Gen V Initial NU Metagame Thread

[NatGeo]

on the note of bulk, I've been using Eviolite Misdreavus and it does absolutely phenomenally as a team player - not only can it spread burns but it gets access to Heal Bell as well which is absolutely amazing not just for helping teammates but for getting the better hand on other defensively-minded Pokemon, especially Quagsire who just likes to Toxic everything in sight. On that note, it's great to partner with Klingklang since you can at the very least weaken Quagsire enough with Misdreavus that you can just take it out with Return whenever you switch in. A physically defensive spread with WoW / Heal Bell / Shadow Ball / Pain Split is what i've been using.

EDIT: everybody join #neverused!

 

[StevenJones]

I can attest to Misdreavus' effectiveness. I run a Pain Split Toxic-stall set with Tbolt and Shadow Ball that works wonders. Opponents always underestimate her bulk and Special Attack.

 

[jake]

on the note of bulk, I've been using Eviolite Misdreavus and it does absolutely phenomenally as a team player - not only can it spread burns but it gets access to Heal Bell as well which is absolutely amazing not just for helping teammates but for getting the better hand on other defensively-minded Pokemon, especially Quagsire who just likes to Toxic everything in sight. On that note, it's great to partner with Klingklang since you can at the very least weaken Quagsire enough with Misdreavus that you can just take it out with Return whenever you switch in. A physically defensive spread with WoW / Heal Bell / Shadow Ball / Pain Split is what i've been using.

EDIT: everybody join #neverused!

Misdreavus really is phenomenal in general and by far the best (and like, only) spinblocker in the tier. It can beat basically every spinner one-on-one and makes a fantastic check for things like Sawk, whose CB Stone Edge only does like 36% lol.

edit: I don't care if NU isn't an official tier yet. When do we get to ban hail? It sucks enough shit that I carry three hail checks/counters and they're all critted/frozen by blizzspam... v_v

 

[tennisace]

zurich i've had a channel for like 3 weeks, its #genvnu =((((

Anyway people keep saying hail is an issue but I don't see it often at all? I mean that's probably going to be a good discussion and I can definitely see it being a large issue when we lose Klinklang/Slowking/Lanturn, but hail is also losing Rotom-F.

I haven't seen many Misdreavus but from what I've seen they're generally dicks to take down since nothing commonly carries Dark-type or Ghost-type moves. Definitely on my "to-try" list.

edit nevermind we're using #neverused officially sorry for the confusion people

 

[ChaoticaMortis]

tennisace is correct. No one uses Dodrio and Raichu (Swellow is much better than Dodrio, and Rotom-F is better than Raichu), and only Persian and Sneasel (both are pretty rare) tie with it, so max speed isn't mandatory. A little bulk EV's go a long way, so don't underestimate them.

If anyone didn't already know, Raichu is actually useful. Learned this from another user's post on Smogon a few months ago and now it might actually be of some use to us, as NU is a metagame with very few strong priority users or speed demons to get in Raichu's way.

Even though Raichu isn't used much, it does have a very unique trait in that it's fast enough to come in on a typical set-up/hazard Pokemon and Encore the enemy's set-up move. This allows Raichu to basically do whatever he feels like while the opponent either wastes away the encore turns or switches out, meaning he can easily set up a Substitute or Nasty Plot.
Sets with Lightning Rod as the ability can also come in on any Electric attack and Encore it, nabbing at least +1 to Raichu's SpAtk for free, then of course you can NP, etc. Basically, one good switch leaves you sitting on +3 or +4 SpAtk while the opponent's momentum is virtually put to a stop. All you really have to run other than Tbolt would be a coverage move to hurt pokemon that Electric attacks won't have an effect on, such as Torterra, Lanturn, and (insert generic ground-type here).

 

[AOPSUser]

Ninjask, Smeargle, and Pikachu. Hmm... BP team anyone?

 

[waterwarrior]

1. tennisace, you lucky lucky boy. Whenever I'm on, I'd say about 20% of my opponents carry Hail. And I wouldn't mind seeing it gone. Just having Rotom-F won't balance it at all, as all the Hail counters are leaving, and Wallrein and Glaceon are still gonna be here... and assholes.
2. Oh dear god Misdreavus... It needs to be seen more. Its a huge pain in the ass 99% of the time. The other 1% is because I get lucky with hax. Broken? Absolutely not.

 

[breh]

yeah, misdreavus is annoying as hell. it's the penultimate spinblocker; nothing kills it bar absol and bad moves on your opponent's part. it doesn't help that most good specs attackers are psychic types and extremely obvious ones, at that.

 

[Lady Shinki]

maybe to beat blizzspam teams you need to run a set like this:

Grumpig @ Leftovers
252 HP/216 Def/40 SpDef
Bold / Thick Fat

Calm Mind
Psychic
Rest
Signal Beam/Sleep Talk

Grumpig @ Leftovers
252 hp/216 def/40 spdef
bold / thick fat

Sunny Day
Psychic
Magic Coat
HP Fire

Certain things could play around it, like SubSplit rotom-f, but...seems like a fairly solid check to me

 

[conway]

1. tennisace, you lucky lucky boy. Whenever I'm on, I'd say about 20% of my opponents carry Hail. And I wouldn't mind seeing it gone. Just having Rotom-F won't balance it at all, as all the Hail counters are leaving, and Wallrein and Glaceon are still gonna be here... and assholes.
2. Oh dear god Misdreavus... It needs to be seen more. Its a huge pain in the ass 99% of the time. The other 1% is because I get lucky with hax. Broken? Absolutely not.

Dont worry, there is a relative big chance that snover is also going to move up to RU in December. :)

 

[tennisace]

Kenshiro if you're going to use a Thick Fat Pokemon as a specialized hail check, use Miltank. It has reliable recovery, other utility in Stealth Rock, and doesn't keel over and die to physical attacks.

 

[Rakan]

Not to mention Miltank has a nice base 100 Speed, which I did not know for the longest time... :o

 

[Heysup]

Played a bit, and Hail + Rotom-F is pretty insane....nothing can take really soak hits in this tier like the huge walls in UU.

I still like Encore NP Raichu over Rotom-F when I'm not using Hail.

Sorry if this was posted, but has anyone tried Eviolite offensive Roselia?

Roselia @ Eviolite
Timid
252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain / Leaf Storm
- Synthesis
- Spikes

241 HP / ~200 Def / ~300 SpD pretty hard to kill and hits pretty hard with its huge base 100 SpA. Maybe the Speed isn't needed that badly but I like outpacing Absol.

 

[jake]

Dont worry, there is a relative big chance that snover is also going to move up to RU in December. :)

...as are tons of other Pokemon. If these trends stay relatively the same, it looks like we'll be losing all of the following in the order of likelihood: Slowking, Lanturn, Rhydon, Scolipede, Snover, Braviary, Swellow, Klinklang, Magneton, and Rotom-F. Quite a list compared to what's around the borderline to drop: Charizard, Crawdaunt, Hariyama, Mandibuzz, Victreebel. Oh, and wouldn't Dugtrio be jumping up to OU?

Might as well throw your entire knowledge of the NU meta away by the time tiers change.

edit: I've seen some offensive Roselia and they're kind of annoying as hell. u_u

 

[shnen]

...as are tons of other Pokemon. If these trends stay relatively the same, it looks like we'll be losing all of the following in the order of likelihood: Slowking, Lanturn, Rhydon, Scolipede, Snover, Braviary, Swellow, Klinklang, Magneton, and Rotom-F. Quite a list compared to what's around the borderline to drop: Charizard, Crawdaunt, Hariyama, Mandibuzz, Victreebel. Oh, and wouldn't Dugtrio be jumping up to OU?

Might as well throw your entire knowledge of the NU meta away by the time tiers change.

edit: I've seen some offensive Roselia and they're kind of annoying as hell. u_u

SpeciL,y defensive Thick fat hariyama sounds like a fairly decent hail check(aside from jynx ) in conjuntuon with SR and rest talk, assuming snover does t leave of course. Hail is awesome, is rotom-f pretty much definetly gone?

 

[waterwarrior]

Hail is awesome, is rotom-f pretty much definetly gone?

| 55 | Rotom-F | 735 | 3.557% | 599 | 3.417% |

If Hail takes a dive in usage in RU, it will stay (or if people for some ridiculous reason don't run Rotom on their Hail team)

 

[jake]

You can't assume those will definitely be gone, but rather very likely. Things towards the top of that list (the top of RU stats, that is) like Slowking are much more likely to go than the ones at the bottom... like Rotom-F.

 

[NatGeo]

Snover is leaving anyways when tiering changes take effect, so I don't see a reason to ban hail now as opposed to just letting usage take its course (and of course get an opportunity to blizzspam in RU :D)

Anyways, Scarf Emboar is actually surprisingly good in this meta; it cleans up hail really effectively atm, which is really nice since you outspeeds everything except for Scarf Rotom-F

 

[shnen]

Snover is leaving anyways when tiering changes take effect, so I don't see a reason to ban hail now as opposed to just letting usage take its course (and of course get an opportunity to blizzspam in RU :D)

Anyways, Scarf Emboar is actually surprisingly good in this meta; it cleans up hail really effectively atm, which is really nice since you outspeeds everything except for Scarf Rotom-F

Well, i use scarf jynx so im not sure about evrything ;p
And yeah i understood that zebriaken, just phrased it bsdly: imeant to say "so rotom-f is looking very likely to leave eh?"

 

[Byrne]

Misdreavus is indeed the best possible spin blocker in the tier for defensive teams. The other options are like, what, Haunter or Banette? Misdreavus is actually quite bulky and sports a lot of solid support options. However, rapid spin users are generally rare in this tier anyway (Wartortle, Armaldo, and Cryogonal are really the only ones that are even remotely useful).

 

[NatGeo]

It's not even that it's a spinblocker: It's just a support mon that can be incredibly hard to take down if played correctly, considering you have great defenses with the eviolite boost and you have semi-reliable recovery in Pain Split. The fact that Shadow Ball alone hits a lot of frailer Pokemon in NU for decent damage is also a nice thing.

 

[Raikaria]

If anyone didn't already know, Raichu is actually useful. Learned this from another user's post on Smogon a few months ago and now it might actually be of some use to us, as NU is a metagame with very few strong priority users or speed demons to get in Raichu's way.

Even though Raichu isn't used much, it does have a very unique trait in that it's fast enough to come in on a typical set-up/hazard Pokemon and Encore the enemy's set-up move. This allows Raichu to basically do whatever he feels like while the opponent either wastes away the encore turns or switches out, meaning he can easily set up a Substitute or Nasty Plot.
Sets with Lightning Rod as the ability can also come in on any Electric attack and Encore it, nabbing at least +1 to Raichu's SpAtk for free, then of course you can NP, etc. Basically, one good switch leaves you sitting on +3 or +4 SpAtk while the opponent's momentum is virtually put to a stop. All you really have to run other than Tbolt would be a coverage move to hurt pokemon that Electric attacks won't have an effect on, such as Torterra, Lanturn, and (insert generic ground-type here).

Seconding this, although not the set mentioned. NP + 3 Attacks is better in my opinion, because of the coverage Raichu can get on it. Raichu lovs having Grass Knot for Ground-types, and HP Ice for Dragons/Grass types. Remember, Base 100 speed is FAST for NU.

Light Ball Pikachu is an option for a more suicidal attacker, but you'll never really get to set up with that, and that lower base speed is painful. After a Nasty Plot, Raichu is faster and hits harder than Pikachu.

Anyway, I'm going to the drawing board and making a new team. Admittedly, I've not been able to play much, and my brute force team isn't working as well as before.

 

[Limi]

There are also two other "spinblockers" worth mentioning: Frillish and Drifblim. Frillish can act like a mini-jellicent, serves great vs. Klinklang etc., as already discussed in this thread. And for Drifblim, there's this devious CMRest set, which uses Chestorest to activate Unburden and Calm Mind to boost up to frightening levels, and is a pain to fight against (with Shadow Ball and TBolt/HP fighting as attacking moves). I haven't tried it very much, but I have been swept by it. Your best bet probably is to prevent it from resting, as it is pretty much impossible to revenge after that and will just sweep your team. There's also the Ghost/Flight Gem sets, but I've hardly seen them at all and can't really say much about them.

One thing I want to say is that you shouldn't use Ghosts for spinblocking, considering the rarity of the spinners themselves. If Missy/Frillish fit your stall team well, then it's a great bonus, but I don't think the role of a spinblocker is important enough to warrant shoehorning a ghost into your team when it doesn't fit in at all. It's similar to Gengar in OU: you don't use him for spinblocking; it just comes as an extra package. So use Missy/Frillish as a wall that happens to act as a blocker and not as a blocker that happens to act as a wall. Same for the other ghosts and attacking.

 

[Raikaria]

I think I'd rather utilize Encore when HP Ice hits Ground-types just as hard and gives great coverage in itself, only missing out on Magneton and Lanturn. At that point GK still doesn't even help you because Magneton resists and it hits Lanturn for 20 BP.

Personally I like Grass Knot because hit hits things like Rhydon harder, although I can see the applications of Encore, it just dosen't really fit my kind of playstyle, unless I'm using something like Jumpluff in a higher teir...

*Realises Jumpluff is in NU, was sure it was RU*

Excuse me while I remake my team again and include Troll-Luff. Should be rather effective when you realise it outspeeds... vitrually anything that can hurt it in the teir, and there are not many grass types that are common. I caused ragequits in early UU with Jumpluff...

 

[NatGeo]

JumPluff seems ok it's just that you always have to watch out for swellow, who outspeeds and threatens a brave bird - you can't stun spore it if it's already had toxic orb activated. That and scarf rotom will maul you of hail is up.