I think people should just be patient. In a week or so, there will be a cool option that may help community build and could impact the metagame. For now, business as usual.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
this set looks like it completely folds to Gliscor, and even if it didn't, being forced to tera to barely survive Kyu doesn't make it any kind of a relevant check in the current state of OU.
yeah, too many bad players like myself and CTC muddying the waters.
Encouraging us to speculate on the tweet which isn't a suspect but the only possible meta changes you're allowed to discuss are potential suspects.
I at this point actually do agree that uber drop discussion does get out of hand and people do reasonable discussion a disservice by discussing solgaleo lugia etc
But never discussing something once it does get banned once? LITERALLY 1984 lol I'm kidding seriously but it does seem biased? Respectfully
At this point that would mean we can't even discuss a potential tera blast ban as everyone knows redacted might happen as a result of that
Really not sure the goal of asking us to speculate on that tweet. Someone clarify if there's any obvious suggestion by it that doesn't break the above rules bc I'm not seeing it and can only assume the thread will go to hell with speculation
Respectfully
I at this point actually do agree that uber drop discussion does get out of hand and people do reasonable discussion a disservice by discussing solgaleo lugia etc
But never discussing something once it does get banned once? LITERALLY 1984 lol I'm kidding seriously but it does seem biased? Respectfully
At this point that would mean we can't even discuss a potential tera blast ban as everyone knows redacted might happen as a result of that
Really not sure the goal of asking us to speculate on that tweet. Someone clarify if there's any obvious suggestion by it that doesn't break the above rules bc I'm not seeing it and can only assume the thread will go to hell with speculation
Respectfully
Thanks that helps. Alt ladder?
Nah, and I am not really going to play games about what it is or isn’t as I cannot leak. Just think it will be hype and a few content creators seem to agree.
I find it silly to try and egg people on or anything like that. Srn’s inclusion of it was mostly in jest.
I think it’s cool for people to discuss Tera Blast or the actual things going on in the metagame itself. We see a ton of new Pokemon and ripples to existing archetypes going around right now.
Just think it’s lame we see people spending all day trying to tear others down or spread misinformation like the Kingambit thing when my vote/posts are public lol
I also think there will be a time when retests are more open to discussion. I just don’t think now is the time seeing as it ends up in pages of clutter, people bickering with each other, hostility, and no productive outcome in the current time. We have tried a dozen times over now. So letting it take a backseat and actually moderating the topics at hand is just the job of moderators.
Believe it or not, SS and SM metagame discussion threads were really just about team compositions and cool sets. Tiering discussion altogether was barred from non-suspect threads for the vast majority of Smogon’s history. I didn’t like this and we have been way more open this generation, which imo has been a big success as we see and hear from so many passionate posters. But all good things only stay good if regulated properly.
Believe it or not, SS and SM metagame discussion threads were really just about team compositions and cool sets. Tiering discussion altogether was barred from non-suspect threads for the vast majority of Smogon’s history. I didn’t like this and we have been way more open this generation, which imo has been a big success as we see and hear from so many passionate posters. But all good things only stay good if regulated properly.
Well, after Finchinator's post about helping the community build/grow with content creators thinking it'll be hype, I suspect the OU Council is increasing the role of PokeTubers within the wider community, which may or may not result in the community growing with increased ladder activity. Perhaps there may even be direct links to PokeTuber's channels on Smogon. I guess Finch's gamble would be that the growth of the community would outweigh the increase in uninformed posts.
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It’s not this
the onus was on the playerbase and not the council because it was a public suspect test? what were you expecting them to do, hold a quickban vote? my point is that a lot of y'all complaining about the state of the tier haven't even bothered going for reqs yet still feel like blaming the council for everything. it's one thing to be upset about the current state of the tier but it's another thing to blame finch for something he had no direct control over when you yourself hadn't voted when you were well within your right to do so. it's not like kyurem or gliscor were broken enough to be banned unanimously like GF was. so i am once again asking what exactly was stopping you from going for reqs and voting ban on kyurem and gliscor?
This you?
Because apparently ladder games isn't a metric of "SV OU bad" (it is), when is the next survey coming up? I don't understand the hold up.
I don't understand why it's strange to grasp the revolutionary concept that people don't want to grind games that they don't find enjoyable especially when the directive is to gate-keep more people with harder requirements. I care about this game but i'm not going to grind away for hours at something I don't enjoy for no material return. I also don't like how you seemingly equate getting reqs as a way to qualify giving people a say on tiering. People who play the game more, aren't inherently more wise in tiering decisions. People who don't gain suspects aren't all inherently no knowing numbskulls. I gained reqs for the first GF suspect (with a better record than most I might add) solely because I wanted to be able to qualify as a "qualified" voter on the next survey. Stop painting things as so black and white - people have other things to do than grind at a game they might not even enjoy for hours/days at a time.
Lurk more is literally an infraction that moderators have to give out to posts in violation of the rules. I only infract in extreme cases and instead offer public warnings frequently.This you?
This is not a "gotcha" -- it is literally me doing my job without punishing people
Thread re-opened and immediately caught on fire, GG
Anyways, an interesting trend last month was the rise of Corviknight usage, especially in the 1825+ range, seeing higher usage than staples like Iron Valiant, Gliscor, and Samurott-Hisui. What do you think of Corviknight? Still a Gholdengo victim? Secretly the best Pokemon in OU?
Anyways, an interesting trend last month was the rise of Corviknight usage, especially in the 1825+ range, seeing higher usage than staples like Iron Valiant, Gliscor, and Samurott-Hisui. What do you think of Corviknight? Still a Gholdengo victim? Secretly the best Pokemon in OU?
and your solution here is to do nothing and whine about it when things don't go your way? like i have previously stated, there is no shame in not being able to get reqs, regardless of what the reasoning is. i'm not exactly sure why you're trying to spin me as some sort of gatekeeper when i have already made it clear that i do not think less of people who don't get reqs. it only becomes a problem when you decide to throw a tantrum about not getting what you wanted instead of accepting the result like a normal person.
I think Corviknight is cool. U-Turn ftw. Never running a non U-Turn set. More usage than Valiant and Hamu is insane though, what the heck is happening in
turns out that being quite possibly the best check to SD gliscor in the game (though obviously not by itself) does get you quite far. corviknight can also check kingambit and non-taunt RM with iron defense sets, in addition to walling other physical attackers like great tusk and dragonite. it has quite a few flaws obviously but i'd say it's a very good pokemon in the current meta, but it is surprising that it's seeing more high-ladder usage than gliscor itself
There are plenty of avenues to take, but the narrative is to be patient. Off the top of my head there are move suspects, mon suspects, uber drops, survey - need I go on? It's not my responsibility to come up with recommendations, but even't If can't, me voicing my dissatisfaction of the tier is whining? Do you guys only choose to look at the positives and come down on those who oppose your thoughts? Yes i'm throwing a tantrum and picking fights because I 1) am going against the grain of authority 2) I'm using statistics (if ladder and survey doesn't count than what on earth does??) to back my points 3) you misperceive my dissatisfaction of the tier with me not accepting results. When did I say that? I simply stated 55%+ voted for something that didn't happen. I was the first person to defend losetoru even though the result went against what I wanted - not you, not any of the mods, me. I want tera banned but am I calling for it now? No, I said it was too late. I don't recall spearheading a rebellion to re-suspect Kyureum?
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lit matches, gasoline, some saying or the other
Personally I think there are 3 possibilities.
1. New survey. Probably not until next year.
2. Tournament. Maybe but I don't know how that helps the entire community.
3. Some new qol change (probably for teambuilder). I hope this. Though pokemon showdown is intuitive and has plenty of options to make playing the game easier I am sure there are ways that it can be improved. Any change that makes the game easier/better is appreciated.
Move suspects are another policy shift that likely won't happen mid gen but I'm hopeful it can be addressed for next gen, maybe. Uber drops and mon suspects need community support that aren't present rn.
As much as I hate it, if you don't have any established results in SV OU and you voice your dissatisfaction of it, most people are gonna think you're whining/don't know the tier/skill issue/etc. That's just the social reality of the community. For better or worse, we value skill first. You're totally free to voice your dissatisfaction of SV OU, but it will be perceived as whining. Actively playing the tier+voicing dissatisfaction is quite acceptable tho! E.g. LOOR's post
1) I'm a mod here that hates tera and loves/hates sv ou. I assure you mods are not silencing dissent or w/e lol I am dissent
2) Ladder stats are multifactorial for reasons that have already been pointed out. You can't pin down "sv ou bad bc ladder dead" when there's other factors at play. Our latest surveys are wildly outdated and aren't really relevant rn either, which is why another one is on the way.
3) Cool
You can either be an sv ou hater and not play sv ou --> you aren't taken seriously or be an sv ou hater and play sv ou-->be taken seriously (or just don't play, don't post here, live a happier life).
Enough.
This "us vs. them" mentality is not only perplexing, but beyond uncalled for. Aside from the fact that this is the most transparent and inclusive that the tiering process for OU has ever been, there is absolutely nothing to gain from villainizing Finchinator, the mod team, and the council. You are more than welcome to express distaste toward the status quo; never once this generation has anybody's voice been censored. But claiming as such is not just blatantly untrue, but does literally nothing but foster division and vitriol across the userbase. It leads to the exact state the thread is currently in: chaotic, angry, and completely unfocused.
If you want to create a dialogue about our process, I deeply implore you to reach out to me or anybody else in the council. Never once have we turned our head to someone who has a good-faith thought or complaint. We may disagree with you, but your voice will still be heard. It always will be; if you extend us courtesy, you will receive it in turn.
This is where the discussion will end. Further comments and one-liners relating to it will be deleted. If you have any more thoughts regarding our process or about how we manage the forum, please PM them to the council or the mod team respectively.
This "us vs. them" mentality is not only perplexing, but beyond uncalled for. Aside from the fact that this is the most transparent and inclusive that the tiering process for OU has ever been, there is absolutely nothing to gain from villainizing Finchinator, the mod team, and the council. You are more than welcome to express distaste toward the status quo; never once this generation has anybody's voice been censored. But claiming as such is not just blatantly untrue, but does literally nothing but foster division and vitriol across the userbase. It leads to the exact state the thread is currently in: chaotic, angry, and completely unfocused.
If you want to create a dialogue about our process, I deeply implore you to reach out to me or anybody else in the council. Never once have we turned our head to someone who has a good-faith thought or complaint. We may disagree with you, but your voice will still be heard. It always will be; if you extend us courtesy, you will receive it in turn.
This is where the discussion will end. Further comments and one-liners relating to it will be deleted. If you have any more thoughts regarding our process or about how we manage the forum, please PM them to the council or the mod team respectively.
I only lurk in this thread and only play casually now, but wanted to talk about Scizor (mostly to change the topic).
Scizor @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Fairy / Water / Fire / Steel
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe (or a fatter spread if you need to survive some KO benchmarks)
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Close Combat / Knock Off
- U-turn
I personally like playing with Scizor because it's such a unique Pokemon and (mostly) reliable in every generation. Currently, the CB and the LO + SD sets are the only ones listed for OU, but the pivot set seems (on paper) like one that compresses multiple roles well. Scizor's main selling point is a STAB Technician BP, so IMO the other three moves are highly customizable. Its typing gels well with other popular VoltTurn pivots and has multiple opportunities to spam Knock early on when positioned correctly.
I'm probably gonna play around with this set and see what does and doesn't work on it, but I wanted to see what other people's takes are on this set.
Scizor @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Fairy / Water / Fire / Steel
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe (or a fatter spread if you need to survive some KO benchmarks)
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Close Combat / Knock Off
- U-turn
I personally like playing with Scizor because it's such a unique Pokemon and (mostly) reliable in every generation. Currently, the CB and the LO + SD sets are the only ones listed for OU, but the pivot set seems (on paper) like one that compresses multiple roles well. Scizor's main selling point is a STAB Technician BP, so IMO the other three moves are highly customizable. Its typing gels well with other popular VoltTurn pivots and has multiple opportunities to spam Knock early on when positioned correctly.
I'm probably gonna play around with this set and see what does and doesn't work on it, but I wanted to see what other people's takes are on this set.
I like the idea! Scizor's Bullet Punch has a very concrete niche in the tier right now, and this is a pretty solid way to lean into that utility as well as Scizor's ability to force switches reliably. Personally, I would go for Knock Off instead of Close Combat since I can foresee this set struggling with Rocky Helmet and Pokemon like Zapdos that would otherwise capitalize on its gameplan. Having that as a option can let it operate more fluidly in the early/mid-game on hazard stacking structures and pick off bulkier Bullet Punch checks in the lategame. To that effect, I think Tera Steel is the most tantalizing choice for your Tera, and also because I don't see many situations where you would really want to defensively Tera Scizor when part of its niche is its defensive profile. I could see Electric or Fire if you want to avoid Static or Flame Body and cinch an SD though.
Based on Finch's tweet, "gamble" the future of OU and "movement" probably just means that OU's suspecting Kingambit.
Yes, but not increasingly. I have been beating this dead horse for awhile now. Gen 9 accelerated setup sweepers, especially those with QD/DD. They are inherently closer to the line just because of the gen 9 mechanics like Tera, BE, etc. Further development is only a matter of course when the movepools some of these mons get are more than good enough with the power boosts they can get.
My other dead horse is Roaring Moon in particular, which I keep trying to tell people isn't just a Tera Flying Acro mon. Ground, Fairy, Steel, Fire, Dragon, Electric, and Ghost are all viable. It's the glass cannon version Gouging Fire's DD + BE. Moon is faster, stronger, and frailer. But it is actually bulkier than people think, especially on the special side.
was kinda hoping it would be a teraless ladder but seems like that's been shot down. oh well.
All I can think of now is some change to PS like showdex being integrated or something like tera preview being tested for a little bit. Also a change to suspect reqs is pretty likely but I don't think it'd be worth a whole mystery tweet+1 week of "guess what we're gonna do" just for that ngl.
finch already shut down the idea that it would be a suspect. Even if it was it would 100% not be gambit ngl