General Doubles Metagame Thread

[nyttyn]

So, I've had a thought - why are we using Ninetales for Sun when we could, realistically, be using something else instead? Sunny day, that is!

Sunny Day

Changes the weather to sunny for five turns

Heat Rock
The holder's Sunny Day will create sunshine lasting for eight turns rather than five.
​

Really, Sunny Day seems like a really cool move when you get down to it, since 8 turns is nearly a lifetime in Doubles. Especially when you realize you can use a much much MUCH better pokemon over Ninetales simply by using this move, and to top it all off you can induce Sun at any time! :D A huge boost, ain't it?

Sableye @ Heat Rock
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Def
Careful Nature
- Sunny Day
- Recover
- Fake Out
- Sucker Punch / Protect

Given that Sableye gets priority Sunny Day, it seems only logical to use it as our first example of what Sunny Day is capable of. Packing priority Recovery, the amazing move Fake Out, Sunny Day, and Sucker Punch or Protect depending what you desire, this Sableye is a priority machine! It's not the bulkiest thing in the world, but use it right and it will get you far.

 

[Skore]

Gastrodon is making me need to run HP grass on Thundurus instead of HP Ice, it's vexing,

 

[BlankZero]

So, I've had a thought - why are we using Ninetales for Sun when we could, realistically, be using something else instead? Sunny day, that is!

Sunny Day

Changes the weather to sunny for five turns

Heat Rock
The holder's Sunny Day will create sunshine lasting for eight turns rather than five.
​

Really, Sunny Day seems like a really cool move when you get down to it, since 8 turns is nearly a lifetime in Doubles. Especially when you realize you can use a much much MUCH better pokemon over Ninetales simply by using this move, and to top it all off you can induce Sun at any time! :D A huge boost, ain't it?

Sableye @ Heat Rock
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Def
Careful Nature
- Sunny Day
- Recover
- Fake Out
- Sucker Punch / Protect

Given that Sableye gets priority Sunny Day, it seems only logical to use it as our first example of what Sunny Day is capable of. Packing priority Recovery, the amazing move Fake Out, Sunny Day, and Sucker Punch or Protect depending what you desire, this Sableye is a priority machine! It's not the bulkiest thing in the world, but use it right and it will get you far.

This is a cool idea, but the idea behind Sun first turn on a Sun Team is mainly for things like Chlorophyll, which doesn't activate as soon as Sun goes up like most people think, at least not in PS.

Same thing with Tailwind, it doesn't activate til the end of the turn it's used.

 

[BlankZero]

For real... once you get over 1800, Stun Spore and Thunder Wave is EVERYWHERE!! Especially from Prankster users!
I'm about to start running Safeguard or maybe Milotic..

Safeguard is an amazing move, and it actually has AMAZING distribution, or you could just run Heal Bell/Aromatherapy.

 

[Skore]

How viable would Baton Pass be in doubles? Could certain pokes pull it off?

 

[youngjake93]

Ninetales isn't as horrible in doubles tbh. It has that nice amount of bulk that either keeps it around or diverts from a more potent offensive partner. Heat Wave+Energy Ball is a pretty good combination to have at 100 base speed and a partner can turn those into 1hkos quite frequently.
Also, for the trolololol factor, you can use role play on a water absorber like Gastrodon.
Imprison+Protect+Heat Wave basically screws over a lot of teams as well as protects your Chloro users.
I think the problem is that people just want to use Ninetales like they do in regular OU.
Blank, I just put Safeguard on Togekiss lol, check out the RMT I posted.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3478088

 

[Agonist]

How viable would Baton Pass be in doubles? Could certain pokes pull it off?

With enough support you can pull just about anything off. :p

But I'm sure you can make it work without too much support.

 

[drcossack]

How viable would Baton Pass be in doubles? Could certain pokes pull it off?

um, hell no.

Ninetales isn't as horrible in doubles tbh. It has that nice amount of bulk that either keeps it around or diverts from a more potent offensive partner. Heat Wave+Energy Ball is a pretty good combination to have at 100 base speed and a partner can turn those into 1hkos quite frequently.
Also, for the trolololol factor, you can use role play on a water absorber like Gastrodon.
Imprison+Protect+Heat Wave basically screws over a lot of teams as well as protects your Chloro users.
I think the problem is that people just want to use Ninetales like they do in regular OU.
Blank, I just put Safeguard on Togekiss lol, check out the RMT I posted.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3478088

The set is probably VERY outdated, but this guy says hi: http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/terrakion/vgc2012

 

[youngjake93]

How viable would Baton Pass be in doubles? Could certain pokes pull it off?

I've seen Ninjask pull it off against me QUITE easily. They only passed speed though and it was easy enough to deal with after the pass.
I'm sure Baton Pass could be viable, but you probably want to pass to something with decent bulk as it will get the shit kicked out of it fast unlike in singles.

 

[nyttyn]

This is a cool idea, but the idea behind Sun first turn on a Sun Team is mainly for things like Chlorophyll, which doesn't activate as soon as Sun goes up like most people think, at least not in PS.

Same thing with Tailwind, it doesn't activate til the end of the turn it's used.

I'm pretty sure that's due to how PS! is coded. And that's probably a bug.

 

[Manitary]

Nope, at least for Tailwind.

 

[Huy]

Speed is set at the beginning of the turn.

 

[youngjake93]

The set is probably VERY outdated, but this guy says hi: http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/terrakion/vgc2012

Chlorophyll abuser>Terrakion
Switching out>Terrakion
Protect>Terrakion

Just because Terrakion is popular doesn't mean Ninetales can't be good.

 

[drcossack]

I'm pretty sure that's due to how PS! is coded. And that's probably a bug.

Nope, Tailwind, Trick Room, and the speed boosts from a switched in automatic weather inducer (or manually set weather) will all apply either at the end of the turn (TW & TR) or the next (weather)

However, the power boost/reduction to water & fire moves/solarbeam (as does its charge turn [or lack thereof]) apply immediately.

 

[nyttyn]

Ah, I have been enlightened. In that case, you can always just protect on your Chlorophyl user, or send them out later. Plus, fire damage still happens, so there's that. Send that Sableye out with the Arcanine I showed earlier and not only do you have sunny day up, they're both at -1 attack and you can threaten with stab flare blitz. Not bad IMO.

 

[BlankZero]

Ah, I have been enlightened. In that case, you can always just protect on your Chlorophyl user, or send them out later. Plus, fire damage still happens, so there's that. Send that Sableye out with the Arcanine I showed earlier and not only do you have sunny day up, they're both at -1 attack and you can threaten with stab flare blitz. Not bad IMO.

Nope, not bad at all there, just not able to fit it on my team, though i'd love to.

 

[nyttyn]

This is kind of a deviation from current discussion, but eh. For everyone who's struggling to teambuild: Feel free to use my team. I've slapped around a few people with it, and it's even been warstory'd. It's a basic sand team that slaps the enemy around silly with powerful attacks from the word go. Not terribly much thought is required to use it. Probably will get you far.

Leonidus (Tyranitar) @ Chople Berry
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Crunch
- Rock Slide
- Low Kick
- Protect

This gal gets your sand up, which is pretty much crucial. Keep her alive if the enemy has weather, otherwise go to town with Rock Slide, Crunch, and Low Kick! Pretty damn powerful all things considered.

Lunar Swan (Cresselia) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Helping Hand
- Protect
- Icy Wind
- Trick Room

Cress will probably stay alive all game. Or for a good chunk of it. Just keep spaming Helping Hand and Icy Wind to your heart's content. Oh, and use Trick Room if the enemy uses it since this team's so Trick Room weak (doing so will end the Trick Room).

Inquisition (Excadrill) (F) @ Ground Gem
Trait: Sand Rush
EVs: 56 HP / 252 Atk / 200 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Magnet Rise
- Protect

Save Magnet Rise as your ace in the hole - otherwise just killmurder things with a blazingly fast speed that can't be matched. Save Rock Slide for if there are levitate/flymons - EQ usually outdamages.

Chuggaconroy (Volcarona) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Heat Wave
- Bug Buzz
- Quiver Dance
- Protect

Haha, now this is a fun pokemon. Match her setup with Latios and Hitmontop for a one-two-three punch that's really, really hard to deal with. If you get to +2/+2/+2, you basically win the game - but feel free to start Heat Waving at +1/+1/+1 or even at +0 if you think you've got an oppertunity to wreck the enemy.

WOOSH (Latios) (M) @ Dragon Gem
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock / Psychic / Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Substitute / Dragon Pulse
- Protect

Latios is basically the nuclear option - save him for if things are going tits up and you absolutely, positively need something dead.

Karate Dan (Hitmontop) @ Fighting Gem
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Sucker Punch
- Wide Guard / Protect

Lastly, Hitmontop is here for powerful Fake Out and Intimidate support. Sucker Punch is fairly decent, and Close Combat killmurders things. Wide Guard is motly there for utility.

Importable

Leonidus (Tyranitar) (F) @ Chople Berry
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Crunch
- Rock Slide
- Low Kick
- Protect

Lunar Swan (Cresselia) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Helping Hand
- Protect
- Icy Wind
- Trick Room

Inquisition (Excadrill) (F) @ Ground Gem
Trait: Sand Rush
EVs: 56 HP / 252 Atk / 200 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Magnet Rise
- Protect

Chuggaconroy (Volcarona) (F) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Heat Wave
- Bug Buzz
- Quiver Dance
- Protect

WOOSH (Latios) (M) @ Dragon Gem
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Substitute
- Protect

Karate Dan (Hitmontop) (F) @ Fighting Gem
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Sucker Punch
- Wide Guard

Honestly this team doesn't really need much explaining. Just click buttons and watch things die, switching out as needed.

 

[youngjake93]

That's a huge post...
Oh I got 11th on the ladder =]
Working toward number one! o_O

 

[Arcticblast]

I hosted another tourney on PS today (I enjoy doing these, could you tell?). Unfortunately, several users were somewhat inexperienced (from what I saw) and the battles weren't as high-caliber as before.

This is the final round (Count Bleck versus Blaziken148). Bleck had the upper hand early, with Victreebel's Chlorophyll completely shutting down Blaziken48's Terracott strategy. Unfortunately for Bleck, Blaziken48 was able to preserve his Terrakion! This match shows that Follow Me is in fact a very powerful move in Doubles. It also shows that hax can pile up, sadly... Both players played very well, gg to all!

My PiratePad management of the event, as well as all prior battle replays, can be found here.

 

[nyttyn]

After having given Perish Trapping a try, I can safely say it's currently gimmicky garbage that doesn't work in Doubles due to how much power is on display. I was going to make a post about it, but...well, it's just really really bad. Your opponent can probably kill the trapper within those three turns easily, and from there just swap out since, well, your perish song user probably isn't very aggressively threatening either.

Also, me and Pocket were talking about a challenge recently - expect to see news on that sometime soon.

 

[Sphoofle]

There's been an influx of Terrakion+Beat-Up combos lately. Sure, they're a one trick pony, but seriously, it's getting boring, especially since I need to limit my team building to having a surefire counter. Take notes guys: IT DOESN'T WORK.

Digressing from that, Thunder Wave is an incredibly powerful force in this meta! I can't really imagine making a team without it--it's hard enough coping with non-Prankster T-Wave.

 

[VarunR]

Yes, it only works the first few times. After that, it becomes too predictable and thus easy to counter.

 

[nyttyn]

Beat Up support is very, very useful on Defiant mons, but you've gotta be really careful when you bring it out. I wouldn't say "Stop using it," because it CAN work, but it has to be just one of the many tricks and tools you have on your team.

Think of a Doubles team as a swiss army knife, and Beat Up as that sharp as fuck little knife they have. Sure, it's limited in what it can do, but give it the right situation and it'll do the job, just like the screwdriver, the flashlight, and the mini-toaster.

 

[BlankZero]

Don't knock the TerraCott combo. If done right, you will annihilate teams with it.

Try to not be so obvious with it and it will make people cringe.

Try something like Weaville with Beat Up instead, or don't lead off with Terrakion, it's pretty simple.

Here's are play to showcase how you can do it.

 

[Jean mi]

Just a quick question about the TerraCott combo : Whimsicott outspeeds Terrakion so does that mean that beat up gets priority from prankster ? It seems wierd to me because beat up is not a status move, or is it ?