March of the Penguins - An Empoleon Team

[VulcanFenrir]

Here they are!

So without further adieu lets get on with the show!

So this idea came to me after I was play testing Sceptile. I had recently gotten a build that was centered more around OU and wasn't SubSeed. After trying the build out I thought it was walled fairly easily by the pokemon it was intending to kill i.e. Latias wouldn't take a scratch because of the High SPD, Focus Blast couldn't do crap to Blissey who would often wall it, and ScarfTran was a forced switch especially if it came in on HP Fire. So I tried a SD Build that was just as horrible, but while I was trying to remake him I accidentally clicked on Swords Dance on the page behind it and immediately saw Empoleon. And thus, this team was born. So now for a closer look:

Heatran@Shuca Berry
Naive Nature
Flash Fire Ability
EVs: 4 HP/252 Sp. Atk/252 Speed
Moveset:
Stealth Rock
Fire Blast (Might change to Flamethrower for the accuracy)
Earth Power
HP Grass

Notes:
Your standard Heatran lead. Shuca berry is to protect from other ScarfTrans and then Earth Power right back at them. He helps some of the team's weaknesses as he can absorb fire, take 1/4 Ice moves for Gliscor, and get rid of Swamperts fairly easy. He is currently a candidate for replacement, however, as I don't really use him too much in a battle. On top of that he is slower then most leads leaving him vulnerable to Taunt or EQ from Aerodactyl which removes his berry for later (I know I should probably be switching him out against Aerodactyl, just saying).

Cresselia@Leftovers
Bold Nature
Levitate Ability
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Defense/4 Sp. Atk
Moveset:
Reflect
Moonlight
Ice Beam
Thunder Wave

Notes:
So I used to be against Cresselia because it's recovery move is pretty bad against OU since Tyranitar can screw it over pretty badly, but here I am using it with TTar on my team. The reason I still keep it is because of Thunder Wave and Reflect. Thunder Wave paralyzes so many pokemon in 1 game it's not even funny. The slowed pokemon just risk getting owned by a +2 Empoleon which is an amazing combo. Reflect helps with EQ, ScarfTar, and any Fighting moves that get through to my guys which most are weak to, another reason to keep Cresselia. Ice Beam also helps with Salamence because if Salamence gets Outrage locked then I just "revenge" switch into Cresselia and either T Wave or Ice Beam result in the Dragon of choice being crippled.

Tyranitar@Choice Scarf
Jolly Nature
Sand Stream ability
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Speed
Moveset:
Pursuit
Crunch
Stone Edge
Earthquake

Notes:
Standard ScarfTar. Eliminates Latias threat, Sand Stream gives Gliscor an added Evasion boost and since most pokemon on my team are Steel or Rock they take no damage while negating Leftovers and sometimes killing pokemon before they get to use them. The problem with ScarfTar is that his Ground weakness is another huge thing to add to the team as most of my pokemon are weak to Ground. Lastly he becomes an easy pokemon to be set up on after he kills a pokemon and has to switch because he is choice locked.

Gliscor@Leftovers
Impish Nature
Sand Veil Ability
EVs: 252 HP/40 Defense/216 Speed
Moveset:
Earthquake
Roost
Aerial Ace
Taunt

Notes:
Gliscor is by far my most favorite pokemon. He looks cool, he's purple, and to top it off he's got 2 Resistances vital to this team. Taunt helps my team easily beat BP teams (Still haven't lost to one yet) and breaks walls. Aerial Ace is there because currently I have no means of taking out fighting types and since it's not a completely normal thing to see Aerial Ace on Gliscor it usually ends up killing them. Ice and water weaknesses are blocked by Heatran, Empoleon, and Lucario as well as Cresselia if it's special.

Lucario@Choice Specs
Modest Nature
Inner Focus Ability
EVs: 4 HP/252 Sp. Atk/252 Speed
Moveset:
Aura Sphere
Vacuum Wave
Shadow Ball
HP Rock

Notes:
Lucario has become a valued asset to this team as his movset seems to destroy Latias and sometimes Salamence with Stealth Rock support. I chose Lucario originally because when I was thinking about Salamence counters I noticed that most Salamence builds have decreased SpD natures meaning a special attacker would be the best to take them down, and who better then Lucario? Vacuum wave destroys ScarfTars and is nice to hit a ScarfTran with too although I'm not too sure about Lucario's survivability against Tran even with Vacuum Wave. HP Rock kills Salamence and Shadow Ball destroys Latias as well as Ghosts thinking they can switch in against a CC if they don't know he's Choice Specs or Aura Sphere later in the game.

and last but definately not least....

EMPOLEON!
Adamant Nature
Leftovers
Torrent Ability
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Speed
Moveset:
Swords Dance
Aqua Jet
Drill Peck
Earthquake

Notes:
This thing is a beast. With 84/88/101 Defenses and only 3 weaknesses it sure can take a hit...and then dish it right back out. The idea is like most sweepers; to force a switch and then Swords Dance. Most people don't expect it and as such aren't prepared for it's moveset. Aqua Jet destroys ScarfTar, Earthquake for Heatran or Lucario, and Drill Peck helps against fighting types. All in all the pokemon can rack up some serious damage after some pokemon are Thunder Waved by Cresselia.

Well that's all for my Empoleon team, I hope you enjoyed. Feel free to correct any mistakes I have made and please be as harsh as possible, I'm trying to improve this team and seeing as I'm new to competitive battling I am not too good at damage calculations nor at know speed values for some pokemon. There will be more to come such as a current team part and Threats but those will have to wait. Thank you for you time~!
​

 

[ginganinja]

Well in keeping with the theme of the team I suggest a Latias over Cressilia. I can run almost the exact same set but exchanges Ice Beam or Dragon Pulse and Recover/Roost in exchange for Moonlight. Cressilia is more bulky but Latias can dish out more damage. The reason I suggest Latias over Cressilia as that Latias can actually have a decent recovery move in SS while Cress does not. 25% just does not cut it on OU and latias can heal 50% in one go. Since you run T-tar on your team SS will be up very quicky and this hampers Cress's survivability.

I also suggest Toxic over Aerial Ace on Gliscor to weaken pokemon enough so that Lucario and Empoleon can smash through the opponients team.

 

[VulcanFenrir]

The Latias idea seems very doable and I think I will test it out soon, but for the Toxic on Gliscor I can't say I agree. First of all Thunder Wave on Cress or Latias will be affecting quite a few of the opponents pokemon. The speed decrease also helps Empoleon to run over a lot of pokemon and paralyze hax are always nice, especially on switching. I also would like Aerial Ace because Gliscor and Cress were supposed to be my Anti-Fighting pokemon and since Latias tends to attract Pursuiting TTars and Ice based attacks then switching into Gliscor for Toxic becomes very risky. If I do switch him it will be after my lead which generally is when I send out Cress for Reflect, or after TTar dies/gets locked in.

However with that being said Latias' nice Sp. Def. and the ability to T Wave, Lay down reflect, instantly heal, and have some type of damage way over Cresselia would benefit the team quite a bit. The only problem I see is that if Gliscor is out I can no longer switch into Latias safely without some decent prediction as most pokemon they send out will have Ice moves. I could switch to Empoleon or Heatran but I don't want Empoleon or Lucario to be discovered early as it ruins the element of surprise. Heatran would possibly die if the Ice attacker had any ground or water type moves and wouldn't even allow for an HP Grass. However I am still willing to test Latias.

 

[Setsuna]

This isn't a bad team, but I think the weak link here is the way the it has been assembled, and more importantly, the current status of the synergy. At a quick glance, there are three things that must be addressed before starting to analyze and make recommendations, these are the important weakness to Ground-, Fight-, and Water-type moves that the team currently has. As you can see, most of your Pokemon happen to share those aforementioned weakness, respectively; for instance, Lucario, Empoleon, Heatran and Tyranitar have two problems in common (Fight-, Ground-types), and having such important weaknesses between so many members of the team is just bad and reduces coverage, among other things. On the other hand, there is another detail that has to be underlined, and that is how troublesome TauntGyarados is to this team -- this particular variant of Gyarados has different opportunities to set up, for instance: on Tyranitar's EQ/Pursuit, Luke's Aura Sphere/Vacuum Wave, Cresselia, and Gliscor on the switch in. In my opinion, the most replaceable member of the team is Lucario, as it only attempts to surprise the enemy by using Choice Specs and hitting as hard as possible when it gets the right moment to do so; however, from a general standpoint, what Lucario is actually doing for the team is just adding another weakness to Ground- and Fight-type moves, while also doing anything at all to help Empoleon on its task as a sweeper.
Based on the main idea and Pokemon this team was built around, I recommend you to remove Lucario from the team and place Celebi instead. The set I have in mind is the following: Bold nature with 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe EVs, and the moves Grass Knot | Leech Seed | HP Fire/Thunder Wave | Recover. There are several reasons why I suggest using Celebi over Lucario, starting by the fact that Celebi is an excellent teammate for this variant of Empoleon. This set of Celebi has the unique characteristic of being bulky enough to take hits from both sides of the spectrum (and resist the weaknesses Empoleon has); it also gives Empoleon the possbility to get rid of Ground-type Pokemon such as Swampert and Hippowdon who otherwise would give troubles to the penguin with their respective STAB Earthquakes. Additionally, the ability to spread paralysis, and serve as a faithful counter of BulkyGyarados, are details that shouldn't go unnoticed when considering a partner for the set of Empoleon that you're using. Last but not least, by adding Celebi to the team the synergy gets plausibly improved, as the previous weaknesses to Ground-, Fight-, and Water-type moves get practically invisible.

Lastly, as the second and final recommendation, I suggest considering Toxic over Aerial Ace on Gliscor, since catching the likes of Latias, Vaporeon, Swampert and Suicune (etc) on the switch in is a really tempting idea, and EQ will still deal, decently, with Fight-type Pokemon.

Good team overall, gl.

 

[george182]

The point in that empoleon is to draw in special walls like blissey and pokemon like swampert and KO them. Which is why I suggest a calm mind lucario:
Lucario @ salac berry
252 speed, 252 sp.atk
Modest
Inner focus
- Calm mind
- Substitute
- Aura sphere
- Shadow ball/dark pulse
This can take advantage of empoleon taking out special walls, and is quite an effective sweeper after a calm mind or two, substitute blocks status and activate's the salac berry, while providing some protecting from counters. Lucario can lure in pokemon like rotom, salamence etc. and KO them so they don't stop an empoleon sweep. Remember Lucario has higher sp.atk than it does atk!

Empoleon isn't a great lone sword dancer, and is more support pokemon from special attackers like lucario, nastyplot crobat, nastyplot azelf etc.

EDIT: I also agree with toxic over aerial ace, heracross is dead in this metagame, and it can't touch you unless it uses façade and is statused. Toxic the wall e.g. hippowdon or vaporeon first switch, then later on taunt them on the switch, they are then pretty much hopeless and this has become the standard anti stall gliscor.

 

[Adm. Empoleon]

Hey, finally someone else who uses Empoleon on their team! OK, as a personal user of Empoleon, I would suggest the following:

1)You said that Heatran isn't used much? Try Swampert.

Swampert@Leftovers
252 HP \252 Def \252 Atk
Relaxed
~Stealth Rock
~Roar
~Ice Beam
~Earthquake

It can also OHKO Mence (assuming he hasn't DD'ed), do a fair amount of damage to TTar, and if Aero is the other guy's lead, you can OHKO him via Ice Beam after a taunt. But beware of Celebi, Breloom, and other guys that Swampert hate.

2)I agree with the guys above; Toxic over Aerial Ace.

3)Have you considered Latias over Cresselia? It can switch in to cover Empoleon's weak points (Electric, Thunder, Ground), and by this moveset, I think you can also support the team along the way:

Latias@Leftovers
252 HP \ 4 Def \252 Spd
Timid
~Wish
~Protect
~Thunder Wave
~Dragon Pulse

4)Make the description for TTar a little bit longer to avoid this thread being closed. :)

Hope this helps!

 

[Vanity]

Cresselia@Leftovers
Bold Nature
Levitate Ability
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Defense/4 Sp. Atk
Moveset:
Reflect
Moonlight
Light Screen
Psychic

Notes:
So I used to be against Cresselia because it's recovery move is pretty bad against OU since Tyranitar can screw it over pretty badly, but here I am using it with TTar on my team. The reason I still keep it is because of Thunder Wave and Reflect. Thunder Wave paralyzes so many pokemon in 1 game it's not even funny. The slowed pokemon just risk getting owned by a +2 Empoleon which is an amazing combo. Reflect helps with EQ, ScarfTar, and any Fighting moves that get through to my guys which most are weak to, another reason to keep Cresselia. Ice Beam also helps with Salamence because if Salamence gets Outrage locked then I just "revenge" switch into Cresselia and either T Wave or Ice Beam result in the Dragon of choice being crippled.

That is a very weird looking Cresselia. My fixes in bold.


Also That Empoleon is frightening Use SubPetya Emp instead.

 

[VulcanFenrir]

This isn't a bad team, but I think the weak link here is the way the it has been assembled, and more importantly, the current status of the synergy. At a quick glance, there are three things that must be addressed before starting to analyze and make recommendations, these are the important weakness to Ground-, Fight-, and Water-type moves that the team currently has. As you can see, most of your Pokemon happen to share those aforementioned weakness, respectively; for instance, Lucario, Empoleon, Heatran and Tyranitar have two problems in common (Fight-, Ground-types), and having such important weaknesses between so many members of the team is just bad and reduces coverage, among other things. On the other hand, there is another detail that has to be underlined, and that is how troublesome TauntGyarados is to this team -- this particular variant of Gyarados has different opportunities to set up, for instance: on Tyranitar's EQ/Pursuit, Luke's Aura Sphere/Vacuum Wave, Cresselia, and Gliscor on the switch in. In my opinion, the most replaceable member of the team is Lucario, as it only attempts to surprise the enemy by using Choice Specs and hitting as hard as possible when it gets the right moment to do so; however, from a general standpoint, what Lucario is actually doing for the team is just adding another weakness to Ground- and Fight-type moves, while also doing anything at all to help Empoleon on its task as a sweeper.
Based on the main idea and Pokemon this team was built around, I recommend you to remove Lucario from the team and place Celebi instead. The set I have in mind is the following: Bold nature with 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe EVs, and the moves Grass Knot | Leech Seed | HP Fire/Thunder Wave | Recover. There are several reasons why I suggest using Celebi over Lucario, starting by the fact that Celebi is an excellent teammate for this variant of Empoleon. This set of Celebi has the unique characteristic of being bulky enough to take hits from both sides of the spectrum (and resist the weaknesses Empoleon has); it also gives Empoleon the possbility to get rid of Ground-type Pokemon such as Swampert and Hippowdon who otherwise would give troubles to the penguin with their respective STAB Earthquakes. Additionally, the ability to spread paralysis, and serve as a faithful counter of BulkyGyarados, are details that shouldn't go unnoticed when considering a partner for the set of Empoleon that you're using. Last but not least, by adding Celebi to the team the synergy gets plausibly improved, as the previous weaknesses to Ground-, Fight-, and Water-type moves get practically invisible.

Lastly, as the second and final recommendation, I suggest considering Toxic over Aerial Ace on Gliscor, since catching the likes of Latias, Vaporeon, Swampert and Suicune (etc) on the switch in is a really tempting idea, and EQ will still deal, decently, with Fight-type Pokemon.

Good team overall, gl.

Alright let me first start off by saying I totally agree with getting rid of Lucario. I realized some time after I made this post that Lucario didn't really do much for the team but I couldn't think of what to do to replace him and Celebi seems to be perfect for the above reasons stated. To all that have stated to switch Aerial Ace for Toxic on Gliscor I will be doing that thank you for that suggestion. I realized after switching Gliscor in on a Machamp last night that EQ works fine. Setsuna, I really appreciate this rate and I feel that it will help my teams tons, thanks~! :)

Hey, finally someone else who uses Empoleon on their team! OK, as a personal user of Empoleon, I would suggest the following:

1)You said that Heatran isn't used much? Try Swampert.

Swampert@Leftovers
252 HP \252 Def \252 Atk
Relaxed
~Stealth Rock
~Roar
~Ice Beam
~Earthquake

It can also OHKO Mence (assuming he hasn't DD'ed), do a fair amount of damage to TTar, and if Aero is the other guy's lead, you can OHKO him via Ice Beam after a taunt. But beware of Celebi, Breloom, and other guys that Swampert hate.

2)I agree with the guys above; Toxic over Aerial Ace.

3)Have you considered Latias over Cresselia? It can switch in to cover Empoleon's weak points (Electric, Thunder, Ground), and by this moveset, I think you can also support the team along the way:

Latias@Leftovers
252 HP \ 4 Def \252 Spd
Timid
~Wish
~Protect
~Thunder Wave
~Dragon Pulse

4)Make the description for TTar a little bit longer to avoid this thread being closed. :)

Hope this helps!

Awesome, another user who sees the potential of penguins :). I considered Swampert as a lead in the beginning but with my original team Fire was a huge weakness, and rather then resist it I thought I would just absorb it. But with the edit that Setsuna made I think I might start with Swampert now. That being said Latias and Salamence aren't that much of a problem on this team thanks to Scarftar Pursuiting Latias and Stone Edge kills any Salamence with SR coverage.

However Swampert does remove the need to switch on Aerodactyl leads and Heatran seemed to run weird as any sleep lead/taunt lead would kinda wreck him as then they could switch out to an appropriate counter or stay in there and wreck him. Aerodactyl destroyed Heatran so forced a switch, Machamp was something I wasn't going to stay in on, Infernape is the same, and Swampert was an easy forced switch because I wasn't going to risk a STAB SE Surf and have them start off with an easy KO.

Now on the topic of Latias. I have tested quite a few builds of them and can't say I like it. Latias adds another Ice weakness to the team (Gliscor, Celebi) Ice being something most teams have to counter the dragons. While your build seems to be pretty good, it forces me to switch in Swampert, TTar, or Empoleon on an Ice move which Empoleon is the only who will take it resisted. Wish seems to be a nice move and protect to give easy heal as well as stall if they were pre-poisoned by Gliscor. It seems to be really nice but the only problem I have is the vulnerability it has while using Wish. It could easily be status inflicted when using Wish. I still think I will test this over Cresselia as this build seems to be more team oriented and I think will work nicely. Also I lengthened the TTar post so hopefully this won't get closed.

That is a very weird looking Cresselia. My fixes in bold.


Also That Empoleon is frightening Use SubPetya Emp instead.

Um, I prefer T Wave over Light Screen on my Cresselia as it allows Empoleon to outspeed Paralyzed pokemon, plus para hax are always nice. Dark has immunity to Psychic letting ScarfTar switch in and proceed to OHKO/2HKO. The Cress I ran worked pretty well with the team the only problem I had is Moonlight and TTar but it covered the weaknesses it needed to and has actually won me some games.

Also, Empoleon is not changing. I don't like running Standard pokemon and as such I tend to avoid them. Notice how the original build had a weird (according to you) Cresselia, Choic Specs Luca, and SD Empoleon. These are all some nice elements of surprise especially SD Empoleon. SubPetaya is a little boring for me as it is standard and SD raises Empoleon's attack stat way higher then the Sp Atk. stat would be with a Petaya. Torrent is nice have active but because of no Leftovers Empoleons health becomes 25% and could easily be taken out by something that resists Ice Beam/Surf.

Yes, I am against changing Empoleon and I know I should be a bit more open in a RMT but out of all my pokemon he is the one that is never going to change, or at least not for a while.

EDIT: I should probably state my changes on this post so I am going to bold them down here:
Gliscor will be running Toxic instead of Aerial Ace
The other pokemon that were mentioned will have to be tested before they are confirmed to be in.

 

[ThirteenOfTwo]

That is a very weird looking Cresselia. My fixes in bold.


Also That Empoleon is frightening Use SubPetya Emp instead.

That's ... a pretty standard Cress set. It's also the best counter to Salamence that I have ever seen or used. Switch in on the attack which won't 2HKO and Mence eats a rather unexpected Ice Beam for the OHKO. TWave spreads status. TTar, Empoleon, Heatran, and Lucario are all weak to mostly physical moves with types like Ground and Fighting, meaning keep Reflect over Light Screen.

Do consider, though, whether it would be better to use a wall that's not crippled by sandstorm.

 

[Cuiv]

I would use Rock Slide over Drill Peck on Empoleon. Rock Slide hits SE on some important things like Gyarados and Salamence that might try to switch in. Drill Peck really only has an edge against Breloom and Celebi over Aqua Jet/EQ. I think Rock Slide is just better for coverage.