'LE' Smogn invttonl Gam Thred (Mafia Wins)

Yeti said:
all that and ur conclusion is NAI ?

pull out ur readin glasses sonny
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i've been quoting things as i read, and you had like... four posts? when i posted that. And then Tex and Moody hopped on your lynch one after another. I still have a solid 20 pages to go :pikuh:. The post I quoted was on page 10 any AI read of you before then flew over my head.
 
Josh said:
just a meme

so why are texas and i so wrong, and if two of the top global town reads are both pushing you, why isn't scum clamoring to hop on?
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you can be wrong because you havent had the chance to play with me as scum or have been fully there for my last towngames(partly final day in matrix 1)

i can't tell you why my wagon isnt being pushed. there have been people jumping on and off but nobodys really actively pressuring me. there are a number of people also shading my slot and not doing anything about it; nobody else's wagon has had much traction either?
 
we can counterwagon MS and DLE too

i think in the event of TvS in OM and FH(i dont ever really read this as svs) the scum is FH and not OM. the tunnel reminds me of the bullshit tunnel he had on asek last game
 
Tbh kinda down for om or FH lynch at this point I agree that there's probably one scum in them. Probably would prefer om. It's really bothering me how this has gone so long, usually a two way tunnel this hard would fizzle out if it is tvt and this just hasnt.
 
JALMONT said:
2

I thought I would open with a funny story (well I think it's amusing). Some years ago there was a NOC on Smogon and the posting was getting "out of control." I apostrophize this because by today's standards I'm sure the posting was very tame. In any case, the problem that the esteemed circus moderator crux had was that there was too much nonsensical posting for his standards so he threatened to implement a word count and infract people who were posting nonsense. this was a great opportunity for me to poke fun at his nonsense so I started to attach a word count to all of my posts. Then pm'd me to stop being annoying and that was that. Very amusing I know!

(an aside to that aside: why the fuck crux was a moderator only god knows. i don't like to be rude but the dude was a complete asshole. That wasn't even the weird part. The weird part was that he went from literally not playing mafia to becoming the moderator and becoming this big force in mafia games really quickly. to me it seems like he had this weird change in personality from being a normal mafia dude to an aggressive player who was an asshole (and bad moderator, but that goes without saying). it was just really strange. I dunno he just seemed like a very weird dude and then he got permabanned for some reason I forget (although I don't know if I ever knew). Hope he's out there solving cancer or something.)

I guess what this story serves to illustrate (even if it doesn't really, I know) is that shift in playstyle that I was talking about earlier. If something like that seemed absurd then imagine how absurd it would be now. So I suppose now is as good a time as any to delve into why I find it problematic. The "it" being the trend to minimize the length of one's posts in favor of hitting the "post reply" button as many times as possible. The trend I think I am seeing is that the more you can condense a thought (if there even is one) into a multitude of posts the better. "activity" "participation" all your classic buzzwords seem to be tied down into the number of posts you can fill the thread up with. (Again, this is not wrong nor am I asking people to do something different).

I have to ask then - Why is length (length meaning more) seen as measure of success? Something good? I distinctly remember people talking about some NOC game hitting 100++ pages as if that was an achievement to celebrate. why does more mean better? It's as if we've collectively decided that the way to play the game and the way to be seen as playing the game is by posting a lot, regardless of what is being posted. I think you could say the same for people who wallpost, not that that is relevant anymore. I'm not sure we've reached the point where we say a game is good because there were a lot of posts. I think it is too simplistic to make that sort of claim, even if it's probably true that the less posts a NOC has, the worse the game probably was. But it certainly feels like someone could make the argument that the more pages the better.

I guess I need to interrupt myself to add that I'm not entirely sure this is what's happening this game. I've seen a couple posts that make me think or at least I presume they would if I really wanted to think about them. It's not really fair for me to make a definitive statement either way. I know that's hard to do because...well I'm kind of using this thread as my mouthpiece. At the same time it is fair and reasonable I think (see: what I said about how I think people should be able to play how they want to play). That aside, the evidence that this is happening in this game can be seen by the fact that we are at page 37 in less than 24 hours. That seems...excessive...Of course, I leave the judgement out of it. Perhaps I do go back and look, perhaps not. But I think it's important to make clear that while I'm probably talking about this game, I think I'm giving myself enough space to say that I'm not really talking about this game (or any specific game, just the game in general).

Anyways, I've meandered a bit so I'll just cut right to it now - the problem that I have isn't that we've decided that we need to communicate in this way (this way = more posts the better). If that's the way people want to play and think it's a good idea to play, by all means. Rather, it's that the process of doing this has degraded that I feel has degraded the way we transmit meaning and communication. What do I mean by that? I think there's information being lost when people go from wallposting to breaking up that wallpost into 50 different single line thoughts. OK, arguably the ultimate meaning is still there and readily available to be interpreted. What is lacking instead is the reasoning for me.

I think reasoning is so fundamentally important in mafia because it informs every decision people make (well at least I would to think that). Mafia as a game is interesting because it is a "team" game where you don't act as a team but play as an individual. As a result, how one reasons because incredibly important in finding a consensus so that you can act as a team as best as possible. The way in which people interpret and think about the game informs how they act and how they post. Every decision you make in voting comes down to how you reason about the game. The essence of mafia I think boils down to taking 13 or whatever number different people talking about how "we" should reason to find out who is mafia. Largely that comes down to thinking about behavior. How do we interpret behavior and connect that to alignment?

I feel like there's two paths I can go down here. One is how I think about playing mafia (i.e. how do we find the mafia?), the other is more closer to where I started/ended this. What do I mean by lacking reasoning? Why should we care if people lack reason in what they say? I'm not sure what I want to do so I guess I will conclude with this. Both are interesting avenues and are relevant. We'll see which one I decide to go on first.

Later
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you're a funny guy indeed

invitational 1 last year hit 70 pages in 1 day
 
Nuxl said:
you can be wrong because you havent had the chance to play with me as scum or have been fully there for my last towngames(partly final day in matrix 1)

i can't tell you why my wagon isnt being pushed. there have been people jumping on and off but nobodys really actively pressuring me. there are a number of people also shading my slot and not doing anything about it; nobody else's wagon has had much traction either?
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Doesn't fully answer the question because Texas has been in most of your games you ever played, including scum games so he has as much scum meta on you as anyone can possibly get.
 
Duskfall98 said:
Doesn't fully answer the question because Texas has been in most of your games you ever played, including scum games so he has as much scum meta on you as anyone can possibly get.
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ok. i have an issue with this post. not alignment indicative.

the choker squadron of last game Texas Cloverleaf vooper and @Duskfall98(to an extent) got fucking pocketed by me in a 11-1 comeback because town imploded for some dumb reason and trd my wallposts and interactions. all three of you incorrectly read me as town IN MY SCUMGAME. so no, you cannot accurately read me. all three of you are not accurately reading me this game either and i am obviously biased but there are pretty clear differences that you should probably be using for research instead of thinking my bad posts in this game are directly scum indicative.
 
Nuxl said:
ok. i have an issue with this post. not alignment indicative.

the choker squadron of last game Texas Cloverleaf vooper and @Duskfall98(to an extent) got fucking pocketed by me in a 11-1 comeback because town imploded for some dumb reason and trd my wallposts and interactions. all three of you incorrectly read me as town IN MY SCUMGAME. so no, you cannot accurately read me. all three of you are not accurately reading me this game either and i am obviously biased but there are pretty clear differences that you should probably be using for research instead of thinking my bad posts in this game are directly scum indicative.
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that is a huge shame


texas do you plead guilty to being pocketed by tigger?
 
Nuxl said:
ok. i have an issue with this post. not alignment indicative.

the choker squadron of last game Texas Cloverleaf vooper and @Duskfall98(to an extent) got fucking pocketed by me in a 11-1 comeback because town imploded for some dumb reason and trd my wallposts and interactions. all three of you incorrectly read me as town IN MY SCUMGAME. so no, you cannot accurately read me. all three of you are not accurately reading me this game either and i am obviously biased but there are pretty clear differences that you should probably be using for research instead of thinking my bad posts in this game are directly scum indicative.
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So what? We didn't read you well last game so let's just never scum read you again? That's really bad logic, just because we played bad last game doesn't mean we don't have a right to read you ever again.
 
Duskfall98 said:
So what? We didn't read you well last game so let's just never scum read you again? That's really bad logic, just because we played bad last game doesn't mean we don't have a right to read you ever again.
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thats not what i implied at all, don't misconstrue this

ok ok. why exactly are you scumreading me. why did you townread me last game? what comparisons can you make between myplay this game and my last scumgame that lead you to this conclusion that i am scum?
 
Nuxl said:
ok. i have an issue with this post. not alignment indicative.

the choker squadron of last game Texas Cloverleaf vooper and @Duskfall98(to an extent) got fucking pocketed by me in a 11-1 comeback because town imploded for some dumb reason and trd my wallposts and interactions. all three of you incorrectly read me as town IN MY SCUMGAME. so no, you cannot accurately read me. all three of you are not accurately reading me this game either and i am obviously biased but there are pretty clear differences that you should probably be using for research instead of thinking my bad posts in this game are directly scum indicative.
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Saying there are "clear" differences isn't really a good defence, point out the differences for us at the least that you think are so obvious?
 
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