Metagame np: SM UU Stage 10.4 - Devil in a New Dress (Mimikyu Test)

[Pearl]

​

After waiting for almost a whole generation, OU has finally given back to us what was arguably one of the most influential Pokemon of the tier's earliest stages, Mimikyu. In the frenzy that was UU beta, this Pokemon found itself a spot at the top thanks to its unique typing (both offensively and defensively), good speed tier and one of the most clutch abilities in the whole game: Disguise, which guarantees that Mimikyu always gets a free turn to either secure a Swords Dance boost or close out the game by picking off threats that would otherwise be able to put it out of commission. Besides these traits, this Pokemon also has a vastly underexplored utility movepool that it couldn't put to good use in OU, but that might help it being a little less one-dimensional than normally expected, with moves such as Taunt, Will-O-Wisp, Ghost-type Curse, Destiny Bond, Infestation and more.

As far as its flaws go, Mimikyu's attack stat and offensive options can leave a little to be desired for the role it finds itself performing. Between Swords Dance and Shadow Sneak, which are pretty much mandatory on its offensive set, it is left with only 2 slots for a decent amount of moves that it would appreciate. Its STABs (Play Rough and Shadow Claw) are the obvious main options one would think of using most of the time, but, for example, Wood Hammer allows it to blow past teams that rely on Quagsire as the main answer to it (a.k.a. Mimikyu isn't completely useless in the stall match up. Rejoice, UU community!), and more fringe options such as Drain Punch or any of the aforementioned utility moves could also be appreciated, if the standard Swords Dance set had space for them. On top of that, while base 90 Attack isn't straight up terrible, it just isn't enough to handle physically bulkier such as Amoonguss and Mega Aggron without resorting to Ghostium Z (and even then, this doesn't guarantee the kills most of the time), which can be a little restrictive.

Still, there is a reason why Mimikyu was such a dominant force back in the primordial stages of the tier: while its match up against the aforementioned Pokemon isn't the best, it has most of the required traits to have a field day against more offensive leaning teams, thanks to its access to STAB priority, a free turn to boost its attack stat, deadly neutral coverage between Play Rough and Shadow Claw and just enough base attack to get by against frailer threats. In this test, we will decide whether Mimikyu is a welcome addition to the tier or if it finds itself being too much to handle.

​

This suspect test will operate similarly to all of the most recent suspect tests. There will be no suspect ladder. Instead, the standard UU ladder will remain open, and Mimikyu will be allowed on it. Those who wish to participate in this suspect test will instead use a fresh, suspect-specific alt. The requirements for the suspect will be as follows:

• All games must be played on the Pokemon Showdown! UU ladder on a fresh alt with the following format: "UUMT (Nick)." For example, I might register the alt UUMT Pearl to ladder with. You must meet the listed format in order to qualify.
• To qualify for voting, your alt must play a minimum of 45 games, and
• You must have a minimum GXE of 81.

You have until Sunday, July 21 at 11:59 PM GMT -4 to meet voting requirements. Feel free to post if you have any questions about the current suspect format. Happy laddering!

PSA: While a little humor has never killed anybody, please refrain from clogging up the thread with posts that don't add anything of substance to the discussion at hand. Use your judgment, really. You can post all memes you want (within Smogon's rules, of course), but make sure to at least try adding a short paragraph to get the discussion going. Same for voting requirement posts; there will be a thread for those. If you want to post them here, that's fine. But posts such as "I just qualified, I'm voting x" without anything else will be deleted. That should be it, I think. Happy posting!

UU Council

Adaam
aim
Amane Misa
Eyan
Hogg
HT
Kink
Pak
Pearl
robjr
Sage
Shiba
TDK

 

[Pearl]

(reposting from the previous thread)

REGARDING DRAWS DURING A SUSPECT TEST:

There is still ongoing discussion regarding how best to handle the offerdraw option. However, in the meantime, we have agreed on this as a temporary solution:

• Repeatedly or aggressively asking for draws during a suspect will be treated the same as asking for wins, and result in disqualification and a possible infraction.
• Drawing without good reason/indication that there is a legitimate reason for the game to be tied will be treated the same as forfeiting under the same circumstances, and may result in disqualification and a possible infraction.

Do NOT make agreements with friends to draw when you encounter them on the ladder during a suspect test. Yes, this applies even if you plan to play an extra game afterwords. The /offerdraw button should not be used as a way to avoid playing difficult opponents or matchups. And do not attempt to bully players into accepting a draw because they haxed you, brought a "cheese team," you "really need the points," etc., any more than you'd try to get them to forfeit.

Thanks for being patient while we get all this figured out, and for bringing up the issues with the new command.

 

[Moutemoute]

Biggest lie of my life..
​

By the way, as I said before on the UU chat, I'm kinda sad that we're getting a public suspect test for Mimikyu (and not a council vote) because I don't see this Pokemon being broken or unhealthy in any way in the actual tier. Steel-types such as Scizor, Mega Aggron or Mega Steelix are super solid to deal with it as well as really bulky Pokemon such as Alomomola. Without Life Orb Wood Hammer, Mimikyu will never be able to break Stall since it can't deal with Quagsire and I think Wood Hammer doesn't bring enough for being really useful (I guess it will probably be a weird lure). On the other hand Disguise is a nasty ability which allows Mimikyu to handle to a certain extent some setup Sweeper. I also believe that you can benefit from this ability + Eject Button and Magneton to trap Scizor (it looks like pretty damn nasty on the paper). Will make another post later after I got my reqs, I can't wait to see what people gonna think about this spooky doll !

 

[Hogg]

Mimikyu is officially free on the ladder!

 

[Twilight]

​

I just got my reqs for Mimikyu and to put it bluntly, I found my experience using the Mon pretty underwhelming. For the first 25 games, I decided to ladder with two different Mimikyu teams and there wasn't one game where I felt it added much to the team. I can agree that what it does is definitely unique for the tier, but I found it has a lot more negatives in comparison to positives. I intend to vote to keep Mimikyu in the tier, as I genuinely can't see it having a negative impact on the tier or becoming an over centralizing threat that would warrant it having to stay in UUBL.

Mimikyu Teams

<Click Sprites for Importable>


<Click Sprites for Importable>

These are the two teams I decided to use on my run, which are by no means perfect. I simply threw something together, the latter being a clean rip from vivalospride webs team. I never really experimented with Mimikyu on anything other than HO as I feel this is where it has the chance to shine best, but I found it has some issues when building around it. While Mimikyu does provide a way to prevent Rapid Spin, it can't really come in on any spinner without losing its Disguise and failing to KO any of them in return anyways. Mimikyu also acts as a pretty shitty Fairy-type for a team, because it is a Fairy that doesn't resist Dark-type moves. This means it can't really put a stop to Hydreigon, without having to preserve its Disguise just to take a hit then KO back. Being a Fairy-type that can't wall Hydreigon makes it really irritating for teambuilding as you are forced to run a secondary Hydreigon check like Bisharp, Cobalion, or Lucario in most cases. For me I found this to be a bit constricting to build with, especially compared to if I ran a different Fairy instead of it. I think in about 90% of my games it basically sat in the back and never came out, or came out once to revenge something and shortly die. The biggest reasoning for this is because it can't carelessly switch in without losing its Disguise and the Pokemon is unbelievably weak both with and without a Swords Dance boost. It is honestly pitiful how little damage this Pokemon is capable of inflicting, especially when it is almost forced to run Jolly a majority of the time if it doesn't want to be outsped by Lucario, Moltres, etc.

252 Atk Life Orb Mimikyu Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 203-242 (77.7 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 Atk Mimikyu Never-Ending Nightmare (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 286-337 (88.5 - 104.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

+2 252 Atk Mimikyu Never-Ending Nightmare (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Aggron-Mega: 169-201 (49.1 - 58.4%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO​

A lot of these calcs are actually disappointing with how low its damage output is. In the assumption that you have managed to set up and conserve your Disguise, the former two aren't as bad but I found this to be almost impossible against a competent player who won't give it the big advantage it needs. Its wallbreaking potential is pretty low, that in most cases I just had to use it to revenge a set up sweeper or at least weaken it, which at least it could do this moderately well. The only saving grace I see in this Pokemon is Disguise, for the reason to give HO a much safer way to revenge something. In most cases, this was more recurrent than trying to use it as a free Swords Dance opportunity as it is easy to punish and wall. The only other thing I found positive about it, was it adding a bit more complexity to HO teams in terms of both playing with and playing against Mimikyu. While I do see all these negatives in it, giving it an opportunity to get to +4 without being able to break its Disguise can give it a decent chance to break and/or sweep. Even though I found this hard to pull off, it is a plausible scenario that gives it a cool niche over other set up threats.

As for sets and coverage, I personally think Life Orb is one of the better items for it. In most cases, I just found something else on the team will have a much more significant impact in utilizing the Z move over it. Life Orb helps give it the damage boost it needs to revenge Pokemon effectively, while still giving it some breaking potential after an SD. Which is where I also like having Wood Hammer in the last slot over Shadow Sneak. While Sneak does give it some ease of revenge killing something, it felt kinda situational and weak to be a consistent way to revenge key targets. I much preferred Wood Hammer to break the bulky Ground- and Water-types it doesn't do much to, while also giving it a better Stall matchup against non Aggron variants. As far as Z moves go, Ghostium Z is probably the best option as it just hits a larger pool of targets than it's signature Z move can. It is able to remove some bulkier walls with the nuke, but it really sucks it needs to run an Adamant nature to accomplish KOing things like Empoleon and Cobalion, as well as Amoonguss and Suicune after Stealth Rock damage. The only real advantage I see in using Mimikium Z is the ability to have the chance to KO stuff like Hippowdon, Rhyperior, etc. better, while being able to always kill Mega Altaria without a boost which it is incapable of doing otherwise without LO. However, this comes at the huge downside of just being walled by Amoonguss and every Steel-type in the tier, so I don't see it as being the best option tbh. So if I had to rank them definitely Life Orb > Ghostium Z > Mimikium Z.

Overall I think it will have its role on a few HO teams, most likely Spikes stacking than Webs. I built this, but haven't tested much with it, but I assume these general builds with Mimi will be the teams it will fit on best. I can mainly see it being used to revenge key set up sweepers thanks to its free Substitute. I really don't think Mimikyu has the potential to be that good of a late game wincon in comparison to other HO staples, which leaves it as a breaker/revenge killer but its low attack stat sucks for it. That is about all I can think of to discuss about Mimikyu and due to its lack of performance for me, I plan to vote NO BAN. I'm still very curious to see if other people have more positive experiences and opinions about it, but I think I am pretty fixed on what I will vote regardless.

 

[Fusion Flare]

View attachment 185718
​

I just got my reqs for Mimikyu and to put it bluntly, I found my experience using the Mon pretty underwhelming. For the first 25 games, I decided to ladder with two different Mimikyu teams and there wasn't one game where I felt it added much to the team. I can agree that what it does is definitely unique for the tier, but I found it has a lot more negatives in comparison to positives. I intend to vote to keep Mimikyu in the tier, as I genuinely can't see it having a negative impact on the tier or becoming an over centralizing threat that would warrant it having to stay in UUBL.

Mimikyu Teams

<Click Sprites for Importable>


<Click Sprites for Importable>

These are the two teams I decided to use on my run, which are by no means perfect. I simply threw something together, the latter being a clean rip from vivalospride webs team. I never really experimented with Mimikyu on anything other than HO as I feel this is where it has the chance to shine best, but I found it has some issues when building around it. While Mimikyu does provide a way to prevent Rapid Spin, it can't really come in on any spinner without losing its Disguise and failing to KO any of them in return anyways. Mimikyu also acts as a pretty shitty Fairy-type for a team, because it is a Fairy that doesn't resist Dark-type moves. This means it can't really put a stop to Hydreigon, without having to preserve its Disguise just to take a hit then KO back. Being a Fairy-type that can't wall Hydreigon makes it really irritating for teambuilding as you are forced to run a secondary Hydreigon check like Bisharp, Cobalion, or Lucario in most cases. For me I found this to be a bit constricting to build with, especially compared to if I ran a different Fairy instead of it. I think in about 90% of my games it basically sat in the back and never came out, or came out once to revenge something and shortly die. The biggest reasoning for this is because it can't carelessly switch in without losing its Disguise and the Pokemon is unbelievably weak both with and without a Swords Dance boost. It is honestly pitiful how little damage this Pokemon is capable of inflicting, especially when it is almost forced to run Jolly a majority of the time if it doesn't want to be outsped by Lucario, Moltres, etc.

252 Atk Life Orb Mimikyu Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 203-242 (77.7 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 Atk Mimikyu Never-Ending Nightmare (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 286-337 (88.5 - 104.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

+2 252 Atk Mimikyu Never-Ending Nightmare (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Aggron-Mega: 169-201 (49.1 - 58.4%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO​

A lot of these calcs are actually disappointing with how low its damage output is. In the assumption that you have managed to set up and conserve your Disguise, the former two aren't as bad but I found this to be almost impossible against a competent player who won't give it the big advantage it needs. Its wallbreaking potential is pretty low, that in most cases I just had to use it to revenge a set up sweeper or at least weaken it, which at least it could do this moderately well. The only saving grace I see in this Pokemon is Disguise, for the reason to give HO a much safer way to revenge something. In most cases, this was more recurrent than trying to use it as a free Swords Dance opportunity as it is easy to punish and wall. The only other thing I found positive about it, was it adding a bit more complexity to HO teams in terms of both playing with and playing against Mimikyu. While I do see all these negatives in it, giving it an opportunity to get to +4 without being able to break its Disguise can give it a decent chance to break and/or sweep. Even though I found this hard to pull off, it is a plausible scenario that gives it a cool niche over other set up threats.

As for sets and coverage, I personally think Life Orb is one of the better items for it. In most cases, I just found something else on the team will have a much more significant impact in utilizing the Z move over it. Life Orb helps give it the damage boost it needs to revenge Pokemon effectively, while still giving it some breaking potential after an SD. Which is where I also like having Wood Hammer in the last slot over Shadow Sneak. While Sneak does give it some ease of revenge killing something, it felt kinda situational and weak to be a consistent way to revenge key targets. I much preferred Wood Hammer to break the bulky Ground- and Water-types it doesn't do much to, while also giving it a better Stall matchup against non Aggron variants. As far as Z moves go, Ghostium Z is probably the best option as it just hits a larger pool of targets than it's signature Z move can. It is able to remove some bulkier walls with the nuke, but it really sucks it needs to run an Adamant nature to accomplish KOing things like Empoleon and Cobalion, as well as Amoonguss and Suicune after Stealth Rock damage. The only real advantage I see in using Mimikium Z is the ability to have the chance to KO stuff like Hippowdon, Rhyperior, etc. better, while being able to always kill Mega Altaria without a boost which it is incapable of doing otherwise without LO. However, this comes at the huge downside of just being walled by Amoonguss and every Steel-type in the tier, so I don't see it as being the best option tbh. So if I had to rank them definitely Life Orb > Ghostium Z > Mimikium Z.

Overall I think it will have its role on a few HO teams, most likely Spikes stacking than Webs. I built this, but haven't tested much with it, but I assume these general builds with Mimi will be the teams it will fit on best. I can mainly see it being used to revenge key set up sweepers thanks to its free Substitute. I really don't think Mimikyu has the potential to be that good of a late game wincon in comparison to other HO staples, which leaves it as a breaker/revenge killer but its low attack stat sucks for it. That is about all I can think of to discuss about Mimikyu and due to its lack of performance for me, I plan to vote NO BAN. I'm still very curious to see if other people have more positive experiences and opinions about it, but I think I am pretty fixed on what I will vote regardless.

Holy shit I used the same team as you did but with band Terrak, z-Mimi, Colbur celebi, and sr krook with sash over bish lol

EDIT: Bisharp ain’t a hydra check

 

[MunchlaxAndChill]

After laddering, I am leaning towards No Ban. Mimikyu is easily dealt with by some of the most prominent pokemon in the current metagame, such as Amoonguss, Scizor, and M-Aggron. I feel that Mimikyu can slide right into the UU meta and add some more offensive variation without hurting the tier or causing any major shifts since most teams already have checks to mimikyu in place.

Here are a few calcs I found to be relevant (apart from those already mentioned by other posts since I don't want to be redundant):
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Mimikyu Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 176+ Def Amoonguss: 247-292 (57.1 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Mimikyu Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Aggron-Mega: 121-144 (35.1 - 41.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Aggron-Mega Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mimikyu: 416-492 (165.7 - 196%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mimikyu: 338-400 (134.6 - 159.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

In addition, I noticed that Mimikyu is a very useful offensive check to Mega-Altaria (which was just recently suspect tested) and can prevent a sweep using its Disguise ability. In this sense, I feel that Mimikyu could only improve the health of the UU metagame and make teams even more creative and fun.

 

[Jaajgko]

What strikes me with Mimikyu is how differently you have to deal with it than with other setup sweepers, mainly because it can always only get 2HKO'd in the best case scenario. This means that you can't just sacrifice something and revenge kill it w/ a faster mon, you either have to be able to wall it, or to let a mon die to it after breaking its disguise before being able to revenge kill it.

First, let's take a look at its setup opportunities. Thanks to its amazing ability, it can force out faster mons that can ohko it like Terrakion or Latias at +1 since they'll just break its disguise and get killed by play rough into shadow sneak, so if the mon in question is necessary, they'll obviously want to switch it out so Mimikyu can create itself setup scenarios like that. Moreover, it gets a free setup in front of slower mons that are able to take a neutral hit but not one at +2 (especially not a Never-Ending Nightmare) like Specs Primarina, Altaria-Mega or Nidoking and then something has to take the +2 Never-Ending Nightmare. However, only a few mons are able to leave that hit, most of which Mimikyu can get around with. There are two different types of scenarios that leave to the situation in the upcoming calcs : one where a mon is scared out by Mimikyu and switches out while it sets up and another one where Mimikyu sets up against a slower mon that is only threatened by a boosted attack so it breaks Mimikyu's disguise before switching out.

+2 252 Atk Mimikyu Never-Ending Nightmare (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 176+ Def Amoonguss: 348-409 (80.5 - 94.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (w/ Rocky Helmet or just Amoonguss switching into the attack it's a 50% chance) and it's also important to note that even if Amoonguss leaves it's still gonna be at a very low range which could let Mimikyu setup again on the switch.

+2 252 Atk Mimikyu Never-Ending Nightmare (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Aggron-Mega: 169-201 (49.1 - 58.4%) Aggron takes it pretty well and is able to threaten it back with an OHKO if the disguise is broken. Aggron-mega often gets chipped but not that much.
+2 252 Atk Mimikyu Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Aggron-Mega: 85-102 (24.7 - 29.6%) However Mimikyu is able to fire off a second attack. Two low rolls means Aggron takes at least 73.8% which is a range it can be rather easily chipped to . And even if the Aggron isn't at the given range, it will be left at a very low range which can benefit another setup sweeper like Scizor, Altaria-mega or Latias.
For Steelix-mega it's kind of the same, just that it takes 71.7% min from the two moves used consecutively.

It's also important to note that Shadow Claw has a 12.5% critical rate which can leave Aggron and Steelix at an even lower range.

+2 252 Atk Mimikyu Never-Ending Nightmare (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 178-211 (53.2 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Gligar can easily eat a +2 Z-move however it doesn't have a move that can KO back and even worse :
0 Atk Gligar Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mimikyu: 102-121 (40.4 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
This means if Gligar switches in on a Mimikyu clicking SD, it won't be able to stop it from clicking another SD. And if it switches on a +2 Z-Move (which would mean the disguise got broken), the Mimikyu can SD on a turn Gligar uses Roost, the only problem being that the opponent can predict the SD and switch on a faster mon that takes a +4 Shadow Sneak but it's a hard one to pull since Mimikyu doesn't lose much by hitting two or three play rough / shadow claw before setting up up to +4.
+4 252 Atk Mimikyu Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 172-204 (51.4 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
However, it is important to note that Gligar can also run U-Turn, over Toxic so it can switch on Mimikyu, eat the +2 Never Ending Nightmare and then click U-Turn to break the disguise and bring a faster mon in that can sponge the +2 Shadow Sneak. It still leaves the Gligar at 47% max which can once again benefit another setup sweeper.

+2 252 Atk Mimikyu Never-Ending Nightmare (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 80+ Def Hippowdon: 262-309 (62.3 - 73.5%)
+2 252 Atk Mimikyu Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 80+ Def Hippowdon: 169-199 (40.2 - 47.3%)
The combination of the two moves gets rid of Hippowdon most of the time and Hippowdown and even if it doesn't, Hippowdon doesn't do enough damage in return :
0 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mimikyu: 144-169 (57.1 - 67%)
Which means Mimikyu sets up again and 2HKOs at +4

And then obviously the king himself :
252 Atk Mimikyu Never-Ending Nightmare (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 144-169 (36.5 - 42.8%) -- 97.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Mimikyu gets completely walled by Quagsire, there's not much it can do about it outside of running Wood Hammer instead of Shadow Sneak but it feels like a really bad trade to me so I don't think it's a relevant set.

The player facing Mimikyu can obviously predict the Ghostium-Z and switch into his dark / normal type but most dark types aren't able to KO from full it while Play Rough does and Blissey is the only relevant normal type in the tier and is obviously not able to stop Mimikyu from setting up again.

We've now seen that Mimikyu doesn't struggle too much to find itself in a position where it can setup and that outside of U-Turn Gligar and Mega Steelix/Aggron no pokemon is able to take a +2 Never-Ending Nightmare and to deal with Mimikyu after it and even those 3 are left at a low amount of hp in exchange. So it basically picks up a free kill whenever it gets the opportunity to click sd. However, it's most likely the only kill it'll get in the match. Ironically, Mimikyu OHKO's almost nothing without a boost. So whatever Mimikyu sets up against, it will be able to break the disguise relatively safely which means Mimikyu becomes vulnerable to Scizor and most faster mons outside of Celebi, Latias, Gengar and Hydreigon (since scarf Dark Pulse doesn't do much) since +2 Shadow Sneak hits like wet bread :

+2 252 Atk Mimikyu Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Aerodactyl-Mega: 117-138 (38.8 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Mimikyu Shadow Sneak vs. 164 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 102-121 (31.6 - 37.5%) -- 89.9% chance to 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Mimikyu Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Terrakion: 111-132 (34.3 - 40.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Mimikyu Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Infernape: 135-159 (46 - 54.2%) -- 47.7% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Mimikyu Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 82-97 (25.3 - 30%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

The only way it can keep its Disguise and still get a kill is if it predicts a switch and then there are none of the 6 mons I previously stated on the opposing team, which typically happens in the match-up against Offense. So for exemple you bring Mimikyu on a Scarf Krook which is the only way for the opponent to revenge kill [redacted] so they're kind of forced to switch out which allows you to click SD and claim one and you still have your disguise so you can pull it off another time or preserve it to prevent a sweep. It should be noted that Mimikyu can still be useful with its decent special defense, speed and priority even after the the disguise is broken, though it loses a lot of viability.

Thus, instead of being able to sweep through teams like other top threats in UU, Mimikyu will very easily get a kill or a lot of damage on Gligar / Steelix / Aggron at any time in the game which can enable a path for another setup sweeper while being able to revenge kill threats like a +1 Altaria or a +1 Latias if needed. However, there are 3 downsides to this strategy. The player facing Mimikyu can often sacrifice pretty much any mon he doesn't need after breaking the disguise, the player using Mimikyu will have to chose carefully between keeping Mimikyu to avoid getting swept and getting rid of Mimikyu after destroying something with a +2 attack, and building with Mimikyu seems in general to be kind of tricky as it neither provide reliable defensive utility nor reliable offensive utility, it just kind of self destructs.

This is how I feel Mimikyu to be the best at, if well played it can go on a rampage against more offensive teams whereas it will have trouble keeping its disguise against bulkier builds but will effectively discourage setup sweepers in any case as long as the disguise isn't broken. Which is why I believe it to not be broken and to instead reward clever plays and teambuilding skills.

 

[vivalospride]

got my reqs

I'll give the team I used but I don't really advise using it b/c idt it's that good and I was too lazy to improve it so I just kept using it, here.

Anyways, this thing fuckin sucks. Not really, but I'll genuinely be surprised if any of you think this thing is banworthy. On paper the utility is so good, Disguise + fairy typing is so beautiful for offense teams that struggle vs. shark/rak/whatever else. It's damage output is just so absurdly pitiful and it really is underwhelming in a lot of matchups. Cobalion is known for being weak as piss, 90 base atk is pathetic on a physical attacker but it has the strong and reliable STAB moves to make up for it... fuckass Mimikyu is over here with fuckin bp 70 Shadow Claw fuckin tickling Scizor and doing anywhere between fuckin 10 - 20 percent with Shadow Sneak vs. literally any mon. Also Z Shadow Claw is the SHITTIEST neutral coverage nuke EVER, you expect it to help it get past some of it's checks but FUCK THAT, IT'S 140 BP THAT SHIT DOES NO DAMAGE TO A N Y T H I N G.

Other than the fact that it hits like a fuckin pussy, i think it's genuinely healthy for the tier. A lot of the fairy types are super jank for the more offensive teams, Prima/Malt/Togekiss are all super awkward on some offenses and the others like sylv/florg obviously don't belong either. Mimikyu will definitely be a huge player for hazard based offenses, spin blocker + emergency button type blanket check to offensive threats + fairy type for HO, it's beautiful. There's not much to say tho, I'm definitely voting unban and I'm p sure it wont go higher than B+ or A- on the vr lol.

 

[mashonem]

my dude can't sweep, can't hit worth a goddamn even after an SD (fucking shadow claw lel), and good luck getting more than one SD off without burning the only good part about it. ain't shit about this thing broke but it's ability, and a free sub only gets Mimi so far in this tier

unban this garbage

 

[Freeroamer]

Make it happen friends.

On a serious note, I don't really think Mimikyu is broken, but it's certainly enjoyable to play with in some games and a cool tool for offense. Pearl dropped a Spikes team in the UU cord that I hopped on ladder with last night and it opens up a lot of interesting scenarios for these teams, and help them pile on the pressure in some matchups. It can be definitely be rly obnoxious to teams that don't pressure the offensive hazard setters too well and rely on spin to clear, because pulling this off becomes near impossible before you get busted up by the offense these teams carry. I think for sure as we’ve progressed through the metagame in the last couple of months especially, stuff like screens and hazards based offenses becoming more commonplace has had quite an effect on what you can get away with on more "standard" builds (bulky offenses and balances). In the past you could definitely be lazier about this but I feel you have to put more consideration into how you’re going to approach these kinds of matchups, which I suppose is a good thing as it promotes better building, but boy it was nice to build stuff and not worry about whether I get trashed by screens/webs/spikes ;_; Assuming I have time this week to get my reqs (only 12 games in D:) I'll almost certainly vote unban because like everyone else seems to be I'm pretty set in my mindset that this is no broken pkmn.

 

[Empress Mobile]

Has anyone attempted to run Will-O-Wisp on this mon? It seems like a lot of mons that might normally put a ton of pressure on Mimikyu, like Steelix, Gligar or Aggron, would be ruined by wisp. Additionally it could even get a wisp off on stuff that would normally eviscerate it without disguise, like Lucario or Scizor. I'll give it a try for sure but wanted to see if someone else had already.

 

[dingbat]

for whenever the id thread gets posted

i personally think mimikyu is mediocre as fuck (literally look no further than my ladder alt), but that's just me being hella biased as fuck against it. only lost to it once because i misplayed vs it pretty badly, and despite thinking my team (the volt turn team i've used for a few suspects) was gonna have some bad issues vs it, being piss weak even at +2 helped alleviate that on my end. i don't really see this mon being extremely relevant outside of hyper offensive archetypes since quite honestly, it seems really annoying to build with -- much moreso than other offensive fairies like Primarina/M-Alt/Toge.

also as i'm typing this, this interesting tech was mentioned in one of the inner chats i'm in (thanks Twilight), but this seems like a really cool way of luring some counters like m-agg/m-lix if you're not running this on hyper offense lul. last slot is mainly filler, depends on what else ya wanna fuck over with this set

Mimikyu @ Leftovers
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe (there's probably a better spread out there but we'll settle with this for now)
Timid Nature
- Infestation
- Curse
- Protect
- Destiny Bond/Substitute/Will-o-Wisp/Taunt

as long as disguise is up after clicking infest, you're guaranteed to kill the steel :D

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-945711662

 

[Dreadfury]

I've been slowly crawling towards getting the reqs but I can very confidently say that Mimikyu isn't even remotely unhealthy for this tier. I can see some potential in sets that aren't the bog-standard SD+3 Attacks Z-move sets, but at the moment I genuinely think this thing is downright garbage in some situations (although it offers some very unique tools for HO teams).

This mon is legit a B-rank mon at best right now and even has room to drop from there and I'm convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that Mimikyu should be unbanned.

 

[Wigglytuff]

me rn

This suspect I actually tried to build my own teams and use them while laddering. I used to think max physdef Mantine was a viable check to Scizor, so it took 3 tries to get reqs lol. It was a good experience though, I think it gave me a lot of insight into how Mimikyu fits into the tier and whether it's banworthy, which it's definitely not.

The two sets I ran and saw being run were Life Orb and Z-Crystal (usually Ghostium but I did see a couple of Mimikium...for some reason), both running SD, Sneak, Claw, and Play Rough. (There are a ton of other techs that I saw in UU roomtours here and there many of which are listed in posts above, but it seems that they didn't have the consistency to perform in the ladder.) Both fall short of being a real offensive presence, often failing to get important KOs at +2 (Bulky Scizor's aren't OHKO'd by +2 LO Shadow Claw, neither is Physdef Tentacruel which threatens a Scald burn when Mimikyu is trying to spinblock, +2 Z-Shadow Claw into Shadow Claw doesn't knock out Mega-Aggron), and we all know Mimikyu has the defense of a paper, so Mimikyu's viability on Balance and Bulky Offense Builds is rather low. Its rather good typing doesn't mean much when the Dark resistance granted by Fairy typing doesn't actually stop it from getting 2hkod by every Dark move user in the tier.

Where Mimikyu does have an interesting role is on HO and against HO. Against HO, it's kind of an insurance policy, because Mimikyu screws with a lot of HO sweepers by virtue of being invincible for one turn. For instance, your LO SD Scizor has probably taken chip from the turn it took to set up the SD and the resulting Life Orb recoil. If the Scizor is at around 75%, 252 Atk Life Orb Mimikyu Shadow Claw does ~45%, you BP and break the disguise, taking LO recoil again, and then Shadow Sneak should finish the job, and if not (low rolls) the LO recoil again definitely will. Or Ben Sharpedo, which gets DESTROYED by Play Rough. Of course, Mimikyu isn't some infallible HO killer by any means. It'll struggle against any team that makes use of voltturn (mega manectric, scizor, cobalion, gligar) and Play Rough isn't the most reliable of moves. But Disguise does provide a nice safety blanket if maneuvered correctly.

On HO teams, Mimikyu is a fantastic spinblocker. This is a team I used, and it honestly wasn't difficult at all to get rocks up, 2-3 layers of spikes, all while using Mimikyu to stop Spinners and Taunt Defoggers to make sure hazards stayed up.

team

Sharpedo-Mega @ Sharpedonite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Protect

Nihilego @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Power Gem
- Sludge Wave
- Dazzling Gleam
- Grass Knot

Mimikyu @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shadow Claw
- Play Rough
- Taunt
- Swords Dance

Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Stealth Rock

Chandelure @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball
- Trick

Chesnaught @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 Spe
Impish Nature
- Drain Punch
- Wood Hammer
- Spikes
- Synthesis

Max Speed Mimikyu outspeeds all defoggers bar the rare Latias, which is usually too valuable of a mon to be sacked to Mimikyu for fogging. All of this results in a lot of support for endgame Sharpedo sweeps, and the two mons synergize well. While Mimikyu's offensive presence by itself might not warrant it becoming a mainstay in hyper offense, I'll be surprised if it doesn't become at least a significant niche of the archetype.

Nothing above indicates that Mimikyu is overcentralizing or unhealthy to the meta; UU right now is very well equipped to handle Mimikyu with little to no need to alter anything. In fact, it's probably a good thing for the tier to have something else checking Scizor and Malt lol. But for now, I think Mimikyu should be freed.

 

[QY_CS]

So to break this down, we should see what Mimikyu (for short ill type mmq in the rest of the post) can do in the UU metagame, and what it can't.

Against HO teams:
Standard mmq sets definitely pressure HO teams more than any other UU pokemon ever does. With its ability to block an attack, retaliate and most likely kill one sweeper at least, and having a priority move shadow sneak to help revenge killing, it will very likely give a massive advantage over such teams. Some other utility mmq sets will also disturb the momentum of HO teams with will-o-wisp threatening physical sweepers and sometimes, red card to at as a check to most setup sweepers.

Against BO & Balanced teams:
This is the where standard mmq sets tend to be mediocre, as it will probably act as a 1 trade for 1, which the opponent can probably control which pokemon to sack. It will also struggle from UTVS which makes it hard for mmq to maximize the use of disguise w/o being on the bench for most of the game.

Against Stall teams:
Without wood hammer its useless. Now assume that mmq brought wood hammer, it will pose a very very big threat to malt stall due to the general lack of counters in such teams. However, mmq will still struggle to break maggron stall due to its lack of power. Check the calc below:

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Mimikyu Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Aggron-Mega: 110-133 (31.9 - 38.6%) -- 96.6% chance to 3HKO

What really would become interesting will be mmq+spikes, where spikes would help bring down foes into the range of mmq's attacks, while mmq will help spinblock and threaten a lot of common defoggers:
Play Rough targets: malt, latias, hydreigon
Ghostium-z targets: moltres, rotom-heat

i can't really tell whether its bannable yet, but for helping pif to not need to rebuild most of his stall teams ill lean towards ban for now

 

[pokemonisfun]

i can't really tell whether its bannable yet, but for helping pif to not need to rebuild most of his stall teams ill lean towards ban for now

It's okay, vote your conscience! Ty for the good post.

 

[prikshit]

Just Got My Suspect Testing Requirements And I Have To Say Mimikyu Has To Join M-Aero, Gligar And Cobalion As The Most Overrated Pieces Of Trash In This Entire Tier If It Stays in UnderUsed. Total Garbage Mon - Cannot Stress Just How Sewage These Mons Are, Total Waste Of Slots On A Team. B Tier If That. Belongs in RarelyUsed With The Rest Of The Sewage Mons. Will Edit In Full Reasoning Shortly!!

 

[justdrew]

I disagree with Mimikyu being garbage. I think Mimikyu inhabits the realm of okay/good. Mimikyu’s biggest flaws are its 4MSS which shows especially in the stall matchup and it’s mediocre defensive stats which prevent it from being switched in liberally. Being a spin blocker, Mimikyu has a niche on spike stack. A lot of people use the Mega Aggron calc against Mimikyu but with Spikes being one of the most consistent ways to chip Steel-types, it works out. As I’ve laddered Mimikyu has been a very consistent win condition on both ho and bo. Being much weaker than Scizor ofc Shadow Sneak isn’t going to ohko the entire tier at +2. It requires more effort to get a sweep than Scizor but it’s ability is very valuable guaranteeing itself at least 1 ko late game. Mimikyu is far from broken so I hope to see a 100% unban vote. Then we can get to banning Mega Pinsir and enjoying our last months of a good generation. I predict Mimikyu to be B/B+ on vr and I’m excited to see how it’s innovated and built around.

 

[Lertsdfo]

Not goons lie mimkyu in the current uu meta is straight up garbage. I believe in a any other tier meta it kinda has a place but when Scizor is on every team ready with bullet punch it knocks it back preety dam hard. What really kills it is the plethora of tank in uu. Like my god the amount of steel and poison walls and unaware Pokémon that exist in uu is so dumb that it takes a potientaly a tier mon and drops it down to c because every team has at least one hard counter to this mon if not 3. In short this mon will not even come close to being op and not change this stall metgagme that is uu

 

[DiscoDucky]

I'm halfway to getting reqs and have been using Pearl's Spikes Offense to climb, and I've noticed a couple of things. One of Mimikyu's greatest assets is its reliability as a spinblocker. Disguise allows it to beat the relevant Rapid Spinners in the metagame. Assuming that Mimikyu switches in on a Rapid Spin, Starmie will be 2HKO'd reliably in a 1v1 situation.

252+ Atk Life Orb Mimikyu Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 166-198 (63.6 - 75.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes

In addition, Tentacruel also is 2HKO'd by Shadow Claw assuming 1 layer of Spikes and Stealth Rock.

252+ Atk Life Orb Mimikyu Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 112 Def Tentacruel: 153-183 (42 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 1 layer of Spikes, and Black Sludge recovery

The final matchup with Mega Blastoise results in a very similar 2HKO from Play Rough.

252+ Atk Life Orb Mimikyu Play Rough vs. 104 HP / 0 Def Blastoise: 165-195 (50.7 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes

 

[Cam]

I have finished my reqs run and played like offense then balance then stall and with each playstyle didn't come across any difficulties dealing with opposing mimikyu's. Its limited to being run on offense and its ability is kinda annoying but nothing that makes me feel it isn't manageable. Between Bisharp, Scizor and Mega-Aggron, which i used one of on all my teams (i think) i just ended up either toxicing the mimikyu and switching to mega aggron or finding myself offensively checking it by breaking disguise, sacking/ pivoting into my scizor and murdering it with bp. other than that most teams will have a physical wall that can easily deal with it.

Its good for its spinblocking role on offense and it nets a kill or 2 but it needs heavy support to do much and i don't think its too much for the tier from my recent play. I played some wood hammer set when i brought stall and it did 44 to my pyukumuku which was just sad. and people are running mimikium z or w.e and never breaking mega aggron (or more than 1 mon on any stall team)

This post was terribly written most likely but just my experience on the ladder playing vs mimi with 3 different types of team and found it quite easily manageable. I don't think its something many people will feel weak to or come across trouble building around with the prevelance of strong ass steels in this tier

 

[ThisIsJustAGame]

(sorry I'm late)
This is my first reply so I hope it will be at least complete to vote properly.
I'm not an UU expert but I have been playing the tier since quite a few times (1 year). In my opinion Mimikyu will be a good add to the tier thanks to is unique ability, which allow him to revenge kill many threatening sweepers like Terrakion, Latias and of course Mega-Altaria. This pokemon offer an alternative fore the build as a physical ghost and fairy sweeper, although he clearly lack of huge power. Disguise permits various sets (some threads propose even a trapper with infestation and curse). This pokemon can only diversify a locked metagame. Thay's why I vote unban.
My username on Shodown is UUMT TIJAG 2, Elo : 1589, GXE : 84,3%

 

[pokemonisfun]

Obviously it’s hopeless and MMQ will be freed but posting here for posterity I think it should be banned because the Spikes stacking it fits on invalidates Spinning more or less (Froslass plus Disguise MMQ give you roughly 3 spinblockers in most matchups). I don’t like how Gligar and Rotom are monopolizing hazard control (duopolizing?) and I rather keep spinning as strong counterplay to hazard stack instead of now weak or barely viable counterplay.

Please join me and nobody else in voting BAN

 

[Hogg]

I haven't personally found Mimikyu to be banworthy, but I am glad to see someone focus on something other than Mimikyu's ability to sweep through teams. It shouldn't be a shocker to anyone that Mimikyu is stopped by almost every wall ever, considering that its attacking stat is 13 points lower than offensive powerhouse Sigilyph and it doesn't have high-BP STAB moves to make up for it like Infernape or Cobalion. What makes it interesting isn't its offensive potential but rather its niche as a spinblocker and its ability to function as the best revenge killer UU has seen since the Alakazam ban. While I don't think it should be banned, I do believe that its impact on the tier will be much more significant than what many of the people who have posted in this thread so far seem to imply.

Anyhow, voting thread is up, so go vote! https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/usum-uu-suspect-process-stage-10-4-voting.3652762/