Resource RU Viability Rankings - V3

[spookysocialist]

Just wanted to say I agree with the drop of milotic to A- and rise of golisopod to A, just based on metagame trends. Every team has a strong grass type, they all can soak up ice beam and rose and shaymin dgaf about toxic or pretty much anything milotic can do. Looking at the VR mons around it, most of the mons there can take advantage of it. It's still really good but the meta has, some unintentionally, shifted against it very hard and the rankings should reflect that.

Meanwhile golisopod takes advantage of those same common grass types with his priority bug stab. Providing a stop to all kinds of sweepers way easier than milotic can. A lot of the bulky mons that wall it are being left behind and the mons that resist it are running less bulk and less recovery. What a journey this bug has had.

 

[JustoonSmitts]

Just want to share my thoughts real quick:

-> Drop: Rotom-Mow isn't exactly bad on paper: a Defogger with Will-O-Wisp and Volt Switch sounds like it's decent in this meta. It's just that Rotom-Mow has a LOT of competition as a pivot from stuff like Raikou, Mega Ampharos, and Tsareena, which really offer stronger utility than just Defog, Will-O-Wisp, and Levitate. Raikou is much faster and is more powerful, while Tsareena is a bit slower but it also packs more punch, it's immune to priority thanks to Queenly Majesty, and it's far better at checking Ground-types because it actually resists Thousand Arrows: it can't even 3HKO Tsareena while it can 2HKO Rotom-Mow. It's a really bad Grass-type, maybe the worst one that's ranked. I think it belongs in D.

-> Drop: It's funny. I'm the one that wrote Arcanine's analysis on Smogon and I'm here to say maybe we overshot it's viability a bit. I mean, yes, it's a good wallbreaker with Flash Fire and it can recover its recoil with Morning Sun, no one denies that, but Ninetales and Salazzle are better options at the moment. Ninetales can actually boost its stats with Nasty Plot and can beat bulky Water-types with Solar Beam. Salazzle can also boost with Nasty Plot but it's a lot faster, outpacing even Raikou and Zygarde-10%. Even Houndoom gives Arcanine some competition: it has Flash Fire too, but it can also check Psychic-types and has better matchups with bulky offense thanks to Nasty Plot. They also aren't as worn down as easily thanks to recoil-less moves. I think maybe in B+ is a better for Arcanine. It's still good, but not A- good. Speaking of...

-> Rise: I've been curious why Salazzle is as low on the VR as it is. It's pretty damn threatening with its amazing speed tier and access to Nasty Plot. It's the only Poison-type that doesn't care about the Steel-types here like Metagross and Registeel and it can poison them with Corrosion. Salazzle also enjoys the rise of Grass-types, as it can easily outpace and dispatch of them all easily. A- or A is a good place to put it.

-> Rise: Tsareena is really good at the moment. This is a pretty good Rapid Spinner that can reliably check Zygarde-10% and its low base speed is a good thing so it can safely pivot with U-turn. It also has a good Choice Scarf set that can threaten out threats like Slowbro, Milotic, and Mega Blastoise thanks to it's very powerful moves. It's not as good as Virizion when it comes to being a physically offensive Grass-type, but it's still a decent alternative for VoltTurn cores with unique role compression. I'm kind of surprised this isn't higher than B- on the VR. Bring it up to at least B+ or B.

-> Rank this again: I'm surprised Bruzish got unranked at all. It's not a great Pokemon, but it does have a place. Swords Dance can easily annihilate most of the Pokemon in RU and access to Aqua Jet can help it beat faster threats. I know people like to run Strong Jaws to boost Psychic Fangs' power, but have people considered Dazzling? Being immune to priority like Sucker Punch and First Impression is a pretty big deal in my book. So where would I put this thing? Maybe somewhere in the C ranks. It's strong and can potentially sweep entire teams, but it's a little niche because other Pokemon like Golisopod and Feraligatr are a bit more consistent at sweeping and wallbreaking.

Other noms I agree with:

-> Rise

-> Drop

 

[roman]

VR update is finally here! If you want to see the council votes, you can view them here.

Big thanks to Sage for helping with this post and locri for setting up the spreadsheet!

Ranking Updates

Rises:
Metagross A → A+
Salazzle A- → A
Golisopod B+ → A
Slowbro B → A-
Necrozma B → B+
Florges B → B+
Linoone C+ → B
Donphan C+ → B
Alolan Marowak C+ → B-

Drops:
Shaymin A+ → A
Milotic A+ → A-
Gardevoir A → A-
Barbaracle A → A-
Arcanine A- → B+
Seismitoad A- → B
Snorlax A- → B+
Mega Ampharos B+ → B
Mantine B+ → B
Umbreon B → C+
Rotom-C B- → C

Reasoning

Rises

Metagross has established itself as the premier offensive Stealth Rock user thanks to its ability to consistently keep Stealth Rock up by pressuring hazard removal with Toxic (or Explosion + Custap Berry) while simultaneously providing essential defensive utility with its Steel-typing that allows it to switch into threats to bulky offense (Choice Scarf Gardevoir / Noivern) that are otherwise difficult to deal with late-game. Metagross is also extremely versatile, effectively running a multitude of sets such as Choice Band / Choice Scarf / Agility / Stealth Rock (Shuca | Custap | Iapapa etc).

Salazzle is fantastic, Nasty Plot is able to abuse a ton of the common counterplay to Fire-types in its last slot- Knock Off for Choice Scarf Tyrantrum / Goodra, Z Poison just tears through a ton of Fire resists, even Hidden Power Grass can be used to remove Seismitoad and decimate stall teams. Choice Scarf is extremely threatening to bulky offense and can even clean up weakened balance teams as well as revenge kill pretty much every speed boosting set up sweeper (RP Tyrantrum / Agility Metagross / SS Barbaracle) and beats out every opposing Choice Scarf user bar Noivern.

Golisopod is a pretty good glue, able to switch into and beat out a bunch of common threats like Zygarde-10% and Virizion thanks to a fantastic Defense stat. Sitrus Berry has also gained traction as of late, which activates prior Emergency Exit in most situations (look out for Stealth Rock!). This gives it a bit more breathing room, allowing it to do stuff like 1v1 Mega Blastoise and make use of its resistances to switch into Pokemon like Metagross more easily. First Impression is great to deal with set up like Barbaracle and it can pack Aqua Jet for Salazzle as well.

Slowbro has quickly established itself as arguably the best bulky Water-type thanks to a monstrous Defense stat and part Psychic-typing that lets it deal with a bunch of the threatening Fighting-types and check other physical attackers like Zygarde-10%, Metagross, and Toxicroak. Regenerator is also invaluable in the current metagame that favors offensive play, allowing you to play much more aggressively with Slowbro than with other bulky Water-types like Mantine and Milotic which are forced to heal constantly to check threats.

Necrozma is one of the most reliable offensive Stealth Rock users because Calm Mind and Z-move is very consistent in dealing with hazard removal and as an added bonus can tear through unprepared defensive cores. Its also got other great sets such as Double Dance + Weakness Policy (or Z-move) that can easily run through teams late-game.

Although Florges doesn't appreciate Metagross dropping, it's still very solid at checking a plethora of special attackers like Mega Blastoise, Noivern, and Gardevoir thanks to its typing / bulk. Florges also has support in Wish, Defog, and Heal Bell which is pretty nice. Nothing major has changed metagame wise for Florges, people have just been catching on to it lately and a rise more accurately reflects its current viability.

C+ was just way too underrated for Linoone considering how much of a building restraint it is, playing basically like a Barbaracle sidegrade in practice. Doublade and Mega Steelix were both Pokemon that Linoone had issues breaking, and with them gone its coverage has been freed to run Throat Chop (Return is also an option to hit stuff like Mandibuzz harder) more comfortably. It has very limited chances to set up and provides nothing to a team defensively, but is a threat that must still be prepped for consistently.

Donphan's a great pick for bulky offense teams as a glue thanks to its ability to check a bunch of issues such as Zygarde-10% and Choice Scarf Tyrantrum as well as provide utility in Knock Off and Ice Shard. It's also got more utility in Sturdy that lets it deal with set up like Barbaracle in a pinch.

Alolan Marowak has seen a slight uptick in the consistency of which it performs its role. Bulky water-types that threaten it like Milotic and Mantine are dropping, while the popular Slowbro must fear its Shadow Bone. Opting for Lightning Rod is also increasingly feasible given how hard it walls Raikou, and gets opportunities for Alolan Marowak to either set Stealth Rock or start breaking.

Drops

Shaymin has lost traction with the rise of Synthesis Virizion, as Virizion provides similar defensive utility while being a better balance breaker due to Swords Dance + Grass / Fighting typing. It's getting harder to justify using over the far more threatening Roserade (+ Spikes) aside from a resistance to Ground, and Z-Celebrate must choose between running Protect for Golisopod or having adequate coverage. Choice Scarf sets have been largely eclipsed by other Pokemon as Shaymin's attacks are all abusable by various Pokemon for setup, and they only really show up for Healing Wish support.

The reasoning hasn't changed since the last update, after reconsideration A- is just more appropriate for Milotic. It simply can't keep up with the metagame as it's easily overwhelmed by rising Pokemon like Guts Machamp and lets a bunch of threats in for free. It's also got competition with other Water-types that can provide more utility - Mega Blastoise / Mantine both with hazard removal etc. It also forces the Milotic user to play passively and stay healthy constantly to make up for somewhat lackluster physical bulk while other bulky Water-types like Regenerator Slowbro can be played much more offensively.

Gardevoir really doesn't appreciate Metagross dropping, its prevalence on bulky offense in particular makes it much more difficult for Gardevoir to make any progress as a late-game sweeper. It's a similar case against balance teams, where every team is running a Steel-type that can consistently switch into it over games. Other rising Choice Scarf users, notably Salazzle and Tyrantrum, just have much more potential as late-game sweepers and Noivern can much more easily cripple its checks with Switcheroo than Gardevoir (with Trick) because of a fantastic Speed tier that lets it act as a revenge killer to the most common setup even without Choice Scarf.

As the metagame has developed over the last couple of months Pokemon like Golisopod, Choice Scarf Salazzle, and Choice Scarf Noivern have gotten very good so you'll frequently find yourself prepped for Barbaracle without even trying, whereas before you'd have to fit what was seen as unorthodox options to deal with it. Barbaracle's also pretty much forced to run Protect in its last slot to deal with Golisopod, which makes it a lot easier to rely on Pokemon like Virizion (Z-move blown) and Registeel to check it.

Our beloved Fire Doge hasn't had quite as big if an impact on the meta as previously thought. It suffers stiff competition from other Fire-types like Ninetales and Salazzle, and relying on recoil inducing moves + Life Orb to do most of its wall breaking makes it very vulnerable to passive damage. Slowbro's increased usage has also given balance and bulky offense teams a great non-passive switch in that will eventually force Arcanine to either recover or switch out.

Seismitoad has a pretty cool defensive typing and ability, but ultimately falls short as a defensive Stealth Rock user due to lackluster stats all around. It struggles to reliably switch into many of the strong physical threats (Zygarde-10% / Metagross) and, unlike defensive Steel-type Stealth Rock users, it's much easier to wear down due to its lackluster bulk and vulnerability to Toxic (Seismitoad's sets are always nearly restricted to Stealth Rock / Earthquake / Ice Punch / Toxic, so running Refresh is rarely an option).

Snorlax gives dangerous Fighting-types like Machamp and Bewear an easy way in, only being able to effectively punish them with a Choice Band set. Curse sets struggle to gain enough traction versus the more Offensive meta that is developing, and while Snorlax does have great utility as a Fire-check, some like Poisonium-Z Salazzle and LO Arcanine can still break through it. It also has to choose between having recovery or coverage on some sets, with Rest leaving it free to give set up to too many Pokemon.

Mega Ampharos struggles to be as useful as the much speedier Raikou, which has the advantage of versatility on its side as well. It has more immediate offensive presence, but can be forced out by many offensive Pokemon that Raikou would be able to freely Volt Switch on. Raikou can deal with Pokemon that Ampharos has to be more wary about switching into like Noivern. Florges' increased usage also gives many more balanced teams a safer switch in than they would have had in the past.

Mantine is too easily pressured by Stealth Rock and Status to be as reliable of a wall as it wants to be, and it lost glue mons that covered its weaknesses well like Gligar and Mega Steelix in the tier shifts. Its passive nature can allow dangerous pokemon like Zygarde and Tyrantrum opportunities to break or use setup moves, with only Scald to dissaude this. Steel-types beat it in the long run thanks to Toxic, and in general Mantine's necessity of a cleric makes it harder to build with. It still has a place for covering dangerous threats in the meta like Ninetales and Mega Blastoise, although it should primarily be thought of as a Fire-check with Pokemon like Florges rising to deal with Blastoise.

Umbreon is less applicable to build with as Fighting-types rise in the meta, and running Mandibuzz denies them completely free switch ins, along with the other pure utility it has over Umbreon. It still has a place mostly on stall teams as an answer to Psychic-type setup users like Espeon and Necrozma that could trouble them, along with having ridiculous special bulk for strong breakers like Specs Goodra. This niche wasn't holding up its B rank status, and a drop to C+ is a far more adequate placing.

Rotom-C is severely lacking compared to what the other Electric-types offer. It is nearly worthless as a Defogger when facing bulky Steel-types like Registeel or Bronzong, it is weaker than Grass-type breaker options like Roserade and Shaymin (which also use Rotom as an easy switch in opportunity), and it is too frail to be relied upon as a Mega Blastoise switch in, notably lacking recovery options that other more viable Grass-types have access to. It can potentially generate some momentum with offensive sets that abuse Volt Switch thanks to the threat of Leaf Storm, but it is almost always going to be outclassed by other options in the tier.

Discussion Points

Mega Blastoise S → A+
Zygarde-10% S → A+
Slowking B+ → B
Houndoom B- → B
Ribombee C+ → B-

 

[avarice]

Mega Blastoise S → A+
With so many Grass-types and Donphan cementing itself as a viable spinner (still shocks me) this is was bound to come. Blastoise is certainly not as scary as it once was and I'd rather see something like Virizion there.

Zygarde-10% S → A+
Bit iffy on this one. Trends like Donphan and Slowbro have gone against it but it can still destroy teams with an unexpected DD or just use CB's raw strength. Still shows how dominating it is.

Slowking B+ → B
just use slowbro lol. Slowbro's utility surpasses King's easily and in general is a better abuser of Regenerator with its physical bulk. King also doesn't appreciate Golisopod, doom, and bee seeing more usage.

Houndoom B- → B
Averardo pretty much covered it. Alright scarf with a scary NP set and also has the ability to check Ninetales. Definitely deserves the rise, further proved by its tour usage.

Ribombee C+ → B-
A fuck ton of teams have Metagross as the Fairy-resist and Noivern as the bug-resist and Ribombee just abuses that so well on top of doing what already does best-- smacking shit with Specs. Not that Quiver Dance sets are bad, just not as good imo.

 

[Guidorealmsmc]

from S to A+: Neutral on this one but I can certainly understand why it would drop. Even though I've said in the past how splashable and easy it is to put on a team and that statement is still true, I feel the meta has more or less adapted to blastoise with the up tick of mons that can check it offensively well such as synthesis virizion and toxicroak which not only serve as excellent answers to it but can use it to set up swords dance and start threatening the rest of its team. Goodra is another good offensive check that is becoming more relevant that can sponge anything it throws at it and will either kill it if it's weakened somewhat or weaken it heavily. At the same time florges is rising and is straight up a hard counter to it hinders what blastoise can do. Its still the most prelevant glue mon we have, extremely easy to fit on a team, and our best current hazard remover so it could stay S but I don't mind if it drops.

from S to A+: Leaning towards drop with zygarde. It's still an excellent mon that needs prepared for but I feel that current metagame trends are hurting how well it can clean teams. Synthesis virizion,golisiopod, and donphan rising in the meta hinders it as all 3 of these mons can sponge most of what they throw bar and outrage which zyg doesn't want to lock itself into especially if there's a steel or fairy type in the back. Plus revenge killers like scarf noivern(as much as I dislike running it), scarf salazzle, and golisiopod all pose dangerous for the dragon dance sets hindering them from cleaning. Still an excellent mon of course but the meta is starting to show preparation towards it.

from B+ to B: I don't think slowking is all that great. Unlike it's counterpart slowbro, slowkings typing doesn't let it handle some of the stuff it would otherwise be capable of going up against such as machamp, life orb toxicroak, or Metagross due to possessing much worse physical bulk than them alongside being a water type that doesn't check blastoise very well(still can tank a dark pulse but it's forced out immediately). Admittedly it does possess a much better ninetales and salazzle match up so I don't think it should go lower than this but in most cases as a wall slowbros physical bulk is more valuable for checking fighting types and Metagross which slowking can't do that well.

from B to B+: Haven't used it much but I wouldn't mind seeing it rise. As a wallbreaker and wallbreaker I think houndoom possesses a very coveted speed tier at 95 outpacing a lot of metagame staples like toxicroak, roserade, making it harder to revenge kill than the likes of bewear or pangoro, it's stab combo is extremely potent given our tiers small pool of dark type resists and the dark resists we do have hate tanking fire blast. Scarf set is also a decent option for revenge killing virizion and both its main sets counter ninetales which is really hard to claim.

From C+ to B-: Already stated why it should go up so just linking my previous post on it.

to B Ribombee is in a pretty good spot in this meta right now as the rise of fighting types due to losing glues such as doublade and gligar make it much more adequate as a mon that can offensively check and revenge kill the ever so common fighting types alongside other prominent threats such as zygarde, shaymin or even salazzle if you opt to run psychic on the specs set(this is the set I'm mainly nomming for it to rise). It also has better defensive utility than its competition in swellow because it's typing lets it check zygarde and most teams that don't pack a registeel can have a real headache against it since the next best option for a fairy resist is Metagross which doesn't take bug buzz well. It's still frail and requires support to break registeel and such but right now I don't think C+ does ribombee justice for how useful it actually is.

 

[EviGaro]

Mega Blastoise S → A+: Agree Went into this in the metagame discussion thread, but Blastoise is still great but started to suffer through the metagame changes. It's strong but not quite team breaking, it's not slow but it's not that fast either, it's the best spinner overall but others have found usage due to checking other relevant threats and/or having palatable stabs. It's great and all still but it's been adapted to and doesn't really justify the same prominence.
Zygarde-10% S → A+: Disagree I'm not quite as confident on that one though, as again it's something I talked about in depth during the suspect, but Zydog strikes me as a formidable offensive tool that while it has issues on terms of spammability. However, the meta being so offensive and it being so key to them in terms of prio + general offensive utility makes me think the argument for it being S is a little stronger than it used to be, although on the other hand the fact that it kinda struggles on less offensive teams to be as useful is a small issue.
Slowking B+ → B Agree Slowking is fine as a general spd sponge, but like... not really? AV Machamp doesn't have regen, but it has prio and far more offensive output. Florges being good is super annoying when Dtail kinda just stops being as useful in terms of phasing, and it still covers Salazzle - sorta - and Noivern but at this point, so does Gastrodon really, while having better resists, and Noivern can just u-turn to a pursuit Meta or Drapion sooooo yea. Slowking also has issues covering the other fire types, as you need so much investment to kinda stick around against Blastoise and at that point Scald barely has a chance of 2hkoing Ninetales, so you need... Psyshock? Houndoom can dark stab it, Arcanine hits it on the other side. It's good but like it checks a weird group of mons with weird sets that you can argue is still useful but it's so extraordinarily niche that you can probably still go down to like B- or C+
Houndoom B- → B Agree Houndoom has nice utility, two good sets, great offensive typing. Doublade going strangely helps it because it doesn't have to be your dedicated Doublade check late game that forced you to keep it healthy. I think it's clearly a step behind Salazzle and Ninetales in about every way, but it's relatively easy to justify still so why not.
Ribombee C+ → B- Eh w/e Decent mon, I don't particularly care for Specs because there's just matchups where it will be very awkward to get anything going, its defensive utility is nice to an extent but coverage on about anything kills it and makes it harder to use it confidently. QD is sort of decent, again only really in the right matchup. Still, it's ok overall and has access to like the most broken move in the game which does put the opponent under some sort of pressure, and it's not an horrible web user when people have mostly adapted to Spider webs.

My one nom cause why the heck not:

Garbodor to C+: That nom is mostly a combination of Gligar leaving and specific threats coming up, but I feel as if Garbodor settles nicely in the meta as it is. While it doesn't have the stupid offences of a Roserade, Garbodor is a pretty decent spiker when spreading toxic around to defoggers that really can't quite handle it, especially Mandibuzz, and has some decent matchups against some spinners, though obviously not Donphan and Blastoise really. However, one thing that makes Garbodor shine is its ability to spread damage through a team while spiking up, and being useful on the kill to punish physical threats while being an half decent fighting resist against the likes of Virizion, Machamp, Pangoro, and non z Bewear. Some replays cause:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-870575721 Showed this one during the Zydog suspect, but Garbodor even paralyzed cripples the Mandibuzz, wins that war, and leaves the Regi essentially dead
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-881401468 rupl week one, and while it seems like it does pretty much nothing, Garbodor allows Gondra to play off the choke by removing Pod from the equation with Helmet and Aftermath. Considering Pod's ubiquity in the current metagame and its reliance on keeping health and securing specific kos or switches, disrupting it as easily as Garbodor does is pretty important.

So yeah, it's a bit odd to have a mon that basically is good because you can sack it, but in this meta it's definitely justifiable so yeah good mon imo

 

[spookysocialist]

Agree with dropping zydoge to A+... in my experience is doesnt feel like a dominant S rank meta force. It can't switch in safely to almost anything, it's so frail. Even resists like roserade sludge bomb, ninetales fire blast, hit it hard. It's vulnerability to spikes and toxic compound this. And when you do get it in, it isn't impossible to wall at all, it doesn't hit overwhelming hard. You switch in your pod or your virizion or your slowbro and then doge probably isn't switching into anything the rest of the game. It just feels like it can't comfortably 1v1 most mons in the tier in a way an S rank should. It really only fills the roll of a cleaner and while it does it well, it doesn't feel like it's S rank material, considering the team support it needs to do it's job.

Also I think Cress can go up to B+ since everyone is riding the virizion hype right now and cress walls it and all the other fighting types with it's z move set, while also countering zydoge and checking a bunch of powerful mons with shattered psyche.

 

[CryoGyro]

I've always believed Zygarde to be overhyped because of what it can do on paper. In practice, any half-decent team will have a way to keep it from spamming Thousand Arrows without repercussions, whether that be offensive threats like Golisopod and Grass-types or walls like Slowbro. This requires the Zygarde user to make risky plays to get anything particularly notable done; it demands a level of skill that doesn't typically define S rankers, which are often characterized by being useful no matter the opponent's degree of preparation. Personally, the most I ever get out of it is a revenge kill or two even against teams that aren't well prepped for it. I find myself needing to build around it thanks to its lack of defensive utility, and the reward for using it isn't incredible. Extreme Speed is honestly the best thing about it, since it's an easy way to cover the offense-demolishing Linoone. Overall, Zygarde does have a respectable number of things going for it, and it certainly shapes the meta more than most, but its performance in actual battle is too inconsistent for me to consider it S.

A -> A-
Ninetales feels a lot like Barbaracle to me right now. While it was terrifying when its potency was first discovered, more counterplay is surfacing or rising all the time. Noivern and Goodra are rock-solid team picks and make the few chances it gets to come in and do something much tougher, and slower teams finding themselves threatened by it can fit Arcanine, Gigalith, or the steadily improving Houndoom to turn it near useless. Salazzle is currently a step above it, using its higher Speed and Poison STAB to perform better against Virizion and Zygarde as well as take a good number of those Fire checks down much more easily. Ninetales is still threatening when the opponent doesn't heed it properly, but good matchups are getting harder to come by, thus making building around it less rewarding.

-> C/C+
I'm surprised Tangela still isn't ranked. Its ability to rob physical sweepers and Zygarde of all offensive potential combined with Regenerator keeping it from losing momentum itself is incredible, and its effectiveness has been proven in tours time and time again.

 

[War Incarnate]

This is gonna be a long post, so before I get started, here is some music for you to listen to while reading this post. I was hoping this post wasn't going to cause people to die from boredom, but fuck it, just get this shit going.
[MEDIA = youtube] guBpnPY32s0 [/ MEDIA]

to A+: Wait before making any decisions for Mega Blastoise, drop ZyDoge
Don't get me wrong: both of them are still really good in RU. However, I feel like both of them are starting to go into a deep struggle within the meta. And I'm gonna explain them separately. In 3... 2... 1... OK!

Mega Blastoise is great; however, it struggles within a meta where grass-types are at the top of the food chain. Besides, any powerful grass-type attack 2HKOs it anyways despite its titanic bulk. Even with Ice Beam, it can't take out Virizion without getting killed in return via the latter's STAB Leaf Blade and must get very lucky rolls to 2HKO Virizion without getting KO'd in return. Besides, Florges, Goodra, and Toxicroak are on the rise, and they either hardwall it in the case of the former two, can actually dent it in the case of Goodra, while the latter can set up on it and KO it in return. Despite this, though, it's still great against other meta trends such as Metagross, Roserade, Noivern, Salazzle, Slowbro, etc. And those are just examples. I can list more. I don't really see how Donphan's increased viability as a spinner hurts Mega Blastoise though.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ZyDoge, on the other hand, struggles not with Grass-Types, but rather, the presence of physical walls there to hardwall it altogether. The presence of stuff such as Metagross, Golisopod, and Slowbro doesn't help it, since they can OHKO it with Ice Punch, First Impression (or any attack from Golisopod lol), or Ice Beam, respectively, while ZyDoge either can't do much back or dies trying to get a kill on them. That being said, it packs great amounts of offensive utility in a fast-paced metagame, packs strong priority in Extreme Speed, and has a great matchup against meta trends such as non-Ice Punch Metagross, Registeel, non-Ice Punch Toxicroak, non-HP Ice Salazzle, Ninetales, etc. Again, these are just examples. I can list more. Unfortunately, priority is literally everywhere; despite its power; it lacks the bulk to back it up.

Ok, I don't really think both of them are at the level of A+, but if they were to drop, I say the best place to put them is S- (yes, asking the RU VR team to make a new rank) - they're far ahead of the A+ mons but aren't as meta defining as the S-rankers.

to B: Agree
I have to say, although I've never really been a fan of it, I think it deserves its paycheck to rise to B. It's got great utility, two sets which are, to be honest, quite nice, especially now in a meta where grass-types are on everyone's minds 24/7. I haven't really heard of the scarf set, though, so if anyone has the importable for this set or replays of this in play I might end up using it later. But for now, I'll talk about the NP set. And holy shit, does this do so much good! It's pretty much one of the few sets that put checking Ninetales ahead of most else, not to mention its somewhat nice base speed tier clocking out at 95, outspeeding stuff such as Roserade, Toxicroak, etc., making it harder to revenge-kill than stuff such as Pangoro and Bewear. Averardo said it all: give Houndoom its paycheck to rise to B.

to B:
OK, I'm trying to avoid a repeat of that shit which happened a few months ago. But seriously, with all those grass-types running around in the meta being able to exploit its quad grass-type weakness and this thing still holds on to B+? Why? It has great physical bulk, yes, but all that goes to waste due to its poor special bulk and shitty defensive typing in Rock/Ground. It has Ice Punch and Fire Punch, both of which are super effective against these grass-types, but its poor speed stat means that it'll rarely be able to utilize them. As a Ground-Type physical attacker, ZyDoge is simply better because it trades away bulk and more immediate power for a better speed stat, priority in Extreme Speed, and a better typing, all of which Rhyperior lacks. As an SR setter, it faces too much competition from the likes of Tyrantrum and Metagross, which pack a better typing, better special bulk (although it's still really bad in the case of the former), and super effective coverage against grass-types; however, they can utilize them more effectively thanks to their better speed tiers.

to A-:
Drapion is simply very, very good right now; the ogre scorpion is just fantastic in many ways. Sure, there are meta trends which hold it back, such as Metagross's presence in the metagame, but other than that, Drapion is just very good right now. First off, it's mostly a combo of three things: Gligar leaving, Mega Steelix leaving, and grass-types becoming increasingly common. Why does it enjoy all of these? The former two hardwall it, meaning that it either can't do much back to them, or dies attempting to set up. Both of them packing their bags and leaving for UU helped it in the fact that two of the most annoying mons which hardwalled it are gone; which, admittedly, gave way to the resurgence of grass-types. Why has the resurgence of grass-types helped it? Its great bulk, particularly on the physical side, allows it to check the best grass-type in RU, Virizion, thanks to hardwalling it and OHKOing it with Poison Jab.

to UR:
On which note, why is this guy still C-? It's a wallbreaker that's outclassed by Toxicroak, Bewear, Arcanine, and Medicham because its bulk is absolute shit, its speed is horrible, and most of its movepool contains moves which have unwanted side effects, ranging from stat drops to recoil. Yes, it can beat grass-types, but its horrible speed stat means that it may end up getting killed in return or it dies from recoil or gets forced out thanks to stat drops. Not to mention that it has no recovery and gets fucked by every entry hazard. It falls short against meta trends such as Slowbro, ZyDoge, and Mega Blastoise because of this, while others such as Toxicroak, Bewear, Arcanine, and Medicham can at least do something against them. Essentially, this is unviable shit that should go back to NUBL/NU or wherever the fuck it belongs. If someone can show me any replays showing this doing work on a good team, I might change my mind, but chances are you'll see only noobs use it because it's trash. Nuff said.

I suppose I'll make some remarks on people's proposals while I'm at it.

to C or C+: Disagree
This may sound a bit controversial here, but Bruxish, even though it has some cool abilities, falls flat in this meta in my opinion. If you're asking why, here it is. The influx of powerful grass-types in fact hurts it more than it helps it. Sure, most of these grass-types bar Shaymin have secondary typings which leave them weak to Psychic or whatever typing Bruxish's coverage is. Despite this, though, 92 for speed is just somewhat lackluster in my book, which, despite allowing it to beat Roserade, it fails to even come close to killing Virizion because of the fact that it outspeeds it and pretty much OHKOs it or severely weakens it. 105 for its physical attack isn't that good either, meaning that it fails to 2HKO even Rhyperior, gets hardwalled by Golisopod; it gets fucked up because it can't do much back to it. Sitrus Berry Golisopod is also becoming more common, meaning that Bruxish fails to 2HKO it before it gets fucked up by Golisopod's Leech Life. Its bulk is also just miserable, 68/70/70 defenses are not good in a meta favoring strong grass-types and offensively-biased behemoths such as Thunder Punch Metagross over anything else. Overall, I see very little reason to use it over other, more consistent water-types and psychic-types because of this.

to C or C+: Agree
Now this one, on the other hand, I can clearly get along with for sure. Its great physical bulk in tandem with Eviolite means that it can and likely will rob ZyDoge and pretty much any relevant physical attacker in RarelyUsed of any offensive potential in tandem with Regenerator allows it to keep the momentum going, even if it's forced out by stuff such as Mega Blastoise, which can be nice in some situations. Its tour usage, time and time again, has proved its success. CryoGyro said it all: give Tangela its paycheck and slap it in C or C+.​

 

[crow crumbs]

C+ -> B-/B This guy is just better than everything else in C+, The niche of setting up on donphan, zydog, choice-locked/non-explosion metagross, and even unboosted virizion separates it from barbaracle enough to be picked over him on certain teams. He requires a bit more team support than barb but he is still a very solid sweeper and is definitely less situational than his current ranking implies.

B+ -> B- Although zydog tapering off a bit and grass types being dominant is appreciated by dragalge, I feel that he is simply too hard to fit on teams becuase of his competition with other dragons (goodra in particular) and his complete inability to do anything to steel types. Dragalge is also hurt by toxic spikes not being a particularly good hazard at the moment, Most walls you would want to get statused are immune (Mandi, Cress, Any defensive steel).

No opinion atm on mega toise/zydog dropping and I have not used any of the other mons enough to comment on shifts for them.

 

[Katy]

Zygarde 10% to A+

Zygarde 10% is still a fantastic mon but with the rise of checks after checks it isn't that successfuly anymore. Virizion tends to run Synthesis more often and is able to hardcheck Zygarde better (especially the CB set) as it tends to click T-Arrows more than any other move in its set, as T-Arrows is its most spamable option.
Tangela found its niche as a Zygarde check too, it also is able to check other ground types pretty well. Donphans rise in usage and viability gives Zygarde 10% also an uncomfy time, as it is able to either Knock it or revenge kill it with its strong priority move in Ice Shard. As of late the metagame trended onwards and adapted a lot to Zygarde 10% as pkmn such as Virizion, Tangela, Slowbro and Donphan are seen more and more on teams. Zygarde still is a threat but it is not THAT threatening anymore. I think Zygarde 10% should really drop to A+.

Slowking to B

It's Slow Bro in Slowbro is much better, has physical bulk, usefulness in a lot of MUs, Leftis + Regen lets Slowbro do constantly things meanwhile Slowking has the only option in his AV set. I think Slowbro with Slack + Leftis + Regen and the physical bulk which a lot of teams use recently is better than Slowking. Ya drop that boi Slowking to B.

Ninetales Kanto to A-

Still a threat but Salazzle rises up and is currently in a better state than Kanto Tales tbh. Even tho Ninetales is my absolute favorite pkmn and it hurts to say that, but Kanto Tales has found new enemies in Houndoom which can sponge off any hit due to its ability in Flash Fire and the typing in Dark/Fire and Ninetales recently has a bit of a harder tim to get past teams. I think A- reflects it a bit better in the current metagame. Still a top threat tho as you have to always keep that in mind, but the recent metegame shifts aren't that kind to that beautiful fox.

Other nominations I agree with:


Tangela: to C- / C (I would say moreso C than C-)
Cloyster to B-
Dragalge one subrank down to B imho
Houndoom to B+
ya UNRANK the pig Emboar, all other fire types are better

 

[Guidorealmsmc]

to UR:
On which note, why is this guy still C-? It's a wallbreaker that's outclassed by Toxicroak, Bewear, Arcanine, and Medicham because its bulk is absolute shit, its speed is horrible, and most of its movepool contains moves which have unwanted side effects, ranging from stat drops to recoil. Yes, it can beat grass-types, but its horrible speed stat means that it may end up getting killed in return or it dies from recoil or gets forced out thanks to stat drops. Not to mention that it has no recovery and gets fucked by every entry hazard. It falls short against meta trends such as Slowbro, ZyDoge, and Mega Blastoise because of this, while others such as Toxicroak, Bewear, Arcanine, and Medicham can at least do something against them. Essentially, this is unviable shit that should go back to NUBL/NU or wherever the fuck it belongs. If someone can show me any replays showing this doing work on a good team, I might change my mind, but chances are you'll see only noobs use it because it's trash. Nuff said.​

Emboar can't go unranked bc it's ru by usage but anyways I heavily disagree with a lot of the reasonings you make and honestly a lot of them are heavily contradictory with one another.

First you mention how it's outclassed by the likes of medicham, arcanine, bewear, and croak for having moving with horrible bulk, speed, and moves with bad side effects. Medicham relies even more on a move with a bad side effect, is in fact frailer, and it struggles a lot more with slowbro than boar does for the matter. Bewear and arc also rely on moves with bad side effects for that matter and neither hit nearly as hard as emboar. Another thing emboar has is its not weak to rocks like arc and is far harder to wall.

Secondly I don't see how any of the mons you mention hurting it minus slowbro in this meta because neither blast nor zygarde actually come in safely. If anything currently it benefits from blastoise current trend since it rarely runs water moves these days so blast can't actually win vs it that easily. Slowbro sure hurts it because it pivots into its stabs with impunity, but the other 2 aren't really trends against it since they really don't stop it from doing what it does.

I don't really care if emboar was to drop but it should not drop for the reasons you listed.

 

[Voyager]

probably really random but if blastoise and zydog go to A+ then will there be no S?

 

[Katy]

probably really random but if blastoise and zydog go to A+ then will there b no S?

When they drop to A+ then no, unless some pkmn for whatever reason tends to stay out of the rest and above everything else.

 

[Ethereal Balls]

This is gonna be a long post, so before I get started, here is some music for you to listen to while reading this post. I was hoping this post wasn't going to cause people to die from boredom, but fuck it, just get this shit going.

to A+: Wait before making any decisions
Don't get me wrong: both of them are still really good in RU. However, I feel like both of them are starting to go into a deep struggle within the meta. And I'm gonna explain them separately. In 3... 2... 1... OK!

Mega Blastoise is great; however, it struggles within a meta where grass-types are at the top of the food chain. Besides, any powerful grass-type attack 2HKOs it anyways despite its titanic bulk. Even with Ice Beam, it can't take out Virizion without getting killed in return via the latter's STAB Leaf Blade and must get very lucky rolls to 2HKO Virizion without getting KO'd in return. Besides, Florges, Goodra, and Toxicroak are on the rise, and they either hardwall it in the case of the former two, can actually dent it in the case of Goodra, while the latter can set up on it and KO it in return. Despite this, though, it's still great against other meta trends such as Metagross, Roserade, Noivern, Salazzle, Slowbro, etc. And those are just examples. I can list more.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ZyDoge, on the other hand, struggles not with Grass-Types, but rather, the presence of physical walls there to hardwall it altogether. The presence of stuff such as Metagross, Golisopod, and Slowbro doesn't help it, since they can OHKO it with Ice Punch, First Impression (or any attack from Golisopod lol), or Ice Beam, respectively, while ZyDoge either can't do much back or dies trying to get a kill on them. That being said, it packs great amounts of offensive utility in a fast-paced metagame, packs strong priority in Extreme Speed, and has a great matchup against meta trends such as non-Ice Punch Metagross, Registeel, non-Ice Punch Toxicroak, non-HP Ice Salazzle, Ninetales, etc. Again, these are just examples. I can list more.

to B: Agree
I have to say, although I've never really been a fan of it, I think it deserves its paycheck to rise to B. It's got great utility, two sets which are, to be honest, quite nice, especially now in a meta where grass-types are on everyone's minds 24/7. I haven't really heard of the scarf set, though, so if anyone has the importable for this set or replays of this in play I might end up using it later. But for now, I'll talk about the NP set. And holy shit, does this do so much good! It's pretty much one of the few sets that put checking Ninetales ahead of most else, not to mention its somewhat nice base speed tier clocking out at 95, outspeeding stuff such as Roserade, Toxicroak, etc., making it harder to revenge-kill than stuff such as Pangoro and Bewear. Averardo said it all: give Houndoom its paycheck to rise to B.

to B:
OK, I'm trying to avoid a repeat of that shit which happened a few months ago. But seriously, with all those grass-types running around in the meta being able to exploit its quad grass-type weakness and this thing still holds on to B+? Why? It has great physical bulk, yes, but all that goes to waste due to its poor special bulk and shitty defensive typing in Rock/Ground. It has Ice Punch and Fire Punch, both of which are super effective against these grass-types, but its poor speed stat means that it'll rarely be able to utilize them. As a Ground-Type physical attacker, ZyDoge is simply better because it trades away bulk and more immediate power for a better speed stat, priority in Extreme Speed, and a better typing, all of which Rhyperior lacks. As an SR setter, it faces too much competition from the likes of Tyrantrum and Metagross, which pack a better typing, better special bulk (although it's still really bad in the case of the former), and super effective coverage against grass-types; however, they can utilize them more effectively thanks to their better speed tiers.

to A-:
Drapion is simply very, very good right now; the ogre scorpion is just fantastic in many ways. Sure, there are meta trends which hold it back, such as Metagross's presence in the metagame, but other than that, Drapion is just very good right now. First off, it's mostly a combo of three things: Gligar leaving, Mega Steelix leaving, and grass-types becoming increasingly common. Why does it enjoy all of these? The former two hardwall it, meaning that it either can't do much back to them, or dies attempting to set up. Both of them packing their bags and leaving for UU helped it in the fact that two of the most annoying mons which hardwalled it are gone; which, admittedly, gave way to the resurgence of grass-types. Why has the resurgence of grass-types helped it? Its great bulk, particularly on the physical side, allows it to check the best grass-type in RU, Virizion, thanks to hardwalling it and OHKOing it with Poison Jab.

to UR:
On which note, why is this guy still C-? It's a wallbreaker that's outclassed by Toxicroak, Bewear, Arcanine, and Medicham because its bulk is absolute shit, its speed is horrible, and most of its movepool contains moves which have unwanted side effects, ranging from stat drops to recoil. Yes, it can beat grass-types, but its horrible speed stat means that it may end up getting killed in return or it dies from recoil or gets forced out thanks to stat drops. Not to mention that it has no recovery and gets fucked by every entry hazard. It falls short against meta trends such as Slowbro, ZyDoge, and Mega Blastoise because of this, while others such as Toxicroak, Bewear, Arcanine, and Medicham can at least do something against them. Essentially, this is unviable shit that should go back to NUBL/NU or wherever the fuck it belongs. If someone can show me any replays showing this doing work on a good team, I might change my mind, but chances are you'll see only noobs use it because it's trash. Nuff said.

I suppose I'll make some remarks on people's proposals while I'm at it.

to C or C+: Disagree
This may sound a bit controversial here, but Bruxish, even though it has some cool abilities, falls flat in this meta in my opinion. If you're asking why, here it is. The influx of powerful grass-types in fact hurts it more than it helps it. Sure, most of these grass-types bar Shaymin have secondary typings which leave them weak to Psychic or whatever typing Bruxish's coverage is. Despite this, though, 92 for speed is just somewhat lackluster in my book, which, despite allowing it to beat Roserade, it fails to even come close to killing Virizion because of the fact that it outspeeds it and pretty much OHKOs it or severely weakens it. 105 for its physical attack isn't that good either, meaning that it fails to 2HKO even Rhyperior, gets hardwalled by Golisopod; it gets fucked up because it can't do much back to it. Sitrus Berry Golisopod is also becoming more common, meaning that Bruxish fails to 2HKO it before it gets fucked up by Golisopod's Leech Life. Its bulk is also just miserable, 68/70/70 defenses are not good in a meta favoring strong grass-types and offensively-biased behemoths such as Thunder Punch Metagross over anything else. Overall, I see very little reason to use it over other, more consistent water-types and psychic-types because of this.

to C or C+: Agree
Now this one, on the other hand, I can clearly get along with for sure. Its great physical bulk in tandem with Eviolite means that it can and likely will rob ZyDoge and pretty much any relevant physical attacker in RarelyUsed of any offensive potential in tandem with Regenerator allows it to keep the momentum going, even if it's forced out by stuff such as Mega Blastoise, which can be nice in some situations. Its tour usage, time and time again, has proved its success. CryoGyro said it all: give Tangela its paycheck and slap it in C or C+.​

To talk about the Bruxish ranking and the reasons why you made it, the reasons aren't that great/spot on. Golisopod meanwhile, can tear Bruxish apart with Leech Life/First Impression, it has to be careful switching into Bruxish because of this...

252 Atk Life Orb Strong Jaw Bruxish Psychic Fangs vs. 168 HP / 0 Def Golisopod: 175-207 (52.5 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Choice Band hits harder too:

252 Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Bruxish Psychic Fangs vs. 168 HP / 0 Def Golisopod: 201-237 (60.3 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Golisopod doesn't wall Bruxish's Psychic STAB, so that's debunked. 105 for an Attack stat in the RU tier is actually good to say the least, not to mention that it's much better than Drapion's Attack, (the one you nommed to A-). Not to mention, top tier staples like Virizion has 90 base attack, but still functions nicely in RU. While its unorthodox to compare the two, but you can see that Bruxish has a much better Attack stat than staples in this tier. It can also destroy Rhyperior (well not OHKO, but still good enough nonetheless).

252 Atk Choice Band Bruxish Liquidation vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 432-507 (99.7 - 117%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery

Even if Rhyperior can take a hit from Bruxish, it'll have trouble switching into it with its 4x weakness to Water.

For Bruxish I'd stay at a C/C+ rank it still holds a better niche than Water types like Kingdra.

Onto Emboar,

Guidorealsmc (I give credit to him) for making a correction on your Emboar post. You just call it unviable garbage without giving any good reasons as to why it's unviable rubbish. Firstly, Emboar should stay ranked because it's an underrated wallbreaker in this meta. While it's 65 speed doesn't cut it any good, it's very hard to switch into and has amazing coverage to go with its great mixed attacking stats. I'd describe it as a Pangoro, while being slow as hell and not tanky, it hits very hard & can't wall easily. . Should stay C- or go up to C, I don't know.

Everything else I have no comment on or I agree with. RANK TANGELA!

RANK BRUXISH!
KEEP EMBOAR!

 

[Voyager]

Ribombee C+ --> B-

Ribombee likes the plethora of fighting types comming in to the meta. A lot of teams have there golisopod counter as noivern as it is a very good golisopod counter, however it finds itself as the only bug resist and ribombee loves this. 252 SpA Ribombee Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Noivern: 302-356 (97.1 - 114.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO (specs (obvs) guaranteed OHKO). Fighting types such as virizion that is deep in the meta is OHKO'd by twinkle tackle from ribombee. Guts wallbreaker machamp 252 SpA Ribombee Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Machamp: 288-338 (89.7 - 105.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after burn damage (252+ Atk Guts Machamp Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ribombee: 218-258 (83.5 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. 252+ Atk Guts. However at +1 from qd or specs OHKO's all of these mons

In this replay aim uses a QD ribombee that uses it nuke very well. The hazard pairs very well with ribombee getting chip on virizion and allowing it to save its z for barbaracle. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ru-425398

Ribombee also appreciates teams only fairy resist as metagross. as specs 2HKO's metagross with hp fire. After a QD or Specs ribombee can do alot of damage to alot of the meta.

And also RANK TANGELA

 

[IcyPablo 2007 the new gam]

RU Noms. First time doing them but lets DO IT ANYWAYS!

Drop Mstoise... With grass types dominating the meta, Donphan being viable as a spinner,
Toxicroak walling non-Dark Pulse variants, and wallbreakers blowing it back, Big Cannon Turtle just isn't the "hands down most dominant, best mon in the tier" anymore.

This can stay S tho. DD is literally the most devastating sweeper in the entire tier. The rise of synthesis virizion sure didn't help it, but it's EZ to slap in a Metagross to wall it. With Rocks support, DD just wrecks teams once ONE counter is gone. Despite being weak to ice (Ice shard Donphan wrecks it), it's still a devastating sweeper/CB Breaker (Speaking of CB, its one of the best wallbreakers in the entire Tier, and more consistent in case you already have a Z user).
This is all I have. I might edit this later. JUST. MIGHT.

 

[termi]

Don't really have much more to add to the discussion points, only thing is that I'm not sure if I agree with the Blastoise drop. I'm not necessarily against it, I'm moreso wondering what fits our S rank if Blastoise doesn't. Zydog meanwhile hasn't really impressed me too much in practice as of late, it can be annoying to prep for sometimes but it rarely pulls an extraordinary amount of weight in practice and it's quite difficult to fit on a team due to a complete lack of defensive presence and a great need for proper team support. It currently barely sits in the top 20 most used Pokemon in RUPL with a disappointing winrate of 37.50%, which is pretty indicative of the fact that it doesn't really rule the meta anymore. My final comment would be that Houndoom could go up to B+ rather than B imo but the latter is also valid.

Some noms of my own:

B -> A: I know a full rank seems like a big jump, but Donphan's assets are so self-evident at this point that I feel it'd be delaying the inevitable to place it anywhere lower than A- at the next update. Currently the 5th most used Pokemon in RUPL, Donphan fits really well in this meta for several reasons. Rapid Spin is obviously the main reason to put it on a team, and looking at the most common SR setters at the moment (Metagross, Diancie, Registeel, Bronzong), Donphan does decent to great vs all of them. In fact, it does even better vs Diancie than Blastoise, which tends to lose 1v1 due to Diancie's massive special bulk. As far as defensive utility goes, Donphan's ability to be at least a one-time check to dangerous physical attackers such as Zygarde, Metagross, Tyrantrum, and Toxicroak is a great boon. The argument that it's too easily worn down doesn't apply as much anymore in this offensive meta, where you don't realistically need to keep it around for 50 turns or anything (and it's not like its main competition in Blastoise fares much better, at least Donphan has Lefties/Iapapa Berry to keep it going). The meta also currently really favors its offensive capabilities, thanks to a sharp decline in usage of Shaymin and physically defensive Water types (Slowbro being the only somewhat common one) there is very little that walls it outright, with a common Ground resist like Virizion being hard-pressed to check it (two EQs plus an Ice Shard do it in, and then there's also Gunk Shot as a viable option). Ice Shard generally is a really tight move to have, since even with its low power it's still capable of picking off Zydog as well as weakened Virizion, Noivern, and Roserade and Sceptile. To me, this mon is the definition of "splashable" and the usage stats perfectly reflect this. It's fully deserving of being ranked among the big boys in the A ranks at this point.

A -> A+: I don't know how much I can say about this mon that we haven't already established in the previous update, I mostly just feel it's still slightly undersold. Its defensive utility is appreciated on so many teams, its bulk and typing gives it plenty of switchin opportunities while its powerful First Impression ensures that it actually checks shit like Zydog and Virizion properly, as well as often overlooked setup sweepers such as Barbaracle and Feraligatr. This First Impression generally actually poses a major threat since the amount of good Bug resists is low and the few mons that can switch into Golisopod tend to be needed to check other threats at the same time (Noivern is a great example), making it easy to pressure them to a point where you can clean late game. Furthermore, Golisopod's ability to force a ton of switches with First Impression makes it easy to predict with it and get a strong Liquidation off or lay down some Spikes. Its ability has already proven to be way less detrimental than previously thought, especially with Sitrus Berry gaining popularity, so really the only thing it has going against it at this point is a hazard weakness, but its ability to act as a tank, revenge killer, and hazard setter more than offsets this negative provided you give it some basic team support (check my two latest RUPL replays for good examples of how good this thing is). A rise is more than warranted.

A -> A+: Surprised nobody said this yet. This thing's NP set is back to being a serious issue for teambuilding, mercilessly beating down slower balance builds (which tend to rely on exploitable mons like Florges and Registeel) while having the speed and coverage to make most offensive builds sweat at the same time. Despite its terrible bulk, it provides a nonzero amount of defensive utility by being able to check the common Grass types. It just consistently pulls its weight as a breaker to the point where I feel it's back at the top of the meta.

B+ -> A-: Speaking of Florges, it's become kind of a defensive staple, hasn't it? Despite its downsides in that it lets common Steel types and Salazzle in, it simply has a lot going for it, completely walling the likes of Mega Blastoise and Noivern with its gargantuan special bulk while soft checking Virizion, Zygarde, and several Fighting types thanks to its great typing. It's also the only Wish passer and between it and Diancie the only viable cleric and defensive Fairy to boot (don't say Aromatherapy Tsareena or I will hurt you). It can also Defog if you really need it to although I think that move kinda sucks on it. Good typing + lack of real competition for a team slot = a mon that belongs in the A ranks imo.

B -> B+: Thought this was already B+ tbh. Anybody who's paid attention to RUPL must've noticed that this thing is back from obscurity, it pairs really well with the new king of RU in Metagross and generally is another one of those nice role compression mons, setting SR while nicely checking stuff like Noivern without giving free turns to Fighting types that often are paired with it (something Registeel for example is guilty of). It's very customizable and can easily fit stuff like Heal Bell, Earth Power, or even more niche options like Endeavor or Explosion on its set depending on what your team needs, and that is without going into all the items it can run (Lefties, Z-move, Shuca, Iapapa, Custap etc). It's also one of the few SR setters that can stand up to Blastoise (until Water STAB becomes common again of course). Good mon!!

A- -> B+/B: It's fine, it sets itself apart from Registeel by having more offensive presence and from Metagross by having two interesting abilities to work with, but both are more useful SR setters than Bronzong on most teams. Registeel's raw bulk plus the fact that it can afford to run Protect (Bronzong wants to run Psywave/Gyro/Toxic on most teams if you want to use it to its fullest) allows it to last waaay longer in a match than Bronzong, meanwhile Metagross self-evidently makes for a better fit on more offensive teams thanks to greater speed, offensive presence, and versatility (especially in the item slot). Having a Ground immunity and a neutrality to Fighting may make it appear more appealing than Registeel, but of our common Ground types, the only one Bronzong handles better than Registeel is non-Fire Blast Nidoqueen, and our Fighting types still threaten it out once it's weakened a bit. Heatproof with Earthquake is decent if you really need a Steel type that beats Salazzle but otherwise feels even more like a shitty Regi. When you balance the benefits of using Bronzong (a few small type advantages, not too passive for a wall) against the costs (relatively lackluster bulk, Pursuit weakness, general decrease in durability) I can't help but feel that Bronzong is way more of a "niche" option than its current ranking suggests.

A- -> D: who is this....

I could make even more noms but it's getting late so I'll save it for later. One final remark is that I'd like to see some discussion on what really fits our S rank atm. If Blastoise and Zydog both end up dropping, what will fill it? Since viability rankings are all relative I can't really buy into the argument that "there's simply nothing good enough to be S rank" so like, what will it be? Personally I think Virizion is an obvious candidate, it's basically the number 1 setup breaker/sweeper and has only very minor flaws, plus it's customizable enough to be able to work around most of its checks and counters with the right set (even Sitrus Berry Facade turned out to be a decently effective set). Salazzle hasn't quite reached the same levels of usage and consistency as Virizion but might still be worth considering for an S rank spot, it certainly is very tough to check in this meta and is capable of heavily punishing some of the bulkier builds that have been popping up again every now and again. Metagross could be considered for this position just by virtue of sheer "splashability" and lack of real downsides to using it, even if it never wins games by itself it just excels in terms of versatility and general utility. Finally, Golisopod might actually be that good, but I understand some might feel its hazards weakness and somewhat detrimental ability could be enough to bar it from rising to the very top of the VR. Still worth considering tho!

 

[CryoGyro]

Why does there HAVE to be an S rank, Robert? I don't see how there's a fundamental law that every meta must have Pokemon that are a clear cut above the rest. No RU mon has characteristics that are so universally applicable, you have little reason to not run them on your average team. Blastoise will never not be good, but its flaws are severe enough to where the meta has adapted and is making it an ever-riskier pick. Zygarde has already been discussed to death. Virizion is rigidly kept in check by a good number of other prevalent Pokemon and takes risks no matter the set, whether that's giving up recovery, coverage, or conventional matchups. Metagross always has to make moveslot concessions if Stealth Rock, has a narrower scope of utility if a set other than Stealth Rock, and is much shakier at switching into the stuff you want a Steel-type to check than its brethren; it may be easy to slap on, but there are definite consequences. I say we should closely observe the meta and make formal nominations for S if there's a nuanced argument to be made, rather than scrambling to fill a gap just for the sake of it.

do nuke milotic tho

 

[MC Squared]

I know this type of post doesn't belong here, but I'm super curious now. Why are people nominating Milotic, an A ranked Pokémon, to D???

 

[Loom]

I know this type of post doesn't belong here, but I'm super curious now. Why are people nominating Milotic, an A ranked Pokémon, to D???

P sure they explain it in their posts lmao

 

[Katy]

Milotic down 2 or even 3 Subranks to B / B-



I don't know when I saw this at RUPL or in any other tournament which includes RU on a build as THE water type, clearly Mega-Blastoise, Golisopod and Slowbro do better things as water types.
Mega-Blastoise still has no real switchin besides Florges due to its amazing movepool combined with the amazing ability in Mega Launcher. It also provides a good bulk, Golisopod has a nice abuseable secondary typing with 2 priority moves in Jet and First Impression and with the bug typing resisting ground it also provides a good check to Zygarde 10% and a good STAB in Leech Life and Slowbro just took over the spot as this dudes dual typing allows it to check Metagross better as it resists Zen-Headbutt even when Metagross has gotten an Attack raise due to its first STAB in Meteor Mash. Slowbro provides with its bulk and Regenerator a clear advntage here and has Slack Off to gain Health back on the battlefield. Milotic doesn't have all the obvious advantages and with grass types so high in usage (Roserade, Shaymin and Virizion ofc) its role is completly outclassed by any other of the water types which are either faster, provide a better movepool or have a better combinable function.
Drop that water snake - not to D but 2 or 3 Subranks is fine.


Other mons I agree with:

Florges def higher as Robert Alfons said to A-
Salazzle A+
Golisopod A+
Bronzong down
Diancie up - good check to Ninetales, Noivern and other pkmn with good usage

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

I tried using Milotic lately, and it was terrible. The biggest problem with it imo is, in addition to the what everyone else above me said, is the fact that it's just not as effective at checking the things it wants to check, especially compared to the other Water-types in the tier. From my experiences using it, I find that the things it is supposed to be switching into end up doing way too much damage to it, which means it effectively has to force itself to use Recover very frequently, in turn giving your opponent free turns and killing all of your momentum. Either that, or if you don't use Recover, Milotic will have to switch out of whatever switched into it, and when it comes back it won't be healthy enough to check the things it needs to. Slowbro is far more reliable because Regenerator is a huge, huge advantage as a defensive bulky Water, which means Slowbro isn't forced to resort to Slack Off to stay healthy in the long term, in addition to having Psychic STAB to deal with Toxicroak, which is huge because that thing is also more common now than ever, and Milotic also has the issue of being a free switch-in for Toxicroak to come in, unless you carry Ice Beam.

I agree that the other Waters are overall better, but I use Slowbro as a direct comparison since it has the most comparable direct functional role to Milotic. Even then I find Milotic by itself to more often than not be a liability to run on a team because it invites so much stuff in for free and is too easily pressured even by the stuff it wants to check because they end up damaging it to a point where it has to use Recover to stay healthy, meaning it ends up being a massive crutch that can give your opponent a massive advantage in momentum. I support dropping it because it's not that good at what it does right now and it tends to hurt its team more than it actually helps it: at the very least B or B- would be good, though if you guys want it to drop further I wouldn't mind either.

 

[Denial]

in C+ / B-
I really like this mon, being able to actually bounce hazards vs Registeel and Bronzong is really good, can be fast enough to outspeed and KO Roserade, Psychic and Fire is a really sick coverage that hits most of the tier, and after some CMinds is really hard to take down. Imo Xatu should go up and Espeon down, ive never seen Espeon putting work and its usage on RUPL is abysmal.

in B
Aerodactyl imo is a great mon rn, checks Salazzle and most fire types in general thanks to its high speed and typing, outspeed most of the tier unboosted, and has some pretty neat coverage in Stonequake, Ice Fang, Aqua Tail, Flying Stab, Pursuit and Taunt for utility.

in B- / B
Theres no way Sand is as viable as Sun tbh, Gigalith itself is great thanks to sand stream and its pure rock type, being so able to check fire types and most of the special attackers in the tier. Its coverage is also great, Throat Chop, Stonequake, Heavy Slam, and Explosion. Stoutland hits really hard with Normal STAB and has really good coverage to hits all of his checks.

I pretty much agree with everything on Roberts post, i think Dragalge can rise too (?) since Tspikes have seen big usage recently, and i think hes one of the best to set them. Also its able to check Virizion, Salazzle and Roserade, and hits really hard pretty much all the meta.

 

[Gatorboy]

It has been a fat min since I've last posted, and also played for real. But I've been messing around with some mons and I think they deserve more justice

Whimsicott: UR -> C/C+
I always have trouble with Zydog and I decided to look into the depths of Nu for a cool grass type, and whimsi caught (pun unintended) my eye. Its typing is great in this ground and fighting resist needed meta. It's defenses aren't even that bad at 60/85/75, especially when invested in. It's speed is also amazing naturally, only needing to run 56 to outpace timid m stoise. The set I'm running is leech seed / moonblast / encore / u turn, and has been pulling its weight. Encore, u turn is just an amazing combo as most know, and prankster encore is just great. It is real easy to bring in wallbreakers like Cb t trum or Metagross bc of the momentum and switches it brings It's real easy to bring on on a lot of mons, and have them fear the encore, where it can just u turn out. Also the prankster nerf doesn't hurt it too much since all the darks fear moonblast anyway.

Replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-903971161 / https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-903571458 / https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-903554475

Medicham: B- -> B/B+
Ever since Doublade's rise to UU I have been waiting for this mon to actually get usage, and it really has surprised me how little its usage has changed. Medi is a scary wallbreaker, prob top 5 in the tier alone with its pure power (Again this was unintended) and scarf is just a great revenge killer with its power still being so high. It also has that base 80 speed tier right above fera which helps it a lot too. It can trick away the scarf to mons that will want to come in to take the HJK's like Cress, Florges, and Bro. Idk I just beel like B- really undersells the mon, and really has been putting in mad work.

Virizion: A+ -> S
This mon should be S alone, but I'll let other peeps get their say in. Viriz for me is the go to win con. It's speed is great, it can boost easily with its good bulk, great on the special side, and can just run rampant. Viriz just has very few flaws and I feel it is at that point last gen in ORAS when it was atop of the tier and the best mon without competition. CM also is a set, though rarely used bc there are more checks to that, but it can catch people off guard and is still a usuable set. The SD set alone though, is what I feel is the S material. SD / Leaf Blade / CC / SE @Z move of choice, LO, Lum, or even Lefties. This mon is just so splashable, and gives teams 0 problems when it's on them (idr that word its late). But yea Viriz to S by itself

Other noms I agree with:
M Stoise -> A+
Zydog -> A+
Houndoom -> B+
Ribombee -> B-
Tangela -> C/C+
Bruxish -> C/C+
Milotic -> B