Pokémon Terrakion

[Aerodactyl Legend]

And for the post above that, Gliscor can easily stall put Terrakion w. SubProtect and healing up from Stone Edge. On top of that, its shaky accuracy. HP Ice is guaranteed even after Gliscor tries to double Protect, on top of that you won't have to worry about Stone Edge missing. You pretty much covered what I would have to say for Landorus-T. It will tank anything Terrakion has (Intimidate as stated earlier) and can just OHKO with EQ. If they know you have HP Ice by then, you can force a switch and maybe you can predict something.

Gliscor's going to Protect on HP Ice anyways, so then it will always come down to prediction afterwards regardless. You are discarding little when running Swords Dance because he just needs some prior damage to die to Stone Edge, accuracy issues or not. As for Landorus, it takes 90% minimum on +1 Stone Edge, so he's not tanking. HP Ice doesn't even OHKO without Stealth Rock.

"you probably should build a better team"
Was referring to this statement.

He was obviously talking in general, to just anybody.

 

[Terrakion.]

Gliscor's going to Protect on HP Ice anyways, so then it will always come down to prediction afterwards regardless. You are discarding little when running Swords Dance because he just needs some prior damage to die to Stone Edge, accuracy issues or not. As for Landorus, it takes 90% minimum on +1 Stone Edge, so he's not tanking. HP Ice doesn't even OHKO without Stealth Rock.

What spread are you calculating?
+1 252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Landorus-T: 189-223 (49.6 - 58.5%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

What spread are you calculating?
+1 252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Landorus-T: 189-223 (49.6 - 58.5%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

I'm running off of just HP. Is the Def set the most used now?

*Edit*

Looked at the stats. No, it's not, for all ratings.


And I forgot about the Assault Vest too. If they stay in, they'll be able to take HP Ice and KO back.

If they don't stay in because they expect HP Ice and you try to predict the switch, what's the point of even running Work Up + HP Ice in the first place? Intimidate drops you to zero and you're countered or checked by their switch. You can at least end up at +1 with SD, meaning they can only check by outspeeding or using priority.

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

If it's a Swords Dance set, +1 Stone Edge and +2 Stone Edge deal more damage to Lando-T and Gliscor, respectively, than HP Ice coming from an uninvested Special Attack. Even invested, it will never OHKO a standard Lando-T or Gliscor.

252+ SpA Terrakion Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Landorus-T: 236-280 (61.7 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(236, 240, 240, 244, 248, 252, 252, 256, 260, 260, 264, 268, 268, 272, 276, 280)

252+ SpA Terrakion Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 248-296 (70 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
(248, 252, 256, 260, 260, 264, 268, 272, 272, 276, 280, 284, 284, 288, 292, 296)

I think you're better off having teammates that can deal with those two.

First off your calcs are wrong because you use a LO with that set and don't invest into SpA:

0 SpA Life Orb Terrakion Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Landorus-T: 208-250 (54.4 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Life Orb Terrakion Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 218-260 (61.5 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

Both are cleanly 2HKO'd even factoring in Gliscor Protecting for another turn of Poison Heal will be a garanteed 2HKO with SR and a likely one without.

Secondly your comparing apples and oranges as SD + a 2HKO with Stone Edge is 3 turns whereas HP Ice on the switch followed up by another HP Ice because you outspeed all variants except scarf lando-t (which will take more damage and lack leftovers so it's easily scouted) will always 2HKO except AV Lando-T which quite frankly is a terrible set.

It doesn't need to OHKO when the alternatives don't even 2HKO.

 

[Agent Gibbs]

I feel like LO SD and LO HP Ice are the vest sets this gen

I know you meant "best" here, but for some reason this gave me the urge to try out an Assault Vest Terrakion set with Sand support. Definitely a gimmick, but it's impressive the kind of hits it can take.

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Terrakion: 222-262 (68.7 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Terrakion in Sand: 195-229 (60.3 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Thundurus Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Terrakion in Sand: 124-148 (38.3 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Terrakion in Sand: 96-114 (29.7 - 35.2%) -- 16.6% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Terrakion in Sand: 221-265 (68.4 - 82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Terrakion in Sand: 260-308 (80.4 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Terrakion in Sand: 154-183 (47.6 - 56.6%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO

I find this hilarious.

 

[Stoo]

yeah i wasnt directing the better team comment at you specifically dude didnt mean to come across a dick, and sure hp ice could work if you really badly needed to lure glis/lando to sweep with char x or something, but you can pretty much put random hidden powers on anything to lure shit, and in any other situation i would rather have earthquake/swords dance/x-scissor on the scarf set. still works though

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

I think now that Mega Lucario is gone and there really isn't a fast Fighting type anymore (Who uses Regular Lucario), Terrakion should be used more. A set that I've been looking into and using a lot was a Work Up mixed set. +1 Stone Edge OHKOs (or 2HKO) most the threats from the post above (Azumarill, Mega Venusaur, etc.). I don't think I really have to explain +1 Close Combat. I've used Work Up for the reason being Hidden Power Ice. +1 4 SAtk Life Orb has a possibility of OHKOing Landorus-T and Gliscor. Only main problems I have encountered was Aegislash but when backed up, I think this set can wreck havoc.

Some Calculations:
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 382-450 (94.5 - 111.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (62.5% to OHKO without SR)

+1 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 265-313 (72.8 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(Showing Stone Edge 2HKO and that Venusaur cannot switch in)


+1 4 SpA Life Orb Terrakion Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Landorus-T: 312-369 (81.6 - 96.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (Showing Terrakion has a chance against Landorus-T as usually it never did before)

+1 4 SpA Life Orb Terrakion Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 328-390 (92.6 - 110.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
(Showing the OHKO-- 62.5% chance without SR)

I don't think losing earthquake is worth it tbh, Aegislash is more important to hit than Landorus-T and Gliscor anyway.

 

[Arca10]

First off your calcs are wrong because you use a LO with that set and don't invest into SpA:

0 SpA Life Orb Terrakion Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Landorus-T: 208-250 (54.4 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Life Orb Terrakion Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 218-260 (61.5 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

Both are cleanly 2HKO'd even factoring in Gliscor Protecting for another turn of Poison Heal will be a garanteed 2HKO with SR and a likely one without.

Secondly your comparing apples and oranges as SD + a 2HKO with Stone Edge is 3 turns whereas HP Ice on the switch followed up by another HP Ice because you outspeed all variants except scarf lando-t (which will take more damage and lack leftovers so it's easily scouted) will always 2HKO except AV Lando-T which quite frankly is a terrible set.

It doesn't need to OHKO when the alternatives don't even 2HKO.

I assume that you're human and can use and understand context, so try reading my post again. Because immediately before I pasted those calcs I wrote, "Even invested, it will never OHKO a standard Lando-T or Gliscor." The calculations thereafter were to support that statement. But you're right that a HP Ice Terrakion would beat Gliscor and Landorus-T (usually) where a standard SD wouldn't, if you predict the switch. But as you said:

I don't think losing earthquake is worth it tbh, Aegislash is more important to hit than Landorus-T and Gliscor anyway.

Besides that, you're banking that 2HKO on them not switching Gliscor/Lando out once they see your HP Ice and you fail to KO. You're right that it's worth considering if you don't need Earthquake coverage and have Landorus and Gliscor problems.

For what it's worth, with a LO set you get a decent chance to OHKO:
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 347-409 (90.8 - 107%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
(347, 351, 355, 359, 363, 368, 372, 376, 380, 383, 387, 391, 395, 399, 403, 409)

 

[Agent Gibbs]

It's not completely necessary to predict the switch with HP Ice since Terrakion has a solid chance to KO Landorus-T and Gliscor with Stone Edge followed by HP Ice after Stealth Rock damage, and that's assuming neither of them have taken any damage earlier in the match (which isn't always the case since both are frequent switch-ins to physical attackers). Also, the only reason anyone uses 252 HP / 252 Atk Adamant spreads on Landorus-T is because it's the recommended spread on Pokemon Showdown!. Most solid players run significantly more physical bulk on tank sets since that extra bulk is so important for beating things like Mega Pinsir, in which case Swords Dance versions fail to OHKO even after Stealth Rock damage.

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

I assume that you're human and can use and understand context, so try reading my post again. Because immediately before I pasted those calcs I wrote, "Even invested, it will never OHKO a standard Lando-T or Gliscor." The calculations thereafter were to support that statement. But you're right that a HP Ice Terrakion would beat Gliscor and Landorus-T (usually) where a standard SD wouldn't, if you predict the switch. But as you said:

Even if you dont predict correctly you got a chance of 2HKOing as Agent Gibbs said and you can still use HP Ice to 2HKO after they switch in (which would be similar to SDing on the switch and then 2HKOing with Stone Edge, except more reliable as HP Ice never misses).

Besides that, you're banking that 2HKO on them not switching Gliscor/Lando out once they see your HP Ice and you fail to KO. You're right that it's worth considering if you don't need Earthquake coverage and have Landorus and Gliscor problems.

The losing of Earthquake was referring specifically to the Work Up set, every other Terrakion set (save for the SR Lead and maybe Double Dance although I doubt that's viable this gen) should have Earthquake no matter what.

For what it's worth, with a LO set you get a decent chance to OHKO:
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 347-409 (90.8 - 107%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
(347, 351, 355, 359, 363, 368, 372, 376, 380, 383, 387, 391, 395, 399, 403, 409)

Yeah.. no one runs 0 defense Lando-T outside of Scarf sets.

 

[Arca10]

The losing of Earthquake was referring specifically to the Work Up set, every other Terrakion set (save for the SR Lead and maybe Double Dance although I doubt that's viable this gen) should have Earthquake no matter what.

So are you advocating using HP Ice instead of Close Combat or Stone Edge? I don't know what else you would replace on an SD set (which is what I've been talking about exclusively).

 

[InfinitySlayer]

This gen, Aegislash is a bigger threat than Gliscor and Landorus by far. As such, Earthquake is a must on LO sets. Plus Stone Edge still hits for reasonable damage against Gliscor and Lando, breaking the former's Sub with ease. Whereas not running SE leaves you at the mercy of Aegislash.

 

[azureleaf17]

I know you meant "best" here, but for some reason this gave me the urge to try out an Assault Vest Terrakion set with Sand support. Definitely a gimmick, but it's impressive the kind of hits it can take.

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Terrakion: 222-262 (68.7 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Terrakion in Sand: 195-229 (60.3 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Thundurus Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Terrakion in Sand: 124-148 (38.3 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Terrakion in Sand: 96-114 (29.7 - 35.2%) -- 16.6% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Terrakion in Sand: 221-265 (68.4 - 82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Terrakion in Sand: 260-308 (80.4 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Terrakion in Sand: 154-183 (47.6 - 56.6%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO

I find this hilarious.

I second this. I was using AV Terrakion as a lead to punch massive holes in things from the get-go, because most people expect the lead set with Stealth Rock and Focus Sash and try to counter the rocks going up with Taunt or a switch to a counter. Rock/Fighting/Ground coverage absolutely annihilates things to the point where it almost doesn't need a fourth move, and it takes a really, really strong hit to OHKO something that has passable defenses (91/90/90) to begin with, which is further beefed up with an AV. I've run Quick Attack, X-Scissor, Rock Slide, and Sacred Sword in the last slot, but it really doesn't need all that much beyond two STABs and EQ for coverage.

 

[Tyrant laharl]

I've been thinking, would a sub SD terrakion be a viable set with the proper support? All you need is aegislash out of the way and you can rip through everything with your STABS alone. Obviously, it needs aegislash gone, so pairing it with a char y would help alot in terms of type synergy and beating this sets biggest counter.

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

I also wanted to point out that Gliscor can't even stall on Swords Dance. A good player will simply SD again to +4 and you can have fun dealing with that.

I've been thinking, would a sub SD terrakion be a viable set with the proper support? All you need is aegislash out of the way and you can rip through everything with your STABS alone. Obviously, it needs aegislash gone, so pairing it with a char y would help alot in terms of type synergy and beating this sets biggest counter.

I'm not sure. The usual thought when seeing Terrakion is KO it as soon as possible. I doubt you could get more than one turn of setup to a point that you can still be behind a Sub at +2. I'd (personally) try Substitute alone first. There's also Taunt too I suppose.

 

[Agent Gibbs]

I've been thinking, would a sub SD terrakion be a viable set with the proper support? All you need is aegislash out of the way and you can rip through everything with your STABS alone. Obviously, it needs aegislash gone, so pairing it with a char y would help alot in terms of type synergy and beating this sets biggest counter.

It can be, but it's tough to pull off. I've tried SubSalac Terrakion before, and it's pretty good once it gets going. The main problem is just Aegislash and how unbelievably popular it is, especially on the top of the ladder. It's too bad you can't trap Aegislash due to the Ghost buffs in XY, because otherwise SubSalac Terrakion + Dugtrio/Magnezone might be a decent partnership.