Which Pokemon might be good for a rain Super Doubles team without adding too many weaknesses? I seem to be running into a wall. Aegislash seems to do well, and Pelipper is required. Ludicolo can take special hits and can Fake Out, but is a bit weaker than I'd like with the Assault Vest set. That, and the Poison and Flying weaknesses really hurt, like with Grass types in general. Are there any non-obvious Pokemon that would still fit the theme of a rain team? I must be missing something.
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Battle Tree Discussion and Records
- Thread starter Eisenherz
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I used to run Moltres and Volcarona in rain for that Hurricane / Grass resist but you will obviously need some good Rock resists. Thundurus / Tornadus usually slot in nicely, too.
Damn police officers. 277 battles later, my streak is over.
Posting a completed Super Doubles run of 777 wins (c00l digits).
Battle No. 778 vs Police Officer Lou: LXTW-WWWW-WWW5-8RN8 [Tyranitar/Rotom-Mow/Hippowdon/Shuckle]
- A pretty anticlimactic loss. Not protecting Oranguru against Tyranitar turn 1 was the first sign that my brain wasn't fully in the game. I played the other half correctly, but assuming Tyranitar3 survived the Flash Cannon (I got a high roll in this instance) and DD'd to ensure the Crunch OHKO next turn, I'd just switch Oranguru out for Mimikyu and try to set TR up later on. Bringing Araquanid in afterwards was also a mistake; I was able to bait Rock Slide + the Electric move, but it was foolish to give up the Balloon against a Trainer class rife with Ground/Rock types. Had I brought in Mimikyu instead, I could've picked off Tyranitar with Shadow Sneak and started to wear down the Rotom. I guess there's no guarantee it wouldn't have targeted Magnezone in that scenario either, but I'd like to think it'd try to Thunder Wave Mimikyu or break its Disguise. With no chance of Araquanid outspeeding Rotom or Hippowdon, and Magnezone's Balloon popped, I knew I was in a bad spot unless I got lucky and dodged a Thunder. Spoiler....I didn't, and things went on a swift downward spiral from there.
Here's the team again for reference:
..One more thing I'd like to add. I'll delve into Singles play eventually, but right now I'm having a lot of fun experimenting with Doubles strategies; sure, both formats will always give rise to a select few dominant archetypes, and within those reside a select few Pokemon that stand out from the rest. With the latter format however, you're given the opportunity to be a little more flexible; at least, that's how I see it. All in all though, I'm really enjoying the Battle Tree. Having to cover for the new Alola mons, Megas and Z-Moves spices things up a great deal; the Maison's roster admittedly got a little stale once you got a decent streak rolling, so having to regularly consult the Tree spreadsheet throughout my playtime so far has been a positive, refreshing sign.
{Closing comment} Here's the cold hard proof that you can indeed Protect a Pokemon and attack with it...in the same turn!
https://media.giphy.com/media/I5TgxVq0QkPzq/giphy.gif
Oh, and NoCheese, whenever you update the OP, could you please also link my post with added info back on pg. 55? Thanks!
Battle No. 624 vs Black Belt Arnold: NRGW-WWWW-WWW5-8RJJ [Tyrantrum/Mienshao/Chesnaught/Unfezant]
- It's not often I find myself switching Oranguru out first turn, but it was necessary to cover for a potential double target; I assumed in this case Tyrantrum4 had Strong Jaw, otherwise it wouldn't have gone for Crunch over Head Smash. The following turn I put the opponent in a position where he would be punished no matter what play he could make; double target on Magnezone = free +2 for Mimikyu, or Crunch on Mimikyu/HJK on Magnezone means it survives thanks to Sturdy. Both outcomes would've ultimately ended with a KO on Tyrantrum, which I'd planned from the start for Oranguru to come back in safely and setup TR to commence the Araquanid destruction.
Battle No. 660 vs ...Aether Foundation Luke?? SBDW-WWWW-WWW5-8RKF [Toxapex/Walrein/Rotom-Frost/Mega Metagross]
- Smuckem alerted me to this strange bug, and it was the first time I faced a non-Battle Legend on the 'every 10th battle', in any streak in the Tree. The battle itself was a pretty straightforward one; Protecting Oranguru whenever you see a Walrein is common sense, + the Psychic chip damage on MegaGross ensures the Hydro Vortex OHKO.
Battle No. 676 vs Preschooler Naya: A73G-WWWW-WWW5-8RLC [Salamence/Cresselia/Kommo-o/Heatran]
- After establishing Salamence's set (entirely special), this poor kid didn't have a whole lot for Araquanid behind a Substitute. The useless Protect was a little annoying (thought Mence might've tried to Draco to get rid of the Sub, but Oranguru possessed the bulk to tank both hits regardless.
Battle No. 707 vs Scientist Cadel: PN4W-WWWW-WWW5-8RMW [Gastrodon/Drampa/Carbink/Dusknoir]
- Magnezone was a worthy early sacrifice here, as I'd already decided from the start that Mimikyu would be my ticket to dismantling the two leads (though I should've attacked with Oranguru instead). Good thing I didn't TR either after seeing Gastrodon start Cursing, though his pal Carbink did that for him. Still I wasn't too worried, considering Mimikyu's Disguise was still intact and Gastrodon would need +3 to even have a chance of 2HKO'ing Oranguru. Thanks to Instruct I was able to boost Mimikyu's attack much faster and overwhelm my opponent.
Battle No. 737 vs Police Officer Lou: N3XW-WWWW-WWW5-8RML [Palossand/Gliscor/Dugtrio/Flygon]
- Just another Magnezone sac to pave the way for some Araquanid annihilation, Flash Cannon on Gliscor to break a potential Focus Sash.
Posting a completed Super Doubles run of 777 wins (c00l digits).
Battle No. 778 vs Police Officer Lou: LXTW-WWWW-WWW5-8RN8 [Tyranitar/Rotom-Mow/Hippowdon/Shuckle]
- A pretty anticlimactic loss. Not protecting Oranguru against Tyranitar turn 1 was the first sign that my brain wasn't fully in the game. I played the other half correctly, but assuming Tyranitar3 survived the Flash Cannon (I got a high roll in this instance) and DD'd to ensure the Crunch OHKO next turn, I'd just switch Oranguru out for Mimikyu and try to set TR up later on. Bringing Araquanid in afterwards was also a mistake; I was able to bait Rock Slide + the Electric move, but it was foolish to give up the Balloon against a Trainer class rife with Ground/Rock types. Had I brought in Mimikyu instead, I could've picked off Tyranitar with Shadow Sneak and started to wear down the Rotom. I guess there's no guarantee it wouldn't have targeted Magnezone in that scenario either, but I'd like to think it'd try to Thunder Wave Mimikyu or break its Disguise. With no chance of Araquanid outspeeding Rotom or Hippowdon, and Magnezone's Balloon popped, I knew I was in a bad spot unless I got lucky and dodged a Thunder. Spoiler....I didn't, and things went on a swift downward spiral from there.
Here's the team again for reference:
The end battle was definitely one I should've played better, but that's the beauty of being human; we all make mistakes, and we should try our best to learn from them. I'm not terribly upset over the loss; this team went beyond what I initially thought it was capable of, and then some. Araquanid is (in my humble opinion) one of the better TR attackers to partner with Oranguru, not to mention a fantastic Z-Move user if you're looking for one of those. Just bear in mind that you shouldn't be using Oranguru over a bulkier TR setter if you're not going to make good use of Instruct, and to a lesser extent Inner Focus/Telepathy. I'll probably put the team up as a QR Rental in the near future, for anyone keen to give it a crack. There's not a whole lot more I could think of adding, apart from...more Battle Videos! Hopefully they'll give more insight into the different matchups that were thrown this team's way, and why I made certain plays over others.
Oranguru (M) ("Maurice") @ Mental Herb
Nature: Sassy
Ability: Inner Focus
IVs: 31/5/31/31/31/0
- Trick Room
- Instruct
- Psychic
- Protect
252 HP / 140 Def / 20 SpA / 96 SpD
This wise ape certainly fit the bill for the first piece of the puzzle; respectable enough bulk, few weaknesses, unaffected by flinching moves, one-time immunity to Taunt and to a lesser extent Attract grants him very favourable odds of setting up Trick Room when required. The signature move Instruct is arguably his main selling point, enabling my teammates to launch two attacks in the same turn. There's a great deal of strategy involved with this as I soon discovered, since the Instructed move will always target the same Pokemon from the last turn. With Magnezone especially, you can do things like attack something you outspeed Turn 1 while TR goes up, then Instruct Magnezone Turn 2 to finish the mon off thanks to Oranguru's lower Speed. This also offers synergy with Mimikyu; being able to get a double Shadow Sneak or Play Rough off is a huge boon, or even an immediate +4 Attack behind the safety of Disguise. Telepathy is obviously a viable choice for avoiding self-spread damage from the likes of Surf, Earthquake and Discharge, but just so happens to be useless for this particular team. The EV's were taken from the Trainer Tower's VGC '17 sample section, with the SpA investment allowing you to OHKO Salazzle with Psychic. I can't detail specific defensive or other offensive benchmarks at the moment unfortunately, but this monkey doesn't often go down in one hit, that's the important thing.
Magnezone ("Magneto") @ Air Balloon
Nature: Modest
Ability: Sturdy
IVs: 31/0/31/31/31/31
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Volt Switch
- Protect
172 HP / 252 SpA / 84 Spe
A pretty unconventional mon to have in the second slot alongside my TR setter you might think, Magnezone however plays a pivotal role in shaping how battles play out to my favour. I wanted to aim for a middling Speed stat that would allow me to get hits on common slow-ish threats first turn (bulky Waters, Veteran classes with Regirock, Regice etc.), either Instructing right off the bat to eliminate them or taking a more long term approach with TR. 91 Spe gets the jump on stuff like Barbaracle4, Bisharp4, Politoed4 and Breloom4, yet still enabling Magnezone to deal with faster mons in TR. Air Balloon with Sturdy is a fantastic combination as it forces threatening Ground leads to first break the Balloon with a much weaker, often resisted attack; the opponent also has to double up on Magnezone (save for Mold Breaker) if they wish to take it out, relieving pressure on Oranguru if needed. Something I've noticed is you need to be careful with when you choose to Protect; it's a good move to make if you're up against two Fire or Fighting leads for example, but attacking from the beginning and not preserving Sturdy is often a more rewarding play. TR turns won't last forever, and sometimes setting it up twice in one battle is a tough ask, so you need to make the most of it. Yeah, couldn't be bothered breeding for a HP Fire/Ice variant; I realize the former would help out greatly against Ferrothorn, but thankfully it can't do a whole lot back to Magnezone. Volt Switch has proven to be useful a few times anyway, allowing me to pivot with Sturdy and/or the Balloon still intact.
Araquanid (M) ("BubbleO'Bill") @ Waterium Z
Nature: Brave
Ability: Water Bubble
IVs: 31/31/31/4/31/0
- Liquidation {Hydro Vortex}
- Leech Life
- Substitute
- Protect
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
The star TR abuser, I'd always wanted try out the Z-move variant of this spider of doom after witnessing it destroy lives in the current VGC '17 metagame. Thankfully he hasn't disappointed in the Tree, either. I don't think much of an explanation is needed here; Hydro Vortex hits like a truck, and is great for annoyances like Double Team Regigigas, Zapdos and Blissey, since Z-moves ignore evasion modifiers. Leech Life is fairly weak coming off Araquanid's modest Attack stat and lack of a boosting item, but still definitely worth running for healing and Water-resists. It often won't take out something weak to Bug if they're reasonably bulky, but Instruct can solve that issue. I didn't feel Wide Guard was necessary since Magnezone has the Balloon, resists Rock Slide and can take on Blizzard users comfortably, plus Heat Wave isn't all that common. Substitute has proven quite useful towards the end game of certain battles, usually to shield/stall against something like Cresselia/Milotic/Toxapex which I can't deal much damage to, but they can't really hurt me behind a Sub, either.
Mimikyu (F) ("Winky") @ Wide Lens
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Disguise
IVs: 31/31/31/11/31/31
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- Play Rough
- Taunt
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Last but not least I wanted a decent Dragon answer, and Magnezone doesn't count since it can't hit them super effectively, and many carry Ground/Fire coverage. I guess Mimikyu's often seen as a TR setter itself, but I didn't want another one of those; this max Speed variant often comes out late in the battle after some TR devastation has been dealt, to set up a Swords Dance or two thanks to Disguise and begin the clean-up process. I initially ran Life Orb, but after missing Play Rough on a Salamence twice in one battle and losing as a result in the early 50s, Wide Lens was the fix I wanted. There's probably a couple notable OHKO's/2HKO's that LO grants, but ultimately I'd much rather have near-100% faith that Play Rough will connect when I need it to. I felt Taunt was more useful over Protect to stop status in general from hampering my attempts to wreak havoc, which works well against the aforementioned stallish mons that take a long time to wear down.
..One more thing I'd like to add. I'll delve into Singles play eventually, but right now I'm having a lot of fun experimenting with Doubles strategies; sure, both formats will always give rise to a select few dominant archetypes, and within those reside a select few Pokemon that stand out from the rest. With the latter format however, you're given the opportunity to be a little more flexible; at least, that's how I see it. All in all though, I'm really enjoying the Battle Tree. Having to cover for the new Alola mons, Megas and Z-Moves spices things up a great deal; the Maison's roster admittedly got a little stale once you got a decent streak rolling, so having to regularly consult the Tree spreadsheet throughout my playtime so far has been a positive, refreshing sign.
{Closing comment} Here's the cold hard proof that you can indeed Protect a Pokemon and attack with it...in the same turn!
https://media.giphy.com/media/I5TgxVq0QkPzq/giphy.gif
Oh, and NoCheese, whenever you update the OP, could you please also link my post with added info back on pg. 55? Thanks!
Battle No. 624 vs Black Belt Arnold: NRGW-WWWW-WWW5-8RJJ [Tyrantrum/Mienshao/Chesnaught/Unfezant]
- It's not often I find myself switching Oranguru out first turn, but it was necessary to cover for a potential double target; I assumed in this case Tyrantrum4 had Strong Jaw, otherwise it wouldn't have gone for Crunch over Head Smash. The following turn I put the opponent in a position where he would be punished no matter what play he could make; double target on Magnezone = free +2 for Mimikyu, or Crunch on Mimikyu/HJK on Magnezone means it survives thanks to Sturdy. Both outcomes would've ultimately ended with a KO on Tyrantrum, which I'd planned from the start for Oranguru to come back in safely and setup TR to commence the Araquanid destruction.
Battle No. 660 vs ...Aether Foundation Luke?? SBDW-WWWW-WWW5-8RKF [Toxapex/Walrein/Rotom-Frost/Mega Metagross]
- Smuckem alerted me to this strange bug, and it was the first time I faced a non-Battle Legend on the 'every 10th battle', in any streak in the Tree. The battle itself was a pretty straightforward one; Protecting Oranguru whenever you see a Walrein is common sense, + the Psychic chip damage on MegaGross ensures the Hydro Vortex OHKO.
Battle No. 676 vs Preschooler Naya: A73G-WWWW-WWW5-8RLC [Salamence/Cresselia/Kommo-o/Heatran]
- After establishing Salamence's set (entirely special), this poor kid didn't have a whole lot for Araquanid behind a Substitute. The useless Protect was a little annoying (thought Mence might've tried to Draco to get rid of the Sub, but Oranguru possessed the bulk to tank both hits regardless.
Battle No. 707 vs Scientist Cadel: PN4W-WWWW-WWW5-8RMW [Gastrodon/Drampa/Carbink/Dusknoir]
- Magnezone was a worthy early sacrifice here, as I'd already decided from the start that Mimikyu would be my ticket to dismantling the two leads (though I should've attacked with Oranguru instead). Good thing I didn't TR either after seeing Gastrodon start Cursing, though his pal Carbink did that for him. Still I wasn't too worried, considering Mimikyu's Disguise was still intact and Gastrodon would need +3 to even have a chance of 2HKO'ing Oranguru. Thanks to Instruct I was able to boost Mimikyu's attack much faster and overwhelm my opponent.
Battle No. 737 vs Police Officer Lou: N3XW-WWWW-WWW5-8RML [Palossand/Gliscor/Dugtrio/Flygon]
- Just another Magnezone sac to pave the way for some Araquanid annihilation, Flash Cannon on Gliscor to break a potential Focus Sash.
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I have been lurking on this thread (and the Battle Maison one) for a long time so "Hi everybody". I really wanted to come up with my own team before posting anything.
I bred a couple of shinys in this gen and the previous one and I wanted to give them the occasion to shine more in the Battle Tree (with a bit of Hyper Training). It's inspired by the team I used to beat the AI Multi in the Battle Maison. So here's the team, I've just reached 70 yesterday. I've had a few close calls, nothing too bad, but it's getting more stressful as I feel like the team has probably weaknesses I did not see. (Though it will most likely never bring bring me to your hundreds and thousands, it's pretty fun to play).
Threats: Anything faster than Charizard requires a bit more of thinking (Aerodactyl, Gengar, Jolteon are some I remember). I've had a couple of trick rooms with strong Rock types that were dangerous. I also had a bad experience with a Rain Dance Jolteon that kept setting the Rain before I could attack (which locked my solar beam for its Water partners).
If anybody has any idea how to tweak it and make it better (with those mons if possible, I'd like to push this team as far as it can go), I'd gladly take advices (Replace Hydropump by Scald? Better held objects use?). Is there other big threats I should be aware of? Let me know
One video (not very representative though, but I did not think of taking one before that...):
U3JG-WWWW-WWW5-9X98
I bred a couple of shinys in this gen and the previous one and I wanted to give them the occasion to shine more in the Battle Tree (with a bit of Hyper Training). It's inspired by the team I used to beat the AI Multi in the Battle Maison. So here's the team, I've just reached 70 yesterday. I've had a few close calls, nothing too bad, but it's getting more stressful as I feel like the team has probably weaknesses I did not see. (Though it will most likely never bring bring me to your hundreds and thousands, it's pretty fun to play).
Team Description:
Asarah (Charizard) @ Charizardite X
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe / -Atk)
- Heat Wave
- Solar Beam
- Focas Blast
- Protect
Entei @ Choice Band
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature (Atk+ / SpA-)
- Sacred Fire
- Stone Edge
- Iron Head
- Protect
Sonikrok (Garchomp) @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (Spe+ / SpA-)
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Fire Fang
Akwakwatt (Rotom) @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 80 SpA / 172 Spe
Modest Nature (SpA+ / Atk-)
- Thunderbolt
- Hydropump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Protect
Charizard and Entei lead. Charizard mega-evolves and sets the Sun on the first turn usually attacking with Heat Wave (or Solar Beam for slow bulky Rock types) or Protecting if anything is threatening it. Entei usually goes with STAB sun-boosted banded Sacred Fire which usually kills anything that doesn't double-resist it (especially when it's been weakened by Heat Wave). Being pretty frail, Charizard is very often targeted by the opponent, so Garchomp and Rotom are there to switch in and take the threatening Electric and Rock moves after the first turn, while Entei keeps doing its job.
Threats: Anything faster than Charizard requires a bit more of thinking (Aerodactyl, Gengar, Jolteon are some I remember). I've had a couple of trick rooms with strong Rock types that were dangerous. I also had a bad experience with a Rain Dance Jolteon that kept setting the Rain before I could attack (which locked my solar beam for its Water partners).
If anybody has any idea how to tweak it and make it better (with those mons if possible, I'd like to push this team as far as it can go), I'd gladly take advices (Replace Hydropump by Scald? Better held objects use?). Is there other big threats I should be aware of? Let me know
One video (not very representative though, but I did not think of taking one before that...):
U3JG-WWWW-WWW5-9X98
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My current attempt at Super Doubles is with Pelipper, Togedemaru, Kabutops, and Ludicolo. I added Scald to Pelipper, so it should add a bit of damage to things resistant to Hurricane.
Togedemaru is my Lightning Rod user, with a Careful nature and max Special Defense and HP. It also paralyzes its opponents with Nuzzle and attempts to flinch them to death with Zing Zap and Fake Out. Spiky Shield is there to bait various attacks. It's surprisingly resilient if it isn't a super-effective hit.
EDIT: Thanks to Togedemaru, I finally got my revenge on Wally, or "Blasco", as he's called in the translation I'm playing. I may not have played perfectly, but that underrated rodent saved me where stronger Pokemon had failed. Here's the video if any of you want to see it:
GCJW-WWWW-WWW5-98EY
Togedemaru is my Lightning Rod user, with a Careful nature and max Special Defense and HP. It also paralyzes its opponents with Nuzzle and attempts to flinch them to death with Zing Zap and Fake Out. Spiky Shield is there to bait various attacks. It's surprisingly resilient if it isn't a super-effective hit.
EDIT: Thanks to Togedemaru, I finally got my revenge on Wally, or "Blasco", as he's called in the translation I'm playing. I may not have played perfectly, but that underrated rodent saved me where stronger Pokemon had failed. Here's the video if any of you want to see it:
GCJW-WWWW-WWW5-98EY
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Oh.. oh damn. That will come in really freaking handy. Thank you for discovering and sharing this!
That said, do you believe it ran off the usual Protect counter and could have failed like any move Instructed under incompatible circumstances? Since you just reset your streak, would you mind playing around with it to see what you learn? Unfortunately unlike ORAS the game really doesn't have any double battles for experimentation, Sketch, or any of the number of useful things you could do with them. My own streak is close to 100 which is not a good time to try potentially futile things. But my Drampa would freaking love abusing this if it turns out to work more easily than dumb luck! (then again it requires paralysis in the first place, which is situational as it is)
Since we're both using one, have you noticed that pretty much everyone that runs Fake Out uses it against Oranguru and no one else? It's kind of silly. At one point a Mega Kanga entered third, well after Hariyama was sitting at -2 from multiple Close Combats, and Mommy uses her double helping of Fake Out on Oranguru. Did shit damage, for that matter, when she could have otherwise assisted in taking down Hariyama or finished him by herself. I've encountered a ton of users, and IIRC every single one of them has targeted the one poke with Inner Focus, every time.
I tried to Instruct for a double Protect only one other time during my streak, and it didn't work; I know that's not exactly a sufficient sample size, but I'm still pretty certain Instructed Protects (and any other similar move) behave in exactly the same way their regular counterparts would, with the same chance of failing on a second attempt. So sadly, I wouldn't recommend it as a reliable strategy. And yeah, you're damn right about it being very situational (unfortunately); it was thanks to a Bulldoze Regigigas earlier in the battle that my Oranguru was slower, and I was in a comfortable enough position to try my luck there.
Heh, the AI behaving stupidly around Inner Focus definitely hasn't gone unnoticed on my end either; free turns when the opponent aimlessly uses Fake Out on Oranguru is always appreciated. I even recall a battle where Starmie4 King's Rock-flinched its teammate with Surf; a great turn 1 since Oranguru obviously had no chance of being affected.
hey guys. looking for advice/input on this team im working on. with the bank update, I decided to challenge myself and go for 50 wins in the battle tree doubles, using only RBY mons transferred from VC. I love that GB logo.. i guess its my inner gen wunner :) heres the team ive come up with, but i think the 4th slot could use some tweaking.. what say you tree dwellers?
Leads:
Zapdos* @ ???
Static
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunder
- Hidden Power Grass
- Roost
- Air Slash/Discharge/T-Wave/Volt Switch/Ancientpower???
Notes: Last move slot is undecided as well as item. Considering leftovers to preserve health along with roost. For the move, not sure.. Do i just specs/AV this bird and run 4 attacks?
Politoed @ Damp Rock
Drizzle
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast (hate this move)
- TBD
Notes: The idea is this dude and Zapdos spamming powerful attacks out front to run through teams, or dent them heavily before the backline comes in to clean up shop. Considering bulking up the EVs a bit as well as specs for extra power although thatll cut Zapdos' Thunder reign short.
--------------------
Backline: Im between Mega Kanga and friend TBA, or Sheer Force Tauros and Mega Venusaur. Leaning towards the former.
Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Inner Focus
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Body Slam/Double Edge/Return
- Sucker Punch
- Seismic Toss/??!
Notes: Does Seismic Toss deal 50HP damage twice because of parental bond? If not, that slot is up for debate as well.
Other considerations: Clefable in the 4th slot running Calm Mind, Moonblast, Moonlight, Seismic Toss/Flamethrower, or Nidoking with the Life Orb.
Craziest idea I had was running Absorb Bulb Zapdos and hitting it with a Surf from Politoed on turn 1, but I haaaate damaging my own team.
Gimme your thoughts guys!
Leads:
Zapdos* @ ???
Static
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunder
- Hidden Power Grass
- Roost
- Air Slash/Discharge/T-Wave/Volt Switch/Ancientpower???
Notes: Last move slot is undecided as well as item. Considering leftovers to preserve health along with roost. For the move, not sure.. Do i just specs/AV this bird and run 4 attacks?
Politoed @ Damp Rock
Drizzle
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast (hate this move)
- TBD
Notes: The idea is this dude and Zapdos spamming powerful attacks out front to run through teams, or dent them heavily before the backline comes in to clean up shop. Considering bulking up the EVs a bit as well as specs for extra power although thatll cut Zapdos' Thunder reign short.
--------------------
Backline: Im between Mega Kanga and friend TBA, or Sheer Force Tauros and Mega Venusaur. Leaning towards the former.
Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Inner Focus
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Body Slam/Double Edge/Return
- Sucker Punch
- Seismic Toss/??!
Notes: Does Seismic Toss deal 50HP damage twice because of parental bond? If not, that slot is up for debate as well.
Other considerations: Clefable in the 4th slot running Calm Mind, Moonblast, Moonlight, Seismic Toss/Flamethrower, or Nidoking with the Life Orb.
Craziest idea I had was running Absorb Bulb Zapdos and hitting it with a Surf from Politoed on turn 1, but I haaaate damaging my own team.
Gimme your thoughts guys!
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So I tried and failed many, many frustrating Super Multi runs before realising “Hey, why don’t I just try and copy my most successful Doubles Team”. So that’s what I did. I took the Tapu Koko and Mega Gyarados from my doubles team that got the big streak I’ve posted before; paired up with Anabel, and finally lost after a streak of 138.
Tapu Koko @ Choice Specs
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
Timid Nature
-Thunderbolt
-Dazzling Gleam
-Grass Knot
-HP Ice
Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate/Mold Breaker
EVs: 4HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Waterfall
-Crunch
-Ice Fang
-Protect
I cut and paste these mons straight from my doubles team. The Tapu Koko set is clearly not optimised for Multi battles since I used grass knot for literally just Swampert and never used HP. In hindsight I should’ve added Volt Switch because I switch a lot anyway. I’ll add that if I try this run again.
Anabel’s Team:
Raikou-1 @ Shuca Berry
Inner Focus
-Thunderbolt
-Shadow Ball
-Extrasensory
-Volt Switch
Lucario-3 @ Lucarionite
Adaptability
-Close Combat
-Bullet Punch
-Blaze Kick
-Rock Slide
Raikou is incredibly strong with the electric terrain up and that Shuca berry actually works surprisingly well; allowing it to always tank one Earthquake. Inner Focus is a major plus for Raikou since the opponent AI targets it with Fake Out a ton.
Lucario hits hard too provided that Anabel actually chooses the right move…
Super Multis is naturally Super Frustrating thanks to the AI but this run actually became surprisingly fun after battle 50. I started out targeting 50 for the stamp and after that everything was a bonus. I did not expect to go as far as 138 given that there must have been a close call every 5-10 battles.
Tapu Koko @ Choice Specs
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
Timid Nature
-Thunderbolt
-Dazzling Gleam
-Grass Knot
-HP Ice
Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate/Mold Breaker
EVs: 4HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Waterfall
-Crunch
-Ice Fang
-Protect
I cut and paste these mons straight from my doubles team. The Tapu Koko set is clearly not optimised for Multi battles since I used grass knot for literally just Swampert and never used HP. In hindsight I should’ve added Volt Switch because I switch a lot anyway. I’ll add that if I try this run again.
Anabel’s Team:
Raikou-1 @ Shuca Berry
Inner Focus
-Thunderbolt
-Shadow Ball
-Extrasensory
-Volt Switch
Lucario-3 @ Lucarionite
Adaptability
-Close Combat
-Bullet Punch
-Blaze Kick
-Rock Slide
Raikou is incredibly strong with the electric terrain up and that Shuca berry actually works surprisingly well; allowing it to always tank one Earthquake. Inner Focus is a major plus for Raikou since the opponent AI targets it with Fake Out a ton.
Lucario hits hard too provided that Anabel actually chooses the right move…
So the partner AI is stupid. We all know it. It’s what makes Multis such a challenge. But having had this many battles I can share some of the things I’ve learned and some of the weirder things I’ve seen:
- Good luck trying to predict what move your partner is going to use. I’ve opened against a Pelipper and Venusaur (wish I had the vid but still can’t sign up for Global Link), I assumed Raikou would T-Bolt Pelipper but instead it goes for Extrasensory on Venusaur. Other times when we faced similar opening mons it would T-Bolt the water type.
- This unpredictable behaviour from the partner made me have to play so much more conservatively. If the opponent opens with a weak water type and another mon who only Tapu Koko can KO, I tended to make sure I 100% take out the water mon and just see what Raikou can do against the other. It’s not the optimal move but I felt playing it safe was the best option
- I wish Raikou just never used Volt Switch; Lucario is way too frail to be switching in especially with such sub par decision making
- Lucario will Blaze Kick and/or Rock slide and risk missing stuff it could KO with Close Combat. Very helpful…
- This last point was going to praise the AI! For 137 battles the AI appeared to know what the opponent’s ability was. Raikou would T-Bolt Jolteon or Alolan Marowaks and never hit Volt Absorb or Lightningrod. And then on battle 138 it hits a Jolteon with Volt Absorb so maybe it was all luck :/
Lol it’s Multi battles; everything is a threat with a stupid partner
Super Multis is naturally Super Frustrating thanks to the AI but this run actually became surprisingly fun after battle 50. I started out targeting 50 for the stamp and after that everything was a bonus. I did not expect to go as far as 138 given that there must have been a close call every 5-10 battles.
I would go LO on Zapdos: if the objective is to exploit rainy Thunder, and you have Roost already, best to maximize the exploitation you have on hand and keep the healing. Specs or AV would hamstring you in case you have go long against bulky or stallmons, where Roost would be essential (Pressure would be helpful too, but per your self-imposed restrictions, that's not an option here). Off the top of my head, as an example, if it comes down to Zapdos & Volt Absorb Lanturn4, without Roost you're kind of fucked. You don't seem to be planning on using any particularly fast mons (outside of Tauros), so T-Wave for the fourth move to support the rest of the team.
You will have to deal with things that resist all of Politoed's coverage, and while Zapdos wold have Tentacruel & Toxapex covered, you still have Toxicroak to deal with. I would replace with Focus Blast with Physic to work around this and to offset the potential lack of Flying STAB on Zapdos. Rain Dance for the fourth slot to work around opposing weather and reset rain right away.
Clefable would be a good fourth choice as a bulky catch-all and kinda-counter to TR horseshit, as is Megasaur for the third slot (or any bulky Grass-type to tank certain attacks aimed at Politoed). Curious, you wouldn't happen to be planning to run the Sheer Force Tauros Eisen's got on his trade thread, would you? I won't comment on MegaKhan's viability, as I'm biased due to sheer boredom with her.
Always cool to see pro Breeders from the Wi-Fi subforum come out of the woodwork for battle facility stuff, good luck and good fortune!
dude thanks for all of the great feedback.
as far as the tauros, ive banked over about 45 mons from the VC games. i also abused the 8f glitch to make them all shiny. theyre legality here is still up for debate, but this is about nostalgia dammit XD here is the functioning tauros set, if I were to use one:
Tauros @ Life orb
Sheer Force
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Body Slam
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Rock Slide
to be honest, tauros and mega venusaur seems like way more fun, for two reasons: Venusaur was my first pick on blue version ever, and im also bored of megakang.
heres what ill run with
Zapdos* @ Leftovers
Static
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunder
- Hidden Power Grass
- Roost
- T-Wave
Politoed @ Damp Rock
Drizzle
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Rain Dance
Tauros @ Life orb
Sheer Force
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Body Slam
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Rock Slide
No Giga drain so Venusaur is out. Mega Scizor, Mega Gengar, Clefable.. mega Beedrill???
Static
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunder
- Hidden Power Grass
- Roost
- T-Wave
Politoed @ Damp Rock
Drizzle
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Rain Dance
Tauros @ Life orb
Sheer Force
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Body Slam
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Rock Slide
No Giga drain so Venusaur is out. Mega Scizor, Mega Gengar, Clefable.. mega Beedrill???
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Ugh! Just lost to CríaPokemon Basilio, who uses Arcanine-3 and Ninetales-2 to deadly effect. Even my friend Togedemaru can only do so much when Ninetales is constantly putting my team to sleep and Arcanine uses Sunny Day to interfere with my weather. Ninetales-2 also has Energy Ball, which took out Kabutops. I'm thinking of ditching Kabutops for something sturdier. Pelipper and Togedemaru are the stars, while Ludicolo helps on occasion. Kabutops either wins big or loses big.
(I'm playing around with an Excel spreadsheet to try to match the Smogon chart with the Spanish trainers.)
(I'm playing around with an Excel spreadsheet to try to match the Smogon chart with the Spanish trainers.)
This may already be apparent, and Josh C. already mentioned that Instructed moves target the same enemy hit by the first attack if they're still alive; what I learned which is also helpful to memorize is that, if the first move used KOd the target and Instruct auto-targeted the adjacent enemy, and Instruct activates again before the original attacker is able to take their next turn (such as Oranguru becomes paralyzed, as so occurred for this anecdote) the instructed attack will target the side that had the slain enemy previously, and not the enemy which received the instructed attack, if I'm being clear enough.
This was helpful for me because the original slain target was Azelf, killed by Knock Off, and the instructed Knock Off merely did about 50% to a Regice and removed its Zoom Lens. Regice Thunder Waved Oranguru and Uxie replaced the fallen Azelf. Rather than switch, I felt I had enough control of the situation to let Hariyama just do its business, and Instructed again not particularly caring if Hariyama targeted Regice; instead Knock Off was directed at Uxie for pleasant damage, and Regice was offed the old fashioned way by a fresh CC. These pre-programmed targeting properties of Instruct have been surprisingly useful.
This was helpful for me because the original slain target was Azelf, killed by Knock Off, and the instructed Knock Off merely did about 50% to a Regice and removed its Zoom Lens. Regice Thunder Waved Oranguru and Uxie replaced the fallen Azelf. Rather than switch, I felt I had enough control of the situation to let Hariyama just do its business, and Instructed again not particularly caring if Hariyama targeted Regice; instead Knock Off was directed at Uxie for pleasant damage, and Regice was offed the old fashioned way by a fresh CC. These pre-programmed targeting properties of Instruct have been surprisingly useful.
I have a bit of an odd request.
While managing my various facility streaks, I have also been wandering the halls of the other battle facility threads (again), taking the time to find the older DP Battle Tower Records thread (it should be noted that this is NOT linked to the OP) and very slowly digging through that. In doing so, I've begun to think about what teams of facility 'mons would serve as the best barometer of as many facility teams made by players across time. So, I'm collecting replays of battles against teams that I feel would best fit this description, and then theorymonning them against the teams from the various leaderboards. Since I'm starting the comparisons from Gen IV Frontier leaderboard teams onward, I'm looking for any replays featuring only Pokemon from Gens I-IV. I've collected a few of these myself (mostly in the Maison), but I'm never satisfied with what I get and eventually delete them.
That sort of thing. Will be adding this to the Maison and Subway threads as well.
While managing my various facility streaks, I have also been wandering the halls of the other battle facility threads (again), taking the time to find the older DP Battle Tower Records thread (it should be noted that this is NOT linked to the OP) and very slowly digging through that. In doing so, I've begun to think about what teams of facility 'mons would serve as the best barometer of as many facility teams made by players across time. So, I'm collecting replays of battles against teams that I feel would best fit this description, and then theorymonning them against the teams from the various leaderboards. Since I'm starting the comparisons from Gen IV Frontier leaderboard teams onward, I'm looking for any replays featuring only Pokemon from Gens I-IV. I've collected a few of these myself (mostly in the Maison), but I'm never satisfied with what I get and eventually delete them.
My most recent acquisition in this endeavor would be from my X Maison Triples streak, Bastiodon/Pinsir/Honchkrow/Mismagius/Tyranitar/Porygon2 (Set 4). In order to make this work for non-Triples formats, I would cut a section of this opposing team, based on where they're positioned in the actual battle, and pit them against the leaderboard teams chosen. In this example, Porygon2/Tyranitar/Mismagius were the leads, so things would line up based on that. The backups chosen for a specific format would be chosen either at random or in the order they emerged in the actual battle, in this case Honchkrow/Bastiodon/Pinsir. For instance:
- Porygon2/Tyranitar vs. Chinese Dood's 192-win Hall Doubles dual Metagross team
- Porygon2/Tyranitar/Mismagius (Porygon2 leads) vs. M E E P's 91-win Subway Singles Whimsicott/Shuckle-as-cripplers-Scrafty-as-sweeper team
- The entire team, in the same order as I faced them, vs. lucariomaster2's Maison Triples trophy run Tailwind team, one of the few Maison teams featuring Breloom
- Porygon2/Tyranitar/Mismagius/Pinsir (Porygon2/Tyranitar lead, Pinsir chosen because Pinsir4 was recently mentioned on this thread) vs. Ames' 151-win Tree Doubles team of ugly-ass mons
- Porygon2/Tyranitar vs. Chinese Dood's 192-win Hall Doubles dual Metagross team
- Porygon2/Tyranitar/Mismagius (Porygon2 leads) vs. M E E P's 91-win Subway Singles Whimsicott/Shuckle-as-cripplers-Scrafty-as-sweeper team
- The entire team, in the same order as I faced them, vs. lucariomaster2's Maison Triples trophy run Tailwind team, one of the few Maison teams featuring Breloom
- Porygon2/Tyranitar/Mismagius/Pinsir (Porygon2/Tyranitar lead, Pinsir chosen because Pinsir4 was recently mentioned on this thread) vs. Ames' 151-win Tree Doubles team of ugly-ass mons
That sort of thing. Will be adding this to the Maison and Subway threads as well.
If you hang out in the Tree Discord, you probably know what I've been doing, but I'm going to make a quick post about my ongoing streak of 238 wins in Super Doubles with:
@
, Relaxed, Download
EVs: 252|0|156|0|100|0 / IVs: 31|31|31|31|31|xx
Ice Beam | Return | Recover | Trick Room
(F) @
, Bold, Sturdy
Lv.1 Stats: 12|5|7|5|5|5
Endeavor | Protect | Toxic | Iron Head
(M) @
, Quiet, Pixilate
EVs: 252|0|4|252|0|0 / IVs: 31|0|31|31|31|0
Hyper Voice | Psyshock | Shadow Ball | Swift
(M) @
, Brave, Intimidate
EVs: 252|252|0|0|4|0 / IVs: 31|31|31|xx|31|0
Fake Out | High Jump Kick | Knock Off | Detect
The Aron is the same one that served me so well back in Maison Super Triples, while Sylveon and Scrafty are transfers from ORAS (Sylveon kind of had to be because it needs Tutor moves in order to even function at all, and Scrafty of course is in order to have Knock Off) which makes Porygon2 the only Pokemon I bred specifically for this streak. EV explanations are primarily Laziness™ (Scrafty is a Gen 6 VGC leftover and I really didn't feel like doing advanced EV spreads at the time, while Sylveon I got from a trade and was already EV trained), except on Porygon2 where it had to be Relaxed with 156 Defense EVs in order to guarantee survival of Sawk4's Close Combat. Sylveon has Swift and Scrafty has Fightinium Z in order to deal withBullshit PowderBright Powder and Double Team/Minimize, but even beyond those, Sylveon needs Swift in order to deal with Soundproof (You don't want your Fairy-type to lose to Kommo-o) and Scrafty needs Fightinium Z because High Jump Kick fucking sucks ass. Z-Detect is also an option and I have used it a few times, but I highly doubt it changed the outcome of any match.
Even though I've come this far, this team still has some major issues, namely physical Fighting-types and Mega Kangaskhan. In both cases when these lead, you must switch Aron for Scrafty. In the former case, this gets the Intimidate on them so Porygon2 can take an attack and get Trick Room up. In the latter case, you just can't have Aron facing it down because Parental Bond alone will get two hits on Aron (and if you're facing Kiawe, there may be an Arcanine/Talonflame lead to basically ensure Aron does absolutely nothing). My planned fix for this is having Hitmontop > Scrafty because, in the event of Fighting-type leads, you basically just end up sacking Scrafty, whereas Hitmontop has a pretty solid chance of surviving, but I would want Sucker Punch on Hitmontop, which requires that I go all the way back to Platinum for breeding, and I don't really wanna do that right now.
Some replays!
#44: 4PVG-WWWW-WWW5-3TGQ
#90: VQBG-WWWW-WWW5-5F8S
#156: KUFW-WWWW-WWW5-5F8L
#162: L3PG-WWWW-WWW5-5F8H
#223: WGTG-WWWW-WWW5-5F8B
Will be back with a streak loss video... Whenever this team loses, which I thought for sure would have ended up being battle #223 (watch and you'll see why). Seriously Aron, chill.
This streak is over at 437 wins.
K8RW-WWWW-WWW5-AENH
This is a replay I like to call "Patrick, you might wanna just get that Hitmontop already. You have Platinum, what's your excuse?"
cynthia cynthia cynthia could you fucking stop leading with three support moves spiritomb so you actually become remotely worth scouting
i mean youre better than your seemingly only other alternative colress who rocks electrode and klinklang like they have some untapped potential
i mean youre better than your seemingly only other alternative colress who rocks electrode and klinklang like they have some untapped potential
So, I have an affinity for Mega Pokémon. I think they are a really cool mechanic, even though I know many VGC players feel the opposite. I just like how they can make many different mons the center point of your strategy, and I think over the course of the tree I'm going to try to post a streak to the leaderboard with every mega Pokémon. That is my goal from here on out. This post puts a new mega on there, and retires my M-Metagross.
I'm posting at 7 AM because insomnia struck last night, and it struck hard. This means I sat in bed all night next to my sleeping wife and played matches in the tree. Unfortunately, it also means that I ran virtually no calcs and referenced far fewer sets than usual. Now I'm here to report that both my active streaks (singles and doubles) have come to an end. Wifi is down at our place currently so I'll edit in some proof and videos once AT&T gets back to providing me the service I pay them for. (Edit: added in the team descriptions below on 2/15)
Singles Streak of 168
I'm posting at 7 AM because insomnia struck last night, and it struck hard. This means I sat in bed all night next to my sleeping wife and played matches in the tree. Unfortunately, it also means that I ran virtually no calcs and referenced far fewer sets than usual. Now I'm here to report that both my active streaks (singles and doubles) have come to an end. Wifi is down at our place currently so I'll edit in some proof and videos once AT&T gets back to providing me the service I pay them for. (Edit: added in the team descriptions below on 2/15)
Singles Streak of 168
Doubles Streak of 156
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I'm back to post a streak of 143 in Super Singles. Proof: Y68G-WWWW-WWW5-BBGP
Mimikyu @ Fairium Z
Ability: Disguise
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Play Rough
- Shadow Sneak
- Leech Life
I really like this as a lead. Disguise is an amazing ability that lets me scout and set up a SD, although I have to keep an eye out for Mold Breaker. The AI also seems more than happy to blow its Z-move on the disguise, which is fine with me. Full speed investment lets it outspeed as much as possible. The problems with Play Rough's accuracy have been well documented, but I only try to use it either in low-leverage situations or if I'm desperate, and instead try to chain together the other damaging moves to KO and get some recovery. Having the Z-move available has been a godsend in some situations that I reaaaally need the KO.
Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
Ability: Aerilate (Intimidate pre-mega)
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Return
- Earthquake
- Substitute
I haven't seen anyone run this exact moveset before, with most either forgoing EQ or Sub for Roost. I honestly tried running Roost on it for a while and never got a good opportunity to use it. I found Sub to be far more useful, since with some good prediction you can Sub before a status move and set up. It's also essentially a free victory if you're facing toxic stallers that can't do any damage to it otherwise. I had a great victory where I was down to this and Rotom-Frost-4 where I just subbed until it either used Will-O-Wisp or missed a Blizzard so I had some extra turns to 3HKO it. Aerilate Return and EQ are fantastic coverage and are only resisted by a handful of Flying types and Levitate users. If there's anything I would change about this set it's perhaps the EVs, since I might benefit from some speed investment (see loss below).
Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Toxic
- Recover
I've never run with a Toxic staller before, and after this I'm not sure I ever want to run without one again. This is an extremely useful switch-in against a lot of annoying bulky crap that I wouldn't want anyone else to deal with. Full HP and Defense investment lets it switch into just about anything. Scald + Toxic might seem like they're stepping on each other's feet, but Scald at least lets me status Steel and Poison types. Base 100 SpA means that even when uninvested, it still has some offensive presence and isn't a sitting duck if I don't have time to Toxic stall. I will have to look into Toxapex or Blissey, as they might be able to fill this role better, although at the cost of offense and some different vulnerabilities.
The losing video is at the top of the post. It's against Preschooler Reina (I know, but hey, she meant business) who ran Torterra3, Sceptile4, and Chesnaught3. Plenty of bad luck to be had, but I still could have won this. Torterra needed a crit to KO Mimikyu and it got one. What turned out to be a deciding moment in this fight is Salamence not setting up to +2 in front of Torterra when it could have. Only at +1, the next Pokemon was Mega-Sceptile, one of the only things that could have outsped. Getting the Rock Slide flinch was another crucial moment in the loss. Milotic was able to tank a Leaf Blade and KO with Ice Beam. If the last Pokemon was anything but another Grass type, I would have won, but it was Chesnaught. Milotic cannot win this matchup without a crit or freeze. If I run with this team again, I'll look at the speed tiers and maybe re-EV Salamence, but again, this situation was preventable.
Mimikyu @ Fairium Z
Ability: Disguise
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Play Rough
- Shadow Sneak
- Leech Life
I really like this as a lead. Disguise is an amazing ability that lets me scout and set up a SD, although I have to keep an eye out for Mold Breaker. The AI also seems more than happy to blow its Z-move on the disguise, which is fine with me. Full speed investment lets it outspeed as much as possible. The problems with Play Rough's accuracy have been well documented, but I only try to use it either in low-leverage situations or if I'm desperate, and instead try to chain together the other damaging moves to KO and get some recovery. Having the Z-move available has been a godsend in some situations that I reaaaally need the KO.
Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
Ability: Aerilate (Intimidate pre-mega)
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Return
- Earthquake
- Substitute
I haven't seen anyone run this exact moveset before, with most either forgoing EQ or Sub for Roost. I honestly tried running Roost on it for a while and never got a good opportunity to use it. I found Sub to be far more useful, since with some good prediction you can Sub before a status move and set up. It's also essentially a free victory if you're facing toxic stallers that can't do any damage to it otherwise. I had a great victory where I was down to this and Rotom-Frost-4 where I just subbed until it either used Will-O-Wisp or missed a Blizzard so I had some extra turns to 3HKO it. Aerilate Return and EQ are fantastic coverage and are only resisted by a handful of Flying types and Levitate users. If there's anything I would change about this set it's perhaps the EVs, since I might benefit from some speed investment (see loss below).
Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Toxic
- Recover
I've never run with a Toxic staller before, and after this I'm not sure I ever want to run without one again. This is an extremely useful switch-in against a lot of annoying bulky crap that I wouldn't want anyone else to deal with. Full HP and Defense investment lets it switch into just about anything. Scald + Toxic might seem like they're stepping on each other's feet, but Scald at least lets me status Steel and Poison types. Base 100 SpA means that even when uninvested, it still has some offensive presence and isn't a sitting duck if I don't have time to Toxic stall. I will have to look into Toxapex or Blissey, as they might be able to fill this role better, although at the cost of offense and some different vulnerabilities.
The losing video is at the top of the post. It's against Preschooler Reina (I know, but hey, she meant business) who ran Torterra3, Sceptile4, and Chesnaught3. Plenty of bad luck to be had, but I still could have won this. Torterra needed a crit to KO Mimikyu and it got one. What turned out to be a deciding moment in this fight is Salamence not setting up to +2 in front of Torterra when it could have. Only at +1, the next Pokemon was Mega-Sceptile, one of the only things that could have outsped. Getting the Rock Slide flinch was another crucial moment in the loss. Milotic was able to tank a Leaf Blade and KO with Ice Beam. If the last Pokemon was anything but another Grass type, I would have won, but it was Chesnaught. Milotic cannot win this matchup without a crit or freeze. If I run with this team again, I'll look at the speed tiers and maybe re-EV Salamence, but again, this situation was preventable.
I'm sitting at 200 wins (ongoing) with my old Maison team of Dragonite / Chansey / Mega Slowbro. Still works reasonably well. But with more threatening Megas, and fewer trainers using just one set for a given Pokemon species, Dragonite gets fewer chances to safely lead with a Dragon Dance than it did in the Maison. On top of this, because of Dragonite's rather heavy reliance on Multiscale, once it is switched out, it's usually pretty hard to switch it back into an attack, especially with a non-Roost set. This is a pity, since the ability to switch around all three Pokemon until a suitable set up opportunity can be seized is one of the strengths of Mega Salamence / Chansey / Aegislash.
Accordingly, I'm wondering about a better lead option. Currently very tempted by Gliscor. Protect allows for scouting which set I'm up against, and immunities to Electric- and Ground-type attacks can help set up lots of switch stalling opportunities, on top of Gliscor's unbelievable ability to solo-stall. While the AI switching out when stalled out of damaging moves makes things a bit harder, I still think Gliscor will be able to create a decent number of set up opportunities for its teammates.
While Careful seems to be the standard choice, with Chansey's incredible special bulk and Mega Slowbro's wonderful physical defense already leaving me in a strong defensive position, I'm leaning towards trying Jolly instead. Fast Chansey turned out to be a big success for me last gen, so why not see if fast Gliscor can keep up?
Since I've done no serious theorymoning at all on this yet, I'm sure I'm missing something here. Any obvious holes?
Also, a few random parting observations. First, thank goodness the AI still doesn't seem to properly value the damage on multi-hit moves. Otherwise, Mega Heracross would be a real threat. Second, it certainly feels like there are a lot more mixed sets this time around, which can be irksome. Tyranitar2, for example, can be very scary. And third, I just know I'm going to lose a streak to Dugtrio2 at some point. That much speed + Fissure is no fun. With both it and Snorlax4 lurking, carrying a flying-type or Levitator seems especially useful this generation.
I'll get the leaderboard up to date soon, so keep those streaks coming! Best of luck, all!
Accordingly, I'm wondering about a better lead option. Currently very tempted by Gliscor. Protect allows for scouting which set I'm up against, and immunities to Electric- and Ground-type attacks can help set up lots of switch stalling opportunities, on top of Gliscor's unbelievable ability to solo-stall. While the AI switching out when stalled out of damaging moves makes things a bit harder, I still think Gliscor will be able to create a decent number of set up opportunities for its teammates.
While Careful seems to be the standard choice, with Chansey's incredible special bulk and Mega Slowbro's wonderful physical defense already leaving me in a strong defensive position, I'm leaning towards trying Jolly instead. Fast Chansey turned out to be a big success for me last gen, so why not see if fast Gliscor can keep up?
Since I've done no serious theorymoning at all on this yet, I'm sure I'm missing something here. Any obvious holes?
Also, a few random parting observations. First, thank goodness the AI still doesn't seem to properly value the damage on multi-hit moves. Otherwise, Mega Heracross would be a real threat. Second, it certainly feels like there are a lot more mixed sets this time around, which can be irksome. Tyranitar2, for example, can be very scary. And third, I just know I'm going to lose a streak to Dugtrio2 at some point. That much speed + Fissure is no fun. With both it and Snorlax4 lurking, carrying a flying-type or Levitator seems especially useful this generation.
I'll get the leaderboard up to date soon, so keep those streaks coming! Best of luck, all!
I have had my leads murdered by both of them, so I've learned the hard way about whom to aggress with Fake Out from now on. Thankfully Snorlax4 is slower than Hariyama and can be OHKOd safely without TR in play.
For that matter, I've gotten burned pretty hard by the gamble from Dazzling/Queenly Majesty. Not so much because of the users themselves but the potential partners, who are also protected from priority. I had a battle go very badly due to skipping on FO because of a Bruxish present; I should have taken the risk, because it got Oranguru Spored by a Breloom; I came to learn that Bruxish did not have Dazzling but Strong Jaw.
I'm kind of happy that seemingly many trainers have really limited rosters, because those slimmer rosters usually have multiple megas on them, and in the case of things like Metagross their threat is greatly diminished when the AI already used their allotted evo. I also have beaten more unevolved Mawile 3/4s than megas.
I'm looking for some advice over which three of my 10 EV trained pokemon would be best for Battle Tree Super Singles. I know this isn't standard format for posting things here, but I made a spreadsheet of their stats when adjusted to level 50 by the tree, and their movesets etc:
http://i.imgur.com/ywHmSDj.png
All of them have fairly standard EV spreads and natures and all except Pheromosa, Ash Greninja, Kartana and Tapu Koko have perfect or 5 IVs (the previously mentioned three have, at least, good enough ones and natures). I gave Dragonite enough speed EVs to have 241 at level 100 and put the remainder in HP. I think it's something like 180 speed EVs (it's adamant).
Also open to suggestions for movesets, etc. I've been thinking of surf instead of scald on Greninja, I notice I have been missing a few KOs by a small amount. Also considering LO instead of Expert Belt on Greninja, as I did in Omega Ruby. My Dragonite runs DD/Outrage/Iron Head/Fire Punch, I'm thinking maybe EQ instead of Fire Punch. I don't want to delete Iron Head because I can't get it back (it's a gen 6 tutor move). Protean Greninja, Dragonite, and Kangaskhan got me to nearly 300 in Omega Ruby, but I'm not sure if Kangaskhan is still good enough with its nerf, and maybe my Battle Bond Greninja is better, even though it has +speed - spdef instead of Timid.
Currently I have been going with Dragonite (lead), Ash Greninja, and shuffling around the last one between Mega Kangaskhan, Kartana, Koko, and Pheromosa, and it's hard to choose.
In particular I was wondering if there is any good use of a z-move I could get with my team. It feels like kind of a waste to completely ignore them, but I can't think of a good use. I was thinking maybe Z-surf/dark pulse on my Ash-Greninja as a nuke to help guarantee a battle bond, but ehhh... I was also considering Z-Fly on Dragonite, but I don't want to forgo my lum berry.
I'm sure some of the things on that sheet are not useful for the tree at all (Nidoking, Archeops... I just trained them for fun), but I thought I'd include them anyway. Thanks for reading.
http://i.imgur.com/ywHmSDj.png
All of them have fairly standard EV spreads and natures and all except Pheromosa, Ash Greninja, Kartana and Tapu Koko have perfect or 5 IVs (the previously mentioned three have, at least, good enough ones and natures). I gave Dragonite enough speed EVs to have 241 at level 100 and put the remainder in HP. I think it's something like 180 speed EVs (it's adamant).
Also open to suggestions for movesets, etc. I've been thinking of surf instead of scald on Greninja, I notice I have been missing a few KOs by a small amount. Also considering LO instead of Expert Belt on Greninja, as I did in Omega Ruby. My Dragonite runs DD/Outrage/Iron Head/Fire Punch, I'm thinking maybe EQ instead of Fire Punch. I don't want to delete Iron Head because I can't get it back (it's a gen 6 tutor move). Protean Greninja, Dragonite, and Kangaskhan got me to nearly 300 in Omega Ruby, but I'm not sure if Kangaskhan is still good enough with its nerf, and maybe my Battle Bond Greninja is better, even though it has +speed - spdef instead of Timid.
Currently I have been going with Dragonite (lead), Ash Greninja, and shuffling around the last one between Mega Kangaskhan, Kartana, Koko, and Pheromosa, and it's hard to choose.
In particular I was wondering if there is any good use of a z-move I could get with my team. It feels like kind of a waste to completely ignore them, but I can't think of a good use. I was thinking maybe Z-surf/dark pulse on my Ash-Greninja as a nuke to help guarantee a battle bond, but ehhh... I was also considering Z-Fly on Dragonite, but I don't want to forgo my lum berry.
I'm sure some of the things on that sheet are not useful for the tree at all (Nidoking, Archeops... I just trained them for fun), but I thought I'd include them anyway. Thanks for reading.
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Hello again! I'm trying out a team of Mega Charizard Y, Venusaur, Manectric, and Aegislash in Super Doubles right now. Goodra was in slot #4, but after encountering the dreaded Choice Scarf Aerodactyl, I decided to swap it out for Wide Guard Aegislash in case I see it again. Manectric is there for a Lightning Rod Pokemon that has a Fire attack to benefit from Drought. The moveset spreadsheet is helping a lot, and I'm keeping my own Excel sheet to account for the different trainer names in Spanish. I don't think there's an "Empresario Jesús" in the English version, for one example. :p
Having to double Protect on the first turn to safely Mega Evolve Charizard and prevent Venusaur from being outsped before Chlorophyll takes effect helps with scouting quite a bit.
Having to double Protect on the first turn to safely Mega Evolve Charizard and prevent Venusaur from being outsped before Chlorophyll takes effect helps with scouting quite a bit.
This is working for me so far. I haven't lost yet and am at 500 in a row (disclaimer: did the first 30ish battles with a generic fast team of Tapu Lele/Mega Salamence/Aegislash to get past most of the set 1/2 stuff).
Battle 500: W56W-WWWW-WWW5-CXSF (Guzma brings his 3 Ice resists but nothing too exciting)
Battle 489: MF8W-WWWW-WWW5-C24C (playing it safe against Infiltrator Chandelure; Knock Off instead of Thief would make this even easier/faster)
Battle 209: HTQG-WWWW-WWW5-8BEX (Mimikyu saves Durant from Drampa's QC Fire Blast)
Battle 94: X29G-WWWW-WWW5-8BAG (Mimikyu comes in following Prankster Taunt)
The most surprising thing about the team so far is how it gets through battles relatively quickly. If Durant is mostly unharmed after Entrainment I'm comfortable with attacking if the Moody boosts are decent after 10-15 turns of setting up since I have two 'big boy' Pokemon in reserve (rather than level 1 bait) to gang up on the last opposing mon if need be. I haven't felt pressed for Sub/Protect PP when setting up with Glalie despite not having additional debuffs such as item removal or accuracy drops from Flash. Some of that is from Glalie's defenses (once the appropriate defense is at +3 it's going to take STAB + super effective to break a Sub in one hit, plus throw in possible evasion and Taunt to stop the opponent from boosting) and some of that is through AI manipulation (for example, letting Taunt run out so you can use Sub before a predicted status move and then use Protect 2 turns later can buy a handful of boosts before the next time the opponent even has a chance to try to break Glalie's Sub again), but mostly it's because checking the stat stages can tell me I don't need to be Sub/Protect stalling any longer.
So why Glalie over Drapion? As I said before, the AI switching out when out of Choiced move PP (or Exploding) can create bad matchups for Drapion that Glalie can continue passively boosting through. While it is possible to knock a choice item off, it 1) carries the unfortunate side effect of possibly KOing the opponent that may have already taken out Durant and 2) makes it more likely that the opponent will switch to a Dark resist - good luck with a +6 Special Attack, +4 Accuracy Drapion against Mega Mawile or DD Tyranitar.
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Good stuff, I watched the 489 replay and I have a couple questions:
1. Generally how much do you set up with Moody? What stat boosts do you wait for before going in? I couldn't see stats in the replay, so I don't know what you were at when you started attacking.
2. When you switched out on that Chandelure, is the risk of a Heat Wave hitting and critting worth worrying about? It seems like you would one or two hit Chandelure, and I'm assuming you had boosts to outspeed as well as some evasion boosts, so is it generally just best to play excessively safe once you get those good streaks going?
3. Is Charm worth fitting into Mimikyu's moveset to beat physical attackers? Or are there specific reasons for Confide over Charm?
1. Generally how much do you set up with Moody? What stat boosts do you wait for before going in? I couldn't see stats in the replay, so I don't know what you were at when you started attacking.
2. When you switched out on that Chandelure, is the risk of a Heat Wave hitting and critting worth worrying about? It seems like you would one or two hit Chandelure, and I'm assuming you had boosts to outspeed as well as some evasion boosts, so is it generally just best to play excessively safe once you get those good streaks going?
3. Is Charm worth fitting into Mimikyu's moveset to beat physical attackers? Or are there specific reasons for Confide over Charm?