Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Quick points, firstly, I updated the list with Ojama's suggestions, since the general consensus was that it was an excellent list that summarized the thoughts of many players.

As a moderator however, I want people to cut down on the one sentence posts please, or just the "I agree" ones. Make sure your posts actually ADD to the discussion. I also want to stop this "What if Avalugg was a rock type" discussion, as its just derailing the thread.
 
ginganinja said:
Quick points, firstly, I updated the list with Ojama's suggestions, since the general consensus was that it was an excellent list that summarized the thoughts of many players.

As a moderator however, I want people to cut down on the one sentence posts please, or just the "I agree" ones. Make sure your posts actually ADD to the discussion. I also want to stop this "What if Avalugg was a rock type" discussion, as its just derailing the thread.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the heads up. I'm glad to see the thread getting some progress done. I'm not sure if you saw an earlier post, but I just wanted to bring it to your attention, as it would really make the first page less of a block of text and looks a lot more appealing:

{Link To Post}
 
As of yet MAnectric is currently un ranked. I think after an initial period of anti hype for the lightning dog a lot of players have begun to adopt the thing.

Manectric is a truly fantastic volt switcher, it is so fast and has just the right coverage movepool as well as power and ability to really put the squeeze on the opponent generating momentum. It switches pretty well into a bullet punching or swords dancing lucario, it switches into scizor bullet punches, it switches into talonflame's brave birds, it can really punish anything electric weak and thanks to speed forces the opponent into a position where they either have to die to volt switch, switch and forfeit momentum or switch to their ground type only to be greatly threatened by overheat or hidden power ice. Manectric is alsovery good at punishing volt switches, absorbing it with lightning rod before evolving and packing a real punch at +1. Together with Landorus-therian they shut down a lot of physical offense with their pivoting. Meganectric's ridiculous speed is pretty valuable as well, it doesnt have the power to clean all but weakened teams, but it puts a pretty bad squeeze on anything slow and weak to it.

Of course not without flaws meganectric is nothing without teammates as it is just too weak to do real damage, and relies on hit and run with volt switch spam, as well the fact that it is pretty frail if it facing something that is not intimidated. As well as this intimidate helps common defiant userl; Bisharp. Opportunity cost of mega slot, etc can be considered as well.

Id' stick it right in the B-ranking based on the descirption. The intimidate niche, the anti offensive steel niche that pairs well with fairies, the powerful volt switch all pretty solid merits.
 
bstella1 said:
I would argue that Malamar deserves C. Topsy-Turvy and Contrary Superpower are both truly amazing moves, and Contrary has other niche uses as well such as foiling King's Shield (taking away Aegislash's one option for handling Malamar, leaving it helpless) and Sticky Web. Obviously it's held back by bad stats and typing but it has its uses.
Click to expand...

Malamar is just way too much trouble than he's worth to be C rank for several reasons. If you see a Malamar you already know exactly what it's going to do: spam Superpower. This makes it incredibly predictable and it's almost never going to find chances to spam Superpower when it's slow and its defensive typing leaves it with one uncommon immunity and no resistances whatsoever. Going through some of your other points:

-Topsy-Turvy is pretty worthless in Singles imo because, chances are, if something has already set up a SD/DD/QD what-have-you then it's just going to nuke Malamar from orbit before it even gets Topsy-Turvy off.
-Sticky Web just isn't widespread enough to get any consistent use out of it.
-Fucking over Aegislash is fine and dandy but there are so many pokemon that deal with Aegislash that bring much more to the table than Malamar does.

D rank suits Malamar just fine. Though if I had it my way it would be E rank along with the other shitty gimmick mons.
 
I would like to nominate sunkern for s rank rhyperior for B/C+ Rank
Pros
As it is a very reliable SR beating every magic bouncer. Makes a great physical tank and check to many top tier physical threats such as mega lucario terrakion and d-nite further more he is a great physical attacker has stab edquake and has acess to megahorn to defeat a majority of physical threats and psychic/dark type switch ins. Also he got assault vest this gen allowing him to sponge special attacks and counter some special attackers.

Cons
His horrid special defense even after assault vest. His lack of recovery allowing him to be worn down easily. His double edge typing giving him gold offensive pressure but a horrible 5x weakness to grass and water which are two common special attacking types.

Overall rhyperior is a solid team member but requires some support to be used effectively.
 
I think reuniclus deserves the B rank as he has a great niche as a status absorber with magic guard and setup sweeper with trick room calm mind sets though his poor mono psychic typing leaves him with significant weaknesses to both u turn and pursuit.

Also porygon2 deserves a mention as a C Pokemon only for the reason that his defensive and special defensive sets are eclipsed by the pink blobs and the spiky steels. But he is able to function well as a mixed wall with eviolite boosted defensive stats. Though his utility move pool leaves a lot to be desired.
 
6feetunder said:
What is Florges doing in B-rank? It is an inferior Sylveon, full stop. If it needs a rank at all, it should be no higher than C.
Click to expand...

I agree 1000000000% Florges has no business in B Rank. Her Abilities are completely useless in single battles and extremely situational in doubles, not to mention she has terrible HP for a Wish user, which also makes her lack of physical bulk incurable, unlike Sylveon which has okay physical bulk with max investment. She does the same things Sylveon does but Sylveon is a million times better and is certainly more adorable, even it's ability, Cute Charm, is more useful than Florges'. She also has limited movepool options which leaves her wayyy too predictable. The only, absolutely only way it isn't entirely outclassed by Sylveon is if you run Aromatherapy, but you can still get Heal Bell on Sylveon post-Pokebank so even there she will be outclassed.
 
I believe that Roserade should be an A-. It has impressive special stats and decent speed as well. It's movepool includes self-sustaining moves like Giga-Drain, and status moves like sleep powder and Toxic. However, It is held back by it's poor physical stats and lack of HP.
 
6feetunder said:
What is Florges doing in B-rank? It is an inferior Sylveon, full stop. If it needs a rank at all, it should be no higher than C.
Click to expand...
I support this, even after I kinda flubbed my argument with Florges. Sylveon is superior in almost every way with a better ability [Pixilate], a better STAB [Hyper Voice], and boasting more HP for bigger wishes. Also unlike Florges, Sylveon can afford to run an offensive set with Calm mind as Sylveon boasts perfect coverage with Shadow Ball/Hyper Voice/Psychic or Psyshock.
 
Florges should not be B rank or even listed in first place. Its completely outclassed by sylveon (a B mon itself) and by outclassed i mean, theres no reason to use it over sylveon ever. Slowbro and jellicent deserves more love. Theyre both fantastic bulky waters that are capable of checking several threats. Slowbro has that sexy regenerator+slack off combo and great offensive movepool that prevents it from being setup fodder while jellicent has the classic recover, can spinblock and even shut down most physical attackers with will-o-wisp. Being able to check most fighting types and swift swim users (those are going to be storming the meta pretty soon) is pretty great. Individually you have slowbro sheer physical bulk that allows it to deal with most dd dragons and sd excadrill while jellicent special bulk makes it a decent switch in to the latwins. They deserve at least B+ rank imo. Btw the terminology for megas on the op is extremely confusing. You have things like ''mega pinsir'' then you scroll a little and you find ''mawile (mega)'' then theres ''gyarados (base forme)'' (?_?). Just make things that completely depend on the mega to be useful get the tag while things that dont are named by their regular form (like PK Gaming had stated).
 
Flamebot said:
K? Burn still damages you. Specialy oriented isn't the greatest (Goodra, blissey, and well practicaly anything that can take a hit from it) Mixed you then die to EQ like what 100% of the time coming from almost any pokemon that Usally runs EQ (Mamoswine and Garchomp, the odd Dragonite that carries EQ to i think). Weakness policy (Well I got nothing besides like switcheroo for that). If you lack King shield (which I've seen a few sets that do) you don't have much bulk at all. And Guess what? They can switch to. Encore is another move that (can) screw it up, but Viable encore users are like what? Wobbefet? Yes, it has diffrent set that deal with diffrent things, cant you say the same thing about the majority of ou tho? Aegislash isn't a sweeper? Then what is it? The only other thing I could see it as is a Pivot (that can sweep xD). Also I may have mentioned Mamoswine, doesn't mean I think it should be in on a Aegislash xD.
Click to expand...

Also guess what? If you switch in Rotom-W, I can switch out! Mega Venusaur, Gastrodon, whatever, I don't have to fight Rotom-W or Sableye with Aegislash at all.
Click to expand...

Aegislash isn't just a sweeper. He's a fast sweeper, bulky pivot, pivot wallbreaker, and bulky attacker all in one. If you are trying to fight EQers one-on-one without Weakness Policy, you are really, really dumb. If you try to fight Rotom-W one-on-one with a physical set, you are still really, really dumb. Sacred Sword mains Blissey, and Weakness Policy Autotomize is for late-game where Blissey is weakened anyways. Also Aegislash is very bulky without King's Shield, it can take one hit with 60/150/150 defenses, and it can adopt a hit-and-run playstyle easily. It also forces lots of switches, as you said. This means the switchin, if they are not prepared for the wallbreaker, will be maimed. Gliscor takes ~70-80% from LO Shadow Ball. Rotom-W takes over 80%. Aegislash's versatility, along with how hard it hits, keep it solid S-Rank.
 
I feel like Landorous-T deserves to be in A+. It's very similar to Rotom-W in how it checks some the most dangerous threats in the tier while keeping up momentum with U-turn.
 
Flamebot said:
K? Burn still damages you. Specialy oriented isn't the greatest (Goodra, blissey, and well practicaly anything that can take a hit from it) Mixed you then die to EQ like what 100% of the time coming from almost any pokemon that Usally runs EQ (Mamoswine and Garchomp, the odd Dragonite that carries EQ to i think). Weakness policy (Well I got nothing besides like switcheroo for that). If you lack King shield (which I've seen a few sets that do) you don't have much bulk at all. And Guess what? They can switch to. Encore is another move that (can) screw it up, but Viable encore users are like what? Wobbefet? Yes, it has diffrent set that deal with diffrent things, cant you say the same thing about the majority of ou tho? Aegislash isn't a sweeper? Then what is it? The only other thing I could see it as is a Pivot (that can sweep xD). Also I may have mentioned Mamoswine, doesn't mean I think it should be in on a Aegislash xD.
Click to expand...

I don't mean to sound condescending, but it honestly does not seem like you've used many of Aegislash's sets extensively nor have you played against experienced players utilising Aegislash well. What is this sweeper or bust mentality? Aegislash is probably one of, if not THE best breakers of physical walls in the game. LO or heck, even Spooky plate Shadowball from Aegislash absolutely rips through Rotom-W, Gliscor, Skarmory, Lando-T etc. etc. while Chansey and Blissey don't enjoy Sacred Sword at all. It requires zero support to aid its function and in return, punches massive holes for the rest of your (perhaps physical sweepers?) to take advantage of every free switch in it gets (which is plenty given its fantastic bulk and excellent defensive typing). It's solid S rank even with just its Wallbreaking/Pivot set, let alone Automatise Mixed Sweeper and the other plethora of sets it can run.
 
AOPSUser said:
Aegislash isn't just a sweeper. He's a fast sweeper, bulky pivot, pivot wallbreaker, and bulky attacker all in one. If you are trying to fight EQers one-on-one without Weakness Policy, you are really, really dumb. If you try to fight Rotom-W one-on-one with a physical set, you are still really, really dumb. Sacred Sword mains Blissey, and Weakness Policy Autotomize is for late-game where Blissey is weakened anyways. Also Aegislash is very bulky without King's Shield, it can take one hit with 60/150/150 defenses, and it can adopt a hit-and-run playstyle easily. It also forces lots of switches, as you said. This means the switchin, if they are not prepared for the wallbreaker, will be maimed. Gliscor takes ~70-80% from LO Shadow Ball. Rotom-W takes over 80%. Aegislash's versatility, along with how hard it hits, keep it solid S-Rank.
Click to expand...

I know not to stay in on EQ and Rotom W xD. I kinda see your point tho (Bad example but like Blaziken somewhat? Blaziken could run so many sets iirc and well to tho was frail and couldn't take amd attack well sorta?). But Aegislash does get walled depending on the set (I believe?
 
Flamebot said:
I know not to stay in on EQ and Rotom W xD. I kinda see your point tho (Bad example but like Blaziken somewhat? Blaziken could run so many sets iirc and well to tho was frail and couldn't take amd attack well sorta?). But Aegislash does get walled depending on the set (I believe?
Click to expand...

If nothing could wall Aegislash, it'd be a contender for ubers. We're saying it's S ranked, not the God of all Pokemon.
 
Flamebot said:
I know not to stay in on EQ and Rotom W xD. I kinda see your point tho (Bad example but like Blaziken somewhat? Blaziken could run so many sets iirc and well to tho was frail and couldn't take amd attack well sorta?). But Aegislash does get walled depending on the set (I believe?
Click to expand...

Blaziken only ran one set lol. But yeah, Aegislash is walled based on the set. Gliscor walls the common bulky SD variant. Mandibuzz trolls the mixed set unless it has Head Smash>Iron Head, in which case Sylveon can wall it. And so on. But you have to figure out the set first.
 
Regarding Avalugg, this may just be me but I really don't care much for it at all. Despite that amazing physical bulk, I think Avalugg still has a ton of problems. First off, any special attack absolutely wrecks Avalugg, and there are a number of special attackers like Gengar, Greninja, and Shadow Ball Aegislash. Ice is also a really bad defensive typing, it has four weaknesses, most of which are common, and especially to SR. Avalugg doesn't really make a good spinner, although it has nice physical bulk, its typing and special defense still let it down, and it's also incredibly weak to the hazards it's supposed to be removing. It can't really beat any Ghost except Gourgeist or Trevenant, since Gengar and Aegislash can beat it one on one due to its really bad special bulk and typing. Avalugg is way too slow to get anything done and it also has to rely on Avalanche as a STAB move, which is weak if the opponent doesn't attack.

If I've missed anything about Avalugg, go ahead and say so, but for all those reasons I think Avalugg is just not viable, and I think it should remain unranked because it really is bad.
 
sonnytapman said:
Well, I'll be the reverse of this and say that Manetric is not very good because his flaws out weigh his good points. He gets OHKOed by any Earthquake from any pokemon with good Attack. The only thing he has going for him is Intimidate, his speed, and Volt switch. other than that, It's only passable. I'll say c-, c at most.
Click to expand...

You can't just say that it has a bunch of flaws, point out only one flaw, and declare it C rank just like that. Also to say that it dies to any Earthquake may be true for 252/252 M-Manectric but not for 100 Def/252 SpA/156 Spe. Ideally it will be partnered up with Landorus-T or Gyarados so it will never have to take these Earthquakes in the first place but here are some Earthquakes it survives after 100 def and Intimidate.

Garchomp
-1 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 100 Def Mega Manectric: 234-276 (83.2 - 98.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Salamence
-1 252 Atk Salamence Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 100 Def Mega Manectric: 160-190 (56.9 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Salamence Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 100 Def Mega Manectric: 208-247 (74 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Terrakion
-1 252 Atk Terrakion Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 100 Def Mega Manectric: 156-184 (55.5 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 100 Def Mega Manectric: 232-274 (82.5 - 97.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Dragonite
-1 252+ Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 100 Def Mega Manectric: 174-206 (61.9 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Gyarados
-1 252+ Atk Gyarados Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 100 Def Mega Manectric: 166-196 (59 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ AtkMold Breaker Mega Gyarados Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 100 Def Mega Manectric: 194-230 (69 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Mega Charizard X
-1 252 Atk Mega Charizard X Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 100 Def Mega Manectric: 156-184 (55.5 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Mega Charizard X Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 100 Def Mega Manectric: 234-276 (83.2 - 98.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Obviously there will always be some that it will never be able to take like Adamant Excadrill's, both Landorus formes, and Diggersby tho but every Earthquake? Come on nigga.
 
Last edited:
SmashBrosBrawl said:
Florges should not be B rank or even listed in first place. Its completely outclassed by sylveon (a B mon itself) and by outclassed i mean, theres no reason to use it over sylveon ever. Slowbro and jellicent deserves more love. Theyre both fantastic bulky waters that are capable of checking several threats. Slowbro has that sexy regenerator+slack off combo and great offensive movepool that prevents it from being setup fodder while jellicent has the classic recover, can spinblock and even shut down most physical attackers with will-o-wisp. Being able to check most fighting types and swift swim users (those are going to be storming the meta pretty soon) is pretty great. Individually you have slowbro sheer physical bulk that allows it to deal with most dd dragons and sd excadrill while jellicent special bulk makes it a decent switch in to the latwins. They deserve at least B+ rank imo. Btw the terminology for megas on the op is extremely confusing. You have things like ''mega pinsir'' then you scroll a little and you find ''mawile (mega)'' then theres ''gyarados (base forme)'' (?_?). Just make things that completely depend on the mega to be useful get the tag while things that dont are named by their regular form (like PK Gaming had stated).
Click to expand...

Agreeing with this; for further confirmation on Slowbro (One of the most useful bulkymons after Mega Venusaur imo) leaving these here:

+2 252 Atk Mega Lucario Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 256-302 (64.9 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Lucario Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 222-262 (56.3 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Slowbro Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Lucario: 130-154 (46.2 - 54.8%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO

Slowbro isn't a sitting duck against the biggest offensive threat in the tier. I know I didn't show +2 Dark Pulse but I figure no one in their right mind would use a Slowbro against that.

4 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Blade: 150-177 (46.2 - 54.6%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 110-132 (27.9 - 33.5%) -- 89.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 218-258 (55.3 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Not bothering with Shadow Ball because obviously it's getting wrecked.
My main point here is that Slowbro is physically bulky enough to deal with threats that are supposed to not have a hard time getting around it, when in reality Regenerator + Slack Off is lengthening Slowbro's life to the point that he actually starts putting decent dents into various mons. Not like he's S material, but a solid B+ minimum.
 
(This is my first actual post, so I hope i'm doing this right)
I'd like to suggest a nominee:

Aerodactyl(Mega) ===> B+/A Rank: Aerodactyl is already known for its high base 130 speed, somewhat decent defenses at 80/65/75 and a base attack of 105. I feel that it's attack is what held it back before, but in Mega Form with a hard hitting 135 base Attack and huge 150 base Speed, this pokemon can do work, and do work very well. With 80/85/95 bulk, this thing can devastate with little to no defensive support. Setting in a Light Clay Light Screen before hand would make this thing hard to 1HKO with special attacks, and it's typing really leaves it with 2 major physical weaknesses: Steel and Rock, both of which are most of the time slow. Granted it's ability Tough Claws is almost completely wasted on STAB moves, since it learns no Rock moves with Physical contact, and Acrobatics can't be done in normal cirumstances to its fullest extent with a Mega, leaving Mega Aerodactyl with Aerial Ace, Sky Drop, and Fly, this ability gives a much needed boost to the elemental fang moves and Steel Head, an ever important move to have with Fairy Types like Florges completely walling Special Attacks. I've done multiple sweeps using Mega Aerodactyl, and with my Florges setting up Light Screen Before hand, this prehistoric monster has survived Scald from a Greninja with slightly under half HP. Although it's ability requires some thinking when creating a moveset, this Mega is flat out deadly.
 
sonnytapman said:
Your getting off topic. I'm just saying that MNetric would be better if it wasn't weak to common moves.
Click to expand...
You know what else are common moves? Brave Bird. Bullet Punch. Electric attacks. Mega Pinsir's Return/Quick Attack (and its Earthquake, forgot to put that one on the list). Mega Manectric can switch into any of them with ease. Saying its bad just because it can't take a thousand Earthquakes to the face is on par with saying dragons are shit because they can't take an Ice Beam.

sonnytapman said:
No, I would like my mons to be able to survive for more than 2 turns. Is that too much to ask?
Click to expand...
You must not like using most sweepers then.
 
sonnytapman said:
No, I would like my mons to be able to survive for more than 2 turns. Is that too much to ask?
Click to expand...
What you like isn't really important, Manectric being frail has nothing to do with his viability and role, which is a fast and stealthy killer. MLucario has similar defenses mind you. Gengar is frail, but he's been a major threat in OU ever since the beginning of Pokemon. Manectric does his role extremely well and outclasses Jolteon in almost every aspect and is a great hit and run pokemon that synergize's well with bulky teams. Both lowering an offensive threat's attack, then outspeeding and volt switching into a counter to the opponent's pokemon. He's kind of like a Rotom W. Mega Manectric is B+ AT LEAST.
 
sonnytapman said:
No, I would like my mons to be able to survive for more than 2 turns. Is that too much to ask?
Click to expand...
And it will, if you don't switch it into STAB Earthquakes. Is that too much to ask?

Oh yeah, it has base 135 Speed and Sp Attack. Its an attacker. The fact that it can take physical hits is just gravy.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top