Dusknoir (Analysis)



[Overview]

<p>Last generation, Dusknoir found itself struggling to stay in OU, and with the introduction of many powerful threats in BW, it has finally made the drop to UU. This new generation has replaced Dusknoir's old competition, the Rotom formes, with new Ghost-types, namely Cofagrigus, Golurk, and even Dusknoir's pre-evolution Dusclops.</p>

<p>However, Dusknoir is far from unusable this generation. It functions very capably in UU, with some of its spinblocking competition, namely Jellicent and Chandelure, restricted to OU. Dusknoir can also be used over its pre-evolution due to the fact that it can actually cause direct damage without relying on Night Shade or Seismic Toss, and it can it can also carry Leftovers, which is a major benefit overall. Dusknoir can be used over the likes of Cofagrigus or Golurk because of its higher overall defenses (although only its Special Defense is higher compared to Cofagrigus), and because it has Pressure, which is always a respectable ability. Dusknoir can still perform well despite the setbacks it faces this generation.</p>

[SET]
name: Tank
move 1: Will-O-Wisp
move 2: Pain Split
move 3: Shadow Sneak
move 4: Return / Earthquake
item: Leftovers
ability: Pressure
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Dusknoir's standard set from last generation is back, albeit changed around a bit to suit the UU environment. Its main advantage over Dusclops is its ability to actually hit back after tanking damage, mostly to Pokemon immune to Will-O-Wisp, which can be used to shut down most of the physical attackers in the tier. Pain Split is for recovery, and is quite useful, due to Dusknoir's low base HP stat.</p>

<p>The last two moves are for defeating potential counters. Shadow Sneak can be used to pick off weakened foes. Return is better than Earthquake in this tier since it can hit Flying-types, and is usually recommended; Earthquake generally is only useful for defeating Flash Fire Pokemon that come in to absorb Will-O-Wisp.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>While Dusclops can pull off a similar set better with Eviolite boosting its defenses, Dusknoir has access to Leftovers and can hit back, something Dusclops cannot do. There are also other options for this set; Toxic can be used over Will-O-Wisp, but Toxic is less useful against physical attackers, and ThunderPunch can be used in the last slot, as it can help with the numerous bulky Water-types in this tier.</p>

<p>Guts users such as Heracross can be a pain to deal with, as they will take a Will-O-Wisp and try to KO back, so Flying-type support is recommended. This set is also susceptible to status and entry hazards, so a cleric or Rapid Spin user is recommended as well.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Dusknoir can run a SubPunch or Choice Band set, but these are generally outclassed by Golurk in UU due to the latter's higher Attack and Iron Fist. A defensive Trick Room set is also largely outclassed by Dusclops, but Dusknoir could make an average Trick Room sweeper.</p>

<p>Dusknoir has many other status moves it could use to some success. A Torment set could work due to Dusknoir's high defenses, but the lack of resistances could be somewhat off-putting. A RestTalk set could work, especially since the Rotom formes are no longer Ghost-type, but you could run into a Pokemon that could KO you while you are sleeping before you can use Rest again. Calm Mind could work to fake out opponents that usually expect physical Dusknoir, but Spiritomb and Cofagrigus are better Calm Mind users due to their higher Special Attack. Counter could surprise Pokemon wishing to 2HKO Dusknoir, but it is risky, especially without Wish support.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Pursuit users can often seriously dent Dusknoir if they're not burned. Hard-hitting atackers immune to or even benefiting from Will-O-Wisp, such as Heracross or any Flash Fire user, can get a free switch in and KO Dusknoir.</p>

<p>Defensively, any Pokemon using Substitute can block Will-O-Wisp and Pain Split, although Dusknoir can break through the Substitutes. Spiritomb can wall Dusknoir and beat it with STAB Dark Pulse. Status moves will wreak havoc on Dusknoir without Rest or cleric support. Xatu in particular is dangerous, as it can reflect Will-O-Wisp back at Dusknoir.</p>
 

breh

強いだね
make sure that none of these sets are outclassed by Dusclops, btw.
Subsplit Focus Punch+Sucker Punch also seems good. It needs 44 Spe to outspeed Chansey though (or at least I think it's 44).
 
I have included reasons to use Dusknoir in each set except for Gravity, which has the same reason as Trick Room.

Also, I added the Subsplit set.
 
I would just slash Pain Split and Sucker Punch on the SubPunch set since the last two sets are pretty similar, it would save quite a bit of work
 

breh

強いだね
let's see: Tanknoir is outclassed (I'm not sure why you would need to hit chansey when you have pain split; Fire Punch does 12.5% - 14.8% to 252 Def Chansey, which is hilariously bad; staying in vs. Mismagius is inherently stupid because it'll just burn you or KO you faster than you can KO it), Roomnoir is outclassed (Shadow Punch is a terrible move in most cases; Night Shade is generally stronger), and Gravitynoir is just... bad (never try to base a set on Gravity; it doesn't work... trust me).

I'd suggest heavy changes to those sets or total removal of them.
 
Deleted Trick Room and Gravity and changed Fire Punch to Earthquake in the Tank set. Also added a Choice Band set.
 
Sounds interesting. How does it work?
Okay, I assume you know how Torment works, it means that the opposing Pokemon can't use the same move twice in a row. Ghost is a good enough defensive type that most pokes will only run one attack the hits for Super effective damage if they run any at all. Using Torment forces them to use a move that won't be nearly as good ever other turn while Protect protects you from the STAB or super effective move. Pain Split provides you with recovery and is also your primary form of damage. When they are on low enough HP due to Pain Split hit them with Shadow Sneak for the KO. Choice users get completely trolled as they must alternate between Struggle and it's move which you Protect away eventually killing themselves through recoil. If they survive long enough you might even force them to use Struggle every turn due to Pressure. Essentially this set is just really, really annoying to face.
 
Status owns tormentNoir..... Torment is only viable on Heatran because of its numerous resistances and immunities, especially to Toxic and Burn. I would think an OO mention at best. Also, since its so slow, it will still get destroyed by common threats.
 
Return needs to be slashed with Earthquake on the first set because it's WAY more reliable. Yes, I know hitting Arcanine and Victini super effectively is fun since they are immune to Will-O-Wisp (note: Return destroys Houndoom anyway), however without them you are now weak to something you're supposed to counter: Heracross. You are also weak to Zapdos, Rotom-A and really anything else with Levitate or Flying-type that isn't a Ghost and doesn't care about Will-O-Wisp. The biggest concern, until it's banned, is SubRaptor. You can't touch it. It will destroy something on your team and there's nothing you can do because it gets a free Substitute.

tl;dr until (if) Staraptor is banned, slash Return > Earthquake.

Second, I have some serious doubts about the Choice Band set - it's stupidly risky with literally no reward. It's basically inferior in every way offensively to Golurk and Golurk can at least dent resists with its Focus Punch/Earthquake/Shadow Punch. The risks with Golurk also carry over such as giving Staraptor, Zapdos, and others free switch ins if locked into the wrong attack. Golurk has the reward of predicting right = kill, however base 100 Attack without Iron Fist is not always going to net you a kill even with the proper prediction.

Will look into the CB set a bit more.
 

Oglemi

Borf
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OK me SDS and Snunch agreed that the first set is really the only thing Dusknoir should be doing. CB and SubPunch are pretty much strictly outclassed by Golurk. Torment seems gimmicky at best.

Move the other sets besides the first one to OO and consider this approved.



QC 1/3
 

prem

failed abortion
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by moving to OO he just meant refer to them in OO, but do not actually give set analysis's to them. also change the title by going to edit -> advanced edit giving the number of QC checks you have
 
You don't just move the entire sets to the OO... there only needs to be a simple mention of each set in bullet points, no entire sets posted. Just in case you didn't know :)
 
Maybe you should move those 28 atk EVs into defense to be as bulky as possible, unless there's something they help to OHKO or 2HKO. As far as I know, the only purpose of 28 atk EVs was to OHKO Heatran after SR which obviously isn't relevant in UU.
 
OK, I might be crazy, but Choice band has merit over Golurk. One move makes the difference in my opinion, and that would be Trick. You can cripple a wall, which is really nice. I think Trick makes Choice Band viable.

This just my opinion of course, you don't have to listen.
 

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