...Please don't make me put the title here too...
Intro:
Hey, everybody! (Hi, Dr. Nick!) As a long-time lurker but first time poster, I figured I might as well give back to the Smogon community, considering everything I got to learn from you guys. What better way to to contribute than to offer up a team for everyone to blast me for not having done or changed such-and-such and for daring to present such a poor excuse of a team? :nerd:
Anyhow, since every decent RMT here seems to employ some sort of gimmick that contributes to its success, I decided to think up of something that, on the surface, isn't really a gimmick in the “catching someone off guard on the ladder” sense so much as a team-building gimmick: what would a team with no legendaries look like? I'm pretty sure, a few people here have played around with that idea, and someone may have even come up with this exact team (I haven't been lurking for that long). It definitely seems pretty limiting, considering all the useful Pokémon I'd be missing out on: The Latis, the Genies, the Musketeers, Heatran, Mew and all of her expies, etc. Ultimately, I think I managed to churn out a pretty decent team. So, without further ado, let me show you all the fruits of my efforts to create a “No Legends” team!
Note: This team was made as part of a thought experiment more than anything; I haven't done any testing on the ladder with it. For that matter, I've never played on said ladder either. Yeah, I really should stop lurking so much. Still, while theorymon-ing can only take you so far in the team-building process, I feel that this team should hold its own quite well, barring anything I stupidly forgot about (which is probably a lot). Enough typing, let's get to the team itself already!
A closer look:
“Notice that this image file is called Politoed_Swagger. And no, I don't mean the confusion-inducing move...”
Politoed @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
Since I locked myself into rain, it's pretty obvious who I need for the job. Another thing you should know about my team-building process is that I didn't really choose one or two Pokémon and cover their weaknesses and that of the team's as I went along; the team itself kinda came to me at once. Rather than have a core from which others would add to by protecting it, the team itself works more as a sort of intertwined web that is equally dependant on the things make it up.
Enough rambling about my playstyle choice, on to the Pokémon! After some thought, I decided ScarfToed would be the most useful variant to the team. There's a lot of things I could say about this Politoed, but I don't wanna keep you on a single Pokémon for so long, so here's a quick (not) list of its role within the team and its set relative to that role:
“Bitches love my Iron Barbs”
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers / Shed Shell
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP /48 Def / 208 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spe)
Ferrothorn, as a team member, brings a lot of things to the team that are sorely needed: Stealth Rocks, a Steel-type, a check to some Pokémon that would otherwise be very troublesome to deal with *coughgastrodonrotom-wstarmiegyaradoslandorushippowdoncough*.
So yeah. Rocks over Spikes because if you're gonna go with a single entry hazard on your team, you might as well choose the one that makes scrubs cry about how they can't use their most awesomest Charizard anymore. Oh, and something about Volcarona being a pain in the ass otherwise. Leech seed is much needed recovery for when he's my sole reliable check against certain Pokémon (see above), Thunder Wave so that silly legendaries like Thundurus, the Latis, Terrakion and their ilk won't come in expecting a free turn to set-up or down one of my guys and Power Whip so that Ferrothorn checks stuff that he's actually supposed to check (again, see above).
The real issues, though, are the nature/EV spread and the item choice. I basically slapped on the standard spread because I'm too lazy to do calcs against stuff it should be walling for my team (again again, see above), so if anyone wants to offer up a better one, I'm all ears, or eyes in this case. As for the item slot, Lefties is huge for lasting as long as possible, especially when he's my go-to Pokémon against certain threats. On the other hand, I'm thinking Shed Shell would be really handy against those rather annoying MagDrag teams; after all, Leech Seed would mitigate the lost of Leftovers, and I'd much rather not have to face those kind teams with only Scizor to reliably check Dragons, especially when he could be locked into Bullet Punch or Pursuit in order to revenge one of them. As I'm typing this, I'm starting to really see the value of Shed Shell should I end up facing such a team, but man, Lefties is soooo handy...
“Scizor! Digivolve to...Kabuterimon!”
Scizor @ Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: 248 HP /252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -Spe)
What could I possibly add to the most straightforward set you're gonna see here? Actually, it's not that easy: there's still the matter of choosing between Pursuit and Quick Attack. Pursuit's for checkmating Latis locked into Draco Meteor, Gengar and weakened Reuniclus off the top of my head; Quick Attack's for revenge killing Thundurus after Rocks and a couple rounds of Life Orb damage, Volcarona after Rocks and other stuff resistant to Bullet Punch. Err, that's pretty much the extent of the complexity of Scizor here.
“I won't...let you...get away with THIS! *turns into Super Saiyan*”
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spe
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
I did consider Protect over Taunt, if only because of the extra Poison Heal Recovery, the extra scouting and even that Perish Song stalling I mentioned earlier. Still, having a 100% counter to Ferrothorn and a tool for fighting the war against stall is just too awesome for this team to give up. As for Facade over Ice Fang, I felt that the opportunity to hit Rotom-W hard in its smug, little face was too good to pass up; winning against opposing Gliscor and hitting harder against Dragons isn't such a big deal to me when half my team does not care for even SSJ4 Gliscor and Dragons are generally dealt with by basically every other member of the team.
And before you point it out to me, I know the above picture is lacking the signature Super Saiya-jin goldish aura around Gliscor; it's all about the tranquil fury, the aura would have been too much.
“Get a hole blown into you by the rainbow. Taste the rainbow.”
Starmie @ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
“WHO THE HELL THOUGHT MAKING MY SHINY FORM PUKE GREEN WAS A GOOD IDEA!?”
Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Atk / 216 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
This is basically the one member of the team who's not really here to check stuff (not that there isn't annoying stuff he's checking for me). Multiscale + a couple DDs + Outrage + Dragon / Flying typing = some sort of term that emphatically designates unconditional and irreversible fatalism. Like WIN. Let's go with that. I will now retroactively provide another reason I have Taunt on Gliscor: Ferrothorn would make me cry, but he would really reduce Dragonite to an uncontrollable mess of tears and shame. Shame at being walled by something that shouldn't wall him. But them's the kicks when you run Bulky DDNite in the rain.
Waterfall over Brick Break because all that gets me is coverage against Ferrothorn and Empoleon (lol). Might as well have a third Rain abuser on the team. Roost over stuff like Extremespeed because the latter coming from something with so little investing in Attack is meh, and Roost + the HP investment lets me get some extra boosts against stuff like Gengar.
The big thing Dragonite checks, though, is Volcarona. Volcarona in the Sun with no Rocks up is pretty much would be a death sentence for this team without Dragonite. Yeah, yeah, get rocks up and keep them up, win the weather war, blah blah blah, but the lack of a spin blocker and Politoed's frailty makes that a fair bit harder than it sounds, so this kind of insurance against that beast is definitely assuring. Which is why I gotta ask: should I move some EVs over from HP to Attack so that +1 Outrage secures a OHKO against it? I'm a bit wary of doing that, seeing as the bulk is really what allows Dragonite to set up as easily as he does...
Oh, and Lum Berry is kickass. So much easier to set up on stuff wanting to status you. Never really saw the appeal of Lefties for Sand on this set myself, Dragonite should be coming in after someone goes down, anyhow, so Multiscale is still active for one turn if he's been kept safe the whole match.
Changes I'm considering (will probably be changed as the posts trickle in with suggestions):
(I won't bother with re-doing this if there are any changes to the team, there's only so much I can do @_@)
Anyhow, since every decent RMT here seems to employ some sort of gimmick that contributes to its success, I decided to think up of something that, on the surface, isn't really a gimmick in the “catching someone off guard on the ladder” sense so much as a team-building gimmick: what would a team with no legendaries look like? I'm pretty sure, a few people here have played around with that idea, and someone may have even come up with this exact team (I haven't been lurking for that long). It definitely seems pretty limiting, considering all the useful Pokémon I'd be missing out on: The Latis, the Genies, the Musketeers, Heatran, Mew and all of her expies, etc. Ultimately, I think I managed to churn out a pretty decent team. So, without further ado, let me show you all the fruits of my efforts to create a “No Legends” team!
Note: This team was made as part of a thought experiment more than anything; I haven't done any testing on the ladder with it. For that matter, I've never played on said ladder either. Yeah, I really should stop lurking so much. Still, while theorymon-ing can only take you so far in the team-building process, I feel that this team should hold its own quite well, barring anything I stupidly forgot about (which is probably a lot). Enough typing, let's get to the team itself already!
A closer look:
“Notice that this image file is called Politoed_Swagger. And no, I don't mean the confusion-inducing move...”
Politoed @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Focus Blast
- Ice Beam
- Perish Song
Since I locked myself into rain, it's pretty obvious who I need for the job. Another thing you should know about my team-building process is that I didn't really choose one or two Pokémon and cover their weaknesses and that of the team's as I went along; the team itself kinda came to me at once. Rather than have a core from which others would add to by protecting it, the team itself works more as a sort of intertwined web that is equally dependant on the things make it up.
Enough rambling about my playstyle choice, on to the Pokémon! After some thought, I decided ScarfToed would be the most useful variant to the team. There's a lot of things I could say about this Politoed, but I don't wanna keep you on a single Pokémon for so long, so here's a quick (not) list of its role within the team and its set relative to that role:
- General revenge killer alongside Scizor and Starmie, ensuring that my team isn't lacking in the speed department. Notable revenge killables include Excadrill, Bulky variants of Volcarona with prior damage (hopefully Stealth Rocks) and Ninetales
- Timid over Modest to maybe revenge kill up to (but excluding) positive-natured base 130 speed Pokémon. Among the Pokémon that would not have been outsped by Modest ScarfToed are Starmie (although it's not like my ScarfToed can really do much to it anyway...), Azelf, Raikou, and Dugtrio. In other words, no trapping for the kill unless I'm locked into Perish Song (is Dugtrio common on Baton Pass teams?)
- Perish Song is a must for stopping Baton Pass teams dead in its tracks, as well as a last resort against certain sweepers. In the latter case, though, that might not be so useful, since my team isn't really built to stall out the required three turns, what with the lack of Protect
- The choice between Focus Blast and Hidden Power Grass basically came down to whether I wanted to have trouble with Gastrodon / Rotom-W or Ferrothorn / Tyranitar. Ultimately, I found that the latter pairing would be more of a pain than the former to the team, in spite of the fact that Ferrothorn is my only truly reliable check to the former duo, whom I feel are easier to wear down with this team
“Bitches love my Iron Barbs”
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers / Shed Shell
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP /48 Def / 208 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spe)
- Stealth Rock
- Power Whip
- Thunder Wave
- Leech Seed
Ferrothorn, as a team member, brings a lot of things to the team that are sorely needed: Stealth Rocks, a Steel-type, a check to some Pokémon that would otherwise be very troublesome to deal with *coughgastrodonrotom-wstarmiegyaradoslandorushippowdoncough*.
So yeah. Rocks over Spikes because if you're gonna go with a single entry hazard on your team, you might as well choose the one that makes scrubs cry about how they can't use their most awesomest Charizard anymore. Oh, and something about Volcarona being a pain in the ass otherwise. Leech seed is much needed recovery for when he's my sole reliable check against certain Pokémon (see above), Thunder Wave so that silly legendaries like Thundurus, the Latis, Terrakion and their ilk won't come in expecting a free turn to set-up or down one of my guys and Power Whip so that Ferrothorn checks stuff that he's actually supposed to check (again, see above).
The real issues, though, are the nature/EV spread and the item choice. I basically slapped on the standard spread because I'm too lazy to do calcs against stuff it should be walling for my team (again again, see above), so if anyone wants to offer up a better one, I'm all ears, or eyes in this case. As for the item slot, Lefties is huge for lasting as long as possible, especially when he's my go-to Pokémon against certain threats. On the other hand, I'm thinking Shed Shell would be really handy against those rather annoying MagDrag teams; after all, Leech Seed would mitigate the lost of Leftovers, and I'd much rather not have to face those kind teams with only Scizor to reliably check Dragons, especially when he could be locked into Bullet Punch or Pursuit in order to revenge one of them. As I'm typing this, I'm starting to really see the value of Shed Shell should I end up facing such a team, but man, Lefties is soooo handy...
“Scizor! Digivolve to...Kabuterimon!”
Scizor @ Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: 248 HP /252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -Spe)
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- U-Turn
- Pursuit/Quick Attack
What could I possibly add to the most straightforward set you're gonna see here? Actually, it's not that easy: there's still the matter of choosing between Pursuit and Quick Attack. Pursuit's for checkmating Latis locked into Draco Meteor, Gengar and weakened Reuniclus off the top of my head; Quick Attack's for revenge killing Thundurus after Rocks and a couple rounds of Life Orb damage, Volcarona after Rocks and other stuff resistant to Bullet Punch. Err, that's pretty much the extent of the complexity of Scizor here.
“I won't...let you...get away with THIS! *turns into Super Saiyan*”
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spe
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Facade
- Taunt
I did consider Protect over Taunt, if only because of the extra Poison Heal Recovery, the extra scouting and even that Perish Song stalling I mentioned earlier. Still, having a 100% counter to Ferrothorn and a tool for fighting the war against stall is just too awesome for this team to give up. As for Facade over Ice Fang, I felt that the opportunity to hit Rotom-W hard in its smug, little face was too good to pass up; winning against opposing Gliscor and hitting harder against Dragons isn't such a big deal to me when half my team does not care for even SSJ4 Gliscor and Dragons are generally dealt with by basically every other member of the team.
And before you point it out to me, I know the above picture is lacking the signature Super Saiya-jin goldish aura around Gliscor; it's all about the tranquil fury, the aura would have been too much.
“Get a hole blown into you by the rainbow. Taste the rainbow.”
Starmie @ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin
- Thundurus
- Latis
- Infernape
- Heatran (although since this is a rain team...)
- Gengar
- Terrakion
- Landorus
- As my endgame sweeper, Dragonite REALLY needs rocks off the field, and his not carrying Lefties is certainly not helping matters
- Although I have only have one SR-weak team member, I also only one SR-resistant, i.e. the one who should be setting up some Rocks of his own. You may notice that my team is fairly reactionary (though not overly so, thanks to Dragonite), so a fair amount of switching is gonna be happening. Even with just Rocks up on my side of the field, it's gonna wear me down a good deal, so Rapid Spin is really gonna help with the more reactionary style of this team
- Spikes affects 4/6 teammates. That's a pretty good reason too, right...?
“WHO THE HELL THOUGHT MAKING MY SHINY FORM PUKE GREEN WAS A GOOD IDEA!?”
Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Atk / 216 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Waterfall
- Roost
This is basically the one member of the team who's not really here to check stuff (not that there isn't annoying stuff he's checking for me). Multiscale + a couple DDs + Outrage + Dragon / Flying typing = some sort of term that emphatically designates unconditional and irreversible fatalism. Like WIN. Let's go with that. I will now retroactively provide another reason I have Taunt on Gliscor: Ferrothorn would make me cry, but he would really reduce Dragonite to an uncontrollable mess of tears and shame. Shame at being walled by something that shouldn't wall him. But them's the kicks when you run Bulky DDNite in the rain.
Waterfall over Brick Break because all that gets me is coverage against Ferrothorn and Empoleon (lol). Might as well have a third Rain abuser on the team. Roost over stuff like Extremespeed because the latter coming from something with so little investing in Attack is meh, and Roost + the HP investment lets me get some extra boosts against stuff like Gengar.
The big thing Dragonite checks, though, is Volcarona. Volcarona in the Sun with no Rocks up is pretty much would be a death sentence for this team without Dragonite. Yeah, yeah, get rocks up and keep them up, win the weather war, blah blah blah, but the lack of a spin blocker and Politoed's frailty makes that a fair bit harder than it sounds, so this kind of insurance against that beast is definitely assuring. Which is why I gotta ask: should I move some EVs over from HP to Attack so that +1 Outrage secures a OHKO against it? I'm a bit wary of doing that, seeing as the bulk is really what allows Dragonite to set up as easily as he does...
Oh, and Lum Berry is kickass. So much easier to set up on stuff wanting to status you. Never really saw the appeal of Lefties for Sand on this set myself, Dragonite should be coming in after someone goes down, anyhow, so Multiscale is still active for one turn if he's been kept safe the whole match.
Changes I'm considering (will probably be changed as the posts trickle in with suggestions):
- Rotom-W over Starmie + Defensive set over Scarf set for Politoed (shores up my weakness to Tornadus and Flying-type moves, Politoed more likely to last the weather wars)
- EVs on Ferrothorn and Shed Shell over Leftovers
- Quick Attack over Pursuit on Scizor
- Protect and Ice Fang on Gliscor over Taunt and Facade respectively
- Leftovers over Life Orb on Starmie
- EVs on Dragonite
(I won't bother with re-doing this if there are any changes to the team, there's only so much I can do @_@)
Code:
Offensive Threats
[IMG]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites/dpicon/dpicon142.png[/IMG] [B]Aerodactyl -[/B]Sucks that it still outspeeds ScarfToed. Ferrothorn, Scizor revenges, Starmie and ScarfToed can come in after a KO, take a hit (aside from Flight Gem-boosted Acrobatics) and revenge. But mostly Ferrothorn
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/7/7e/Ani286MS.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Breloom - [/B]Gliscor, Gliscor, Gliscor. Starmie, Scizor and ScarfToed all revenge with no Sub in the way, Dragonite sets up if Sleep Clause is activated
[B][IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/534.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Conkeldurr -[/B] Gliscor, Dragonite sets up alongside it and wins out with Multiscale active unless it's packing Stone Edge, Starmie revenges or checks if it's packing Stone Edge
[B][IMG]http://pldh.net/media/pokecons/555.png[/IMG]Darmanitan - [/B]Me no likey in the Sun. Switch to Politoed to get the Rain up (this is one of those times I'd rather have the Defensive set), Scizor revenges with prior damage, Starmie can also revenge non-Scarfed versions. Sun + Dugtrio + this would be one hell of a problem, good thing Politoed's Scarfed, huh?
[B][IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/386-speed.png[/IMG][/B] [B]Deoxys-S - [/B]HNNNNGGG. If it runs BoltBeam + Fire move, something might have to be sacked, depending on me and my opponent's prediction skillz. Anyhow, Ferrothorn can come in after the KO, survive one Fire move in the rain and cripple with TWave, otherwise Scizor revenges. Dragonite with Multiscale up is a last resort check. One of the reasons I might consider some more investing in Dragonite's Attack to secure the KO, though a very minor one. Other sets are less problematic, above + whichever can tank its attack on account of lacking the requisite Super Effective move
[B]
[IMG]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites/dpicon/dpicon149.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Dragonite - [/B]Non-DD Variants = Starmie and ScarfToed revenges. No Superpower or Fire move = Ferrothorn. CB sets with no Water / Ice move = Gliscor. Scizor can revenge all variants with some prior damage. I think my own Dragonite come in after a KO and tank a +1 Outrage and respond with and Outrage of his own if my Multiscale's up and his isn't
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/3/37/Ani395MS.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Empoleon - [/B]Starmie, ScarfToed with Focus Blast, I think Gliscor can Revenge, Scizor should be able to come in after a KO and tank one hit from anything it has in the rain and KO with Superpower, Ferrothorn. Mostly Ferrothorn
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/a/a7/196MS.png[/IMG][/B] [B]Espeon - [/B]Does it actually count as an offensive threat, per se? Starmie revenges, as does Scarftoed and Scizor. No Shadow Ball = Starmie all the way, no HP fire = same for Scizor, I doubt it's doing much of anything to Dragonite. The real problem is that it trolls Ferrothorn by not letting him set up Rocks, and where there's an Espeon, there's usually a Volcarona...
[B][IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/530.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Excadrill - [/B]Dragonite tanks a +2 Rock Slide and retaliates with Waterfall so Scizor revenges afterwards : 70.2 % - 82.9 %. ScarfToed revenges: 179.0 % - 211.0 %. Gliscor laughs at anything Excadrill throws at it: priceless. For everything else, there's Gliscor
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/1/18/Ani094MS.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Gengar - [/B]Even SubDisable goes down to Scizor. Dragonite sets up quite easily on it unless it's the Pain Split set or it's carrying HP Ice. Starmie and ScarfToed revenge when Sub is broken
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/d/d1/Ani130MS.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Gyarados - [/B]Starmie revenges, Ferrothorn beats non-Taunt sets, Dragonite has an easy time with non Stone-Edge / Ice Fang versions. Quick Attack on Scizor would be nice to have here...
[B][IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/612.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Haxorus - [/B]CB Rivalry versions are a crapshoot. Either it 2HKOs Ferrothorn, before it gets a TWave off, or it doesn't and I do (Either way, Ferrothorn's not feeling so good...) Scizor, Starmie and ScarfToed all revenge. DD versions is dealt quite handily by Scizor, as is the Scarf set
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/0/03/Ani485MS.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Heatran - [/B]If Rain's up, everyone but Scizor and Ferrothorn. Slower versions are revenged by Gliscor. ScarfToed is the go-to switch-in, Starmie also revenges
[B][IMG]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites/dpicon/dpicon214.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Heracross - [/B]Gliscor. Scizor revenges, Dragonite will get one DD up on it if locked into anything but Stone Edge, and will still get a DD if Multiscale wasn't broken beforehand
[B][IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/635.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Hydreigon - [/B]One of those Pokémon who can hit everything on the team hard if it switches in clean, though prediction is key, as with Deoxys-S, on both sides, so hardly an instant KO. Scarf versions are revenged by Scizor, Starmie and ScarfToed revenge other versions, Dragonite can take a hit even without Multiscale and revenges if locked into anything but Ice Beam (does it learn that move? Never seen it used on it...)
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/7/74/Ani392MS.png[/IMG][/B] [B]Infernape - [/B]Starmie, Dragonite if no Ice Punch or Stone Edge. ScarfToed revenges non Swords Dance / Nasty Plot sets. Scizor can revenge with prior damage (again, Quick Attack would be handy here)
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/7/77/Ani385MS.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Jirachi - [/B]Specially defensive has nothing on Gliscor. SubCM won't like taking on Starmie, I think, although this is where Lefties over Life Orb would keep me from going into KO range as it would attempt to stall me out wtih Subs. I figure a full health Dragonite would tank even +6 whatever that's not Ice / Dragon / Rock-typed from it. Basically, I feel like I have enough DDs and it hasn't attacked yet, I break the Sub and go for the kill
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/1/14/Ani135MS.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Jolteon - [/B]Huh, another reason to have Quick Attack over Pursuit on Scizor. Maybe I should do it...Anyway, Scizor can revenge with some prior damage, otherwise Ferrothorn. Mostly Ferrothorn. Dragonite can revenge if Multiscale is intact
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/d/d8/Ani230MS.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Kingdra - [/B]Thank God for Ferrothorn. Specs is prediction on both ends, as usual for stuff that can hit everything on this team hard, so no worries, everything else is aaaaaalllllllllll Ferrothorn. Yet another reason Quick Attack would be handy on Scizor. Man, should I...?
[B][IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/646.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Kyurem - [/B]Scizor, duh. Ferrothorn handles it pretty well barring Focus Blast, ScarfToed can revenge non-Scarfed versions
[B][IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/645.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Landorus - [/B]Ferrothorn. Scizor revenges, as can Starmie and ScarfToed if there's no Scarf or Rock Polish
[B][IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/381.png[/IMG][/B] [B]Latios - [/B]Finally, a reason for Pursuit. Yeah, Ferrothorn tanks Draco Meteors and can cripple with TWave, Scizor checkmates if it's locked into Draco Meteor, Starmie and ScarfToed revenge if there's no Scarf, Dragonite sets up once it comes in after a KO, barring Scarf
[B][IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/549.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Lilligant - [/B]Scizor revenges. No HP Ice = Dragonite laughs, no HP Fire = Ferrothorn and Scizor laugh
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/b/b0/Ani448MS.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Lucario - [/B]It's not setting up on anything unless it's packing a balloon. As long as I don't play dumb with Gliscor or Scizor if it DOES have Balloon, I'll probably only have to sack one Pokémon. Probably the biggest threat to the team, either one teammate goes down or they probably all go down, but at least I still have Scizor to revenge with enough prior damage. Yeah...
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/c/cc/Ani068MS.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Machamp - [/B]No safe switch thanks to Dynamicpunch + Ice Punch + Payback, but Starmie, ScarfToed and to a lesser extent Scizor all revenge. Also big trouble for the team, although not quite to the degree of Lucario
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/d/d8/Ani462MS.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Magnezone - [/B]The reason behind my hesitation about keeping Lefties over Shed Shell on Ferrothorn. On its own, all my non-steels handle it without trouble
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/6/67/Ani473MS.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Mamoswine - [/B]Scizor. Starmie and Scarftoed revenge as well
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/4/49/Ani376MS.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Metagross - [/B]Starmie if lacking Thunderpunch, Gliscor if lacking Ice Punch, ScarfToed can revenge
[B][IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/620.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Mienshao - [/B]Again, no truly safe switch-in, but very revenge-able between Scizor and Starmie /ScarfToed if not holding a Scarf of its own. For a team with three Fighting resists, I sure have problems with them...although all of the ones I happen to be bothered by are all quite low in usage, so there's that...
[B][IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/579.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Reuniclus - [/B]Scizor. If packing HP Fire for some reason, then Starmie if OTR set and missing Shadow Ball and Ferrothorn if missing Focus Blast
[B][IMG]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites/dpicon/dpicon407.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Roserade - [/B]Ferrothorn will probably take the Sleep Powder,
[B][IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/373.png[/IMG][/B] [B]Salamence - [/B]Depends on set, although Ferrothorn is usually good in rain. Scizor, Starmie, ScarfToed all revenge
[B][IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/586.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Sawsbuck - [/B]If Sun's up, it has to be Scizor with prior damage. ScarfToed revenges, as does Scizor and Starmie in Rain. Dragonite comes in after a KO and can revenge with Multiscale up
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/b/b4/Ani212MS.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Scizor - [/B]Gliscor, Ferrothorn if it doesn't go for Superpower. Mostly Gliscor, unless I really need the Rocks up or something
[B][IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/560.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Scrafty- [/B]Starmie, Scizor (with prior damage) and ScarfToed revenge DD variants. Bulk Up sets are handled again by Starmie in the Rain + Scizor
[B][IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/492-land.png[/IMG][/B] [B]Shaymin - [/B]Ferrothorn and Scizor if no HP Fire, Dragonite if no HP Ice. Starmie and ScarfToed can also revenge non-Scarfed versions
[B][IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/561.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Sigilyph - [/B]Gliscor can come in on the Psycho Shift and do its thing. Starmie and ScarfToed beat the Stored Power versions anyhow. Other sets not worth mentioning
[B][IMG]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites/dpicon/dpicon235.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Smeargle - [/B]Baton Pass on me, will you? Perish Song shows its worth here. Spore can be tanked by Gliscor outside of the lead, Ferrothorn can take the Spore otherwise. Meh
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/1/19/Ani121MS.png[/IMG][/B] [B]Starmie - [/B]Ferrothorn. And then more Ferrothorn. This is where HP Grass on Politoed would have been nice, guess I'll have to settle for Scizor with prior damage (again)
[B][IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/639.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Terakion - [/B]Scizor revenges everything. Gliscor is the initial switch-in. Starmie and ScarfToed revenge those without a Scarf or a Rock Polish under the belt. Full health Dragonite can come in after a KO, tank a non-boosted Stone Edge and KO back
[B][IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/642.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Thundurus - [/B]Lum Berry + 3 attacks is just the worst. Still, Ferrothorn aside, there's very little on the team it can switch into safely and it's revenged by ScarfToed, Starmie and Scizor with some prior damage. Those without three attacks is checked by whoever isn't hit Super Effectively by the remaining moves
[B][IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/641.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Tornadus - [/B]Specs Hurricane kinda makes me cry. Still, easier to revenge than its bro since it doesn't resist bullet Punch, but yeah, Rocks have to get up with it around. If it switches into Ferrothorn looking to 2HKO him, he won't go without crippling him, so hopefully he'll have gotten rocks up + Twaved Tornadus before going down
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/5/59/Ani248MS.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Tyranitar - [/B]Another one who can hit anyone on the team hard with the standard mixed set, but he himself isn't coming in unharmed against anyone. Revenged by Scizor, Dragonite, ScarfToed with prior damage and Gliscor. Other sets are a lot easier to handle, mostly a matter of whether it's packing a Fire (Gliscor) or Ice (Ferrothorn and Scizor) move
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/d/df/003MS.png[/IMG][/B] [B]Venusaur - [/B]Pain in the ass in the Sun, Scizor can revenge with prior damage, Dragonite can revenge with Multiscale up + prior damage, another argument for more EVs into attack for Dragonite
[B][IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/494.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Victini - [/B]Basically, see Darmanitan, except a good deal easier to revenge unless it's Scarfed, then Dragonite for the revenge. Good thing Sun teams don't use him all that much compared to other Sun sweepers, thankfully
[B][IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/640.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Virizion - [/B]No HP Ice = Dragonite, no HP Fire = Ferrothorn and Scizor, Starmie + ScarfToed + Scizor can all revenge anyhow
[B][IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/637.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Volcarona - [/B]See the big paragraph under Dragonite's set
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/a/a0/Ani461MS.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Weavile - [/B]Scizor, Scarftoed and Starmie can revenge
[B][IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/571.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Zoroark -[/B] Scizor barring the fire move, ScarfToed revenges
Code:
Defensive Threats
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/b/b5/Ani242MS.png[/IMG] [B]Blissey - [/B]Scizor if it carries Toxic and no fire move, Gliscor if not packing Ice Beam (although Seismic Toss can wear him down without Protect), Dragonite can grab one boost if it doesn't switch into its status move
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/0/0d/Ani437MS.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Bronzong - [/B]Starmie and ScarfToed can tank its Gyro Balls and hit back hard with Rain-boosted Hydro Pumps, ferrothorn can take a hypnosis if need be, Dragonite can grab one boost against it and KO with prior damage
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/4/4b/Ani251MS.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Celebi - [/B]Scizor. Dragonite sets up on it if lacking a status move and HP Ice, usually the Nasty Plot set, Starmie and ScarfToed can revenge it with prior damage as well if lacking a Scarf of its own
[B][IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/113.png[/IMG][/B] [B]Chansey - [/B]See Blissey
[B][IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/386-defense.png[/IMG][/B] [B]Deoxys-D - [/B]Gliscor walls most variants, Scizor survives anything in the rain from it anyhow KOs it back
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/8/84/Ani356MS.png[/IMG][/B] [B]Dusclops - [/B]Gliscor laughs at it
[B][IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/598.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Ferrothorn - Gliscor.[/B] Scizor can catch it with a Superpower, Hydro Pumps from Politoed and Starmie can wear it down somewhat
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/8/81/Ani205MS.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Forretress - [/B]Gliscor laughs and blocks its Volt Switch, Starmie uses the threat of Hydro Pump to spin the hazards away, ScarfToed's Hydro Pump works here as well, it's not doing anything to Dragonite either
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/3/3f/Ani472MS.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Gliscor - [/B]Dragonite can tank a Toxic / Ice Fang, grab a boost and KO back; Starmie and ScarfToed both handle it otherwise
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/1/17/Ani450MS.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Hippowdon - [/B]See Gliscor
[B][IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/593.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Jellicent - [/B]Ferrothorn if it lacks Will-O-Wisp, Gliscor if it lacks Ice Beam or Scald, Starmie if it lacks Shadow Ball or Hex, Dragonite can grab a boost, shrug off the incoming status and KO with prior damage
[B][IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/380.png[/IMG][/B] [B]Latias - [/B]Scizor and Ferrothorn all the way, Starmie and ScarfToed can revenge with prior damage
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/7/71/198MS.png[/IMG][/B] [B]Murkrow - [/B]Starmie and ScarfToed a-go-go
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/1/10/038MS.png[/IMG][/B] [B]Ninetales - [/B]ScarfToed / Starmie if lacking Energy Ball, Dragonite can grab a boost if it doesn't status him on the switch in
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/e/e9/186MS.png[/IMG][/B] [B]Politoed - [/B]Barring a prediction with HP Grass, Starmie and maybe ScarfToed, Dragonite can grab some boosts against it if choice locked into anything but Ice Beam or if it doesn't switch into the status move
[B][IMG]http://www.pokestadium.com/pokemon/sprites/icons/233.gif[/IMG][/B] [B]Porygon2 - [/B]Scizor barring HP Fire, ScarfToed can revenge in a pinch
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/d/d6/Ani479WMS.png[/IMG][/B] [B]Rotom-W - [/B]Ferrothorn, Starmie and Scarftoed can revenge with prior damage unless it's packing Scarf, Quick Attack on Scizor is looking really enticing now...
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/3/31/Ani227MS.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Skarmory - [/B]Starmie and ScarfToed all the way
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/1/12/Ani143MS.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Snorlax -[/B]Scizor, Gliscor if not CB, Ferrothorn if CB
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/c/cd/Ani245MS.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Suicune - [/B]Starmie, Ferrothorn, it's a good thing RestTalk sucks now...
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/7/78/Ani260MS.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Swampert - [/B]Starmie, ScarfToed, Ferrothorn, Dragonite if it lacks Ice Beam / CB Stone Edge
[B][IMG]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites/dpicon/dpicon073.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Tentacruel - [/B]Starmie, Ferrothorn, Dragonite if it lacks Ice Beam
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/4/47/Ani134MS.png[/IMG][/B] [B]Vaporeon - [/B]HydraRest is definitely not fun. Starmie if lacking HP Electric, Ferrothorn can stall it out if lacking HP Fire, Gliscor can catch it with a Taunt if it switches in and mitigate its effectiveness
[B][IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/547.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Whimsicott - [/B]Scizor and Ferrothorn if lacking HP Fire, Dragonite if lacking HP Ice, neither Dragonite nor Ferrothorn are too bothered by SubSeed anyhow
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/3/34/Ani178MS.png[/IMG][/B] [B]Xatu - [/B]Starmie, ScarfToed, Scizor and Ferrothorn if lacking HP Fire
[B][IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/1/15/Ani145MS.png[/IMG][/B] [B] Zapdos -[/B] Starmie, ScarfToed, Dragonite can take an HP Ice /status move to set up and KO back; it could theoretically run a sweeping Agility set with T-bolt / HP Ice / Heat Wave and sweep my team clean, but no one runs that...right?
