Metagame SS NU Metagame Discussion

[Corthius]

Thats right, its getting hot cold in here.
AZolt is my fav. fossil of the new gen and I wanted to make the best of it, since its may be the worst of them all.

I currently ran this set : https://pokepast.es/95e853579c23e54c
Now with T-Wave/Rock Tomb it looks really gimmicky but it really helps this things poor speed and allow it to hit first with a strong Bolt Beak. Speaking of BB with Magnet it has a base power of 102, double that and you have a nuke to everything that isnt immune to it. "Boltbeam" is famous for being a great coverage in general and besides Frosttom, this is the only mon that has STAB on that.
I paired this mon with Glare Sandaconda to even paralyze Ground-Types that Sandaconda checks decently. I guess Sticky Web works too but Im not really a huge fan of that so I went with that. Glare Drampa also is a nice partner for the reason of having Glare. Also Drampa hits like a truck.
Discharge is an option on your Rotoms to fish for paras as well. Basically this mon needs speed and as long as its HA is not released yet we can run Trick Room or more niche stuff like this one.
When I see these mons I always asume that they have terrible defensives but it packs some decent bulk on its shoulders.
All in all its not going to have such a huge impact on the meta as Mantine or Toxicroak but be aware of its strong attacks.


is cute and fat.

 

[lax]

trying out lower tiers in new gens is really fun and I started playing some nu ladder today. think there's a lot of potential for a fun metagame and will be a lot more diverse in playstyle, completely different from SM. hopefully home and the dlc doesn't add a bunch of ass, but it probably will knowing gamefreak. anyways here's a messy as fuck post w my early thoughts

when I initially saw the mons allowed I thought webs & rain would be op cuz vikavolt can always get them up and does a shit ton of damage always.

I assumed rain was good cuz mantine & drednaw are allowed and are crazy under rain, but setting up rain is actually hard as hell and abomasnow is a massive threat. I tried liepard for rain, metronome cane/surf/hydro/roost mantine and sr/liquid/edge/superpower drednaw. my other rain setter was rain dance weather ball jolteon, which helps make up for its lack of hidden power coverage. tl;dr of trying rain tho is its trash cuz its impossible to get rain up with abomasnow in the tier and actually being a threat lmao

vikavolt bo/offense was really strong as expected, you always need to run a spinblocker just like hazard stacking in the other SS lower tiers. my favorite ghost type to block is cofag with wisp/bpress/shadow ball/toxic spikes cuz nothing can kill it and it bones every spinner. even tho it doesn't do enough to mr. mime, you can chip it for a ton then revenge it while still keeping your hazards up

one of the best rockers to me is sandaconda, pretty solid bulk + strong eq + free paraspam is super nice. none of the defoggers can switch into it and the spinners are pretty trash so you just para/eq and go to your ghost type

honestly thought unfezant and haunter are pretty trash. unfezant can't switch into anything, is actually super slow at 313 max speed, slower than shit like mr. mime is really annoying. haunter also isn't so fast, so while it has no real switch-ins, it can pretty much never come in outside of a u-turn/volt or aggressive double and has no defense

overall ladder is pretty fun so it'll be interesting to see how things develop

some sets: I forgot how to do spoilers

(use with abomasnow for ice or sandaconda for rock)
Jolteon @ Zap Plate
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Volt Switch
- Weather Ball
- Rain Dance

Drednaw @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Liquidation
- Superpower
- Megahorn

Vikavolt @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sticky Web
- Volt Switch
- Bug Buzz
- Energy Ball

 

[glock in my toyota]

hi all! after playing this tier extensively for the last few days and reaching #1 on ladder just a little while ago i'd like to post some thoughts.

first thought! defensive hazard stacking cores are stronger than they've ever been.

hazards are broken. this is not news. especially defensive cores that can handle most of the tier while using free turns to stack hazards. with such a lack of removal, these cores are able to apply way more pressure on teams than it may seem. as a result, heavy duty boots have become, in my opinion, arguably the best item in the meta. cofagrigus as a whole is a pokemon that i think has flown entirely under the radar with its ability to wall most phys attackers in the tier, spinblock, hit hard with body press, spread status, and throw up tspikes (an extremely strong hazard atm). all of these pokemon are surprisingly versatile and this core alone can wall far too many meta threats.

Rhydon @ Eviolite
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Rock Polish
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

hoooly shit this thing is so good. rhydon's physical bulk is insane even when uninvested, and the double dance set can get free turns against sooo many meta threats rn. between the abundance of choice users, and the rising popularity of things like unfezant (for some reason), garbodor, rapidash and so many more, rhydon can get free turns and earn himself so many surprise sweeps, or just break massive holes in teams for other cleaners to take advantage of. in addition, rhydon has an advantage in that many people simply assume it is a bulky rocker 99% of the time. dude also hits like a truck without needing an sd. i think and i hope that in due time people will realize how much of a premier offensive mon rhydon is, and if it continues to take advantage of meta trends as it is doing currently, its definitely something to keep an eye on.

i've really enjoyed this meta so far, and hope that it gets more time to develop before pokehome fucks everything up lol.

 

[Elias PSY]

Mr. Mime-Galar @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Screen Cleaner
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Freeze-Dry
- Rapid Spin
- Shadow Ball
- Nasty Plot / Psyshock

Like hitmonchan/top mr.mime have a hard time to spin vs cofagrigus who is a big threat with toxic spikes and the lack of hazards removal.
Thanks to shadow ball,mr mime can catch it offguard.
Can ohko with nasty plot but psyshock is an option if u need a toxicroak check

Calcs

252 SpA Mr. Mime-Galar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cofagrigus: 130-154 (40.6 - 48.1%) -- 64.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Mr. Mime-Galar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cofagrigus: 260-306 (81.2 - 95.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[An Explosion]

Mr. Mime-Galar @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Screen Cleaner
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Freeze-Dry
- Psyshock
- Shadow Ball
- Nasty Plot / Psyshock

Like hitmonchan/top mr.mime have a hard time to spin vs cofagrigus who is a big threat with toxic spikes and the lack of hazards removal.
Thanks to shadow ball,mr mime can catch it offguard.
Can ohko with nasty plot but psyshock is an option if u need a toxicroak check

Calcs

252 SpA Mr. Mime-Galar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cofagrigus: 130-154 (40.6 - 48.1%) -- 64.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Abomasnow Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cofagrigus: 260-306 (81.2 - 95.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

why is psyshock listed twice

 

[Elias PSY]

why is psyshock listed twice

Fixed!

 

[shiloh]

been playing a bit of the meta and ive been pleasantly surprised by the tier. there are def quite a few mons that are fun to use, and i cant wait to see how the tier shapes up.

easily my favorite mon in this meta so far. it might not be the best, or the most broken, but god damn is it fun to use. its insanely hard to kill from the physical side, and leech seed is really nice vs a majority of the meta. just being able to sit on things via leech + recover makes it a staple on most balances for me, especially considering how well it fits with other balance mons like flareon/lanturn. atm ive mainly been using a physdef set to check the multitude of ground type/physical attackers in the tier, and its done a great job at doing that. ive also toyed around with both a specs/curse set tho i have less experience with them so i cant really talk about them much.

sets: physdef / specs / curse

would definitely recommend this mon to anyone trying this tier.

other mons ive been enjoying:

rocks
only used rock sets so far on this guy (think coil has some potential as well), but its been surprisingly good for me. while i think rhydon is still better as a glue mon on some teams due to the flying resist+secondary rock stab which is fairly threatening; sandaconda still has a niche with glare + outpacing rhydon so you can actually check it w/ sandaconda itself. while im still on the fence on whether or not being able to hit unfezant/other levi mons like haunter is useful (it probably is) rest has proven invaluable in a lot of games so i think it just comes down to team/player preference when choosing on the last slot. overall another great addition to the tier, and im sure people will find more creative ways to use it in the future as well.

wish
not a new mon, but god damn is spdef flareon great atm. with great spdef + boots, most special attackers cant break through this mon at all, as previous gen ways of chipping it via hazards is no longer viable. being able to pass wishes to mons w/o recovery like lanturn is great, as well as just being able to recover itself without having to worry about hazards. blitz from this mon is also threatening in itself, as base 130atk even when univested deals a decent amount of damage to most neutral targets. makes me wonder if there is a way to go more offensive w/ a move like curse or superpower>wisp in the last slot. either way atm, wisp is still great as it can scare a lot of physical attackers like rhydon from coming into it due to how crippled they get by it.

boots / scarf
another old mon, but this time it got a buff in brave bird, actually letting it finally be viable in a tier. at first i was wary of using anything but the scarf set, but after someone in the nu room mentioned how boots was actually putting in work for them as a defogger, i decided to try it out myself. it actually turned out to be a reliable pivot on the teams i used it on and i was pleasantly surprised. while people have already mentioned how good scarf is at being a reliable revenge killer, i would recommend trying boots on teams that would like the additional hazard removal, as well as just a fast pivot with a high powered stab move backing it up. im glad this mon finally got bb tho, was fairly sad last gen when i saw it had fog and then took like 5 mins to learn it didnt actually have brave bird :(

overall while this meta is far from perfect, im having fun playing it atm and hope more people try it out.

 

[Pabloaram]

been playing a bit of the meta and ive been pleasantly surprised by the tier. there are def quite a few mons that are fun to use, and i cant wait to see how the tier shapes up.

easily my favorite mon in this meta so far. it might not be the best, or the most broken, but god damn is it fun to use. its insanely hard to kill from the physical side, and leech seed is really nice vs a majority of the meta. just being able to sit on things via leech + recover makes it a staple on most balances for me, especially considering how well it fits with other balance mons like flareon/lanturn. atm ive mainly been using a physdef set to check the multitude of ground type/physical attackers in the tier, and its done a great job at doing that. ive also toyed around with both a specs/curse set tho i have less experience with them so i cant really talk about them much.

sets: physdef / specs / curse

would definitely recommend this mon to anyone trying this tier.

other mons ive been enjoying:

rocks
only used rock sets so far on this guy (think coil has some potential as well), but its been surprisingly good for me. while i think rhydon is still better as a glue mon on some teams due to the flying resist+secondary rock stab which is fairly threatening; sandaconda still has a niche with glare + outpacing rhydon so you can actually check it w/ sandaconda itself. while im still on the fence on whether or not being able to hit unfezant/other levi mons like haunter is useful (it probably is) rest has proven invaluable in a lot of games so i think it just comes down to team/player preference when choosing on the last slot. overall another great addition to the tier, and im sure people will find more creative ways to use it in the future as well.

wish
not a new mon, but god damn is spdef flareon great atm. with great spdef + boots, most special attackers cant break through this mon at all, as previous gen ways of chipping it via hazards is no longer viable. being able to pass wishes to mons w/o recovery like lanturn is great, as well as just being able to recover itself without having to worry about hazards. blitz from this mon is also threatening in itself, as base 130atk even when univested deals a decent amount of damage to most neutral targets. makes me wonder if there is a way to go more offensive w/ a move like curse or superpower>wisp in the last slot. either way atm, wisp is still great as it can scare a lot of physical attackers like rhydon from coming into it due to how crippled they get by it.

boots / scarf
another old mon, but this time it got a buff in brave bird, actually letting it finally be viable in a tier. at first i was wary of using anything but the scarf set, but after someone in the nu room mentioned how boots was actually putting in work for them as a defogger, i decided to try it out myself. it actually turned out to be a reliable pivot on the teams i used it on and i was pleasantly surprised. while people have already mentioned how good scarf is at being a reliable revenge killer, i would recommend trying boots on teams that would like the additional hazard removal, as well as just a fast pivot with a high powered stab move backing it up. im glad this mon finally got bb tho, was fairly sad last gen when i saw it had fog and then took like 5 mins to learn it didnt actually have brave bird :(

overall while this meta is far from perfect, im having fun playing it atm and hope more people try it out.

what mon did you have with this "team".. could you link the pokepast

 

[UnfortunateSal]

This tier seems surprisingly diverse in terms of how many potent threats it has. One thing I'm surprised I haven't seen mentioned yet:


Discount Conkeldurr (Throh) @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 132 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Storm Throw
- Facade
- Earthquake
- Payback

If you have ever used Guts Conkeldurr in OU, you know how this thing works. It hits hard as hell and is deceptively bulky for something that's taking damage every turn. You can probably fit Bulk Up over EQ or Payback, not 100% sure which of these is necessary. I'm not sure how much speed to give it, so I just gave it enough for 0 speed base 60s like Abomasnow. But yeah, this thing has to compete with Toxicroak, and Hitmonchan as a Fighting-type, but it truly is is fantastic, try it out.

Short replay of it in action:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1059472147

oh yeah also Rotom-Frost is absolutely devastating as long as you can hit that 70% Blizzard chance, and Shiinotic is a huge pain in the ass with Sip Sapper and Effect Spore, highly reccomend both.

 

[Fusion Flare]

tier epic, very diverse, give thought


I love AV Lanturn rn. It's most likely one of the best pivots in the tier RN, especially when you need to keep away Pokemon like Togedemaru, Mantine, Manectric and Rotom-Frost, spreading burns and paralysis(Discharge) all the while. Truly in my opinion a reliable mon
of the metagame.

This mon is mad stupid to switch into. You're either setting up aurora veil to support your teammates, or you're about to throw into space with Blizzards, Giga Drains, and an Earth Power if you catch those pesky steel and fire mons. veil is meta-changing for this tier, but in time,
we'll see how it fares.

perish.

 

[quziel]

Yo, just here to highlight a really cool set that I have seen literally noone else running, "physdef" cursola. Its not actually physdef, because it still has major struggles with physical attacks, but the difference is that you can avoid an OHKO from stuff like Hitmonchan's Throat Chop and Toxicroak's Gunk/Sucker, instead of just folding over to them, which means that you can easily 1v1 them with correct prediction. All of this while still being able to run a Modest Nature and being able to actually damage stuff with 15,000 spA.

Cursola @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Perish Body
EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 16 SpA / 4 SpD / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Strength Sap
- Earth Power
- Shadow Ball

Now, I'm not trying to claim that this set is Cursola's best, that really goes to the SR Focus Sash Lead, but its a really cool pick that you can do some really cool stuff on preview with, eg running SR Cursola + DD Rhydon to fake out your opponent on which mon is running which set, or even simply being able to run a mon that can easily 1v1 Cofag as your rocker (defensive doesn't manage a 2hko). Also this mon takes little damage from anything standard Vika can do, which is a huge advantage on the lead matchup. As to why HDB and not Lefties; I hate Tspikes. Finally, Perish Body means you basically cannot lose to Dubwool, which is worth a metric ton atm.

TL;DR Physdef Cursola maintains good offensive power and can semi-reliably switch into a lot more stuff than regular Cursola, while being able to outplay with Strength Sap and while providing a unique rocker.

calcs

Physically Defensive:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 228 Def Cursola: 269-317 (83 - 97.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Hitmonchan Throat Chop vs. 252 HP / 228 Def Cursola: 204-240 (62.9 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Rhydon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 228 Def Cursola: 220-259 (67.9 - 79.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Dubwool Payback (50 BP) vs. 252 HP / 228 Def Cursola: 74-88 (22.8 - 27.1%) -- 45.2% chance to 4HKO

Specially Defensive:
0 SpA Cofagrigus Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cursola: 134-158 (41.3 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Haunter Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cursola: 288-338 (88.8 - 104.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Vikavolt Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cursola: 109-129 (33.6 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Toxicroak Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cursola: 273-322 (84.2 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Also use more Special Silvallys.

 

[GhostyTrickster]

Yo, just here to highlight a really cool set that I have seen literally noone else running, "physdef" cursola. Its not actually physdef, because it still has major struggles with physical attacks, but the difference is that you can avoid an OHKO from stuff like Hitmonchan's Throat Chop and Toxicroak's Gunk/Sucker, instead of just folding over to them, which means that you can easily 1v1 them with correct prediction. All of this while still being able to run a Modest Nature and being able to actually damage stuff with 15,000 spA.

Cursola @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Perish Body
EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 16 SpA / 4 SpD / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Strength Sap
- Earth Power
- Shadow Ball

Now, I'm not trying to claim that this set is Cursola's best, that really goes to the SR Focus Sash Lead, but its a really cool pick that you can do some really cool stuff on preview with, eg running SR Cursola + DD Rhydon to fake out your opponent on which mon is running which set, or even simply being able to run a mon that can easily 1v1 Cofag as your rocker (defensive doesn't manage a 2hko). Also this mon takes little damage from anything standard Vika can do, which is a huge advantage on the lead matchup. As to why HDB and not Lefties; I hate Tspikes. Finally, Perish Body means you basically cannot lose to Dubwool, which is worth a metric ton atm.

TL;DR Physdef Cursola maintains good offensive power and can semi-reliably switch into a lot more stuff than regular Cursola, while being able to outplay with Strength Sap and while providing a unique rocker.

calcs

Physically Defensive:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 228 Def Cursola: 269-317 (83 - 97.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Hitmonchan Throat Chop vs. 252 HP / 228 Def Cursola: 204-240 (62.9 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Rhydon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 228 Def Cursola: 220-259 (67.9 - 79.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Dubwool Payback (50 BP) vs. 252 HP / 228 Def Cursola: 74-88 (22.8 - 27.1%) -- 45.2% chance to 4HKO

Specially Defensive:
0 SpA Cofagrigus Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cursola: 134-158 (41.3 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Haunter Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cursola: 288-338 (88.8 - 104.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Vikavolt Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cursola: 109-129 (33.6 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Toxicroak Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cursola: 273-322 (84.2 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Also use more Special Silvallys.

I just ran into a Cursola that used Perish Body to limit my turns with No Retreat Falinks. I thought it was a very cool usage of the ability. Jolly Falinks with Lum Berry looks like it isn't something to sneeze at from the looks of things so far. I think there is a lot more potential for Cursola than I initially thought. At least, if I am comparing to Galar-Corsola.

Regarding Unfezant, I wish Return was a move in this Gen. Still, Brave Bird really helps Unfezant's viability I feel. Defog with Heavy Boots was a huge buff alone. Access to U-Turn helps keep the momentum. I think deciding between Boots and Scope Lens is a matter of preference and team composition though. Either way Brave Bird helps keep the Fighting-Types in the tier "in check". Hitmonchan and Hitmontop are the only spinners we have right now in the tier IIRC. Being able to threaten them while also having that utility at your disposal is understandable helpful.

Finally, I'd like to talk about a particular Orbeetle set.

Orbeetle @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 248 HP / 252Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Psychic / Stored Power
- Bug Buzz
- Giga Drain / Shadow Ball
- Recover

This is one bulky bug. It boasts an impressive 90 base speed no less! I've been able to get set-ups with this thing in Battle Spot Singles too. Depending on rolls, this thing can even threaten a +1 Attack/Sp. Def Falinks. Just make sure you don't fall prey to Stealth Rock!

 

[Pro_Hybrid]

So I tried messing around with what a stall team would look like in this current meta, and came up with this build that's gotten me to the mid 1300s in the ladder: https://pokepast.es/22c68d52a783d18b

Shedinja with Boots honestly walls quite a bit in the tier, including a few breakers that otherwise would mess this team up (the Arcto-fossils, Vikavolt, Rapidash-Galar, Perrserker). Noctowl is pretty nice as a Defogger with it's great special bulk, sleep immunity, and ability to phase setup sweepers. Appletun and Cofag will probably be staples on stall or even just balance playstyles.

This build struggles with Abomasnow because of Hail, I considered Flamethrower on Clefairy to help out. Haunter is also a problem.

 

[Cantius]

After practicing on ladder, it's time for me to give my thoughts about some Pokemon that haven't been discussed much:

Diglett just seems too weak. Its measly 55 Attack hasn't done much for me. Toxicroak or whatever it's supposed to trap isn't common enough for it to have use in most games. I once put it on a stall team but chose Sandaconda, which has more utility as a wall and as a Stealth Rock setter or a late-game wincon with Coil. Diglett can't even 2HKO Rhydon when Rhydon has no defensive investment and Diglett is Adamant:
252+ Atk Diglett Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 120-144 (34.1 - 41%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

As a bulky sweeper, Klinklang has been doing very well for me. What sets its pure Steel typing apart from Ferroseed is its resistances to Bug, Ice, and Flying, which let it wall Unfezant and Galarian Mr Mime. I run Gear Grind + Shift Gear + Rest + Sleep Talk. Wild Charge is an option for Water-types like Mantine and Mareanie. I mostly use Klinklang in the early game as a switch-in that can wall many attacks. The possibility of a sweep with Shift Gear often causes your opponent to switch in a Steel resist, creating opportunities to gain a free turn through a double switch. When the opponent's Steel resists have been eliminated, Klinklang can be a threatening sweeper.

Clefairy is a stall team's choice for an Aromatherapy cleric that also boasts Wish and Stealth Rock. Magic Guard prevents it from having to waste its Aromatherapy PP on itself when facing a Toxic user. Its main drawback, however, is a lack of a good attacking move; Moonblast is too weak coming off 60 Special Attack, while it doesn't have Seismic Toss yet. On the topic of stall, the archetype seems to really struggle with Trick. My strategy to deal with this is the switch in Unfezant or Noctowl to retain Choice Scarf Unfezant-like utility. You want to make sure to not have an Eviolite Pokemon like Ferroseed or Clefairy on the field when any item other than Eviolite is being Tricked. The problem with Trick may be alleviated when Silvally gets utility options like Toxic and Defog since it cannot be Tricked.

I think Scrafty's better than what many people give it credit for. Its dual STABs hit most of the metagame at least neutrally. Moxie is dangerous, and its snowball effect means you do not want Scrafty to set up Dragon Dance more than twice. Lum Berry is useful to not be shut down by Will-o-Wisp. It often forces mindgames against Unfezant because the use of Defog or U-turn will allow Scrafty to set up Dragon Dance. Chople Berry and Coba Berry are other possible items, and Bulk Up is an alternate setup move.

Mini OU Toxapex, not much to be said. A solid wall and check to the omnipresent Fighting-types. I prefer Scald/Haze/Toxic since Toxic Spikes doesn't do much for me.

 

[DavidDMS]

People have been sleeping on Nasty Plot Cofagrigus. It's amazing natural bulk allows it to easily set up and punch wholes through teams, which allows the other teammates to clean up the mess. Leftovers and Life Orb provide their own benefits. While LO ensures the KO on certain Pokemon after one Nasty Plot, the residual recovery from Leftovers can help Cofagrigus tank a Sucker Punch or set up Trick Room again. Unfortunately, it has little special coverage after the removal of HP fighting. Energy Ball guarantees the kill on Rhydon and bulky waters, but Body Press is useful when facing Silvally-Dark and Sneasel.

Cofagrigus @ Leftovers/Life Orb
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Trick Room
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Body Press/Energy Ball

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1060702706

 

[theotherguytm]

Diglett just seems too weak. Its measly 55 Attack hasn't done much for me. Toxicroak or whatever it's supposed to trap isn't common enough for it to have use in most games. I once put it on a stall team but chose Sandaconda, which has more utility as a wall and as a Stealth Rock setter or a late-game wincon with Coil. Diglett can't even 2HKO Rhydon when Rhydon has no defensive investment and Diglett is Adamant:
252+ Atk Diglett Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 120-144 (34.1 - 41%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Diglett Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 180-212 (51.1 - 60.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Diglett Reversal (200 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 158-188 (44.8 - 53.4%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Diglett Reversal (200 BP) vs. -2 4 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 316-374 (89.7 - 106.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (best case)
252+ Atk Rhydon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Diglett: 492-579 (305.5 - 359.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Yep. Even with a free switch in, CB EQ only 2HKOs, with a Focus Sash EQ into Reversal doesn't kill, and even Screech into Reversal doesn't guarantee the kill. Though it can serve as a suicide rocker for certain HOs that doubles as revenge killer, as it does have Memento. Diglett generally needs chip to do its job.
To be fair to poor little Diglett:
252+ Atk Choice Band Trapinch/Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 254-302 (72.1 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Even its fellow trappers have serious problems with Rhydon's bulk and firepower.

 

[Corthius]

Im presenting you:

(klick me)
Im very surprised I neve saw someone talking about Basculin even it can hit really hard. I tried different sets (scarf/orb/ebelt/band) and this one entertained me the most. With Reckless Head Smash because stronger that Liquidation (when hitting neutral) with a BP of 180. This 2hko almost every thing I can think that switches in on the fish normaly (except Dubwool) with rocks up.

Calcs

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Basculin Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 141-167 (44 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Basculin Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 100-118 (31.2 - 36.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Basculin Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lanturn: 255-300 (56.1 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Basculin Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Appletun: 212-250 (50 - 58.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Basculin Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 159-188 (42.5 - 50.2%) -- 39.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
(0 SpA Expert Belt Basculin Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gourgeist-Super: 163-194 (43.5 - 51.8%) -- 68.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery)

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Basculin Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pyukumuku: 153-180 (48.7 - 57.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

At first I tried to run Choice Band with a balanced team but that didnt really worked out for me. So I looked at the calcs and thought: mh maybe I just should run spikes-offensiv to increase the odds of 2hkoing those mons. And holy sh*t that thing dishes out the big damage. The speed is just great and outspeeds most of the meta.
What can be annoying is that you basically kill yourself by klicking Head Smash on some mons with high HP-stats like Lanturn or Appletun. That does cut into its late-game clearing potential since its really delicated to priority.
Use this mon more, it needs some love and its not underwhelming at all!

(klick me)
Im surprised that this mon isnt spammed more on the ladder. Imo its way better that Jolteon. It has a awesome movepool and access to Nasty Plot plus its really fast too. The only thing that really switches into +2 Life Orb Raichu safely is maybe Lanturn BUT thats where luring Lanturn with CB Basculin Head Smash comes in really handy. I also think Lightning Rod works better than Volt Absorb on an offensiv team 'cause
longevity < doing damage.


Thats all from me, have a great day.

 

[GhostyTrickster]

Rhydon is looking like a monster with Eviolite on paper. I've heard some people talk about it as well. I've seen it around a decent bit too.

Rhydon @ Eviolite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- [FILLER]
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Hammer Arm

Damage Dealt and Received

252+ Atk Rhydon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Drednaw: 390-462 (121.4 - 143.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Drednaw Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 292-348 (70.5 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Rhydon Earthquake vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Sawk: 340-402 (116.8 - 138.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO AFTER CCombat’s DEF DROP.
252 Atk Choice Band Sawk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 326-386 (78.7 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Rhydon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Perrserker: 356-422 (103.4 - 122.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Perrserker Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 282-334 (68.1 - 80.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The things that immediately come to mind as checks are Kingler and Cofagrigus. Cofagirus doesn't have to worry about Crunch as a coverage move even without Colbur Berry. Jolly Life Orb Drednaw also has a chance to OHKO Rhydon but the roll isn't its favor.

252 Atk Life Orb Drednaw Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 380-452 (91.7 - 109.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

I'll wait for the usage stats to come out some more but Gourgeist may be a potential problem as well.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Silvally Dark eats this meta alive, it really abuses Veil, fighting types, and the u turn style of play. It can afford to run either nature and really beats on some walls

Silvally-Dark @ Dark Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Multi-Attack
- U-turn
- Psychic Fangs

+2 252+ Atk Silvally-Dark Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Colbur Berry Cofagrigus: 250-295 (78.1 - 92.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

If You're not worried about fighting types switching into u-turn/priority mach/scarf then You can squeeze in coverage for the bulky ground types cause it's movepool is fat.

Dark isn't commonly resisted and pairs well with u turn in a nut shell probably a B mon

 

[Corthius]

As quziel wished here is my fav special Silvally:
(dragon)
https://pokepast.es/a5ddc8f4507e0c22

this feels like a little throw back to gen7 PU where this thing was a very common pivot since its dracos hit decently hard and has a wide coverage. Now u can decide which moves u wanna run; me personally had good success witch Steel Beam/Draco/PShot/Flamethrower. It acted like a check to electric/grass-types like Gourgeist, Jolt, Kingler (not at +2).
95 speed is really fast in the currend post home-meta so it can Parting Shot most of the time first and bring in your mons safetly.

If I have to think of another vally-type i would suggest Silvally-Flying with Air Slash shenanigans + Surf/Ice Beam/Flamethrower and stuff.

Thats all from me, have a great day.

 

[Quite Quiet]

So I've been messing around with Sun for a bit, mostly as a joke. I never really considered this team viable, because it's overly reliant on Vulpix, and the abusers are barely passable. Somehow, despite this, its turned out all-right. The team looks really janky on paper, but it's been fun to use and it can win games which is the most important thing.


Jolteon and Rhydon are the only mons here that would be actually usable outside of this specific niche. Don't use the others unless it's on sun.

Vulpix is my one and only sun setter. This is pretty bad, but it's usually enough to get it in twice unless they're counterteaming you by using a different weather. You have a winning matchup (and is faster) against Hail and Abomasnow though, so at least there's that. Vulpix has no offenses to speak of, so I've been using an utility set to give free switches for my abusers and prevent setups. I think it's pretty much the best set it could run, it does something beside just setting up sun (shoutouts Hippopotas) which is all I could ask for.

Maractus and Gloom are the two main abusers. Maractus is fast enough to outspeed scarfed 95s, which is usually fast enough. Solar Beam + Weather Ball pseudo-stab is good enough coverage with Growth to break holes in teams. Glooms is pretty much only here as insurance against Appletun. It is pretty pathetically slow even under Sun, so slow even non-scarf Jolteon still outspeeds by 2 points. It's the best option for beating Appletun and having a reliable Grass stab, though. The Poison typing also comes in handy for getting some switch-in opportunities (not that you'd want to switch in, but you can).

Jolteon is, somehow, a weather abuser. I originally put it on as safeguard against Rain and as a general fast-mon that could abuse Weather Ball. It does pretty much exactly that. Rhydon sets rocks, and is the only bulky Pokemon on this team. It's offensive, because obviously it has to be. Rock Polish is filler, but it could technically come in handy and let you reverse-sweep if you get to set up on something like Vullaby or Unfezant.

Heatmor is basically filler. It's a bit better as a physical fire type than Flareon, because of Sucker Punch and actual coverage options. Usually doesn't accomplish too much, but it is passable and gets an electric move to hit Mantine with, I guess.

Other options you could consider (though I think they're bad) is (apparently this is an okay option according to some, but I'm not buying it) (has no actual niche beyond being faster than the other mons), (worse than Heatmor imo), (fire) (could work I guess, never tried), (directly competes with Maractus for a slot, but doesn't get Weather Ball), and (lolno).

Random roomtour I accidentally won: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1061656288

tl;dr: drought is the only reason this meme of a team works.

thank me later

Heatmor @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Fire Lash
- Giga Drain
- Sucker Punch
- Thunder Punch

Maractus @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Solar Beam
- Weather Ball
- Growth
- Hyper Voice

Gloom @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Energy Ball
- Strength Sap
- Moonblast

Vulpix @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Encore
- Fire Blast
- Foul Play

Jolteon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Weather Ball
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt

Rhydon @ Eviolite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
- Rock Polish

 

[GhostyTrickster]

I'm trying my hand at ranking speed tiers! I threw in Scarf Persian and Scarf Raichu though I doubt people will be running those. It's still far from complete but feedback on formatting is requested. Let me know if anything seems off. Have a good one!

Stat Stage / Extra Modifier / Nature / Pokemon / EVs / Speed Stat

The Numbers

+1 Positive Ninjask / 252 EVs – 690 Speed
+3 Positive Butterfree / 252 EVs – 655 Speed
+1 Positive Ninjask / 120 EVs – 636 Speed
Chlorophyll Positive Leafeon / 252 EVs – 634 Speed
+1 Neutral Ninjask / 156 EVs – 592 Speed
+1 Positive Jolteon / 252 EVs – 591 Speed
+2 Neutral Klinklang / 252 EVs – 558 Speed
+1 Positive Persian / 252 EVs – 541 Speed
+1 Neutral Jolteon / 252 EVs – 538 Speed
+1 Positive Raichu / 252 EVs – 525 Speed
+2 Positive Butterfree / 252 EVs – 524 Speed
+1 Positive Manectric / 252 EVs – 508 Speed
+1 Positive Rapidash / 252 EVs – 508 Speed
+1 Neutral Persian / 252 EVs – 493 Speed

Neutral Ninjask / 216 EVs – 410 Speed
+1 Positive Falinks / 252 EVs – 409 Speed
Positive Jolteon / 252 EVs – 394 Speed
+1 Positive Butterfree / 252 EVs – 393 Speed
+1 Positive Hitmontop / 252 EVs – 393 Speed
+1 Neutral Falinks / 252 EVs – 373 Speed
Positive Persian / 252 EVs – 361 Speed
Neutral Jolteon / 252 EVs – 359 Speed
Positive Swoobat / 252 EVs – 359 Speed
Positive Raichu / 252 EVs – 350 Speed
+1 Positive Arctovish / 252 EVs – 343 Speed
+1 Positive Arctozolt / 252 EVs – 343 Speed
Positive Liepard / 252 EVs – 342 Speed
Positive Manectric / 252 EVs – 339 Speed
Positive Rapidash / 252 EVs – 339 Speed
Neutral Persian / 252 EVs – 329 Speed
Neutral Swoobat / 252 EVs – 327 Speed
Positive Haunter / 252 EVs – 317 Speed
Positive Leafeon / 252 EVs – 317 Speed
Positive Sillvally / 252 EVs – 317 Speed
Positive Unfezant / 252 EVs – 313 Speed
Neutral Liepard / 252 EVs – 311 Speed
Neutral Manectric / 252 EVs – 309 Speed
Neutral Meowstic / 252 EVs – 307 Speed
Positive Cherrim / 252 EVs – 295 Speed
Positive Sawk / 252 EVs – 295 Speed
Positive Toxicroak / 252 EVs – 295 Speed
Positive Butterfree / 252 EVs – 262 Speed
Positive Hitmontop / 252 EVs – 262 Speed

Neutral Pyukumuku / 0 EVs – 46 Speed
Neutral Shuckle / 0 EVs – 46 Speed

Update #1: Changed how natures are listed to show either, "Positive" or "Neutral". More Pokemon and numbers have also been added.

Icons for the Pokemon will be added as soon as I figure out how to get that to copy over from my Microsoft program, haha.

 

[Fragmented]

Was anybody going to tell me that Pokemon Home was out or was I supposed to find out by myself?

Knock Off:

Defog:

Roost:

Toxic:

Heal Bell:

Synthesis:

Belly Drum:

Probably missing some stuff. Once showdown updates, the meta is going to shake up for sure, now with more hazard removal options in Silvally and Rotom formes and Mantine, more clerics and recovery, and the return of the Knock Off distribution. Home being out also means hidden abilities are released. Notably:

Prankster

Prankster

Simple

No Guard

Tinted Lens

Mold Breaker


We will get the Kanto and other regional formes eventually (hopefully).

 

[Corthius]

Nasty Plot + Simple Swoobat looks devastating
Finally some mons with Mold Breaker!

 

[Pabloaram]

So I've been messing around with Sun for a bit, mostly as a joke. I never really considered this team viable, because it's overly reliant on Vulpix, and the abusers are barely passable. Somehow, despite this, its turned out all-right. The team looks really janky on paper, but it's been fun to use and it can win games which is the most important thing.


Jolteon and Rhydon are the only mons here that would be actually usable outside of this specific niche. Don't use the others unless it's on sun.

Vulpix is my one and only sun setter. This is pretty bad, but it's usually enough to get it in twice unless they're counterteaming you by using a different weather. You have a winning matchup (and is faster) against Hail and Abomasnow though, so at least there's that. Vulpix has no offenses to speak of, so I've been using an utility set to give free switches for my abusers and prevent setups. I think it's pretty much the best set it could run, it does something beside just setting up sun (shoutouts Hippopotas) which is all I could ask for.

Maractus and Gloom are the two main abusers. Maractus is fast enough to outspeed scarfed 95s, which is usually fast enough. Solar Beam + Weather Ball pseudo-stab is good enough coverage with Growth to break holes in teams. Glooms is pretty much only here as insurance against Appletun. It is pretty pathetically slow even under Sun, so slow even non-scarf Jolteon still outspeeds by 2 points. It's the best option for beating Appletun and having a reliable Grass stab, though. The Poison typing also comes in handy for getting some switch-in opportunities (not that you'd want to switch in, but you can).

Jolteon is, somehow, a weather abuser. I originally put it on as safeguard against Rain and as a general fast-mon that could abuse Weather Ball. It does pretty much exactly that. Rhydon sets rocks, and is the only bulky Pokemon on this team. It's offensive, because obviously it has to be. Rock Polish is filler, but it could technically come in handy and let you reverse-sweep if you get to set up on something like Vullaby or Unfezant.

Heatmor is basically filler. It's a bit better as a physical fire type than Flareon, because of Sucker Punch and actual coverage options. Usually doesn't accomplish too much, but it is passable and gets an electric move to hit Mantine with, I guess.

Other options you could consider (though I think they're bad) is (apparently this is an okay option according to some, but I'm not buying it) (has no actual niche beyond being faster than the other mons), (worse than Heatmor imo), (fire) (could work I guess, never tried), (directly competes with Maractus for a slot, but doesn't get Weather Ball), and (lolno).

Random roomtour I accidentally won: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1061656288

tl;dr: drought is the only reason this meme of a team works.

thank me later

Heatmor @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Fire Lash
- Giga Drain
- Sucker Punch
- Thunder Punch

Maractus @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Solar Beam
- Weather Ball
- Growth
- Hyper Voice

Gloom @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Energy Ball
- Strength Sap
- Moonblast

Vulpix @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Encore
- Fire Blast
- Foul Play

Jolteon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Weather Ball
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt

Rhydon @ Eviolite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
- Rock Polish

I think sun teams are great rn in nu aside for Abomasnow Snow Warding.
This is my version of sun: https://pokepast.es/f4255801d7f68347. Silvally will replace Vullaby when Showdown work with PokeHome...