The fact that Stunky is such a good partner for Pokemon like Timburr because it can trap those Mons and beat Fairies helps boost its viability in my opinion.
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Resource LC Viability Rankings
- Thread starter Corporal Levi
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Stunky is a good solid choice for a support mon, but that's why it's B tier. It has a great niche, and good support options with defog, taunt, and memento but it finds its place partnering up kinda niche sweepers. It's 4mss means it can often be deadweight in battles, infact lots of battles it doesn't end up doing a lot. It's one of the best at its role, but its role really isn't that important to most teams, and it's definitely on par on usefulness with the rest of Mid B
Stunky finds its place on HO more than anything. The ability to trap Abra and Goth, while still providing Memento support is phenomenal. It's amazing on the likes of Zigzagoon teams. A lot of people don't value it as they should, as it's got a pretty handy set of A-list mons that it checks really, really well. That said, Stunky doesn't do much outside of that, and has to compete withthe likes of Pawniard. I say we should keep it at B rank.
I feel as if Scraggy should move up to B+. It's a pretty good Dragon Dance sweeper and has three good abilities and a decent typing. Problems are that it's walled by Fairy types, who can tank a Poison Jab after a boost, and Fletchling being common also doesn't help it, but I feel as if it's better than B rank and should go up to B+. Edit I asyo think Omanyte could use a rise. Its Shell Smash set is fucking potent, especially with 90 special attack. Omanyte has just tn he right coverage to hit everything except forFerrosee hard.Omanyte can also make use of its solid bulk in a utility set, as it has access to every hazard except for Sticky Web. While Omanyte hs trouble with the common Fighting andass types running around, I think it deserves a rise to A.
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Damn this thread is sorta dead. Also,any thoughts about a potential Corphish rise? I'm really starting to like how it can just steamroll through weakened teams with Choice Band aqua jet, and it has Crabhammer to crush even some bulky mons like Lickitung. Definetly a cool mon and imo deserving of a rise.
I also support Skitty to D. Having boosting moves such as Calm Mind, Cosmic Power, and Work up, and forcing status moves to be 50% accurate, specifically Taunt, with Wonder Skin, is a great addition. It also has Fake Out, dealing a little damage.
Hey can we bump Lickitung up to B or B+? Its kinda cool, I know Dracoyoshi8 has used it as a Torchic reciever and thats really cool, I've used it as a Wishpasser, Cleric, Abra check, etc. Its actually p cool to use and can fit on most teams that want an Abra check but also want a cleric. its got a good movepool as well and really want sot win matches so I think bumping it up to B might give it the spotlight for a bit and ppl might use it more
Unfortunately, while licki might have great bulk it has very bad offensive presence which causes many problems for it, B- is a much more fitting spot.
+2 236 Atk Lickitung Power Whip vs. 76 HP / 0 Def Archen: 23-28 (100 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 236 Atk Lickitung Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 76 HP / 0 Def Archen: 19-23 (82.6 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+2 236 Atk Lickitung Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Pawniard: 22-26 (104.7 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
it has strong coverage, enough to KO tons of threats after a bit of chip damage, can fit as a quickpass receiver, can fit as a Sticky Web abuser, etc. Even uninvested, it still has awesome bulk, and even if you don't want to go full offensive (although Offensive gets awesome coverage moves, such as Earthquake, Knock Off, Power Whip, Return, Fire Punch, Zen Headbutt, Thunderpunch, Ice Punch, Rock Tomb, Iron Tail, Aqua Tail) it can run tons of support options, such as Heal Bell, Wish, Knock Off, Toxic, Disable, Body Slam paras, and I've even toyed with a Counter set to lure in Pawniard, Timburr, Mienfoo, etc. Its bad offensive prescence really isn't a problem, it has enough offensive prescence to function as a good wincon, and just enough for a support mon. B+
While it does have many good options, I struggle to see it alongside things like corphish drifloon stunky and scraggy which have been proven effective in tournament and generally are proven. While I understand that the re ranking may do good to hype it, there is simply not enough to warrant replacing.
lol it can go offensive or it can go support / defensive, what other options do you want? it has a thorough movepool that can beat 90% of the meta with the correct moveset, access to wish + heal bell, the bulk to back it up, and the option to fit on almost any team. Its not as bulky or as strong as Porygon, probably the only thing it can be compared to, but it has access to wish+heal bell to set it apart, freeing up a slot on stall teams that usually require Spritzee+Porygon to check things. It has the bulk to pivot into a shitton of things, and is flexible enough to act as a glue to almost any threat. Swords Dance+Zen lure in Mienfoo / Timburr, SD+ EQ lure and beat Pawniard, Rock Tomb Fletch, Heal bell+Wish on stall teams / bulky, Fire Punch Ferro, Body Slam spamming, Return for power, Power Whip for coverage, Iron Tai for Archen, etc etc. I fail to see the issue of how it compares to one dimensional mons like Stunky and Corphish to the extent that you can't see it being effective. 25 / 14 / 14 bulk invested is actually really bulky, and while not as strong as common wallbreakers like Carvanha or Corphish, it has enough bulk and offensive prescence to be useful.
I'm not saying its ineffective, for all I know it could be deserving of S. I'm saying that, recently, it's gotten no tournament exposure and it's just not proven yet. You say it can do all these things, but there are just no serious tournament replays of it actually doing them. I would rather not bump a pokemon that I virtually never see in battle to B+ on text alone.
Corphish isn't even "one dimensional" since it can Eviolite with Swords Dance, Eviolite with Dragon Dance, or Choice Band + Switcheroo. Corphish is a crazy good wallbreaker (with priority and a good STAB!) and has decent bulk. Stunky can also go defensive with eviolite or full out offense with life orb and a faster EV spread.
"Offensive" Lickitung sets wouldn't even be good because it's slow as shit (even slower than Timburr) and would rely completely on quickpass to get a speed boost. The support set is only given two free moveslots since it NEEDS wish and protect (and has to rely exclusively on its own wishes for recovery) and then wants to fit Body Slam/Knock Off/Heal Bell/Earthquake (or other coverage move) into the last two slots. It also doesn't have fantastic defensive typing, with zero resists, one pretty uncommon immunity in Ghost, and a common weakness in fighting. It has only OK abilities, with Cloud Nine stopping weather effects (altho I don't see why you'd use this over the next ability), Own Tempo blocking Taunt, but with Oblivious being pretty much useless. It looks great on paper with it's high stats, and I love it, so it pains me to say that Lickitung just isn't on the same level as stuff in B+ or B like Corphish and Stunky, so I'm supporting Lickitung to stay in B-.
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Lickitung is a true lord on full stall, as it is legitimately the bulkiest pokemon in the tier. What holds it back is that in order to go offensive, which it can certainly do, it must forgo its sheer defensive utility. Personally, I'd advocate a rise to B but that is based solely on its massive defensive presence. It's probably the best Wish passer in the tier too, as it can wish on the obvious fighting switch in and then swooce right on out.
I've been playing more with Lickitung, and while it's certainly not the wall of champions, it's absolutely more effective than it was when it initially was put in B- (which iirc was back during the KrowTite era, and Meditite destroyed it). While its old weaknesses are certainly still present, I disagree with some of the above mon comparisons. Lickitung is best compared to Spritzee instead of Porygon, despite the different typings. Both are somewhat lackluster offensively, rely on WishTect for recovery, have virtually identical abilities, can go a boosting route, and can provide good cleric support with Wish and Heal Bell/Aromatheraphy. The big difference is that Spritzee has a much better typing, while Lickitung has notably better bulk.
Lickitung does, however, provide very good team support and has absurd defensive stats. Knock Off support is very good, and Body Slam is semi-reliable paralysis (considering that it's like scald) that can make switch-ins risky as long as their name isn't Timburr.
Overall, it's got a very negative stigma around it from earlier eras. It's not fantastic, and most of the time I'd rather use Munchlax or Spritzee as a dedicated wall, but the role it does fulfill isn't exactly outclassed. It's worthy of B as a support mon.
Also the person who wrote the current spread on the dex for Lickitung should be taken out back and shot. Like holy fuck. To put it kindly, run +Def and not +SpDef. Please. The justification given for running 236+ SpD is for LO Gastly and LO Abra. Here's some calcs to explain why you should run 196 HP / 76+ Def / 236 SpD.
As for Skitty, it's really bad on Baton Pass. After running some full BP teams with it, and feeling generally unclean, Skitty was never useful. As discussed to death in the "suspect" thread, the issue for BP isn't status but opposing boosters, making Wonder Skin pretty much useless. Being weak to fighting is also Not a Good Thing. I'd rather use so many other things. Don't put it in D.
Lickitung does, however, provide very good team support and has absurd defensive stats. Knock Off support is very good, and Body Slam is semi-reliable paralysis (considering that it's like scald) that can make switch-ins risky as long as their name isn't Timburr.
Overall, it's got a very negative stigma around it from earlier eras. It's not fantastic, and most of the time I'd rather use Munchlax or Spritzee as a dedicated wall, but the role it does fulfill isn't exactly outclassed. It's worthy of B as a support mon.
Also the person who wrote the current spread on the dex for Lickitung should be taken out back and shot. Like holy fuck. To put it kindly, run +Def and not +SpDef. Please. The justification given for running 236+ SpD is for LO Gastly and LO Abra. Here's some calcs to explain why you should run 196 HP / 76+ Def / 236 SpD.
200 SpA Life Orb Gastly Sludge Bomb vs. 196 HP / 236+ SpD Eviolite Lickitung: 9-13 (32.1 - 46.4%) -- 11.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
200 SpA Life Orb Gastly Sludge Bomb vs. 196 HP / 236 SpD Eviolite Lickitung: 9-13 (32.1 - 46.4%) -- 11.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
240 SpA Life Orb Abra Psychic vs. 196 HP / 236+ SpD Eviolite Lickitung: 9-13 (32.1 - 46.4%) -- 11.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
240 SpA Life Orb Abra Psychic vs. 196 HP / 236 SpD Eviolite Lickitung: 9-13 (32.1 - 46.4%) -- 11.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Here's some kind of important calcs.
0 Atk Mienfoo Drain Punch vs. 196 HP / 76 Def Eviolite Lickitung: 14-18 (50 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Mienfoo Drain Punch vs. 196 HP / 76+ Def Eviolite Lickitung: 12-14 (42.8 - 50%) -- 12.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
180 Atk Archen Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 196 HP / 76 Def Eviolite Lickitung: 12-15 (42.8 - 53.5%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
180 Atk Archen Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 196 HP / 76+ Def Eviolite Lickitung: 10-13 (35.7 - 46.4%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
196+ Atk Fletchling Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 196 HP / 76 Def Eviolite Lickitung: 9-12 (32.1 - 42.8%) -- 99.3% chance to 3HKO
196+ Atk Fletchling Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 196 HP / 76+ Def Eviolite Lickitung: 7-10 (25 - 35.7%) -- 15.4% chance to 3HKO
run impish or whatever you want just please not the dex spread k tnks
200 SpA Life Orb Gastly Sludge Bomb vs. 196 HP / 236 SpD Eviolite Lickitung: 9-13 (32.1 - 46.4%) -- 11.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
240 SpA Life Orb Abra Psychic vs. 196 HP / 236+ SpD Eviolite Lickitung: 9-13 (32.1 - 46.4%) -- 11.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
240 SpA Life Orb Abra Psychic vs. 196 HP / 236 SpD Eviolite Lickitung: 9-13 (32.1 - 46.4%) -- 11.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
good justification guyOfficial Dex said:
Here's some kind of important calcs.
0 Atk Mienfoo Drain Punch vs. 196 HP / 76 Def Eviolite Lickitung: 14-18 (50 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Mienfoo Drain Punch vs. 196 HP / 76+ Def Eviolite Lickitung: 12-14 (42.8 - 50%) -- 12.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
180 Atk Archen Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 196 HP / 76 Def Eviolite Lickitung: 12-15 (42.8 - 53.5%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
180 Atk Archen Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 196 HP / 76+ Def Eviolite Lickitung: 10-13 (35.7 - 46.4%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
196+ Atk Fletchling Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 196 HP / 76 Def Eviolite Lickitung: 9-12 (32.1 - 42.8%) -- 99.3% chance to 3HKO
196+ Atk Fletchling Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 196 HP / 76+ Def Eviolite Lickitung: 7-10 (25 - 35.7%) -- 15.4% chance to 3HKO
run impish or whatever you want just please not the dex spread k tnks
As for Skitty, it's really bad on Baton Pass. After running some full BP teams with it, and feeling generally unclean, Skitty was never useful. As discussed to death in the "suspect" thread, the issue for BP isn't status but opposing boosters, making Wonder Skin pretty much useless. Being weak to fighting is also Not a Good Thing. I'd rather use so many other things. Don't put it in D.
Time to clean up some of the lower ranks?
Shelmet C- -> D : This thing is supposed to wall fighters (I guess?) but can only wall fighters that don't boost. It's complete Timburr/Gunk Bait. It has Overcoat (pretty much it's only useful ability) to protect itself from Spore but it can just be switched out on into something that completely walls it. It only has Grass/Poison/Bug coverage and only has room for one or two. (Spikes/Recover/Bug Buzz/Filler). It can be used with Baton Pass which I guess is a decent niche, but all of the other full-Baton Pass 'mons (Mime Jr., Munna, Togepi, and apparently now Skitty?) are in D. It is piss weak and way too passive with only 40 special attack and little to no room for investment. Also, a Stealth Rock weakness isn't great for a "wall," and bug is just the best typing defensively (but certainly not the worst). It's also extremely slow. Drop this to D.
Karrablast C- -> C : This thing is one of four No Guard users in Little Cup, and the one that abuses it best (or as well as Machop does, since Honedge doesn't benefit at all and Golett isn't common). STAB Megahorn is now 100% accurate and comes off of it's great 75 Attack stat. It's 60 Speed is high enough for a scarf set. It can act as a trapper with Pursuit to catch Abra and Gastly off guard, and has other coverage options such as Poison Jab (for fairies), Drill Run (for Fires/Steels/Rocks), Knock Off (for Ghosts/utility), and even Aerial Ace since it struggles to hit fighters. 50/45/45 bulk is decent, and when paired with an Eviolite it can set up using Swords Dance. Although when using a scarf, it's pretty frail. It's rock weakness and only ok defensive typing hold it back, and bug isn't an amazing type in this meta, but it's very powerful and has a useful ability, a boosting move, and strong STAB/coverage options. I believe this would fit in C, if not higher.
Binacle C+ -> C : Why would anyone ever use this over other Smashers? The moves it wants to use aren't 100% accurate (Razor Shell, Stone Edge, Cross Chop) although it has decent coverage options (X-Scissor, Poison Jab). Omanyte and Shellder are much more physically bulky (but not as specially bulky) so Binacle is more prone to priority like Mach Punch. Even with Tough Claws, it still doesn't reach the same power level as Omanyte, and barely overlaps with Shellder (whose moves hit multiple times, allowing it to have the abiltiy to break sashes/subs, and has priority to pick off revenge killers).
+2 180+ Atk Tough Claws Binacle Razor Shell vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 15-18 (55.5 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 236+ Atk Shellder Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 15-20 (55.5 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 196+ SpA Omanyte Surf vs. 212 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Spritzee: 18-22 (66.6 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The only real reason to use it is the Choice Band + Switcheroo set which is sure to catch some off guard, and is reason enough for it to fit into C.
Wynaut C+ -> C (or lower): What is the point of this? Diglett and Gothita completely overshadow it, both having decent power and speed, while Wynaut relies on Counter & Mirror Coat (and Destiny Bond sometimes) to do ANYTHING, and is decimated by knock off since it's weak to it and usually runs berry juice. It can't do a thing without the opponent attacking, besides Encore (which causes mindgames but isn't great). It's also very slow so the user always has to use mindgames/good predictions to correctly get an Encore off (since it can't outspeed and encore the boosting move next turn). This needs to move down.
Shelmet C- -> D : This thing is supposed to wall fighters (I guess?) but can only wall fighters that don't boost. It's complete Timburr/Gunk Bait. It has Overcoat (pretty much it's only useful ability) to protect itself from Spore but it can just be switched out on into something that completely walls it. It only has Grass/Poison/Bug coverage and only has room for one or two. (Spikes/Recover/Bug Buzz/Filler). It can be used with Baton Pass which I guess is a decent niche, but all of the other full-Baton Pass 'mons (Mime Jr., Munna, Togepi, and apparently now Skitty?) are in D. It is piss weak and way too passive with only 40 special attack and little to no room for investment. Also, a Stealth Rock weakness isn't great for a "wall," and bug is just the best typing defensively (but certainly not the worst). It's also extremely slow. Drop this to D.
Karrablast C- -> C : This thing is one of four No Guard users in Little Cup, and the one that abuses it best (or as well as Machop does, since Honedge doesn't benefit at all and Golett isn't common). STAB Megahorn is now 100% accurate and comes off of it's great 75 Attack stat. It's 60 Speed is high enough for a scarf set. It can act as a trapper with Pursuit to catch Abra and Gastly off guard, and has other coverage options such as Poison Jab (for fairies), Drill Run (for Fires/Steels/Rocks), Knock Off (for Ghosts/utility), and even Aerial Ace since it struggles to hit fighters. 50/45/45 bulk is decent, and when paired with an Eviolite it can set up using Swords Dance. Although when using a scarf, it's pretty frail. It's rock weakness and only ok defensive typing hold it back, and bug isn't an amazing type in this meta, but it's very powerful and has a useful ability, a boosting move, and strong STAB/coverage options. I believe this would fit in C, if not higher.
Binacle C+ -> C : Why would anyone ever use this over other Smashers? The moves it wants to use aren't 100% accurate (Razor Shell, Stone Edge, Cross Chop) although it has decent coverage options (X-Scissor, Poison Jab). Omanyte and Shellder are much more physically bulky (but not as specially bulky) so Binacle is more prone to priority like Mach Punch. Even with Tough Claws, it still doesn't reach the same power level as Omanyte, and barely overlaps with Shellder (whose moves hit multiple times, allowing it to have the abiltiy to break sashes/subs, and has priority to pick off revenge killers).
+2 180+ Atk Tough Claws Binacle Razor Shell vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 15-18 (55.5 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 236+ Atk Shellder Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 15-20 (55.5 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 196+ SpA Omanyte Surf vs. 212 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Spritzee: 18-22 (66.6 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The only real reason to use it is the Choice Band + Switcheroo set which is sure to catch some off guard, and is reason enough for it to fit into C.
Wynaut C+ -> C (or lower): What is the point of this? Diglett and Gothita completely overshadow it, both having decent power and speed, while Wynaut relies on Counter & Mirror Coat (and Destiny Bond sometimes) to do ANYTHING, and is decimated by knock off since it's weak to it and usually runs berry juice. It can't do a thing without the opponent attacking, besides Encore (which causes mindgames but isn't great). It's also very slow so the user always has to use mindgames/good predictions to correctly get an Encore off (since it can't outspeed and encore the boosting move next turn). This needs to move down.
Keep wynaut in C+, great niche on HO, can trap some pretty niche stuff while also providing setup opportunities.
Shelmet should stay in C-. Although its weaknesses are a liability, it's great defenses are excellent for its role as a spike setter. It has access to recovery, and a good niche in Infestation, which allows it to trap foes and set up layers on them. Although its a very niche Pokemon, you've undersold its qualities vastly.
changes:
surksit B- -> B
tyrunt C -> C+
Croagunk A -> A-
these are basically done, unless anyone objects
not moving Lickitung. Its bulky support set just struggles to find places on teams. It faces the same sort of problem has Lileep in that, yeah it walls a bunch of shit, but it spends the whole game doing nothing but switching in, then having to recover the damage. It is very prone to getting worn down by hazards, and if it gets knocked off its basically useless. Wish+Protect makes it set up bait for loads of shit as well. Does have a niche on full stall but other than that, it's not great. Good in theory, bad in practice.
As for a BP receiver, yeah it's bulky as fuck and has a good movepool, but am I seriously gonna bother having Lickitung just as a receiver, when I can put something else in which won't end up being deadweight?
tazz is correct. there's a reason why we don't see Lickitung in tournament play, besides on full stall.
As for cityfolk's noms -
shelmet: C- or D, I don't really care I'd probably keep it C- but it doesn't really matter
karrablast: if people want it in C, then that's fine i guess
binacle: I'd keep in C+, it has a niche on waterspam/smashspam and it's banderoo set is really cool.
wynaut: ass tazz said, it has a good niche in HO, in that it can switch into things easier than gothita and allow for set up. it can pivot in 2 or 3 times a match and encore which is really important on a HO team.
My nomination:
croagunk to B+. We dropped pancham because its niche is too small, I think Croagunk should go the same way. Yeah it's good and versatile, but we all know it lacks offensive presence sometimes, and gets worn down. It's cool as a smash check, but everyone would still rather use timburr. Since ORAS, pancham only gave it more competition as well.
I'd support tazz's nomination of Diglett to A+, and Gothita to A, read his post I guess
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/lc-viability-rankings.3496013/page-83#post-6285678
Snivy to A-. anti meta as fuck right now, the best offensive grass type. its eviolite set is where it shines imo, it can pivot in with ease and firing off knock offs+leaf storm, and lure stuff with random hidden powers. Most of its checks get worn down pretty quickly which is what makes it so good.
I also think Honedge should be in C+ and not C but don't really wanna bother arguing for it
surksit B- -> B
tyrunt C -> C+
Croagunk A -> A-
these are basically done, unless anyone objects
not moving Lickitung. Its bulky support set just struggles to find places on teams. It faces the same sort of problem has Lileep in that, yeah it walls a bunch of shit, but it spends the whole game doing nothing but switching in, then having to recover the damage. It is very prone to getting worn down by hazards, and if it gets knocked off its basically useless. Wish+Protect makes it set up bait for loads of shit as well. Does have a niche on full stall but other than that, it's not great. Good in theory, bad in practice.
As for a BP receiver, yeah it's bulky as fuck and has a good movepool, but am I seriously gonna bother having Lickitung just as a receiver, when I can put something else in which won't end up being deadweight?
tazz is correct. there's a reason why we don't see Lickitung in tournament play, besides on full stall.
As for cityfolk's noms -
shelmet: C- or D, I don't really care I'd probably keep it C- but it doesn't really matter
karrablast: if people want it in C, then that's fine i guess
binacle: I'd keep in C+, it has a niche on waterspam/smashspam and it's banderoo set is really cool.
wynaut: ass tazz said, it has a good niche in HO, in that it can switch into things easier than gothita and allow for set up. it can pivot in 2 or 3 times a match and encore which is really important on a HO team.
My nomination:
croagunk to B+. We dropped pancham because its niche is too small, I think Croagunk should go the same way. Yeah it's good and versatile, but we all know it lacks offensive presence sometimes, and gets worn down. It's cool as a smash check, but everyone would still rather use timburr. Since ORAS, pancham only gave it more competition as well.
I'd support tazz's nomination of Diglett to A+, and Gothita to A, read his post I guess
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/lc-viability-rankings.3496013/page-83#post-6285678
Snivy to A-. anti meta as fuck right now, the best offensive grass type. its eviolite set is where it shines imo, it can pivot in with ease and firing off knock offs+leaf storm, and lure stuff with random hidden powers. Most of its checks get worn down pretty quickly which is what makes it so good.
I also think Honedge should be in C+ and not C but don't really wanna bother arguing for it
I think Gothita should stay in A-, since it fails to OHKO some things even with its stab super effective moves even with rocks (236+ SpA Gothita Psychic vs. 124 HP / 160 SpD Eviolite Foongus: 14-20 (56 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock) and is pretty frail with decent stats of 45/50/65 but the inability to run evio since it needs scarf or specs.
Diglett I'm not that sure about but I do think it's lack of bulk and inability to switch into almost anything except a predicted/choice locked electric move hurts it. However I never use it so I can't really give a great opinion.
Agree with Snivy, it adds so much support with Glare/Knock Off and hits hard with Leaf Storm, and can p much choose its counters since it can select whatever Hidden Power Type it wants (Rock, Fire, Fighting).
Honedge I agree with, it can use non-overheat fletch as set-up bait, walls Shellder (unless Razor Shell, which isn't a good set), most walls (Spritzee, Porygon, Foongus if it's already used spore) can barely touch it, amazing abra + gastly check and even has the option of running pursuit, STAB priority, .....
This mon is pretty underrated IMO and I would support a rise.
Diglett I'm not that sure about but I do think it's lack of bulk and inability to switch into almost anything except a predicted/choice locked electric move hurts it. However I never use it so I can't really give a great opinion.
Agree with Snivy, it adds so much support with Glare/Knock Off and hits hard with Leaf Storm, and can p much choose its counters since it can select whatever Hidden Power Type it wants (Rock, Fire, Fighting).
Honedge I agree with, it can use non-overheat fletch as set-up bait, walls Shellder (unless Razor Shell, which isn't a good set), most walls (Spritzee, Porygon, Foongus if it's already used spore) can barely touch it, amazing abra + gastly check and even has the option of running pursuit, STAB priority, .....
This mon is pretty underrated IMO and I would support a rise.
My thoughts if anyone cares, which I doubt because I am a nerd.
I agree with Croagunk's drop to B+, it just isn't very effective in this metagame. It had a great niche in being a Fighting check as well as checking Smashers, whilst dealing with Fairies. Honestly, now, Croagunk is a decent Fighting-Check at best, and Timburr far exceeds its capabilities in checking Smashers. Pancham provides it more competition because it has Gunk Shot to nail Fairies in a similar way.
Diglett deserves A+ in my opinion. Tazz mentioned every single reason.
Gothita just seems to always under-perform for me. It lacks in Power, its lackluster speed forces it to run Choice Scarf. This is just my experience with it.
Snivy needs A-, like if you do not give it A-, then you would do it disparagement.
I agree with Croagunk's drop to B+, it just isn't very effective in this metagame. It had a great niche in being a Fighting check as well as checking Smashers, whilst dealing with Fairies. Honestly, now, Croagunk is a decent Fighting-Check at best, and Timburr far exceeds its capabilities in checking Smashers. Pancham provides it more competition because it has Gunk Shot to nail Fairies in a similar way.
Diglett deserves A+ in my opinion. Tazz mentioned every single reason.
Gothita just seems to always under-perform for me. It lacks in Power, its lackluster speed forces it to run Choice Scarf. This is just my experience with it.
Snivy needs A-, like if you do not give it A-, then you would do it disparagement.
I fully support any and all rises given to Snivy. Its Eviolite set is just so good at coming in on common junk like Dribur, Chou, etc, and it's such a monstrous offensive presence that it sometimes limits what the opponent can do other than sack a Mon.
I'll probably talk about the rest when I'm not on mobile
I'll probably talk about the rest when I'm not on mobile
I feel like Mankey and Skiddo should stay.
Skiddo is the only user of Milk Drink, and gets a great combination of Bulk Up + Milk Drink allowing it to run sort of a sweeper set. It's Special Defense is high enough so that it can boost physically and not fear too many special attacks (66 HP/48 Def/57 SpD). It's pretty bulky although pure grass typing is sub-par. It has Sap Sipper which is great against Snivy and can use it as set up bait (236+ SpA Snivy Hidden Power Fire vs. 228 HP / 220+ SpD Eviolite Skiddo: 8-10 (30.7 - 38.4%) -- 17.6% chance to 3HKO). It also has a plethora of coverage, with options such as Wild Charge, Brick Break, Rock Slide, and Zen Headbutt. It also has access to Leaf Blade and Horn Leech, which are both very uncommon in LC.
Mankey is the only fighting type that makes use of Close Combat (Machop has Dynamicpunch, Makuhita is shit). It's pretty fast at 70 speed and very powerful at 70 attack. It has great coverage options in U-turn, Gunk Shot, Earthquake, Rock Slide, Seed Bomb, and the Elemental Punches. However, it lacks Knock Off (but has Night Slash). It also has Encore and Taunt if you're into that. It has access to two good abilities in Vital Spirit and Defiant.
Mankey and Skiddo stay in D.
Skiddo is the only user of Milk Drink, and gets a great combination of Bulk Up + Milk Drink allowing it to run sort of a sweeper set. It's Special Defense is high enough so that it can boost physically and not fear too many special attacks (66 HP/48 Def/57 SpD). It's pretty bulky although pure grass typing is sub-par. It has Sap Sipper which is great against Snivy and can use it as set up bait (236+ SpA Snivy Hidden Power Fire vs. 228 HP / 220+ SpD Eviolite Skiddo: 8-10 (30.7 - 38.4%) -- 17.6% chance to 3HKO). It also has a plethora of coverage, with options such as Wild Charge, Brick Break, Rock Slide, and Zen Headbutt. It also has access to Leaf Blade and Horn Leech, which are both very uncommon in LC.
Mankey is the only fighting type that makes use of Close Combat (Machop has Dynamicpunch, Makuhita is shit). It's pretty fast at 70 speed and very powerful at 70 attack. It has great coverage options in U-turn, Gunk Shot, Earthquake, Rock Slide, Seed Bomb, and the Elemental Punches. However, it lacks Knock Off (but has Night Slash). It also has Encore and Taunt if you're into that. It has access to two good abilities in Vital Spirit and Defiant.
Mankey and Skiddo stay in D.
- Status