Vitality (rain stall)

[ABNDT]

For my first foray into battling against actual humans, I assembled a defensive rain team. After a morning of testing, I believe it has potential, but there are also noticeable flaws (on top of my lack of field experience, of course). It doesn't seem to do well against other stall teams, and losing Dragonite often spells doom. I was hoping you guys could help me trim the fat:

Victory (Politoed) @ Leftovers
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Perish Song
- Protect

The rain-starter, of course. Perish song hasn't been as useful for forcing switches as I hoped, so I'm thinking of replacing it with Toxic.

Vendetta (Tentacruel) @ Black Sludge
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Protect

Spinner and secondary hazard-setter. Not sure how much there is to say about this guy. He's a basic utility Tentacruel.

Vexation (Milotic) @ Leftovers
Trait: Marvel Scale
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 SDef
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Dragon Tail
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Milotic has seemed surprisingly squishy. Nevertheless, I'd like to keep him on the team, as Dragon Tail has proven useful for disrupting sweepers--still need to get on it quickly, though, as, say, a +6 Toxicroak will rip Milotic, and the rest of the team, to shreds

Vengeance (Dragonite) @ Leftovers
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Sassy Nature
- Hurricane
- Thunder
- Earthquake
- Roost

Dragonite exists to deal with 'mons who could give the rest of the team trouble. Hurricane is for Grass, Thunder for Water, and Earthquake for Electric. The mixed set is occasionally able to catch players by surprise, taking a Nintails' Hidden Powe (Ice?) to KO with Earthquake, in one instance. He feels a bit lacking, but I'm not sure how to fix him.

Vigilance (Ferrothorn) @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 54 Def / 202 SDef
Impish Nature
- Power Whip
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed

So useful. Apart from laying hazards and punishing dragons for going into Outrage, he's also had a few opportunities to mangle an opposing spinner who got a little bit greedy. I'm perfectly content with Ferrothorn as-is, but if there's some missed room for improvement....

Valor (Jellicent) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Night Shade
- Recover
- Taunt

Spinblocker, vexer of Fighting-types, and, I've found, a decent anti-Dragon option when Ferrothorn is indisposed. Mixed feeling about Taunt. When it works, it really works, but how often is that? Not often enough that I'm convinced to keep Taunt over something else.

In terms of pitfalls I've encountered so far: Toxicroak, as mentioned before, becomes an enormous threat if Dragonite goes down. Shiftry is generally frightening even without sun support (team-sweepingly so), and a defensive core of Celebi and Porygon2 took everything I could throw at it.

 

[SomeDrunkRockLee]

All right, here goes. Let's start with toed.

Right now you're relying purely on toxic spikes for toxic, which is unreliable, are hard to keep up, and lack the ability to hit flying types and levitators, especially the omnipresent Rotom-W, who your team struggles with (Ferrothorn doesn't like to be tricked a scarf). In order to punish common politoed switch ins, I'd opt for Toxic > Ice Beam. The only thing that Ice Beam is really any better against is Celebi; toxic cripples Dragonite, especially bulky variants, for the match, and can really hurt Rotom-W and Jellicent, common politoed switch ins. You lose coverage against Celebi, but the ability to get damage output against bulky waters is crucial.

Tentacruel is the next order of business. I much prefer toxic to toxic spikes, allowing it to stop opposing set up and beat troublesome things like Volcanora (although you have Dragonite) without having to have prior set up; in general it's a more reliable way of inflicting status, but that's up to playstyle. It also allows you to beat common switch ins like Dragonite and Rotom-W. Frankly, Tentacruel should almost always be physically defensive, giving it the ability to counter scizor near perfectly and stay in against Tyranitar and others. I'd recommend an ev spread of 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 Spe with a bold nature.

I'm going to skip Milotic for now, I'll come back to her at the end.

You mention Dragonite feeling a bit lacking. There are two major ways to go about fixing this:
1.) Specially Defensive Dragonite with Hurricane/Roost/Thunder/Dragon Tail is quite common as a phazer for rain stall, but it's intended more for incurring passive damage from hazards than for true damage output.
2.) Sub-Roost Dragonite with Substitute / Roost / Thunder / Hurricane with an EV spread of 248 HP / 252 SAtk / 8 Spe is a powerful asset to a stall team, albeit a more offensive version. Notable for it's ability to substitute against and beat Ferrothorn, as well as to provide much more pressure against rain setters; note Vaporeon is still not a 2HKO, but can be taken down with confusion hax.

Ferrothorn is an interesting Pokemon, but I've always found it to be set up fodder for a lot of things. There's not much to improve here if you want to keep Thorn.

Jellicent:
Scald is an unreliable way of inflicting burn, taunt is situational, and night shade is generally outclassed by Shadow Ball. I'd put Shadow Ball > Night Shade and carry Wil-o-Wisp > Taunt. I'd also change the four special defense EVs to speed, enabling you to outspeed other Jellicent who don't run the four speed evs, as 4 SDef gets you nothing notable. Same thing for Dragonite and Politoed. Additionally, Dragonite should probably run 248 HP, since stealth rock weak Pokemon should generally run an odd HP stat.

Finally, Milotic: I'm quite tempted to take Milotic out entirely, whose outclassed by Pokemon like bulky gyarados and others. I'm also looking at your teams massive electricity weakness: 4 Pokemon weak, one neutral, and 1 resist; this means any electric type who has a coverage move for ferrothorn can pretty much sweep your team. While not providing phazing, I'm tempted to put Chansey > Milotic. Chansey provides much greater special bulk to your team, as well as usable physical bulk. Chansey also provides clerical capabilities with wish and heal bell, enabling you to keep your team healthy and fighting strong. In any case, you should probably get an electric type resist in this slot Chansey can beat any common electic type in OU, assuming you run toxic; the only exception is Trick from Rotom-W. Gastrodon and Latias are other options that popped to mind for this slot, but I dispelled them for various reasons. Anyway...

You should note that currently any team that runs Sub-Charge Beam Mangezone can take out at least two of your Pokemon, and if the team carries a proficient electric type sweeper (think Thundy-T or Jolteon) as well, they can easily sweep your team.

Chansey Set:

Chansey @ Eviolite
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 SDef
Bold Nature
- Wish
- Protect / Softboiled
- Heal Bell / Toxic
- Toxic / Seismic Toss

Keep it up, and good luck with the battling!

 

[ABNDT]

Thanks for the detailed notes!

Politoed: Toxic it is. Would you recommend ditching Perish Song as well, or do I just need to get more of a feel for it?

Tentacruel: Volcarona and Scizor haven't really threatened my team, but the more ways to deal with Rotom-W, the better. I'll remove the spikes.

Dragonite: The phazer set seems like it would be more useful, since it looks like replacing Milotic would otherwise leave me struggling against stat boosters.

Jellicent: Noted.

Ferrothorn: No changes, then.

Milotic: Shame to lose her, but I can't deny the point about the huge Electric weakness, and Electivire proved the point about coverage moves and Ferrothorn earlier today.

Chansey: Wish/Softboiled/Heal Bell/Toxic looks like the best moveset. It may be total Taunt bait, but I haven't seen that used much (so far). Thinking of powerful physical attacks and electricity, how does Chansey fare against Kyurem-B? If that's a bad matchup, no biggie. I ran into one earlier, and it wasn't too hard to stop.

Gastrodon/Latias: Mind telling me why they were deemed suboptimal?

 

[MutantDogPoo]

My main concern is that since you have 4 water types on your team, electric types in particular will be tough for your team to face, even more so if Dragonite gets hit with Stealth rock, with 4 weaknesses and only 1 resistance. Milotic and Jelicent really only benefit with a boosted scald.

Well, I think everyone has stressed that point enough, so I'll move on to other things.

I agree that the Specially defensive Phazing set for Dragonite is better, and that Chansey is superior to Milotic. Jellicent isn't really that necessary with Politoed and Tentacruel also all Physically defensive, so you could use something else. However, if spin blocking is very important, you should replace it with another defensive ghost type, such as possibly Sableye, who along with it's standard set, can use Prankster Trick Lagging tail to deal with fast sweepers.
On Tentacruel, I'd recommend you to keep Toxic Spikes: Politoed should have Toxic over Ice Beam to poison non-grounded foes, and Toxic Spikes is much more useful on a Stall Team like this.

Oh, and if you really wanted to, you could use Quagsire, with it's ability to counter Toxicroak and other set-up sweepers that threaten your team, with it's decent bulk and typing that gives it an immunity to electric. It can also troll the opponent with Yawn or Unaware Swagger. I also find that Ice Punch works better than Scald. But really, Quagsire isn't that good.

 

[ShootingStarmie]

Hi there. So I love Rain stall, and I think your team is pretty good, however I feel you have way too many bulky Water types. This leaves you really weak to things like Thundurus-T and Zapdos, because you're only switch in is Ferrothorn (which gets blasted by either Focus Blast, or Hheat Wave). I also feel they are quite redundent, as they basically all do the same job, so here are a few suggestions which I think will make your team better.

Replace Milotic with Wish Jirachi. Jirachi helps your weakness to Thundurus-T somewhat, since you have a good chance with paralyzing it with Body Slam, crippling it for the rest of the match. Jirachi also shares lovely synergy with Rain stall teams, and stops you from being beaten by Kyurem-B since nothing else can really touch it. This team also really like Wish, as Politoed wants it to help win the weather war, while Ferrothorn and Jellicent don't have the best recovery. Here's the set.

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 216 SDef / 252 HP / 40 Spd
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Iron Head
- Body Slam
- Protect / Stealth Rock

EVs are used to outspeed most Tyranitar, Scizor, and Adamant Breloom. Wish supports the team, and keeps Jirachi nice and healthy for the majority of the match. Iron Head has a great 60% chance of a flinch and is Jirachi's best STAB of choice. Body Slam provides a 60% chance to paraslyze your opponent, creating a great para-flinching combo. Body Slam is chosen over Thunder to hard Ground types like Garchomp that live to switch into Jirachi, as well as having 100% without Rain being up. The last move slot is up to you. Protect allows Jirachi to heal without worrying about Iron Head not flinching, while Jirachi also makes a great use of Stealth Rock, allowing you to run Gyro Ball on Ferrothorn.

My next suggestion would be for your Dragonite. I really think you should be running a Specially Defensive set, and you should replace Earth Quake with Dragon Tail. Now that Milotic has gone, you still need a phazer, and Dragonite fills this role perfectly.

I still fill that you have way too many Water types, so my last suggestion would be to replace Jellicent with Sableye. Sableye can still spin block, while also having reliable recovery and Taunt. Jellicent is only really useful because it shares excellent synergy with Ferrothorn, and you already have Tentacruel filling that role, so I feel it's quite redundant. Here's the set.

Sableye @ Leftovers
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Def
Careful Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Foul Play
- Taunt
- Recover

Other than that, I really like your team. Congrats and good luck.

 

[S0L1D G0LD]

Keep perish song on toad, it has a bit of a learning curve as to when to use it, though, key examples are against setting up sweepers that could destroy your team.

Im going to go out on a limb here and say Your dragonite feels lacking because it has no offensive values. As such, I second switching the set.

And I agree with what shootinstarmie said.