OU Theorymon (Playable via Challenge on PS!)

[Tressed]

Approved by The Immortal
Taken over from Isa Simple. You can find the last thread here.

banner by Ssensenh
​

Welcome to OU Theorymon! This project was created to examine the effects of buffing (an added move, changed ability, or type change) a Pokemon below a B- ranking in the OU metagame.

ADDED POKEMON

Archive

+ Vital Spirit

+ Normal/Ghost typing

+ Poison/Steel typing

+ Magic Guard

+ Technician

+ Sand Stream

+ Dark/Fairy typing and Parting Shot

+ Protean

+ Defiant

+ Lightning Rod

+ Volt Switch

+ Simple

+ Wish

+ Sucker Punch

+ Electric/Steel typing and Flash Cannon (replaces Air Slash)

+ Roost

+ Focus Blast

+ Fur Coat

+ Steel/Dragon typing

+ Water Absorb

+ Recover

+ Thousand Arrows

+ Extreme Speed

+ Sand Rush

+ Bug/Ground typing

+ Gale Wings

+ Fairy/Ground Typing

+ Trace

+ Poison Heal

+ Dragon Dance

+ Dragon/Ghost typing and Analytic

+ Drought

+ Ghost/Fighting Typing and Drain Punch

+ Poison/Dark Typing and Regenerator

+ Dark / Fighting-typing and Vacuum Wave

+ Spikes

+ Magnet Pull

+ Seed Flare

+ Thick Fat

+ Rattled and Moonblast

+ Iron Barbs and Recover

+ Volt Switch and Regenerator

+ Intimidate

+ Steel / Flying-typing and Flash Cannon

+ Prankster

+ Trick Room and U-turn

+ Fairy / Ghost-typing

+ Bug / Ground and Earth Power

CLAUSES & BANLISTS

• Standard OU clauses and ban lists apply

If you wish to participate in the growth of this project, please do so in the Project Thread.
We now have a room on Pokemon Showdown! Click me to join!

Note: The original thread is for coming up with new Theorymons. This thread is for discussing the current Theorymon metagame.

• Please don't post submissions for the project here. If you have any questions, please PM any or all of the council members: Recreant(Leader), Valmanway, Isa Simple, Akumeoy, GnralLao, and Tressed .

• THIS IS PLAYABLE AS CHALLENGE FORMAT ON POKEMON SHOWDOWN. If you want to play OU Theorymon, you have to click on a user's name and challenge them to a battle. You can select the meta from there.

Discussion:

Pretty much anything related to the meta that isn't against any standard Smogon rules, and isn't ideas for new theorymons is valuable discussion.
Feel free to talk about new cores, the theorymon's influences on the meta, sets, which pokemon become more/less viable as a result of an added theorymon, post replays of your experiences, all that jazz.

Also feel free to discuss what kind of impact the pokemon of the current slates in the Project will have on this meta.

Current Slate:

+ Flying / Fighting-typing

+ Drizzle and Wish

+ Desolate Land + Fire / Ground-typing

+ Regenerator and Head Smash

We hope you'll participate and have fun with OU Theorymon!

 

[Tressed]

OU Theorymon VR

S Rank:

S Rank

Diancie (Mega)

Keldeo

A Rank:

A+ Rank

Alakazam (Mega)

Azumarill

Charizard (Mega-X)

Entei

Excadrill

Garchomp

Gengar

Heatran

Jirachi

Landorus-T

Lopunny (Mega)

Metagross (Mega)

Pidgeot (Mega)

Slowbro

Talonflame

Tornadus-T

Thundurus

A Rank

Altaria (Mega)

Bisharp

Braviary

Charizard (Mega-Y)

Gardevoir (Mega)

Gliscor

Goodra

Gyarados (Mega)

Kyurem-B

Latios

Manectric (Mega)

Medicham (Mega)

Moltres

Rotom-W

Scizor (Mega)

Tyranitar

Venusaur (Mega)

Virizion

Weavile

A- Rank

Aerodactyl (Mega)

Alakazam

Breloom

Clefable

Ferrothorn

Gyarados

Hippowdon

Klefki

Latias

Latias (Mega)

Latios (Mega)

Magnezone

Mew

Pinsir (Mega)

Sandslash

Serperior

Slowbro (Mega)

Starmie

Tentacruel

Zoroark

B Rank:

B+ Rank

Amoonguss

Cradily

Diggersby

Dragonite

Gastrodon

Gogoat

Heracross (Mega)

Kingdra

Krookodile

Mamoswine

Manaphy

Porygon-Z

Politoed

Raikou

Jolteon

Sableye (Mega)

Sceptile (Mega)

Skarmory

Suicune

Swanna
Tangrowth

Terrakion

Togekiss

Torterra

Volcarona

B Rank

Absol (Mega)

Archeops

Beedrill (Mega)

Bronzong

Cobalion

Crawdaunt

Chansey

Empoleon

Dragalge

Feraligatr

Gallade (Mega)

Garchomp (Mega)

Houndoom (Mega)

Hydreigon

Kabutops

Metagross

Quagsire

Reuniclus

Scizor

Sharpedo (Mega)

Slowking

Swampert (Mega)

Victini

Xatu

B- Rank

Audino (Mega)

Alomomola

Hawlucha

Lucario

Mandibuzz

Omastar

Scolipede

Stunfisk

Thundurus-T
Toxicroak

Tyranitar (Mega)

Venusaur

Zapdos

C Rank:

C+ Rank

Aggron (Mega)

Ampharos (Mega)

Azelf

Banette (Mega)

Blastoise (Mega)

Celebi

Chesnaught

Conkeldurr

Granbull

Infernape

Kyurem

Nidoking

Rhyperior

Rotom-F

Seismitoad

Shiftry

Staraptor

Sylveon

Tyrantrum

Zygarde

C Rank

Abomasnow (Mega)

Cofagrigus

Cresselia

Dugtrio

Forretress

Gourgeist-XL

Heracross

Krookodile

Magneton

Muk

Porygon2

Rotom-H

Shuckle

Victreebel

Whimsicott

C- Rank

Blissey

Camerupt (Mega)

Cacturne

Cloyster

Froslass

Jellicent

Mantine

Nidoqueen

Pangoro

Roserade

Shaymin

D Rank:

Chandelure

Donphan

Emboar

Haxorus

Honchkrow

Mienshao

Sableye

Umbreon

Weezing

Pending placement

Meloetta

Escavalier

Cresselia

Volcanion

Sample Teams

CCAT

Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Return
- Fake Out
- Power-Up Punch

Porygon-Z @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Modest/Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Agility
- Tri Attack
- Shadow Ball

Landorus-T @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off
- U-Turn

Azumarill @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Waterfall
- Aqua Jet
- Ice Punch

Thundurus @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Ice
- Taunt
- Thunder Wave

Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
- Volt Switch
- Rapid Spin

 

[Akumeoy]

F1RST

Stunfisk + Volt Switch + Regenerator seems poised to win this slate, so let's talk about it a little. How it performs against standard threats (quite well imo) is best left for the main thread, so let's talk about how it does against Theorymons, starting with an Assault Vest set.

The set

Stunfisk @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Volt Switch
- Earth Power
- Discharge / Scald
- Sludge Wave / Scald

Volt Switch: muh pivoting moves
Earth Power: gr8 stab
Discharge: like Scald except it inflicts the most balanced status in the game
Sludge Wave: hits grass types
Scald: muh burns

Spread: generic idk

Defensive calcs

I did these with 0 SpD instead of 4 SpD. Sue me.

+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 297-351 (70.3 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Stunfisk: 335-398 (79.3 - 94.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO <<< holy fuck

252+ Atk Mega Steelix Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 282-332 (66.8 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 0 Atk Mega Steelix Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 314-372 (74.4 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO <<< SpD Curse set

252+ Atk Choice Band Braviary Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 168-198 (39.8 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Braviary Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 125-147 (29.6 - 34.8%) -- 13.7% chance to 3HKO

252 SpA Froslass Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Stunfisk: 144-170 (34.1 - 40.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Moltres Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Stunfisk: 168-199 (39.8 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Stunfisk: 90-107 (21.3 - 25.3%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Virizion Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 242-283 (57.3 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Mega Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Stunfisk in Harsh Sunshine: 217-256 (51.4 - 60.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Protean Goodra Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 374-445 (88.6 - 105.4%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Protean Goodra Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Stunfisk: 252-299 (59.7 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Mega Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Stunfisk: 218-257 (51.6 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Torterra Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 282-332 (66.8 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Zoroark Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Stunfisk: 126-148 (29.8 - 35%) -- 19.9% chance to 3HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Cobalion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 160-188 (37.9 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

0 Atk Gastrodon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 150-176 (35.5 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Thousand Arrows Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 283-335 (67 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Mega Absol Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 142-168 (33.6 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill Drill Run vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 344-408 (81.5 - 96.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Mega Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Stunfisk: 127-151 (30 - 35.7%) -- 32.6% chance to 3HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Stunfisk: 224-264 (53 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Stunfisk: 346-408 (81.9 - 96.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Mega Sceptile Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Stunfisk: 288-338 (68.2 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Swanna Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Stunfisk: 195-229 (46.2 - 54.2%) -- 48.8% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Mega Banette Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 130-154 (30.8 - 36.4%) -- 59.8% chance to 3HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Cacturne Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 276-328 (65.4 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Technician Mega Abomasnow Frost Breath vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Stunfisk on a critical hit: 306-360 (72.5 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Technician Mega Abomasnow Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 306-360 (72.5 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I got a bit lazy, but suffice to say that Stunfisk performs great against any special attacker that doesn't hit it super-effectively with a STAB, and is almost never OHKOed. If it can hit something super-effectively with a STAB (and there's plenty of things it does), it has a solid chance of beating it one-on-one. It can use its slow Volt Switch to bring in Kyurem against the Grass-types that like to switch into it, and double-switch on predicted Ground-type switch-ins. Virizion really appreciates Stunfisk's ability to switch into Flying- and Fire-types, and sets up on several things that threaten Stunfisk.

tl;dr Stunfisk is poised to be a great team player on volt-turn teams as a slow, bulky pivot that doesn't lose momentum or get worn down.

 

[Maleovex]

Despite Stunfisk seeming to be the front runner, I'd like to draw attention to Poliwrath, I can see it fill a role no other Unaware user can fill (that I know of) in being able to remove the boosts that your ignoring. A set that I can see working (maybe, I'm bad at this stuff) is:

Poliwrath @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Impish Nature
- Recover
- Toxic/Circle Throw
- Haze
- Scald

Recover for Recovery, Toxic for residual damage or Circle Throw on a hazard stack team, Haze to remove boosts and Scald for dem Burns

 

[leng loi]

Quagsire learns Haze. It just doesn't run it because it's suboptimal compared to its other moves. I would much rather run Circle Throw over Haze because that removes stat boosts anyways by forcing the opponent out. The only thing you won't be Circle Throwing to get rid of boosts are Ingrain (lol) and set up ghosts, which don't really exist in OU (besides CM Mega Latios which beats you with STAB anyways).

 

[Akumeoy]

Despite Stunfisk seeming to be the front runner, I'd like to draw attention to Poliwrath, I can see it fill a role no other Unaware user can fill (that I know of) in being able to remove the boosts that your ignoring. A set that I can see working (maybe, I'm bad at this stuff) is:

Poliwrath @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Impish Nature
- Recover
- Toxic/Circle Throw
- Haze
- Scald

Recover for Recovery, Toxic for residual damage or Circle Throw on a hazard stack team, Haze to remove boosts and Scald for dem Burns

Specially defensive with an Impish nature is... interesting. Assuming you meant to do that, I'd like to know what that spread is for. Either way actually, you should be running Sassy or Relaxed because you'd rather have a lower Speed than weaker Scalds.

Circle Throw is, as FishInABox said, basically superior to Haze. Recover/Toxic/Circle Throw/Scald is your best bet. Encore is a possibility and I was in a rush when I posted this so I didn't have this sentence finished previously.

I can't really see Poliwrath being all that good here -- not because it wouldn't perform on its own, but simply because the defensive teams on which its loss of momentum would be acceptable aren't really all that good. It can't handle powerful wallbreakers like Moltres, Goodra, Mega Pidgeot, Mega Camerupt, Mega Sceptile, or Kyurem (Focus Blast 2HKOs with a little prior damage). It does counter Entei, though it hates burns.

Circle Throw is good, but not spammable -- you're likely to get hit by an attack while you phaze the opponent out to something Poliwrath can't handle, which you then have to switch out of while at low HP. And Poliwrath is not the kind of blanket check that can handle that.

I could maybe see a Bulk Up set work, or at least not be entirely ineffective.

 

[G-Luke]

Hopefullyy the Mono Theorymon tournament is still in discussion

 

[JothTheConqueror]

I don't want to sound like a noob but where can I submit a theorymon?

 

[Tressed]

I don't want to sound like a noob but where can I submit a theorymon?

You can talk to Recreant, Valmanway, Patolegend!, GnralLao, or myself with any ideas through pms or on our walls.

 

[Tressed]

Stunfisk + Volt Switch and Regenerator

The Immortal

It's so flat

 

[G-Luke]

So Tressed when can we discuss the current slate and how they do in the meta?

 

[Dragongroudon9]

Well I was recently introduced to this tier, and let me tell you it is fun. I have been building and facing some friends, and I have a couple threats I would like to talk about.

+

: Mega Pinsir and Cobalion form a very dangerous core that is hard to stop. With this core I tend to run an odd Focus Blast Cobalion set to weaken down Mega Steelix for Pinsir to have an easier time sweeping. This core does have a rough time dealing with faster offensive Pokemon, so solid pivots are recommended. But other than that, there isn't much that stops Pinsir from setting up an SD and winning once the steel types are gone. I would suggest packing EQ for electric types, and I run SR on Cobalion in the last slot so I have more room on my team for Pokemon that support this core.

+

: Moltres is so good in this metagame. Magic Guard is an absolute blessing. In this core, I use an LO, Hurricane, Fire Blast, U-Turn, and Roost set, with a max special attack and max speed spread. There are only a couple things that can beat this set, mainly special walls or Pokemon that resist both STABs. Pokemon that check Moltres include faster Pokemon. If you look at the Pokemon that switch into Moltres, you see things like Chansey, Tyranitar, Mega Altaria, etc. Mega Steelix beats all of these. Even if one of those Pokemon run coverage specifically for Steelix, you are still almost guaranteed to get enough damage off for Moltres to be able to come in and revenge kill. This core is going to want a solid water answer, probably two.

This metagame is a lot of fun, and has a ton of potential, especially with more Pokemon coming in all the time. I look forward to seeing strategies that people can come up with.

 

[Tressed]

Newest addition: Intimidate Crobat

The Immortal

In other news, we're looking at removing some of the more "over-the-top" submissions, as well as revamping some of the weaker ones. You can read more about that here.

 

[Dilasc]

I'm honestly surprised Simple Mega Audino isn't on the block. I submitted it and even I'm not happy with it simply because I feel it was submitted in an era when only 1 change was the limit.

Sorry if it's overstepping boundry to talk about it.

 

[Tressed]

I'm honestly surprised Simple Mega Audino isn't on the block. I submitted it and even I'm not happy with it simply because I feel it was submitted in an era when only 1 change was the limit.

Sorry if it's overstepping boundry to talk about it.

Discussing viability is fine, the rule only really applies only if you're sending your thoughts on the current slate.

I personally feel like Mega Audino has a ton of potential could most likely be very good if the meta was kinder to it. It's a hell of a lot bulkier than Clefable and having +2 SpDef means it'd be pretty easy to just wall out special attackers altogether. As it stands, though, it's really tough to build a team that suits it (ie. stall or balance), just because of how easy hazard stacking and wallbreaking is at the moment. There's just too many huge threats atm and it's kinda hard to judge exactly how good a Pokemon is when you can't build a team that it'd fit on without getting run over by a million things. Like Clefable is clearly not a bad Pokemon but I'd be a little apprehensive about running it in this meta, unless it was like Healing Wish Clef on an offensive team or something like that. In any case if it's still struggling to compete later on we'll look into tweaking it, but for now it's gonna stay put.

 

[Take Azelfie]

Will you include sample teams as well? Because I really want to use a team with MLix

 

[Lemon Ginger]

Will you include sample teams as well? Because I really want to use a team with MLix

How to use mega-steelix:
Step 1, play dragon
Step 2, trap fairy/steel
Step 3, sweep with dragon

 

[Akumeoy]

Will you include sample teams as well? Because I really want to use a team with MLix

Keep in mind that Arena Trap Mega Steelix is on the chopping block (as per this post) so I wouldn't spend too much time trying to put a Megalix team together.

 

[Tressed]

The results of the elimination slate have been decided, and the following Pokemon have been removed.

+ Prankster

+ Arena Trap

+ Desolate Land

+ Sheer Force

+ Multiscale

+ Belly Drum
The Immortal

We've also published an article on Theorymon, for those looking to get into the meta. You can read it here.

 

[Lemon Ginger]

Well... Milotic lose Multiscale...
Okay, I have idea for new buff for this pokemon:

New second type: Dragon
New Ability: Flare Boost
Losed Ability: Cute Charm

Okay, when combination of buffs is to strong - we can give only one buff.

She lose here weakness from Grass and Electric - what is good. She gain Weaknesses to Fairy and Dragon - I think fair trade.
Also new abillity give option for ofensive plays. That Special version of Guts beat a lot of Toxic counters, who expect another tank.

I choose this abillity, because I really raretly see this on game. That because only one natural user of Flare Boost is Drifblim.
This abillity isn't be very OP - Toxic can destroy strategy really easly, and for instantly burn we can't run Leftovers for Balancing burn damage.
But good usage of abillity can really help win the game.

And I think this pokemon actually looks like Dragon.
So...

How about this pokemon?

EDIT 1: Okay, I say this pokemon counter Toxic, but in the same post I say this Toxic can be counter here.
Let me explane what I mean here:
Milotic counter Toxic - when hold Flame Orb and have Protect/good swith.
Toxic counter Milotic - when Milotic didn't have Flame Orb.

EDIT 2: Writing on tablet is so difficult... just I correct some words...

Please message your suggestions directly to the council. To discuss submissions, head to the OU theorymon thread in the OU forum. This OM thread is specifically for discussion of the meta involving all the accepted submissions.

 

[SpiderKoloPL]

Please message your suggestions directly to the council. To discuss submissions, head to the OU theorymon thread in the OU forum. This OM thread is specifically for discussion of the meta involving all the accepted submissions.

Ups!
I'm sorry. I copy this post into right forum.
D:

After all I just delete this post.

 

[Octazooka M]

sand rush mega chomp is a good ideia and op...

 

[G-Luke]

sand rush mega chomp is a good ideia and op...

As stated above, submit your ideas to one of the council members. Recreant and Tressed are two examples. Besides, that went through and was considered broken.

 

[Tyke]

I'm a bit confused; for mega-latias and mega-banette does the new typing apply to their non-mega forms as well?

 

[Akumeoy]

I'm a bit confused; for mega-latias and mega-banette does the new typing apply to their non-mega forms as well?

No.