Kyogre

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MMII

MMII

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Name: Kyogre / King of Ubers
Type: Water
Abilities: Drizzle
Base Stats: 100 / 100 / 90 / 150 / 140 / 90
Movepool: http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/kyogre/moves
Stats and movepool unconfirmed

General Description:
The Drizzle nerf doesn't erase Kyogre's luster, if anything he is now unrivaled as a Water-type attacker. The Choice Specs set will still be as absurdly powerful as ever and one of the top special attackers in the metagame. The Choice Scarf set won't have to worry about fighting any weather war and may not see many Groudon or Tyranitar to stop its Water Spout spam. (but who knows) The Specially Defensive set is still a great tank that is capable of checking most CM Arceus as well as Xerneas (although it'll need to stay healthy if Xerneas runs Thunder). Speaking of Specially Defensive, will it still run Roar or will it slide Toxic in someplace else or just pass up on the move completely? The new sleep mechanics certainly makes it a sturdier wall.
 
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True, but it reduces a lot of team support drizzle used to bring and makes less meta-game defining.
Its speed is still unimpressive (though scarf can fix that).
It can no longer support swift swimmers, thunder spammers, hurricane spammers, and other rain benefitting pokes well unless it holds damp rock (which limits recovery and attack power by not letting Kyogre to use specs or lefties or something) . dont get me wrong, it sets are still very viable, but it becomes more of a stand alone poke rather than being the king of an archetype.

It's still a top threat though, just nerfed when it comes to team support.
 
Everybody should be using Specs Kyogre omg. Nobody is preparing for it on the ladder and the things they can run a p limited.
 
i think that uber weather inducers will start using negative speed natures and 0 spd ivs , a bit more than they did back in B/W.
 
That doesn't even make sense, why would they attempt to have an early weather lead when relying on weather now is unreliable? You use the weather starters cause they are good mons, not for their weather. (which was already mostly true in gen 5)
 
well , Kyogre will still be the top threat in uber thought the weather got nerfed

but it doesn't spec/scarf Kypgre a lot , it is still the most powerful special attacker today~
 
Okay, Choice Scarf Kyogre is a really good Choice Scarf mon this gen.
-Ferrothorn is a lot less popular because of Defog
-Defog can wipe out the Spikes of any remaining Ferrothorns as well as hazards in general to keep a nice healthy Water Spout
-No Soul Dew means no Latias/Latios
-Not outspeeding the only DD user (Ray) doesn't matter anymore because DD Ray died to Fairy-type
-Kyogre is one of the few mons that can revenge kill Mega Mewtwo X
 
I'm searching a 'mon able to switch in safely against Scarf Kyogre while being able to keep pressure on the opponent team...
- Ferrothorn have defog to face now
- Chansey/Blissey are weak
- Palkia have to use scarf and can become setup fodder easily, especially with fairies
- No Soul Dew Lati@s
What's left ? I guess Palkia is still the best option...
 
Annabeth said:
I'm searching a 'mon able to switch in safely against Scarf Kyogre while being able to keep pressure on the opponent team...
- Ferrothorn have defog to face now
- Chansey/Blissey are weak
- Palkia have to use scarf and can become setup fodder easily, especially with fairies
- No Soul Dew Lati@s
What's left ? I guess Palkia is still the best option...
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Assault Vest Palkia and Assault Vest Dialga are great options for this.
 
Annabeth said:
I'm searching a 'mon able to switch in safely against Scarf Kyogre while being able to keep pressure on the opponent team...
- Ferrothorn have defog to face now
- Chansey/Blissey are weak
- Palkia have to use scarf and can become setup fodder easily, especially with fairies
- No Soul Dew Lati@s
What's left ? I guess Palkia is still the best option...
Click to expand...

I like Gastrodon with Toxic, will scare out Kyogre and probably mess something up and still be able to come back or even stay around and stall it.
 
Annabeth said:
I'm searching a 'mon able to switch in safely against Scarf Kyogre while being able to keep pressure on the opponent team...
- Ferrothorn have defog to face now
- Chansey/Blissey are weak
- Palkia have to use scarf and can become setup fodder easily, especially with fairies
- No Soul Dew Lati@s
What's left ? I guess Palkia is still the best option...
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Arceus-Grass is one of the best Kyogre switch-ins and it can use a bunch of cool things like Defog, Calm Mind, Stone Edge and Will-O-Wisp.
 
Oh how the mighty have fallen. I think the king of ubers has officially been dethroned. With that being said i'm going ro have to agree with Melee Mewtwo. I have a much easier time spamming fully powered specs water spouts thanks to defog. As a stand alone sweeper, Kyogre will be as good as it ever was. But as a defensive/support mon, I think it got a pretty big nerf.
 
Ascension said:
Oh how the mighty have fallen. I think the king of ubers has officially been dethroned. With that being said i'm going ro have to agree with Melee Mewtwo. I have a much easier time spamming fully powered specs water spouts thanks to defog. As a stand alone sweeper, Kyogre will be as good as it ever was. But as a defensive/support mon, I think it got a pretty big nerf.
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Kyogre literally only got buffed this gen. His team support via rain isn't as effective but Kyogre itself is still amazing.
 
-Manaphy-- said:
Kyogre literally only got buffed this gen. His team support via rain isn't as effective but Kyogre itself is still amazing.
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I agree 100% There's a good reason why Kyogre is my favorite Pokemon; he can handle any handicap. If anything this Generation is going to be the age of Choice Specs Kyogre. Just because the rain has stopped does'
 
I'm not sure if I can post sets here, so if I can't then please delete this. It might be rather underwhelming with the rain nerf but I'll post it anyways.

Kyogre
Modest
Ev: 252sp att, 252Spe, 4hp
Item lum berry
Moveset:
Water spout
Calm mind
Rest
Thunder/icebeam

Now, I know it lack power or speed, but that isn't the point. So, I'll get straight to the point. Modest nature is so it still hits extremely hard. Water spout+drizzle still Is very deadly, tho it lacks surf so it isn't hitting extremely hard at low HP. But here is the fun part, it can CM on things that don't threaten it, boosting Water spout and thunder, and still have enough speed to outspeed certain pokemon and OHKO them. Rest is here to keep water spout at it's maximum potential, while lum berry allows it to wake up the first turn. Rest is also there to cure well Posion. Ice beam or thunder is for coverage, or an alternative move should your health have reached below 50% (I say 50% because I assume You will be able to CM, which I belive still has the same Bp as surf @+1 at 50%). This set may be gimmicky tho, and it fails should you be statused before you rest which waste your lum berry and if you rest, your opponent gets a free switching but that is still preventable to an extent.
Lol, sorry if sets shouldn't be posted here. I'll go now xD.
 
If you wanted to prevent random status from tripping up Lum Berry, wouldn't it be better to run Chesto? Rest will heal any other status, anyway.

Also, not that I'm an expert or anything, but on a set like that I feel like I'd rather use Surf for consistency. Rest will help the first time it's used, but you're still not going to be guaranteed to be at full health. Not to mention that once Chesto Berry is gone, Rest pretty much forces you to take Kyogre out of action, so it can't immediately spam Water Spout anyway. CM boosts should probably be enough to make Surf just as threatening as (if not more than) an unboosted Water Spout, which already gives most Pokemon trouble.
 
SnoopingGil said:
If you wanted to prevent random status from tripping up Lum Berry, wouldn't it be better to run Chesto? Rest will heal any other status, anyway.

Also, not that I'm an expert or anything, but on a set like that I feel like I'd rather use Surf for consistency. Rest will help the first time it's used, but you're still not going to be guaranteed to be at full health. Not to mention that once Chesto Berry is gone, Rest pretty much forces you to take Kyogre out of action, so it can't immediately spam Water Spout anyway. CM boosts should probably be enough to make Surf just as threatening as (if not more than) an unboosted Water Spout, which already gives most Pokemon trouble.
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Yeah, I was trying to decide if I should replace water spout with Surf or Hydro pump. I didn't use chesto berry because I don't have one (on cartridge) so yeah.
 
Flamebot said:
Yeah, I was trying to decide if I should replace water spout with Surf or Hydro pump. I didn't use chesto berry because I don't have one (on cartridge) so yeah.
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The fact that you have a Kyogre ingame but not a Chesto Berry bothers me

Seriously though, Kyogre fits on literally every team and can fit a ton of roles, revenges MMX and Ho-oh, it's just such a good mon.
 
How about an assault vest set?

Kyogre @ Assault Vest
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 84 SAtk / 204 HP / 220 SDef
Modest Nature
- Thunder
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Signal Beam

I don't play Ubers much so I'm not sure about what threats I need to fine tune Kygore's evs to but, regardless Kyogre is a Pokemon that is pleading for an assault vest. Most Kyogres I see run 3-4 attacks anyway and Kyogre's special defense is blindingly high to begin with. Assault vest takes his base special defense to 210 making him beyond viable as what might possibly be the best special tank in Ubers.
 
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Choice specs Heliolisk can effectively counter any Kyogre set
252 SpA Choice Specs Heliolisk Thunder vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Kyogre: 270-320 (66.9 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
Aquasition said:
Because Kyogre likes the extra power from modest, and timid means you get to smack a Zekrom once in the face before he just squishes you with Bolt Strike, and why would one stay in vs Zekrom.
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Smh, timid still 2hko Zekrom with full-powered Water Sprout. Meaning adamant Scarf Zekrom cannot come in to take one Sprout and proceed to revenge as Timid ensures Kyogre outspeeds Adamant Zekrom the turn after.

Also outspeeds Blaziken at +1 speed which is incredibly relevant.

Also outspeeds Deoxy-A which is somewhat relevant.

Also timid full powered sprout still able to OHKO things like mewtwo.
 
Well Reviver while the points you do make are true there are also still some pretty big reasons to run Modest.

Modest Choice Scarf Water Spout for example bears the power to OHKO 252 HP Arceus hit neutrally by Water Spout a good portion of the time after Arceus has taken Stealth Rock damage:

252+ SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Arceus in Rain: 382-451 (86 - 101.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Compared to Timid which OHKOes far less frequently:

252 SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Arceus in Rain: 348-411 (78.3 - 92.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

There's also the issue against 252 HP Water Arceus. Water Spout after Stealth Rock actually has rather high chance to 2HKO if Modest then compared to Timid:

252+ SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Water in Rain: 191-225 (43 - 50.6%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Water in Rain: 175-207 (39.4 - 46.6%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Other relevant calculations:

252 SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 200 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas in Rain: 415-490 (93.6 - 110.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 200 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas in Rain: 456-537 (102.9 - 121.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Kyogre Thunder vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Yveltal: 272-320 (69.2 - 81.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Kyogre Thunder vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Yveltal: 298-352 (75.8 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Kyogre Surf vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Arceus in Rain: 210-247 (47.2 - 55.6%) -- 76.2% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Kyogre Surf vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Arceus in Rain: 229-271 (51.5 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

There's probably more but yeah its a tad bit hard to find all of them.

There's no doubt Timid's speed boost is very very useful, but I wouldn't call it completely superior to Modest. Modest still has some merit. Erm that and:

Also outspeeds Blaziken at +1 speed which is incredibly relevant.
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While this is true, Mega Blaziken at +1 always outspeed, which I do think is more notable then regular Blaziken. Also Kyogre is a terrible Blaziken check in general. If it runs Protect it can use it to nab a second speed boost which pretty much renders the Timid boost in that case somewhat useless.

I will agree that it is nice for speed tying at worse with other things that have a base 90 speed and beating Deoxys-A though.
 
Here comes an old set:

WRECK EVERYTHING AS POSSIBLE IN 5 TURNS (Choice Specs)
Kyogre_XY.gif

Item: Choice Specs
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 HP/252 SpA/4 Spe
Moves:
- Water Spout
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Thunder

The wallbreaker. It is back. For more. I couldn't think of a better name, but I considered the fact that Water Spout has a mediocre 5 PP (no PP Up) and that Drizzle now always lasts 5 turns.

Anyways, Water Spout and Thunder are fairly obvious since they're incredible in the rain. Surf can be used over Water Spout after Kyogre gets weakened and Ice Beam destroys Shaymin-S and heavily dents Arceus-Grass (the latter may force Kyogre with a Grass-type Judgment, however).

CALCS (after Kyogre is hit by Stealth Rock in the switch, meaning 131 BP):

  • 248/252 (Careful) Giratina: 36.97% - 43.53%
  • 0/0 Palkia: 38.94% - 45.79%
  • 4/252 (Calm) Chansey: 42.52% - 50.16% (Possible 2HKO)
  • 252/224 (Calm) Tentacruel: 52.2% - 61.5% (Possible 2HKO)
  • 252/252 (Sassy) Ferrothorn: 53.98% - 63.64% (guaranteed 2HKO)
  • 252/4 Arceus-Grass: 56.08% - 66.22% (guaranteed 2HKO)
  • 104/0 Zekrom: 79.84% - 94.01% (Possible OHKO after Stealth Rock)
  • 252/80 Lugia: 91.59%+ (OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Chansey has a guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock if it is running a Bold nature, while Arceus that doesn't resist Water Spout gets OHKOd. Tentacruel running Protect and Rain Dish survives the 2HKO, however.


Due to my Kyogre being Timid, I'm not sure if it can still be used with Choice Specs and a different EV spread.
 
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