/fogger. Mandibuzz is also an option for crawdaunt/hoopa but is weak to tran. Mandi could work with the earlier clef suggestion as a answer to char-x which clef based stalls tend to struggle with. Further considerations should include putting spikes on Skarmory to frustrate offense/balance matchups.

Just wanted to leave some thoughts with you, lmk how the changes turn out if you end up experimenting with them.

 

[Kenhardt]

Hey! Thanks for the mention.

That Skarmory set is very old but its EV spread has stood the test of time. TBH I don't really like ID + Counter anymore since you can run into PP stall problems very easily. I haven't used Iron Defense in a long time but if I were to it would most definitely be paired with drillpeck/bb or Iron Head. The former covers for bulu, heracross, and medicham while the latter handles mawile and mega-diancie. If shed shell works for you that's fine, but personally I prefer to say "fuck it" and just go for helm in its enormously more useful anti-offense utility. Counter + ID was meant to work with RH so it's not as effective with shell, but in either case, these days an attacking move is a more efficient partner with ID and would make up for the lack of RH's recoil (if using shed shell) while not running into the issue of PP stall nonsense.

I'm skeptical of Registeel. You should consider using Jirachi over it as it does all the same things as registeel but better imo.

This team still seems pretty vulnerable to a good volt-turn BO and I don't think the current tools in the team punish it enough (mostly in the no electric immunity, no spikes, no rh and only SR).

Try using unaware clef paired with lefties SpD drill over the current steel slot. Drill can function as a form of removal (freeing a slot for Skarmory), but its main purpose here is to soak momentum from tapu koko. With RH back on skarm you'll have a combo that frustrates volt-turn koko lando cores (but is vulnerable to torn rotom volt-turn engines instead). Drill can work as a revenge killer against sand teams - but most importantly it hard walls painsplit mag (since they run fairy electric coverage only)



Consider Intimidate Salamence over Dragonite: It hard walls hoopa (unless it's running ice punch lol), walls band daunt while still functioning as a non-toxic tran check/fogger. Mandibuzz is also an option for crawdaunt/hoopa but is weak to tran. Mandi could work with the earlier clef suggestion as a answer to char-x which clef based stalls tend to struggle with. Further considerations should include putting spikes on Skarmory to frustrate offense/balance matchups.

Just wanted to leave some thoughts with you, lmk how the changes turn out if you end up experimenting with them.

Im playing with this team and i found out a bit hard to deal with sand team and kill this like heatran and dragonite. I changed registeel for jirachi and turn out pretty well but i didnt rly understand how i should play skarmory the way u said (im new at this game xD). Btw u said using clef would help but wat i should take off on her place and wat specific set i should use??

 

[R8]

Hey! Thanks for the mention.

That Skarmory set is very old but its EV spread has stood the test of time. TBH I don't really like ID + Counter anymore since you can run into PP stall problems very easily. I haven't used Iron Defense in a long time but if I were to it would most definitely be paired with drillpeck/bb or Iron Head. The former covers for bulu, heracross, and medicham while the latter handles mawile and mega-diancie. If shed shell works for you that's fine, but personally I prefer to say "fuck it" and just go for helm in its enormously more useful anti-offense utility. Counter + ID was meant to work with RH so it's not as effective with shell, but in either case, these days an attacking move is a more efficient partner with ID and would make up for the lack of RH's recoil (if using shed shell) while not running into the issue of PP stall nonsense.

I'm skeptical of Registeel. You should consider using Jirachi over it as it does all the same things as registeel but better imo.

This team still seems pretty vulnerable to a good volt-turn BO and I don't think the current tools in the team punish it enough (mostly in the no electric immunity, no spikes, no rh and only SR).

Try using unaware clef paired with lefties SpD drill over the current steel slot. Drill can function as a form of removal (freeing a slot for Skarmory), but its main purpose here is to soak momentum from tapu koko. With RH back on skarm you'll have a combo that frustrates volt-turn koko lando cores (but is vulnerable to torn rotom volt-turn engines instead). Drill can work as a revenge killer against sand teams - but most importantly it hard walls painsplit mag (since they run fairy electric coverage only)



Consider Intimidate Salamence over Dragonite: It hard walls hoopa (unless it's running ice punch lol), walls band daunt while still functioning as a non-toxic tran check/fogger. Mandibuzz is also an option for crawdaunt/hoopa but is weak to tran. Mandi could work with the earlier clef suggestion as a answer to char-x which clef based stalls tend to struggle with. Further considerations should include putting spikes on Skarmory to frustrate offense/balance matchups.

Just wanted to leave some thoughts with you, lmk how the changes turn out if you end up experimenting with them.

Hello there, thanks for your message!
First of all, skarmory. It's true that i've often got PP Stall issues, especially vs Mega Mawile, and lacking RH is often a great problem. However, i can't afford to have RH on skarm, because if i do so, i'm going to be wrecked by Bulu+Magnezone core, or any strategy like that (But it's worth saying that Magnezone has less usages than Mawile, so it might be an option to increase the viability of this team!So, should I do it?). I prefer keep counter, to have a counterplay against SD Kartana, making Skarm a good response against every classical kartana's set, without having to scout the set.
I've tried Jirachi, but Registeel doesn't care about volt switch from Magnezone and Tapu Koko, but Jirachi can't really take those hits very well. Is not even a problem for registeel to be trapped by Magnezone, since HP Fire is almost always 4HKO (3% chances of 3HKO) after leftovers recovery, and TBolt is 3HKO (Without even factoring extra leftovers recovery from protect!!)
It can also deal with big threats to stall if it isn't already pressured by other mons, like Mega Diancie or KB LO (Even with earth power), and Tornadus T (Which can knock off + taunt, but can't do enough damages to take it down: it's forced out by iron head, and i can use Rest in front of a other mon to recover my HP)

Volt-turn isn't a problem, since i have Registeel (Which doesn't take much from volt switch, and can heal off damages with protect), and two double resistances to u turn in Skarmory and Dragonite.

Drill can be a good idea against pain split magearna: however, i don't feel that it fits well in this team, and it's lacking bulk and viable recovery. And Unaware clef can't do anything against Reuniclus, and can't trap like Pyuku does, and has less bulk than Pyuku. However, Moonblast can help against Gyarados Mega, but it's quite situationnal.

OMG, Salamence is a GREAT idea, i haven't thought about it. Being able to wall Hoopa and Crawdaunt is great, but it loses against Blacephalon and sub Serperior. It also hits harder with EQ, but haven't access to ice beam (It must run HP ice instead). It can also outspeed M Mawile, even with -spe nature, which is valuable. It is also a bit less hazard control reliant, because it haven't Multiscale.
I'm going to test it once, and maybe change other mons to find a way to deal with Serperior and Blacephalon. Honestly, Salamence is a wonderful idea, thanks for it! (And btw, i didn't know that Mandibuzz can deal with Hoopa U and Crawdaunt, but i don't think it fits well in this team, since Dragonite is my main check to heatran :/ )

Im playing with this team and i found out a bit hard to deal with sand team and kill this like heatran and dragonite. I changed registeel for jirachi and turn out pretty well but i didnt rly understand how i should play skarmory the way u said (im new at this game xD). Btw u said using clef would help but wat i should take off on her place and wat specific set i should use??

I think instead of Pyukumuku, since it's the unaware wall.
I didn't often encountered sand teams, can you tell me what were the problem with this archetype please?

 

[Proftreez]

May I offer the suggestion of running the ev spread of 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD with a bold nature on your pyukumuku? The ev spread lets you live a z move into shadow ball from speed boosting blacephalon at full with leftovers. Alternatively you could use confide chansey, which also beats split magearna. For serp, you can run roar on your salamence or even (assuming you use the pyuku spread) skill swap chansey, which prevents the dumb snake from getting boosts, letting you out stall it with registeel. I also agree with aurella's suggestion of running iron head over counter, as I have had problems with pp stall issues, and salamence can take kartana for you. fun looking team btw :)

 

[Legaultt]

What spreads/sets are you trying on the Salamence?

 

[Micktown]

I've played against this team a couple of times on ladder and I've never beaten it. Never thought a Dragonite/Registeel stall would be so frustrating. Nice team. I know why people are using it.

 

[R8]

May I offer the suggestion of running the ev spread of 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD with a bold nature on your pyukumuku? The ev spread lets you live a z move into shadow ball from speed boosting blacephalon at full with leftovers. Alternatively you could use confide chansey, which also beats split magearna. For serp, you can run roar on your salamence or even (assuming you use the pyuku spread) skill swap chansey, which prevents the dumb snake from getting boosts, letting you out stall it with registeel. I also agree with aurella's suggestion of running iron head over counter, as I have had problems with pp stall issues, and salamence can take kartana for you. fun looking team btw :)

The pyuku spread is very interesting, but pyuku really need maximum physical bulk investment in this team, because he is the main physical wall against threats that Skarmory can't handle, like Swampert mega, physical+ice physical coverage, or the rare specs keldeo. He can even remove some pressure from Skarmory, avoiding it from being pressured from multiple threats.
Serp has never been a problem, so i don't need to run skill swap on chansey (Didn't even know that she learn skill swap lol)
Chansey unfortunately can't afford to have Confide in her moveset. However, i'll keep this idea in mind to snipe pple in tournaments, if they try to counter team me with cm magearna.
However it's a really risky choice...
With rocky helmet set, counter is really useful against taunt gyarados or sd kartana, and most of the time skarm haven't problems with PP's against mawile, so i'll kep it.

What spreads/sets are you trying on the Salamence?

I tried max hp with max def or max spdef, with eq + hp ice, but i felt like, in both cases, dragonite does the job better. Dragonite mixed bulk is more useful, even without investment in the special side, and extra power from ice beam with the freeze haxx is nice. And salamence doesn't wall Hooppa U...
However, as a pure physical defensive wall, it does a way better job than dragonite. Building a team around it could be a good idea, but keep it mind that salamence has some difficulties to wall specials threats, like stallbreaker heatran or serperior, or even hp ice landorus.

Salamence isn’t very common in OU so most teams don’t have dedicated checks to it. Do note that most teams have checks to certain Pokemon that can check Salamence at a pinch.
If you’re having trouble with Mence, try Ice Beam Dragonite (if you outspeed it) or Counter from the Skarmory.

You misunderstood him lol, he was asking for defensive salamence sets

I've played against this team a couple of times on ladder and I've never beaten it. Never thought a Dragonite/Registeel stall would be so frustrating. Nice team. I know why people are using it.

Thanks! Happy to see that this team is sometimes seen in the ladder

 

[MrHands]

I keep seeing this post getting bumped by randoms so I'm not sure if you're looking for advice on this team anymore but...

Have you considered running Jirachi > Registeel? Stealth Rock / Iron Head / Wish / Protect does a bit better against CM / Pain Split Mag while not getting popped by random Fightium Z Tapu Lele. If you can find space on Skarm or Chansey for rocks you can run Fire Punch or U-turn (or whatever you want).

Dragonite has the bulk to switch in on two hits from Band Hoopa and surviving a +2 NP hit so if you can keep it healthy you technically have a switch in. If you trade off Ice Beam for Z Fly or Z Dragon Claw you can OHKO Hoopa. Jirachi + Dragonite should handle Serperior until it runs out of Leaf Storm PP so imo it's not a huge threat to you. Make sure to run 248 Hp not 252, as this takes 1 less damage from Stealth Rocks. Z Fly has better coverage but is useless after 1 use while Dragon Claw has shit coverage but at least can chip away at incoming Landos.

Probably don't go Rocky Helmet on Skarm. Magnezone is on 6% of teams at 1825+ so unless you're ready to take the loss every time you see one I would just deal with the lack of chip.

Lastly you mention Crawdaunt but as long as Dragonite is alive you should be fine. Only Crunch deals any real damage, capping at like 30% with Multiscale. If it really gives you trouble you can invest just 56 EVs with a neutral nature to outrun and Roost stall it. Z Fly or Z Dragon Claw both OHKO it.

 

[DYA]

I think changing Chansey's EVs spread to a 252 HP and 252 Def one would be, as having many HP is preferable than having many Def and Spd

 

[R8]

I keep seeing this post getting bumped by randoms so I'm not sure if you're looking for advice on this team anymore but...

Have you considered running Jirachi > Registeel? Stealth Rock / Iron Head / Wish / Protect does a bit better against CM / Pain Split Mag while not getting popped by random Fightium Z Tapu Lele. If you can find space on Skarm or Chansey for rocks you can run Fire Punch or U-turn (or whatever you want).

Dragonite has the bulk to switch in on two hits from Band Hoopa and surviving a +2 NP hit so if you can keep it healthy you technically have a switch in. If you trade off Ice Beam for Z Fly or Z Dragon Claw you can OHKO Hoopa. Jirachi + Dragonite should handle Serperior until it runs out of Leaf Storm PP so imo it's not a huge threat to you. Make sure to run 248 Hp not 252, as this takes 1 less damage from Stealth Rocks. Z Fly has better coverage but is useless after 1 use while Dragon Claw has shit coverage but at least can chip away at incoming Landos.

Probably don't go Rocky Helmet on Skarm. Magnezone is on 6% of teams at 1825+ so unless you're ready to take the loss every time you see one I would just deal with the lack of chip.

Lastly you mention Crawdaunt but as long as Dragonite is alive you should be fine. Only Crunch deals any real damage, capping at like 30% with Multiscale. If it really gives you trouble you can invest just 56 EVs with a neutral nature to outrun and Roost stall it. Z Fly or Z Dragon Claw both OHKO it.

I can't afford to chose Jirachi over registeel, because Registeel is my main way to deal with Volt Switch. His bulk allow it to check Kyurem B and Diancie, and that's something that Jirachi cannot do. And Rest allow it to PP waste opponent in the stall match-up.
Dragonite can't afford to add a stab move to his moveslots, but I could run groundium Z to deal more damages against Hoopa. But thanks for the advice over the gameplan, I'll think about it next time I encounter it.
Rocky Helmet is a great anti offense tool, and is a must to punish u turn. Magnezone isn't often a issue, since it's often paired with mons walled by the rest of my team.
Crawdaunt isn't really a problem, since I don't encounter it very often.

I think changing Chansey's EVs spread to a 252 HP and 252 Def one would be, as having many HP is preferable than having many Def and Spd

Thanks, it was a fail, it was supposed to be 252 HP and 252 Def since the beginning lol

 

[DERPGengar10]

About Pyuk, I feel like you have it on the team for the sake of unaware, and if that's true, you might want to try other unaware mon that can do more than it can like quag or clef. But, if you do have it for a higher purpose, try to see if you can fit soak on its set, because it can allow pyuk to poison steels like cele and ferrothorn and take away their STAB as well.

 

[R8]

About Pyuk, I feel like you have it on the team for the sake of unaware, and if that's true, you might want to try other unaware mon that can do more than it can like quag or clef. But, if you do have it for a higher purpose, try to see if you can fit soak on its set, because it can allow pyuk to poison steels like cele and ferrothorn and take away their STAB as well.

It's true, but i don't see what Quagsire and Clefable can do more than Pyukumuku in this team (Maybe against things with taunt or electric moves?). But if i remove it, i need something against MSwamper and magic guard sweepers... And that's not easy to fit somewhere else. (Any ideas?) It could allows Registeel to run something else instead of Stealth rocks, but i must do big changes in this team to avoid leaving threats unchecked.
Soak is a good idea, but idk where to fit it: Recover is mandatory, toxic is the main reason to run Toxic, and block + spite is always useful against many mons. I could try gastro + soak instead of block + spite, but the oppenent can just switch, and that make some gliscor's matchups just impossibles (Same for block +toxic). Gastro acid + block works well too, but is walled by steel types.

 

[DERPGengar10]

It's true, but i don't see what Quagsire and Clefable can do more than Pyukumuku in this team (Maybe against things with taunt or electric moves?). But if i remove it, i need something against MSwamper and magic guard sweepers... And that's not easy to fit somewhere else. (Any ideas?) It could allows Registeel to run something else instead of Stealth rocks, but i must do big changes in this team to avoid leaving threats unchecked.
Soak is a good idea, but idk where to fit it: Recover is mandatory, toxic is the main reason to run Toxic, and block + spite is always useful against many mons. I could try gastro + soak instead of block + spite, but the oppenent can just switch, and that make some gliscor's matchups just impossibles (Same for block +toxic). Gastro acid + block works well too, but is walled by steel types.

just replace spite. they can't switch and you can poison them

 

[R8]

just replace spite. they can't switch and you can poison them

Block + Toxic + Soak lose against Clefable, Gliscor and Reuniclus, because they are all immune to toxic damages