SV UU Metagame Discussion

[Roxyroxyroxy]

I've been playing around a little bit with Pickpocket Tinkaton after I saw someone use it in a UUWC game and I gotta say it's a pretty cool tech. Importantly, Pickpocket activates immediately AFTER knock off, allowing you to pretty much switch in and steal from Cyclizar, other Tinkaton, and to a lesser extent Donphan and Meowscarada pretty freely. Ive also found myself switching in and out Tinkaton throughout the match on weak hits and U-turns to get as many steals as possible (especially with wish support), which can really disrupt the opponents team Pickpocket can be a double edged sword, however, so you need to avoid stealing things like AV or Choice band if you arent ready to lose your utility moves yet.

On the flip side, there arent really a whole lot of uses for Mold Breaker in the current metagame (unless Im forgetting something), so there's little drawback to running Pickpocket if you play it well.

I remember fighting you with pickpocket tink on ladder, that was genuinely so annoying LOL

 

[Nikebeamz]

I've been playing around a little bit with Pickpocket Tinkaton after I saw someone use it in a UUWC game and I gotta say it's a pretty cool tech. Importantly, Pickpocket activates immediately AFTER knock off, allowing you to pretty much switch in and steal from Cyclizar, other Tinkaton, and to a lesser extent Donphan and Meowscarada pretty freely. Ive also found myself switching in and out Tinkaton throughout the match on weak hits and U-turns to get as many steals as possible (especially with wish support), which can really disrupt the opponents team Pickpocket can be a double edged sword, however, so you need to avoid stealing things like AV or Choice band if you arent ready to lose your utility moves yet.

On the flip side, there arent really a whole lot of uses for Mold Breaker in the current metagame (unless Im forgetting something), so there's little drawback to running Pickpocket if you play it well.

As a manual rain enthusiast (its viable I swear), pickpocket tink is really useful for yoinking scarf off meowscarada which is really annoying to bb gren and basculegion-m in rain. its especially useful since I am running eject button tink. I might make a longer post on manual rain depending on if pelipper comes back next month. Manual rain is truly fun for the whole family!

 

[cyrtie]

Gyarados is in my top 5 favourite pokemon and it makes me glad to see that it is still above RU, It is a good feeling when the pokemon you can get so easily in every game by catching a level 5 magikarp evolves into something so consistent, would gyarados be OU if it had an actual flying move or possibly even reliable recovery, or both? Even with pokemon that feel like they perform similar roles to gyarados and even with power creep making 125 base atk not seem as high anymore, it keeps going on even being considered broken in OU in early SWSH. Just wanted to give some appreciation to ol' gyara. What sets do you guys run on it now? And would it still be A- or higher with home's additions?

 

[somethingaboutsomething]

Gyarados is in my top 5 favourite pokemon and it makes me glad to see that it is still above RU, It is a good feeling when the pokemon you can get so easily in every game by catching a level 5 magikarp evolves into something so consistent, would gyarados be OU if it had an actual flying move or possibly even reliable recovery, or both? Even with pokemon that feel like they perform similar roles to gyarados and even with power creep making 125 base atk not seem as high anymore, it keeps going on even being considered broken in OU in early SWSH. Just wanted to give some appreciation to ol' gyara. What sets do you guys run on it now? And would it still be A- or higher with home's additions?

i appreciate gyarados for being a super solid answer to donphan, whenever i play him i use the classic Moxie Dragon Dance, Waterfall, Tera blast and taunt, its very good at snowballing but i feel its rather incosistent at times while also being tera reliant, (but whats the problem with being tera reliant if using tera means you'll sweep and entire team by youserlf) and im my experience it alternates between winning me games by itself or only being used for saccing, still pretty strong with an underated defensive typing and being always a threat right from team preview, however with choice scarf kleavor being omnipresent and h-arcanine existing it would be b+ on my rankings (im not a good player tho)

 

[Moutemoute]

UUWC : Week 1-2 usages

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Meowscarada        |   72 |  51.43% |  47.22% |
| 2    | Tinkaton           |   51 |  36.43% |  56.86% |
| 3    | Donphan            |   48 |  34.29% |  43.75% |
| 4    | Skeledirge         |   37 |  26.43% |  43.24% |
| 5    | Thundurus-Therian  |   36 |  25.71% |  63.89% |
| 6    | Cyclizar           |   32 |  22.86% |  59.38% |
| 7    | Arcanine-Hisui     |   30 |  21.43% |  60.00% |
| 8    | Greninja-*         |   28 |  20.00% |  53.57% |
| 8    | Goodra-Hisui       |   28 |  20.00% |  39.29% |
| 10   | Scizor             |   26 |  18.57% |  50.00% |
| 11   | Quaquaval          |   25 |  17.86% |  44.00% |
| 12   | Gastrodon          |   22 |  15.71% |  45.45% |
| 13   | Zapdos-Galar       |   21 |  15.00% |  23.81% |
| 14   | Slowbro-Galar      |   19 |  13.57% |  26.32% |
| 15   | Tornadus-Therian   |   18 |  12.86% |  61.11% |
| 15   | Kleavor            |   18 |  12.86% |  50.00% |
| 15   | Scream Tail        |   18 |  12.86% |  38.89% |
| 18   | Moltres-Galar      |   13 |   9.29% |  53.85% |
| 18   | Enamorus-Therian   |   13 |   9.29% |  53.85% |
| 18   | Rillaboom          |   13 |   9.29% |  53.85% |
| 18   | Hippowdon          |   13 |   9.29% |  38.46% |
| 18   | Hydreigon          |   13 |   9.29% |  23.08% |
| 23   | Slowking           |   12 |   8.57% |  66.67% |
| 23   | Quagsire           |   12 |   8.57% |  50.00% |
| 23   | Overqwil           |   12 |   8.57% |  50.00% |
| 26   | Basculegion-F      |   11 |   7.86% |  45.45% |
| 27   | Salamence          |    9 |   6.43% |  66.67% |
| 28   | Muk-Alola          |    8 |   5.71% |  75.00% |
| 28   | Slowbro            |    8 |   5.71% |  75.00% |
| 28   | Breloom            |    8 |   5.71% |  62.50% |
| 28   | Hawlucha           |    8 |   5.71% |  50.00% |
| 28   | Moltres            |    8 |   5.71% |  50.00% |
| 28   | Cresselia          |    8 |   5.71% |  37.50% |
| 34   | Magnezone          |    7 |   5.00% |  57.14% |
| 34   | Decidueye-Hisui    |    7 |   5.00% |  57.14% |
| 34   | Ceruledge          |    7 |   5.00% |  57.14% |
| 34   | Talonflame         |    7 |   5.00% |  42.86% |
| 38   | Haxorus            |    6 |   4.29% |  66.67% |
| 38   | Chesnaught         |    6 |   4.29% |  50.00% |
| 38   | Alomomola          |    6 |   4.29% |  16.67% |
| 41   | Gyarados           |    5 |   3.57% |  80.00% |
| 41   | Iron Leaves        |    5 |   3.57% |  80.00% |
| 41   | Tyranitar          |    5 |   3.57% |  60.00% |
| 41   | Zoroark-Hisui      |    5 |   3.57% |  40.00% |
| 41   | Slither Wing       |    5 |   3.57% |  40.00% |
| 46   | Regidrago          |    4 |   2.86% |  75.00% |
| 46   | Armarouge          |    4 |   2.86% |  25.00% |
| 48   | Maushold-Four      |    3 |   2.14% | 100.00% |
| 48   | Basculegion        |    3 |   2.14% |  66.67% |
| 48   | Braviary-Hisui     |    3 |   2.14% |  66.67% |
| 48   | Klefki             |    3 |   2.14% |  66.67% |
| 48   | Maushold           |    3 |   2.14% |  66.67% |
| 48   | Blissey            |    3 |   2.14% |  33.33% |
| 48   | Toxtricity         |    3 |   2.14% |  33.33% |
| 55   | Krookodile         |    2 |   1.43% | 100.00% |
| 55   | Lycanroc-Dusk      |    2 |   1.43% | 100.00% |
| 55   | Electrode-Hisui    |    2 |   1.43% |  50.00% |
| 55   | Mimikyu            |    2 |   1.43% |  50.00% |
| 55   | Rotom-Heat         |    2 |   1.43% |  50.00% |
| 55   | Polteageist        |    2 |   1.43% |  50.00% |
| 55   | Grafaiai           |    2 |   1.43% |  50.00% |
| 55   | Grimmsnarl         |    2 |   1.43% |  50.00% |
| 55   | Indeedee           |    2 |   1.43% |   0.00% |
| 55   | Brambleghast       |    2 |   1.43% |   0.00% |
| 55   | Gardevoir          |    2 |   1.43% |   0.00% |
| 66   | Staraptor          |    1 |   0.71% | 100.00% |
| 66   | Lokix              |    1 |   0.71% | 100.00% |
| 66   | Abomasnow          |    1 |   0.71% | 100.00% |
| 66   | Frosmoth           |    1 |   0.71% | 100.00% |
| 66   | Thundurus          |    1 |   0.71% | 100.00% |
| 66   | Barraskewda        |    1 |   0.71% | 100.00% |
| 66   | Wo-Chien           |    1 |   0.71% | 100.00% |
| 66   | Mew                |    1 |   0.71% | 100.00% |
| 66   | Indeedee-F         |    1 |   0.71% | 100.00% |
| 66   | Dudunsparce-*      |    1 |   0.71% | 100.00% |
| 66   | Weavile            |    1 |   0.71% |   0.00% |
| 66   | Gengar             |    1 |   0.71% |   0.00% |
| 66   | Toedscruel         |    1 |   0.71% |   0.00% |
| 66   | Sandaconda         |    1 |   0.71% |   0.00% |
| 66   | Pawmot             |    1 |   0.71% |   0.00% |
| 66   | Torkoal            |    1 |   0.71% |   0.00% |
| 66   | Brute Bonnet       |    1 |   0.71% |   0.00% |
| 66   | Polteageist-Antique |    1 |   0.71% |   0.00% |
| 66   | Articuno-Galar     |    1 |   0.71% |   0.00% |
| 66   | Uxie               |    1 |   0.71% |   0.00% |

Hey there ! With the end of the month and the near new shifts coming in about 24h, I thought this would be interesting to focus on the first two weeks of the UUWC in order to see how the metagame has developted.

It's a suprise to basically no one who has been playing UU during that month of July to see Meowscarada that high on the usages. In fact, it has more than 50% usages which is kinda crazy. Meowscarada's speed tier, typing and moveset allow it to be one of the best Pokémon in the current metagame, being able to outspeed top threat such as Greninja and Tornadus allows it to be a great tool for many teams. It's also great to pressure a ton of staples such as Donphan, Skeledirge, Greninja, Gastrodon or Quaquaval. Meowscarada main benefit is its STAB Knock Off paired with Flower Trick which allows it to pressure on their own many foes. Thanks to U-turn, it's also able to act effectively as a pivot. Its last slot is pretty versatile since it can run Play Rough, Spikes, Toxic Spikes or Sucker Punch, all of those option being good on their own. Overall, Meowscarada dominates the tier and can be considered as the best Pokémon in UU right now. Its versatility and efficiency in order to make some progress vs opponent's team is quite insane. Choice Band and Heavy-Duty Boots variants seems to be the most common versions of Meowscarada even those Choice Scarf and Lead variants have seen some usages.

Tinkaton had fallen in usages last month due to threats such as Sandy Shocks or Scizor but don't miss it, it's back to the top ! Tinkaton acts as an incredible blanket check to a lot of new threats such as Meowscarada, Kleavor or Enamorus-Therian which allows it to carve more than a niche in the current metagame. Its typing and moveset allows it to compress many roles in one slot since it can act as a Stealth Rock setter but also a check to slow setup users thanks to Encore. Knock Off and Gigaton Hammer are all what it really need to shine. Even tho Mold Breaker is still the most used ability on Tinkaton, some players have begun to use Pickpocket in order to bother other Knock Off users such as Meowscarada, Cyclizar and opponent's Tinkaton. This technique is actually pretty great, especially if Tinkaton is able to steal some Leftovers or Heavy-Duty Boots from the opponent.

I hate to admit it, but the facts are right there in from of my eyes, Donphan is the third most used Pokémon in SV UU in those first two weeks of UUWC. It has been used about 1.5x more than Cyclizar which is the second most used Rapid Spinner in the tournament. Both this Pokémon have been doing great. Donphan is a great offensive Rapid Spin user thanks to its Ground-type and access to Knock Off and coverage options such as Ice Shard or Ice Spinner. It's also great to compress both Stealth Rock setter and Entry Hazards remover into one slot which allows it to distinguish itself from Cyclizar which acts more as a good offensive pivot. Donphan can also check and pressure common staples such as Arcanine-Hisui, Tinkaton, Skeledirge or Slowbro-Galar. On the other hand, Cyclizar is still a great pick in many teams which don't want to sap too much momentum into a slot. Even tho Draco Meteor is still its favorite filler, we have seen uses of Power Whip to pressure Gastrodon, Quagsire and other Water-types but also of Dragon Tail in order to pressure common switches such as Skeledirge. This last move has seen usages on teams based around entry stacking in order to punish even more their damage output with Dragon Tail.

Skeledirge and Arcanine-H are the current best Fire-types in the tier. Even tho they don't fill the same role at all, they're both great in what they're doing. Skeledirge has cemented itself as one of the best Pokémon in the tier and this can be seen in this UUWC since it's the 4th most used Pokémon. Thanks to Unaware, Slack Off and its typing, Skeledirge is able to check dangerous threats such as Scizor. It's also an incredible Tera users and have been seen with many different Tera types such as Fairy, Water or Dark. All of them allows Skeledirge to check dedicated answers and to adapt to the needs of its team while removing its crucial weakness to Stealth Rock (since it tends to lost its Heavy-Duty Boots quite often) . Even tho this Pokémon is more used as a defensive Pokémon, Torch Song allows it to not be passive at all and to clean some games once its checks are neutralized. On the other hand, Arcanine-H is a pretty straightforward threat, it's a decently fast wallbreaker thanks to Rock Head and its access to Head Smash and Flare Blitz. Even tho Arcanine-H tend to be known for its Choice Band sets, we have seen a surge in Heavy-Duty Boots usage. Even tho this variant of Arcanine-H doesn't deal as much damages as the Choice Band counterpart, it's way better in the long run since it doesn't fear to be weakened by Entry Hazards. We have seen a lot of Tera Normal variants on this set but also many different fillers including Morning Sun, Double Edge, Stealth Rock, Will-O-Wisp and even Howl. Overall Arcanine-H is a dangerous threat which can pressure teams and even break through its checks such as Alomomola or Slowbro with some entry hazards support.

This may be a surprise for some players but Thundurus-Therian is indeed the 5th most used Pokémon at the moment. This Pokémon pairs well with other pivot such as Meowscarada, Cyclizar, Zapdos-Galar or Scizor and is able to pressure many defensive Pokémon thanks to its great special attack and ludicrous moveset. Grass Knot allows it to beat Gastrodon, Donphan and Quagsire while Sludge Bomb is great to spread poison and dent Fairy-types such as Tera Fairy Skeledirge and Scream Tail or Grass-types such as Meowscarada or Rillaboom. On the other hand Focus Blast can help to blast threw Cyclizar, Goodra-Hisui or Hydreigon. We have also seen some variants with the Tera Flying + Tera Blast which allows Thundurus-T to have a great Flying-type STAB. Even tho Thundurus-T struggles vs faster threat, it's still fast enough to outspeed common staples such as Arcanine-H, Hydreigon, non-Choice Scarf Zapdos-Galar or Moltres-Galar.

Greninja is still around even tho Meowscarada is a pain in the ass for it since it outspeeds it. Battle Bond variants are really common and have seen more usage than Protean counterpart. Greninja is still a dangerous sweeper being able to threaten common staples such as Donpha, Skeledirge, Arcanine-H or Thundurus-Therian.

That's all for today. I decided to only talk about Pokémon which reached 20% usages but I could also have talked about Goodra-Hisui which has seen a fair amount of usage as a great sponge to many threats. This Pokémon is pretty nice and tend to be paired with Wish users (especially Scream Tail). Zapdos-Galar is also a Pokémon which has seen a good amount of usage as one of the best Choice Scarf user thanks to its great typing while Quaquaval and Scizor are still used as dangerous setup sweepers. We also have seen some more defensive variants of Quaquaval with Rapid Spin + Roost in order to check threats such as Scizor or Arcanine-Hisui. Other staples include Tornadus-Therian which is a nasty offensive pivot which can tear teams apart thanks to Nasty Plot and its Fire/Fighting coverage but also Slowbro-Galar which is a great check to a lot of common threats and can check Meowscarada thanks to Tera Fairy. Gastrodon is also still pretty great as well as Kleavor.

 

[Negative Charge]

How many boots users are y'all running? I find myself running 3-4 at a minimum these days and have run a build with 5. I find the sheer utility of this item very high in a meta with a ghost on basically 100% of teams and very few good defoggers. My current team has boots meow, dirge, chesnaught, and arcanine-H. Beyond the obvious benefit of your mons being immune to hazard chip and webs, I like to think about Boots in terms of my opponent essentially wasting turns setting up hazards. The entire meta orbits the hazards game and being able to opt out of it to a certain extent is really good.

On an related note, itemless Pickpocket Tink is legit. You can steal your opponent's boots from things you'd never have the chance to click knock off against like Meow or Lokix. Wearing down these fast U-turn users becomes a lot easier if they are taking hazard chip and Pickpocket Tink can basically ensure you steal their item.

 

[Lily]

Tier shifts!!

Cresselia moved from UU to OU
Greninja moved from UU to OU
Meowscarada moved from UU to OU
Moltres moved from UU to OU

Iron Treads moved from OU to UU
Volcanion moved from OU to UU

Lost some important Pokemon (and Cresselia) and gained a couple threats that seem like they'll be okay. What are we thinking about these shifts?

 

[StarFalcon555]

THE IRON TREAAAAAAAAADDDDDDDDDDDDSSSSSSSSSSSSS

THE IRON TREADS IS REAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

CAN WE GET MUCH HIGHER? (SO HIGH)

 

[Bice]

so what im seeing is we should make ou ladder players the new uu council
thank fucking christ the cat and frog are gone. volcanion will be VERY good, given that it's the only pokemon that gets scald (and its more powerful cousin). iron treads is a very welcome addition, as we finally have a good ground type that isnt too passive, as well as a good spinner that isnt cyclizar. let's just hope we dont keep donphan in uu for several months like we did with forretress
speaking of which, i find it hilarious that forretress finally dropped only for a fuckton of op (for RU) threats to drop with it. poor bastard never had a chance

 

[Moutemoute]

Let's be honest, if you have read my post above, you already know how big those shifts are for the tier. Meowscarada was the most used Pokémon during the first weeks of the UUWC and the most used Pokémon in July in UU on the ladder. On the other hand, Greninja was the 8th most used Pokémon in UUWC and the 6th most used on the ladder. Outside of their massive usages, those Pokémon were considered as great tool for teams in order to have some speed control and losing them is super big since this will leave the tier with massive holes in term of speed control. With those two being gone, I can definitively see Pokémon which weren't used that much taking their places. Pokémon like Gengar, Choice Scarf Basculegion, Azelf, Maushold or Iron Jugulis all benefit from the rise of Meowscarada and Greninja. We also need to consider that those two were massive threats on the builder which will once again lead to new Pokémon being able to shine more. I think things like Ceruledge or Thundurus-Therian will love this shifts.

This may be the future face of Suicide Lead HO. Iron Treads has a great speed tier and access to the same kind of moveset than Donphan so I'm really hyped to see how it's gonna perform with its Steel-type. This looks like a great addition to the tier (and a decent check / way to pressure things such as Tinkaton or Scizor).

Scald / Steam Eruption burn are back in UU ! Can't wait to see how this one gonna perform since it doesn't beat Gastrodon without Tera Grass Tera Blast. But with this set, the Pokémon looks like a massive threat for a ton of staples including Scizor, Gastrodon, Tinkaton or Quaquaval. Definitively a good Pokémon.

 

[Lizzie]

Kinda sad I can't farm free wins with gren on ladder anymore, meta seems kind of hostile to volcanion atm, a lot of mons naturally deal with it pretty well (hoodra, cyclizar, slowking). I expect to see a lot more slowking usage in general with both gren and meow rising.

The real story here is iron treads though, considering donphan was top 3 in usage both in uuwc and on ladder. Iron treads is a massive upgrade and more than likely becomes comfortably the best ground type in the tier, while also providing another much needed steel type.

 

[BolTingBlazie]

Tier shifts!!

Cresselia moved from UU to OU
Greninja moved from UU to OU
Meowscarada moved from UU to OU
Moltres moved from UU to OU

Iron Treads moved from OU to UU
Volcanion moved from OU to UU

Lost some important Pokemon (and Cresselia) and gained a couple threats that seem like they'll be okay. What are we thinking about these shifts?

Meowscarada being gone is rough. Wish they could have taken skeledirge instead.

Meow isn't even that good in OU so probably low ladder got it back to OU.

BUT WHY IS TTAR and GYARA UU, what happened to them?

 

[TheTemplarCo]

Moltres moving up is surprising when I rarely see it in my games, despite it being very good. It might have more usage last month in ou than it did in uu lol

 

[BolTingBlazie]

Moltres moving up is surprising when I rarely see it in my games, despite it being very good. It might have more usage last month in ou than it did in uu lol

I really thought ou was gonna take dirge over meow, considering dirge is overall better in OU at the moment. Wouldn't be surprised if we got meow back in a month or two

 

[Ram22]

I'm interested to see what Iron Treads does to the tier, specifically compared to other mons like Tinkaton and Donphan. While I can see Treads overshadowing Donphan with its steel typing, that steel typing also makes it a little harder to pair with Tinkaton, especially on more balanced teams. I can see Treads pairing really well onto volt-turn teams and HO.

 

[StarFalcon555]

Moltres moving up is surprising when I rarely see it in my games, despite it being very good. It might have more usage last month in ou than it did in uu lol

Apparently it's because Moltres is like one of the best Enamorous-Incarnate counters in OU

Enam's usual attacking trio of Moonblast/Earth Power/Mystical Fire literally cannot dent Moltres at all, and Pressure puts double dance sets on a timer

 

[sleestacks]

THE OFFENSIVE QUAQUAVAL CHECK WE’VE ALL BEEN WAITING FOR

REJOICE, FOR OUR SAVIOR IS HERE

For real though, fantastic mon. Answers Skeledirge too. I predict it to be a BO staple.

 

[Nauts]

THE OFFENSIVE QUAQUAVAL CHECK WE’VE ALL BEEN WAITING FOR

REJOICE, FOR OUR SAVIOR IS HERE

For real though, fantastic mon. Answers Skeledirge too. I predict it to be a BO staple.

We finally have an offensive Quaquaval check, the world is healing...

 

[Lily]

potential hot take but i think treads is actually not gonna be all that much better than donphan (if at all), there are some p huge concessions to be made when opting to use it over donphan. some of the important ones:

- fire weakness is Huge in a tier where skeledirge is so common but even more important is hisuian arcanine; donphan teams were already pretty weak to this in general, so iron treads teams are going to need some serious compensation which imo will hamper their overall effectiveness
- fight weakness in gzap tier
- ground weakness!! that's huge!! so many teams struggle to fit ground resists to begin with because the flying types aren't particularly great and the grasses aren't either, especially with miss meow leaving us. donphan was the pseudo ground resist on a lot of the teams where you'd fit donphan to begin with, so again there will be issues there
- it's pretty passive by comparison, esp. since it's relatively forced into a jolly nature to take advantage of the good speed tier. here are some calcs to show the power difference:

252+ Atk Donphan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 135-160 (34.2 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Iron Treads Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 118-139 (29.9 - 35.2%) -- 22.6% chance to 3HKO

252+ Atk Donphan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 169-201 (49.1 - 58.4%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Iron Treads Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 147-174 (42.7 - 50.5%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Iron Treads Earthquake vs. 180 HP / 0 Def Cyclizar: 210-247 (64.4 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Donphan Earthquake vs. 180 HP / 0 Def Cyclizar: 241-285 (73.9 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(this one is notable bc it meant bike would die if it tried to spin on donphan while it can do it on treads and live to tell the tale)

obviously it still hits decently hard but it's a pretty noticeable decrease. it's also functionally less bulky since you're investing so much into speed, for example:

252 SpA Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Donphan: 193-228 (50.2 - 59.3%) -- 77.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Iron Treads: 171-202 (53.2 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Muk-Alola Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Treads: 129-153 (40.1 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Muk-Alola Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Donphan: 129-153 (33.5 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

of course you can just say I Will Not Invest In Speed but then you're missing out on a huge part of what makes Treads good to begin with, and can also not invest in attack but then you're doing 2% to everything

Obviously Treads has good traits, Steel typing is cool in letting it better check stuff like Hisuian Goodra with good prediction and it can also offensively check HArc and Scizor if the latter is weakened enough. It's also much faster than every other Ground available which is a nice buff for offense. I don't think this will outclass Donphan tho, the fact that everything carries coverage for it regardless of its presence is really tough on a mon that struggles to invest in its bulk to begin with. Also functionally lacking an ability, which is a shame bc Sturdy comes in handy pretty often.

So yea don't count out Donphan just yet because the new guy dropped. Iron Treads could very well end up being Below Average Tusk (and I think it will).

 

[Twilight]

Losing Gren and Meow shifts everything because the Speed within the tier drops significantly. Tornadus-T and Cyclizar now become that Speed threshold you'll have to worry about unless stuff like Weavile or w/e pops up. This alone just makes base 100's like Thundurus-T, Pawmot, Hydreigon, and Salamence so much better. Gengar and Azelf can fulfill roles as breakers more easily too. I never really used Moltres much but I don't think it leaving is too drastic for the tier. Cresselia was mediocre and wasn't a difficult Pokemon to limit mainly because of how much Encore is spammed here.

A good addition to the tier as another form of removal. I agree with Moute that it likely finds a good home on offense. I am personally a little skeptical that it'll actually be that good but the Steel-typing does have some benefits but is kinda meh for it in a good amount of matchups. I think regular Donphan will still be better in some cases.

I would have been more appreciative of this mon if Greninja was still here because its presence would have pushed Dark Pulse onto the sets. Outside of like Gastrodon and Slowking, it has great breaking potential. Sludge Bomb at least gives it a chance to fish for the poison to wear them down. I'll be curious to see how well it does as Volcanion's issue usually comes down to the Speed tier.

 

[Lizzie]

Main thing with treads is how good offensive sets will be imo, the loss of power is relevant but the increase in speed more than makes up for it and it does gain some very relevant resists, steel allowing it to keep off rocks vs tinkaton more consistently and the fairy resist is also nice. Booster energy is also very good. Maybe it is more of a sidegrade to donphan than anything but it's for sure a sidegrade I prefer.

 

[Copland]

The drops were just announced, so I'm writing off the cuff here, but I'm really excited for this tier shift. Here's my thoughts on the most impactful rises and drops.



These two leaving is a huge relief, honestly. Moutemoute wrote really nicely about these mons above, so read their post if you haven't already. Meow and Gren were massive threats in nearly every match-up, always capable of making progress and/or winning games outright. While I initially thought Meowscarada was okay for the tier, I had become a bit worried by how consistently powerful the Choice Band set was. Its speed tier was phenomenal in UU, outpacing every relevant unboosted mon outside Talonflame (who has been having a rough time as of late). And on top of being faster than almost anything that could threaten it, the combination of Knock Off, Flower Trick, and U-Turn with any one of Play Rough, Spikes, and Thunder Punch reduced reliable counterplay to Tera Poison mons, chip damage via hazards, and priority. Realistically, you were sacrificing your item, a bunch of HP, or a whole Pokemon to force out the Meow for any momentum swing in your favor. As cool as it was to play around with, I am very happy it's gone.

Speaking of sacrificing a mon, Battle Bond Greninja forced you to dance around its coverage options to prevent it from getting one kill and snowballing through your entire team. Life Orb sets with Water STAB, Ice Beam, and two of Grass Knot, Dark Pulse, and Water Shuriken could win the game off of one favorable turn. If Greninja had stayed, I would absolutely have advocated for a suspect test. UU is not a fast enough, strong enough, or bulky enough tier to handle that kind of power, speed, and coverage. Like Bice said, it seems like the OU ladder did the UU council's work this tier shift.

Moute already talked about some mons who might benefit from Meow and Gren's departure, but I'd like to add Tornadus-T to that list. It now sits at what is an essentially uncontested speed tier and can exert much more pressure against offensive and balance builds.



Is this what dethrones Tinkaton for good? Versus Donphan, the best hazard control, Tink could at least deal big chunk damage with Gigaton Hammer on the switch, or stay in to risk a sneaky Encore. Treads not only resists Hammer, but it also outspeeds Tink by a sizable margin. It competes with Tink as a splashable, bulky Steel on balance and bulky offense structures, and––courtesy of STAB Earthquake––has a much more favorable matchup into top metagame threats, namely Arcanine-H, Goodra-H, (pre-Tera) Skeledirge, and the newly-dropped Volcanion. Of course, Tinkaton is much more specially bulky, resists Fairy and Dark, and has unique support options in Encore, Thunder Wave, and an open move-slot for Rocks. Regardless of its relationship with Tinkaton, though, I think Treads is going to be a metagame staple as the tier continues to settle.

 

[Stranger Meursault]

Apparently it's because Moltres is like one of the best Enamorous-Incarnate counters in OU

Enam's usual attacking trio of Moonblast/Earth Power/Mystical Fire literally cannot dent Moltres at all, and Pressure puts double dance sets on a timer

In addition to walling Enamorus almost entirely, Moltres is strong against many of the most used pokemon in the tier. It is basically an anti-meta pick. Great Tusk can't hit it for any significant damage and risks getting burned or killed by hurricane. Gambit can hit it with dark moves, but doesn't like the risk of burn. Iron Valiant has the same problem as Enamorus, as its STAB moves get walled, and it can only hit hard with coverage moves like thunderbolt (which it often doesn't have). It resists Make It Rain, and can threaten Gholdengo with flamethrower. It walls Cinderace, which doesn't want to libero u-turn and get burned. It checks Zamazenta, which doesn't have a common coverage move to threaten it and doesn't want a burn. Corviknight can't do anything to it. Physical attackers dislike flame body in general.

Overall, it matches up well against enough of the top threats of OU to serve a purpose as a defensive switch in for that tier. It is especially useful on teams that need to shore up a fairy weakness.

It has some significant downsides though, which is why it isn't high up on the usage stats. It needs to run boots, so it can't get the passive recovery of leftovers, forcing it to roost more than it would like. It faces competition from Zapdos, which can check most of the same threats (besides the fairies) provide better offense, and beat Moltres 1v1. Its speed tier is OK, but it usually needs to put its EVs into defensive stats, so it is usually slow. It can be quite passive and many pokemon can stay in on it or even set up (Bax, for example). Garg dominates Moltres, and can get free rocks or salt cure.

Moltres isn't bad in UU, and its stats are better relative to the UU tier, but it doesn't really fill the role of "anti-meta check" that it does in OU. There aren't as many moonblast threats in UU for it to counter. It faces competition from both Skeledirge and Talonflame. Talonflame doesn't have the bulk to survive in OU, but in UU it has a great speed tier, and defog gives it role compression that Moltres lacks. It certainly works in UU, but it has a more defined role in OU.

 

[Goro Yagami]

This may be the future face of Suicide Lead HO. Iron Treads has a great speed tier and access to the same kind of moveset than Donphan so I'm really hyped to see how it's gonna perform with its Steel-type. This looks like a great addition to the tier (and a decent check / way to pressure things such as Tinkaton or Scizor).

I've been waiting for this mon to drop forever exactly for this reason. Good speed + hazard setter and remover + a free moveslot (could be rock tomb, knock off, steel beam maybe), all you can really ask for out of a suicide lead.

 

[gulch]

(real post soon <3)