Doubles OU sounds great. Simple, doesn't sound too wierd, and you know what it is.
If doubles goes well, won't it eventually need tiers titles anyway? Or is that just a joke?No, please don't affiliate this with such an awful tier.
get ur canada language out of herez (pronounced zed not zee)
That combinations work very well. While I appreciate the bulk that Dusknoir has, I sometimes get pwnd thanks to prankster Taunt spam, which, unless I choose the correct lead, simply stomps me as my mons keep dying on switch in. I've been trying Darkrai and Shaymin-s too, very underrated. Snarl, being an underrated move, does wonders coming from Darkrai's high SpA and STAB.Just had some tournament matches versus Pwnemon. I lost the bo3, but here's a game that displays the combo of Dusknoir + Eruptran, as well as some underappreciated mons like Darkrai and Shaymin-S. I've been messing around with Darkrai's last slot, and decided to go with Substitute for now (@ Dark Gem), which proved to be handy in this game. Shaymin-S hits ridiculously hard with Life Orb, but Yache Berry saved the day in this game ;d
In contrary to what Bent1ey has stated earlier, it only takes 1 turn to set up, as explained above.
Simple Beam + set-up sweeper does share some similar counters to the TerraCott strategy, though. Rage Powder / Follow Me would divert Simple Beam away from the set-up partner, for instance. Contrary to Whimsicott, though Genesect is not dead-weight outside of providing Simple Beams, so it has the flexibility to change tactics and find another opportunity to pull off this strategy. This need for flexibility is probably what Joim was really trying to say. However, a reliable 2-man core certainly exists in doubles, imo (even a 3-mon core, although these are understandably much riskier to pull off)
Well, it's easier to count the strategies like that that work than the strategies than don't. You are right on the second part, I meant it's not very flexible, and 2-man cores that need several turns need to be well thought of and you must take into account the weaknesses.Nah it's too flippant to draw such conclusions, Joim. Indeed, there are the infamous TerraCott combo that would almost always fail versus a player well-versed in doubles. However, certain combo like TR Dusknoir / Dusclops + Eruptran or Firestorm's TR Slowking + Gastrodon are effective, because of the ease and consistency in set-up. If we use the DuskTran as an example, it takes two turns of Trick Room + Sunny Day for ErupTran to truly turn destructive. Despite multiple turns of set-up, it's consistent and easy, because once Trick Room goes up reliably enough, Dusknoir / Dusclops would move before anything to summon Sun followed suit by Heatran's bloated Eruption. Similar concept for Firestorm's Slowking + Gastrodon really (Slowking's Surf moves first followed by the special onslaught of Gastrodon with +1 - +2 SpA boosts).
Something like Genesect + Shell Smash Cloyster can work for the same reason, since Genesect moves first to turn Cloyster Simple followed by the quadrupling of offenses with Shell Smash. In contrary to what Bent1ey has stated earlier, it only takes 1 turn to set up, as explained above.
Simple Beam + set-up sweeper does share some similar counters to the TerraCott strategy, though. Rage Powder / Follow Me would divert Simple Beam away from the set-up partner, for instance. Contrary to Whimsicott, though Genesect is not dead-weight outside of providing Simple Beams, so it has the flexibility to change tactics and find another opportunity to pull off this strategy. This need for flexibility is probably what Joim was really trying to say. However, a reliable 2-man core certainly exists in doubles, imo (even a 3-mon core, although these are understandably much riskier to pull off)
Yep, I've found Quagsire troublesome too as it can OHKO Heatran with EQ.The biggest threats to the Dusk + Heatran combo are definitely Pokemon that can move first under TR. Gasrtodon especially is a real bitch.
Btw about that Slowking + Gastrodon combo, i assume that it is best used with Politoed support, to make Surf + Muddy Water spam really deadly.
Manaphy has trouble abusing Hydration Rest or Tail Glow due to being being double targeted. I've seen it Surf/Blizzard spam before and utilize Heart Swap pretty effectively.Speaking of, has anyone used either Manaphy or Genesect? My test trials with the former were...less than impressive, although I've gotten some decent use out of the latter, even though it was on a shittastic team.
At +4 I would be spamming Cloyster's spread moves, since it would most definitely destroy both enemies on the field. Switch out Genesect for Abomasnow (or summon Hail beforehand) so Cloyster can spam perfectly accurate +4 Blizzards!If you're using Simple Beam on Shell Smash Cloyster you'll obviously go special because you lose Skill Link, so you don't have to worry about Intimidate.
Cloyster reaches 885 Sp.Atk (with a positive nature) and 717 Speed after a Simple'd Shell Smash boost.
STAB Blizzard at +4 Sp.Atk is surely going to badly hurt anything that doesn't resist it.
The other moves it needs are Hydro Pump for secondary STAB and Protect to avoid the obvious priority attacks (make sure to have a Psychic user to deal with fighting types; Genesect itself could work if it gets a Sp.Atk boost from Download) because nothing is going to outspeed Cloyster at +4.
The problem with this combo is the low accuracy of Blizzard and Hydro Pump, which is definitely a concern.
I suppose you can drop Hydro Pump for Hidden Power Grass to deal with water types but then you get walled by Heatran, which is arguably worse.
I'd stick with Hydro Pump.
Having something with Lightningrod is also a good idea so Cloyster doesn't get zapped by an electric attack.
In most of these occasions I lead with Scrafty and Victini to Fake Out and fast attack or Cresselia to support Scrafty, sometimes I win before I can use ErupTran, hehe. I'm using Escavalier right now, so I try to run TR nonetheless since it can deal with Gastrodon and Quagsire with its strong Mega Horns (especially with Helping Hand).At +4 I would be spamming Cloyster's spread moves, since it would most definitely destroy both enemies on the field. Switch out Genesect for Abomasnow (or summon Hail beforehand) so Cloyster can spam perfectly accurate +4 Blizzards!
I'd probably use Surf, too, and add a Storm Drain / Water Absorb user.
Joim: If I'm facing a slower opponent, I wouldn't be so quick to set up Trick Room. This is more of a flaw of Heatran as a TR sweeper than a flaw of the 2-mon core, imo. Yes the opponent can also bring out 2 hard hitters that can double-target KO Dusknoir, but then I would simply switch out (or not lead with Dusknoir in the first place)? I will find another opportunity to set up Eruptran with Dusknoir, nbd.