I feel this with the midgames for RT / EoS especially
I make it a fun game to see how many quests I can clear out in one game, profit, stuff
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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
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I make it a fun game to see how many quests I can clear out in one game, profit, stuff
I'm hoping the inverse happens with Pokemon Conquest when they eventually do DS NSO, I saw a lot of people trying Nobunaga's Ambition in the SNES NSO and want that for the Pokemon version of it, lmao. I think Conquest is legitimately a very good game but I'm also not even remotely surprised it sold terribly outside of Japan, tactics games weren't exactly popular back then anyway.
The thing I appreciate the most about pokemon mystery dungeon is that, also like Pokemon Conquest, it's a double spinoff. They took a series made by a particular dev and had a lot of the same developers make that series again but with a Pokemon coat of paint over it. So whether you are an original dragon quest mystery dungeon fan, original nobunaga's ambition fan, or pokemon fan you get something out of these spinoffs.
granted I have no idea how many fans of pokemon mystery dungeon even know about the other mystery dungeons whether from dragon quest or just all over the psp and vita.
I've tried Shiren 5 and Chocobo Mystery Dungeon, not into DQ so never tried that one
I'll maybe try Shiren 6 someday, not any time soon, Chocobo was kinda fun
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I don't know if I agree with this entirely? With complaints of game speed, I definitely understand - it's pretty grueling to play sessions of these games when you start to feel how long each turn takes and track how many loops the battle theme has done in fights that take place before you leave the second town. But gameplay wise, the games hold up quite decently overall to me. An understated part of the orre games is how decently they work as a self-contained entity. The Orre games can reasonably be approached as just A Couple Weird GameCube RPGs, relatively unconcerned with things like pokedex completion and building up a player for postgame PvP / PvE the way the main series is. The focus stays narrow - snag Shadow Pokemon, grind to purify them if you like, battle from linear story beat to linear story beat. The slow engine is thankfully somewhat offset by the games being pretty short, especially Colosseum. For players jumping in with no prior context, if they have a bit of time and patience, I could see this game being quite appreciated.
So much of what I see players complain about in the Orre games is based on comparison to the modern game standards for movepools and Pokemon design. There's cases where I can't help but agree - I wouldn't die on the hill that stuff like the non-evolving Colo Yanma or XD Nosepass are even remotely usable - but watching players that are experienced with the main series stick their noses up at whole swathes of these games' rosters feels like watching a snob turn their nose up at a nice, if bland, cooked meal while at a camp site because they're mad nobody is preparing them an opulent 4 course meal topped with caviar. The game is giving you completely functional tools. If you are nothing without 80+ BP STABs off of your better attacking stat, you probably don't deserve them. Learn to live with an iota of friction between your present and your potential ideal. Engage with the world as it is.
Tangent, Pokemon Conquest. It is so cool but it is also so bad. The units and the maps both try to be fun and gimmicky but in overlaying those gameplay wrinkles something like 70% of the game is rendered unusably clunky at worst and obsolete under the shadow of a handful of reliably broken Warlord + Pokemon combos at best. The overworld mirco management is whatever, I can handle it as a series holdover, but the battles themselves suck. If you go into them with a statistical trump card, you just need to not get hosed by RNG and slowly make blatant moves or hope a map hazard doesn't make things randomly take 5 more turns to resolve than they should have. If a fight is close enough to require actual strategy, your room to leverage player control can be extremely stunted by the small amount of options. It's simultaneously too easy to break over your knee and unfun to play when you unoptimize your play to make things close instead.
Inversely Colo focusing entirely on Snag battles means it doesn't have much to do compared to the immediate Gen 3 games at the time. It was a negative point reviewers had back then, alongside human assets being worse than mon ones
It's pretty archaic for the time, and moreso now, all ignoring the game balance issues
XD is a much better game, but people are mad it isn't as edgy
It's pretty archaic for the time, and moreso now, all ignoring the game balance issues
VGC should allow Mythical Pokémon.
I understand why they were initially event exclusive Pokemon that couldn’t be obtained via normal gameplay, hence the ban to promote accessibility- though VGC’s accessibility has never really been accessible- but that’s a discussion for another time.
Now a good chunk of mythical Pokemon have been obtainable from indefinite events, there’s no reason for those Pokemon to be banned.
Here’s a list of mythical Pokemon from indefinite events: Mew, Celebi, Jirachi, Deoxys, Manaphy, Phione, Darkrai, Shaymin, Arceus, Meloetta, Keldeo, Meltan, Melmetal, Pecharunt, and Magearna. Assuming Legends Z-A will follow in PLA in having the entire region’s Dex in the game, I imagine that Hoopa, Diancie, and Volcanion will be normally catchable as well. Granted, some of these do require multiple games and Home to transfer between them, but this is no different from having to own PLA for Sneasler and Ursaluna, or SwSh’s DLC for Calyrex. Not to mention they are already allowing event only Pokémon with Walking Wake and Iron Leaves along with SwSh’s mythical season during Battle Stadium- so it’s not like it’s unheard of . I think Pecharunt is particular slap in the face because its from an indefinite event in SV that can be obtained as long as you competed the DLC. It’s just one of those decisions that made a sense a long time ago but does not make sense as games have continued to change accessibility.
I understand why they were initially event exclusive Pokemon that couldn’t be obtained via normal gameplay, hence the ban to promote accessibility- though VGC’s accessibility has never really been accessible- but that’s a discussion for another time.
Now a good chunk of mythical Pokemon have been obtainable from indefinite events, there’s no reason for those Pokemon to be banned.
Here’s a list of mythical Pokemon from indefinite events: Mew, Celebi, Jirachi, Deoxys, Manaphy, Phione, Darkrai, Shaymin, Arceus, Meloetta, Keldeo, Meltan, Melmetal, Pecharunt, and Magearna. Assuming Legends Z-A will follow in PLA in having the entire region’s Dex in the game, I imagine that Hoopa, Diancie, and Volcanion will be normally catchable as well. Granted, some of these do require multiple games and Home to transfer between them, but this is no different from having to own PLA for Sneasler and Ursaluna, or SwSh’s DLC for Calyrex. Not to mention they are already allowing event only Pokémon with Walking Wake and Iron Leaves along with SwSh’s mythical season during Battle Stadium- so it’s not like it’s unheard of . I think Pecharunt is particular slap in the face because its from an indefinite event in SV that can be obtained as long as you competed the DLC. It’s just one of those decisions that made a sense a long time ago but does not make sense as games have continued to change accessibility.
Colosseum is a great game. XD is outright an improvement overall, but the tone shift kills it.
It's just not the same, Orre doesn't work with a literal child protag. It was built on Colosseum's idea of it being a grimy, gritty, rough region, so it just doesn't work with the standard story conventions.
It's just not the same, Orre doesn't work with a literal child protag. It was built on Colosseum's idea of it being a grimy, gritty, rough region, so it just doesn't work with the standard story conventions.
Sadly said edgy protag has the personality of cardboard like mainline the moment you can move him
0 motivation to betray Snagem, plays by the rules effectively despite using a bomb in the intro, and XD devs admitting that they were gonna randomly make him an evil post boss but scrapped gets me. Then Rui has the personality of a metal detector
Michael suffers from blobface, but he remotely has story motivation, and isn't animated like shit
I've seen people mad that XD has a harbor and some vegetated areas despite...Colo also doing this
It never was 100% Arizona desert
0 motivation to betray Snagem, plays by the rules effectively despite using a bomb in the intro, and XD devs admitting that they were gonna randomly make him an evil post boss but scrapped gets me. Then Rui has the personality of a metal detector
Michael suffers from blobface, but he remotely has story motivation, and isn't animated like shit
I've seen people mad that XD has a harbor and some vegetated areas despite...Colo also doing this
It never was 100% Arizona desert
Also the fact that events early on required going to real places in person, which could legitimately be difficult for a child depending on the context. Nowadays most (if not all?) event Pokémon are distributed online so their only excuse is the fact that the events are timed. And that can also be fixed by making Myhtical Pokémon permanently available, which they've started doing like you said.
I did, I got it when it came out.
Celebi shouldn't be on that list, people cannot obtain copies of VC Crystal anymore with the 3DS eshop shutdown.
My point is that you can still obtain Celebi should you have VC Crystal and Pokebank before the shutdown, so I still consider it fair .
Even if you didn't have VC Crystal you can still also obtain Celebi by way of the special research they did for it in Go. Obviously takes a while to complete but it's 100% available.
You can't transfer mythicals from Go to a game that doesn't already have that mythical registered in the dex. You have to already have a Celebi to get one from Go.
I've never seen this substantiated or the interview/dev note where this was cited, only hearsay from some old Playthrough video coverage that did not itself provide the source and instead is usually what was cited by others.
Aka Chuggaaconroy made it up.
While I get the argument, my biggest issue is categorization of these mythicals, they can't be restricted because they were allowed alongside unlimited restricted mons in SS and none of them were used, arceus would be the only one that should probably be a restricted because cmon, it's arceus. But a lot of them are also way stronger than regular mons, magearna would be kinda nutty and darkrai reintroduces dark void shenanigans, yes it's been nerfed significantly but you still have a 75% chance of hitting at least one of them and for a pokemon that's so fast and so threatening that gambling is just not very enjoyable, not to mention pokemon like shaymin sky who are flinchbots, Genesect who would be a major threat etc etc, and yes regular mons these days are absolutely ludicrously strong as well, but do we really need more of these huge threats running about? I'd argue probably not, it would be interesting to see though because I may be proven wrong, albeit a long as arceus is classified as a restricted because if it wasn't immediate 100% usage rate
Like every other protag. The Sun/Moon protag is infamously known for having the facial range of that Twilight actress.
The moment the player takes over, he's cardboard. But not the backstory, which impacts the overall story. It's undeniable that Orre has an unique gritiness to it, and part of it is the protag looking the part.
If there's ever a spinoff that I think desperately needs a remake to smooth out the rough edges, it's Pokemon Colosseum.
What you have to pick from is a pool of 50% meme mons and 50% okay mons - not a good look in a game with roughly 50 options. Very occasionally you'll get a "holy crap this is amazing mon" like Furret or Meditite that generally went overlooked in their respective games but it's few and far between. Contrast this to XD, where almost every Pokemon in that game has something to offer to set it apart (though it does come at the expense of half the roster being locked to Citadark, unfortunately). A good example of this would be how Gulpin is your only real Toxic user unless you're lucky enough to roll Surskit and trade for Shuckle given TM06's Orre Colosseum / postgame status. XD has dud mons too (Mawile and Trapinch come to mind) but they are nowhere near as common as Colosseum's underwhelming roster.
A prime example of how awkward Colosseum mons are is Qwilfish. On paper, putting Qwilfish in a game like Colosseum is a great idea. Without stuff like Starmie or Lapras or Tentacruel and the like to make it basically obsolete, Qwilfish should shine. But it not only has the objectively weakest Surf of all the Water types, it doesn't even get Sludge Bomb until the last 5% of the game (good luck beating Under Colosseum with their high levels).
Another great example is Sudowoodo. It's basically the only real Rock type in the game (lol Magcargo level 37 evolution and Tyranitar final Shadow Pokemon pre-credits). In a Doubles-centric game, Rock Slide sounds like a lot of fun. Too bad almost every boss after it uses Earthquake or Water moves.
Hitmontop: Intimidate in Doubles? Sounds cool. Needing to get the Brick Break TM from the level 50 Pyrite Colosseum to really do anything with it is not (lol Triple Kick).
A good chunk of the other mons are stuff that has gained evolutions since then (Misdreavus / Murkrow / Aipom / Piloswine / Yanma / Sneasel / Dunsparce) and / or have been benefited by the physical / special split and better moves - something a remake would naturally fix. You know what else a remake should fix? The absurdly garbage final boss fight with Evice.
Some mons in Colosseum are the solution to the next boss fight and then are underwhelming after, very bad in a game where you don't want to swap team members due to the high level curve. Noctowl helps for Miror B but then has little offensive presence afterward basically making it a purely Hypnosis / Reflect bot. Mantine is good for Dakim but falls off after that. Ledian is hilariously one of the better Venus counters thanks to Safeguard but then you drop it because it's Ledian LOL.
Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness took a barely playable game in Pokemon Colosseum and simply made it utterly amazing. XD is a contender for my favorite Pokemon game period in spite of how battle heavy it is. That's what happens when the developers actually care about making a fun roster to use and making the difficulty more balanced (Pokemon Colosseum's idea of challenge is constant level spikes which just doesn't work in a linear game and essentially forces you to go grind by endgame). Outside the starters and some of the early Pyrite stuff, Colosseum's options are pretty dire. Pokemon Colosseum has great ideas, I just think it lacks the polish to be a truly fun game that I want to come back to consistently.
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Colosseum really struggles from Mt. Battle being absolute trash too.
It's not particularly hard to turn Colosseum into a great game, but XD really exposes it as a proof-of-concept spinoff.
It's not particularly hard to turn Colosseum into a great game, but XD really exposes it as a proof-of-concept spinoff.
this makes sense with the added context of the team that made Colosseum were all Dragon Quest people with limited familiarity in Pokemon. Dragon Quest loves forcing you to grind and subjecting you to random level spikes and encounters that are just designed to troll you.
I think XD is clearly a much better pokemon game than Colosseum is, and I don't think anybody really argues differently, but a part of me still prefers Colosseum because it's a bad pokemon game if that makes any sense lmao. I played XD first and then played Colosseum much later and there's just something about how jank, rigid, and bizarre it feels that I just vibe with. XD feels like an actual pokemon game, which is good, but I can get that feeling anywhere with any of the mainline games.
Here's mine:
-I've felt like BW2 out of all the Pokemon games felt like the best imo. Neo team Plasma goes full terrorist mode after everyone in Unova realize Ghetsis lied to everyone over Pokemon 'liberation', being able to challenge older characters in the past is fun, & the Champion Iris can kick your maw if you're not prepared.
-Rhyperior's design is pretty good, I understand why people hated it bc it was overcomplicated or bc it didn't live up the consistency design wise as opposed to Rhydon-esque designs such as Nidoking or Aggron. (Also bc Rhyperior hits like a truck)
-Personal favorite Eeveelution is Jolteon bc good electric types in Kanto are sparse, unless you find a Power Plant...
-I always found Bulbasaur much better in Firered, fun utility mon with a sleep move to make catching Pokemon easier.
-While the transition from 2-D to 3-D in Pokemon was inevitable as animating in 3-D is much less time consuming given the sheer number of Pokemon, Pokemon felt the Sonic curse that caused a downward slope of mixed quality.
-I've felt like BW2 out of all the Pokemon games felt like the best imo. Neo team Plasma goes full terrorist mode after everyone in Unova realize Ghetsis lied to everyone over Pokemon 'liberation', being able to challenge older characters in the past is fun, & the Champion Iris can kick your maw if you're not prepared.
-Rhyperior's design is pretty good, I understand why people hated it bc it was overcomplicated or bc it didn't live up the consistency design wise as opposed to Rhydon-esque designs such as Nidoking or Aggron. (Also bc Rhyperior hits like a truck)
-Personal favorite Eeveelution is Jolteon bc good electric types in Kanto are sparse, unless you find a Power Plant...
-I always found Bulbasaur much better in Firered, fun utility mon with a sleep move to make catching Pokemon easier.
-While the transition from 2-D to 3-D in Pokemon was inevitable as animating in 3-D is much less time consuming given the sheer number of Pokemon, Pokemon felt the Sonic curse that caused a downward slope of mixed quality.
i too enjoy making building in game teams even harder
