Resource XY NU Viability Ranking

[jake]

Hi! It would be an enormous pitfall of my time for me to address every single argument in this thread like I have been, since I've missed about a week's worth of discussion without an update. Here are the changes I found suitable for now, listed alphabetically:

Audino from B to B+
Camerupt from D to C
Delibird from unranked to D
Dragalge from B+ to A-
Golurk from C to B
Granbull from B to B+
Ludicolo from B to B+
Malamar from C- to C
Marowak from D to C
Mesprit from B- to B+
Miltank from D to C-
Mr. Mime from C to B-
Quilladin from C- to B- 
Rotom-S from B- to B
Simipour from C to C+
Steelix from C to B-
Swoobat from unranked to C- 
Tangela from unranked to B
Uxie from B to B+
Vileplume from A to A+
Volbeat from D to C-

Magneton and Fletchinder removed

These will be implemented now. Something needs to fill Sigilyph's shoes in S Rank, we need to decide where Electivire and Slurpuff go, and we need to shift around some Pokemon that have changed in viability with the loss of Magneton and Fletchinder.

If your argument was not represented here and you feel it is still pertinent in our changed metagame (meaning: +Electivire, +Slurpuff, -Sigilyph, -Magneton, -Fletchinder), I will give you a ONE-TIME offer to quote your post and repost your argument, giving additional details when/wherever necessary.

Additionally, we might have a system implemented later that rewards good, quality posting in this thread and others. Stay tuned!

 

[jake]

Rankings updated. Also, let's try to focus discussion on the upper rankings, for now. We are very bottom-heavy (which I admit is mostly my fault; I opted to put Pokemon lower rather than higher in most questionable cases) and as such we have some issues with the upper rankings. I will be more easily swayed to move Pokemon up rather than down as a result.

 

[Ares]

Stunfisk to C+: Stunfisk is a very good wall that can reliably set up rocks. It stops various flying types and electric types. Some major ones are Fletchinder, Magneton, Swellow, Klinklang, Raichu. And can take on other pokes reasonably well if at full health like: Pyroar, Lanturn, rotom-fan, Archeops. And you are very likely to get something paralyzed while using fisk, from the static ability to the 30% from discharge. After paralyzing major threats it makes them very easy to revenge kill. The one thing people have a problem with is no reliable recovery. I however like to run rest on stunfisk, and in combination with a heal beller/aromatherapy user (which i like to have on teams anyways) it makes it easy to rest switch out and heal bell later on. The set I've been using:
Stunfisk @ Leftovers
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 HP / 88 SDef / 168 Def
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Discharge
- Earth Power
- Rest
I have found this to be very good at taking hits on both sides and either paralyzing something or setting up rocks.

I would still like to bring up Stunfisk for moving up, even though two threats it countered have been removed, magneton and fletch. Now with E-vire in the tier it can be a pretty decent counter, coming in on the electric move and the forcing E-vire out with the threat of an earth power. If given support of a heal beller/aromatherapy user, which most teams use anyways, Stunfisk can be a good addition to most teams.

 

[Peef Rimgar]

Also, if anything in the tier needs to go up to S-Rank right now, it's motherfucking Shiftry.

Shiftry is by far the most threatening offensive threat in the tier. On it's own, it forces the fair majority of successful NU teams into (Hyper) Offense. It has the most powerful Knock Off in NU (iirc) and a great Revenge Killing STAB in Sucker Punch. It also has great boosting options in SD and Nasty Plot, allowing it to be very difficult to check due to versatility. Between it's force of centralization of the metagame and versatility, I'd boost Shiftry to S

This got overshadowed by the earlier Feraligatr argument. I feel like the points stand even with the recent tier shift.

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

I personally don't get why Zebstrika is in D rank. It's one of the few good Electric-types in the tier, competing only with Raichu, Electabuzz and the Rotom-forms (Lanturn and Stunfisk are more tanks really so I don't count them). What does it have over them? First of all, speed. Base 116 is enough to outspeed the entire tier barring Swellow, Sceptile and Accelgor, allowing it to threaten out stuff like Archeops without having to carry a Scarf. It's also great at keeping momentum with Volt Switch to keep offensive teams at bay. Secondly, it has better coverage thanks to Overheat. It can easily knock out things like Vileplume, Cryogonal or even Shiftry, as it has enough bulk to tank a Sucker Punch. It also checks SD Feraligatr with Life Orb Thunderbolt, as Aqua Jet never knocks you out at +2 while you OHKO back. HP Grass rounds off the coverage letting it 2HKO any Seismitoad/Rhydon switchins. It can also choose from two great abilities in Sap Sipper and Lightningrod, what more can you ask for?

And honestly, not much likes to take a Volt Switch from Zebstrika, and the pokes that do are so easy to bait in with HP Grass. Anything that you can't beat still takes a lot of damage regardless before you bring in the right counter because of that super fast Volt Switch. There's almost little reason not to use this thing now Magneton is gone. I say B+ rank does it the justice it deserves.

 

[jake]

I would still like to bring up Stunfisk for moving up, even though two threats it countered have been removed, magneton and fletch. Now with E-vire in the tier it can be a pretty decent counter, coming in on the electric move and the forcing E-vire out with the threat of an earth power. If given support of a heal beller/aromatherapy user, which most teams use anyways, Stunfisk can be a good addition to most teams.

I'm okay with Stunfisk to C, but I'd like to see some more support for C+ (if you have some good replays showing its effectiveness aka please don't give me you beating meh players on ladder with it, that would work fine too).

This got overshadowed by the earlier Feraligatr argument. I feel like the points stand even with the recent tier shift.

I think this is definitely worth discussion (and as it stands, I would support Shiftry for S Rank). If nobody has anything to discuss with Shiftry, it will be moved to S by the next shift.

I personally don't get why Zebstrika is in D rank. It's one of the few good Electric-types in the tier, competing only with Raichu, Electabuzz and the Rotom-forms (Lanturn and Stunfisk are more tanks really so I don't count them). What does it have over them? First of all, speed. Base 116 is enough to outspeed the entire tier barring Swellow, Sceptile and Accelgor, allowing it to threaten out stuff like Archeops without having to carry a Scarf. It's also great at keeping momentum with Volt Switch to keep offensive teams at bay. Secondly, it has better coverage thanks to Overheat. It can easily knock out things like Vileplume, Cryogonal or even Shiftry, as it has enough bulk to tank a Sucker Punch. It also checks SD Feraligatr with Life Orb Thunderbolt, as Aqua Jet never knocks you out at +2 while you OHKO back. HP Grass rounds off the coverage letting it 2HKO any Seismitoad/Rhydon switchins. It can also choose from two great abilities in Sap Sipper and Lightningrod, what more can you ask for?

And honestly, not much likes to take a Volt Switch from Zebstrika, and the pokes that do are so easy to bait in with HP Grass. Anything that you can't beat still takes a lot of damage regardless before you bring in the right counter because of that super fast Volt Switch. There's almost little reason not to use this thing now Magneton is gone. I say B+ rank does it the justice it deserves.

Zebstrika has always been touchy because it is weak - even with good coverage, it's hard to make stuff happen with only 80 SpA and a poor physical movepool to work off of. I do think you've brought up some relevant points that I've ignored when putting up the initial list, like how LO Zebstrika is probably the way to go in this metagame (I mostly only kept Scarf and kinda Specs in mind when slotting it into D). However, I'm not comfortable raising it to B+ from D for a couple of reasons: 1. it's an enormous distance to cover in a single shift, and 2. I don't think it's anywhere near as good as the other Pokemon in B+ or even B.

You noted it has the bulk to tank various priority moves of some of the top tier Pokemon at 100%, though how you phrased it seriously oversells Zebstrika's bulk. For example, LO Feraligatr has a 50% chance to OHKO Zebstrika with +2 Aqua Jet after SR not counting crit chance, so at the very best you trade Pokemon and at the worst you lose yours and get bopped by Feraligatr. Of course, the more common item is Lum Berry, but the point is still there - you have to be literally at 100% or very near it to just check Feraligatr, so I don't think that's actually a merit of Zebstrika. Same goes for Shiftry's Sucker Punch: it has a 37.5% chance to OHKO Zebstrika after SR, which is a pretty common scenario (and again assuming Zebstrika is at full HP before it comes in to check Shiftry).

I think the ideal place for Zebstrika right now is C+, by Raichu who also has similar traits but different advantages.

 

[skies]

Just a bit of theory morning, but I feel like Slurpuff could honestly find a home in A Rank; I've yet to test it but this seems appropriate because it's threatening w/ Calm Mind and Belly Drum and it also checks Spiritomb very well, which is incredible. Overall, Fairy-typing, power, and Unburden would make it an A Rank threat. Will make a post w/ how I feel about it after testing after I test it lol.

 

[Peef Rimgar]

Just a bit of theory morning, but I feel like Slurpuff could honestly find a home in A Rank; I've yet to test it but this seems appropriate because it's threatening w/ Calm Mind and Belly Drum and it also checks Spiritomb very well, which is incredible. Overall, Fairy-typing, power, and Unburden would make it an A Rank threat. Will make a post w/ how I feel about it after testing after I test it lol.

What about theory afternoon? Theory night?

Anyways this does seem correct in theory. The lack of obnoxious walls that shit on Slurpuff such as Magneton, Registeel, and Bronzong are locked away in RU so I could see it being very effective in the meta. The only relevant hard counter I can see as of now is Dragalge, which shits on both variants.

 

[Jaguar360]

Speaking of Raichu, I think it can be moved up to B rank.
Raichu @ Life Orb
Ability: Lightningrod
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature
- Volt Switch
- Knock Off
- Grass Knot
- Focus Blast
This set makes Raichu extremely difficult to switch in to, with Lanturn and some other Volt Absorb/Lightningrod/Motor Drive Pokemon being the only safe switch-ins. Even they don't like taking a Knock Off and if one of them is not on the opposing team, Raichu is always gaining momentum. Raichu is one of four Pokemon with Volt Switch + Knock Off in NU, the other three being Eelektrik, Emolga and Pikachu. Raichu is good in the neutral game and as a lead, winning against common leads like Seismitoad and Xatu and being able to Volt Switch to other Pokemon that it can't handle right away. 110 speed puts it in a relatively good speed tier, but not quite as good as it once was when we had Durant and Virizion as well. It also speed ties with Archeops and Tauros, making matchups that would otherwise be easy for it more risky. The B rank description fits a lot more than the C rank one IMO because Raichu requires very little support and it can fill its niche in any match. I would even say that it is A- material, but I'll make a more modest proposal for now.

 

[jake]

hello

[18:52:13] sg|afk slaps zeb around a bit with a large trout
[18:52:18] <%sg|afk> you should wait
[18:52:19] <&zeb> ?
[18:52:23] <%sg|afk> before asking ppl to suggest ranks
[18:52:25] <%sg|afk> for evire and slurpuff
[18:52:29] <%sg|afk> ppl will bandwagon
[18:52:32] <%sg|afk> cos new toys

i agree with this and we will hold off on shoving evire and cotton into ranks for a bit. i will let you know when we will put them in! play with them and get a feel of where you think they belong. x)

 

[ryan]

Speaking of Raichu, I think it can be moved up to B rank.
Raichu @ Life Orb
Ability: Lightningrod
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature
- Volt Switch
- Knock Off
- Grass Knot
- Focus Blast
This set makes Raichu extremely difficult to switch in to, with Lanturn and some other Volt Absorb/Lightningrod/Motor Drive Pokemon being the only safe switch-ins. Even they don't like taking a Knock Off and if one of them is not on the opposing team, Raichu is always gaining momentum. Raichu is one of four Pokemon with Volt Switch + Knock Off in NU, the other three being Eelektrik, Emolga and Pikachu. Raichu is good in the neutral game and as a lead, winning against common leads like Seismitoad and Xatu and being able to Volt Switch to other Pokemon that it can't handle right away. 110 speed puts it in a relatively good speed tier, but not quite as good as it once was when we had Durant and Virizion as well. It also speed ties with Archeops and Tauros, making matchups that would otherwise be easy for it more risky. The B rank description fits a lot more than the C rank one IMO because Raichu requires very little support and it can fill its niche in any match. I would even say that it is A- material, but I'll make a more modest proposal for now.

This seems really outclassed by Electivire to me. I'd be more supportive if you posted this yesterday, but with Electivire now in the tier, I wouldn't bother with it anymore. Raichu is better against like hyper offensive teams because the extra Speed is more important, but Electivire is stronger with better bulk and coverage. C seems fine to me.

ALSO on S-rank, I honestly don't think anything deserves it. The S-rank description is:

Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.

I really don't think anything fits this description. We have a lot of huge threats in the metagame, including Feraligatr, Shiftry, Archeops, and so on, but they all have their appropriate counters which aren't difficult to fit onto a team. Offensive teams can handle literally everything in the metagame if you play well enough, and there is no one Pokemon that dismantles defensive teams anymore. The only Pokemon that really fits the versatility portion of this is Archeops, but even that gains and loses a sizeable amount of checks and counters depending on its set. I don't think any Pokemon is so strong that its flaw considerably outweigh their strengths. Slurpuff and Electivire are both the Pokemon that I think have the best shot at fulfilling this, but we obviously won't know that for sure until we give them some time in the metagame. If they don't fulfill it, however, I honestly think the best option is to leave S-rank empty.

 

[Ares]

I'm okay with Stunfisk to C, but I'd like to see some more support for C+ (if you have some good replays showing its effectiveness aka please don't give me you beating meh players on ladder with it, that would work fine too).

So didnt know this but i guess replays are only showed back two weeks. So i just pulled out 4 of the ones that showed what it can do before I had switched to my new team. Basically can live a hit and get up rocks, checks/counters electric/flying/steel threats, spreads paralyzation around very well between discharge and static, also I couldnt find any of being able to rest and heal bell with gurdurr unfortunately, and it can also live a lot of SE moves.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nubeta-132914287 vs AssassinRouge stopped klinklang in its tracks
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nubeta-135349231 vs Blaziken1337 tourney final, helped spread para to hariyama and got up rocks
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nubeta-133070900 vs DTC lived a leafstorm from a shitfry and got up rocks, which was important (included this one cause it lived a leafstorm)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nubeta-133899658 vs Tribalt helped stop a scarfed magneton at +2 (ik magneton just moved up, but just showing that with a little investment it can take hits)

Wish I had more replays to show. (if there is a way to go back farther than 2 weeks for replays saved, let me know and I'll post more)

 

[Jaguar360]

This seems really outclassed by Electivire to me. I'd be more supportive if you posted this yesterday, but with Electivire now in the tier, I wouldn't bother with it anymore. Raichu is better against like hyper offensive teams because the extra Speed is more important, but Electivire is stronger with better bulk and coverage. C seems fine to me.

I don't know about that. Knock Off and that extra 15 points of speed really distinguish it IMO. Tbh, Electrivire and Raichu play pretty differently as far as I know with Electrivire using its coverage and power to tear holes in teams and be better against stall, while Raichu does a better job at providing momentum, picking off threats and punishing fast Pokemon like Basculin, Pyroar, Furfou, and Specs Typhlosion. Raichu can also beat Ground types more easily, while Electrivire can punish Electric and Grass types with EQ and Flamethrower/Ice Punch respectively. Electrivire, however, can beat a +2 Feraligatr one on one, but Raichu's not supposed to be doing that anyway. Raichu has a distinguishable enough niche for other Electric types to be B rank.

 

[Gr3gory]

I am liking to nominate Sceptile to A+. His high speed and OK offensive power makes him a devastating sweeper. He can go physical with his vast movepool, special with his base 105 Special Attack, or mixed with both, + Life Orb. He had a movepool that can be unpredictable. And with Unburden activated, his speed in NU, I'm pretty sure, is 2nd to none. For newer players, this can help with creative sets.

 

[Punchshroom]

Anyways this does seem correct in theory. The lack of obnoxious walls that shit on Slurpuff such as Magneton, Registeel, and Bronzong are locked away in RU so I could see it being very effective in the meta. The only relevant hard counter I can see as of now is Dragalge, which shits on both variants.

Dragalge gets fucked sideways by Belly Drum, and without Specs it has a very real chance to lose to Calm Mind Sitrus + Psychic Slurpuff one on one.

The best stops I can think of to Slurpuff are Roar Bastiodon and Thunder Wave Probopass, which can utterly blow its chances to sweep, Bastiodon can even use Toxic to screw over Cotton Guard variants. Klingklang may also try its hand at checking Slurpuff by boosting alongside it with Shift Gear and OHKOing with Gear Grind (nabs Substitute Pluff too), though it probably succumbs to a +1 Flamethrower; thankfully CM variants do not activate Unburden as easily as BD variants (discounting all the Knock Off flying about in the tier).

I am liking to nominate Sceptile to A+. His high speed and OK offensive power makes him a devastating sweeper. He can go physical with his vast movepool, special with his base 105 Special Attack, or mixed with both, + Life Orb. He had a movepool that can be unpredictable. And with Unburden activated, his speed in NU, I'm pretty sure, is 2nd to none. For newer players, this can help with creative sets.

Sceptile cannot make use of Unburden effectively; it has a hard time activating it efficiently in the first place, and even then is too easily forced out (I mean it's not like Sceptile ever needed Unburden). Its stronger Special Attack cannot be boosted at will (unless you count Overgrow which requires weakening yourself), and its physical attack suffers from weaker initial damage, increasing its need to boost with Swords Dance. Sceptile also cannot defend itself effectively from priority, which is an issue to its fraility. These flaws, imo, are enough to hold it in A.

 

[Mijzelffan]

ALSO on S-rank, I honestly don't think anything deserves it. The S-rank description is:

I really don't think anything fits this description. We have a lot of huge threats in the metagame, including Feraligatr, Shiftry, Archeops, and so on, but they all have their appropriate counters which aren't difficult to fit onto a team. Offensive teams can handle literally everything in the metagame if you play well enough, and there is no one Pokemon that dismantles defensive teams anymore. The only Pokemon that really fits the versatility portion of this is Archeops, but even that gains and loses a sizeable amount of checks and counters depending on its set. I don't think any Pokemon is so strong that its flaw considerably outweigh their strengths. Slurpuff and Electivire are both the Pokemon that I think have the best shot at fulfilling this, but we obviously won't know that for sure until we give them some time in the metagame. If they don't fulfill it, however, I honestly think the best option is to leave S-rank empty.

Ubers had the problem of nothing besides Xerneas being deemed for S-rank some time after XY were released and people arguing that even though some pokemon were incredibly good they didn't fit the description of the S-rank. So they just tweaked the description of S-rank to allow more pokémon to be in it. It now has four pokemon in it instead of one iirc. Might be a good idea for NU too, it seems weird to just leave the S-rank empty waiting for something more broken to drop from RU which will probably end up banned anyway.

 

[xzern]

I don't see Monferno anywhere on the list, so I'm going to nominate it for D rank because yolo.

Monferno @ Focus Sash
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 HP
- Fake Out/Filler
- Mach Punch
- Endeavor
- Stealth Rock

While not possessing any attacking presence in contrast to Combusken, this set functions well as an anti-lead/suicide lead/whatever. Similar to the lead Archeops set, this set relies on the combination of Endeavor and priority (Mach Punch) to kill stuff after setting up rocks.

 

[Lord Alphose]

Ubers had the problem of nothing besides Xerneas being deemed for S-rank some time after XY were released and people arguing that even though some pokemon were incredibly good they didn't fit the description of the S-rank. So they just tweaked the description of S-rank to allow more pokémon to be in it. It now has four pokemon in it instead of one iirc. Might be a good idea for NU too, it seems weird to just leave the S-rank empty waiting for something more broken to drop from RU which will probably end up banned anyway.

That was Ubers. It's a different world over there. It seems illogical to me that we must fabricate new standards of OP so that we can have Pokemon to gripe about. Is no one satisfied that the metagame is somewhat balanced at the moment?

Now for an actual thing to say. I'd like to see Scyther move to C Rank.

​

C Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective given the right support, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks.​

In my opinion, Scyther's weakness to Stealth Rock makes it much more susceptible to being worn down before the game has even begun. The description of the C-tier, specifically the line "crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy," describes Scyther perfectly. It can't switch in and out more than twice if Rocks are up. One switch-in leaves it at half health. So yeah. I vote it gets moved down.

/me steps off his soap box.

 

[Ares]

Gothorita for B or B+
Gothorita gets the unique ability shadow tag, and while frail normally its trapping ability is top notch. Its ability to take out pokemon that wall your sweeper is ridiculous, especially if you build around its trapping ability with volt switch, uturn, or baton pass. Once doing this you can go out into Gothorita to take out a threat/wall to your sweeper. Then its pretty much GG after you bring in your sweeper. This poke is way to powerful to be in just C. The best set to be using:
Gothorita @ Choice Specs
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Psychic
- Psyshock
- Energy Ball
- Hidden Power [Ground]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nubeta-137332539 TheCanadianWifier vs I'm Bi...Sharp
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nubeta-137332539 TheCanadianWifier vs Assassin Rogue
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nubeta-136411270 TheCanadianWifier vs Davon's Phone (Davon)

Relevant Calcs

252+ SpA Choice Specs Gothorita Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hariyama: 452-534 (91.8 - 108.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO or if no HP in Hariyama 252+ SpA Choice Specs Gothorita Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hariyama: 452-534 (105.3 - 124.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Gothorita Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Seismitoad: 568-672 (137.1 - 162.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Gothorita Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Probopass: 164-196 (50.6 - 60.4%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (can come in on rocks and lay a heavy hit)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Gothorita Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Vileplume: 366-432 (103.3 - 122%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Gothorita Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 326-386 (97.6 - 115.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Gothorita Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 262-310 (70 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Gothorita Energy Ball vs. 40 HP / 216+ SpD Lanturn: 200-236 (49.8 - 58.8%) -- 72.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery While this may not seem to be much, if your sweeper is Gatr then taking out lanturn is a priority

 

[xzern]

Nominating Metang for C Rank
Given the right support, Metang isnt as shitty as you would expect.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nubeta-137369910
It's able to be a tanky attacker, a priority revenge whatever attacker, and a SR lead all at the same time.
Also, with Slurpuff being extremely common atm, Metang is one of the best answers to it.
However, it doesnt really appreciate a Knock Off to the face.

hard body (Metang) @ Eviolite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Bullet Punch
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt

 

[Peef Rimgar]

I really don't think anything fits this description. We have a lot of huge threats in the metagame, including Feraligatr, Shiftry, Archeops, and so on, but they all have their appropriate counters which aren't difficult to fit onto a team. Offensive teams can handle literally everything in the metagame if you play well enough, and there is no one Pokemon that dismantles defensive teams anymore. The only Pokemon that really fits the versatility portion of this is Archeops, but even that gains and loses a sizeable amount of checks and counters depending on its set. I don't think any Pokemon is so strong that its flaw considerably outweigh their strengths. Slurpuff and Electivire are both the Pokemon that I think have the best shot at fulfilling this, but we obviously won't know that for sure until we give them some time in the metagame. If they don't fulfill it, however, I honestly think the best option is to leave S-rank empty.

I can't help but disagree with this. The definition of S-Rank seems to damn near define Shiftry to me, unless I'm missing something. Shiftry is an extremely versatile pokemon, between SD, Nasty Plot, Defog, Mixed LO, hell if you want you can go choiced with decent effect. His powerful Knock Off can pretty much stop any turns from being free turns for an opponent, as nothing enjoys losing it's item in this meta. It also pretty much mitigates any substantial flaws by being such useful utility.

 

[Pokedots]

Gothorita for B or B+
Gothorita gets the unique ability shadow tag, and while frail normally its trapping ability is top notch. Its ability to take out pokemon that wall your sweeper is ridiculous, especially if you build around its trapping ability with volt switch, uturn, or baton pass. Once doing this you can go out into Gothorita to take out a threat/wall to your sweeper. Then its pretty much GG after you bring in your sweeper. This poke is way to powerful to be in just C. The best set to be using:
Gothorita @ Choice Specs
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Psychic
- Psyshock
- Energy Ball
- Hidden Power [Ground]

Relevant Calcs

252+ SpA Choice Specs Gothorita Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hariyama: 452-534 (91.8 - 108.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO or if no HP in Hariyama 252+ SpA Choice Specs Gothorita Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hariyama: 452-534 (105.3 - 124.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Gothorita Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Seismitoad: 568-672 (137.1 - 162.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Gothorita Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Probopass: 164-196 (50.6 - 60.4%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (can come in on rocks and lay a heavy hit)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Gothorita Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Vileplume: 366-432 (103.3 - 122%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Gothorita Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 326-386 (97.6 - 115.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Gothorita Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 262-310 (70 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I fully agree on Gothorita moving up, though I think B- would be more suitable due to its lacking offenses and defenses (without Eviolite). However, thanks to the drops, this little rascal gained an extremely frightening offensive sweeper that works extremely well with it: Cottonballmon Slurpuff. This fast demon has blistering speed (after losing its Sitrus) and amazing set up moves in Belly Drum and Calm Mind that let it rip through a sizable amount of the tier (at least on paper, I don't think we have enough experience to properly rank it). Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your point of view), it is checked or countered by the likes of Vileplume, Dragalge (only checks the CM set), Bastiodon, Probopass, among others. But what do all of these have in common? They are wrecked by Gothorita! It comfortably traps and beats all of this (with Specs), making it much easier for Slurpuff to rampage through teams. The existence of Slurpuff allows Gothorita to support teams with it immensely more. Depending on the viability (I would guess around A+) and significance of Slurpuff, the viability of Gothorita might greatly increase. With Gothorita, checking Slurpuff will be much harder. So, in conclusion, Gothorita to B-/B
Counter argument: Gothorita is checked or countered by extremely common pokemon such as Shiftry, Spiritomb, and Feraligatr.
Counter-counter(?) argument: These are not pokemon that Gothorita needs to trap and kill, as its best teamamates (Slurpuff and Klingklang) handle them easily, so there's no point to having Gothorita out against these guys.
P.S. Oh, and bye Magneton. I won't miss you. My stall team seems all the more viable now.

 

[ryan]

I can't help but disagree with this. The definition of S-Rank seems to damn near define Shiftry to me, unless I'm missing something. Shiftry is an extremely versatile pokemon, between SD, Nasty Plot, Defog, Mixed LO, hell if you want you can go choiced with decent effect. His powerful Knock Off can pretty much stop any turns from being free turns for an opponent, as nothing enjoys losing it's item in this meta. It also pretty much mitigates any substantial flaws by being such useful utility.

I think Shiftry is the -closest- to S-rank out of our currently ranked Pokemon. On paper, it sounds utterly terrifying, but I've never struggled with it much in practice. Nasty Plot is decent at best because you pretty much have to run Sucker Punch in order to make it worth running. Mixed is the standard Defog set (or at least should be, even if it isn't the most common on the ladder). SD is good, but any faster Dark-resists (think Fighting-types, Liepard, etc) keep it in check just fine. Defog is a great offensive support Pokemon, but nearly every team does fine against it. Stall teams can set up hazards again and can even keep up pressure against it because it is so frail, and offensive teams can keep up enough offensive pressure against it to keep it from getting a chance to Defog (or at least Defog and survive). Basically what I'm saying is that it has very little effect on teambuilding, at least for me personally, because as long as you are preparing for offensive threats in general, you should be well prepared for it as well. That's how I feel about pretty much the entire meta. I feel like you have a lot of liberty to experiment with new things because nothing is so influential that you have to go out of your way to prepare for it that often. Sure, occasionally you'll find that you're weak to a certain threat, but when that happens, you just adjust to cover for it and keep on going.

I can see how you could disagree with me though, so I don't plan to fight too hard to keep S-rank empty. That's just how I feel about it!

edit: also plz don't recommend choiced shiftry.

 

[xzern]

I can't help but disagree with this. The definition of S-Rank seems to damn near define Shiftry to me, unless I'm missing something. Shiftry is an extremely versatile pokemon, between SD, Nasty Plot, Defog, Mixed LO, hell if you want you can go choiced with decent effect. His powerful Knock Off can pretty much stop any turns from being free turns for an opponent, as nothing enjoys losing it's item in this meta. It also pretty much mitigates any substantial flaws by being such useful utility.

It may be versatile and whatnot, but it's very frail and can be dispatched of by quite a few pkmn.
Some examples:

Gurdurr @ Eviolite
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch

Most of the time is able to afford an Eviolite being knocked off because Gurdurr has decent bulk anyway.

Granbull @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Earthquake
- Heal Bell
- Thunder Wave

Intimidate makes Shiftry useless against Granbull unless Leaf Storm.

Slurpuff @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 200 Speed / 252 SAtk / 52 HP
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Draining Kiss
- Flamethrower
- Psychic

Knock Off that berry, activate Unburden. gg.

 

[Boltaway]

Nominating Pidgeot for C- rank.

Pidgeot @ Leftovers
Ability: Big Pecks
EVs: 252 Spd / 248 HP / 8 Atk
Jolly Nature
- Defog
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Roost

Pidgeot is sort of a weird mon to nominate in the first place because despite being first gen, it's consistently forgotten. It's for the most part outclassed, but got a nice toy this generation with base 101 speed (finally something to differentiate from Dodrio/Fearow/other bird!), which makes it one of the fastest Defoggers in the tier (the others are Archeops et al, who don't have the moveslot or bulk to really run it). Speaking of bulk, it's decent (83/75/70) and it gets recovery in the form of Roost. I decided to invest in HP rather than attack, but you could easily do the reverse, depending on your team build. U-Turn is a useful scouting move and something that Articuno lacks. It does have some issues, of course. The first is that it's weak to SR, but most of the Defoggers in NU fit that bill. The second is that it's bulk isn't going to give it the most longetivity. Finally, it's abilities and movepool are lacking although the only move you ever truly need is Defog. I think that in its role, it functions similarly to Mantine, swapping out massive special bulk for recovery and momentum.

And check out that nice haircut. Starapter's ugly ass mohawk ain't got shit on that.