Other Tiers RBY Little Cup Hub

[MeepBard]

RBY Little Cup

Approved by Amaranth
Little Cup is a well-established format in later generations where the cutest combatants compete at level 5 in a captivating competition! Uniquely, Gen 1 Little Cup allows the use of Pikachu, Clefairy and Jigglypuff, which would later become NFE from Generation 2 onwards. If you're interested in this tier, you can discuss it and find games in the RBY Discord!​

RBY LC Ruleset

Pokemon Eligibility
In order to be used in LC, a Pokemon must comply with the following criteria:

• The Pokemon must be able to evolve.
• The Pokemon must be at its earliest evolution stage.
• The Pokemon must be at level 5.

Clauses
Species Clause - One Pokemon of its species per team.
Tradeback Clause - Moves obtained via the Time Capsule in GSC are banned.
Evasion Clause - Minimize and Double Team are banned.
OHKO Clause - Horn Drill, Guillotine, and Fissure are banned.
Invulnerability Clause - Dig and Fly are banned.
Cleric Clause - Pokemon are healed prior to a battle, so no pre-status, etc.

Mods
These are mods implemented on Pokemon Showdown! for quality of life reasons.
Sleep Clause Mod - Only one Pokemon can be put to sleep by an opponent.
Freeze Clause Mod - Only one Pokemon can be frozen by an opponent.
Desync Clause Mod - Moves that would cause a desync on cartridge fail.

Banned Moves
Dragon Rage: This move always inflicts 40 damage on the foe. This move is obviously entirely unbalanced in LC, where the only Pokémon who gets anywhere near 40 HP is Jigglypuff, who still gets OHKOed.
Sonic Boom: This move always inflicts 20 damage on the foe. For similar reasons to Dragon Rage, Sonic Boom has no place in the tier. This is due to the move reliably 2HKOing or OHKOing every Pokémon in the metagame barring Gastly and being learned by the fastest Pokémon in Little Cup, Voltorb, allowing it to muscle past would-be checks like Rhyhorn at ~74%.
Wrap: Due to the way damage is calculated at level 5, Wrap was far too much for the tier - notably, AgiliWrap Dratini was able to effortlessly rip apart teams with virtually no counterplay aside from Gastly once it set up with Agility.
Fire Spin: For a very similar reason as Wrap, lead AgiliSpin Ponyta was just way too much for the tier when it was legal. Ponyta has a phenomenal 90 base Speed, only one point slower than the fastest Pokémon in the tier, Diglett and Voltorb. Getting off a Fire Spin allows it to either pivot into a threat for free, or tear through teams virtually unopposed lategame thanks to how damage calculation works with level 5 Pokemon, making partial trapping immensely powerful. Unlike AgiliWrap Dratini, setting up with Ponyta is not quite as easy — now that Tradebacks are no longer played in the tier, Ponyta misses out on Hypnosis which granted it many more setup opportunities and it does not appreciate Diglett and Staryu being on nearly every team. However, even without Hypnosis, the reward for getting off a Fire Spin is just too great for this metagame (and as May mentions in her post here, Ponyta didn’t even have to run Hypnosis when Tradebacks *were* legal). It should be reiterated that Partial Trapping Clause is not in effect for RBY LC — Clamp is still legal as Shellder is the only available user.

Notable Pokemon

Exeggcute​

Exeggcute's fantastic defensive typing grants it key resistances to three of the most common attacking types in the metagame. Additionally, its great bulk, ability to spread both sleep and paralysis and fire off a hard-hitting Explosion on something troublesome makes it one of the most versatile and necessary Pokemon in the metagame. It is by far the defining support Pokemon of the tier, while also not being a slouch in the offensive department either with its threatening Psychic.

Diglett​

Diglett is the tier's premier wallbreaker, thanks to its sky-high Speed (only tying with Voltorb) and its powerful Earthquake, making it one of the most essential members of any RBY LC team. Its raw power allows it to revenge kill many weakened Pokemon and very few things in the metagame are able to switch into it safely. However, Diglett itself also struggles to switch into many Pokemon due to its lackluster bulk. Once it's on the field, however, Diglett proves to be one of the most threatening Pokemon in the metagame.

Abra​

Abra's gargantuan 105 base Special and blazing Speed tier allows it to switch in very easily on special attackers and strike back with a powerful Psychic. Its high Speed and ability to force switches also allows it to spread paralysis effortlessly; Abra's biggest flaw is its middling movepool without Tradebacks.

Voltorb​

Compared to its Electric-type competition in Pikachu, Voltorb's movepool leaves a lot to be desired. However, Voltorb is still able to cement itself as one of RBY LC's biggest threats thanks to its blistering 19 Speed (tying only with Diglett) and access to Explosion, allowing it to threaten Pokemon with what will usually result in an OHKO. For example, Diglett is able to reliably OHKO Voltorb with Earthquake, but it may not want to stay in and risk the speed tie because Voltorb is able to remove it in return with Explosion. Reflect allows Voltorb to survive one Earthquake from Diglett if it sets up Reflect on the switch, giving it the opportunity to use Explosion even if it loses the speed tie. Take Down can also be ran to give Voltorb a non-Electric offensive option that won't result in Voltorb fainting.

Ponyta​

Ponyta is a solid cleaner in RBY LC that sports great offenses and bulk. Notably, it's able to OHKO Exeggcute with Fire Blast, and can threaten faster Pokemon like Diglett once it sets up an Agility. Without an Agility, Ponyta still sits a fantastic Speed tier and can even spread paralysis with Body Slam.

Staryu​

Staryu's great Special, unique access to the coveted Recover and its amazing Speed tier all make for a potent threat in the RBY LC metagame. Staryu is able to threaten almost any switchin thanks to its incredibly versatile movepool; which coverage moves to run on Staryu comes down to what you want it to check.

Gastly​

Gastly is immune to Normal-type moves, giving it free switchins into the ever-present Body Slams, Explosions and Quick Attack. It also has access to Hypnosis, rare access to Grass-type coverage, and a fantastic 100 base Special.

Poliwag​

Poliwag carves a niche for itself thanks to its great Speed tier, access to Hypnosis, and access to a powerful boosting move in Amnesia. The choice between running Psychic or Blizzard depends on whether you want Poliwag to hit opposing Water-types like Staryu or Exeggcute.

Pikachu​

Pikachu's got an amazing Speed tier, spreads paralysis, and unlike its fellow Electric-type competition in Voltorb, isn't walled by Rhyhorn thanks to its access to Surf. It also has access to coveted priority in Quick Attack, allowing it to pick off weakened Diglett / Voltorb.

Rhyhorn​

Rhyhorn's bulk and meaty base 85 Attack certainly makes it worth looking at - however, what really sets Rhyhorn apart is its Rock-typing, which allows it to switch in safely into threats like Voltorb without fearing Explosion, as well as other Normal-type attackers. It also has access to Fire Blast, which 2HKOes Exeggcute.

Rattata​

Rattata has great coverage in Blizzard which is able to 2HKO Exeggcute and access to the coveted Quick Attack to chip faster threats like Abra and Diglett. Body Slam allows it to paralyze potential threats on the switch.

Drowzee​

Drowzee's high Special and solid bulk along with a very contested Psychic typing makes it form a fantastic Psychic spam core with Abra. Drowzee is also able to spread both paralysis and sleep, which is a rare trait in RBY LC.

Slowpoke​

Unlike its fellow Amnesia sweeper in Poliwag, Slowpoke carves a niche for itself thanks to its fantastic bulk which notably turns Diglett's powerful Earthquake into a measly 3HKO. Slowpoke can also spread paralysis, which is an important factor to being able to pull off a lategame sweep with it.

Pidgey​

Another Route 1 Pokemon that has a surprisingly solid niche in the metagame! Pidgey's unique in that it's a Quick Attacker with a Ground immunity — it has many opportunities to switch in thanks to the abundance of Diglett in the metagame, whom it can switch in on and likely 2HKO with Double-Edge into Quick Attack. It can also 3HKO Exeggcute with Wing Attack, or OHKO it with Sky Attack. And, though much more niche, its access to its signature Mirror Move means that it can copy the Earthquakes it often switches into.

Level Looping

RBY LC was originally played with Tradebacks - in fact, the sample teams on-site are intended for a Tradebacks meta! This was because it was deemed that in RBY, movesets of Pokemon at level 5 were just so pathetically small that a metagame wouldn't be all that interesting with level-up moves excluded. Other RBY metagames aren't played with Tradebacks, so RBY LC was always just a bizarre exception to RBY tiering - banning Tradeback moves while also forcing Pokemon to have level 5 learnsets would also unnecessarily nerf mons like Exeggcute or Doduo! However, there is a solution - level looping in RBY LC allows Pokemon to reach level 101, before looping back to level 0. Then, you can use Rare Candies to level the Pokemon up to level 5, and boom! All of their level up moves are retained! The only caveat to this decision is that level looping, while replicable on cartridge, requires the use of Arbitrary Code Execution, which is typically frowned upon when it comes to tiering decisions, but Little Cup was already played with a similar ruleset on RBY 2k10 before the full extent of ACE was even discovered. I feel as though adapting a metagame that makes use of modern mechanics not available at the time of RBY forces us to get a bit more creative with rulesets, and doing it this way is healthy for the development of the metagame.

This also allows Clefairy to be used in LC, since, tragically, it can only be obtained at level 6 minimum in both RBY and GSC.

 

[MeepBard]

Reserved.
You may now post!

View attachment 406781

 

[TheMantyke]

First off, not a big RBY dude so if I’m missing something obvious to others here, my mistake. Second off, I see you’re reserving posts, so if you need more space later, I’m happy to nuke this one later on

Staryu's access to Recover, amazing Speed tier and its vast Special movepool, along with its ability to spread paralysis makes it debatably the best and most versatile Water-type in the tier.

Staryu shouldn’t have access to recover at level 5, even if tradebacks are allowed. It’s a genderless Pokémon, so it can’t pass back level up attacks since it needs two parents with the move and one of its parents has to be Ditto.

Outside of that, aren’t a vast majority of level up attacks made completely illegal by the tradebacks clause? Things like Amnesia Poliwag are also just completely inaccessible at level 5 by nature of it being an RBY only level up move you can’t pass down to a level 5 Pokémon through breeding. If the rule set has some sort of rule that allows level up moves the Pokémon learns in RBY that can only be obtained from breeding in Gen 2, it might be a good clause to add to the rules or just info for somewhere in the OP.

Edit: Thanks for the explanation May! I think Recover Staryu and Amnesia Poliwag are still outliers though so I’ll leave them mentioned in this post, unless I’m also missing something there.

Edit 2: Thanks for the extra clarification meepbard!

 

[Plague von Karma]

If the rule set has some sort of rule that allows level up moves the Pokémon learns in RBY that can only be obtained from breeding in Gen 2, it might be a good clause to add to the rules or just info for somewhere in the OP.

Tradeback Clause only bans Tradeback Moves from GSC, so if the L5 Pokémon has access to moves from RBY in GSC, it can be traded down, if that makes sense. This means most level-up moves are available, only a few outliers like Leer Charmander.

 

[MeepBard]

First off, not a big RBY dude so if I’m missing something obvious to others here, my mistake. Second off, I see you’re reserving posts, so if you need more space later, I’m happy to nuke this one later on

Staryu shouldn’t have access to recover at level 5, even if tradebacks are allowed. It’s a genderless Pokémon, so it can’t pass back level up attacks since it needs two parents with the move and one of its parents has to be Ditto.

Outside of that, aren’t a vast majority of level up attacks made completely illegal by the tradebacks clause? Things like Amnesia Poliwag are also just completely inaccessible at level 5 by nature of it being an RBY only level up move you can’t pass down to a level 5 Pokémon through breeding. If the rule set has some sort of rule that allows level up moves the Pokémon learns in RBY that can only be obtained from breeding in Gen 2, it might be a good clause to add to the rules or just info for somewhere in the OP.

Edit: Thanks for the explanation May! I think Recover Staryu and Amnesia Poliwag are still outliers though so I’ll leave them mentioned in this post, unless I’m also missing something there.

Just added the explanation into the OP! RBY LC makes use of the level loop glitch, a glitch where you get a mon up to level 255 and loop it back to level 0, allowing it to retain level up moves at level 5.

 

[Merritt]

Just added the explanation into the OP! RBY LC makes use of the level loop glitch, a glitch where you get a mon up to level 255 and loop it back to level 0, allowing it to retain level up moves at level 5.

Out of curiosity, what method is being used to access level looping? As far as I know, your only choices here are to use either arbitrary code execution or to use the Pokemon merge glitch to have a Pokemon go from any level at or below 100 to over 100, which is necessary to actually do the loop. Either is slightly concerning to have legalized in any fashion, arbitrary code execution for hopefully obvious reasons and the merge glitch for giving access to basically every move just as a side effect (mimic glitch on steroids).

I could certainly be missing something since RBY has way more glitches than I'm probably aware of, but I was fairly sure that you weren't using the old man glitch since I don't believe you can actually obtain certain Pokemon (like Clefairy) through that glitch, and I think it also means you only have access to the last 4 level up moves a Pokemon learns (as well as any it gets prior to Level 5 of course after you loop) which would cut out Recover Staryu in particular.

 

[Plague von Karma]

Out of curiosity, what method is being used to access level looping? As far as I know, your only choices here are to use either arbitrary code execution or to use the Pokemon merge glitch to have a Pokemon go from any level at or below 100 to over 100, which is necessary to actually do the loop. Either is slightly concerning to have legalized in any fashion, arbitrary code execution for hopefully obvious reasons and the merge glitch for giving access to basically every move just as a side effect (mimic glitch on steroids).

I could certainly be missing something since RBY has way more glitches than I'm probably aware of, but I was fairly sure that you weren't using the old man glitch since I don't believe you can actually obtain certain Pokemon (like Clefairy) through that glitch, and I think it also means you only have access to the last 4 level up moves a Pokemon learns (as well as any it gets prior to Level 5 of course after you loop) which would cut out Recover Staryu in particular.

If we want to allow level looping and such for every move in the learnset, I can see valid arguments. Both methods are ways to obtain moves in the level up learnset, but why immediately go down to slope of allowing what's outside of the defined learnset? The ends justify the means to me, especially considering methods like the Pomeg glitch have historically been used to allow things in other LCs without causing any power imbalances.

 

[Merritt]

If we want to allow level looping and such for every move in the learnset, I can see valid arguments. Both methods are ways to obtain moves in the level up learnset, but why immediately go down to slope of allowing what's outside of the defined learnset? The ends justify the means to me, especially considering methods like the Pomeg glitch have historically been used to allow things in other LCs without causing any power imbalances.

It's more a question of "how is this possible on cart?" than anything. The Pomeg Glitch has been allowed largely because it didn't have any broken competitive implications (if you do the subglitch of a subglitch of the Pomeg Glitch in Glitzer Popping then you get into the 'hey this is pretty gamebreaking' territory), but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

To elaborate on what the issue is, level looping can only be done if you use rare candies on a Pokemon that is already over Level 100. Simple enough. The problem is obtaining that Level 101+ Pokemon. To get a Pokemon that is at or below Level 100 to be over Level 100 requires that you use arbitrary code execution (in which case why are you even bothering with the Level Loop glitch? just make it level 5 directly and call it a day) or that you use the merge glitch.

The merge glitch is. complicated. It can be used to go over Level 100, but only under certain circumstances, the most problematic of which being that the intended final result Pokemon has to require less experience to reach Level 100 than the other half of your merge. This means that all Pokemon in the Slow experience group (which includes Staryu) cannot use the merge glitch to get over Level 100. (AS FAR AS I UNDERSTAND IT PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I HAVE THIS BACKWARDS SOMEHOW)

I don't really have a horse in this race, so if the final decision is that you can use ACE to get access to a Pokemon's entire level up moveset then sure, go for it. Don't bother with level looping though, just get the desired moves and set the mon to Level 5 - makes it much cleaner to understand.

 

[MeepBard]

It's more a question of "how is this possible on cart?" than anything. The Pomeg Glitch has been allowed largely because it didn't have any broken competitive implications (if you do the subglitch of a subglitch of the Pomeg Glitch in Glitzer Popping then you get into the 'hey this is pretty gamebreaking' territory), but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

To elaborate on what the issue is, level looping can only be done if you use rare candies on a Pokemon that is already over Level 100. Simple enough. The problem is obtaining that Level 101+ Pokemon. To get a Pokemon that is at or below Level 100 to be over Level 100 requires that you use arbitrary code execution (in which case why are you even bothering with the Level Loop glitch? just make it level 5 directly and call it a day) or that you use the merge glitch.

The merge glitch is. complicated. It can be used to go over Level 100, but only under certain circumstances, the most problematic of which being that the intended final result Pokemon has to require less experience to reach Level 100 than the other half of your merge. This means that all Pokemon in the Slow experience group (which includes Staryu) cannot use the merge glitch to get over Level 100. (AS FAR AS I UNDERSTAND IT PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I HAVE THIS BACKWARDS SOMEHOW)

I don't really have a horse in this race, so if the final decision is that you can use ACE to get access to a Pokemon's entire level up moveset then sure, go for it. Don't bother with level looping though, just get the desired moves and set the mon to Level 5 - makes it much cleaner to understand.

Very much appreciate the insight here - it's great to have an LC player give their input :) I would actually like some discussion on this since Gen 1 LC is infamously known for struggling with this exact problem for years I swear to god this meta is cursed by some forest witch to arise once every 5 years and then struggle to get a concrete ruleset going that everyone agrees with.

The way I see it, we have 3 options here:

1. Allow Tradeback moves (ex. Lovely Kiss Poliwag, Ice Punch Abra) in RBY LC.
2. Allow level-up moves that have been bred down in GSC. This notably prevents Staryu from getting Recover, and I'm sure there's a bunch of other weird move legality issues that arise with this method.
3. Allow ACE to allow level 5 Pokemon to learn level-up moves.

My personal take is that Tradebacks are dumb considering no other RBY meta allows Tradebacks, I just don't see the need for LC to be bizarrely exempt from this. I'm personally leaning towards 3 here - I'm aware that many RBYers are not particularly fond of ACE because there's the ever-present slippery slope argument that if we allow ACE then we also allow Spore Alakazam since that's also legal via ACE but I do think that giving mons moves that they can learn at a later level isn't exactly the same as Hackmons, and I feel like if ACE is discredited for RBY LC then we should really look into why stuff like Pomeg isn't (though that's a bit outside the scope of this thread).

I would really like some discussion on this topic since I do find it interesting and also since it's a point of contention that's come up every time a thread on RBY LC is created and then the meta just sorta sucks for a good while before dying off.

 

[Plague von Karma]

3. Allow ACE to allow level 5 Pokemon to learn level-up moves.

I will point out that this is what RBY 2k10 effectively did before ACE was fully discovered, and it was actually played. The closest you can get "legally" is the Tradeback Clause "loophole" method I thought up before. If you want that on the table, I don't think people will actually oppose it once you realise the slippery slope is fallacious.

The core problem RBY LC has is that the builder on PS complicates things a lot. There's a lot of moves you can click that aren't legal, and the second someone gets that issue, they're going to give up. Tradebacks OU has had this issue for ages and the second PS made the builder work, people started trying it. This is partly why Illegal DVs weren't enforced post-discovery and simply had Tradeback Clause errata'd: people don't want to deal with it and want a clean solution that allows the Pokemon to be used to their full potential.

It seems fairly straightforward. It makes the metagame realistic on cart in a way that resembles future generations. LC was never truly an RBY thing and trying to make it such legally is going to be met with problems like this no matter how you slice it. ACE is a clean, fast way to force it to work, and it would make it the most accessible it can be.

You get the meta people actually played back, it's replicable on cartridge, and it works. Seems straightforward.

 

[erz]

Clefairy, despite being LC eligible in RBY, is listed as NFE in the teambuilder

Hide

currently not battle-relevant due to rby lc having to be played in another tiers format but figured i'd let you know

 

[phoopes]

Clefairy, despite being LC eligible in RBY, is listed as NFE in the teambuilder

Hide

currently not battle-relevant due to rby lc having to be played in another tiers format but figured i'd let you know

This is actually correct, Clefairy is unavailable in both RBY and GSC at Level 5 (Level 6 is the lowest you can get one legally) so it's not eligible for LC.

EDIT: To clarify, the lowest level wild Clefairy you can encounter is Level 6, and breeding in GSC gets you a Level 5 Cleffa, which you need to evolve via friendship IIRC to get Clefairy, meaning the lowest one you can get that way is also Level 6

 

[erz]

This is actually correct, Clefairy is unavailable in both RBY and GSC at Level 5 (Level 6 is the lowest you can get one legally) so it's not eligible for LC.

EDIT: To clarify, the lowest level wild Clefairy you can encounter is Level 6, and breeding in GSC gets you a Level 5 Cleffa, which you need to evolve via friendship IIRC to get Clefairy, meaning the lowest one you can get that way is also Level 6

RBY LC inherently works with levellooping which is discussed in nearly all posts itt, Clefairy being part of the tier is also mentioned within the first 2 sentences of the OP. Here's MeepBard's paragraph about it from the OP

Level Looping
RBY LC was originally played with Tradebacks - in fact, the sample teams on-site are intended for a Tradebacks meta! This was because it was deemed that in RBY, movesets of Pokemon at level 5 were just so pathetically small that a metagame wouldn't be all that interesting with level-up moves excluded. However, other RBY metagames aren't played with Tradebacks, so RBY LC was always just a bizarre exception to RBY tiering - banning Tradeback moves would also unnecessarily nerf mons like Exeggcute or Doduo! However, there is a solution - level looping in RBY LC allows Pokemon to reach level 255, before looping back to level 0. Then, you can use Rare Candies to level the Pokemon up to level 5, and boom! All of their level up moves are retained!

This also allows Clefairy to be used in LC, since, quite tragically, it can only be obtained at level 6 in both RBY and GSC. This isn't the first time glitches have been granted an exception in LC either - ADV and DPP LC both allow the use of the Pomeg Glitch to teach level up moves to genderless Pokemon, most notably Hydro Pump on Staryu and Tri Attack on Porygon.

 

[phoopes]

erz oops you're right, that just means we need to update the format page lol that's what I was going off of

(as you can tell I've never played RBY LC, sorry)

 

[Plague von Karma]

An RBY LC channel was added to the RBY server today, so in my infinite wisdom, I decided to "solve" Rattata's set.

For this, I did this spreadsheet.

Notable information;

• Bubble Beam isn't very useful. It doesn't OHKO Rhyhorn consistently (though it does for Geodude), while Blizzard deals massive damage to them and KOs after Super Fang. No Fire-type is massively impacted by it, Body Slam does comparable (or even higher) damage. This particularly applies against Ponyta.
• Blizzard covers the Grass-types and fliers, the latter of which is notable as Doduo and Pidgey appear to be quite strong, and beat over the Ground-types better than Bubble Beam does. Cubone and Sandshrew are valid in the format.
• Thunderbolt should be carried for beating over Omanyte, Slowpoke, and Psyduck.

As for what the coverage actually lets you 2HKO guaranteed post-Super Fang...
Blizzard:
Thunderbolt:
Don't Thunderbolt vs Tentacool, Body Slam does more damage.

So your set, while it's probably obvious, should be;
Rattata
Level: 5
- Super Fang
- Body Slam
- Blizzard
- Thunderbolt

--

Using the old recovered resource made by t3h Icy, I extracted the Speed Tiers he did for this metagame. You can find the uploaded and preserved document here. There are also a lot of details in this old thread.

Pokemon	Speed
Voltorb	19
Diglett	19
Ponyta	18
Staryu	18
Meowth	18
Poliwag	18
Pikachu	18
Abra	18
Magikarp	17
Doduo	17
Gastly	17
Mankey	16
Rattata	16
Charmander	16
Vulpix	16
Tentacool	16
Spearow	16
Kabuto	15
Horsea	15
Goldeen	15
Growlithe	15
Eevee	15
Ekans	15
Psyduck	15
Pidgey	15
Zubat	15
Krabby	14
Magnemite	14
Seel	14
Dratini	14
Venonat	14
Bulbasaur	14
Nidoran M	14
Caterpie	14
Weedle	14
Koffing	13
Shellder	13
Cubone	13
Omanyte	13
Sandshrew	13
Exeggcute	13
Squirtle	13
Machop	13
Clefairy	13
Nidoran F	13
Drowzee	13
Bellsprout	13
Rhyhorn	12
Paras	12
Oddish	12
Grimer	12
Geodude	11
Slowpoke	11
Jigglypuff	11

 

[Carnomello]

Does anyone have recommendations for my oddish I really would love for some move set pointers I would like to use worry seed pls dont judge

 

[Teh]

Does anyone have recommendations for my oddish I really would love for some move set pointers I would like to use worry seed pls dont judge

Unfortunately Oddish doesn't learn Worry Seed in Pokémon Red, Blue, or Yellow. But if you were to use it, I would recommend this moveset:

Oddish
- Sleep Powder
- Stun Spore
- Mega Drain / Swords Dance
- Double-Edge

 

[Carnomello]

Does anyone want battle gen 8 lc?

 

[phoopes]

Does anyone want battle gen 8 lc?

This is the RBY forum, which is Gen 1. If you're looking for Gen 8 battles, the Ruins of Alph room on Pokemon Showdown is generally a good place. Also, there's a Discord for Sword/Shield (Gen 8) that you can join here where you can chat and look for battles too.

 

[ExecutiveEggy]

I think I found a mistake.

 

[Eeveeto]

Quick personal VR now that I have lost the tour in Semis:

S rank.

1.
2.

A rank. (Rest will be unordered).









B rank.










C rank.












D rank.













E rank.













Unviable rank.








Can justify weird placements if needed. Haven,t used every single Mon but built with a lot of them.

 

[gastlies]

Hi y'all, it's time to collect VRs!

If you made it to the top cut of the most recent LC tour then you're qualified to submit! You can either post here or DM me here/on discord (same @)

You can submit just a numerical list or a tiermaker version, but I'll just be looking at the numerical order.
Tiermaker link: https://tiermaker.com/create/pokemon-rby-little-cup-15894325

You have 2 weeks to submit, so until Sunday, June 9, 11:59 PM -4

list of qualified voters

Eeveeto
Sabelette
SANKE CARP
YBW
spell
Tree69420
SOMALIA
Nashrock
Laroxyl
Murm
Concept Everything
Alice Kazumi
gastlies
torkonpeter
Bella
Bless
NotVeryCake
Gangsta Spongebob
Medeia
SpoiledBerries
Novax
royzin
King Billu
Razorgliscor
juoean
HSOWA
Maris Bonibell
Armo
Ranshiin
Ibby

I'm also compiling sample teams for RBY LC! If you want to submit any, send them my way on discord!

 

[Alice Kazumi]

I tried to rank every pokemon, from D rank downwards it's not perfectly ordered.

 

[Nashrock]

 

[Eeveeto]

Pretty much my previous post:

Some explanations this time.

S Rank.

is the best Mon in this Tier. It resists Electric, Ground, Water, Grass and Psychic. It has Status and Boom. It checks almost all the A rank Mons. Games are often decided on whose Ex falls first. I would say there are less reasons to drop Ex here than dropping Tauros, Chansey or Snorlax in OU.
revenge kills everything. Can come on an Electric move. 2HKOs almost everything. Its only problem is really being checked well by Ex, but it still should be used in like 95% of the teams.

Electrics.

is for me the 3rd best Mon in the Tier. It has a positive match-up into almost any Mon. It needs to trade vs Exeggcute or Voltorb and often achieves that. That is a positive trait and one that would normally earn it a spot on S rank... but Rhyhorn and Geodude exist, fully walling it.
has no such problem due to having Surf, but its slower and has a harder time breaking Exeggcute. At least it has Quick Attack to RK very weak things. Can be used alongside Voltorb, but overall inferior to it.
Don,t use , no Surf and no Boom... unless you use it with both Pikachu and Voltorb. If they somehow remove all of Exeggcute, Diglett and possible other Ground/Grass, then Magnemite can actually do things. It has the strongest Thunderbolt and very good bulk. If at some point (I doubt it) Voltorb gets banned, Sonic Boom could be unbanned so that Magnemite could be actually good.

Psychics.

None of and reach Exeggcute's utility, but they all have good traits. Like Ex, Drowzee can sleep one Mon and paralyze another, even flinching with Headbutt. Abra is fast and has the strongest Psychic. Meanwhile, Slowpoke has the dreaded Amnesia + Thunder Wave combo. They are all deserving A rank and teams with the 4 Psychics + Diglett are not unreasonable.

Waters.

Solid typing, threatens Dig and walls Ponyta. Already talked about Slowpoke, is the faster but frailer version of it. Instead of paralyzing, Poliwag can sleep with Hypnosis and dominate late game with Amnesia. There is also the middleground option of who is bulkier than Poliwag and faster than Slowpoke but it tends to be worse.

While Poliwag needs Amnesia, Staryu attacks right away and is not walled by Waters due to having Thunderbolt. It can also paralyze things with Thunder Wave and like every Water, Blizzard the Exeggcute. Its not as good as Starmie in OU, but not far from it.

is the other good Water. It fully walls Ponyta and absorbs Explosion if you are good at predicting. It has a very high Special and good physical bulk too. Substitute is a good move on it, since it walls Normal types very well and forces switches. Only opposing Waters are good switch-ins, but even them can be paralyzed with Body Slam.

Other Waters while worse, have their niches. has an even higher Special than Omanyte with more Speed at the expense of being cursed with Poison typing and not being able to use Wrap. can sweep with SD, powerful Body Slams and Crabhammer. is a physically oriented Omanyte. is the only Clamp Mon and can Explode. Even the E rank Mons have unique atributes, for example is quite bulky, powerful and with Headbutt to flinch.


Fire.

Fire in singluar, cause only is good. The main atribute is threatening Exeggcute hard, while Waters can,t safely switch-in due to the threat of Body Slam. As a result, Ponyta is a good Substitute user. It can also heal para with Agility or abuse opposing para with Stomp. Of course, it has a massive problem. Rhyhorn fears burns so can,t switch-in, but Omanyte is a full counter.

The other Fire Mons are much worse. only niche is having Confuse Ray (trait only shared with Zubat) and Quick Attack. has Slash, but doesn,t get STAB from it. is fully outclassed by Ponyta and should only be used alongside it. Should we use 2 Ponyta in first place? No one knows.

Grass Mons.

2 Ponytas maybe is not a good idea, but 2 Grass Mons is. You can preserve your Exeggcute if you send into Voltorb and Pikachu. Bulba also threatens Grass Mons better than Exeggcute, since it has Razor Leaf. It will spread Sleep and sometimes para with Body Slam.
is a worse Bulba, it doesn,t even have Body Slam. However, its more reliable at paralyzing with Stun Spore.
is one of the 5 unviable Mons, but is very interesting. Unlike Bulbasaur and Bellsprout, Paras isn,t weak to Psychic and what is more important, Paras resists Ground even better than Exeggcute. It can switch into Diglett and will always live crit EQ + Rock Slide, having a decent chance to live Slash + Rock Slide too. Paras has the most reliable Sleep move and is probably the best second Exeggcute, despite being worse vs Waters (due to being slow) than the above 2 Grasses. It also threatens Ex with Leech Life and unlike Parasect in OU, isn,t even the slowest Mon in the Tier, it outspeeds Slowpoke. The more I write about Paras, the more I think it maybe should be higher than the D rank I put it in. Will hear opinions from others, if you are interested.

Others.

is similar to Gengar in OU, its the unviable Mons punisher. It makes many Mons unviable, while at the same time being very bad vs the S and A rank Mons. At least it can absorb Explosions and use its own.

None of the Normals is A rank. and (this one is the best candidate for A rank) look like the best offensive ones, while can run mixed sets and use Thunder Wave.
unfortunately find itself very low due to Gastly and Rock Mons existing. Its however very good at trading in match-ups in which those are not present, the combination of bulk (much superior to one), power and Quick Attack allows Eevee to win 1vs1 vs almost everything and be a powerful finisher.

find itself confortable at walling Normals and Voltorb. is not very good at switching into it, since it has Fire Blast. Vs paralyzed teams, Rhyhorn can run over.

Somehow even with being the only Hyper Beam Mon and having 4 useful resists, looks mediocre at best.This is what the lack of STAB can do to a Mon.

If we Ban Dratini and Growlithe (who has Agility too), we could Unban Dragon Rage and watch Charmander (16 Speed) and (18 Speed) become A or S ranks. Just leaving the idea here.