LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
also, minor correction, but thievul is rising from B- to B+, not B to B+. besides that, tysm for the hard work! i really appreciate it :)
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Resource SS ZU Viability Rankings v2 - Update @236
- Thread starter S1nn0hC0nfirm3d
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also, minor correction, but thievul is rising from B- to B+, not B to B+. besides that, tysm for the hard work! i really appreciate it :)
Great job to council on the VR update. Pretty big update after all that ZU went through recently from the new bans. The new art also looks really sweet.
Hippopotas: C- -> UR
And I thought Palpitoad was bad. Yeah I'm sorry but what is this thing doing on the VR? Sand isn't good right now, and even standalone, there are much, much better defensive Stealth Rock setters, such as Uxie, Coalossal, Piloswine, Shuckle, and more. It depends on Eviolite for good bulk, so if it gets Knocked, which is pretty common in the current metagame, it becomes much easier to take care of. It also gets wrecked by a lot of high-ranking mons even with Eviolite, like Flapple, Appletun, Wishiwashi, Frosmoth, Centiskorch, Shiftry and Altaria (the last of which it literally can't do anything to, and six of these mons rose in the new VR update). Seriously, get this thing off the VR.
Remember the time when some people considered Stonjourner banworthy? Man how the mighty have fallen. But anyway, I have something much more important to bring up:
Hippopotas: C- -> UR
And I thought Palpitoad was bad. Yeah I'm sorry but what is this thing doing on the VR? Sand isn't good right now, and even standalone, there are much, much better defensive Stealth Rock setters, such as Uxie, Coalossal, Piloswine, Shuckle, and more. It depends on Eviolite for good bulk, so if it gets Knocked, which is pretty common in the current metagame, it becomes much easier to take care of. It also gets wrecked by a lot of high-ranking mons even with Eviolite, like Flapple, Appletun, Wishiwashi, Frosmoth, Centiskorch, Shiftry and Altaria (the last of which it literally can't do anything to, and six of these mons rose in the new VR update). Seriously, get this thing off the VR.
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UR to Anywhere in CI think this plant deserves a place on the vr. Storm drain is a great abillity that helps it switch into choiced locked dangerous pokemon like basculin and clawitzer and gain a +1 boost in special attack and scare it out and repeat the process. It has great utility tools like toxic to spread status and be annoying with recover to stay longer on the field. It's bulk and typing allows it to check pokemon like kangaskhan and rotom, and rotom-s which are very good pokemon in this meta. It also has sweeping sets with rock polish and meteor beam. It gets setting up chances against waters that can't do anything to it but switch especially if choice locked. It's coverage is decent as it has earth power to hit steels and poisons and fires and meteor beam to hit ice and flying types like altaria rotom fan and frosmoth in addition to stab giga drain. Will try and get replays but overall I think it deserves a place on the vr.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1314861747 - Cradily does what's it supposed to do and absorbs basculins liquidation and eats a super power and 1v1s the uxie.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1320079444-0sdvj76n9u4nxahh13wfcipzie0atj1pw Cradily (and altaria) form a nice defensive core and beat the sun team.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1320004134-i4vr5kl4ng3bx2oh1w3e14v0q3q2r02pw Altough not the most viable team from the opp, cradily is able to sweep through it.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1320007869-m8ojuxkkzizr2l608oc91jc3d6xfa61pw A replay where cradily gets too many free turns to set up, and sweeps.
I wasn't able (basically forgot) to save alot, so this is what I got :(
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1320079444-0sdvj76n9u4nxahh13wfcipzie0atj1pw Cradily (and altaria) form a nice defensive core and beat the sun team.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1320004134-i4vr5kl4ng3bx2oh1w3e14v0q3q2r02pw Altough not the most viable team from the opp, cradily is able to sweep through it.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1320007869-m8ojuxkkzizr2l608oc91jc3d6xfa61pw A replay where cradily gets too many free turns to set up, and sweeps.
I wasn't able (basically forgot) to save alot, so this is what I got :(
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Largely agree with the recent VR update though I disagree on a couple things so I have a few noms of my own. Had some other things in mind though I'll wait til shifts since we are poised to lose at least a few things.
A- to A
This flew under the radar last VR update. Ferroseed has proved itself recently as a phenomenal blanket check to half the meta including top threats like Kanga, Basculin, Cinccino, and Frosmoth thanks to its typing and Iron Barbs. It does a great job at supporting teams with its plethora of utility options, spikes, rocks, leech seed, knock, twave, etc. While not necessarily its most common set, I think Leech Seed + Protect is very good rn, allowing Ferroseed to better wear down opponents and scouting moves from Choiced Sawk. Its defensive typing is very good atm also since Fire-types outside of Centiskorch are largely nonexistent and that hates coming in on Knock or Leech Seed. The Kanga Stack sample has showcased how effective this mon is currently.
(Darkvally) B+ to B / B-
Agreed on this dropping but should have dropped to B like Czim had originally nommed it for or potentially even lower. I agree on the point that it faces major competition from Alolan Persian and even Liepard who are faster and have more utility. While this competes heavily with Alolan Persian, its rise to prominence in the current meta also gives Silvally-Dark an even harder time breaking through teams. Additionally, this thing has severe 4MSS compared to the other Silvally-formes, making it much more inconsistent in comparison. It wants Iron Head for Fairies, Psychic Fangs for Fightings, U-turn / X-Scissor for opposing Dark-types, and Flame Charge to improve its Speed all at the same time. Compared to Silv-Ground who has near perfect edge quake coverage + U-Turn or Silv-Ghost that has less resists to worry about in general (not to mention these two have more useful resistances and immunities), it becomes increasingly difficult to justify Silv-Dark as opposed to Ground or Ghost.
C- to UR
I disagree on this getting ranked, the original nom for this was from early February before the Silvally Dragon ban and even pre-sneasal ban. I would have agreed with this nomination at the time but the meta has changed and now the fact that it loses to premier physical wallbreakers such as Centiskorch, Lycanroc, Sawk, etc makes it incredibly awkward to fit on a team. Reliance on its Heavy-duty Boots leaves it unable to effectively check Shiftry as well. Avalugg on paper has a niche on stall as a physically defensive wall with Rapid Spin utility but competes heavily with Pyuku, Tangela, Altaria, etc who can handle some or all of those physical wallbreakers much more consistently. If you want a spinner for stall, even something like Cryogonal is more effective, actually being able to pressure Qwilfish because of Freeze Dry while synergizing well with the more prevalent physical walls common on stall. I feel like the niche it has is so incredibly specific (if not essentially nonexistent at this point) that it doesn't deserve to be ranked.
A- to A This flew under the radar last VR update. Ferroseed has proved itself recently as a phenomenal blanket check to half the meta including top threats like Kanga, Basculin, Cinccino, and Frosmoth thanks to its typing and Iron Barbs. It does a great job at supporting teams with its plethora of utility options, spikes, rocks, leech seed, knock, twave, etc. While not necessarily its most common set, I think Leech Seed + Protect is very good rn, allowing Ferroseed to better wear down opponents and scouting moves from Choiced Sawk. Its defensive typing is very good atm also since Fire-types outside of Centiskorch are largely nonexistent and that hates coming in on Knock or Leech Seed. The Kanga Stack sample has showcased how effective this mon is currently.
Agreed on this dropping but should have dropped to B like Czim had originally nommed it for or potentially even lower. I agree on the point that it faces major competition from Alolan Persian and even Liepard who are faster and have more utility. While this competes heavily with Alolan Persian, its rise to prominence in the current meta also gives Silvally-Dark an even harder time breaking through teams. Additionally, this thing has severe 4MSS compared to the other Silvally-formes, making it much more inconsistent in comparison. It wants Iron Head for Fairies, Psychic Fangs for Fightings, U-turn / X-Scissor for opposing Dark-types, and Flame Charge to improve its Speed all at the same time. Compared to Silv-Ground who has near perfect edge quake coverage + U-Turn or Silv-Ghost that has less resists to worry about in general (not to mention these two have more useful resistances and immunities), it becomes increasingly difficult to justify Silv-Dark as opposed to Ground or Ghost.
I disagree on this getting ranked, the original nom for this was from early February before the Silvally Dragon ban and even pre-sneasal ban. I would have agreed with this nomination at the time but the meta has changed and now the fact that it loses to premier physical wallbreakers such as Centiskorch, Lycanroc, Sawk, etc makes it incredibly awkward to fit on a team. Reliance on its Heavy-duty Boots leaves it unable to effectively check Shiftry as well. Avalugg on paper has a niche on stall as a physically defensive wall with Rapid Spin utility but competes heavily with Pyuku, Tangela, Altaria, etc who can handle some or all of those physical wallbreakers much more consistently. If you want a spinner for stall, even something like Cryogonal is more effective, actually being able to pressure Qwilfish because of Freeze Dry while synergizing well with the more prevalent physical walls common on stall. I feel like the niche it has is so incredibly specific (if not essentially nonexistent at this point) that it doesn't deserve to be ranked.
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B -> A-: Although A-Persian gives it competition, this leopard/black cat can still provide great support capabilities thanks to its ability Prankster. Such supporting feats it can give are encore, copycat, u-turn, taunt, Knock Off, and Thunder Wave. Liepard is also a premier weather setter with heat/damp rock, as it will usually be guaranteed to set weather, as unlike Pokemon like Dugtrio, it doesn’t need to worry about even the fastest of threats, such as Accelgor, which can reverse momentum and even serve as a wincon for weather abusers such as Ludicolo or Leafeon.
C- -> UR: Its niche on terrain teams is miniscule, and its extreme unpopularity on such teams supports this. Uxie and even Duosion (the latter is UR) can serve well without demanding terrain support as a bulky psychic type. Unlike Duosion, Musharna doesn’t have Iron Defense or Acid Armor to boost its defenses, meaning that physical attackers such as Silvally Ghost can quickly overwhelm it, and dark types can completely wall its calm mind set. Not helping is its lack of pivoting moves in u-turn and lack of stealth rock, which can waste the inititiative. 
UR -> C-/C: Unlike fellow brother A-Dugtrio, Dugtrio distinguishes itself through outspeeding Lycanroc, which can be important given that Lycanroc can be used as a Stealth Rock setter and fellow suicide lead. Its utility in memento, stealth rock, and sunny day can make it a great sunny day setter As well.Replay:https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1310986496-3tit65rgxndd1gcctas8o998dbuvb7rpw.
In the replay, Dugtrio is able to easily outpace and break through Lycanroc with Earthquake, play mind games on priority with Kangaskhan, and use memento to enable Leafeon to set up before eviscerating the remaining team.
I agree liepard should rise to b or like at most to b+(still seems somewhat high) cuz its utility is diverse but the common utility of alolasian and liepard is provided better by alolasian and its lack of bulk can easily and greatly limitize the repitition of its utility. Besdes all of its traits sets and support have had already been accounted for during previous vr update and ntg has changed for it since then. Only reason why I think it should rise to b is:
i think it was slightly underrated in b- previous vr update.
As for dugtrio, its just a usable setter and more or less the only reason I even cared to add it on my sun team is that its ground /rock coverage eliminates the poisons/altaria/flash fires and due to that potential keeps them away as long as dug is on field granting abusers 1 setup turns after which some can eliminate these sun threats. however for being ranked its not good enough imo cuz:
1) offensively alolatrio has better typing and ability.
2) no defensive utility
3) as a setter not versatile cuz can't set both sun and rain
4) a favour point was lycan but it's most probably leaving in a couple of days
so I think dug is okay in ur
After playing a bit of the meta I'm gonna make a few noms
C+ to B
Ninetales is a legimate threat. A great speed tier outspeed the likes of silvally forms and basculin a great set up move in nasty plot to set up on passive pokemon like audino and heavily damage it with a +2 fire blast. It has great coverage with the likes of scorching sands to smack qwilfish and coalossal and energy ball to beat fat waters trying to wall it like jellicent or poliwrath. Overall I think it deserves a bump.
To UR
With lycanroc gone I don't see a valid reason to use sand when you can use other viable weathers like sun and rain who pack actual good abusers and outside of sand hippo is rather passive and doesn't offer anything while sandslash is outclassed by other spinners like morpeko.
to B
Providing an electric immunity with pokemon like rotom and rotom fan and volt turn teams running around is great rn. A great speed tier reaching 339 outspeeds alot of the meta and with a scarf outspeed other scarfers like sawk. It packs overheat to blow away grasses and switcheroo to cripple walls like audino and appletun.
to UR
With snow warning being banned from nu and affecting the tiers below it, beartic and abomasnow do not serve any recognisable niche to keep them on the vr.
to A-
So far articuno looks like a very good pokemon. It is one of the best checks to frosmoth eating everything it throws at it and ohkos back with a brave bird. It is also a great offensive check to centiskorch with some attack and speed investment ohkoing with a brave bird similar to frosmoth. It's a ice type that's not weak to fighting and an ice type who doesn't really care about waters as it packs freeze dry. Sub roost is a very annoying set able to pp stall and sit on pokemon as they helplessly try to break through the substitutes and protects. Defog sets are also good packing options like u-turn for momentum, heal bell if you team really hates status, freeze dry for waters, toxic to spread for own status, etc. It has some major downsides such as it's over reliance on boots making it incredibly knock off prone, it's meh typing allowing pokemon like magneton klinklang and coalossal laugh in it's face so overall I think A- is a solid place to put it.
to B+
Arguably the best of the rain sweepers kabutops find it's self in a very good spot rn. WIth hail gone it's rain team doesn't have to worry about vanilluxe sweeping making rain look silly. It also has a place outside of rain acting as a very good scarfer revenging sweepers like frosmoth and butterfree. It packs a stab pivot move to get in a teammate safely or getting something in that can break it's checks. 2 great stabs in liquidation and stone edge and options like superpower to smash ferroseed and even things like leech life for some grasses. It's a decent spinner with knock off to hit ghosts trying to spin block and has other options like a swords dance sweeper/breaker. So I think it deserves a rise.
Feel free to reply and agree or disagree on any of these mons and I hope yall have a nice day!
C+ to BNinetales is a legimate threat. A great speed tier outspeed the likes of silvally forms and basculin a great set up move in nasty plot to set up on passive pokemon like audino and heavily damage it with a +2 fire blast. It has great coverage with the likes of scorching sands to smack qwilfish and coalossal and energy ball to beat fat waters trying to wall it like jellicent or poliwrath. Overall I think it deserves a bump.
To URWith lycanroc gone I don't see a valid reason to use sand when you can use other viable weathers like sun and rain who pack actual good abusers and outside of sand hippo is rather passive and doesn't offer anything while sandslash is outclassed by other spinners like morpeko.
to BProviding an electric immunity with pokemon like rotom and rotom fan and volt turn teams running around is great rn. A great speed tier reaching 339 outspeeds alot of the meta and with a scarf outspeed other scarfers like sawk. It packs overheat to blow away grasses and switcheroo to cripple walls like audino and appletun.
to URWith snow warning being banned from nu and affecting the tiers below it, beartic and abomasnow do not serve any recognisable niche to keep them on the vr.
to A-So far articuno looks like a very good pokemon. It is one of the best checks to frosmoth eating everything it throws at it and ohkos back with a brave bird. It is also a great offensive check to centiskorch with some attack and speed investment ohkoing with a brave bird similar to frosmoth. It's a ice type that's not weak to fighting and an ice type who doesn't really care about waters as it packs freeze dry. Sub roost is a very annoying set able to pp stall and sit on pokemon as they helplessly try to break through the substitutes and protects. Defog sets are also good packing options like u-turn for momentum, heal bell if you team really hates status, freeze dry for waters, toxic to spread for own status, etc. It has some major downsides such as it's over reliance on boots making it incredibly knock off prone, it's meh typing allowing pokemon like magneton klinklang and coalossal laugh in it's face so overall I think A- is a solid place to put it.
to B+Arguably the best of the rain sweepers kabutops find it's self in a very good spot rn. WIth hail gone it's rain team doesn't have to worry about vanilluxe sweeping making rain look silly. It also has a place outside of rain acting as a very good scarfer revenging sweepers like frosmoth and butterfree. It packs a stab pivot move to get in a teammate safely or getting something in that can break it's checks. 2 great stabs in liquidation and stone edge and options like superpower to smash ferroseed and even things like leech life for some grasses. It's a decent spinner with knock off to hit ghosts trying to spin block and has other options like a swords dance sweeper/breaker. So I think it deserves a rise.
Feel free to reply and agree or disagree on any of these mons and I hope yall have a nice day!
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Crustle: UR -> C-/C
I feel like Crustle is a passable lead. It's a decent offensive Stealth Rocker, and it's practically guaranteed to get them up thanks to Sturdy. It can also function as a Shell Smasher in the same set. And even if it doesn't get a chance to set up, it can still get a good attack off if it gets to low health thanks to Custap Berry. With an Attack stat of 105 and a STAB Stone Edge, in addition to Knock Off, it can take out or at least severely cripple at least one of the opponent's Pokemon. On top of that, if it doesn't take damage on its first turn, Crustle can set up Shell Smash for free, and get at least one free move off, even if your opponent has a scarfer or something like Accelgor, again thanks to Sturdy and its Custap Berry, the latter of which is more likely to activate after Shell Smash due to the Defense drop.
- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1315871421 (Not the most viable opposing team, but still shows off what Crustle aims to do. Its natural bulk allows it to prevent being 2HKO'd by Thunder Punch, before setting up and taking out Electivire and Uxie as well as putting a serious dent in Audino and Eiscue)
- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1316478692 (Not even used as a lead for the most part, but still manages to weaken the opposing team considerably. It manages to tank Kangaskhan's Sucker Punch at -1 after being weakened, in addition to taking out said Kangaskhan and a weakened Uxie. Would've been able to do more had it not gotten poisoned)
- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1318222508 (Again, barely used as a lead, but manages to tank Centiskorch's Fire Lash after being weakened, which allowed it to set up and clean up the opposing team)
- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1316478692 (Not even used as a lead for the most part, but still manages to weaken the opposing team considerably. It manages to tank Kangaskhan's Sucker Punch at -1 after being weakened, in addition to taking out said Kangaskhan and a weakened Uxie. Would've been able to do more had it not gotten poisoned)
- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1318222508 (Again, barely used as a lead, but manages to tank Centiskorch's Fire Lash after being weakened, which allowed it to set up and clean up the opposing team)
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to B+articuno functions very nice as a pivot that can check plenty of really good pokémon, as its combination of triple axel/freeze-dry and brave bird/hurricane provides great coverage. with access to u-turn, i like the potential of a 3 attacks + roost set as an offensive pivot, or even roost + defog with u-turn + stab. still though, it 580 base stats mean that subroost will inevitably be a great set for it.
i’m hesitant to move it up to A-, though. although there aren’t many rock and fire type pokémon in the tier, and articuno is far from helpless against said fire/rock types, its terrible defensive typing means that it leaves little room for resistances. because of this, it actually has a much harder time switching in than one may think. pokémon like
, 
(ground) and 
are not only faster, but can threaten it with either rock-type coverage or just raw physical power. thus, its defensive utility doesn’t really affect the game much when it’s not on the field, unlike other pokémon that can absorb hits from the best of them.still though, it has potential to be really great, and is looking to be a solid staple of the meta. thus, i think B+ works for now
Heya! After a first impression 
of the meta I built my first new team and tested out some. I wanted to make some antimeta stuff with all this hype and all new trends that have been show up. For more details check out BA np post :3. And so, I made out with my new boy.
Whiscash from UR to C+
So why our old Klang meta staple again? You may ask. Well, this set is made to be a Mixed attacker to take advantage of new trends as said before. It can serve as a Magneton check with its good typing, while being an electric inmunity and good for common ground like Stunfisk forms with its decent natural bulk. Can Sub on common mons like Qwilfish, Garbodor and Ferroseed, and Oblivious ignoring Taunt is great for it. It can threaten all main Fire-types with Earth Power and Stone Edge, the latter allowing it to OHKO Centiskorch while also threatening common walls like Tangela and Articuno. 216 with a +Speed nature allows it to outspeed Max Speed Adamant Centiskorch.
Now Check this calcs ;o
Replays:
Vs Cuno/Tang/G-Fisk/Qwil (Czim team. Performed by toto)
Whiscash against this type of core has a great time. It is very annoying to switch into when it gets to come in. Sub allows you to freely click buttons on incoming tang or cuno. And provided your opp needs to scout for coverage it works very well.
Vs Kangaspikes
Same thing here. Whiscash is able to sub and heavily chip Ferroseed, and KOing Centiskorch while damaging Rotom when Sub on.
Vs A Cuno/Skorch Squad
I miss a big Stone Edge here and find out that Anticipation doesnt work with Freeze-Dry unfort. But still, Whiscash had a very good matchup here and given that I connected Stone Edge it would have done a great job against this comp.
I will collect more replays in the near future . See ya n.n
of the meta I built my first new team and tested out some. I wanted to make some antimeta stuff with all this hype and all new trends that have been show up. For more details check out BA np post :3. And so, I made out with my new boy.
POG (Whiscash) @ Leftovers
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 12 HP / 28 Atk / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Substitute
- Earth Power
- Stone Edge
- Ice Beam
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 12 HP / 28 Atk / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Substitute
- Earth Power
- Stone Edge
- Ice Beam
So why our old Klang meta staple again? You may ask. Well, this set is made to be a Mixed attacker to take advantage of new trends as said before. It can serve as a Magneton check with its good typing, while being an electric inmunity and good for common ground like Stunfisk forms with its decent natural bulk. Can Sub on common mons like Qwilfish, Garbodor and Ferroseed, and Oblivious ignoring Taunt is great for it. It can threaten all main Fire-types with Earth Power and Stone Edge, the latter allowing it to OHKO Centiskorch while also threatening common walls like Tangela and Articuno. 216 with a +Speed nature allows it to outspeed Max Speed Adamant Centiskorch.
Now Check this calcs ;o
Earth Power as is only STAB OHKOs Qwilfish and Skuntank after rocks:
252 SpA Whiscash Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Qwilfish: 332-392 (99.4 - 117.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Whiscash Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Skuntank: 308-366 (88.7 - 105.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Whiscash Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Qwilfish: 332-392 (99.4 - 117.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Whiscash Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Skuntank: 308-366 (88.7 - 105.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
28 atk with Stone Edge allows it to OHKO Centiskorch and Frosmoth, while 2HKOing Articuno:
28 Atk Whiscash Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Frosmoth: 368-436 (130.9 - 155.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
28 Atk Whiscash Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Centiskorch: 344-408 (100.8 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
28 Atk Whiscash Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Articuno: 244-288 (63.7 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
28 Atk Whiscash Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Frosmoth: 368-436 (130.9 - 155.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
28 Atk Whiscash Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Centiskorch: 344-408 (100.8 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
28 Atk Whiscash Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Articuno: 244-288 (63.7 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Max SpA Ice Beam 2HKOs Tangela and force it to regen:
252 SpA Whiscash Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Tangela: 186-220 (55.6 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Whiscash Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Tangela: 186-220 (55.6 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Replays:
Vs Cuno/Tang/G-Fisk/Qwil (Czim team. Performed by toto)
Whiscash against this type of core has a great time. It is very annoying to switch into when it gets to come in. Sub allows you to freely click buttons on incoming tang or cuno. And provided your opp needs to scout for coverage it works very well.
Vs Kangaspikes
Same thing here. Whiscash is able to sub and heavily chip Ferroseed, and KOing Centiskorch while damaging Rotom when Sub on.
Vs A Cuno/Skorch Squad
I miss a big Stone Edge here and find out that Anticipation doesnt work with Freeze-Dry unfort. But still, Whiscash had a very good matchup here and given that I connected Stone Edge it would have done a great job against this comp.
I will collect more replays in the near future . See ya n.n
to B, maybe B+what makes morpeko unique and slept on as a hazard removal pokémon, is having aura wheel. although there are plenty of spinblockers in this tier, none of them enjoy getting hit by a dark-type aura wheel. even if aura wheel is electric during that turn, the effects of parting shot compliment its style of fast offensive utility. parting shot can be used on the switch, so that another offensive threat can safely enter the field while the opponent thinks morpeko will attack with spin/wheel.
with the threat of aura wheel making way for hazard removal & pivoting setups, as well as super fang against physical walls, morpeko is one of the most underrated pokémon for offensive support. it pairs extremely well with voltturn teams & hazard stack teams alike, and with those two team builds being very reliable in this meta, i think morpeko should rise as a result.
to B+Articuno is a very interesting Pokemon in the Meta, with a plethora of things going in it's favor.
It's STABs offer very strong coverage, it has a useful ground immunity, it has very solid stats with a titanic special bulk, it has strong Utility in the form of U-Turn and Defog, it has reliable recovery to keep it healthy, and Pressure can let it PP Stall effectively. This could lead to a good deal of set variety, from Pivot to Offensive to SubRoost. Freeze-Dry also allows it to beat bulky waters, and Toxic could be used to cripple most walls. It even has Heal Bell if you need a Cleric. Articuno is very unperdictable and can find itself on many teams performing different roles.
However, it has a lot going against it as well as well.
It's complete reliance of HDB really limits it. Once Knocked, which is very hard to avoid in such a Knock-heavy Meta, it'll be almost completely ruined. It takes too much damage from Rocks to be usable without HDB, especially if its your form of Hazard Control. This also limits it's walling capabilities, as even if something doesn't immediately threaten it, such as Defensive Uxie, a Knock could be set up for disaster.
In addition to this, while it's typing has many advantages, it also has many flaws. Aside from a Double Rock Weakness it also falls victim to common electric type attacks. This notably makes it very vunerable to Specs Rotom. In addition to this, it also is very inneffective vs most Steel Types, as it often can't dent them in the slighest and relies on U-Turn, if it is running it, to pivot something in.
In short, Articuno seems to be a very powerful and versatile threat in ZU, but it also has glaring shortcomings that makes it need dedicated support on it's team.
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B+ —> A/A+Very surprised this hasn’t been nommed yet considering how much better this Pokemon got. It’s Specs set hits incredibly hard on almost all of the metagame, with the few exceptions being Audino and both Stunfisk forms (with the Galar form being taken advantage of if Mag is paired with Thwackey). It’s Sub and Scarf sets are also very potent versus stall and offense respectively. There isn’t much to say about Mag that hasn’t been already said, but considering how so many people have been singing Magneton praises I figured it was important to nom.
New -> AI think the B+/A- nom are underselling Articuno's splashability. Articuno is one of the most customizable mon in the tier and you can easily adjust its spread and moveset to handle the threats your team is weak too. As a Defogger, it has a great matchup against most hazard setter and it is also a very reliable pivot with U-turn.
C+ -> BManectric's Fire+Elec coverage is amazing against the common Cuno/G-Fisk/Fish/Tangela, and overall Manectric benefits from Magneton forcing G-Fisk and Ferroseed in teams as Electric answer over Piloswine and Rhydon as none of them safely switch into Specs Overheat / Switcheroo.
B+ -> B-This mon is awful, try to remember when was the last time you added a Cramorant in your team and it worked. Everything it tries to check has Knock Off and due to mediocre physical bulk+sr weakness, it means Cram is forced to spam Roost. Its bulk is so mediocre that it can't even reliably switch into threats like Centiskorch, Kingler or Sawk, and it's so passive that it is abusable by every defensive Pokemon in the tier.
(ground) A->SSilvally-Ground is in my opinion the best Pokémon in the tier. It's an amazing breaker that is hard to OHKO and can is easily 2HKO most Pokemon with Multi-Attack and easily chips its counters in range of Rock Slide with U-turn. It's a staple in most offensive teams as the best Electric-immunity in a tier dominated by Scarf Rotom and Specs Magneton as other Ground-types like Rhydon, Piloswine, and Galarian Stunfisk don't as well versus Electric-types or are super passive. Silvally-Ground also pairs very well with some of the best breaker in the tier, it is able to threaten some of the most common walls in the tier like Qwilfish, Garbodor, Articuno, and Galarian Stunfisk. Overall the combination of amazing wallbreaking capacities and pivoting abilities paired with amazing bulk makes Ground Vally an S-rank threat.
B->B+As much as I dislike Stunfisk-Galar, it is one of the only Pokemon in the tier able to consistently switch into Magneton which is the n°1 wallbreaker in the tier and thus became a staple on defensive and balance builds.
B->B+/A-Rain is a dominating archetype right now.
Edit:
I forgot to add
C- -> URThis should never have been added to the VR, it can't wall much and we have far better physical walls.
Edit 2:
C-/C -> URSand is dead without Lycan.
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this is a pretty hot take, but i honestly am going to second this opinion. silvally-ground has (debatably) reached uxie levels of requirement on both voltturn teams and general offensive build. it has an insane combination of offensive prowess and utility, as it’s the only pokémon in the meta that is both (a) immune to volt switch and (b) able to u-turn itself. it’s also the few pokémon in the tier with the fabled rock-ground attacking combo.
Silvally-Ground is in my opinion the best Pokémon in the tier.
i think the defensive capabilities of this pokémon (good stats, amazing immunity, etc) give it some potential as a defog user, but the swords dance set is where it’s at. with the rock-ground attacking combo as i mentioned before, this thing almost has zero switch-ins once it gets a swords dance boost. furthermore, it has the option between powerful pivoting in u-turn, or pretty ridiculous sweeping setups in flame charge.
i could go on, but the massive extent of this pokémon’s power, and the underrated value of its defensive utility, is honestly something that should’ve been discovered sooner in zu.
(ground) to S
VR update planned for Monday! Get your last minute noms in this weekend. Additionally...
The ZU VR council is welcoming AstilCodex as the newest member! Additionally, I would like to clarify that the VR council is rotational. This means that role will be transferred to a new esteemed ZU player each vote to promote representation as well as ensure there's no longer a need for a tie breaker. Thank you Toto for your help in the last VR update, and I'm sure Astil will also do a great job this time around
B+ > A+: Jon summed this up already, and I just want to agree + add that theres a lot more discussion on this mon in the NP thread and in the ZU discord. It being on par with Rotom as a top tier Electric-type sounds fine by me.
UR > A- / A: It's new and extremely relevant. I'm sure many are hesitant to rank it higher, but I really value it's utility and it's one of the best mons for the roles it accomplishes. There's been a lot of good points here for cuno to be lower than A, which has been my verdict on it for a while now, so I'm more decisive if A- is better fit for it. It's also entirely possible that cuno gets prepped into oblivion and becomes a lot less reliable in the long run, but that adaptation has yet to flurish, so A or A- seemingly fits; I'll make a game time decision during votes.
C+ > B+: It's a huge jump, and Ninetales deserves it. Nasty Plot sets are finally becoming relevant and rewarding, although there's still a lot of hurdles in its way. Despite having a hard time mustering through some special walls even with a boost, there's also its unboosted power that's really underwelming. Otherwise, revenge killing Magenton and Frosmoth and finding NP windows against vulnerable walls is still a potent skill in this meta.
(Ground) A > A+: Again, another hot topic, and a mon I've personally advocated for all of the DLC2 meta. Groundvally is getting a lot more popular and hard to ignore, especially in the teambuilder. Multi-Attack + Rock Slide with SD to boost and U-turn to pivot out / chip its checks is often too hard to handle. Teams also need a Volt Switch immunity, and Groundvally is great for the role while preserving momentum. The mix of both offensive and defensive utility is pretty much unmatched, and I think it's got a clear advantage, viability wise, over the next best vally, Silvghost.
I'll do some new noms below:
A > A-: It's not seeing that much use, and with each week it's seemingly being ignored in favor of more general defensive walls, defensive sweepers, or Ghost-types. There's also Lycanroc leaving, which was one of the better reasons to keep Cofa in the back. Countering Kanga is still great but the meta favors general phys walls with more utility (see: persian / qwil / garb). It's specialized role, on top of seeing less use for said role, makes me believe it deserves a small drop.
A- > B+: It's still usable but it's hard to say what Miltank accomplishes. I like that it can counter Ninetales (which I'll get to), and semi-fast wall with a ton of utility is cool too, but nothing it's capable of is that unique nor invaluable. Meanwhile, even Audino is plausible as a Normal wall for balance / BO instead of Miltank. Miltank also has seen little to no discussion VR wise, although there's been some acknowledgment that it's worse. Let's address that finally.
B+ > A-: Hard to go wrong with a well-built Tang team. The utility of a defensive Grass-type is missing from the A ranks bar Ferroseed, which doesn't represent how a wall like Tang can Sleep Powder checks its switch-ins like Centi and Rotom-S to make it easier for revenge killers to switch in. Tang also probably the best sponge to physical attacks in a meta where its competition has little to no reliable recovery.
B- > B: Not that it's only role is as a gterrain wallbreaker, but at the very least I feel it's a good role for it, and in that light it can be on par with Thwackey at B. Outside of these teams, I still like it's wallbreaking prowess + status absorption. Those scald burns don't mean too much to Trev.
C+ > B: Another NP post reference, I'm just a huge fan of some of our once-niche removal options rn. Coal always had a handful of top tiers it countered, and now Articuno is on that list. It weaknesses are still a grave flaw, although in the context of what it checks + hazards, I think it's a passable addition for some playstyles.
I think that's it for me. The noms above cover a lot of other loose ends, but what else did you guys have in mind? Get your noms in before Monday and the council will vote on em.
The ZU VR council is welcoming AstilCodex as the newest member! Additionally, I would like to clarify that the VR council is rotational. This means that role will be transferred to a new esteemed ZU player each vote to promote representation as well as ensure there's no longer a need for a tie breaker. Thank you Toto for your help in the last VR update, and I'm sure Astil will also do a great job this time around
well give me a second
Very surprised this hasn’t been nommed yet
B+ > A+: Jon summed this up already, and I just want to agree + add that theres a lot more discussion on this mon in the NP thread and in the ZU discord. It being on par with Rotom as a top tier Electric-type sounds fine by me. UR > A- / A: It's new and extremely relevant. I'm sure many are hesitant to rank it higher, but I really value it's utility and it's one of the best mons for the roles it accomplishes. There's been a lot of good points here for cuno to be lower than A, which has been my verdict on it for a while now, so I'm more decisive if A- is better fit for it. It's also entirely possible that cuno gets prepped into oblivion and becomes a lot less reliable in the long run, but that adaptation has yet to flurish, so A or A- seemingly fits; I'll make a game time decision during votes. C+ > B+: It's a huge jump, and Ninetales deserves it. Nasty Plot sets are finally becoming relevant and rewarding, although there's still a lot of hurdles in its way. Despite having a hard time mustering through some special walls even with a boost, there's also its unboosted power that's really underwelming. Otherwise, revenge killing Magenton and Frosmoth and finding NP windows against vulnerable walls is still a potent skill in this meta.(Ground) A > A+: Again, another hot topic, and a mon I've personally advocated for all of the DLC2 meta. Groundvally is getting a lot more popular and hard to ignore, especially in the teambuilder. Multi-Attack + Rock Slide with SD to boost and U-turn to pivot out / chip its checks is often too hard to handle. Teams also need a Volt Switch immunity, and Groundvally is great for the role while preserving momentum. The mix of both offensive and defensive utility is pretty much unmatched, and I think it's got a clear advantage, viability wise, over the next best vally, Silvghost.I'll do some new noms below:
A > A-: It's not seeing that much use, and with each week it's seemingly being ignored in favor of more general defensive walls, defensive sweepers, or Ghost-types. There's also Lycanroc leaving, which was one of the better reasons to keep Cofa in the back. Countering Kanga is still great but the meta favors general phys walls with more utility (see: persian / qwil / garb). It's specialized role, on top of seeing less use for said role, makes me believe it deserves a small drop. A- > B+: It's still usable but it's hard to say what Miltank accomplishes. I like that it can counter Ninetales (which I'll get to), and semi-fast wall with a ton of utility is cool too, but nothing it's capable of is that unique nor invaluable. Meanwhile, even Audino is plausible as a Normal wall for balance / BO instead of Miltank. Miltank also has seen little to no discussion VR wise, although there's been some acknowledgment that it's worse. Let's address that finally. B+ > A-: Hard to go wrong with a well-built Tang team. The utility of a defensive Grass-type is missing from the A ranks bar Ferroseed, which doesn't represent how a wall like Tang can Sleep Powder checks its switch-ins like Centi and Rotom-S to make it easier for revenge killers to switch in. Tang also probably the best sponge to physical attacks in a meta where its competition has little to no reliable recovery. B- > B: Not that it's only role is as a gterrain wallbreaker, but at the very least I feel it's a good role for it, and in that light it can be on par with Thwackey at B. Outside of these teams, I still like it's wallbreaking prowess + status absorption. Those scald burns don't mean too much to Trev. C+ > B: Another NP post reference, I'm just a huge fan of some of our once-niche removal options rn. Coal always had a handful of top tiers it countered, and now Articuno is on that list. It weaknesses are still a grave flaw, although in the context of what it checks + hazards, I think it's a passable addition for some playstyles.I think that's it for me. The noms above cover a lot of other loose ends, but what else did you guys have in mind? Get your noms in before Monday and the council will vote on em.
Don't have much to say, just here to nom Type: Null down before I forget again last like vr update
Type: Null B > C/C- This mon fell of a cliff so hard in viability. Wishiwashi hard outclasses it as a Spd rest talking pivot. Only reasons I can see someone using it is if they already have another water type on their team and don't want to stack weakness or are in desperate need of a ghost immunity which it is also outclasses by the likes of Audino and Miltank, granted they cannot pivot.
Edit: changed to C/C- from C-/UR
Type: Null B > C/C- This mon fell of a cliff so hard in viability. Wishiwashi hard outclasses it as a Spd rest talking pivot. Only reasons I can see someone using it is if they already have another water type on their team and don't want to stack weakness or are in desperate need of a ghost immunity which it is also outclasses by the likes of Audino and Miltank, granted they cannot pivot.Edit: changed to C/C- from C-/UR
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Agreeing with a lot of the noms.
(Ground) A --> A+/S: Its locked in for A+, but I think it has the potential to go to S. EdgeQuake coverage is difficult to switch into, especially when u have to potentially take +2 U-turn. Blocking Volt Switch is also good with all the Electric-types rising in viability.
B+ --> A+: Its pretty one-dimensional (most of the time you are clicking 2 moves the whole game), but its also very effective at its role. Nothing really switches into Magneton well outside of Galarian Stunfisk.
--> A: I wouldn't be surprised if it was A-, but I think A is right for it. Articuno can run a plethora of different sets based on what your team style needs. Vincuno (
) on stall and bulky offense team is a nuisance and you always have the standard 3 attacks + Roost or 2 attacks + Roost + Defog to fall back on. Very good movepool complemented by great bulk; very good addition to the tier.
B --> B+: Mag Mag Mag
B+ --> A-: One of the most reliable answers to Silvally-Ground and just a good general defensive wall with reliable recovery. Offensive sets are also underrated; people kinda forgets that it has base 100 Special Attack and can nuke non-Ferro teams with Leaf Storm.
C+ --> B/B+: Leaning towards B right now, but has that B+ potential. Its a good fit in the meta; you are getting a check to stuff like Articuno, Centiskorch, and Frosmoth in one slot, while deterring physical attackers like Cinccino, Kangaskhan, and Silvally-Ground from mindlessly clicking attacks due to Flame Body.
C+ --> B: Tuthur summed it up in his nom. Fire + Electric good, switcheroo good, Volt Switch blocking good.
UR --> C: I forgot to save replays for this guy, so please disregard if not allowed 
. Despite all the Electric-types in the tier, I think Raichu has a niche as a wallbreaker. Its like a good midground between NP Rotom-S and Manectric and functions similarly to NP Ninetales. Between Tbolt / Focus Blast / Grass Knot or Surf, it hits a majority of the metagame for at least neutral damage while also giving a Volt Switch immunity. Its wallbreaker set is the only one worth mentioning cuz its utility set is pretty much outclasses by the Rotom formes despite having both Knock Off and Toxic.
(Ground) A --> A+/S: Its locked in for A+, but I think it has the potential to go to S. EdgeQuake coverage is difficult to switch into, especially when u have to potentially take +2 U-turn. Blocking Volt Switch is also good with all the Electric-types rising in viability. B+ --> A+: Its pretty one-dimensional (most of the time you are clicking 2 moves the whole game), but its also very effective at its role. Nothing really switches into Magneton well outside of Galarian Stunfisk. --> A: I wouldn't be surprised if it was A-, but I think A is right for it. Articuno can run a plethora of different sets based on what your team style needs. Vincuno () on stall and bulky offense team is a nuisance and you always have the standard 3 attacks + Roost or 2 attacks + Roost + Defog to fall back on. Very good movepool complemented by great bulk; very good addition to the tier. B --> B+: Mag Mag Mag B+ --> A-: One of the most reliable answers to Silvally-Ground and just a good general defensive wall with reliable recovery. Offensive sets are also underrated; people kinda forgets that it has base 100 Special Attack and can nuke non-Ferro teams with Leaf Storm. C+ --> B/B+: Leaning towards B right now, but has that B+ potential. Its a good fit in the meta; you are getting a check to stuff like Articuno, Centiskorch, and Frosmoth in one slot, while deterring physical attackers like Cinccino, Kangaskhan, and Silvally-Ground from mindlessly clicking attacks due to Flame Body. C+ --> B: Tuthur summed it up in his nom. Fire + Electric good, switcheroo good, Volt Switch blocking good. UR --> C: I forgot to save replays for this guy, so please disregard if not allowed . Despite all the Electric-types in the tier, I think Raichu has a niche as a wallbreaker. Its like a good midground between NP Rotom-S and Manectric and functions similarly to NP Ninetales. Between Tbolt / Focus Blast / Grass Knot or Surf, it hits a majority of the metagame for at least neutral damage while also giving a Volt Switch immunity. Its wallbreaker set is the only one worth mentioning cuz its utility set is pretty much outclasses by the Rotom formes despite having both Knock Off and Toxic.
C+ -> B-It’s a good time to be a steel type. Klinklang fares better with Articuno being one of the main spotlights, and it does very well in walling out the bird, and can take advantage of shift gear to mow through opposing teams given the chance. Having great matchups against Thwackey and Non-Heat Wave Swoobat is also nice. Substitute also is a big boon against all those pesky stall teams, which enables it to easily 6-0 them with little warning. Definitely a slept on Steel and can hold its own against most of the metagame.
B+->AKingler is simply absurd right now. With the rise of Coallosal, Magneton, and Trevenant, Kingler can simply OHKO them with the proper move. As gye pointed out, Tangela isn’t even the cure-all to this crushing crab, as ice beam can 2HKO running a naughty nature. I’ve run choice scarf sets and they’re particularly nasty at OHKOing Cinncinos and Morpekos who think they can come in after a teammate fainted and force kingler out.
C- -> C+ Magneton, Rapidash and Coallosal’s rises mixed with Frosmoth’s slight decline grants Runerigus more breathing room to set up rocks (and/or toxic spikes) and be a decent defensive mon. Although Cofagrigus‘ mono-ghost typing enables it to pull off better Body Press wincons, Runerigus can still pull similar things off using its identical defense stat.
Even prior to that, I find Runerigus to be an effective stop to prominent threats like Kangaskhan and Sawk. The ground typing also gives it an immunity to volt switch, which can cause teams to lose momentum from relying on their rotoms/manectric.
C -> BMalamar is able to nicely use its hefty bulk and strong defensive typing to do well in a more Articuno/Magneton/Coallosal heavy metagame. Malamar can easily shake off the former’s attempts of toxicing, and retaliate to become a dangerous sweeper with contrary. Biggest issues are its low speed and lack of resists (+ 4x bug weakness), but the meta trends are quite kind and should see a rise.
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Drops
A to A- -> Already spoiled this one on Discord. It got competition as a defogger from Articuno, also hard loses to Magneton which is on the rise, being an electric-type that doesnt resist electric makes it rough to use nowadays and that's it really. Still a good pick for bulky offensive teams but definitely not as good as before.
A to A- -> Articuno is another splashable counter for it which it can't work around, it also doesn't appreciate the Magneton hype and the increased usage of other steel types. It does appreciate Lycanroc being a goner though
A to A- -> Pilo is still pretty good but it doesnt like Articuno being common, it now has a 4MSS which it didnt have before since it can't break one of the best Defoggers in the tier with its STAB combination alone. Also a ground-type weak to Flash Cannon is rip.
A- to B+ -> Dislikes Magneton and Articuno (Am i getting repetitive at this point? lol). Altaria is still decent in stall but it isnt the mandatory defogger anymore due to Articuno dropping and being a consistent option. Overall B+ seems more in line.
B to B- -> Jellicent is just extremely hard to justify since it doesnt really do anything consistently. It has issues dealing with Fire, Fighting and Water types that its meant to handle. It does have a solid Coalossal MU which is one the rise though.
B- to C+ -> Since Sneasel left I dont really see a reason to use this, Poliwrath's water immunity makes it more appealing defensively and Gurdurr pulls offensive sets better. Guts breaker is somewhat scary though in TR.
B- to C -> Golbat is one of those mons that are incredible on paper but don't really accomplish much in the metagame. Sure, Taunt/Super Fang or Nasty Plot sets can be interesting, while defensive sets seem hard to justify due to its reliance on Eviolte makes it super easy to pressure as a Defogger.
C+ to C -> Articuno/Magneton (u probably know at this point lol). But both of those struggle to break through these 2 strong faces in the metagame
Rises
B+ to A- -> This mon just wrecks common defensive cores right now with stuff like Articuno, Tangela, Qwilfish, Stunfisk-G like Ninetales (that was already nommed up). Pretty decent speed and wallbreaking power makes this a strong pick in the metagame with its good matchups.
B to B+ -> Monke is rly good atm to help with Rain being a pretty strong playstyle rn while also helping Magneton break through its sturdiest counter (Stunfisk-Galar) because of the worst ability ever. Other picks like Coalossal and Perrserker also appreciate the reduced EQ damage from it
B- to B -> SM ZU's #1 Titan is back in business with the Articuno drop since it just subs and set-up on the birb's face. Its typing still sucks defensively though but it has a lot more opportunities to setup in this metagame with stuff like Tangela being more common too.
C to B- -> Perrserker is a pretty decent pivot right now with its Assault Vest being noticeably one of the few Steel-types that can actually threaten Magneton back with Close Combat. Steel-typing is more valuable with Articuno around and Perrserker is arguably one of the best picks.
C to C+ -> With Lightningrod, Pincurchin is a solid Magneton counter while also being able to setup Spikes on its face. Having Electric-STAB and reliable recovery give it the tools to set them throughout the game while pressuring Defoggers.
C- to C+ -> With Palossand leaving the tier this became way easier to justify. It has a very decent bulk, access to EdgeQuake to pressure defoggers on top of a godly Uxie matchup. Access to Toxic Spikes and status makes this also pretty adaptable. Overall much better than everything on C-
New faces
UR to C -> Interesting mon to use in Electric terrain with Nature Power sets. Overall the Grass-typing makes it an appealing addition to those teams since it helps break Ground-types while also providing a soft Water-check that can setup on mons that would try to absorb Rising Voltage from Manectric/Magneton.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1308038788
(Bird) UR to C -> Ok, so hear me out. No one uses Sturdy Flying checks in this metagame aside from Stunfisk-Galar (which can barely be called that). Silvally-Flying proves to be a deadly setup sweeper with Flying Multi-attack taking advantage of defensive cores with Tangela as the physical wall. Flame Charge help you beat Magneton and Stunfisk-Galar after some chip. I forgot to save replays of this guy but trust me, its a solid one. Due to also only being weak to SR, it can somewhat function as an emergency Defogger as well.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1308759208-z5c4egc1wbc2esc4mmh079t6t67adgnpw (This is the only replay i actually found of it where toto shamefully saved the only time he actually beat me after playing several times with the same teams. You can see the concept of Silv-flying in this game though)
That's it for now :)
A to A- -> Already spoiled this one on Discord. It got competition as a defogger from Articuno, also hard loses to Magneton which is on the rise, being an electric-type that doesnt resist electric makes it rough to use nowadays and that's it really. Still a good pick for bulky offensive teams but definitely not as good as before. A to A- -> Articuno is another splashable counter for it which it can't work around, it also doesn't appreciate the Magneton hype and the increased usage of other steel types. It does appreciate Lycanroc being a goner though A to A- -> Pilo is still pretty good but it doesnt like Articuno being common, it now has a 4MSS which it didnt have before since it can't break one of the best Defoggers in the tier with its STAB combination alone. Also a ground-type weak to Flash Cannon is rip. A- to B+ -> Dislikes Magneton and Articuno (Am i getting repetitive at this point? lol). Altaria is still decent in stall but it isnt the mandatory defogger anymore due to Articuno dropping and being a consistent option. Overall B+ seems more in line. B to B- -> Jellicent is just extremely hard to justify since it doesnt really do anything consistently. It has issues dealing with Fire, Fighting and Water types that its meant to handle. It does have a solid Coalossal MU which is one the rise though. B- to C+ -> Since Sneasel left I dont really see a reason to use this, Poliwrath's water immunity makes it more appealing defensively and Gurdurr pulls offensive sets better. Guts breaker is somewhat scary though in TR. B- to C -> Golbat is one of those mons that are incredible on paper but don't really accomplish much in the metagame. Sure, Taunt/Super Fang or Nasty Plot sets can be interesting, while defensive sets seem hard to justify due to its reliance on Eviolte makes it super easy to pressure as a Defogger. C+ to C -> Articuno/Magneton (u probably know at this point lol). But both of those struggle to break through these 2 strong faces in the metagameRises
B+ to A- -> This mon just wrecks common defensive cores right now with stuff like Articuno, Tangela, Qwilfish, Stunfisk-G like Ninetales (that was already nommed up). Pretty decent speed and wallbreaking power makes this a strong pick in the metagame with its good matchups. B to B+ -> Monke is rly good atm to help with Rain being a pretty strong playstyle rn while also helping Magneton break through its sturdiest counter (Stunfisk-Galar) because of the worst ability ever. Other picks like Coalossal and Perrserker also appreciate the reduced EQ damage from it B- to B -> SM ZU's #1 Titan is back in business with the Articuno drop since it just subs and set-up on the birb's face. Its typing still sucks defensively though but it has a lot more opportunities to setup in this metagame with stuff like Tangela being more common too. C to B- -> Perrserker is a pretty decent pivot right now with its Assault Vest being noticeably one of the few Steel-types that can actually threaten Magneton back with Close Combat. Steel-typing is more valuable with Articuno around and Perrserker is arguably one of the best picks. C to C+ -> With Lightningrod, Pincurchin is a solid Magneton counter while also being able to setup Spikes on its face. Having Electric-STAB and reliable recovery give it the tools to set them throughout the game while pressuring Defoggers. C- to C+ -> With Palossand leaving the tier this became way easier to justify. It has a very decent bulk, access to EdgeQuake to pressure defoggers on top of a godly Uxie matchup. Access to Toxic Spikes and status makes this also pretty adaptable. Overall much better than everything on C-New faces
UR to C -> Interesting mon to use in Electric terrain with Nature Power sets. Overall the Grass-typing makes it an appealing addition to those teams since it helps break Ground-types while also providing a soft Water-check that can setup on mons that would try to absorb Rising Voltage from Manectric/Magneton.https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1308038788
(Bird) UR to C -> Ok, so hear me out. No one uses Sturdy Flying checks in this metagame aside from Stunfisk-Galar (which can barely be called that). Silvally-Flying proves to be a deadly setup sweeper with Flying Multi-attack taking advantage of defensive cores with Tangela as the physical wall. Flame Charge help you beat Magneton and Stunfisk-Galar after some chip. I forgot to save replays of this guy but trust me, its a solid one. Due to also only being weak to SR, it can somewhat function as an emergency Defogger as well.https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1308759208-z5c4egc1wbc2esc4mmh079t6t67adgnpw (This is the only replay i actually found of it where toto shamefully saved the only time he actually beat me after playing several times with the same teams. You can see the concept of Silv-flying in this game though)
That's it for now :)
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Rises
UR to C, well, it is mostly outclassed by its galarian counter part, but it has some small diference, many magneton teams pair it with terrain, making it not vulnerable the horrendous ability of mimicry, it has toxic too and discharge I guess, I have seen some teams using it, and well is ok I guess if u dont need that steel typing so hard.
-ground A to S-, this a mon that every team most prepare for, it blocks volt swicth and pairs well wit it. the most popular set, sd edgequake+u turn match ups well withh most of the meta, and very few mons can counter it, tangela, gourgiest, shinotic, avalugg (rarely seen), pain split rotom(never seen, it almost always uses choice sets) Its great bulk for a offensive mon and good speed tier make it one of the most dangerous mons, if not the single most. I said grasses do well against it but what if it decides to go with work up, well it turn the tables agaisnt it and gourgeist, not to mention the benefit of hitting ferro. In conclusion this mon has no true counters, it is almost as splashable as uxie.
B+to A, the single best physical tank in the tier, it invalidates any sweeping from vally ground, walls kanga, non ice beam kingler, sawk, cinccino, kabutops, thwakey and boltund. Even if it loses the evio, ist still plenty of bulky. It hist hard with leaf storm, knock off for utility, sludge bomb for grasses, synthesis and status for the last slot if need it, playing defense while offense is one of the things that makes this mon so good, not forgetting about regen.
New to A, A new addition that it seems that will fufill some important roles as a defogger, sub toxic and pp staller, rain check and more. checks some dangerous mons like frostmoth, ludicolo, centiskorch and other grasses.
C+ to B, a really good hazard setter, with massive defenses that checks very dangerous mons, like articuno, frostmoth, butterfree, liligant, centiskorch gourgeist, all rotom forms of the tier and can spikes on many mons that do not hurt it, having spin and a really stab combination, gives this mon some great utlity. It has some horrible weaknesses but with team team building u can try to cover that, with flame body it can punsih vally ground sawk from clicking its stab move, specially cinccino, if caught on the switch. Burning u turn users is nice as well.
C+ to B, an underated wall that its almost imposible to counter with palosand gone, even tangela cant counter it, because of its pseudo stab heat crash, that special defense can hold it back agaisnt faster special attackers like rotom, so be careful when u use it. the massive physical defense helps it to check kanga or using an emergency boom on something like vally ground. Defensive sets can be justified, like I did, but rhydon can do those as well.
B to A-, a very bulky steel type that counters mag, inmune to poison, a lot of resistances and huge bulk make this a very good mon for teams that need some defensive back up, t wave and yawn are very useful move for it. .Checking frostmoth, rotom, some articuno sets, cinccino, skuntank. Although, watch ou for its pasivity.
B to B+, a strong wall breaker that can break through many walls, it has amazing coverage, which can expanded on terrain teams with terrain pulse to blow bulky waters, many offensive teams dont have dragon resist, making dragon pulse its main move in a lot of situations while also hitting appletun and alt for heavy damage. Its low speed dont let claw shine as much as it wants so it cannot use its full potential some times.
B+to A+, every team must to prepare for it, hits really hard, has a good defensive typing to exploit, its sets range from specs, eviolite and scarf. Exploiting the new articuno is invaluble, thwakey becoming good because of rain, its just great. Pincurchin can be used to abuse galarfisk and rising voltage but its lack of a switch hinders it back and thwakey despite not boosting its electric attacks, is pretty much better for the metagame.
B+ to A-, one of the most dangerous wall breakers are sweepers, with one agility, even running adamant, it outspeeds most things exept scarf cinccino. with ice beam it breaks even tangela, sccarf swets are dangerous cleaner for offensive teams, only pyuku can in theory switch in, but with hazards, body slam can pressure it.
Drops
A+to A-, it is a very good wallbreaker, but sometimes it can struggle with offense and some defnsive mons like coalassal, whcih have been rising recently, the popularity of qwil doesnt help either and a lot of mons run speed to creep adamant skorch, which is the best nature and for the set it runs. Its typing have some bad and good traits, the bad ones are that with some coverage that mostoffensive mons can fit like rock and water can hinder it a lot, the good thing is that it reistfighting, inmune to fire, making it a great counter to the new rising of ninteales, it also checks non acid armor alcreamy and non hurricane frostmoth.In conclusion is a good mon but it has some flaws to prevent it to do what it wants.
A to A-, well the meta isnt kind to it, rest sets have a harder time setting up, the ever present spikes cuts its longevity, special attackers can stop any iron defense attemps like rotom, skunktank and clawitzer, even physical attacker can pressure cofa like kanga and ground vally with all the hazards that are laid on the field. It can be a pain for unprepared teams but it is vulnerable to the meta.
A to A-, the popularity of magneton, the introduction of cuno and the palo leaving which was an excelent set up fodder doesnt help. its does moth things like qd and sweep, but yea the meta is not helping it.
ghost A to A-, vally gound is usually the prefered option and the lack of ways to hit normals without reversal bothers it a lot, alolan persian pretty much walls this, and it doesnt have many opportunities to switch in, unlike vally groung when it blocks volt switch and kanga having scrappy, yea.
A- to B+, the main issue with this mon is the very high usage of vally ground, making sweeping with np really hard, it should be explored more again.
A- to B: Too high, articuno exist as a huge competition,dd sets are hard to pull off, good on rain and in some teams that its resistances are needed.
A- to C+, wtf, this is only seen on stall teamswhich arent popular btw. taunt=dead pyuku. free momentum for rotom, magneton, thwakey and every mon wit taut¿nt, trick ruins it and hazards. That would be a fine ranks if we were doing a vr for stall, but its not.
B+ to -B-, not a good defogger any more, too many electric types, its just annoying with its ability.
B+ to B-, this will be controversial but, I dont see use of this, doesnt switch on centi, heates lossing its eviolite, veru slow for sweeping, it isnt great. it doesnt shine.
B to C: A passive mon vulnerable to knock off, that has not good resistances, relies on rest to heal, is just a bad wishi
water and posion C+/C to UR: horrible forms that are out done by better mons, even something like vally flying or fire is better.
UR to C, well, it is mostly outclassed by its galarian counter part, but it has some small diference, many magneton teams pair it with terrain, making it not vulnerable the horrendous ability of mimicry, it has toxic too and discharge I guess, I have seen some teams using it, and well is ok I guess if u dont need that steel typing so hard.-ground A to S-, this a mon that every team most prepare for, it blocks volt swicth and pairs well wit it. the most popular set, sd edgequake+u turn match ups well withh most of the meta, and very few mons can counter it, tangela, gourgiest, shinotic, avalugg (rarely seen), pain split rotom(never seen, it almost always uses choice sets) Its great bulk for a offensive mon and good speed tier make it one of the most dangerous mons, if not the single most. I said grasses do well against it but what if it decides to go with work up, well it turn the tables agaisnt it and gourgeist, not to mention the benefit of hitting ferro. In conclusion this mon has no true counters, it is almost as splashable as uxie. B+to A, the single best physical tank in the tier, it invalidates any sweeping from vally ground, walls kanga, non ice beam kingler, sawk, cinccino, kabutops, thwakey and boltund. Even if it loses the evio, ist still plenty of bulky. It hist hard with leaf storm, knock off for utility, sludge bomb for grasses, synthesis and status for the last slot if need it, playing defense while offense is one of the things that makes this mon so good, not forgetting about regen. New to A, A new addition that it seems that will fufill some important roles as a defogger, sub toxic and pp staller, rain check and more. checks some dangerous mons like frostmoth, ludicolo, centiskorch and other grasses. C+ to B, a really good hazard setter, with massive defenses that checks very dangerous mons, like articuno, frostmoth, butterfree, liligant, centiskorch gourgeist, all rotom forms of the tier and can spikes on many mons that do not hurt it, having spin and a really stab combination, gives this mon some great utlity. It has some horrible weaknesses but with team team building u can try to cover that, with flame body it can punsih vally ground sawk from clicking its stab move, specially cinccino, if caught on the switch. Burning u turn users is nice as well. C+ to B, an underated wall that its almost imposible to counter with palosand gone, even tangela cant counter it, because of its pseudo stab heat crash, that special defense can hold it back agaisnt faster special attackers like rotom, so be careful when u use it. the massive physical defense helps it to check kanga or using an emergency boom on something like vally ground. Defensive sets can be justified, like I did, but rhydon can do those as well. B to A-, a very bulky steel type that counters mag, inmune to poison, a lot of resistances and huge bulk make this a very good mon for teams that need some defensive back up, t wave and yawn are very useful move for it. .Checking frostmoth, rotom, some articuno sets, cinccino, skuntank. Although, watch ou for its pasivity. B to B+, a strong wall breaker that can break through many walls, it has amazing coverage, which can expanded on terrain teams with terrain pulse to blow bulky waters, many offensive teams dont have dragon resist, making dragon pulse its main move in a lot of situations while also hitting appletun and alt for heavy damage. Its low speed dont let claw shine as much as it wants so it cannot use its full potential some times. B+to A+, every team must to prepare for it, hits really hard, has a good defensive typing to exploit, its sets range from specs, eviolite and scarf. Exploiting the new articuno is invaluble, thwakey becoming good because of rain, its just great. Pincurchin can be used to abuse galarfisk and rising voltage but its lack of a switch hinders it back and thwakey despite not boosting its electric attacks, is pretty much better for the metagame. B+ to A-, one of the most dangerous wall breakers are sweepers, with one agility, even running adamant, it outspeeds most things exept scarf cinccino. with ice beam it breaks even tangela, sccarf swets are dangerous cleaner for offensive teams, only pyuku can in theory switch in, but with hazards, body slam can pressure it.Drops
A+to A-, it is a very good wallbreaker, but sometimes it can struggle with offense and some defnsive mons like coalassal, whcih have been rising recently, the popularity of qwil doesnt help either and a lot of mons run speed to creep adamant skorch, which is the best nature and for the set it runs. Its typing have some bad and good traits, the bad ones are that with some coverage that mostoffensive mons can fit like rock and water can hinder it a lot, the good thing is that it reistfighting, inmune to fire, making it a great counter to the new rising of ninteales, it also checks non acid armor alcreamy and non hurricane frostmoth.In conclusion is a good mon but it has some flaws to prevent it to do what it wants. A to A-, well the meta isnt kind to it, rest sets have a harder time setting up, the ever present spikes cuts its longevity, special attackers can stop any iron defense attemps like rotom, skunktank and clawitzer, even physical attacker can pressure cofa like kanga and ground vally with all the hazards that are laid on the field. It can be a pain for unprepared teams but it is vulnerable to the meta. A to A-, the popularity of magneton, the introduction of cuno and the palo leaving which was an excelent set up fodder doesnt help. its does moth things like qd and sweep, but yea the meta is not helping it. ghost A to A-, vally gound is usually the prefered option and the lack of ways to hit normals without reversal bothers it a lot, alolan persian pretty much walls this, and it doesnt have many opportunities to switch in, unlike vally groung when it blocks volt switch and kanga having scrappy, yea. A- to B+, the main issue with this mon is the very high usage of vally ground, making sweeping with np really hard, it should be explored more again. A- to B: Too high, articuno exist as a huge competition,dd sets are hard to pull off, good on rain and in some teams that its resistances are needed. A- to C+, wtf, this is only seen on stall teamswhich arent popular btw. taunt=dead pyuku. free momentum for rotom, magneton, thwakey and every mon wit taut¿nt, trick ruins it and hazards. That would be a fine ranks if we were doing a vr for stall, but its not. B+ to -B-, not a good defogger any more, too many electric types, its just annoying with its ability. B+ to B-, this will be controversial but, I dont see use of this, doesnt switch on centi, heates lossing its eviolite, veru slow for sweeping, it isnt great. it doesnt shine. B to C: A passive mon vulnerable to knock off, that has not good resistances, relies on rest to heal, is just a bad wishi water and posion C+/C to UR: horrible forms that are out done by better mons, even something like vally flying or fire is better.
I'd like to comment on just a few noms before council votes on an update.
B+ to A
I agree with gye5 on A rank for this. This is the best check to Silvally-Ground as well as blanket checking most physical attackers that aren't named Centiskorch. Similarly to Ferroseed, this thing provides such much utility with Knock, Leech Seed, and status in sleep, toxic, or even paralysis which can make it a nightmare to come in against. It avoids being passive with Leaf Storm and you conserve momentum with Regenerator which is very important in a metagame that has been trending more offensively.
UR to B-
This very well should have been ranked somewhere previously but with Magneton's prevelance, Stunfisk has shown to be nearly as good, and in some cases better, than its Galarian counterpart. While Galarian Stunfisk has a slightly better overall defensive typing, it can stack weaknesses to Fire-types which can make it awkward to pair with Articuno, Tangela, etc on many builds. In addition, access to Toxic is great to prevent it from being overly passive while Galarfisk is reliant on Yawn and weak coverage to keep things at bay. A small but appreciated bonus is Static, punishing physical attackers like Cinccino and Kangaskan and unlike Mimicry, doesn't cripple Stunfisk by removing its typing while under Grassy Terrain.
(dark)
B- for sure, what I said before has become even more apparent; the opportunity cost of running darkvally over Ground or even Ghostvally is too high to justify this on the vast majority of teams. It has to pick and choose what it can break and you'll always be pretty much flat-out walled by opposing Dark-types, Fighting-types, or Fairy-types depending on what you go with, even beating stuff like Cofagrigus, which should be straightforward, is awkward if it has a Colbur Berry.
Stay in B-
Keep this where it is imo. NP Golbat has a solid niche over Skuntank for both outspeeding max speed articuno but also bypassing Sub Articuno due to Infiltrator. You have more overall longevity due to Roost which awards you more opportunities to setup. Defensive sets certainly have thier own niches as well though I didnt have a chance to build around that yet.
Saved some replays because I was contemplating nominating this up before realizing it was already in B ranks despite its low usage. I think this is an underrated mon, here are a couple showcasing it to give an idea:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1313929184 (Golbat is able to setup and break both galarfisk and articuno here. Its bulk is showcased here as it notably tanked Freeze-Dry from cuno here)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1313542133 (Golbat is able to setup on Audino and break past Galarfisk, dismantling the opponents Specially Defensive core.)
B+ to AI agree with gye5 on A rank for this. This is the best check to Silvally-Ground as well as blanket checking most physical attackers that aren't named Centiskorch. Similarly to Ferroseed, this thing provides such much utility with Knock, Leech Seed, and status in sleep, toxic, or even paralysis which can make it a nightmare to come in against. It avoids being passive with Leaf Storm and you conserve momentum with Regenerator which is very important in a metagame that has been trending more offensively.
UR to B-This very well should have been ranked somewhere previously but with Magneton's prevelance, Stunfisk has shown to be nearly as good, and in some cases better, than its Galarian counterpart. While Galarian Stunfisk has a slightly better overall defensive typing, it can stack weaknesses to Fire-types which can make it awkward to pair with Articuno, Tangela, etc on many builds. In addition, access to Toxic is great to prevent it from being overly passive while Galarfisk is reliant on Yawn and weak coverage to keep things at bay. A small but appreciated bonus is Static, punishing physical attackers like Cinccino and Kangaskan and unlike Mimicry, doesn't cripple Stunfisk by removing its typing while under Grassy Terrain.
(dark)B- for sure, what I said before has become even more apparent; the opportunity cost of running darkvally over Ground or even Ghostvally is too high to justify this on the vast majority of teams. It has to pick and choose what it can break and you'll always be pretty much flat-out walled by opposing Dark-types, Fighting-types, or Fairy-types depending on what you go with, even beating stuff like Cofagrigus, which should be straightforward, is awkward if it has a Colbur Berry.
Stay in B-Keep this where it is imo. NP Golbat has a solid niche over Skuntank for both outspeeding max speed articuno but also bypassing Sub Articuno due to Infiltrator. You have more overall longevity due to Roost which awards you more opportunities to setup. Defensive sets certainly have thier own niches as well though I didnt have a chance to build around that yet.
Saved some replays because I was contemplating nominating this up before realizing it was already in B ranks despite its low usage. I think this is an underrated mon, here are a couple showcasing it to give an idea:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1313929184 (Golbat is able to setup and break both galarfisk and articuno here. Its bulk is showcased here as it notably tanked Freeze-Dry from cuno here)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1313542133 (Golbat is able to setup on Audino and break past Galarfisk, dismantling the opponents Specially Defensive core.)
here are more of my nominations ! :D
drops :(
to A- or B+
rotom-fan sadly faces immense competition from regular rotom, and while it’s still an extremely good user of defog, it also faces competition in that regard. with the rise of other hazard removal mons like articuno, and the rise of counters like magneton and silvally-ground, i don’t see rotom-fan being the premier defog pivot it once was. still though, rotom-fan remains as a respectably solid choice on many different team builds, so it’s not like it’s bad.
to B-
it’s fun to troll with annoying defense drops and paralysis spreading, but cramorant is becoming more and more of a niche selection. its poor physical defenses are really starting to show, seeing how it can’t do a thing to many different physical wallbreakers. it’s always going to have that funny team support with gulp missile, but with tense competition as a defog user, cramorant isn’t nearly as good as its B+ ranking would tell you.
to C-
with frosmoth being better in almost every way, i feel like butterfree only has a fraction of a niche in zu. even when getting a quiver dance boost, revenge killing it is easy with the likes of scarf sawk and kangaskhan. having tinted lens and/or compound eyes is still enough for someone to justify using it over frosmoth, but not without a couple of head-scratches in response, and a couple of losses where you could’ve won if you just had frosmoth instead.
to A-
it still functions nicely as a special wallbreaker, that can disrupt stall with taunt. it’s admittedly a pretty unique niche in this current meta. with that being said, it can have a hard time against opposing offensive teams, as its middling speed tier makes it fazed by faster offensive threats. furthermore, in a tier where general offense is seeing a rise, this thing hates the fact that kangaskhan, silvally-ground, and sawk are found on most of these teams.
rises :)
to A+
i believe that the splashability of qwilfish goes under-appreciated, as it provides offensive and defensive support that makes it a great choice on almost all teams. we already know that it’s a fast spikes user than can phase physical wallbreakers with intimidate and rocky helmet. one thing i’ve noticed is that it’s one of, if not the best users of thunder wave in zu. with good speed and the intimidation factor to weaken the wallbreakers that hate getting paralyzed, it’s very easy to get off a twave and instantly support your teammates. not to mention, it can potentially KO paralyzed opponents, as paraflinch shenanigans with waterfall can potentially make a massive threat as good as dead, or at least significantly worn down. not to mention, it has longevity with pain split, but if not, then taunt can annoy walls & help a teammate switch in.
to B+
with a good speed tier and passable bulk for an offensive pokémon, ninetales can be difficult to handle once getting a nasty plot up. it does have some trouble against some special walls, but it’s nothing that can’t be handled by good teammates working around those weaknesses. furthermore, it also functions as a nice switch-in against fire type attacks. this means that it has lots of opportunities throughout the game to punch a hole into the opposing team, or even sweep. with there being few other nasty plot users the tier, ninetales carves out its own niche as a fast plotter who has unique coverage.
to B+
manectric is rising as one of the best choice users, as it separates itself by being both faster and stronger than most others. furthermore, it also stands out as one of the few choice users that can fit both an item switching move (switcheroo) and a pivoting move (volt switch) onto its moveset. although many argue that the frail nature of this pokémon makes it hard to use outside the context of voltturn or hyper offense, i see this pokémon rising alongside those two playstyles. most notably though, it’s the only offensive threat besides silvally-ground that can absorb opposing volt switches. i don’t expect people to agree with a B+ placement, but i genuinely feel like its great offensive stats alongside its underrated utility with switcheroo + volt switch + lightning rod, makes it one of the best choice users in zu. and yes, i feel like it’s enough to justify using it over other electric types that dominate the meta, like magneton and rotom.
to A
pretty much everyone agrees that magneton has turned into a defining pokémon in this meta, so i’m not going to explain much. it can trap and kill steel types, it’s strong, it’s bulky, you know the deal. not many pokémon can switch into a specs thunderbolt, especially if the pokémon on the field can’t even switch out to begin with.
drops :(
to A- or B+rotom-fan sadly faces immense competition from regular rotom, and while it’s still an extremely good user of defog, it also faces competition in that regard. with the rise of other hazard removal mons like articuno, and the rise of counters like magneton and silvally-ground, i don’t see rotom-fan being the premier defog pivot it once was. still though, rotom-fan remains as a respectably solid choice on many different team builds, so it’s not like it’s bad.
to B-it’s fun to troll with annoying defense drops and paralysis spreading, but cramorant is becoming more and more of a niche selection. its poor physical defenses are really starting to show, seeing how it can’t do a thing to many different physical wallbreakers. it’s always going to have that funny team support with gulp missile, but with tense competition as a defog user, cramorant isn’t nearly as good as its B+ ranking would tell you.
to C-with frosmoth being better in almost every way, i feel like butterfree only has a fraction of a niche in zu. even when getting a quiver dance boost, revenge killing it is easy with the likes of scarf sawk and kangaskhan. having tinted lens and/or compound eyes is still enough for someone to justify using it over frosmoth, but not without a couple of head-scratches in response, and a couple of losses where you could’ve won if you just had frosmoth instead.
to A-it still functions nicely as a special wallbreaker, that can disrupt stall with taunt. it’s admittedly a pretty unique niche in this current meta. with that being said, it can have a hard time against opposing offensive teams, as its middling speed tier makes it fazed by faster offensive threats. furthermore, in a tier where general offense is seeing a rise, this thing hates the fact that kangaskhan, silvally-ground, and sawk are found on most of these teams.
rises :)
to A+i believe that the splashability of qwilfish goes under-appreciated, as it provides offensive and defensive support that makes it a great choice on almost all teams. we already know that it’s a fast spikes user than can phase physical wallbreakers with intimidate and rocky helmet. one thing i’ve noticed is that it’s one of, if not the best users of thunder wave in zu. with good speed and the intimidation factor to weaken the wallbreakers that hate getting paralyzed, it’s very easy to get off a twave and instantly support your teammates. not to mention, it can potentially KO paralyzed opponents, as paraflinch shenanigans with waterfall can potentially make a massive threat as good as dead, or at least significantly worn down. not to mention, it has longevity with pain split, but if not, then taunt can annoy walls & help a teammate switch in.
to B+with a good speed tier and passable bulk for an offensive pokémon, ninetales can be difficult to handle once getting a nasty plot up. it does have some trouble against some special walls, but it’s nothing that can’t be handled by good teammates working around those weaknesses. furthermore, it also functions as a nice switch-in against fire type attacks. this means that it has lots of opportunities throughout the game to punch a hole into the opposing team, or even sweep. with there being few other nasty plot users the tier, ninetales carves out its own niche as a fast plotter who has unique coverage.
to B+manectric is rising as one of the best choice users, as it separates itself by being both faster and stronger than most others. furthermore, it also stands out as one of the few choice users that can fit both an item switching move (switcheroo) and a pivoting move (volt switch) onto its moveset. although many argue that the frail nature of this pokémon makes it hard to use outside the context of voltturn or hyper offense, i see this pokémon rising alongside those two playstyles. most notably though, it’s the only offensive threat besides silvally-ground that can absorb opposing volt switches. i don’t expect people to agree with a B+ placement, but i genuinely feel like its great offensive stats alongside its underrated utility with switcheroo + volt switch + lightning rod, makes it one of the best choice users in zu. and yes, i feel like it’s enough to justify using it over other electric types that dominate the meta, like magneton and rotom.
to Apretty much everyone agrees that magneton has turned into a defining pokémon in this meta, so i’m not going to explain much. it can trap and kill steel types, it’s strong, it’s bulky, you know the deal. not many pokémon can switch into a specs thunderbolt, especially if the pokémon on the field can’t even switch out to begin with.
UR to B/B-
With Articuno everywhere i have try this mon a lot and he was very good!
The Eviolite give you the bulk for free set up vs some mon like Rotom lock or rotom-fan without Wow, Thwakey, and some more defensive mon like Articuno , Uxie, Tangela , Clefairy.
Knok Off is actually pretty good and lot of team have clef/alcremis/vally for check KO...Iron Head destroy the two first when Pawn like vally was weakness..
Knok Off+Iron Head hit all the tier for good dommage except fat mon like Gurdur/Poliwrath when Sucker at +2 destroy some offensive team after Sawk/Vally-Ground/Persian-A is weakness....and is so ez when pawniard attract all of this.
+2 252+ Atk Pawniard Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Silvally-Ground: 195-231 (58.9 - 69.7%)
+2 252+ Atk Pawniard Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sawk: 118-140 (40.5 - 48.1%)
Knok Off is actually pretty good and lot of team have clef/alcremis/vally for check KO...Iron Head destroy the two first when Pawn like vally was weakness..
Lack of replay of Pawn sweep unfortunaly because i never take replay :s For sure if is not ranked this time i take replay for future update.
( Edit: afterwrite this a make a ladder match and just sweep with Pawniard after weakness Persian/Vally ground x) )
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1320239648
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I'll set up the slate in ~4 hours to give enough time for last second noms and for people to edit in replays to UR to ranked noms (i.e Pawniard, Raichu, Stunfisk). The thread will be locked then.
The noms I had in mind have already been made so instead I'll supply some replays for UR to ranked nominations:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1315852555 Defensive Cradily puts in work in the end-game
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1320357577 Came clutch vs Butterfree, pivoted into Morpeko
Will try to add more
The noms I had in mind have already been made so instead I'll supply some replays for UR to ranked nominations:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1315852555 Defensive Cradily puts in work in the end-game https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1320357577 Came clutch vs Butterfree, pivoted into MorpekoWill try to add more
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