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All Gens Underrated Sets

Mostly DPP stuff:

Clefable @ Mail/Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 104 Def / 152 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Cosmic Power
- Charge Beam
- Ice Beam
- Soft-Boiled

Works a bit differently from CM clef, as it lets you boost defences prior to special attack, which works a lot better against physically oriented teams. I find that after two cosmic powers there isn't a dire need for Leftovers, whereas Mail prevent trick from Rotom/Jirachi (maybe Starmie/Gengar?) which might be important for last mon setup.

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 52 Def / 204 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss
- Reflect

Nothing really innovative about this set, but I don't usually see reflect as last. I like it quite a lot with thunder wave on teams otherwise susceptible to band Tyranitar as you can set up a reflect as they switch in (no need to predict pursuit/superpower). It's also quite nice against things such as Gyarados/Flygon, and can even tank a banded close combat from Infernape in dire situations and hit them with a T-wave.

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SpA / 184 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Heal Block
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Recover

Kind of a niche set that should only be used on certain teams, but I've always liked Celebi and have used this set on teams that otherwise struggle vs. Skarmory (and helps vs. Clefable/Blissey to an extent as well). Feel free to adjust EV's.

Metagross @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 8 HP / 252 Atk / 248 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Agility
- Magnet Rise
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake

Again another niche set, but it's very useful against Swampert/Bronzong team archetypes that are quite predominant in the meta. Magnet Rise allows you to fish for attack raises with MM. Still beats Flygon/EQ Dragonite, but miss out on things such as Zapdos and Breloom which can be quite annoying. Don't really need to be said but pair this dude up with a Magnezone for maximum efficiency.

Hoping to see some more cool DPP techs this SPL :heart:
 
DPP
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Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 3 Atk / 30 SpA
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Ice Beam
- Recover

Offensive Milotic is one of my favorite mons to use in DPP OU, and is definitely not something that you want to sleep on. Not only is this thing powerful, it is a great check to most offensive fire types and can sponge hits from many common threats like tyranitar and gyarados. It is also great in the lead position and can deny Starmie from spinning your hazards away. This set applies good pressure and is very versatile in the things that it can do, this also can make quite a good lead.

rotom-wash.png

Rotom-Wash @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Ball
- Hydro Pump

I have just started using this set recently because I got tired of my Rotom-W getting trapped and dying so with colbur berry, you kind of make it easy to either cripple a threat before you faint, or if you want to swap back in again, this is a good alternative. This also makes a good check to physical attacker whom only have a dark move to hit you like Lucario. It also might be the best machamp counter available as this completely neuters it.

245MS.png

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 40 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Surf
- Roar

Very interesting set that I saw BKC post about once. This set pretty much counters gyara and can be very scary to play against when you pair it with toxic spikes. The general gist of the set is sub up, calm mind and then roar out your opponents checks and counters to rack up hazard damage. This set can sometimes auto win vs unprepared teams.

135MS.png

Jolteon @ Magnet / Choice Specs
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Baton Pass
- Hidden Power [Grass]

I think more people should use Jolteon. While Jolteon is good when paired with Gyarados, i think it is a mon that can be used on its own. Sure raikou may be more appealing at times, but jolteon has a higher base speed and can be a lot more threatening to offensive teams. With spikes support, this mon becomes even better and can clean up a lot of weakened teams. This is a seriously underrated mon and it can definitelysuprise some teams.
 
GSC OU

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Misdreavus @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
- Perish Song
- Pain Split
- Thunder
- Toxic / Hypnosis

Misdreavus has a stellar typing which allows her to check almost every variants of Snorlax bar BD + EQ ones and to act as a pretty reliable spinblocker (although she really hates Toxic) granted she has the tools needed, which means Perish Song for Curselax and Thunder against Cloyster, Starmie and Forretress. This set aims to fulfill those tasks in exchange of not being able to pressure the opponent with either PerishTrap or Thief, but Pain Split and the threats of statues is still something to take advantage of. She can also help you against non-HP Ghost machamp and Heracross as well. While Toxic is very useful to check said Pokemon, Hypnosis is also something to consider since most Missy's switchins are phazers or Pursuits users which doesn't carry Sleep Talk very often, although the accuracy can bite you by ruining the surprise, especially since Missy can't pressure most ST users bar Skarmory.

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Porygon2 @ Leftovers
Ability: Trace
- Curse
- Double-Edge
- Thunder / Zap Cannon
- Recover

Porygon2 is known as an excellent Para spreader, however it is pretty easy to stop as a Mono-Attacking Sweeper and Ice Beam really doesn't provide a very useful coverage in my opinion (it threatens only Defensive Dragonite and Rhydon / Golem), trying to freeze the opponent with it can take hours too. If you're not using Curse, then the opponent will likely bring a Rest user to absorb the incoming paralysis or poison (granted this Rest user doesn't fear Ice Beam or Thunderbolt). However, against this set, you're opponent could assume that you're not carrying an Electric-move once you have used Curse and would likely bring a sturdy Toxic User like Cloyster, a phazer like Skarmory, a Charm / Growl user like Umbreon, a Misdreavus... whatever they use to check Curselax and which hates Paralysis or Electric-type, and there's a plenty of it (Skarm, Cune, Tar, Gar, Missy, Tank, Umby, AA Vap...). Thunder is normally the best option mainly because of the accuracy (although 70 % is still deceiving) and the added power allows a potential OHKO against Cloyster as well as a guarranted 3HKO against Suicune and Vaporeon, but Zap Cannons guarranted paralysis is appealing. Obviously, this leaves you helpless aginst Steelix, Rhydon and Gloem, so be sure to be able to get rid of them.
 
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Cursegon2 kinda likes return > double-edge to make out-PPing Snorlax easier. In that same vein, IB gives you a way to outright beat Snorlax by freezing it, rather than essentially "trading" your Pgon2's PP for Snorlax's.

I kinda like the idea of mixed Pgon2 personally:

Porygon2 @ Leftovers
-Double-Edge
-Thunder
-Ice Beam
-Recover

DE hits Snorlax about as hard as Nidoking's EQ. The main thing it offers over Nidoking is additional tankiness with Recover, better defenses, and fewer weaknesses. Comes in especially handy against Exeggutor in particular. It can also eat paralysis with fewer issues because of it, so it can more reliably play for freezes against Miltank. You're probably better off using Nidoking for LK and the lack of type-redundancy with Snorlax, but on its own merits, mixgon2 could do some damage.
 
I understand the gist of it, P2 is less reliant on its speed and bulkier than Nidoking, but PAR is still kind of a pain in the ass for it. The threat of losing turns is a big deal to P2 since it eats 40% from STAB Thunders and shit, unfortunately it is no Snorlax replacement bulk-wise and Recover doesn't remove status like Rest either. As for Nidoking, it has important resistances that arguably outweigh its weaknesses, particularly the Electric immunity.

I like the idea but I'm not sure P2 has the brute force potential to just mash the attack button every turn, I don't really trust anything but Machamp, Marowak, maybe Rhydon to do that. Stuff like Nidoking and Tyranitar with middling power always supplement it with some sort of utility (LK, Pursuit/Roar respectively) and a full attack P2 doesn't really do that unless you're counting the RNG on your Boltbeam. I could be wrong, since it does 3HKO a vast majority of things (and 4HKOs Lax, strong enough to KO with luck and prevent any setup) although maybe not once you start taking turns off to Recover and opponents get extra Leftovers recovery. Dragonite is awfully similar offensively, mind all the other dissimilarities (no Recover, type weaks/resists, etc.), and is extremely impotent despite having a larger attacking movepool and not being shackled to Recover in one of its move slots.

But it's so aggravating choosing between Ice Beam and TB/Thunder on a conventional set running two non-attacking moves (Curse, TWave, or whatever else), where you either do absolutely nothing to Rocks or you let Skarmory and Cloyster of all things walk all over you, so maybe it is the answer to Make P2 Great Again. (Or the BoltBeam option but not running STAB makes you a dog against anything neutral to both elemental attacks, particularly Raikou and Lax, and neutral DE hits almost as hard as SE BoltBeam anyway.)
 
Maybe not really an underrated set since it's quite popular among some RBY players (even the top ones) but for some reason it's not included in smogon analysis:

chansey.png

Chansey
-Thunder Wave
-Seismic Toss
-Reflect
-Soft-Boiled

Thanks to reflect, this set makes Chansey very good at taking physical hits (as long as it doesn't get crit). Even self-KO moves can't OHKO Chansey when the reflect is up. It is particularly good at dealing with Snorlax, especially the non-rest variants. With paralysis support it can also put big pressure on opposing Zam since SToss deals considerably more dmg than BoltBeam.
 
Reflect Toss Chansey is truly a worthless garbage abomination of a pokemon nobody should ever use, but most of the oldgen analyses are pretty dated considering the surprising amount of metagame development that has happened in the past 2-3 years.
 
Both Reflect and Stoss are mentioned as OOs in the on-site analysis. Reflect is the very first OO. Stoss gets a mention as a gimmick useful primarily for dealing with Alakazam. Its ability to pair with Reflect, which causes stall wars with a poke like Alakazam, is probably underrated according to that oldish analysis though.
 
LibertarianMaster said:
Maybe not really an underrated set since it's quite popular among some RBY players (even the top ones) but for some reason it's not included in smogon analysis:

chansey.png

Chansey
-Thunder Wave
-Seismic Toss
-Reflect
-Soft-Boiled

Thanks to reflect, this set makes Chansey very good at taking physical hits (as long as it doesn't get crit). Even self-KO moves can't OHKO Chansey when the reflect is up. It is particularly good at dealing with Snorlax, especially the non-rest variants. With paralysis support it can also put big pressure on opposing Zam since SToss deals considerably more dmg than BoltBeam.
Click to expand...

This set is definitely a standard set along with the beam/bolt one. This one tends to pair better with a physlax, while the beam/bolt set tends to pair better with a reflectlax set.

This set can out pp stall a beam/bolt one, and can with a little luck take down an Alakazam. As well as shut down physlax.

Beside these two standard sets, there is another oo set, which is commonly used as well. [ sing/twave/sboil/stoss ]. Counter is an oo option some where in there too.
 
Reflect and Toss individually are fine moves, but I don't really understand the point of pairing them (with TWave) because you're pretty much auto-PP stalled by switching between recovery users since you literally can't kill anything. If you insist on sitting behind Reflect being an unkillable do-nothing douchebag, Ice Beam is at least liable to score you one "KO" via freeze.

I say it's high time for Rest to make its way back into Rhydon's filler slot. :blobthinking: Zapdos usage is too high relative to Goldon usage recently anyway, we must restore balance to The Force.
 
I'd prefer Thunder Wave on Reflect Chansey as paralysis is always great, but I kinda see your reasoning. It might actually make a pretty good lure on Zapdos or Jolteon teams to bait and weaken Rhydon by revealing Reflect / Seismic Toss before pulling out Ice Beam. This set also has better matchups against ReflectLax and AmnesiaLax since freeze > SToss+hope for FPs on the turns it tries to Rest.

As for Rest Rhydon, that's actually something I've been using quite a bit, particularly on my semi-stallish Porygon teams. I like being able to be a bit more aggressive with it and still wall Zapdos forever. Reflect Chansey's recent popularity is also good for it. I'd say Sub is better, but I usually never get lucky with FPs to really gain anything from it.
 
Enigami said:
I'd prefer Thunder Wave on Reflect Chansey as paralysis is always great, but I kinda see your reasoning. It might actually make a pretty good lure on Zapdos or Jolteon teams to bait and weaken Rhydon by revealing Reflect / Seismic Toss before pulling out Ice Beam. This set also has better matchups against ReflectLax and AmnesiaLax since freeze > SToss+hope for FPs on the turns it tries to Rest.

As for Rest Rhydon, that's actually something I've been using quite a bit, particularly on my semi-stallish Porygon teams. I like being able to be a bit more aggressive with it and still wall Zapdos forever. Reflect Chansey's recent popularity is also good for it. I'd say Sub is better, but I usually never get lucky with FPs to really gain anything from it.
Click to expand...

Something I've been trying, in some super bulky and sllw paced teams, was EQ/RS/Sub/Rest. As it worked as my main wincondition AND one of my main RefChansey counterplay I was enjoying the combinaison of both Rest and Substitute.
 
Mr.E said:
Reflect Toss Chansey is truly a worthless garbage abomination of a pokemon nobody should ever use
Click to expand...

Well this is interesting...
EB0LA said:
This set is definitely a standard set along with the beam/bolt one. This one tends to pair better with a physlax, while the beam/bolt set tends to pair better with a reflectlax set.

This set can out pp stall a beam/bolt one, and can with a little luck take down an Alakazam. As well as shut down physlax.
Click to expand...

Maya Chansey said:
Reflect/Seismic Toss/Thunder Wave/Softboiled is definitely a standard and very effective Chansey set.
Click to expand...


Maya Chansey said:
Also, it is better at walling reflect Snorlax than 4 attacks Snorlax, LibertarianMaster.
Click to expand...

Why do you point that out? I didn't even mention reflect lax in my short comment on the set.
 
Mr.E said:
Reflect and Toss individually are fine moves, but I don't really understand the point of pairing them (with TWave) because you're pretty much auto-PP stalled by switching between recovery users since you literally can't kill anything. If you insist on sitting behind Reflect being an unkillable do-nothing douchebag, Ice Beam is at least liable to score you one "KO" via freeze.

I say it's high time for Rest to make its way back into Rhydon's filler slot. :blobthinking: Zapdos usage is too high relative to Goldon usage recently anyway, we must restore balance to The Force.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but with out the use of twave, once you're Chansey is paralyzed, and forcedbto:smogthink:
LibertarianMaster said:
Well this is interesting...







Why do you point that out? I didn't even mention reflect lax in my short comment on the set.
Click to expand...

Also stoss is better vs. Jynx's & Gengar leads. Also reflect helps vs. Zapdos's drill peck. Hiding behind reflect spreading paralysis, and switching out at opportune moments, makes it a good status inflictor, with solid cover. Chansey isn't much of a killer.
 
It's only a good status inflictor to the point that your opponent is willing to risk bringing Tauros into Chansey because Snorlax doesn't give two shits about being paralyzed (and Toss takes nine years to kill it), Goldon are immune to TWave and all of Chansey's recovery buddies (mirror included) tend to paralyze each other regardless because they're already the best switches into each other. Reflect isn't really doing anything except discouraging Tauros from switching in, as Snorlax will eventually win with a crit most of the time and you can't do anything to it without the threat of Ice Beam freeze.
 
Mr. E, if you watch the top RBY players battle (such as Peasounay, Marcoasd, etc.) you will see that they commonly use the reflect Chansey set, and it is definitely viable. Giving Chansey reflect makes it harder to break (not only against Tauros) and helps it spread status, which is really useful. I don't think you understand how typical matches revolving around reflect Chansey play out, seeing that you made comments about how boltbeam Chansey is more effective against Snorlax and that the reflect set's only use is discouraging Tauros from switching in. Both of these statements are misleading/incorrect, since 1.) reflect Chansey cannot be broken by reflect Snorlax and forces it to rest, letting threatening pokemon such as Exeggutor come in; 2.) reflect Chansey walls 4 attacks Snorlax better than boltbeam variants and usually forces it to boom; and 3.) Tauros is not the only pokemon that is walled harder by reflect Chansey than boltbeam Chansey. Ultimately, the fact that reflect Chansey gains immense physical and special bulk, combined with the fact that body slam from Snorlax can't paralyze it, means that it is most definitely a viable set that many players struggle to break, losing momentum and having their team slowly crippled as they attempt to do so.
 
Mr.E said:
It's only a good status inflictor to the point that your opponent is willing to risk bringing Tauros into Chansey because Snorlax doesn't give two shits about being paralyzed (and Toss takes nine years to kill it), Goldon are immune to TWave and all of Chansey's recovery buddies (mirror included) tend to paralyze each other regardless because they're already the best switches into each other. Reflect isn't really doing anything except discouraging Tauros from switching in, as Snorlax will eventually win with a crit most of the time and you can't do anything to it without the threat of Ice Beam freeze.
Click to expand...
Snorlax crits are relatively rare, and Reflect Chansey can often plan for them by recovering as soon as its HP falls into crit KO range. Reflect enables Chansey to switch into literally anything and wall it, with the only catch being that certain things are dependent on whether or not you have para. Meanwhile if your opponent doesn't prep for Chansey stalling the world out, SToss will slowly wear them down and you'll force switches and thus be able to spread para. If your opponent does prepare, whether via a Rest user or some sort of booster, then Chansey struggles to accomplish much, besides negating the momentum of whatever it switched into.

Also although Lax can function paralysed, it definitely cares about para, since the Lax ditto is super important without paraslam
 
Not really any advanced preparation required to stall out a Chansey whose only attack is Seismic Toss, considering the modern user's undying love of Snorlax which will frequently carry Rest, nevermind that most teams supplement their own Chansey with one of if not both Starmie and Zam. That's not even counting whatever other things might carry Rest. What are the odds your opponent strings together 3-4 full paralyses and your Chansey never FPs, such that Toss could actually result in KO? Much less than Lax critting you at the right time.

But any of those three end up paralyzed all the time by either each other, or Eggy, and it has nothing to do with whether or not Chansey is running Reflect. They paralyze each other because most every physical threat gets their ass handed to them by strong special attacks (usually STAB Psychic), Tauros additionally wanting to avoid paralysis so it can dominate endgame scenarios, so they all constantly switch in amongst each other. Chansey doesn't have the power of its Psychic-type buddies, as a special-oriented Normal-type, but it still has TWave to discourage Tauros and Ice Beam is still a 2HKO on the type-disadvantaged Goldon.

Toss does deal a lot more damage than Ice Beam against Chansey's fellow recoverers, so like okay I guess it forces them to recover more often for more safe switch-out opportunities. I'm not convinced that's better than cumulative 10% chances to pseudo-KO two of the "Big Four" (fellow Chansey, where trying to avoid paralyzing it to go for freeze is a common strategy, and Snorlax who often carries Rest which will win a PP war even against Toss's 32 PP), plus not losing to Goldon.

Maya Chansey said:
boltbeam
Click to expand...
Don't strawman me, I've never once mentioned Thunderbolt.

This is about using Ice Beam over Seismic Toss as the sole offensive move on Reflect Chansey, granted I don't particularly like Reflect on Chansey period. The only matchup Reflect really flips is non-Rest Snorlax, and to a lesser extent Golem although Ice Beam without Reflect is probably still better than Reflect without Ice Beam there. (It's definitely better against Rhydon, as Rhydon should beat Toss-only Chansey regardless of Reflect.) I suppose to a lesser extent Reflect also protects it from Eggy and Gengar Explosions, though the former will very likely be able to chip Chansey down first regardless because Psychic's drop rate won't let you sit there and recover forever.

I like Reflect on Snorlax more, since it's nice in the mirror and Body Slam doesn't threaten to paralyze Tauros coming in like Chansey's TWave does.
 
Sorry, I thought we were talking about standard sets. Ice beam cannot replace seismic toss on the reflect set, since it makes you lose neutral coverage and leaves you walled by Lapras, Starmie, Jynx, Cloyster, Slowbro, etc. Also, you keep bringing up Rhydon as the main reason that the standard reflect Chansey set is bad. While it is true that Rhydon can pressure this set, you should realize that Rhydon is a single pokemon that is on the lower end of OU viability and isn't the most common filler. Rhydon's presence is not enough to reduce the viability of reflect Chansey. If you don't believe me, however, then just look at replays from expert RBY players or ask them their opinion. Reflect/Seismic Toss/Thunder Wave/Softboiled is an established Chansey set and it's common knowledge among RBY mains that it works well (and more so than other niche sets that were mentioned for obscure reasons).
 
Also, you keep isolating the reflect-seismic toss Chansey matchup with other pokemon, which is a faulty manner of thinking. This Chansey set isn't supposed to defeat things like reflect Snorlax 1v1. It is supposed to be a near-indestructable wall that provides defensive pivots (ex: forcing Snorlax to rest and then switching to something like Exeggutor), spreads status, and overall saps the opponents momentum.
 
Common knowledge or conventional wisdom isn't always correct, and usage stats don't prove objective goodness.

Toss is still walled by Starmie, Slowbro, most Jynx, etc. because it's not like Seismic Toss can actually kill anything, and Rest users can't even be cheesed by ultra-lucky paralysis. That is my point. Reflect Chansey might sap the opponent's momentum, but it doesn't do anything to kickstart your own either. All Toss does is force Zam/Starmie to Recover more frequently. That will eventually earn you a turn, but that turn was just prepaid for by you having switched Chansey in to begin with (and even with Reflect you don't want to actually switch it into physical attackers, you still switch into special attackers and use Reflect as a deterrent). Ice Beam can actually "KO" any non-Ice Rest user that would otherwise attempt to counterstall Chansey, and KOs > not-KOs in my book.

(Incidentally, that's not always true in newer gens, where intentionally leaving the opponent crippled but alive can facilitate a setup sweeper... but this is RBY yo.)

Actually I guess that kinda applies to all Chansey, Reflect or not, which is part of why I think Chansey is overrated (Zam mostly does the same things better, at the cost of switching into physical attacks being completely unviable rather than merely a bad idea) but that's a totally different topic. Forgoing Reflect at least gets you a second attack where you have Toss to force more frequent recovery in Chansey vs special matchups (and can cheese a kill if you're really lucky), Ice Beam to threaten freeze and beat Goldon (esp. Rhydon), or Tbolt to more directly force Starmie out and beat Lapras. Reflect might be better than Tbolt. *shrug*
 
The reason I was pointing out the opinions of players like Peasounay is because they have mastered the tier and know more about it than you do. I do not want to sound rude, but each of your posts has presented opinions that are reflective of someone who does not play RBY OU frequently. For example, in your most recent post you say that, "All Toss does is force Zam/Starmie to Recover more frequently." This is incorrect, since seismic toss gives you neutral coverage and allows Chansey to hit pokemon like Lapras, so making Zam and Starmie need to recover more frequently is not its sole purpose. You also say that Alakazam does the same things as Chansey, which is completely untrue. Alakazam has far less bulk on both the physical and special side and does not glue teams together like Chansey does.
 
Okay my man, one does not always need to agree with Mr.E, but most of his points at least make sense.

I don't want to go over every argument here and post my opinion about it, but the "All Toss does is force Zam/Starmie to Recover more frequently."-part is definitely true.

You have to try and understand where Mr.E is coming from. He's talking from another standpoint than you are. He argues based on what S-Toss actually is better against than BoltBeam, damage wise. And the answer he gives is correct. It merely forces Zam to Recover more. When you say it hits Lapras, I cry inside. Lapras is 5HKOed by Toss, whereas T-Bolt 3HKOs (not to mention that could turn into a 2HKO with CRIT, something that S-Toss also can't do, which is quite a big deal). So if you want to hit Lapras, you use Thunderbolt.

Not saying that this is the only measuring stick the Reflect/S-Toss set should be measured against, since the pupose of the set is merely to kill momentum from the opposing Snorlax (a little exaggerated of course), whith the nice side effect of having more PP than BoltBeam. Still, you keep bringing up top players using it as an argument how good it is, notably you keep refering to Peasounay. And while it is true that Peasounay was the biggest Reflect+S-Toss spammer in the RBY scene, if you carefully watch his more recent games (actually probably the last year), he did use BoltBeam Chansey quite a bit more than Reflect+S-Toss. So think about arguments why Reflect+S-Toss Chansey is so good (it is good, but I think you overrate it) and don't refer to Peasounay, who himself has left the path of a Reflect-Chansey spammer behind quite a while ago.

And without explaining further (because I might be wrong about it and if not, it would require me to write an even longer book post) I think people slowly realize that Reflect+S-TossChansey is not the holy grail it was made out to be when it got popular (basically Mr.E's point, if I understand him correctly).
 
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