Pokémon Galarian Darmanitan

[Totomimi]

What are some great checks to GDarm? both Zen BD and Gorilla Tactics Darm? Pex comes to mind but it can't take eq or zen headbutt. Rotom-Wash could also be an option, but it seems that Darmanitan overwhelms it, Coalossal can take on Darmanitan's STABs, but not its coverage, Milotic maybe? I'd have to calc to make sure it doesn't get 2HKOed, what are some mons that can take on Darmanitan?

Rotom fire and jellicent resist everything. Toxapex and and a flying type like corvikinght work as well since the mon is always choiced, you just run the risk of a sick prediction..

Why is this set so potent? Regular Darmanitan-Galar with Gorilla Tactics is incredibly strong as everyone knows. It forces a lot of switches because if it's sent in, it's most often able to outspeed and kill the thing in front of it. Your opponent doesn't know whether you're Gorilla Tactics or Zen Mode, but if they switch, you'll get a free Substitute. This isn't the ony way to get a Sub up but it is the most common. After safely using Belly Drum on the next turn and eating your Salac Berry, you will be at 1676 Attack and 607 Speed.

This is bonkers. It reminds me of sub belly drum kommo-o, except that it has better coverage, speed, and strikes more fear. Definitely viable.

 

[Marca2273]

Darmanitan-Galar @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Gorilla Tactics
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn
- Earthquake

Another tool that i could see being used with galar-darm are the heavy duty boots. Even without scarf or salac berry it has a quite decent speed stat, and with the boots it loses its weakness to stealth rock, which really makes it last longer in battle and helps it fulfill the role of an very hard hitting pivot

 

[Gravelmouse]

Odd that Sub BD Salac Zendarm hasn't been brought up here yet- that's by far Zen's best set and basically mandates priority (not reliable as I'll explain later) or perfect play from any opponent. If said opponent switches in fear of a Gorilla darm's hits, it may be curtains instantly. Ice Punch or Icicle Crash is a given, and then your choice of EQ for more outright power and coverage for Copperajah or Zen Headbutt for the terrain Max Mindstorm provides, removing its best counterplay option entirely and leading to clean sweeps whenever you manage to set up. Fire STAB's coverage is mostly entirely redundant and leaves you dealt with by pex if you aren't lucky with flinches so don't bother.

I think zen mode has a ton of potential, but it is a bit of maintenance, getting terrain up, finding set-up opportunities, not getting killed by dynamax defensive mons. It definitely is a good set, ESPECIALLY if they are expecting gorilla tactics, like you said. However my main idea was that scarf gorilla darm is going to be the bread and butter, its just an amazing splashable mon with great immediate coverage, speed, and power. Its U-turn hits offensive mons so hard often the opponent cannot even predict it, and you get free instant momentum, or they sack their offensive mon. Personally, I think I'll never leave the teambuilder without a mon like U-turn darm, in this current meta, if they have the wrong mon on the field at any time, pokemon such as gyrados and hawlucha often can just win on the spot if you get them in for free.
(Although there is a case for zen mode getting increased viability with the increase use of scarf, because its more unexpected)

 

[Archfaewild]

I think zen mode has a ton of potential, but it is a bit of maintenance, getting terrain up, finding set-up opportunities, not getting killed by dynamax defensive mons. It definitely is a good set, ESPECIALLY if they are expecting gorilla tactics, like you said. However my main idea was that scarf gorilla darm is going to be the bread and butter, its just an amazing splashable mon with great immediate coverage, speed, and power. Its U-turn hits offensive mons so hard often the opponent cannot even predict it, and you get free instant momentum, or they sack their offensive mon. Personally, I think I'll never leave the teambuilder without a mon like U-turn darm, in this current meta, if they have the wrong mon on the field at any time, pokemon such as gyrados and hawlucha often can just win on the spot if you get them in for free.
(Although there is a case for zen mode getting increased viability with the increase use of scarf, because its more unexpected)

The thing I would expect to develop is more what you’re saying where two style of darmanitan teams will develop. One where you play more offensive and abuse gorilla tactics to hit hard with either scarf or band. The other will be those who want to play the more unexpected side and take full advantage of zen mode. Honestly will be interesting and make being able to predict based on team preview that much more valuable if you know which one is coming.

 

[Gravelmouse]

The thing I would expect to develop is more what you’re saying where two style of darmanitan teams will develop. One where you play more offensive and abuse gorilla tactics to hit hard with either scarf or band. The other will be those who want to play the more unexpected side and take full advantage of zen mode. Honestly will be interesting and make being able to predict based on team preview that much more valuable if you know which one is coming.

Like how specs ash gren is clearly the best set, but you can go ahead and steal a win if you go Z, and ice beam some lad.
Just reread what I wrote and thats not the best analogy, so TDLR, you can check scarf defensively, you can check band offensively, but very few mons check both sets(and then you overprep for gorilla and get shredded by psychic terrain zen mode).

 

[Archfaewild]

Like how specs ash gren is clearly the best set, but you can go ahead and steal a win if you go Z, and ice beam some lad.
Just reread what I wrote and thats not the best analogy, so TDLR, you can check scarf defensively, you can check band offensively, but very few mons check both sets(and then you overprep for gorilla and get shredded by psychic terrain zen mode).

Pretty much though! I haven’t played much Galar, so I could be wrong on this. However, I don’t think there is much in this new meta that will be able to effectively check it, given the movepool that darmanitan has.

 

[Rayleigh95]

Anyone know what pokemon can gorilla tactics darmanitan fit well with?

 

[Archfaewild]

Anyone know what pokemon can gorilla tactics darmanitan fit well with?

Hazard support in general works really well with it, both with getting hazards up, and spin blocking to keep them there

 

[Ninjamage]

I've been experimenting with the sub salac berry + belly drum set with zen mode, and it's crazy. Because of how common the choice scarf variant of this mon is, it's incredibly easy to bluff the choice scarf set upon entry and set up substitute on the switch. After that, it's pretty much over. One thing that can be a problem is a hard switch to toxapex, but because of the hyper offensive meta at the moment, it isn't too much of a problem. I've been running fire punch and ice punch, but earthquake could be used for toxapex or zen headbutt for the terrain it gives as someone mentioned above. All in all, I think that the zen mode set has a huge amount of potential, especially because of the power of the choice scarf set. I feel both sets will benefit because of how powerful the other is

 

[Eve]

I've been experimenting with the sub salac berry + belly drum set with zen mode, and it's crazy. Because of how common the choice scarf variant of this mon is, it's incredibly easy to bluff the choice scarf set upon entry and set up substitute on the switch. After that, it's pretty much over. One thing that can be a problem is a hard switch to toxapex, but because of the hyper offensive meta at the moment, it isn't too much of a problem. I've been running fire punch and ice punch, but earthquake could be used for toxapex or zen headbutt for the terrain it gives as someone mentioned above. All in all, I think that the zen mode set has a huge amount of potential, especially because of the power of the choice scarf set. I feel both sets will benefit because of how powerful the other is

I'd really recommend not using Fire Punch, it's almost entirely useless! Most of its coverage overlaps with Ice Punch, and what doesn't overlap, the other coverage options achieve. Toxapex coverage is absolutely worth it.

 

[Atha]

Nobody seems to think that, but I do so let's clarify things a bit. This pokemon is very unhealthy for OU, and, to my point of view, should be suspected very quickly.
Why ? Well, its scarf set is almost impossible to outspeed as well as being able to OHKO almost everything with the right move. When darmanitan comes in (which it does very easily thanks to volt turn + double switches + just replacing a koed pokemon), it is all about mind games. Either you predict the opponent and kill something (it can ohko things like toxapex and hippo, which is absurd), or you "just" u-turn, do insane damage to the switchin (45% to rotom for instance), and keep momentum. The "checks" to it are very few, and definetly more soft checks than counters, as they often/always get 2hkoed by the right move. This is very unpleasant to face / play, as it is definetly more about luck than skill. Don't get me wrong, there is some skill in mindgames, but not as much as in building or having a coherent gameplan to say the least. This is the reason why it is the best lead in the metagame : gives you an opportunity to kill something (not mentionning the absurd mindgames and luck that happen if both players lead with it).
While not being the best pokemon for it, dynamaxing darmanitan can still get you the most free kills the game has ever seen, which makes facing it an even worse experience. Its weakness to rocks is big, but it definetly doesn't make up for its strenght. Also the alternative choice band set gives you a perfectly fair 853 attack, which I don't even need to talk about. The zen set isn't nearly as good, but it can work.

I laddered quite a bit, and at least 50% (likely more) of the teams feature it in decent elos, which speaks for itself. Sorry for my bad english, thanks for reading ; I will happily debate.

 

[PK Gaming]

I absolutely despise this Pokemon, lol

It's about as braindead as braindead gets, and Dynamax complicates the issue of dealing with it by making something (that isn't even that frail) impossible to properly check. The fact that it can be locked into a coverage (like Earthquake) and switch between moves during Dynamax is just the icing on the cake.

Also, its design is garbage.

 

[Modern_Erasmus]

IMO, it's hard to tell how much of this thing is meta-centralizing due to it's own power and how much of it is Dynamax giving it the ability to selectively remove its choice lock to boost itself and kill otherwise safe switch ins.

 

[Nugget]

Nobody seems to think that, but I do so let's clarify things a bit. This pokemon is very unhealthy for OU, and, to my point of view, should be suspected very quickly.
Why ? Well, its scarf set is almost impossible to outspeed as well as being able to OHKO almost everything with the right move. When darmanitan comes in (which it does very easily thanks to volt turn + double switches + just replacing a koed pokemon), it is all about mind games. Either you predict the opponent and kill something (it can ohko things like toxapex and hippo, which is absurd), or you "just" u-turn, do insane damage to the switchin (45% to rotom for instance), and keep momentum. The "checks" to it are very few, and definetly more soft checks than counters, as they often/always get 2hkoed by the right move. This is very unpleasant to face / play, as it is definetly more about luck than skill. Don't get me wrong, there is some skill in mindgames, but not as much as in building or having a coherent gameplan to say the least. This is the reason why it is the best lead in the metagame : gives you an opportunity to kill something (not mentionning the absurd mindgames and luck that happen if both players lead with it).
While not being the best pokemon for it, dynamaxing darmanitan can still get you the most free kills the game has ever seen, which makes facing it an even worse experience. Its weakness to rocks is big, but it definetly doesn't make up for its strenght. Also the alternative choice band set gives you a perfectly fair 853 attack, which I don't even need to talk about. The zen set isn't nearly as good, but it can work.

I laddered quite a bit, and at least 50% (likely more) of the teams feature it in decent elos, which speaks for itself. Sorry for my bad english, thanks for reading ; I will happily debate.

I agree that this Pokémon is pretty wild. At first I wasn't convinced, but after running calcs and just playing around with this absolute demon I can say that this thing is just insane.
I do think that this mon should get suspected but I think dynamax needs to be looked at first. Dynamax isn't the only thing that makes G-Darm totally nuts but Dynamax absolutely does warp the whole meta around it and Darm benefits hugely from it.

The real thing though that I think pushes Darm over the edge, and ultimately might send it to ubers, is the versatility this mon has in the teambuilder. If this mon ONLY had the scarf set it would still be busted as shit. But this mon can run choice band, and this mon can run zen-mode which makes this guy so hard to play around. If you guess wrong about which Darmanitan you're facing, you're probably losing at least one pokemon to it (and probably the one you were counting to actually beat Darmanitan).

I'm interested to see how this Pokémon performs in a meta without Dynamax but I have a feeling his usage would not really drop too terribly much and the sheer level of threat this Pokémon represents make it something you just can't build a team without accounting for. Being weak to Darm seems like it might be an autoloss, dynamax or no.

 

[Padstar34]

I think this really needs to be suspected. Here is the thing. Darm will always be really op in OU. It's stats are crazy when boosted by choice items, and it makes it incredibally overpowered. As long as regular Darm is good, Zen will also be good. When people see Darm, most likely is that they swap. This gives the perfect chance to set up. Proceed to sweep. If you think it isn't enough OHKO, Dynamax any OHKO. Both Dynamax and Darm need to be suspected in my opinion. With the correct allies and predictions, Darm becomes near unkillable.
As for Zen, see below

 

[TURBODERP]

It's about as braindead as braindead gets, and Dynamax complicates the issue of dealing with it by making something (that isn't even that frail) impossible to properly check. The fact that it can be locked into a coverage (like Earthquake) and switch between moves during Dynamax is just the icing on the cake.

Also, its design is garbage.

Agree with most of this except that last part, YOU TAKE THAT BACK.

Leading Scarf Darm is actually pretty darn good most of the time, since you outspeed most things and chunk a bunch with U-Turn. Of course when you get the Darm vs Darm leads then it gets hairy, but still.

I think Dynamaxing compounds the issue because of the reasons you stated, and without Dynamax it'll still be a pain to deal with but quite a bit more manageable.

 

[TiyaTiya]

I'm not the most seasoned player, but I've seen this pokemon way too often so much that I'm using Technician + Choice Band Mach Punch Hitmontop just so it dies on the first turn.

I also agree that the problem is how dynamax interacts with it. Does dynamax disable the use of both its ability and choice item?

Without dynamax, it still poses a huge threat due to how much raw power it has by essentially have two choice items.

 

[Ruft]

I also agree that the problem is how dynamax interacts with it. Does dynamax disable the use of both its ability and choice item?

Yes, it disables both.

 

[Breadboy]

160 atk and 135 speed on this thing with zen mode is absolutely bonkers, not just because those stats make it hit like a truck, but if this thing is brought in against something that NEEDS to switch out against this guy, it gets a free belly drum. With those speed stats it's basically outpacing anything that doesn't get priority.

On top of that, there's not really anything that CAN take a hit from this thing once it's set up. Even the Ferropex combo gets annihilated with no sweat.

 

[Hematemesis]

Darmanitan-Galar @ Salac Berry
Ability: Zen Mode
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Belly Drum
- Fire Punch
- Ice Punch

Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Memento

These two mons work extremely well in tandem with each other. And it makes sense. Dugtrio can trap things that harm Darm, but it’s real power in the core comes from Memento. It kills Dug, but completely shuts down any attacking prowess of an opposing mob. Zen-Darm can basically come in, and it has a much easier time keeping up a substitute long enough to belly drum. As long as there isn’t a ditto, only a select few Pokémon can outspeed Darm’s grotesque 607 speed stat. It’s probable that you win the late game if they don’t have ditto. This core has really untapped potential in my opinion. Lmk your thoughts.

 

[Rotten]

i think you'd definitely want sub salac with zen darm, but i'll have to agree regular galar darm is definitely looking better at this point in time!

oh and ice punch too. ur so strong anyway idt icicle crash gets any notable koes that ice punch does

ik this is a late reply, but when could ice punch be used over icicle crash? It's like using an Ice Punch Weavile. Icicle Crash is only -10 accuracy, which isn't a huge drop. I kind of understand fire punch if you're using zen since flare blitz deals recoil damage and wastes its longevity.

 

[Zentrius]

i personally use ice punch over icicle crush due to reliability overall. like lyd stated, darmanitan is strong as all fuck so it can afford to lose a measly 10 BP in its main STAB. plus, you dont switch something that does not resist ice to this thing because it gets 2hko'd/ohko'd regardless of the ice stab its using. for potential checks, you have coverage in the form of fire, ground and rock offensive presence.

i know hawlucha and gyarados are taking a lot of light in the meta currently due to their incredible potential at sweeping by dynamaxing, but this thing is fucking disgusting and honestly i think it needs to go even before gyarados and hawlucha. gorilla tactics is currently the trend, but once the meta settles, zen mode will have its chance to shine and showcase the disgustingness that is that set in terms of offense.

 

[Rotten]

Both forms are really strong. Gyarados and Hawlucha are strong attackers, but Dynamax Darmanitan can choose different moves out of Choice Scarf/Band without being locked into one move, while Zen is equally as strong with 160 attack and has access to Belly Drum. I say the three are really gonna make it to OU.

 

[Mark_Fox]

ik this is a late reply, but when could ice punch be used over icicle crash? It's like using an Ice Punch Weavile. Icicle Crash is only -10 accuracy, which isn't a huge drop. I kind of understand fire punch if you're using zen since flare blitz deals recoil damage and wastes its longevity.

I think Ice Punch will end up being the more reliable STAB move overall for G-Darm. Darm's other attacks cover pretty well for anything resistant to Ice, and Ice Punch packs a hard hit to anything that doesn't resist it.

While I haven't yet gone extensively through the list, Ice Punch seems so far to be able to pick up the 2HKO on nearly all Pokemon in the tier that take neutral damage to Ice. The only possible exception I've found so far to this is Gyarados: Icicle Crash is a guaranteed 2HKO against the standard DD Gyarados set that most people are running with 4 EVs in Defense, dealing 53.7 - 63.4% (assuming Icicle Crash hits both times).

Meanwhile, Ice Punch deals 47.4 - 56.1% to the same Gyarados, giving it an 82.4% chance to 2HKO (A Gyarados with 0 EVs in Defense has an 87.5% chance to 2HKO). While that may make it seem like Icicle Crash would be the better option, Icicle Crash used twice has an 81% chance of hitting two times in a row (9/10 * 9/10 = 81/100), meaning that both moves have about the same chance to 2HKO Gyarados.

So in this situation Ice Punch would be the better option just for consistency across the board in accuracy while maintaining the ability to 2HKO most mons neutral to Ice. I'm really curious to see what mons, if any, might be able to consistently avoid getting 2HKO'd by Ice Punch but not Icicle Crash. Perhaps a Gyarados with some more EVs in defense, though that would probably not be worth it. Lemme know if anyone finds any other mons that can possibly survive a 2HKO from neutral Ice Punch.

Edit: Forgot to mention but I ran these calculations using Jolly Scarf G-Darm, who also outspeeds Gyarados even after a DD.

 

[Rotten]

I think Ice Punch will end up being the more reliable STAB move overall for G-Darm. Darm's other attacks cover pretty well for anything resistant to Ice, and Ice Punch packs a hard hit to anything that doesn't resist it.

While I haven't yet gone extensively through the list, Ice Punch seems so far to be able to pick up the 2HKO on nearly all Pokemon in the tier that take neutral damage to Ice. The only possible exception I've found so far to this is Gyarados: Icicle Crash is a guaranteed 2HKO against the standard DD Gyarados set that most people are running with 4 EVs in Defense, dealing 53.7 - 63.4% (assuming Icicle Crash hits both times).

Meanwhile, Ice Punch deals 47.4 - 56.1% to the same Gyarados, giving it an 82.4% chance to 2HKO (A Gyarados with 0 EVs in Defense has an 87.5% chance to 2HKO). While that may make it seem like Icicle Crash would be the better option, Icicle Crash used twice has an 81% chance of hitting two times in a row (9/10 * 9/10 = 81/100), meaning that both moves have about the same chance to 2HKO Gyarados.

So in this situation Ice Punch would be the better option just for consistency across the board in accuracy while maintaining the ability to 2HKO most mons neutral to Ice. I'm really curious to see what mons, if any, might be able to consistently avoid getting 2HKO'd by Ice Punch but not Icicle Crash. Perhaps a Gyarados with some more EVs in defense, though that would probably not be worth it. Lemme know if anyone finds any other mons that can possibly survive a 2HKO from neutral Ice Punch.

What you said is true, but that's still only a 20% chance to miss, which isn't too bad if you compare it to Fire Blast or Focus Blast.
Fire Blast has a 30% chance of hitting two turns in a row, while Focus Blast is 60%. In my opinion, it's almost always better to use power over accurate rate, as Pokémon is filled with RNG and luck.